Why most Americans live worse than Medieval serfs toiling for a king.

The word medieval is often treated as synonymous with filth, lawlessness  and brutality. In particular the recent actions of ISIS and their  treatment of prisoners have been called 'medieval’ by journalists,  commentators and bloggers alike. But why do we do this, and is it fair? 

-History Today

While many of us are grateful for the 40-hour work week, Medieval peasants worked far less than even that.

When professor Juliet Schor released her book, The Overworked American: The Unexpected Decline of Leisure, the average American was shocked. According to her research, they were working more days and taking fewer vacation days than a medieval peasant.

Americans are working harder, and being rewarded less, than a Medieval serf.

Now, her scholarly presentation was correct. American life has migrated far, far away from what it was like during Medieval times. There are good and bad things about this. But we need to put things into perspective. Because most Americans have a very warped idea of what life was like in the past.

American Misconceptions…

Americans mistakenly believe that Medieval life was far, far different than the lives we live today. I counter the opposite. Aside from technology and medicine, socially and economically, we are identical.

Let’s get rid of some misconceptions…

Typical Misconception 1. Peasants were a single class of people who were more or less equal to one another.

It's easy to think that people in the Middle Ages were easily divided  into very broad classes: royals, nobles, knights, clergy, and toiling  peasants at the very bottom. But just because you didn't have "king,"  "lord," "sir," "father," or "brother" (or their female analogs) in front  of your name doesn't mean you weren't concerned with your own social  standing. There are vast classes of people whom, today, we might  generally refer to as "peasants," but there were actually various  classes of people within that broad category.
   
Mortimer points out that, in 14th-century England, for example, you  have your villeins, people bonded to a particular lord's land. Villeins  were not considered free folk, and they could be sold with the lord's  land. And free folk were of a variety of social and economic classes. A  freeholder, for example, might become successful enough to rent a lord's  manor, essentially acting as a lord himself. And, in a village, a few  families might hold the majority of the political power, supplying most  of the local officers. We may tend to think of these people as  "peasants," but they had much more complicated ways of thinking of  themselves, with all the class anxiety that goes with that. 

Much like today. American society is stratified. America hardly has a middle class. Most of the wealth is concentrated in the hands of a few elite. The rest of us fight against each other for the “table scraps” thrown to the side by “trickle down economics”.

Misconception 2. Inns were public houses with big common halls below and rooms above.
   
There are few images as firmly rooted in pseudo-Medieval fantasy as  the tavern inn. You and your party enjoy a few flagons of ale in the  main room, hear all the local gossip, then go up to your private rented  chamber where you'd sleep (alone or with a lover) on a lumpy mattress.
   
That image isn't wholly fiction, but the truth is a bit more  complicated — not to mention interesting. In Medieval England, if you  combined a city inn with an alehouse, you'd probably get something  resembling that fantasy inn. There were inns where you could rent a bed  (or, more likely, a space in a bed), and these inns did have halls for  eating and drinking. But these were not public houses; innkeepers were  generally permitted to serve food and drink only to their guests. And,  Mortimer points out, you would likely find a single room with several  beds, beds that could fit up to three people. It was only in the most  upscale inns that you'd find chambers with just one or two beds.
   
There were establishments for drinking in these cities as well:  taverns for wine and alehouses for ale. Of the two, alehouses were the  rowdier establishments, more likely to function as your Medieval Mos  Eisley. But ale and cider were often made at home as well; a husband  might expect his wife to be skilled in brewing. The Gieses note in Life in a Medieval Village  that a tavern in an English village was often someone's home. Once your  neighbor opened up a fresh batch of ale, you might go to their house,  pay a few pennies, and sit and drink with your fellow villagers.
   
There are other options for accommodations as well. Travelers could  expect the hospitality of people of equal or lesser social class,  enjoying their food and beds in exchange for tales from the road and a  tip. (Mortimer says that, if you were lucky enough to stay with a  14-century merchant, the digs were much nicer than any inn.) Or you  might go to a hospital, which was not just for healing, but also for  hospitality. 

Like America today, there are all sorts of accommodation. Is the modern housing APPs any different from the medieval arrangement? It’s just a modern equivalent.

Misconception 3. You would never see a woman engaged in a trade such as armorer or merchant.
   
Certainly, some fantasy stories will cast women in equal (or  relatively equal) positions to men, carrying out the same sorts of  trades that men might carry out. But in many fictional stories, a woman  who makes armor or sells good would seem out of place — although this  does not universally reflect Medieval reality. In England, a widow could  take up the trade of her dead husband — and Mortimer specifically cites  tailor, armorer, and merchant as trades open to widows. Some female  merchants were actually quite successful, managing international trading  ventures with impressive capital.
  
Women engaged in criminal activity as well, including banditry. Many  criminal gangs in Medieval England consisted of families, including  wives with their husbands and sisters with their brothers.

Men and women shared and swapped roles in the past, much we do today. There is nothing new or progressive about that.

Misconception 4. People had horrible table manners, throwing bones and scraps on the floor.
   
Sorry, even in the Middle Ages, members of polite society, from kings  to villeins, followed certain etiquette, and that etiquette involved  good table manners. In fact, depending on when and where and with whom  you were eating, you might have to follow very strict procedures for  eating and drinking. Here's a tip: If a lord passes you his cup at the  dinner table, it's a sign of his favor. Accept it, backwash and all, and  pass it back to him after you've had a sip. 

Manners are part of the human condition. While they might vary from society to society, manners follow us everywhere.

Misconception 5. People distrusted all forms of magic and witches were frequently burned. 
   
In some fantasy stories, magic is readily accepted by everyone as a  fact of life. In others, magic is treated with suspicion at best or as  blasphemy at worst. You might even hear the Biblical edict, "Thou shalt  not suffer a witch to live."
  
But not  all claims of magic in the Middle Ages were treated as heresy. In her  essay "Witches and the Myth of the Medieval 'Burning Time,'" from Misconceptions About the Middle Ages,  Anita Obermeier tells us that during the 10th century, the Catholic  Church wasn't interested in trying witches for heresy; it was more  interested in eradicating heretical superstitions about "night-flying  creatures."
   
And in 14th-century  England, you might consult a magician or a witch for some minor  "magical" task, such as finding a lost object. In Medieval England, at  least, magic without any heretical components was tolerated. Eventually,  the late 15th century would give rise to the Spanish Inquisition, and  we do see witches hunted down.
  
Witch  burnings weren't unheard of in the Middle Ages, but they weren't common,  either. Obermeier explains that, in the 11th century, sorcery was  treated as a secular crime, but the church would issue several  reprimands before it would resort to burning. She puts the first burning  for heresy at 1022 in Orleans and the second at 1028 in Monforte. It's  rare in the 11th and 12th centuries, but becomes a more common  punishment in the 13th century for relapsed heretics. However, it  depends where you are. In the 14th century, you probably won't be burned  as a witch in England, but you may very well get the stake in Ireland. 

Much like today. You might have trouble finding a practitioner of the Black Arts in the Southern American states, but you won’t have problems in New Orleans. Or Los Angles. Or Detroit. Or New York. Or Baltimore.

Misconception 6. Men's clothing was always practical and functional. 

Yes, Medieval people of various classes  were interested in fashion, and sometimes fashion — particularly men's  fashion — got pretty absurd. Early clothing is more functional, but  during the 14th century, men's fashions in England were both  body-bearing and rather experimental. Corsets and garters were common  for men, and increasingly, popular fashions encouraged men to show off  the shape of their hips and legs. Some aristocratic men wore gowns with  sleeves so long they were in danger of tripping on the cuffs. It became  fashionable to wear shoes with extraordinarily long toes — one such  shoe, imported from Bohemia, had twenty-inch toes that needed to be tied  to a man's garters. There was even a fad of wearing one's mantle so  that the head went through the arm hole rather than the head hole, with  the sleeves functioning as a voluminous collar.
  
It's also important to note that fashions would trickle down from  royalty, through the aristocracy, and down to the common folk. In the  seasons after a fashion appeared among the nobility, a less expensive  version would appear among those of lesser stations. In fact, sumptuary  laws were passed in London to prevent people from dressing above their  stations. For example, a common woman in 1330s London was not permitted  to line her hood with anything but lambskin or rabbit fur, or risk  losing her hood. 

