From the late 1990’s until around 2001, the Internet was “rocked” by the sudden appearance and subsequent disappearance of a Mr. John Titor. This person claimed to be a “time traveler” by using inter-dimensional travel. Here in this post we have the John Titor final transcripts.
Now, that being stated, all of this was rapidly dismissed as a hoax, in unity, by all the major debunking organizations, and his posts mysteriously disappeared off the Internet. Since then, all the sources that he posted on all found that their files related to John Titor were all corrupted and could not be reclaimed.
That was the case for over a decade.
Then, in 2014, a number of private individuals managed to piece together independently saved dialogs relating to John Titor. They constructed numerous websites that hosted these reclaimed dialogs, and posted them on the Internet for others to view. Here we have the John Titor final transcripts.
Presented here are recovered posts from the Internet collected in 2014. It is not known if any posts have been deleted or altered. They are presented as they were found by the author. This group contains a significant amount of back and forth banter regarding his documents and photos. It also includes his farewell post. Enjoy.
Important Warning
The information within this series of posts are speculative. I have no factual information if this John Titor is what he claimed to be. It is presented herein as the only (or maybe, one of the only) sources that claim to be associated with the vehicles that pop in and out of our reality from time to time.
He was, as far as I know, never associated with MAJestic in any way.
Original John Titor Posts – Part 7 – Transcripts C
Here are the original John Titor posts from the Post2Post Art Bell Forum. Obtained from HERE. This is the second group of the john titor post history.
- John Titor dialog is in normal text in brown color, text by others are italicized.
- When referencing other non-Titor questions, green color is used.
- Purple color is for non-related text.
- Metallicman comments are in red color.
Metallicman corrected spelling and some punctuation to make the text easier to read and understand. For unedited text, please refer to the source.
I also added some commentary to liven things up somewhat. Enjoy.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-19-2001 11:38 PM
Tom, actually I noticed this difference and several others you have not mentioned when I first saw the diagrams and questioned John about it here is his response below from an email: “If you take another look at the pages you can see that the first one is much smaller too and there are two punch holes at the top of the second one. Since I was getting complaints about the quality of the picture I decided to use the larger ones which are a compilation of the technical drawings in a packet attached to the unit. The cut-a-way is also a bit different from the unit I have as it shows the interior of the prototype. I haven’t looked closely at all the documents and I suppose there may be other differences too. In fact, there is another version of the same drawing in question which has a side profile on it and it’s not in the manual either. I would imagine that may have been one of the updates. #5 still says cone. I hadn’t noticed the error in numbering before and I’ve seen others in the manual but that’s pretty typical for a military document." If you would, do me a favor and post this if someone else catches that. Actually, this is quite interesting because I suppose if it were a fraud it would be expected to be perfect. That’s fascinating and I hadn’t thought about it before.” sincerely, Pamela Javier, Where is John? probably P.A.C.K.I.N.G.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 03:04 AM
Smile I am not a time traveler. Can I apply a truth table to all this discussion? What if I said that I might be able to? What would that prove? Some of the people would believe it, some people would not believe it, some people would not care. That’s about it. That’s all that is happening anytime people get together to discuss anything from the past or the future.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-20-2001 03:25 AM
Javier, “P.S. Sure, where should we all take our vacation? Me, you, and John “I wanna be a Time Traveler someday” Titor, wanna go off to?” How about the stoneage? Wanna take a ride??? hehheheheh -pamela
Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-20-2001 06:35 AM
Oh! The misdirected rage of a 21 year old. Javier, put your efforts into something worthwhile and you’ll go far in life. Don’t let this time of your life be wasted smashing things.
Posted by James R.Quayle III on 03-20-2001 06:40 AM
Angry I do not need to believe in John titor’s claims too say,Javier your a good intelligent skeptic,But your also the type that will get left in the dust when something big does happen, You remind me of the neighbors who run inside here in Newport Beach when Ufo’s fly over the beach,they run inside saying,NO ,NO I see it but it CAN”t be real! I have read all the replies on this **** time travel post from the beginning,and at the end ,I find you a bitter dude. In your universe view the world must be a boring place. Sure,Time Travel is not true,Javier,now go play while me and my friends go back in time and make sure your Mom and dad never met,ha,ha. Skepticism is good but ,your little barbs flown over and over on this post seems bitter,You probably have never experienced Any odd phenomena? That is how it seems,so sad for you,open your eyes and The Wierd will appear. Happy Trails John Titor,where ever you go,you made me and others think,not necesarily believe ,but what a gift of thought.Javier resign to your cubicle,horse blinded view ,how non-unique you are Javier.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-20-2001 06:48 AM
Cool just grab the shades and hop in the Chevy to “take a ride”. Pamela: Wouldn’t you all look a tad out of place in the stone age? Seems that trip would definitely blow ones cover, but who would care. Just a bunch of grunting hairy but naked human-like ancestors. I can see it, a Chevy pick up, probably black or dark blue in color appears in stone age florida…isnt it wet? NO matter, its a chevy. 🙂 The only problem is there is room for 3 in that extra cab and a tight squeeze at that. Javier: You would be sitting behind John. That would be an interesting development. If John is a TT, he is still human. How would you handle that morally? Take away his toy? j/k The stone age would be a drag I think. Unknown diseases, yuk. Might as well be a cow and go to England. Ever thought of say….the 1920’s. Florida would be there…and definitely dry. Besides the ’20’s would be interesting. Period cash? Who cares. Does not seem that money is all that important in Time Travel. Having Fun. Phil
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 06:58 AM
Tom: Last week I was looking at the images that JT had uploaded onto MSN and noticed a simple typo in the operations manual page showing a diagram of the Tipler sinusoid field produced by his device where in the diagram, item 10. The (Negative Time Event Horizon) had been transposed as item 11 in the diagram, though the item value was printed correctly in the legend. I didn’t think anything of it until I looked at the same page as found on Ricks site and saw that the typo was gone from the page. I’m not trying to play pixel person or anything, but unexplained edits to the images that have been posted do lead me to wonder what other changes are being made. (Then again, a time machine might just turn out to be a copywriters best friend!) Tom – For the record, those pictures were pulled from Doc’s site about 3-4 weeks ago, about the time I got involved in this discussion. I’ve had copies of them since then, and have made no modifications. Are you telling me that you found a discrepancy between the ones I have and some OTHER pictures? If so, please give me the URLS where you located them. Thanks (Edited & added) – I just read Pamela’s comments on the photos, and sure it is plausible that he had multiple copies of various diagrams. She is also accurate in her statement about military documents being full of errors. I deal with technical orders and other such documents all the time, and they ALWAYS have misprints, typos, misspellings and mislabeled diagrams. Regardless of how much money is being spent on a government project, the documentation is only as good as the cheapest tech-writer they can hire. Remember – LOWEST BIDDER! Rick [Edited by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 at 07:14 AM]
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-20-2001 06:59 AM
Arrow
Hi James.
I am not defending Javier, nor am I putting him down, but your last post needs a clarification…in fairness.
You wrote to Javier:
“You probably have never experienced Any odd phenomena?”
I cannot be specific, but he has claimed to experience odd phenomena. Some sort of Temporal condition. Impressions I think. Whatever the case, I did not figure him to be a dry non-experiencing figure. At times he has seemed a “tad” bigoted to time travelers. Perhaps he will expand that for clarification.
Not a slam James, I saw an error and am pointing it out. The pages Javier stated his beliefs and experiences were fairly early in the thread and included his web site link that does clearly state his mission.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 07:09 AM
John – Pamela – whoever can get John to listen… I have offered my services as an independent viewer/observer of the departure. I can and will make arrangements to fly to Florida with video taping equipment and some camera gear. However, I need a little lead time to get the equipment to me. Olav, the S4 Data base web master has offered basically unlimited space on the web site, as well as digitizing the video – making it free for folks to see. I do not believe that making a video “for profit” is going to convince anyone that anything occurred. Worse, turning such a video over to anyone other than say, Art Bell himself, or independent (and skeptical) observers is just plain silly. Anyone with their hands in the “belief” portion of the video might not do as good a job as I might, since I am not really on the “believing” side. Now… I’ve not had a reply from John at this point, but if his departure is imminent, I still require time to make arrangements for equipment, flight, car rental etc. This would be coming out of my pocket. That also means I won’t be helping anyone hoax anything. Now… John… are you going to take me up on this offer or not? If I don’t see it first hand – I doubt a video will make it any more real. What do the rest of you say? Rick [Edited by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 at 07:18 AM]
Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-20-2001 07:49 AM
Wink I have stated on more than one occasion that I would find it very interesting to have John’s departure recorded, and I have asked John in this forum if he still planned on doing so. I do not believe I was ever directly responded to. From the basis of comments made in this thread, I view Rick as an open-minded skeptic who would appear to have strong credibility. He has made an offer more than once to document this event at his own expense and I, for one, hope John takes him up on his offer. What do you say, John? We are all awaiting your response.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-20-2001 07:59 AM
Red face That John, just a few days ago stated he was going to have the video done, but was not intending a 3rd party to be there. Indeed this raises the eyebrow, but even if it is a hoax, it is still interesting and I am curious what might happen in the video. I think there was talk of the field surrounding the mechanism, that it might disrupt or corrupt the video if taken too close in distance. I would love for Rick to be a third party assignee for video. He has credibility. I know that is not what you desire John, but contact Rick. He has the means to handle this and is a skeptic. Besides, according to your description, this world line differs from yours. No harm would come to your family on your world line..that is IF Rick were corrupt, which I sincerely do not think is the case. Perhaps worth considering?
Posted by Alexander A.Shpilman on 03-20-2001 09:46 AM
The history John Titor, resemblances to me a April Fools’ joke of the students. 1) The style of thinking is similar to style of thinking of the American of 1990. And plot of a film-hit: When all people of the Earth catch illness a “cow rage”. Or such as – what will be, if there will be overturning magnetic poles of the Earth? 2) The history of the people abounds “surprises”. But we to them quickly get accustomed. In this history there are no surprises. There is nothing is paradoxical new. 3) How to distinguish micro Kerr black holes from electron, proton or neutron? The difference will be in mass? It microsingularites. How it to make macrosingularites? I think, it is necessary better to know thin structure of a matter. 4) It is necessary to distinguish a “global line” from “world-line”. There is an analogy: many people go on the rope bridge. The bridge is swing from a wind and movement of the people. The rope bridge is a “global line” matters (body of the man). “World-line” is a trajectory of movement of the man in space on the rope bridge. Obviously, a “Global line” from “world-line” are connected among themselves, but they differ. If I would be TTer, I would study properties of a “global line”. I would study, how the change of events in the past (events at my doubles in the past), my opportunity influences to change events in the present time. Certainly, it is difficult. But it is possible to begin from study of a situation of planets and stars, earthquakes and hurricanes, in various temporary flows. Then to study the moments of occurrence of scientific opening and moments of creation of masterpieces of art, and their difference in various temporary flows. In detail about time and OVERTAME look in http://www.pmicro.kz/MISC/UFL/Almanach/2n00/OVERTIMEa.htm and http://www.pmicro.kz/MISC/UFL/Almanach/1n01/OVERTIMEa.htm
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 09:53 AM
I have a few more pictures apparently from John now, that we will post on the anomalies site as soon as I can get in touch with my webby guy out there in CA. I have examined them (the pics of the machine itself) and have not changed my opinion on the machine – it “looks” real enough from a military / government perspective. Even the manuals appear to be what they are purported to be. One thing to note, which I can not remember if I mentioned before – and I am sure no one else has at this point, is a yellow object in the upper part of the picture of the machine in the vehicle. The yellow device is a geiger counter. I’m familiar with THAT machine specifically – not just gieger counters, but THAT model. I’ve used it. I carried two of them in tactical weather gear in the 1970’s and 80’s. I also used one of those devices extensively during my stay at the White House from 1989-1992 during training at a facility outside of DC, where we trained for NBC (nuclear/biological/chemical) warfare. More specifically I used them during training for “shelter management” where we each played President and others.
Anyway, that is a real device. If you look carefully, you will see an older “CD” or Civil Defense sticker on the side. The device is rather old though – probably built in the mid to late 70s and was an important piece of gear in my weather systems and shelters I took care of in those days. It could have come from old stocks of military gear (in 2013 or later) or it could have come from surplus store in 1999 or 2000. Not sure. I did want to point out what it was though.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 09:59 AM
Yes, I think Rick ought to film this, but John has already said that this may not do any good. From the book “Galaxies” by Tim Ferris, yes I know its getting old, but then, why is anyone who deals with the structure of cosmology still are leaning this way: One of a number of sophisticated cosmological models that have been constructed within the broad purview of the big-bang account of cosmic history, this theory, proposed by J. Richard Gott III of Princeton University, postulates the existence of not one universe but three. It envisions that the big bang gave rise not only to our universe, where matter predominates over antimatter and time runs forward, but a second universe where antimatter predominates and time moves backward, as well as a tachyon universe where everything moves faster than the velocity of light. Our universe and the antimatter universe are segregated in terms of time. Both are segregated from the tachyon universe in terms of space, since the tachyons in the first instant of creation fled beyond the light cones of all observers in both the matter and antimatter universes. The Gott cosmology is a masterpiece of symmetry without being dictatorial about it: it predicts, for instance, that there should be traces of contamination of our universe by antimatter (as has been verified by observation) and by tachyons (as has not). Whatever likelihood we might care to assign to its validity, in this combination of symmetry and imperfection the Gott model is redolent of nature’s style. Now are you sure that you can not communicate with another you in the antimatter universe? Now what if this is proved. It may prove that God (she) has put you all over the place, and in many different places for one reason, you may have the means to destroy yourself with science of the future. She(God) has wiped your butt all over the place already, now who won besides (God)? We all win, maybe, this way.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 10:11 AM
God may be angry as John proposes, but still, I think it is just humans that are doing the dirty deed, and humans are the ones that are angry. This has nothing to do with God, so if this happens, blame the humans, not God.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 10:19 AM
This theory leaves at least two Johns running around, and maybe a lot of johns running around.(Alright, it a joke, johns. You are all the other johns running around.)
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-20-2001 10:20 AM
Rick, Good observation on the device. I’ve been looking through surplus gear sites on the web to find a similar device for sale. The two yellow caution tapes on the device are misaligned. Sloppy workmanship.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 12:02 PM
Albert: Yes, I think Rick ought to film this, but John has already said that this may not do any good.
I am not sure I understood your piece there Albert. Are you saying that because someone else films/video tapes the departure, we might not see it on tape?
I’m not sure what that has to do with antimatter. If John were an anti-matter John, he could not have come here in the first place. One doesn’t have to meet ones-self to destroy oneself when made of antimatter. One mere must contact ANY matter. Matter and antimatter will obliterate one another no matter what form it is in when it contacts.
Darby: The two yellow caution tapes on the device are misaligned. Sloppy workmanship.
Which is pretty much normal for government equipment. Doesn’t prove anything though. I have equipment that is government gear that has similar labels. None of them are aligned.
As far as a “good call” well, I’m not sure about that, I was just stating what I know to be facts from personal experience. I know, for instance that the yellow geiger counters were standard gear for fallout shelters for military personnel in certain places. I also know that almost NO ONE knew anything about them, how to operate, read or change the batteries in them. I don’t even remember the type of batteries they took but if I remember right, they were C cells (but they might have been 6v lantern batteries too – I simply can not recall that part). I will never forget using them though. The government cost back then was around 900-1200 bucks. Something similar today will run you 750 or 800 commercially, but they aren’t as sturdy as the good old yellow ones were.
I’ve been doing some careful examination of the pictures. They simply aren’t high enough quality to be able to get details though. <shrugs>
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 02:05 PM
I am just saying that John is the one that said that it may prove nothing further, that the pictures will not help anyone believe him to be a TT or not, if they do not already believe. I would like to see the pictures, though.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 02:30 PM
Albert;
I see your point. But… it will prove it to ME. That’s what *I* care about. Call me selfish if you like, but I could care less if anyone else believes or not. I don’t care if you do, or Javier believes or disbelieves.
I am trying to show 1) Either fraud or 2) John is a time traveler.
If someone goes and actually is present as a witness besides his own family or personal friends, it won’t matter then because they can not fake the photography, nor pull “magic tricks” – smoke and mirrors, whatever you want to call it.
I consider myself qualified as an observer for several reasons.
First and foremost, I’m extremely interested in the outcome of this exercise.
Secondly, I’m a skeptic. For a skeptic to see something with their own eyes, is PROOF POSITIVE to a skeptic. Whether or not YOU believe the skeptic is up to you. If you went I might believe you. If Javier goes, I would definately believe him. Personally, I do not trust Javier to go without doing something to disrupt things. He has made it very clear he has a problem – moral or otherwise, with time travelers.
[Not true. I once took a skeptic to visit my first wife's cousin who had this weird ability to bend spoons. He did not believe.
So we gave him the opportunity to take a spoon from his own kitchen, and give it to the spoon-bending cousin. There, right in front of his eyes, inches away, she rubbed the spoon and it started to bend and twist and deform.
He still did not believe.
To this day, he still is trying to come up with "how" she was able to pull off the "trick". Skeptics tend to defend the reality that they know, and are often very closed to new ideas. - Metallicman.]
Thirdly, I’m a “trained observer”. My jobs over the years, from engineer, to teacher, to computer ‘guru’ to storm chaser more than qualifies me to do the job of objectively observing an experiment and giving a truthful and objective report on the subject, no matter what the subject entails.
Fourthly, I’ve heard no one else offer their services, their own hard earned cash or their time to do this. I have. I certainly haven’t seen Art Bell come in the forum and post his thoughts. If he had, and offered to be there, and perhaps do a live report, that would have been the best thing. I don’t think he will – for several reasons. But most importantly, it could be dangerous!
Fifthly – Danger… been there, done that. I’m afraid of heights and don’t climb if I dont have to. I do have antenna towers in the back and climb them. I have to. I hate and am afraid of flying. I’ve been to 42 countries. I didn’t get there on a slow boat. I’ve been shot at many times in Central America, and also in the middle east. Nancy Reagan and Richard Nixon have chewed my ass. I’m not afraid of anything else (except spiders). I do not have to fly (cept to get there), I don’t have to climb (cept perhaps to get a good video shot), I don’t have to deal with spiders, Nancy Reagan or Richard Nixon. I DO have to get truthful video, good pictures and even perhaps an interview if John would consent to doing so. This I CAN DO.
Sixthly – I consider myself a decent writer. You will get a very good report.
Now… Whether you chose to believe the data that I will bring you, is up to you – and each person will have to decide. Without knowing me personally, none of you can be sure I’m not a government agent, I’m not a Russian Spy or I’m not in cahoots with John.
Since I’m not any of these things, and I don’t have much else I can show you right now to prove this, you’ll have to take my word. For now.
However, anyone that wants to know more about me is welcome to read up on my writing, my bio and a lot of other stuff on my web site. You can – as several people have pointed out, get a good idea of a person’s background from their writing. It might take you some time, but, the data is there. I’m not extremely private, and anyone that wants to find me, can. My “secrets” are things that I’ve done for the government and no one will get that information from me under ANY circumstances, but the rest of my life is pretty much an open book.
Now… do you want to trust your intutition completely, your eyes and ears, me, John or this forum? You decide.
Rick
[Edited by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 at 02:34 PM]
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-20-2001 04:21 PM
Dear “FREE”, Thankyou for the “jet” link. I read all of it. yes, that was very interesting. wasn’t sure if I could use your email address to respond back to you. but I wanted to let you know I did read it all. and I will keep what you said in mind.Thankyou for being concerned. sincerely, pamela
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-20-2001 08:22 PM
The Stoneage you said huh? Nah, I was thinking more along the lines of Medieval Times. I always liked playing with Swords and fighting when I was a kid. My big brother would be the Ninja (a real ninja) and beat me up all the time. Ahh the good ole’ days . -Javier C. P.S. Mel and James. Excuse me for having a little fun here for a change. When do I ever? And when I do, I get hassled about it. You don’t know me, you don’t know what I am capable of. I have abilities and control that alot of people my age lack. Maybe once you learn to not accept life for it’s flaws, and stand up for what’s right, you’ll make something of your self. And see that I was right all along . [Edited by Javier Cortez on 03-20-2001 at 08:35 PM]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 10:53 PM
Here’s what I think of John at this point. It really does not matter if he is a TT or not, well, it might. John thought about some things going on and with technology and he decided that he had something to say about the future as he saw it. He came up with a story to get people interested with what he was thinking. That was: time travel may be possible in the future, if it is, and other countries found out, this may not be good. He presented it as a story to strongly interest people about what they thought about the future, if time travel becomes a reality. He may have a three year old and wonder what kind of world he will grow up in. I must admit that I was not really thinking in those terms, so to me it was a wake up call. You get going with school, life, and hear news but it nevers just clicks with you. The What If? I tend to look at the world through rose colored glasses sometimes, and that becomes too relaxed.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 11:38 PM
Here’s something I found out this year. During the Cold War or maybe about in the ’70’s, the Russians were working on a new type of jet engine. This engine that uses, if I remember right because its not at the newscientist website anymore, ionized gases to control the engine. This means that it needs no wings, no airelons, or controls. Just by changing the ionized gas flowing around the engine, this engine is unique. Now NASA been informed of it, and is working with it, and Russia can build a plane, not mach speed, but for transport that uses this type of engine. It called something like “Plasma” engine. If you like to consider the fact that this engine may be a prototype UFO, I guess it may also be something of a forerunner that could eventually be used to some effect as a UFO moves. Consider that. Russians are not dumb. At the BBC Talking Point, they had the question, just a few weeks ago “Is Russia a Superpower?” Now responses came from around the world, including Russians. One said that they have some bright theoretical physics students, and they have pride in their country. The answer to me is simple: Do they have nuclear weapons? Yes. They are still a Superpower.
Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-21-2001 08:03 AM
The problem with being 21 is that no one ever takes you seriously. We all know that. You should be enjoying yourself right now. You are far too serious, intense and vindictive.
You have been raggin’ on this guy through this whole thread.
I certainly don’t know if John is for real. The one thing I do know is that this has been a great topic and that you need to lighten up and stop trying to save us all with your “Time Cop” role.
[Amen. Try editing this bilge. - Metallicman.]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-21-2001 11:45 AM
Here’s another thing, well, maybe not that important. Harpoon IV is coming out about the end of this year or so. The Navy people play this game. I have Harpoon II and you can download it free, I think still, at website Home of the Underdogs, I think but not sure, its underdogs.com. Well, written by Larry Bond, a Naval Officer of many years, it is about Naval Warfare. The database is well worth looking at, to view for the most part, the Navies of different nations, and type of weapons. Its the closes to having about the best unclassified weapons of war of the modern age. The new one being programmed by someone else will be more of a 3-D type Harpoon. Russians weapons are usually twice the size of US weapons and if you get hit by one, that’s about it. The US weapons usually take 2 or 3 to sink one of their submarines or ships. In any case, Russians have more subs than anything else right now, besides land warfare. The new Harpoon IV will have landings of Marines on shore. I learned a great deal about weapon systems on this planet from that computer game. Just a thought. That Russian engine is still a kind of jet engine. The only way it might fly, (and I am just imagining), around is put it so it swivels. Just dreaming at this point. Still more like a regular airplane. Ionized gases instead of whatever jet engines use, (air?).