Much like today. The fashions might change, but the importance of having them is a time honored standard.

Misconception 7. Servants were all low-class people.
   
Actually, if you were a high-ranking individual, chances are that you  had high-ranking servants. A lord might send his son to serve in another  lord's manor — perhaps that of his wife's brother. The son would  receive no income, but would still be treated as the son of a lord. A  lord's steward might actually be a lord himself. Your status in society  isn't just based on whether or not you were a servant, but also your  familial status, whom you served, and what your particular job was.
   
Something you might not expect about servants in English households in  the late Middle Ages: they were overwhelmingly male. Mortimer points to  the earl of Devon's household, which had 135 members, but only three  women. With the exception of a washerwoman (who didn't live in the  household), the staffers were all men, even in households headed by  women. 

Most Americans today fall in the below-middle class; the serf and slave classes. We do not have servants.

However, the wealthy do. If you were to poll the wealthy Democrat politicians in America today, you would discover that their contemporaneous servants would indeed fit the Medieval model.

Misconception 8. Medicine was based on pure superstition.
  
Admittedly, if you're looking outside of Game of Thrones,  a lot of healing in fantasy novels is just plain magical. You've got  your cleric class who gets their healing from the gods, and otherwise  you might have someone on hand who can dress a wound or make a poultice.
  
And yes, a lot  of Medieval medicine was based on what we would consider today mystical  bunk. A great deal of diagnosis involved astrology and humoral theory.  Blood letting was a respected method of treatment, and many of the  curatives were not only useless — they were downright dangerous. And  while there were medical colleges, extraordinarily few physicians were  able to attend.
  
Still, some aspects  of Medieval medicine were logical even by modern standards. Wrapping  smallpox in scarlet cloth, treating gout with colchicum, using camomile  oil for an earache — these were all effective treatments. And while the  notion of a barber-surgeon is a horrifying one to many of us, some of  those surgeons were actually quite talented. John of Arderne employed  anesthetics in his practice, and many surgeons were skilled in couching  cataracts, sewing abscesses, and setting bones. 

Not so different from today. While American “big pharma” and high technology has saturated American culture, practitioners of chiropractic techniques, acupuncture, herbal medicine and Chinese traditional medicine abound.

Misconception 9. The most powerful military force consisted of armored knights riding into battle.
  
James G. Patterson, in his essay "The Myth of the Mounted Knight" from Misconceptions About the Middle Ages,  explains that while the image of the mounted knight might have been a  popular one during Medieval times, it didn't match the reality of  warfare. Armored cavalry, he explains, can be incredibly useful — even  devastating — against untrained revolutionaries, but they were far less  useful against a trained foreign infantry. Rather, ground forces,  including knights on foot who frequently served as officers, were  invaluable in battle. Even during the Crusades, when the image of the  mounted knight seemed synonymous with glory in battle, most the actual  battles involved sieges.
  
In the 14th  century, English warfare focused increasingly on archery. In fact,  Edward III prohibited football in 1331 and then again in 1363 in part  because people were spending too much time playing football and not  enough time practicing their archery. The English archers were able to  repel many a French cavalry force. 

Aside from technological differences, force mixtures, arrays and alignments remain the same.

Misconception 10. Only men's sexual pleasure was important.
   
A common belief during the Middle Ages was that women were more  lustful than men. A lot more lustful, in fact. Rape was a crime in 14th  century Medieval England, but not between spouses. A wife could not  legally refuse her husband's advances, but a husband could not refuse  his wife's advances either. The popular belief was that women were  always longing for sex, and that it was bad for their health not to have  intercourse regularly. A woman's orgasm was also important; another  common belief was that a woman could not conceive without an orgasm.  (Unfortunately, this also made rape impossible to prosecute if the  victim became pregnant; Medieval English scholars believed women's  bodies had a way of, in the modern parlance, shutting things down.)
   
So what was an unmarried woman to do? Well, if she couldn't find a  husband, the English physician John of Gaddesden recommended that she  find a midwife who could get the job done manually. 

Men and women both have sexual needs that must be met.

As I have stated, the point must be made clear that aside from differences in technology and culture, mankind has not really matured away from what it was one thousand years ago.

Americans, aside from technology advancements, live within the same kind of ruler – serf arrangement that existed during Medieval times.

Thus, subtracting those influences, we can compare life between the two times. We can compare lifestyle, leisure and freedom. However, when we take a look with these new eyes of ours, we become astounded.

Americans are working more days and taking fewer vacation days than a medieval peasant.

The numbers.

Unfortunately, the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ latest available data only supports this notion. Indeed, the average annual hours worked by Americans in 2017 reached 1,780, whereas an adult male peasant in the United Kingdom worked an average of 1,620.

Let’s take a closer look at why we work 160 hours more than the average serf.

Productivity vs. Annual hours of work.
Productivity vs. Annual hours of work.

Because the need for agricultural labor in the Middle Ages was season-dependent, the average peasant had about eight weeks to half the year off.

Plus, the Church knew the opportunity to rest would keep workers happy and orderly, so they ordered frequent mandatory holidays.

Farm life painted by Norman Rockwell.
Farm life painted by Norman Rockwell.

The 70 to 80-hour work week for the average 19th-century laborer in the industrial revolution was actually a deviation from the ways of their medieval predecessors. Arguing for an eight-hour workday was not so much a push for the progressive, but a return to the ways of yore.

Indeed, medieval peasants enjoyed a less rigid workday.

Meals weren’t rushed and the afternoon might call for a nap.

“The tempo of life was slow, even leisurely; the pace of work relaxed,” said Schor. “Our ancestors may not have been rich, but they had an abundance of leisure.”

Feeding time on the farm.
Feeding time.

Work hours weren’t as rigid back then due to a variety of factors including season-dependent tasks.

A 16th-century Bishop wrote of the average workday of his time…

“The  labouring man will take his rest in the morning; a good piece of the day  is spent afore he come at his work; then he must have his breakfast…

At  noon he must have his sleeping time, 

then his bever in the afternoon,  which spendeth a great part of the day; 

and when his hour cometh at  night, at the first stroke of the clock he casteth down his tools,  leaveth his work, in what need or case soever the work standeth.” 

While we may be accustomed to images of medieval peasants toiling away from dawn until dusk and be convinced from this that we have it better than they ever did — a 13th-century laborer could have up to 25 weeks off per year.

For reference, the average American worker has 16 days of vacation per year.

Life was slower, the pace was slower. People were more content.
Life was slower, the pace was slower. People were more content.

“Consider a typical working day in the medieval period,” said Schor. “It stretched from dawn to dusk (sixteen hours in summer and eight in winter), but, as Bishop Pilkington has noted, work was intermittent…

… called to halt for breakfast, lunch, the customary afternoon nap, and dinner. Depending on time and place, there were also mid-morning and mid-afternoon refreshment breaks.”

A milk maid and her cows.
A milk maid and her cows.

Additionally, the medieval calendar was also one of many official Church-going holidays which were always considered mandatory. In total, leisure time in medieval England took up probably about one-third of the year.

The U.S. is the only advanced country with no national vacation policy.

Vacation days around the world by employee contract.
Vacation days around the world by employee contract.

But since the Reagan era, the security of long-term employment has steadily declined.

Our generation has become accustomed to hopping from job to job and adding a part-time gig on top as to combat the fears of a fluctuation economy. With a Great Recession ingrained in our psyche, vacations seem like a luxury.

The United States is the only first-world country without a national vacation policy, after all. Millions work on public holidays and don’t use their vacation days for fear of retribution. With a horrific lack of standardized, easily accessible healthcare — sick days and vacation days often blend together.

According to the World Economic Forum, the Greeks have the longest work week in the European Union (EU). Granted, they’ve struggled with a terrible economy in recent years which could explain the additional effort.

The simple life.
The simple life.

However, Germany is second to last in the EU when it comes to annual hours worked and has a generous work model in place. It is, nonetheless, an economic behemoth. An average German works 1,363 hours per year which goes to show that vacation days might actually improve a nation’s GDP.

The Peasant Wedding  by  Pieter Brueghel the Elder, 1567 or 1568. The Medieval calendar set  aside vacations for saints’ days, weddings, church holidays, rest days,  and more.
The Peasant Wedding by Pieter Brueghel the Elder, 1567 or 1568. The Medieval calendar set aside vacations for saints’ days, weddings, church holidays, rest days, and more.

Indeed, according to the U.S. National Library of Medicine, which conducted a nine-year experiment, the frequency of annual vacations is directly “associated with a reduced risk of all-cause mortality” and concluded that “vacationing may be good for your health.”

Paid vacations and paid holidays in different nations.
Paid vacations and paid holidays in different nations.

Unfortunately, it seems as though the United States Congress is getting more vacation days than the average American citizen. According to Thought Co., its members make a base salary of $174,000 and work fewer than half of the days in a year — and this is perhaps not even to mention this years shut down.

Congressmen, and Senators in Washington DC live lavish lifestyles and lord over Americans like Kings over peasants.
Congressmen, and Senators in Washington DC live lavish lifestyles and lord over Americans like Kings over peasants.

Now…

You would think that any “red blooded” American man would say “take this job and shove it” to their employer for not giving them vacation and sick time, and having to wait a full one year to take it. But that never happens.

American’s don’t do that.

Because…

Most Americans Are Up To Their Eyeballs In Debt

In the United States, it has been common to pay via credit card for almost anything, but the use of credit cards hasn’t been as widely accepted in other places around the world.

A decade ago, you couldn’t pay for much in Germany with them, and the same is true of many European and Asian nations, though they are growing in popularity.

For Americans, credit and debt are simply a way of life.

A large part of American culture is capitalist consumer-driven markets, which means, Americans like to buy stuff, and they often do so via some form of credit. Why wait to buy a new computer when you can pay it off with some interest over the next five years?

Shepherdess watching over her flock.
Shepherdess watching over her flock.

The main reason it’s not a great idea has to do with an accumulation of debt.

Americans buy one thing, then another, and another, and before they know what they’ve done, they owe an average of $38,000 in debt, and the trend is showing an increase.

$38K is already a huge number for most people, but if you add it up, it shows just how deep the nation is in debt.

Americans cannot get the lifestyle they deserve because they are chained to dept, like indentured  serfs working on a plantation.
Americans cannot get the lifestyle they deserve because they are chained to dept, like indentured serfs working on a plantation.

When you take that average and factor in the population and demographic information, the nation as a whole owes $4,000,000,000,000 in all forms of consumer debt.

That number includes credit card debt, which has an average interest rate of 17.41%. The bottom line: Americans are drowning in debt, and the problem is worsening.

Americans cannot get the lifestyle they deserve because they are chained to dept, like indentured serfs working on a plantation.

Being indentured slaves is problematic. It creates a situation whereas you have a stratification of society.

  • Indentured slaves work for the ruling class.
  • Ruling class lives a life of ease and comfort.
  • If you do not fit into either of those two classes, you become homeless.

Thus, in America…

Homelessness And Wealth Distribution Is A Serious Problem

Homelessness is a problem all over the world, and while you can find it in developed nations like the UK and France, the United States has far more in contrast to other developed Western nations – with the exception of the other oligarchy; the UK.

Global homelessness.
Selected nations and their homelessness compared.

As of 2018, about 0.17% of the American population was living on the streets, and while that doesn’t seem like a lot, it amounts to more than 553,000 people.

The states with the most homeless people are California, New York, Florida, Washington, Oregon, and Texas; coincidentally, most of these states have higher amounts of population density, but they also have some of the wealthiest people in the country.

Homeless in the United States.
Homeless in the United States.

Homelessness is a serious problem, and fortunately, there are people and organizations working to help provide temporary and permanent housing to displaced Americans.

The most obvious question is if the United States is the wealthiest nation in the world, why are so many people homeless?

The complicated economics of the States doesn’t offer a simple answer, but there is an obvious disparity between the wealthiest people and the folks who have nothing.

Because the number of Americans who are insanely wealthy remains low, the top 1% of wealthy Americans hold 40% of the total national wealth.

America is stratified into the Ruler class (Kings) and serfs. Those that do not fit within those two classes are social outcasts and homeless.

Now, all of this high concentration of wealth into the hand of a few means that the rest of the people make do with less. Less money is available for repair. Less money is available for healthcare. Less money is available for maintenance, and less money is available for new things.

You can this how the money disappears when you witness the absence of proper resource allocation…

The United States Has A Crumbling Infrastructure

Contemporaneous American bridge.
Contemporaneous American bridge.

If it took a long time for this page to load and get to the article, you may be somewhere in the United States.

Despite being the country chiefly responsible for inventing what became the Internet, the US languishes behind many other nations in terms of download speeds.

The United States ranks 38th out of 141 nations on the Speed-test Global Index. The country falls just below Portugal and sits on top of Spain. The main reason the US has poor Internet is due to the cost of overhauling the telecommunications infrastructure, but that’s not the only part of American infrastructure that’s lacking; the roads, bridges, dams, water, and power systems are all falling apart, and nobody wants to pay to have them fixed.

Countries with the fastest internet.
Countries with the fastest internet.

The politicians talk about fixing infrastructure all the time, but nothing has come out of it.

Meanwhile, 47,000 bridges are in serious need of repair with the possibility of a catastrophic failure should a rather large pigeon fire some droppings on the wrong platform.

HK-China bridge. The Chinese have invested heavily on their infrastructure.
HK-China bridge. The Chinese have invested heavily on their infrastructure.

Roads are also a serious problem, and the effect is noticeable if you drive down any major highway in the United States. The Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation determined that 42,000 road deaths were the result of potholes and other road maintenance issues.

A lack of healthy infrastructure is a “sure fire” sign of a ruler-serf government.

What other indicators are there?

Well, the ruler-serf arrangement is not stable – historically speaking. So efforts are made to control the bulk of the population using laws, rules and strong policing efforts. Laws are made to prevent the people from overthrowing the government. Not to improve the lives of the people.

The way that you can judge the degree of ruler-serf control is…

…is to look at the size of the prison / jail / parole population.

Thus…

The US Has The Largest Prison Population In The World

Americans have the greatest chance of being incarcerated than anyone else in the entire world.
Americans have the greatest chance of being incarcerated than anyone else in the entire world.

This statistic is widely known, but it’s likely most Americans aren’t aware of just how bad the penal system in the country is.

The United States has more imprisoned people than any other nation on the planet.

For every 100,000 citizens, 724 are in prison, and when you see that number, it may not look large, but for China, their number is only 118 out of 100K.

The number becomes an even bigger problem when accounting for the total population of prisoners in the States, which is around 2.2 million, and the jail occupancy rate is at 107.6%, meaning they are overcrowded and insufficient to house what amounts to the equivalent population of Macedonia.

The rest of the world will not arrest you for having a lemonade stand in your front yard, jay walking, or riding in a car without a seatbelt. They will not demand you report your earnings and expenses every year to them. They will permit you to live your life.
The rest of the world will not arrest you for having a lemonade stand in your front yard, jay walking, or riding in a car without a seatbelt. They will not demand you report your earnings and expenses every year to them. They will permit you to live your life.

Overcrowding is just one of the many problems facing incarcerated Americans; another major concern revolves around the fact that more than 21% of incarcerated people haven’t been sentenced with a crime. Doing so usually takes a long time.

You see, if a person can’t afford bail, they have to remain in prison until they’re sentenced, even if they are ultimately acquitted of a crime. This essentially means that because everyone is innocent until proven guilty, the United States has more than 460,000 innocent people in jail.

Conclusion

Being a serf in the middle ages, for most Americans, would be an improvement over their lives today.

The pleasures of spending time with family and loved ones, a slower pace, and good food and drink are not appreciated by Americans today.
The pleasures of spending time with family and loved ones, a slower pace, and good food and drink are not appreciated by Americans today.

Both situations; serfhood under a modern progressive oligarchy, or serfhood under a King, are similar. The differences lie in technology and lifestyle.

While life in the middle ages didn’t have all the modern inventions and advancements that we take for granted, their pace of life, lifestyle and easy-going happy-go-lucky life had advantages that Americans today can only dream about.