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-21-2001 12:25 PM
Cool I’ll get off. Here’s a for instance: Russian weapons — == 200 mile blast area. Russia never built a “small” weapon in their life. The US does. 2000 miles by 3000 miles — size of the US about. It would take 150 Russian missiles and there would be no US. And they do not have to be accurate. So Russia would have to change their entire philosophy.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-21-2001 01:24 PM
Albert:I’ll get off. Here’s a for instance: Russian weapons — == 200 mile blast area. Russia never built a “small” weapon in their life. The US does. 2000 miles by 3000 miles — size of the US about. It would take 150 Russian missiles and there would be no US. And they do not have to be accurate. So Russia would have to change their entire philosophy. Albert… what are you talking about? A “small weapon”? A “large weapon”? There is no such thing as a “200 mile blast range”. The fireball from the largest ever known thermonuclear weapon was less than 5 miles in diameter. The Russians are purported to have built a 350 megaton bomb at one point, of course, we do not know this for sure and it is rumor. Your numbers are way out of scale. I suggest you spend some time doing some research on the subject before you quote numbers. I’ll tell you where to start… http://www.janes.com/ http://www.milnet.com/milnet/nukeweap/nfaq0.htm http://sun00781.dn.net/nuke/hew/ http://www.cdi.org/issues/nukef&f/database/rusnukes.html http://www.enviroweb.org/issues/nuketesting/nukeffct/ http://www.dnfsb.gov/ This should get you started. You will not find anywhere in any of the data where there are 200 mile radii damage zones. Even with the worst thing the Russians can throw at the United States there might be a 7-10 mile damage radius around the blast zone. In my reserch, 20 Megatons seems to be the absolute maximum any one weapon will do. Yeah, they are bad, they are radioactive and they are gonna do some serious, serious damage to the land and perhaps even the planet. However, 200 bombs will not “obliterate” the United States. However – as I JUST finished writing last night in an article, if you’re planning on giving up now, before such a war or survival situation comes up, please – feel free to ship me your food, and weapons. I CERTAINLY will put them to good use. Rick
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-21-2001 01:32 PM
Pictures of the time machine and the manual for those who have NOT yet seen them, are located at: http://www.anomalies.net http://survival.anomalies.net Exact URLs are as follows: http://www.anomalies.net/time_traveler/ http://survival.anomalies.net/time_travel.htm I understand there are some more, that I’ve missed and they are supposed to be sent to me shortly. Rick
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-21-2001 08:00 PM
Poor misguided Mel. You speak as if you almost knew better. Yet still you know nothing about my life, and insist that I am what you claim to be. Well I hate bragging about my self, but I see that it’s necessary. Or else you’ll continue to know nothing about me, and continue ****ing me off. So here I go… Are you a 2nd Degree black belt in Karate? (Everyone in my family knows how to defend themselves, tradition since I am a quarter Chinese, my blood demands it). Were you a League Champ in High School Wrestling? How about going through Army Basic Training? I know tough, if anything I am far from weak and like an average 21 year old. I am incredibly disciplined. I don’t wait another day to speak my mind and take action on things that are wrong. Growing up in So.Cal I’ve seen death, I’ve seen terror, and I’ve seen people taken advantage of. Maybe it’s different where you were brought up, but these kinds of things I I want to do something about them. So pardon, for taking a stand and wanting to do something about the wrong things in life. You don’t see many young people doing that, and I believe it should be encouraged, not condemned. Thank you very much; those were my 2 cents, -Javier C.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-21-2001 11:04 PM
Rick,
If you have contact with Boomer please attempt to verify the elapsed time (on his internal chronometer) for his trip from 2036 to 1975. I need that data for a calculation.
Two problems still unresolved:
Problem #1
Early on Boomer posted that the radius of effect of the time distortion field is 12 to 15 feet (Schwarzschild Radius of 4 to 5 meters). He also said that the mass of the singularities is that of a “small mountain”. I suggested 3*10^18/kg (1/2,000,000th the mass of the Earth)and he did not dispute it (though it may be smaller)…
anyone see where I’m going with this?
Problem #2
There’s another problem with his diagrams on your site:
Page #5 (C204 Tipler Sinusoid…) Item #1 shows the twin singularities in line with the x-ray venting zone.
The schematic following the photos also shows the singularities in line – and in line with the driver’s seat. It seems that the x-rays are vented directly at the driver.
[Good eyes. However, the singularities each are physically adjustable using a black knob at the top of them, and they can be relocated depending on the orientation of the time-travel machine within the vehicle. - Metallicman.]
I’ll post the answer to problem #1 later. Just giving everyone else a chance to do the math.
Hint: R=2GM/c^2 (I posted this formula with little comment for Boomer last week. He didn’t pick up on its significance.)
[Edited by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-21-2001 at 11:16 PM]
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-22-2001 12:06 AM
Rick,
I do hope that you get a chance to see Boomer off. But a video won’t help prove the veracity of Boomer’s story. If what he says is true you’ll only have a video fogged by x-ray emmissions (and maybe some leukemia for yourself). If its unfogged then everything given to you to post on your site about the device is false and misleading.
The last time I checked the physics I didn’t see an “on-off” switch for a black hole or any other singularity. Whether his machine is on or off the singularities continue to generate an event horizon. The singularities are contained in the black box. I have a very good idea of what the Schwarzchild Radius of the alleged micro-singularities should be. The black box lies within the event horizon. How does one photograph an object inside the event horizon from the exterior of the event horizon (in this case the driver’s window of a Chevy pick-up)?
If there is an x-ray problem associated with his machine how is it that his photos aren’t fogged? And, though he’s never said that he hasn’t let anyone else come close to the machine, who took the picture of his two hands in one of the photos?
[Good questions. Easy answers. X-rays are generated during operation. Venting of X-rays are during operation. During operation a person outside of the vehcile would not see anything. The photographer would need to be inside the vehicle. If there were to be a photo taken during operation (such as the laser pointer) then the photographer would need to stand OUTSIDE of the X-ray discharge cone. - Metallicman.]
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 12:47 AM
In my opinion, I don’t believe John, A.k.a “Boomer” expected people to not believe him this close to his leave date of April 10th (his window of opportunity). I’m sure he wanted everyone to believe his story. But in-light to what Darby has shown us, and John’s unwillingness to rebuttal.
We must now see that he has forfeited his opportunity to prove us wrong (your silence only incriminates you and confirms that you are a fraud). Cause he him self is wrong. Somehow, I think Darby was an unexpected variable. I’m glad you were apart of this discussion; I take my hat off to you Darby , great job.
Just something to think about… I know that some of John’s loyal subjects will continue to think he was for real. But I have never, nor have I ever wished that he were a real Time Traveler. The rest of you, shame-shame. Always answering questions for him, defending him, giving him a way out, never really letting him do it all on his own. Always sounded like Heaven’s Gate to me.
Until then, I think John has sung his last song. Either that, or he’s cramming as much math, physics and logic to assist him in answering the last questions. Last chance to make people believers aye John?
I expect a good answer John, if you do decide to answer . If not, that was pretty rude of you to leave without saying good-bye. Or what kind of idiots do you take us for making an excuse like that .
-Javier C.
[For whatever it is worth, during 2001, when this post was written, I was busy in MAJestic. I was traversing the MWI quite adroitly. So, I find such sneers by some of these posters as both amusing and irritating.
You know, just because you cannot speak Chinese doesn't mean that there aren't people who cannot.Just because you don't know how to fly a plane, doesn't mean that no one else does. And, just because you don't know the "secrets of the universe", doesn't mean that everyone doesn't know them either. -Metallicman.]
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-22-2001 01:29 AM
Javier, What surprises me about the believers is that they apparently never really looked closely at what Boomer was telling them. Now, I don’t think he’s a bad guy – I’ve enjoyed the time (there’s that word again) we’ve spent together bantering this subject – but… Here’s who Boomer says he is (from the totality of his posts but more specifically his early posts): A civil war begins in the U.S. when he’s six years old (2004). By 2012, at age 14, he’s a member of a Florida vanguard revolutionary brigade fighting the “enemy state”. He and his military assist the former Soviet Union (Russia) with their invasion of the United States. He said, “The enemy attacked by Russia was the forces of the government you are under now.” He said that the conflict “will consume everyone in the U.S. by 2012”. This will be followed by a short WWIII in 2015. Surely some of the gentle readers have children. Lola has two teenagers. Who else has children, spouses, loved ones who will be of military service age between 2004 and 2012? Boomer admits to making war on the United States and giving aid and comfort to the invading enemy forces. Sounds like treason from our perspective. Sounds like murder if its your children that he kills in the conflict. As Rick Donaldson would say, we are the government – we the people. Boomer says that we are the enemy. So – for the supporters: do you really hope that he’s what he says that he is? Is this what you want for your children?
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-22-2001 01:33 AM
Rick, I check it out later. To me, after seeing movies of H-bombs, early pictures, I was under the impression that a shock-wave is what goes that far or so. Pictures I seen of old ’50’s type mushroom clouds had trees down and everything flated by the shockwave of the blast. That’s what I’m going by. I look it up later, I have to catch up on things I have to get done. I been just thinking, like Emmett perhaps, doesn’t anyone see anything wrong with building, how can I put it? I think John said essentially, although I may have to review: An electron fed, spin controlled, (for the ergospheres), rotating microsingularity. At one point, because I was reading some posts of John, he said that controlling the spin of (what I thought)the microsingularity was what kept the ergospheres in line. Controlling both ‘spins’ of the microsingularities. How would you ever control the spin of a subatomic particle? All we do is blast them in the accelerators to photograph the tracks made, because you can not even see the particles, only the tracks that were left by the particles. I have seen pictures, and if it were not for the track’s photograph, there would be no picture of the particle. The particle had already decayed, or something, that only left the tracks to be photographed. That’s all anyone can get from blasting particles near the speed of light. They were black and white photographs that only showed the tracks of the particle. Someday, I have to look up those photographs, maybe they have them at a particle accelerator website. No, I was not on the Internet then, this was way back when I was in my local astronomy club. Over 11 years ago. I remember those photos. I think it was Wayne the founder of the club who brought us those photographs. Just a sorta long white-looking track where the particle had gone after smashing. Yes, if you saw them, …… spiraling off after impact.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-22-2001 01:45 AM
Here’s John’s post (part of it, don’t ask me what page):
The singularities do not create Tipler cylinders they create the same physical environment without all the mass. The same math works for both. There are two singularities. Their mass and spin is altered in order to adjust the size of the ergosphere and cause the event horizons to interact and create the gravity sinusoid. I have a basic home schooling education (k-12) and a bachelor’s degree in history.
I would like to know when humans can control the mass and spin of a singularity?