We are not machines. Toss away that progressive modern Marxist ideal. It has no place within your life.
We are not machines. Toss away that progressive modern Marxist ideal. It has no place within your life.

Now, here’s a chuckle…

Buzzfeed Chimes in…

13 Reasons Why Living In Medieval Times Was Better Than Modern Times. Once you got past that whole “plague” thing, life in the middle ages was pretty darn sweet. Adventure back to an epic age hidden from the history books.

  • You could settle every argument by jousting.
  • Animals could be put on trial for any wrongdoings.
  • Immaculately painted portraits > Facebook selfies.
  • No silverware? No problem.
  • Beer was flowing like water. Literally.
  • Words were just cooler back then.
  • You could live in castles, cottages, towers, and manors.
  • Medieval fashion was the best fashion.
  • You could own as many swords as you want and nobody would bat an eyelash.
  • You could get away with bathing once a month and nobody would call you out on it.
  • The live entertainment was second to none.
  • “Knight” was a completely viable career option.
  • And, yes, because there were still cats.

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The Mystery of the forgotten Madog Expedition that followed the lost Madog expedition.

America is full of mysteries. Most of which were plowed under, misidentified, or buried in local Indian lore. As a young boy, my friends and I would explore the local library, and talk to the old timers in our town and learn the lore of our region. Yes. Stuff that you wouldn’t be able to find in any school history books.

Let’s look at one of these interesting mysteries of America.

Whilst it was generally believed that Columbus was the first European to discover America in 1492, it is now well known that Viking explorers reached parts of the east coast of Canada around 1100 and that Icelandic Leif Erikson’s Vinland may have been an area that is now part of the United States.

What is less well known is that a Welshman may have followed in Erikson’s footsteps, this time bringing settlers with him to Mobile Bay in modern day Alabama.

According to Welsh legend, that man was Prince Madog (Madoc) ab Owain Gwynedd.

There are apparently two Madocs. One left for America around 600 AD and the other left for America around 1100 AD. This article discusses the second Merdoc, the one that left around 1100 AD.

A Poem gives us a hint.

A Welsh poem of the 15th century tells how Prince Madoc sailed away in 10 ships and discovered America.

The account of the discovery of America by a Welsh prince, whether truth or myth, was apparently used by Queen Elizabeth I as evidence to the British claim to America during its territorial struggles with Spain.

Wales relative to England. It is all part of the United Kingdom.
Wales relative to England. It is all part of the United Kingdom.

So, we have to ask ourselves, just who was this Welsh Prince and did he really discover America before Columbus?

My Discovery

It’s an average day. Maybe a little overcast. A little warmer than I would like. Same old, dame old. So I get up and make a brunch.

PHOTO---A delicious chicken salad sandwich.
A delicious chicken salad sandwich.

So, I’m minding my own business eating a chicken salad sandwich on wheat bread and drinking (room temperature) flower tea (not beer), when I come across this on the internet

History and legend have it that MADOC, a son of King Owain of Gwynedd, is claimed not only to have discovered America in 1170, but also to have formed a tribe on the upper Missouri. 

This tribe fuelled tales of fair-haired Indians, living in round huts and using round coracle-like boats, both of which were common in Wales, but unheard of in America at the time. They were also said to speak a language similar to Welsh.

Owain Gwynedd, ruler of North Wales in the twelfth century, had nineteen children, six of whom were legitimate. MADOC, one of the bastard sons, was born in a castle at Dolwyddelan, a village at the head of the Lledr valley between Betws-y-Coed and Blaenau Ffestiniog.   

On the death of Owain Gwynedd in December 1169, the brothers fought 
amongst themselves for the right to rule Gwynedd. MADOC, although being brave and adventurous, was a man of peace. He and his brother, Riryd, left the quay on the Afon (River) Ganol at Aber-Kerrik-Gwynan, on the North Wales Coast (now Rhos-on-Sea) in two ships, the Gorn Gwynant and the Pedr Sant. They sailed west, leaving the coast of Ireland 'farre north' and landed in Mobile Bay, in what we now know as Alabama in the United States of America.  

They liked the country so much that one of the ships returned to Wales to collect more adventurers, and in 1170AD, ten small ships assembled off Lundy Island in the Bristol Channel, which flows between South Wales and Southern England.      

On arrival in America, they sailed from Mobile Bay up the great river systems, settling initially in the Georgia//Tennessee/Kentucky area where they built stone forts. They warred with the local Indian tribe, the Cheyenne. When they decided to return down river in some time after 1186, they built big boats but they were ambushed trying to negotiate the falls on the Ohio River (where Louisville, Kentucky now stands). A fierce battle took place lasting several days. A truce was eventually called and, after an exchange of prisoners, it was agreed that MADOC and his followers would depart the area never to return. 

They sailed down river to the Mississippi, which they sailed up until the junction with the Missouri, which they then followed upstream. They settled and integrated with a powerful tribe living on the banks of the Missouri called Mandans.         

In 1781-82, the white man's gift, smallpox, reduced the Mandans, a tribe of 40,000 people, down to 2,000 survivors. They partially recovered, increasing their numbers to some 12,000 by 1837, when a similar epidemic almost wiped the tribe out completely. It is recorded that there were only 39 survivors but the Mandan-Hidatsa claim it was about 200. These bewildered survivors of a once mighty tribe were taken in by the Hidatsa who had also been affected by the disease but to a much lesser extent. 

It is this background which over the centuries has fueled 
tales of a tribe of fair-haired Indians, living in round huts and using round, coracle-like boats - both of which were common in Wales but unheard of in America at the time. The tribe were also said to speak in a language similar to Welsh.  

As we know many people including the Phonicians, St Brendan and the 
Vikings discovered North America before the Spanish in the 15th century.
 
This story is fascinating and there is a lot of evidence to back it up.
'Mint', a Mandan Indian girl, 1832 by George Catlin
‘Mint’, a Mandan Indian girl, 1832 by George Catlin

First explorations…

Well, after reading that piece, it seems that some crazy things happened out in the Americas around 1100 AD.

  • A Welsh expedition of ten ships (perhaps, the number varies from two ships to two hundred ships) sailed to America from Wales, England.
  • Some reports state that they landed in Middle America first, before moving up the gulf to Alabama.
  • They reached what is now known as Mobile, Alabama. They stayed a short spell, and then moved up river.
Dauphin Island is a narrow strip of land extending from the southernmost point of Mobile County.  On a modern map, it has the shape of a fish. The island is 15 miles long and  is located 30 miles from Mobile. It is connected to the mainland by a concrete    and steel bridge, which was built after the original bridge constructed in 1955  was heavily damaged in Hurricane Frederic in 1979.

Dauphin Island was first known as Massacre Island to the French explorers because they found large piles of human bones there.  

-Dauphin Island History
  • The traveled up the rivers there and formed colonies deep inside of America.
  • The created colonies that merged with the local Indians there.
  • They left a legacy of Welsh-Indian language, fair skinned, beautiful women, round Welsh-style houses, and Welsh-style boats.
  • They settled (initially) in the Georgia/Tennessee/Kentucky area.
  • They settled there. Established a main colony.
  • They then constructed enormous stone forts there.
The Welsh of the Madoc expedition traveled inland up from Alabama, and the Mobile area. They settled initially in the Georgia//Tennessee/Kentucky area where they built stone forts. They warred with the local Indian tribe, the Cheyenne.
The Welsh of the Madoc expedition traveled inland up from Alabama, and the Mobile area. They settled initially in the Georgia//Tennessee/Kentucky area where they built stone forts. They warred with the local Indian tribe, the Cheyenne.

The Forts

One of the “forts” said to have been built by Prince Madoc and his followers is located at Fort Mountain State Park in Georgia.

Madoc was disheartened by this family fighting, and that he and Rhirid set sail from Llandrillo (Rhos-on-Sea) in the cantref of Rhos to explore the western ocean with a number of ships. They discovered a distant and abundant land in 1170 where about one hundred men, women and children disembarked to form a colony.
Madoc was disheartened by this family fighting, and that he and Rhirid set sail from Llandrillo (Rhos-on-Sea) in the cantref of Rhos to explore the western ocean with a number of ships. They discovered a distant and abundant land in 1170 where about one hundred men, women and children disembarked to form a colony.

This fort is located in the Chattahoochee National Forest close to the Cohutta Wilderness area, in North Georgia. It is a most beautiful area, let me tell you.

Great hiking. Wonderful weather. Lot’s of history. You all should check it out.

Approaching the fort wall from the South.   This wall is well over 800 feet long. It is 7 feet in high and 12 feet wide in many places. It seems to be generally agreed upon that the wall was originally much higher.
Approaching the fort wall from the South. This wall is well over 800 feet long. It is 7 feet in high and 12 feet wide in many places. It seems to be generally agreed upon that the wall was originally much higher.

Some authorities feel certain this wall was built Prince Madoc and his followers as a defensive structure. I mean, just look at all the stone used in the creation of this edifice. For goodness sakes.

Though, others (you know, the feeble minded, or those that never had to lift and carry a 300 pound rock in their life) argue with that the wall was built by native North American Indians for ascetic reasons.

Ah, what ever you say…

Sure whatever you say.

Maybe for superstitious or religious and/or astronomical purposes. Not that they know anything about the religion of the builders, but they do like to sound important and intelligent by adding some “ah’s”, and other “sounds and statements attributed by the learned Ivory-tower types”.

Unfortunately, no artifacts have been found. For further details, please visit Georgia’s Fort Mountain.

Remnants of the forts still stand, however. One of the forts is almost  perfectly identical, in terms of setting, layout, and construction, to  Madoc’s birthplace, Dolwyddelan Castle in Gwynedd, Wales. Fort Mountain,  Georgia, in the Chattahoochee National Forest boasts 800 linear feet of  800-year-old wall in ruins guarding the southern approach to a  forbidding crag. And there are actually several of these fort-like  structures scattered here and there. Did the Welsh really build them?  Was Madoc really the first European to see Gulf shores and the virgin  interior of the American South? 

-Porter Briggs
Looking along the fort wall in an westerly direction.  Many of the stones appear to have been knocked over and some areas behind the wall have filled in with earth washed toward the rock wall.
Looking along the fort wall in an westerly direction. Many of the stones appear to have been knocked over and some areas behind the wall have filled in with earth washed toward the rock wall.
The wall has many semi-circular structures as shown here.   These "pits" as they are referred to by the state authorities appear to have a defensive purpose. This view is from the south side of the wall; i.e., the side an enemy would see when approaching the fort.
The wall has many semi-circular structures as shown here. These “pits” as they are referred to by the state authorities appear to have a defensive purpose. This view is from the south side of the wall; i.e., the side an enemy would see when approaching the fort.

Throughout the 17th and 18th centuries, tales appeared to the effect that various aboriginal tribes of North America spoke a form of ancient Welsh, had pale complexions and blue eyes, cherished ancient relics including Bibles printed in Welsh, built little wicker-framed, hide-covered boats similar to Welsh coracles and Irish curraghs, and so on.

West end of the fort wall.   Access becomes very difficult at this point thereby suggesting that this may have been a defensive structure.
West end of the fort wall. Access becomes very difficult at this point thereby suggesting that this may have been a defensive structure.

At various times, the Shawnee, Delaware, Conestoga, Comanche, along with least nine more actual tribes and eight imaginary ones were said to have been blue-eyed Welsh-speaking Indians.  Eventually, the Mandan of North Dakota became the most favored tribe, possibly because their dwellings, and to an extent their social structure, differed from those of their more nomadic neighbors.

North West View  Jimmie Lee Robbins wrote:   ". . . looking out from the North West side of the Mountain.  This is typical of the land around the summit except for the side that has the Stone Wall.  "The South side is the only place that would need protection."
North West View Jimmie Lee Robbins wrote: “. . . looking out from the North West side of the Mountain. This is typical of the land around the summit except for the side that has the Stone Wall. “The South side is the only place that would need protection.”

But they were chased away…

  • They warred with the local Indian tribe, the Cheyenne.
  • The war lasted many days and took place where Louisville, Kentucky now stands.
  • They lost, and after an exchange of prisoners left the area. Abandoning their colonies and forts there.
  • They went up the Mississippi river, took the Missouri river and settled on it’s banks.
They sailed down river to the Mississippi, which they sailed up until the junction with the Missouri, which they then followed upstream. They settled and integrated with a powerful tribe living on the banks of the Missouri called Mandans.
They sailed down river to the Mississippi, which they sailed up until the junction with the Missouri, which they then followed upstream. They settled and integrated with a powerful tribe living on the banks of the Missouri called Mandans.
  • The Mandan Indians were a large and powerful group that provided them protection and trade.
The shaded area on this map shows the territories occupied by various Plains Indian tribes. The Mandan, Hidatsa, and Arikara lived in what are today North and South Dakota.
The shaded area on this map shows the territories occupied by various Plains Indian tribes. The Mandan, Hidatsa, and Arikara lived in what are today North and South Dakota.
  • For around 500 years the Welsh-Indian descendants lived in relative peace.
  • Around 1781 smallpox devastated the Indian nations all over the Americas.
  • The survivors moved and settled with another Indian tribe further North near the Canadian border; the Hidatsa.
Smallpox, reduced the Mandans, a tribe of 40,000 people, down to 2,000 survivors. They partially recovered, increasing their numbers to some 12,000 by 1837, when a similar epidemic almost wiped the tribe out completely. It is recorded that there were only 39 survivors but the Mandan-Hidatsa claim it was about 200. These bewildered survivors of a once mighty tribe were taken in by the Hidatsa who had also been affected by the disease but to a much lesser extent.
Smallpox, reduced the Mandans, a tribe of 40,000 people, down to 2,000 survivors. They partially recovered, increasing their numbers to some 12,000 by 1837, when a similar epidemic almost wiped the tribe out completely. It is recorded that there were only 39 survivors but the Mandan-Hidatsa claim it was about 200. These bewildered survivors of a once mighty tribe were taken in by the Hidatsa who had also been affected by the disease but to a much lesser extent.

Other reports

Other reports seemingly confirm this narrative.

In 1666 the Rev Morgan Jones, a Welsh missionary in North America, was captured by an Indian tribe with fair features and was about to be killed. But he prayed loudly to God in Welsh for deliverance, and was suddenly spared, treated as an honored guest and found he was able to converse freely in Welsh with the natives.

In 1739, a Frenchman, La Verendrye, encountered a tribe of Indians on the Upper Missouri 'Whose Fortifications are not characteristic of the Indians... Most of the women do not have Indian features... The tribe is mixed white and black. The women are fairly good looking, especially the light colored ones; many have blonde or fair hair.' He called them Mantannes.

There were many other visitors to the so-called Welsh tribe; one of 
interest was a Maurice Griffith who was taken prisoner by the Shawnee Indians in 1764. The Indians eventually befriended him and took him on a hunting expedition to seek the source of the Missouri. High in the mountains they came across 'three white men in Indian dress' with whom they traveled for several days until they arrived at a village where there were others of the same tribe, all having the same European complexion.

A council of this white Indian tribe decided to put the strangers to death and Griffith decided it was time to speak. He addressed them in the Welsh language explaining that they had no hostile intentions but merely sought the source of the Missouri and that they would return to their own lands satisfied with their discoveries. The Chief of the Tribe greeted them in Welsh and they were thereafter treated as guests, staying with the nation some eight months. Griffiths eventually returned to Virginia but his story aroused little interest.

In October 1792, a French fur trader, Jacques d’Eglise, who had set off up the Missouri in August 1790, arrived back in St Louis. He had traveled over 800 leagues from St Louis up the river and had found a mighty and wealthy tribe of Indians, the Mandans. 

There had been earlier rumors of this remarkable tribe, but no one had ever reached them from St Louis. He said that they were 5,000 strong, living in eight, great fortified villages; they had the finest furs; they lived in sight of a volcano and alongside the Missouri, which at that point flowed from the west or north-west and could take the largest boats. 

d’Eglise reported that their fortified villages were like cities compared with other native settlements, they were much more civilized than other Indians and the final marvel, these Mandans 'are white like Europeans'. 