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 07:30 AM
Javier – You kill me. Haha. Basic training? You’re 21 years old and have been through basic? But you’re not in the military? What happened there? Typically, there is a minimum of three years of service required after basic training. Get kicked out for your attitude? <chuckles> Darby: Problem #1 Early on Boomer posted that the radius of effect of the time distortion field is 12 to 15 feet (Schwarzschild Radius of 4 to 5 meters). He also said that the mass of the singularities is that of a “small mountain”. I suggested 3*10^18/kg (1/2,000,000th the mass of the Earth)and he did not dispute it (though it may be smaller)… anyone see where I’m going with this? I see where you’re going – weight of the machine among other things. Also – I do not believe that this is the schwarzschild radius that he is talking about. That radius is the “blue event horizon” – and… I hate to say this, but nothing within that radius would be seen again. So… this is more like the theory behind tipler cylinders (read up on that, I’m not gonna explain it here). Basically though, you do NOT enter into the radius when traveling along a tipler cylinder. Problem #2 There’s another problem with his diagrams on your site: Page #5 (C204 Tipler Sinusoid…) Item #1 shows the twin singularities in line with the x-ray venting zone. The schematic following the photos also shows the singularities in line – and in line with the driver’s seat. It seems that the x-rays are vented directly at the driver. Where’s the problem? Hehehe. But, you have to note, that the diagram is NOT TO SCALE. Also, remember that no matter what government document you’re talking about, if it is a manual, it is GOING TO CONTAIN INACCURACIES. The government uses “lowest bid” – remember? About the “fogging of the film”… well, yes true, if it is film. Video tape is magnetic. X-rays will not affect magnetic tape in this manner – that is by fogging the video. There might be some “magenetic domains” knocked out of place by x-radiation, however, the result would be these little sparkles you see on the TV when you do not have a very good (strong) signal coming in. We call it “snow”. I’m sure folks have seen this before. I haven’t really done any calculations on the distance of the event horizon from the actual “surface” of a black hole – but, I know what I’ve read states that the event horizon is actually very close to the “surface” (if indeed it could be called a surface). Point being, we’re talking about a ‘microsingularity’. I have my doubts as to whether it can exist in the first place, but a physcist friend tells me that it is possible for such a thing and indeed, there have been discussions of doing JUST that with a linear accelerator. The problem was that they just weren’t sure if it would decay quickly or become something that might envelop the earth. There was no discussion of the “weight” of such a thing, because it is man made, and would not be a true singularity. I won’t dispute any calculations you have made regarding the Schwarzchild Radius of the microsingularity, but I will say, I believe it to be on the order of microns rather than inches or feet. Remember, we’re talking about something the size of an electron. By the way, *I* can tell electrons which way to spin and I’m not a “full fledged physcist”. So I suppose it wouldn’t be that big of a stretch to force a black hole to spin this way or that. Albert: I probably misunderstood your post. Yes, the blast radius is pretty big, but it isn’t 200 miles in any case. Remember a blast wave is basically a supersonic sound wave and it will dissapate over distance. That dissapation is based on several factors, like density of the air, temperature, how close to the ground, etc etc. I’m sure I left something out. In any case, a blast wave will be very strong very close to ground zero (the point of the ground above which the bomb is detonated). As the wave travels outward, and the distance increases, the overpressure drops quickly. I believe it is an inverse of the distance traveled. That basically means – as an example (and I’m not sure this is completely accurate, but those links I gave will tell you for sure) as the distance doubles the overpressure will be reduced by a factor of four. (It’s too early for me to do math, and I was called into work last night, so I’m doubly tired now). Damage from a nuclear bomb would be devastating, but only in the target area. That means… perhaps at distances of up to 10 miles away there would be damage, increasingly worse as you get closer and closer to ground Zero. But – as you get further and further away the damage is reduced. Basically.. I have a ranch style house – I’m seven miles from Cheynne mountain. If they hit it with a 20 megaton bomb, my house goes bye bye. My basement, however, will remain intact. It is below ground level and unless the fire ball touches the region below ground, then below ground is safe, that’s been my point all along. Hence, survivablity of nuclear attacks. Your black and white photos of tracks of particle trails was accomplished actually, very easily. I’ve performed those precise experiments without the aid of an accelerator myself. The tracks actually are drawn in a cloud of vapor – usually CO2 vapor. In fact when I did it, I used radium from a old wrist watch, and dry ice for the vapor. The trails were CLEARLY visible with the naked eye. When examined under a magnifying glass (I used a microscope) I could seen the decay as a long trail that fell into a “death spiral” as I called it. When the particles decayed completely, the spiral ended. Of course this occured VERY fast, and essentially, I saw only the result of the decay, which was the track in the fog. I did these experiments when I was 15 years old or so, in my basement lab. I had a fully stocked chemistry/physics lab when I was a kid. That stopped the day I ****ed near killed everyone in the house with clorine gas… duh… Anyway, I decided that chemistry wasn’t my bag, and went instead into electronics and physics after that.
Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-22-2001 08:30 AM
It is obvious that you think too much of yourself. Am I supposed to be scared? What I am saying is that you are wasting too much of your young life getting worked up over a post like this. You will be old soon enough and you’ll wish you did things differently. You have mentioned that you are very mature for your age. Who are you trying to convince, yourself? The overreactions are not a sign of maturity. You also seem to have a propensity to want to smash things like this time machine. Is that a sign of maturity? The answer to all those pointless things you mentioned is, no. Please channel your energy into things that will further your career. Someday you’ll thank me for this. [Edited by Mel Reckling on 03-22-2001 at 08:33 AM]
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 09:35 AM
I need to post something here… I have nothing to do with any possible military involvement in this forum. I want folks to understand that I am simply interested in this for the sake of science fiction, science fact and a very strong curiosity about time travel. John can not be reached right now. And certain other individuals appear to have been contacted. I can’t say more, but… if anyone is contacted by “military personnel” make sure you get names, ranks and any other information you can from them. Give it to me. I DO have the means to verify their existence. Now… I just put MY ass on the line here, so if someone DOES contact you.. I wanna know right away, but if you don’t have a name, rank, base of operations, serial number or anything else, then they are probably not real. Listen… if someone contacts you in email and says they are “investigating this or that” and claim to be military – ask them: 1) What branch of service? 2) What organization are you in? 3) What is your military rank and pay grade? 4) Are you a law enforcement officer? 5) Why are you contacting ME? If you get these silly-assed answers about “National Security” or whatever – then ask them: “What is YOUR need to know?” and end the conversation. You have Constitutional rights, even where National Security is involved. So, remember that. And unless and until they contact you IN PERSON and SHOW A BADGE, ID CARD or other authorizing documentation (like, let’s say a WARRANT) then they can’t even be bothering you if you do not invite them to do so. Rick
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-22-2001 11:07 AM
Darby, This stuff is for fun, remember? Traitors? Good Grief!(good grief is probably a good example of those linguistic time frame give aways) Lola [Edited by Lola Montez on 03-22-2001 at 11:18 AM]
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 11:26 AM
Mel, Some things are worth fighting for. And as you can see, others are following in. You took my wanting to smash his machine to serious. After all, it was in a joke you probably took as serious as well. And worked your self up to frenzy about it, and into a debate against me, about something you found immature in a joke . Now who’s overreacting…? I don’t think that highly of my self, how you think I probably do. I merely mentioned that (for the first time here) of what I know and can do and feel in my heart, to show you that I am mature. Not that you care, not that I care, it’s just that you were ****ing me off making unfair assumptions, while not even knowing me. And still are. I have nothing to prove to anyone, I can careless. Just don’t attack my character, because that’s personal. Btw way, how old are you? Are you speaking about maybe your life? Why do you have many regrets? I find it that sometimes people your age speak from experience… Well let me tell you something, not all 21 year olds end up with a screwed up life. I am just happened to want to do something about the world’s condition. But I guess those ideals died in you along time ago, and now accept the life you have everyday for what it is. Man, that’s sad. Maybe instead of condemning us young “whimper snappers,” you should listen to us. Our will to fight is strong (some of us) might wake you up and feel the need to do something. Sincerely, Javier C. P.S. Yeah Rick, shortly after BCT, I got medically discharged. It’s a personal matter though, and I don’t wish to talk about it thanks.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 11:29 AM
Oh come on Lola, it’s it for fun, then tell me how many times have I been attacked by you, and told that I am hostile? Please. -J.C.
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-22-2001 11:47 AM
Mel, I’ve been following this thread and it’s comic book format for some time now. I don’t think it matters if this Titor guy is from the future or from Jersey. It was fun listening to his rap. The other guy Xavier?….well. “Poor misguided Mel. You speak as if you almost knew better. Yet still you know nothing about my life, and insist that I am what you claim to be. Well I hate bragging about my self, but I see that it’s necessary. Or else you’ll continue to know nothing about me, and continue ****ing me off. So here I go…” Ok, that was a classic ‘Ming the Merciless’ opener. Guess we’ll have to set our blasters on stun. Here comes the pedigree. “Are you a 2nd Degree black belt in Karate?” No and if I was I would know that it is considered very poor behavior to tout one’s supposed skill in martial arts. “(Everyone in my family knows how to defend themselves, tradition since I am a quarter Chinese, my blood demands it).” The parenthesis is to inform us of qualifying information…as if he were saying it under his breath while delivering the Vulcan Death Grip. “Were you a League Champ in High School Wrestling?” This is to let you know that in the tradition of the WWF…”Talk’s cheap Bozo! Let’s get it on!”…and we wonder why kids in southern California are shooting… “How about going through Army Basic Training?” No thanks, already went through Marine training myself back when it WAS hard and the little pieces of army guys get caught between my teeth. “I know tough, if anything I am far from weak and like an average 21 year old.” The average 21 year old is a limp sack of s**t who worships at a mall and is more concerned with the tenderness of his feelings than the toughness of his resolve. “I am incredibly disciplined.” This guy should get together with Helen Reddy and roar. “I don’t wait another day to speak my mind and take action on things that are wrong.” Sounds like he’s running for office here. “Growing up in So.Cal I’ve seen death, I’ve seen terror, and I’ve seen people taken advantage of.” James Taylor couldn’t say it any better…gimme’ my guitar and lemme’ put on that work shirt and wide belt…. “Maybe it’s different where you were brought up, but these kinds of things I I want to do something about them.” Using two ‘I’s like that gives me a suspicion that this may be a Rastafarian masquerading as a Pastafarian.. “So pardon, for taking a stand and wanting to do something about the wrong things in life.” Well, at least he apologizes but I wish he would bring back that stand. Two wrongs don’t make a right. “You don’t see many young people doing that, and I believe it should be encouraged, not condemned.” Bring up super of American flag come in for close up as tear rolls down cheek raise music and fade to credits….. “Thank you very much; those were my 2 cents,” Final shot thanking the armed forces for their help and cooperation and the people of China for their one quarter donation of genetic material….go to black. End. [Edited by Lee Heggy on 03-22-2001 at 11:50 AM]
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-22-2001 12:14 PM
Arrow Hi, I commend your passion for what you yourself believe. I wish to point out that every other person in the world also has their own beliefs. It is when a person appears to, or even tries to foist their own beliefs on others that the problems arise. Not everyone here believes that TT is an immoral or evil technology. You know this, but my point is that you appear to be going about distributing your beleif in a counter-productive way. Your current method of discussion seems clouded by your passionate dislike for the technology and frankly, it is hard to take you serious because of that. At your web site you describe your beliefs. It was an interesting read, but it is also not in the same form of presentation as you are giving here. I would actually like to know more about your view, but you seem to view people who are older than you in a distrustful if not aggravated way. Although I believe differently than you about the application of TT technology, I would sincerely be interested in understanding your belief when presented in a less inflamed fashion. For the sake of discussion, suppose John really is a TT. What are you specifically trying to accomplish in this dialogue? If you feel others are wrong, ok, but say why others are wrong without attacking. I mean, if you want someone to understand your viewpoint, calling them sheep is a bad way to start. Phil
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-22-2001 12:16 PM
Wink I do not think that Russia attacks the US with people, just missiles. Anyway, I have no information about much of this topic. It would not do anybody any good to ask me any question. I just tried to bring up points for discussion and maybe some ‘bad’ jokes. Rick, look at it this way,: If you have enough advance warning like John said, how long would it take you to drive to Omaha (maybe an airplane)(about 611 miles)? You can ball me out in person, if this story is true. Bring some water, and a distillation unit for it, and how fast can you really drive, if enough advanced warning. You can tell me all day, ‘See, I told you so!’ or something. In fact, it true, how long would it take anyone to get to Omaha, I drove straight through to Florida, 1200 miles, only took 24 hours, on a lazy driving trip. We can all sit down and have a cup of coffee of something. Or I’ll be on my way surely, if all this is happening.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 12:20 PM
Ok, I think Lee tapped the nail on the head… once, then drove it home. LOL. Sorry, but that was funny as all get-out. But, I don’t think it is necessary for any of us to be attacking anyone. Once the forum degenerates for those who are (perhaps) trying to cause it to degenerate, no longer will communication work. In other words, as much fun as Javier, Lee, myself and others are having with the barbs and insults… they are very counter-productive. I personally apologize to Javier for my comment about his military discharge. That wasn’t any of my business and I really shouldn’t have taken it to that level. I’m sorry Javier. Your discharge is not the subject of discussion here (even though you DID throw it out to be picked on like you did, I shouldn’t have picked on it). Now – I’m not saying that we shouldn’t debate. In fact, I think a good argument is very good, however, we should stick as closely to the facts as we see them, and try to explain to each other WHY we take the tack we take on talking the way we are. I’ve tried in past posts to do so. Now – another subject. My post a few back that is entitled “Military Involvment”… please do not read anything into that. I’ve received several quite interesting messages today trying to dechiper what I said. PLEASE – There is NOTHING to dechiper. What I intended was a sort of “panic reduction” message. Sometimes in these forums (and this is not the first, nor will it be the last) people get the feeling they are being stalked by the government, or some Men in Black or something. I can’t say that doesn’t happen, but I can tell you from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE that if someone suspects you of some national security violation, they are NOT going to contact you via email. They ARE going to find out what you’re about, and might even contact you in person, but they will be legitimate law enforcement officers, not men in black, not guys in green or any other Three-Letter-Agency EXCEPT the FBI. See the FBI is the US Law Enforcement agency that has jurisdiction over national security matters within the United States and its territories. NSA ain’t coming out, CIA won’t bother with you, and if there are Men in Black, I bet you dimes to Martian quarters they aren’t Americans (or Earthlings). http://www.artbell.com/img/marsmoney.jpg So chances are, if some dufus from the Pentagon is contacting you via email, he is definately a dufus, isn’t authorized, and certainly isn’t from the Pentagon (or any other such place, Area 51, UFO Island or anywhere else). If the guy comes to your door with a badge book and says “FBI”… ask him if he has a warrant and then send him on his way if he doesn’t. Otherwise… don’t get too wrapped up in being paranoid. That’s MY job. Rick [Edited by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 at 01:38 PM]
Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-22-2001 12:27 PM
Smile Just when things started getting REALLY interesting….