Here at last was confirmation of all those stories of civilized white Indians, which had been filtering back along the Missouri for years.

John Sevier, Governor of Tennessee, wrote to a Major Stoddard of the U.S. Army about a discussion he had had with the Major Chief of the Cherokee, Oconostota, in 1792. The venerable old chief informed him that, according to his forefathers, the white people who had formerly inhabited the country had made ancient fortifications on the Highwassee River now called Carolina. A battle took place between the Whites and the Cherokees at the Muscle Shoals on the Tennessee River. After a truce and exchange of prisoners, the Whites agreed to leave the area, never to return, eventually settling 'a great distance' up the Missouri.

The Chief's ancestors claimed 'they were a people called Welsh and they had crossed the Great Water'. Governor Sevier also claimed to have been in the company of a Frenchman who informed him that he had been high up the Missouri and 'he had traded with the Welsh tribe; that they certainly spoke much of the Welsh dialect, and though their customs were savage and wild, yet many of them, particularly the females, were very fair and white.' 

I truly believe, like the Spanish themselves, that they were not the
first white men to set foot on north American soil and with evidence like this it is easy to see why.

In 1739, a Frenchman, La Verendrye, encountered a tribe of Indians on the Upper Missouri 'Whose Fortifications are not characteristic of the Indians... Most of the women do not have Indian features... The tribe is mixed white and black. The women are fairly good looking, especially the light colored ones; many have blonde or fair hair.' He called them Mantannes.
In 1739, a Frenchman, La Verendrye, encountered a tribe of Indians on the Upper Missouri ‘Whose Fortifications are not characteristic of the Indians… Most of the women do not have Indian features… The tribe is mixed white and black. The women are fairly good looking, especially the light colored ones; many have blonde or fair hair.’ He called them Mantannes.

Looking for answers

Preeminent Welsh historians, Alan Wilson and Baram Blackett, have studied this issue in depth. They have amassed a large amount of evidence that supports the long-suppressed idea that the ancient Welsh people traveled to America. Not only that but they explored the North American continent long before the Vikings and Columbus ever set foot on it.

Welsh characterized “Coelbren stones” as well as other credible testimony and evidence have also been found in North America. These items, objects and evidence gives strength to the hypothesis that the ancient Welsh were in America long before Columbus.

Observer after observer commented on the ‘whiteness’ of these Indians. It was this above all, which made them into a people of Myth. Many of them were, without doubt, fair of skin and hair. Their hair was often brown, sometimes red; it turned grey. The men had beards. Their eyes were sometimes blue. The neighbouring tribes, the Hidatsa, the Crows and the Arikara showed similar characteristics, but far less frequently.

History has presented some difficulties in verifying the legend. Although all important events in Welsh life were recorded in the monasteries and abbeys of Wales, most of the records would have been destroyed when Henry VIII dissolved the monasteries between 1537 and 1540 after falling out with the Church in Rome.

The other issue affecting the lack of evidence is that the Mandan Indians, like most such tribes, only have a verbal tradition of their history and that different families are keepers of different parts of the story. With the two smallpox epidemics wiping out large sections of the community with such extreme rapidity, much of their history has been lost.

With regard to the frequency of white physical characteristics, it must be remembered that the Welsh would have only numbered a few hundred amongst a tribe of tens of thousands. Supposedly about 300 men and women left Wales for the New World and if we assume that 200 survived the crossing and the various battles with the Indians, and they were absorbed into a tribe of some 40,000 Mandans, then the best guess is about 5% whites. Even if there were twice as many whites as previously suggested, then they would only number some 10% of the tribe. These would not have been spread evenly throughout the tribe but would have been concentrated in various families and villages.

It seems unlikely that the Mandans were ever a tribe of white Indians, although they had a small percentage of members showing certain European characteristics. The reality of a tribe of white Indians as encountered by the Cherokees probably applied to a group of no more than a few hundred people and is unlikely to have lasted more than a few decades.

Nevertheless, there does appear to be compelling evidence that a group of Welsh people went to America seeking peace, over three hundred years before Columbus, and they were eventually assimilated into a tribe of Indians on the Upper Missouri.

The Mandans, and some of their neighbors, certainly lived in round, earth lodges not dissimilar to those found in Wales. They also used boats similar to the Welsh coracle, a peculiar little craft propelled in an even more peculiar fashion.

If we add to this the undoubted infusion of some Northern European blood resulting in some tribal members having fair skins, fair or red hair and blue, grey or green eyes, then the probability of there being an element of truth in the story must be enormous.

There are also the stories of some Mandans being able to understand the Welsh language and the various tales of the great battles on the falls on the Ohio and Tennessee Rivers. There is the evidence of the stone hill forts in Georgia and Tennessee and the finds of coins, armour and helmets in the region as well as numerous skeletons of non-indigenous peoples

All of this points towards a strong degree of truth to the story of madog.

The lost expedition.

Several centuries before Columbus sailed to the Americas, a Welsh prince named Madoc departed Wales to explore the oceans. He departed with ten ships and went West with a dream of discovering a new land.

Several centuries before Columbus  sailed to the Americas, a Welsh prince named Madoc departed Wales with ten ships and a dream of discovering a new land.  It is believed that he landed in Alabama, and travelled up the water inland.
Several centuries before Columbus sailed to the Americas, a Welsh prince named Madoc departed Wales with ten ships and a dream of discovering a new land. It is believed that he landed in Alabama, and traveled up the water inland.

Madoc the explorer.

Madoc was the son of King Owain Gwynedd.

Now, King Owain, being a king, fathered many children. Being a king in those days was sort of like being the cross between a Rock Star, and Bill Gates. So he could have just about any lady that he fancied, and so he took advantage of this “perk of the office”.

Owain Gwynedd, king of Gwynedd in the 12th century, had nineteen children, only six of whom were legitimate.

Madog (Madoc), one of the many, many illegitimate sons, was born at Dolwyddelan Castle in the Lledr valley between Betws-y-Coed and Blaenau Ffestiniog.

On the death of the king in December 1169, the brothers fought amongst themselves for the right to rule Gwynedd. Madog, although brave and adventurous, was also a man of peace. In 1170 he and his brother, Riryd, sailed from Aber-Kerrik-Gwynan on the North Wales Coast (now Rhos-on-Sea) in two ships, the Gorn Gwynant and the Pedr Sant. They sailed west and are said to have landed in what is now Alabama in the USA.

Prince Madog then returned to Wales with great tales of his adventures and persuaded others to return to America with him. They sailed from Lundy Island in 1171, but were never heard of again.

They are believed to have landed at Mobile Bay, Alabama and then travelled up the Alabama River along which there are several stone forts, said by the local Cherokee tribes to have been constructed by “White People”. These structures have been dated to several hundred years before the arrival of Columbus and are said to be of a similar design to Dolwyddelan Castle in North Wales.

Early explorers and pioneers found evidence of possible Welsh influence among the native tribes of America along the Tennessee and Missouri Rivers. In the 18th century one local tribe was discovered that seemed different to all the others that had been encountered before.

Called the Mandans this tribe were described as white men with forts, towns and permanent villages laid out in streets and squares. They claimed ancestry with the Welsh and spoke a language remarkably similar to it.

Instead of canoes, Mandans fished from coracles, an ancient type of boat still found in Wales today. It was also observed that unlike members of other tribes, these people grew white-haired with age.

Collecting proof.

Wilson and Blackett (English historians) have spent much time in the USA with American historians, collecting considerable evidence and visiting sites of interest.

Evidence of Welsh speaking native Americans is numerous and far more common than what we have perhaps been led to believe, with books and historical records suggesting that this hypothesis cannot now be disregarded.

  • King Arthur II, claims Wilson, was killed in a battle with Native American tribes in what is today known as Kentucky and his body sent home to Britain.
  • In 1824, Thomas S Hinde, of the prominent Hinde family, wrote to John S. Williams, editor of The American Pioneer, regarding the Madog tradition. In the letter (pages 373-376) Hinde claimed to have gathered testimony from numerous sources that stated that in 1799, six soldiers had been dug up near Jeffersonville, Indiana, on the Ohio river with breastplates that contained Welsh coat-of-arms. He also gives several references to Welsh and Welsh-speaking Indians. The present-day location of the breast plates are unknown.
  • Reuben T. Durrett’s book ‘Traditions of the Earliest Visits of Foreigners to North America’ published in 1908 has an incredible amount of references to the Welsh Indians.
  • As does ‘The Rev Morgan Jones and the Welsh Indians of Virginia‘ published in 1898, and ‘The biography of Francis Lewis and Rev Morgan Jones’ written by Lewis’ granddaughter Julia Delafield and published in 1877.

Suppression of History

The establishment historians have done a very good job suppressing the true history of North America. And at the same time promoting the fake history that we are all taught in school.

You know the one. That tired and nonsensical narrative that no one knew how to make boats. Thus the ONLY way for humans to populate the various continents was through walking on foot, and over ice.

Yup.

Instead, the “Native American Indians” first crossed the Bering Sea from Asia into Alaska, then migrated down into North and South America.  Then (out of the blue) the White man showed up around 1500 and “discovered” America. As such they claimed it for themselves and stole the land from the “natives” and killed the ones who resisted the theft. 

To me, it sounds like just another Marxist fairy tale of exploitation written by the usual suspects.

Some people believe Madoc and his  men landed in the vicinity of what is now Mobile, Alabama. In  particular, stone forts along the Alabama River have drawn attention  since they were built before Columbus’s arrival, but some Cherokee  tribes say they were built by “White People.”
Some people believe Madoc and his men landed in the vicinity of what is now Mobile, Alabama. In particular, stone forts along the Alabama River have drawn attention since they were built before Columbus’s arrival, but some Cherokee tribes say they were built by “White People.”

Images of the Lost Welsh Colony

George Catlin, a 19th century painter who spent eight years living among various native American tribes including the Mandans, declared that he had uncovered the descendants of Prince Madog’s expedition.

Mandan Bull Boats and Lodges: George Catlin
Mandan Bull Boats and Lodges: George Catlin

He speculated that the Welshmen had lived among the Mandans for generations, intermarrying until their two cultures became virtually indistinguishable. Some later investigators supported his theory, noting that the Welsh and Mandan languages were so similar that the Mandans easily responded when spoken to in Welsh.

Mandan Village: George Catlin
Mandan Village: George Catlin

All that remains.

All that remains is a plaque. A plaque was placed alongside Mobile Bay in 1953 by the Daughters of the American Revolution.

“In memory of Prince Madog,” the inscription reads, “a Welsh explorer who landed on the shores of Mobile Bay in 1170 and left behind, with the Indians, the Welsh language.”

“In memory of Prince Madog,” the inscription reads, “a Welsh explorer  who landed on the shores of Mobile Bay in 1170 and left behind, with  the Indians, the Welsh language.”
“In memory of Prince Madog,” the inscription reads, “a Welsh explorer who landed on the shores of Mobile Bay in 1170 and left behind, with the Indians, the Welsh language.”

But then it was removed

Storm over missing Madoc plaque
 
Alabama: The Alabama Welsh Society is petitioning Mobile's mayor to return a  monument to Prince Madoc that was removed 20 years ago.

Prince Madoc is  believed to have landed at Mobile Bay in 1170 after he and his brother sailed  from Wales following the death of their father, Owain Gwynedd. While there is  much speculation about Madoc, his legacy is still strong in America where he and  his group are believed to have settled among a Native American tribe. 

The plaque  in question was placed near Fort Morgan in 1953 by the Daughters of the American  Revolution. 

It read: "Prince Madoc, a Welsh explorer, who landed on the shores  of Mobile Bay in 1170 and left behind, with the Indians, the Welsh language."  

According to Blanton Blankenship, site manager at Fort Morgan. the plaque was  removed and placed in storage because Fort Morgan "focuses on the United States military presence. "
 
Alabama Welsh Society: www.alabamawelsh.com 

Origins of The Mandan

Engineer and Rhos-on-Sea native Howard Kimberly grew up with the plaque and the legend. Founder of the Madoc International Research Association, Kimberly collaborates with others devoted to the story, whether in America or the British Isles or wherever. His search led him into talks with Ken Lonewolf, a Shawnee “wisdom-keeper” who lives in Pennsylvania.

Lonewolf, whose DNA indicates Welsh ancestry, believes he is descended from the original Madoc-led Welsh settlers. He notes government records of the sale of his ancestral village at the turn of the nineteenth century. The signature on the legal document is that of the last chief of the Shawnee: “Chief White Madoc.” Apparently the name and the legend meant something to the Shawnee as well.

Origins of The Mandan                                          
By: Madoc   

As a direct lineal descendantof Madoc ab Gwynedd, Princeof Wales           and alleged founder of the  Mandan tribe,  I'd like to  shove my  two cent's worth in...

Madoc (or Madog) was born  about 1150, one of four sons of the King of Wales. He and his brothers did not get along at all, and after the King died, Wales was divided 4 ways among his children. Madoc chose not  to rule his domain directly, having developed the wanderlust that consumes so many Celts. He was a well-regarded sailor, such that his sea-faring exploits were recorded less than 100 years later by a French historian, and again by Dr. John Dee in the 1500's. 

Madoc is said to have left Wales with 5  ships, and to have arrived in the New World about 1172 or '73. He landed twice, once in Central America, where he is alleged to have been the "God" that the locals later mistook Cortez for. He then backtracked through the Gulf of Mexico  and landed around New Orleans. He packed his men and equipment up the Mississippi, finally stopping due to sickness in his men. He and his able-bodied crew floated back downriver and returned to Wales. 

Madoc left Wales again around 1176, and returned to the Mississippi            river. He supposedly found that his surviving original crew had            intermarried with the local Native American populations, and most            chose not to return to Wales. 

Madoc himself may have  stayed, as there is no record of his returning to Wales again. 

Years  later, Lewis and Clark heard fantastic tales of "white Indians" who supposedly built forts, spoke Welsh, and fished from "coracles," which are leather boats totally unlike canoes. They were unable to substantiate those claims, although they found many "light-skinned" Native Americans, some of whom had blue eyes and blond or blondish hair and spoke a mish-mash of Souix and something that resembled Welsh in some aspects. These people claimed, unlike their compatriots, that they were descended of a "race of giants" who built their tipis of logs and came from "across the sea" (a sea which  they had never seen, by the way) and whose leader (Madoc?) had promised to  return for them one day. The local Native Americans whom they lived with supported their claims.

The Mandan as a tribe still exist. They speak Souix and live mostly on reservation land in Wisconsin and up into Canada. They traditionally build log cabins and fish from leather coracles.                        The Mandan claim that they were separated as an independent tribe            because of disease and wars with settlers. They have largely become            Souix, and the US government lists the Mandan as Souix. 

My family traces its roots directly to Madoc through Ireland, where            his offspring settled after being evicted from Wales by the British. As the King of England said at the time, "They can go to Hell or go to Connaught." My father is the direct lineal descendant of the Crown, and I am his first-born (and only) son. My father is the legitimate Prince of Wales, and Charles is a Pretender.  

Conclusion

This story is typical and should be an example of how colorful the human experience is. People! Life doesn’t fit into nice compartmentalized boxes, it is complex and tied together with so many other aspects of the human experience and our universe.

If there is one thing that I would advise, it would be for you, the reader, to visit your local historical society and explore and poke around a little. Meet the people there, and talk to them. Listen to their stories, and learn a little bit more about the place where you and your family live. It will give you understanding and perspective. As well as being entertaining.

These historical societies are everywhere and can be found in the smallest of towns, like in Erie, or in Kittanning. You all should go and take a visit to them. You will not be disappointed.

The Hagen History Center on West 6th Street in downtown Erie, PA is the headquarters of the Erie County Historical Society. Housed in the historic Watson-Curtze Mansion, the History Center includes a regional history museum, research library, archives, and gift shop. The building was built in 1891 and is listed on the National Historic Register. It has been a museum since 1941. The museum features a permanent collection of Victorian era home decor, as well as temporary exhibits on local and regional history.
The Hagen History Center on West 6th Street in downtown Erie, PA is the headquarters of the Erie County Historical Society. Housed in the historic Watson-Curtze Mansion, the History Center includes a regional history museum, research library, archives, and gift shop. The building was built in 1891 and is listed on the National Historic Register. It has been a museum since 1941. The museum features a permanent collection of Victorian era home decor, as well as temporary exhibits on local and regional history.