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-22-2001 12:28 PM
I’m really, really sorry if my little cut-up has hurt ANYONE’S feelings or bruised the ever so delicate sensitivities of others who post here. I’m especially sorry if I’ve hacked off the Chinese. I just thought Mel was getting short shrift and…well…dang it all..Mel, dude…I LOVE YOU MAN! There, I’m glad I got that off my chest. Now I’m gonna look at those fuzzy pictures of John’s time traveling golf cart and see if I can make heads or tails out of any of it.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 12:28 PM
Lee Heggy,
Thank you very much for scrutinizing everything I said in a Howard Stern manner. But you missed my point. You asked no real questions, had no real dialogue. Just commented and ran off saying vicinities. Just like Mel.
I take it you speak like this often.
((and we wonder why kids in southern California are shooting…))
Maybe because of people like you.
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-22-2001 12:38 PM
I think I got your point quite well and if not then you just made it for me with your nasty little tag at the end of your squawk. Sorry if I stepped on your tail.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 12:41 PM
Where you been Phil? (( but my point is that you appear to be going about distributing your beleif in a counter-productive way. )) What would be a productive way for you? ((Your current method of discussion seems clouded by your passionate dislike for the technology and frankly, it is hard to take you serious because of that.)) If you knew illegal drugs were bad and could kill your kids if they tried that, wouldn’t you tell them, and hate illegal drugs? ((….. you seem to view people who are older than you in a distrustful if not aggravated way.)) When? All I did was answer Mel’s questions, and I didn’t even say every old person. I said him in particular. (( I would sincerely be interested in understanding your belief when presented in a less inflamed fashion.)) Again, how should I present it? ((… you feel others are wrong, ok, but say why others are wrong without attacking. I mean, if you want someone to understand your viewpoint, calling them sheep is a bad way to start.)) First off, haven’t I been telling people how it’s wrong? Second of all, sheep was a comment to those people that bowed to John like if he can’t be wrong. To people who wouldn’t listen to any other side but John’s. I hope this clarifies things.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-22-2001 12:48 PM
Unhappy Lee said: (and we wonder why kids in southern California are shooting…)) Javier said: “Maybe because of people like you.” I say: Ouch! Wrong forum to be discussing the child shooters, but I have looked at why it happens and come up with my own conclusions. People like Lee are not among the evidence. C’mon Javier, I am rootin’ for a constructive dialogue.
Posted by Bob Marz on 03-22-2001 12:55 PM
[1] “Some things are worth fighting for.” Chocolate, maybe, but the credibility of a self-proclaimed time traveler ln an internet message board? [2] People are drawing conclusions based sheerly on the issue of whether Titor has posted lately, concluding its an admission of guilt, knavery, chicanery, etc. It proves no such thing. The fact that you draw a flawed or hasty conclusion or project causal connections has nothing to do with reality itself. There are all sorts of legitimate reasons why he might not have posted lately. [3] I think Javier sees himself as Don Quixote, the man of La Mancha, defending us “sheep,” and deluded “followers” of the ‘Pie Pipper'(sic), ie, the guardian alpha-male patrolling the edge of the herd for danger. I see him as a good guy too, but one who because of tenacity and obsession, has singlehandedly beaten the funfactor of this thread to a bloody pulp.
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-22-2001 12:55 PM
Thanks for the vote of confidence there Phil. Xavier also said that,
“I take it you speak like this often.”
and then in the very next post replicates my form of posting. (which isn’t patented and used by thousands of others as well) Imitation is a form of flattery though and I’ll take it for what it’s worth. I’m logging off and leaving now (not running). I’ve got to go eat a burger before they are outlawed.
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-22-2001 01:01 PM
Jeez, you guys, I wish you wouldn’t encourage him. Now we will never be able to move on. Very funny, though, Lola
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 01:25 PM
Phil, Ouch? It wasn’t me who started. I had to finish it though… You support the person who just attacked me by defending his statements. But don’t wish to answer my questions? Talk about being counter-productive… Where’s your credibility now? Where do you stand? I thought you wanted me to say where people are wrong. Which is just what I did… And have been doing from the start. Any further questions? -Javier C.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 01:25 PM
Is Javier or Time Travel the subject of discussion now?
Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-22-2001 01:31 PM
Thanks guys for coming to my defense. In response to your post. I am 47 years old and yes I was once 21. Regrets I’ve had a few, but than again too few to mention(thanks Mr. Sinatra). Didn’t Al Bundy once score 4 touchdowns in a single game in high school and still wind up a shoe salesman? I know I’m a nobody, but I’ll ask you do you own a Porsche? I do. Do you own your own business? I do. Have you ever shot under par in golf? I have 8 times. Do you own your home? I do. About 15 years ago I was one of the top 50 Toyota salesman in the country. The point is none of this matters. We all have our own accomplishments. The only thing I’m apparently good at is getting under some people’s skin on this post to post BBS. By the time I was 21 I had been to Europe twice. Once made it back from Amsterdam with only 20 bucks in my pocket and having to hitch through N.Y.C. The important thing in life is to make the most of your experiences and to listen to the advice of people more experienced than yourself. I guess I’m doomed to be an old Fuddy Duddy. I feel a truce is in order. We are way off topic and they’ll probably pull the plug on us at any time. Let me know how you feel.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 01:31 PM
Rick, I don’t know what’s up with some of these people. It could be anything. It could be the fact that John isn’t here. Maybe now that Darby is perhaps brining people to realize what they believed John to be, has upsetted them a bit. Or maybe they hate us, for being apart of driving John away, I don’t know. Those are my guesses though.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 01:37 PM
Sure Mel, I guess we can have a truce. Even though I have more to say . But remember, I had no body supporting me, I am half your age, and someday I will own a house. All in due time. Truly, Javier C. P.S. Actually I am only 20 years old. My birthday is in 3 weeks . [Edited by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 at 01:40 PM]
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 01:45 PM
Javier, It isn’t “these people”… it’s you my friend. It wasn’t John that brought out the worst in any of us, it was each of us in turn, turning up the heat. You have a way of upsetting people, and quickly. When they feel the must defend whatever it is you’ve upset them about, they come back with all guns a-blazing. Seriously, you do have a problem with time travelers – so it seems, and you’re dead set on proving it. We all understand that, but here, the point it moot. We don’t care too much whether or not you like them, we only care to prove the truth. Unfortunately, none of us, except John can do that right now, and he isn’t around. I sort of suspected he vanish quietly – and he apparently has. So… rather than everyone discussing the points of being 21/43 or 56, we should be discussing the data we DO have, pictures and otherwise, and trying to piece together what little we know. If John is real, and he wants a person to observe, he will let us know. Note that it is my opinion he won’t want us to, and if he DOES provide a video, obviously none of us are going to believe it. Which, by the way, John stated several times in the beginning – “I do not WANT you to believe” – I think were his words. The bickering accomplishes nothing, except to escalate a war that has no purpose. Testosterone has its place, but it ain’t here. Rick
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-22-2001 01:53 PM
I admit I am confused. I may have to consult “Doctor Who”, President of Galifry, President of the High Council of ‘Time Lords’ and ask him a few questions. He’s usually off though fighting humans mortal enemey, the ‘Darleks’.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-22-2001 01:53 PM
Post “What would be a productive way for you?” Well, since you ask, I would attempt to describe my view in a clear and descriptive manner. I have read all your posts and your web site. I still do not understand *specifically* what your view IS based on. You may have stated these things in previous posts, but overall the tone you take in presenting has made it difficult to assemble an accurate picture of what it is you are trying to say. The objective in presentations is to make it EASY for the ‘viewer’ to understand. The rhetoric confuses your message. “If you knew illegal drugs were bad and could kill your kids if they tried that, wouldn’t you tell them, and hate illegal drugs? ” I do know why certain drugs are illegal. I am aware that people die from them sometimes. I had a friend who went on a research trip on homelessness and lived the life and tried heroin and died. I have no kids, but should I be so graced as to have them someday, I would raise them knowing that I am the one man they can always count on to care about them. I would encourage the discussion of anything, no matter the subject by not violating trust issues involved in personal discussions. If said child were to somehow become involved with the drugs, I would not hate the drugs, I would find the distributor of said drugs to children and at the very least quietly talk to my local PD Detectives about removing said distributor from society. As for said child, I would desire to discover why they felt the need to do illegal drugs, but not freak on the child so they do not shut down and hate their elders. “All I did was answer Mel’s questions, and I didn’t even say every old person. I said him in particular.” Sorry. I was a tad too broad perhaps, but there is a valid point to make. Sometimes people state things in such a way that they themself do not see how others are reading\hearing it. The way I read your comment was indeed toward Mel when viewed on its own, but collectively your demeanor seems fairly anti-toward people you do not know personally and may happen to be older than yourself. “First off, haven’t I been telling people how it’s wrong?” Perhaps you have, but it seems to come across as if to say *because I say so* “…sheep was a comment to those people that bowed to John like if he can’t be wrong. To people who wouldn’t listen to any other side but John’s.” Again, Its all in how you state things. The way in which you stated the sheep comment literally implied that everyone else were sheep. Again, you may not see that implication, but it IS there. “I hope this clarifies things” Me too. I almost admire the enthusiasm you show, but as I see it, when enthusiasm is coupled with a hatred of something it becomes a crusade. The crusades were over long ago. I urge you to re-evaluate your feeling of hatred, but I will not suggest you rethink your view. Hate is such an ugly emotion that it consumes ones soul. I am not intending to offend you Javier and it is not my goal to help everyone in the world, but you have such a determined passion, it seems a waste to see that consumed with the hatred. I hated someone before. Turns out, I had been harming myself by hating that person. They were external to me so I moved on with life and although I still Strongly dislike them, I do not throw myself into their path on purpose and am a pretty happy guy.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 02:40 PM
Phil, Your empathic nature is understandable. But I cannot always be concern by how someone will interpret what I say. I don’t claim to be a people person; I never said I would be politically correct. I said I would do what’s right, and bring out the truth. Which is what we are all looking for, and doing? So my way is different. Is there a standard I have to follow? You can get the same results in many different ways. I suppose being offence, instead of defense or neutral is what most people prefer that I be. That’s very nice, but it wouldn’t fit my nature. Action if more my forte, defense might be another mans way of solving problems. And some are neutral (pacifists) who don’t try, but get things done somehow. Each way has it’s own merit. Like many others things in this world (religions, schools, governments). I choose action though. -Javier C.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-22-2001 02:54 PM
Arrow I was not trying to change you. I was simply offering advice on a more effective way to get your message understood. If force is your way, so be it, but be prepared to be misunderstood. No harm no foul. No disrespect. Take care Javier. I believe you have peoples best interest at heart, but I also believe you are taking the hard path to communication.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 03:10 PM
My way is not so much force, but actually doing something. Taking action. Force by it’s self sounds really bad. And I guess that’s were I was misunderstood. Oh well, thanks for understanding . I’m glad we could all come to a resolution. -Javier C.
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-22-2001 03:29 PM
This thread has gone south. Rick, I think you should be the one to start a new thread on TT where we can carry on our previous discussion and leave these guys to worry over JC’s communication style (or lack thereof). [Edited by Lola Montez on 03-22-2001 at 03:32 PM]
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 06:10 PM
And what previous discussion would that be? Supporting a man who claims to be from the future? Ookkaayy. -J.C.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-22-2001 06:19 PM
Rick, What Boomer has described so far, even though he uses the term Tipler Sinusoid, isn’t the description of a Tipler cylinder. Professor Tipler describes the cylinder as having 10 solar masses or more and squeezed into an infinitely dense and infinitely long cylinder – which is longitudionally spun at about one billion RPM’s. I suppose that if you were interested in verification of Boomer’s science that you could go right to the source, Dr. Frank Tipler, Tulane University, for an interview. Ask him his thoughts on Boomer’s device – afterall, its Dr. Tipler’s science: http://www.math.tulane.edu/~tipler/ Address: Department of Mathematics Tulane University New Orleans, LA 70118 Email: tipler@math.tulane.edu Office: Gibson 305 Phone: (504) 862-3449 FAX: (504) 865-5063 Oh…the Schwarzschild Radius of about 1.33 meters (4 ft). I hope that Boomer doesn’t hang his left arm out the window because it might be left behind in 2036 when he fires up that puppy. I doubt that you’ll get to interview Boomer. I wanted to know the ET of his trip because of some comments he posted at various times. He’s stated that its very important for the machine to be absolutely still – it makes a “timelike trip” and not a “spacelike trip”. He also says that the traveler is exposed to 1.5 to 2.0 g’s of accelleration and needs an oxygen supply. At 2 g accelleration you will be traveling just a tad faster than a Chevy pick-up in short order (about one year to reach light speed).
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-22-2001 08:30 PM
Talking Do You suppose DARBY, that IF John is a TT, that the Tipler cyclinder he describes could simply be a revision on the current one that Mr. Tipler has? I mean, if he is from 2036, it could be a revised schematic. Lola: Todays side trip with JC was actually healthy for the thread by my view, for there has been contempt brewing for a while and perhaps that released some tensions. For my part, I was trying to offer a method of communicating to JC because I am sincerely interested in all perspectives given. His included. I dunno if he will provide a detailed and less ‘action’ aka force oriented dialogue (teasing JC), but we shall see. That is what makes it pertinent to the thread.
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-22-2001 09:38 PM
Phil, I certainly applaud your effort and admire you for having the kind of heart that makes that effort. But I think it is obvious by now that no headway is possible. It starts to detract from the other good stuff going on here. To the board- Why do you think John has gone off the board? Is it because Darby’s analysis made him uncomfortable or could it have been Rick’s serious offer to film the event? (or neither) I don’t think packing would be taking every waking moment as there is not much room in that car. There was another alleged TT around awhile ago that left due to lack of interest. He claims to be from the far future. It would be interesting to see where our discussion might go with a different scenario for the future. I wanted to make a point regarding Darby’s treason suggestion made earlier. Every revolution starts with an act of treason. History is written by the victors. We have many hero’s in our past that would be considered villians if the English had won the war.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 10:02 PM
I had a few ideas why John might not be here. About 2 pages ago today . John feels the pressure he’s been getting in this thread by someone he didn’t expect. He was well comfortable when it was just me being the only one opposing him. But now, that’s all changed. We all know John wouldn’t leave without saying good-bye. He likes the attention; he likes people to think he’s interesting. Right Pamela? Typical Machiavellian behavior if you ask me. -Javier C.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-22-2001 10:46 PM
He was out of town.
Posted by Barbara Clements on 03-22-2001 11:01 PM
Well, my guess is he’ll be back. In the meantime can someone explain what a tipler sinusoid field is?
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-22-2001 11:16 PM
The thoughts fromt the ‘Great Nuthin’ which will prove nuthin’. While I never followed through on physics and just do not remember it, I leave the calcs to someone else. My whole thought, and I will have to do a lot of reviewing, is even if a person (John) shows up with a device claiming to travel in time, something just bothers me about the convenience of it. To me all things that were built needed a boost of technology. Nothing was convenient. Now I admit that producing a microsinglarity would be significant, and clever engineering would help, but still I feel that it just does not produce a time machine. I have to check on the theory of “why” that would produce ‘time travel’. I must admit that I am not trying to solve how to produce a time machine, which to me with all of the math and thinking just ends up being in a different ball park then where the ball was even hit. That’s all I have right now, two cents. But if your really convinced that this produces time travel, I read about it.
Posted by Barbara Clements on 03-22-2001 11:35 PM
One thought did just occurr to me, and I’m not saying this as proof of anyone claiming to be a time travelor, but more or less as an interesting socialolical point, no one believed Jesus was who he was either.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-22-2001 11:35 PM
I’ll try to be brief. At first, I thought ‘smart rocks’ sounded like a good idea. Now, I do not. The only practical purpose of having a ‘smart rock’ to me is to shoot down an incoming missile to keep the missile from reaching the target. Leaving nuclear missiles in the ocean or exploding the missile high above, perhaps in space, may just wreck the ozone layer or something, especially, leaving corroded nuclear missiles in the ocean. They will corrode. They do find bombs from WWII yet.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-23-2001 12:06 AM
Pamela, How do you know? Is he back then? I guess we should hear from him real soon . Barbara, so what’s your point? John is a real Time Traveler because some people don’t believe him? J.C.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 01:29 AM
Okay, I admit that somewhere I am not up to par with these theories. But one question seems to not have been asked, and if I missed it I apologize. Interesting theories, except “Who or what was the first time traveler?” I am not debating whether John is real or not, nor if the theory supports time travel. Before humans went into space, I think, if I ever think I remember, monkeys went into space. I find that it would be dishearting if all of a sudden, “we need a human operator of this device, because a human must go in order to get back.” I think of a moral, ethical people, that some type of remote controls and initial flights would be needed. Frankly, this type of time travel, even with 100% certainty, scares the “heck” out of me. Is anyone sure that they would indeed volunteer for a “All of the theory works out, but…. we won’t really be sure until you come back from your TT trip.” And by the way, have a nice day! Just imagining what going on this trip really means.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-23-2001 07:47 AM
Phil, I’m assuming that if what Boomer says is true then the science would be an advancement on what Dr. Tipler has proposed. However Dr. Tipler isn’t in 2036 he’s here in 2001 and should have some ideas about what Boomer purports to be true of Tipler-based science. Surely you’re not suggesting that if Albert Einstein was alive today that there would be no value in seeking his opinion of Boomer’s GR ideads, are you?
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-23-2001 07:59 AM
Arrow Javier: About Barbaras comment, she states that” I’m not saying this as proof of anyone claiming to be a time travelor”. It seems clear enough that she was only drawing the conclusion that Jesus was not believed to be Jesus and John may not be believed to be a TT. Yes I agree it leads to an assumption, but moreso she seems to clearly bring up the fact that we really do not know and will not know unless something happens to prove it or disclaim it. James: Yesterday was a day that was more or less devoted to Javier. I do not wish to offend you, but really, Javier has his point of view too. I would agree that his manner of conveying that message has at times been caustic, but your attack on him actually seems worse than his ‘action’aka force oriented method of communication. The frustration is understood by everyone I think, but isn’t the action of telling him “leave and go back to your website” a tad extreme? Everyone: Yesterday was indeed a day that centered less on topic than might be desired, in the words of an infamous person,”cant we all just, get along?” 🙂 j/k Really though, I am curious if anyone believes John is a TT based on faith, since as of yet there is no concrete proof. I ask this out of curiosity and request that if anyone responds to this that everyone simply address this, if they wish, without attacking. Yes Javier, I am asking you too (playin with ya, J)
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-23-2001 08:07 AM
Talking Well, Darby, I think I overlooked the possible value of talking to Mr. Tipler and discussing the model that John has brought forth. Who knows, may that is how Mr Tipler revises his model. Would that not be bizarre if someone brought the John design to Mr Tiplers attention and thus caused the Time Travel Technology to advance? “Surely you’re not suggesting that if Albert Einstein was alive today that there would be no value in seeking his opinion of Boomer’s GR ideads, are you?” Oh No! 🙂 Al was a facinating a brilliant man. Personally I rate Schrodinger a tad higher on the list, but not by much. I actually suspect that Al would be pertly opposed to the concepts brought up here. Maybe I am wrong, but Al only desired to go just so far into quantum physics. therefore rendering his opinion interesting but not necesarily pertinent. Am I wrong?
Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-23-2001 08:18 AM
Smile If time travel is to be achieved using the methods described by John, where is the mass coming from that would be required to achieve it? I believe Darby touched on this earlier, but I have not seen a satisfactory explanation given. Supposing John is who he said he is, what business is it of anybody here to question his “motives”? I see this as no different, in this aspect, as it is for anyone of us to take a trip across town or across state lines. Since John is an American, he is legally allowed to move about as he feels as long as he is not breaking any laws. Had he been from another country, then I suppose he would have had to report to Immigration. I know of no laws against time travel, per se. I do know of some regimes that have existed, though, where freedom of movement by individuals was not allowed…”Show me your papers!”…and it was not in the United States of America. Darby, I do not necessarily regard John’s purported actions in the upcoming conflict to have been treasonous. They MAY have been, but I would have to know more details to make that determination. By the way, Darby, I picture you as about 55 to 60 years of age, working as a university professor with patches on the elbows of your jacket and loafers on your feet, occasionally imbibing on a pipe filled with excellent and aromatic tobacco. You enjoyed reading Sherlock Holmes as a child, and fancy yourself as a modern day sleuth of his ilk. You are highly intelligent, as well as being very popular with your students. I do not believe you have ever married or had children, as you were gilted by the one and only true love of your life while still a youth. Being the romantic that you are, it was at that low point in your life that you decided to devote yourself to your academic pursuits. You also drive a two seated European convertible. How did I do? (By the way, I would have loved to have had you as one of my professors, too!) [Edited by David R Ferguson on 03-23-2001 at 08:25 AM]
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-23-2001 08:18 AM
First, I wish to apologise for perhaps stirring the pot with a bit too much vigor yesterday..
I thought that the possibility of time travel was pretty much accepted since in a way we are all time travelers but only in one direction and at a universal speed common to all of us. The thought that through mechanical contrivance we could go in several different directions at different rates is a fascinating conjecture.
I believe that John Titor (the real name or gender is irrelevant) is a real person. As to the possibility that he/she/it may be from some elsewhen I have my doubts but I will allow for a tiny crack of that possibility to exist.
Why such a person would spend precious time here on this BBS is unfathomable to me.
It would be like going back to the 1930s and listening in on a party-line telephone. It seems apparent that unless he/she/it comes back and makes further comment there isn’t much point to this thread and a new general discussion of temporeal movement is in order.
[This is a very good point. Why expose yourself to problems, when you really don't need the aggrivation. -Metallicman.]