Our world is colorful. Do not fall for the progressive narrative where everything fits into nice orderly boxes, and all our problems will be resolved if we give all of our money to the “experts” to solve those problems.

It’s all a big money-making sham.

“Attractions at the Armstrong County Historical Society and Genealogical Museum” Reviewed April 9, 2015  The house was built in 1842 and houses many rooms. The second floor has theme rooms of Military and Native American and also displays a sewing room and master and child room. The main floor boasts a parlor, dining, kitchen, pantry and McConnell Hall where the displays change yearly. A tour guide walks with you and relates the history of the magnificent home. Next door is what was once the Carriage House where the local genealogical library is now housed with many books of local history and local family history. The helpers are fantastic and do research while you are there or you can contact them via mail.
“Attractions at the Armstrong County Historical Society and Genealogical Museum” Reviewed April 9, 2015 The house was built in 1842 and houses many rooms. The second floor has theme rooms of Military and Native American and also displays a sewing room and master and child room. The main floor boasts a parlor, dining, kitchen, pantry and McConnell Hall where the displays change yearly. A tour guide walks with you and relates the history of the magnificent home. Next door is what was once the Carriage House where the local genealogical library is now housed with many books of local history and local family history. The helpers are fantastic and do research while you are there or you can contact them via mail.

Comments

 Hi, and thanks to the Blind King of Bohemia for posting the interesting  story of Prince Madoc and the finding of America. I'm an archaeological  scientist with both North American and European experience, and a long  interest in history. I've read about Madoc before and, based on what  little I've been able to fathom, the story has not been shown (at least  yet) to be false. 
 
 In recent years, much has been delved into on the notion of the Eurpoean  exploration/finding of America, and some scholars have even suggested  that prehistoric eskimos or their like had manage to navigate coastal  waters of an ice-locked shoreline that may have developed in the North  Atlantic during the last Ice Age. 

They even go as far as to suggest that  some or many eastern American Indian tribes were descended from these  prehistoric explorers, rather than coming solely from Asia, as the  standard model gives it. 

This would explain some unusual European-like  stone age artifacts and (disputed) dating that (at around 14000yrs)  would be too awkwardly early for people to have crossed from the west  (roughly 13000yrs ago). This may explain some of the European-like  traits seen in eastern American Indian tribes by some 17th-18th century  explorers, rather than being due to Madoc. But all these notions are,  though possible, unproven.
  
 However, up until recently, the Vikings' Vinland Sagas (wherein they  related their wonderful tale of going to North America - please read  it!) were thought, like the story of Madoc, to be the stuff of fairy  tales, but we now have physical evidence of at least one Viking  settlement in Canada, at L'Anse aux Meadows, as well as, of course,  three towns and 450 farms in Western Greenland (yes, Western - the side  closest to Canada), which was settled in the 11th Century.
 
 This is important, because the viking sagas also mention that they  encountered Welsh or Irish monks on their travels, which serves no  purpose to embelishing the sagas (such as boldy going where no man went  before etc), nor does it help in claiming new territories. We know that  there were seafaring monks in the North Atlantic by this time, and that  at least the Irish were recognised as excellent boat builders by the  vikings. Indeed, the sagas suggest that when they set off west for  Vinland, as previously with Iceland, that they'd already been told of  these places by those same monks. 
 
 And we know that by the 14th Century, long before Columbus, the North  Atlantic was already a busy place, with long-established shipping and  fishing routes between Scandinavia, the British Isles, Iceland and  Greenland (and yes, at least one village in Canada!), before the  300yr-old Greenland community collapsed, succumbing to worsening  climatic conditions. 

All the history of which leads us to consider that  Madoc's earlier journey now at least seems less fantastical, even if we  still have no proof, and certainly, America itself (at least, that is,  the east coast of Canada) was no secret to the later North Atlantic  wayfarers of the 11th-14th centuries.
 
 After the "Little Ice Age" finished off the Greenland community, and  generally worsened conditions for any northern trans-atlantic travel,  "the knowledge" was not entirely lost, and by the 1470s at the latest,  there are records of Bristol fishing ships traveling back to those old  haunts and their known rich cod-fishing grounds off of what we now call  Cape Cod. 

In 1496, John Cabot (Giovanni Cabotti, a Genoese merchant  sailor who settled in Bristol, England), sailed from Bristol to find,  circumnavigate, map and name Newfoundland. He was therefore yet another  man to officially reach the North American mainland before Columbus  (remember, in 1492, Columbus actually found Cuba, and even then, and for  year afterwards, was convinced it was an outlying island of India -  hence the term the West Indies). 

Anyway, Cabot's journey is important  for another reason. He sailed from Bristol, the fishing community of  which, along with a few shipping communities from Ireland, had long  retained their old commercial "secret" of the abundant fishing grounds  off of Cape Cod (in Massachussetts) and safe-harbours visited to the  north. 

Clearly, these sailors had retained the knowledge of their  earlier generations' explorations. Cabot soon got wind of this and  applied to the Sheriff of Bristol, Richard Americk, for funds to  explore, map and name these lands for the British crown and get Bristol  officially established there first. Yes, Americk, twice Sheriff of  Bristol, is the man whose surname gives us the name America.  

Unfortunately, nobody in America cares to learn about him, and the  "mystery" as to the origin of the name "America" goes on. 

Americk, by  the way, is a rare name, and came about because he was Welsh, born as  Rhys ap Meyrick, in Monmouth, but Anglicised his name to Richard Americk  when he moved to Bristol. Americk funded Cabot's journeys. To Americk,  Prince Madoc may have been a proud historical Welsh fact rather than a  modern fantasy. And Cabot's Bristol-born son, Sebastian Cabot, continued  the work. Between 1500 and 1507 Sebastian Cabot was the first to  navigate and accurately chart the entire coastline of Brazil. 
 
 So there you go, the North Atlantic was a pretty busy place before  Columbus. 

By the way, Brutus, the notion about Quetzalcoatl bringing  farming and housing to Mexico is misplaced. Growing crops in Mexico was  established at least a thousand years before his time, as was housing  etc. 

However, I do have one last interesting point to raise, regarding  traces of the Welsh in America. An archaeologist friend of mine was  working with a Blackfoot group in Canada, a couple of decades ago (long  before she or I had ever heard of Madoc), cataloging and restoring  tribal relics at the Glenbow Museum. 

She was told by an elder, in  response to some quandary over conflicting ancestor descriptions given  in transcriptions of taped oral histories, that traditionally, the  founding father of their particular tribe was described, in the  tradition passed down to him, as a white-faced man, but that during the  conflicts with white settlers in the 19th century, this had become a  problematic issue. 

And he said that certainly, by the mid twentieth  century, this description had become disputed within the tribe or at  least politically incorrect for many younger tribal members keen to  assert their rights as first nation Americans. And that nowadays, this  father spirit is depicted as an American-Indian looking man. 

-Streety
 I just completed a book about Madoc et al, entitled Graves of the Golden Bear; Ancient Monuments and Fortresses of the Ohio Valley.
 
 It will be on Amazon Kindle, Barnes & Noble, and Smashwords by October 15th.
 
 One hint: The 1170 date is a different Madoc /Madog/Maddaug than the one in America. He was much earlier.
 
 Streety, if you're still around, have you ever read Alan Wilson's take on the chronicles? 

- RickOsmon 

Other mysteries

Here are some OOPARTS explained through my eyes while I was associated  within MAJestic. In all cases the discussions are based on what I was exposed to. Most of which is considered to be fringe and “tin hat” stuff. Whatever. Enjoy.

The fuselage embedded within the rocks of Victoria Falls.
The Hammer inside the rock.
The Hollow Moon
The Mystery of the Lapulapu Ridge.
The Mystery of the Baltic UFO.
Mystery of the bronze bell.
Mystery of the oil lamp found inside a block of coal.
Did extraterrestrials set up a colony in Pennsylvania?
The mysterious flying contraptions.
The Oxia Palus Facility

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