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-23-2001 08:24 AM
Lola, Thanks for the kind words. And you’re right, every revolution begins with a traitor’s act. And is then fought by 19 year old kids. Love to talk it over with you – lunch at the Red Barn, SY. Everyone should understand that I don’t really consider Boomer to be a traitor or a murderer principally because I don’t believe his story and secondarily because his online persona appears to be that of a decent person. What I attempted to point out is that the totality of a circumstance should be considered in any analysis of rhetoric. As Boomer spun the yarn he made some statements about his political alignment that needed to be addressed. There’s more yet to be considered. For instance: Let’s ‘jus ‘spose once again that its all true. Boomer is a TT, a Major in the military (or former Major now under civilian contract)of the regional nation of Florida (or whatever that region is called)and our government is the enemy state in the war to begin in 2004. Let’s also ‘jus ‘spose that Rick really is a former Military/DoD intelligence operative (and shooter)of that enemy state. Would Boomer, a trained field grade military officer allow Rick within 1000 miles of his country’s device? If Rick turned out to be a “not-so-Ex” spook and managed to snatch the device with a little help from his friends what would prevent we, the enemy state, from returning the machine to 2036 with a suitcase nuclear device onboard? Boomer has rather flippantly answered questions at times by saying that we can’t affect his personal timeline. While that may be true a retalliatory strike by us would affect someone’s timeline. A 22 kt nuke would mess up their entire afternoon if it went off in the lab upon the return of the machine. Again, its a great topic for discussion but Boomer isn’t a TT. No country, past-present-future, would trust such a powerful strategic device to Clodpole for the purpose of mixing both a business trip and a personal vacation. For the techno-military geeks: Have you ever heard of an Air FOrce officer who took out an SR-71 Blackbird on a vacation trip – kind of on loan from DIA/NSA for a few months. Same-same here. Boomer may feel that a flip answer is OK, but his handlers wouldn’t be quite so confident that the machine wouldn’t be snatched. Note for Rick: I agree with your earlier post that some sloppy detail work on military hardware or manuals is common. PRC-25’s, PRC-75’s and other common communications hardware are old and utilitarian and treated roughly. Was sloppy workmanship and detailing on ICBM’s, LA class nuke boats and nuclear devices also your experience? The machine and manual wouldn’t be common grunt equipment that get humped in the boonies and tossed into the hooch at night. Its two year old (in 2036) cutting edge strategic technology developed by GE and CERN (cyclorton) and cost billions of dollars. Is it your experience that that sort of hardware is treated with the same disdain as a field radio? [Edited by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-23-2001 at 08:28 AM]
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-23-2001 08:45 AM
Cool Darby: “what would prevent we, the enemy state, from returning the machine to 2036 with a suitcase nuclear device onboard? ” In your described ‘jus’ suppose scenario I had a couple thoughts that might bring caution to the possibility of ANY authority sending a suitcase in time. If I recall correctly, John stated he has to travel back to 1975 and then back to 2036. First, if I am correct with this statement, The machine would have to stop in ’75 and it would stay there without a person in attendance thus blowing up somewhens 1975. Second, do we know if a person has to be in the ‘driver seat’ of the Chevy to operate the machine? If so, a suitcase nuke and a operator both go boom, thus a suicide mission. Also, Suppose an authority did that suitcase trick. Suppose it gets to 2036. There will be a lot of surprised people in Florida. Well, ‘what if’ the world line that received the suitacse happened to be ours when we reach 2036. OOPS! Just a thought or two. BTW, If 4 out of 5 Time Travellers SUFFER from diarhea, does the other one enjoy it?
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-23-2001 09:10 AM
So……We have progressed to talking and questioning John to thinking of what would happen if you sent a suitcase bomb back to John’s world, blowing him up along with his machine and parts of the worldline he would be on at the time…possibly ours???? ….Do you still wonder why you never see any time travelers? [Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-23-2001 at 09:13 AM]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 09:28 AM
Does anyone wonder if we will even make it through this time? Maybe, John, is more adept at not being caught, then we think. I beginning to think about the story, that it is not entirely been written by John, himself. That a group of people covered the story. I also wondered if John was a Russian, I would submit, although I do not know, that there are people in this country, that should not be here, and not poor people from another nation. Tied to embassies of foreign nations, I think the US does the same thing. What would be the purpose of sending a suitcase bomb explosive through time? You people are getting dangerous. Is that the use of a time machine? Someone better bow to Javier than, because certainly other people would be fighting to not allow time travel. I think most of the time, there must be continual civil wars in the future by opposing groups.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-23-2001 09:29 AM
Question The suitcase thing is a suppose-it scenario that I cannot see anyone saying “oh yeah great idea” about. Seems that by and large the posts have been quite thorough and inquisitive, but it is odd that John has not posted since the 18th. I saw your post about him being out of town. Does that mean he is back in town? If so, there are loads of questions still to be asked. As for the way the thread has spun toward its current path. Consider a classroom of 4th graders. If the teacher leaves the classroom, does the class atmosphere take a spin toward another direction until the teacher returns to bring things back to the original direction? Yes. I am not using the above example as a literal application to this threads posters or John, just the concept. Please consider that before frowning at the current status. I am certain everyone would be quite pleased if john came on and fielded the concerns of those here. He did start the thread and it would be appropriate if he continued his dialogue or said thats it, time to skip the world lines. If you have read back…except for yesterday…there have been many good questions left unanswered going way back. In fact I cannot find a single response from John regarding anything I have asked, so I have not been attempting to ask anything. Rather I have continued the interaction with others here. If you feel that a TT would not come here because someone chooses to speculate on other motives that are in the realm of possibilty to stretched possibility, then so be it, but look close and see the suitcase stuff for what it is. A speculation. Did anyone actually imply the application of that speculation? Not that I saw. Respectfully. Phil
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 09:43 AM
But Phil, it is an interesting twist. Star Trek never addressed questions like “If we have matter dispacement, we’ll beam a bomb aboard”. All the tech from these made-up worlds were so different that no species could do that. Still, there are ‘laws of nature’ that are all the same. How does ‘tech’ remain different if all ‘laws of nature’ are the same? That does include all species in the Universe to me, so far. We suppose that species would be different somehow, but in the end because of the ‘laws of nature’ that may not be true. How do we know that John is not a alien? At which point do humans go a different way with tech. In the future, if a war happened, if anyone mentioned doing certain tech, I think witch hunts would be common, not that tech, never mention it again, kind of life.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 09:46 AM
John, are you receiving smileys yet! Smile, smile, smile, lots of smileys!
Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-23-2001 09:49 AM
Pamela: Nice to have you back! I concur with a lot of what Phil just posted. I, too, have asked several questions to John and none of them was ever answered. Maybe he did not consider them “deep” enough to reply to, but I felt that my questions were not of the sort that could be construed as a means for me to gain an unfair advantage over someone else. For example, I asked if the NCAA still held a baskeball tournament, and if so, was it still in its current format. As for Darby’s comment regarding placing a suitcase sized nuclear device in John’s time machine, that appears to be a good and appropriate point in which to discuss. It falls within the realm of philosphical and moral implications that have previously appeared in this thread. I have not really been able to place my finger on just what it is that Javier has found so offensive about time travel in general, but this is a scenario that might explain it. Maybe Javier fears Time Travelers doing the reverse and bringing back nuclear (or worse) devices into our time and setting them off in an act of terrorism. Anyway, I am glad back to have you back in the discussion, Pamela. Do you think John will resurface here?
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-23-2001 10:03 AM
Arrow I didn’t bring up the scenario of the suitcase. I did try and explain why I felt it was pointless for anyone to try it though. I see no error in logic there. You mention Star Trek. In the Wrath of Kahn, was there not a Genesis device that Kahn wanted to use as a weapon? That is a tech spec example that uses well intended science for less nobel causes. The difference is that in that movie, Khan Intended to do his scheme. Here it was not an intended action. Just speculation on what a governing body could contemplate doing. Of course from my current viewpoint, the theories and discussion here are facinating, but still fantasy role play unless that role play becomes real thru solid proof. I can only speak for myself, but I do not wish harm to anyone. Not a sole. As to John specifically, he has not harmed me or my loved ones, so why should I desire to harm him. I would like it if he would come back for a bit and at least properly terminate the discussion from his part. It is irritating when someone starts something and then simply disappears. Have you seen the number of people who have browsed this thread? My god, theres been tens of thousands of browses and well over 700 posts. That seems to say something about the interest level. Seems that overall, everyone here would like to continue this discussion, but the central figure in the debate is MIA.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 10:20 AM
I’m to wish no harm on anyone. I am just referring to the storyline. Let’s suppose its true, then: “Once the nuclear button is pressed, humanity breaks down.” It may never recuperate. New Rule from God, perhaps: “Thou shall keep thy finger off of the nuclear button, humans never again gain for hundreds of year.” Then such a tech as TT, would be a ‘forbidden’ tech. Well, I’ll have to think of something more pleasant. John stated that he did not understand why people would stay in the cities if nuclear war was immenient, this may be the reason.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 10:51 AM
To answer John’s question somewhere along this thread: Humans just have a better life coming up with techs that help humans out to deal with overpopulation and other issues than developing techs that lead the world into madness.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-23-2001 11:06 AM
“John stated that he did not understand why people would stay in the cities if nuclear war was immenient, this may be the reason.”
I actually think that the majority of people stay in the city because the emphasis of lifestyle has shifted away from the rural. I cannot count how many people have told me that they could not even contemplate living anywhere but L.A., for example. Additionally, I also come across many people who are insulated from real news by their own choice. Just those two attitudes alone can account for many of the people who would choose to stay in a city.
I live in suburbia. Downtown L.A. is 35 miles from me as the crow flies. There is the Seal Beach Naval Weapons Station so close to me that I can just about see their fences. The only reason I am here is because my wife will not move out of the region. I would prefer a rural setting. Life has choices and because I love my wife, I stay. Rest assured that if/when it comes time to flee, I will be doing so, bringing her along by force if necessary. I am certain many will stay. Why? Lots of reasons, but I only will name the two.
It is pointless to me to continue speculating on if John is a TT unless additional compelling documents are conversational exchanges occur, for if nothing else, he has provided a discusion that allowed us all to explore many themes that spur from future thinking. His list of suggestions are logical and the entire dialogue has been entertaining to boot.
Ever heard of classes that entertain while teaching? Comedy traffic school is an example. Of course this is not a school and John is not a teacher, but the principle is the same.
[Edited by Phil Fiord on 03-23-2001 at 11:08 AM]
Posted by Barbara Clements on 03-23-2001 11:40 AM
Well, like with Jesus and his situation, I was just thinking how frustrating to the person it must be if it IS true. Suddenly everything is frozen, you have to defend your arrival, and that becomes the whole thing. After all, everyone else walks in a room and advances from that point, but if you doubt the reality of the person coming in the room its like you never get to be in the room until you can prove your going through the door is allowed. I always thought it must’ve been frustrating to be Jesus, (saying here he was what he said he was) and spend all your time having to defend your claim, and not get on to the reason you came and all. Very aggravating.
Posted by James Boley on 03-23-2001 11:41 AM
Darby sure seemed to hit the nail on the head with John Titor. He came towards the end of Johns ‘reign’ over his followers. Is Darby John Titor?
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-23-2001 11:54 AM
I sure hope not, I like the way Darby thinks . -J.C. P.S. If I don’t come back today, it’s because somethings gone wrong with my computer upgrade. C-ya.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 12:03 PM
The purpose of John’s visit is that we help them solve their problems in the future, that’s why he is here. I do not know if we can do that without being a comedy routine to him. Certainly, if everyone bowed to everyone, like the Japanense do then no human may be talking. Taking it to the ridiculous, everyone be bowing the rest of their lives. Living in a major city is to me another point of ridiculous, people live there for the greatness of the city, then everyone decides that they really rather be actually at times somewhere else, away from a big city. The only reason to be in a ‘big city’ is to feel more alive. I admit I am dumbfounded at this point. I can not perhaps help John with his problems in the future, and I can not help anyone in this world now, but still I must be, somehow.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 12:50 PM
I’ll propose another question to John. I like the validity of the TV show “StarGate”. You need six points of reference for a cube and a seventh reference, the point of origin, before you can travel through a wormhole type time travel. May be that I am missing something here. Further thought required. The Universe is central to our existence, but we are central to the Universe. Yet we have infinite multiple ‘worldlines’ of all time where we are ‘yet’ not a ‘God’ but are a ‘God’. Interesting.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-23-2001 03:45 PM
James, An interesting thought – Boomer and me – the same person. Imagine the philosophical thought games that I’d be playing with myself. Fortunately for me, I’m not him (I think he’d agree). All I posed the question of sending a device back to Boomer’s lab in the machine from the perspective of his handlers. From their perspective we are the enemy upon whom they made war. Would they be willing to risk even the smallest of possibility of having their machine fall into enemy hands and incur some sort of retaliatory strike? Nuke, biological, chemical, or just a healthy dose of C4? Imagine the result of blowing up the device with ordinary explosives. I don’t know if I’d want two 3*10^18 kg black holes auguring into my back yard. Does it really make sense that his handlers would authorize a personal vacation with their billion-dollar machine? It is, after all, a machine. Machines can break down. It’s the result of a program that went live in 2034. It has a computer – software, by definition, has bugs. Last I heard we still have burglars in Florida. While he’s been hanging around some hype could steal his IBM 5100. It may be a piece of junk but would a junkie know that? When your nose is running and your skin is crawling and you want that smacked-back feeling any port in the storm will do to get a fix – even Boomer’s IBM 5100. If the machine were that important to his handlers would they authorize a personal vacation and risk losing the computer? I dunno – how about you?
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-23-2001 04:02 PM
((Pamela. Do you think John will resurface here?))
I think he is planning on it but he said he will be unable to address everything.. I don’t think he has time. I don’t want to speak for him though maybe he will come on here and tell you himself.
Albert, it is interesting that you mentioned “StarGate.” That was one of my favorite movies. I thought of that right away when they spoke of sending a bomb back to John’s lab.
they did the same in that science fiction movie they snuck a nuclear device back through the stargate to blow up the other world if they found life on it.
Did you see the movie “contact” with Jodie Foster? That is another one of my favorite movies.
John and Darby are NOT the same person. maybe Javier and Darby are the same??? hehehehehe
[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-23-2001 at 04:11 PM]
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-23-2001 04:15 PM
Pamela, If John IS a real TT…he will have time, all the time in the world.
[Not true. He has limitations determined by destination target conditions. -Metallicman.]
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-23-2001 04:26 PM
Lee, I think that is a misconception. that a time traveler has “all the time in the world.” That might be true if his machine could be operated in that manner. but my understanding is it cannot. once you operate the machine and you leave the worldline can you return to the same one? You can only arrive and leave at certain times . the conditions have to be right.
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-23-2001 04:51 PM
Pamela, You may be right about that. I just don’t know but I do find it very interesting that although none of us are currently time traveling except in our own lives we have somehow managed to divise rules of the road for doing so.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-23-2001 04:58 PM
“none of us are currently time traveling except in our own lives…” How can you be so sure? Maybe there are others…..
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-23-2001 05:09 PM
I have just received another picture from John to post. I will send it to Rick Donaldson to post on his board. It is titled “final proof?” Hopefully he will post it soon. sincerely, Pamela
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-23-2001 05:13 PM
Well I suppose nothing is what it seems if you can warp time and space so you’ve got me there but I have a pretty solid feeling that most if not all of us are very firmly docked in the present. Thanks for keeping me loose.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-23-2001 05:25 PM
Thanks Pamela, I’ll take that as a compliment, but I’m not Darby . Btw, Lee brought up something interesting I’d like to talk about. “Rules of the Road” as we know them, apply for everyone’s safety. How I have been saying all along, as far as we know they are no rules for Time Travelers. Exploiting the past, and its unknowing people is unethical and convenient for them. For all we know, they could be invisible right now, and orchestrating our lives to their will. Anyone ever think about that? Well we all should… Consider the possibilities that Time Travelers are opportunist, who wish nothing more then to help them selves. I have a lot to say on this matter, but I’ll spare you all the rhetoric… For the moment . Anyway’s, speaking of movies, check out this website and it’s trailer, I like it . http://www.finalfantasy.com -Javier C.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-23-2001 07:20 PM
Daryby: Let’s ‘jus ‘spose once again that its all true. Boomer is a TT, a Major in the military (or former Major now under civilian contract)of the regional nation of Florida (or whatever that region is called) and our government is the enemy state in the war to begin in 2004. Let’s also ‘jus ‘spose that Rick really is a former Military/DoD intelligence operative (and shooter) of that enemy state. Would Boomer, a trained field grade military officer allow Rick within 1000 miles of his country’s device? If Rick turned out to be a “not-so-Ex” spook and managed to snatch the device with a little help from his friends what would prevent we, the enemy state, from returning the machine to 2036 with a suitcase nuclear device onboard? Excellent! That was, I suppose one of the main reasons I tried to point out several things, including the fact that 1) he won’t let me be “3rd party” 2) Anyone on this board might be a spook with just such a motive (though I SERIOUSLY doubt it). Also Darby: Note for Rick: I agree with your earlier post that some sloppy detail work on military hardware or manuals is common. PRC-25’s, PRC-75’s and other common communications hardware are old and utilitarian and treated roughly. Was sloppy workmanship and detailing on ICBM’s, LA class nuke boats and nuclear devices also your experience? The machine and manual wouldn’t be common grunt equipment that get humped in the boonies and tossed into the hooch at night. Its two year old (in 2036) cutting edge strategic technology developed by GE and CERN (cyclorton) and cost billions of dollars. Is it your experience that that sort of hardware is treated with the same disdain as a field radio? Right- Well, since I never dealt with ICBMs, LA Class nuke subs, and other nuclear devices personally, I can’t answer that. The truth is though, that all military manuals have errors, even on ships. One last thing… along these lines: For the techno-military geeks: Have you ever heard of an Air Force officer who took out an SR-71 Blackbird on a vacation trip – NEVER.. which is the first reason I considered John a fraud but just never stated it.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-23-2001 07:38 PM
Excellent critical thinking on that ex-military scenario Rick . -J.C. P.S. Anyone here a computer tech? I have a computer problem .
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-23-2001 08:01 PM
Pam said: I have just received another picture from John to post. I will send it to Rick Donaldson to post on his board. It is titled “final proof?” Hopefully he will post it soon. As she stated, I have recieved said photograph and it is very, very interesting. I find it almost funny in a way. But, before I tell you about it, let me tell you something even funnier – as in “Strange”. A few days ago, someone here on this list began to receive unsolicited email claiming they were from the government. They have threatened certain persons here as well. I have for the most part, successfully discovered who that person is. He is from this list. Tonight, shortly after Pamela posted her message about the “final proof”, my web site, and Anomalies.net went down… One of two possibilities exists right now. The sites reside in California and it is possible a power outage caused the site to go offline. However, everything should have come back online after power was restored. I’m checking that right now and ought to have an answer sometime tomorrow morning. The second possibility is there has been an attack on the site. Something called a denial of service, if anyone knows what that is. I’ve determined that INDEED there have been some “hits” on the machines out there – but at this point, I haven’t confirmed it. I have people who are going to check though. If I find out, and the IPs – correction, the ISP matches the person who is sending out threatening letters… I have a sneaky suspicion the ONLY person being visited by the FBI or government agents will be the perpetrator. Some how… some folks seem to forget those of us in computer security have means at our disposal not normally assigned to the normal internet crowd. So – that said.. let me talk about the photograph since I can’t post it tonight. The photo is a scan of a Florida Government document. The exact gist of the document is regarding the fact that insurance has run out on a specific vehicle and needs to be renewed or some other action taken. The name, and most of the vehicle information has been blanked for privacy-sake. But… the important part is the date. The date is 03/26/01 That’s three days from today. Unforntunately even for me, I find this to be no true explanation for John Titor, Time Traveler. As a “true skeptic” (not of time travel, but rather believing that John IS a time traveler) I realize that given the fiasco of the Florida election process this past year, that Florida of ALL places is suspect when it comes to government documents. It is in all likelyhood a typographical error. But, all of you can be the judge (assuming my site is back online tonight). Otherwise, I willget the photo online as soon as humanly possible. Yesterday, if I had a time machine. Rick
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-23-2001 09:03 PM
~when it begins to rain, it is time to go rainbow gazing.~ -pamela
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-23-2001 09:12 PM
What’s the suppose to mean Pamela? Let’s take a poll, who here has been contacted by someone claiming to be from the government? I haven’t. Obviously what would they want with a TimeTravelActivist . [Edited by Javier Cortez on 03-23-2001 at 09:14 PM]
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-23-2001 10:17 PM
I haven’t.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 10:50 PM
I feel for John for having such a mixed-up youth, but even John should realize certain thing. The Government probably is not interested in his ‘time machine’. But you know politicians, they have probably passed a law that John owes them some kind of tax for entering from a different worldline, even if from the past or from the future. It is probably already as law in this day and age. John, you will have to pay your tax before you leave. They have no need to poke you with needles or take your ‘time machine’, but they will be very determined to collect their money. Why, heck, they do not even care if you pay with future money; since the debt is so large, and it would not even be paid off in the future of 2036. You would not want to leave small John with such a debt, would you? What do you think John? Yes, Pam, I have seen ‘Contact’, a while back. I think I remember some of it, not that much of it though. Tell John to pay his tax before he leaves. You know this day and age and politicians.
Posted by Philip Mistlberger on 03-24-2001 02:20 AM
Such a grandly entertaining thread. About two years back, on the old Art Bell BBS (which used to be highlighted in that tiring blue, not this pleasant green), there was a self-proclaimed time traveller (Marc “X”) who had everyone in a tizzy for about a month or so. The thread racked up hundreds of posts, it was often extremely funny, mostly for the interplay between several posters, about 4 or 5 of whom were all named “Mark”. The time-traveller, Marc X, claimed to be an anthropologist from the 22nd century. Unfortunately, in his initial introductory post he spelt “anthropologist” wrong several times. When this was duly pointed out to him by one of the Marks, he defended himself by claiming that English had morphed in the future, but that he would do his best to adapt to our current patterns. This explanation became his most common “out” when in hot spots. Marc was not stupid, but I must say that John Titor has him beat hands down. He not only has covered his bases quite well, he has managed to disappear in a cloud of uncertainty that will at the worst leave some wondering (though granted Darby seems to have stymied him in the physics department). Marc X made the error of returning from periods of absence in an attempt to offer rebuttals to attacks on his claims, and to try to dodge and justify and explain his way out of too many loopholes. In the end he failed. He was finally exposed, as someone tracked him down (the giveway being the “c” at the end of his first name, which made his whole name actually uncommon) and located him as a college student in a north mid-west university. But as a prankster he did a good job, provided the most entertaining thread I ever recall seeing on this BBS (outside of the “Oh My God” forum), and certainly stimulated many to think. I haven’t been able to read every post in this thread, so I’m not sure if this has been mentioned. But John’s explanation of a “Russian invasion” of the U.S. is strikingly reminiscent of an obscure 1984 science fiction film called “Red Dawn”, which dealt with just such a theme. The idea seems so outlandish that I can only wonder if “time-traveller John” didn’t see that movie — cheesie as it was. [Edited by Philip Mistlberger on 03-24-2001 at 02:22 AM]
Posted by Barbara Clements on 03-24-2001 04:30 AM
Did anyone listen to Art’s show last night, he had a line open for TT’s. Did any call in? I had to go to sleep as I get up at 5am to go to work, so I wondered.
Posted by Mike Haley on 03-24-2001 05:26 AM
Thumbs down I am listening to the archive at the moment and am currently 2 hours into it. Well, most of the calls have been people claiming to be the Anti-Christ. Will the real Anti-Christ please stand up and smite the false ones with pillars of fire? Or, better yet, do so on the air. That would inspire some righteous ( or not-so-righteous ) fear. The few time travellers that called in really were not all that spectacular. None of them convincing, in my opinion. Especially the one that talked about time travelling vacations via pill, using nano-bots to send the body back in time. Sounds a little too much like that show “Time Trax”. Now, if someone were capable of time travelling into the near future, say 30 minutes, then come back and, on the air, tell everyone who would call and what they would say, then that would be interesting. Apparently, though, most time travellers come from 2008 and jump back to 2001 for some reason. Why 2001 is beyond me ( of course, we’re only 3 months into it ) when 4004 BC would be so much more interesting. In my opinion, at least.
Posted by Randy Empey on 03-24-2001 07:33 AM
Philip M: Why do you consider ‘Red Dawn’ an obscure science fiction film? Maybe we’re not thinking the same movie, but your mention of the russian factor is pretty telling. It might be speculative near-future, but it is more patriotism-fiction or guns-and-glory-feel-good-save-the-free-world than it is science fiction — nothing futuristic is involved at all. The pickup truck the main characters escape the opening scene in might be as old as the one Titor says he carries his time machine around in. ALL: I think the line between observations, theories, dreams, past experiences and good stories are blurred by both the medium here and the participants. So what? As long as ideas are exchanged, there is some intelligent dissembly & assembly going on and expressed possibilities are maximized, I think this kind of interchange is still healthy. Its long been my intuition that the facts and figures we struggle to learn in school aren’t the actual useful lessons we learn in school — its learning to learn, excercising our minds, that is the ultimate benifit. It was my hope that simmular results could be gained in threads of this type. And it has, yet …. Some of us have traveled so far, and gained so much in our ‘official’ educational journeys that its become a knee jerk reaction to shoot ‘impossible’ stories down. I bet amazing will power has been excercised to keep said knee-jerks to a minimum, they have still had their effects … Of course, I error in the other direction, and that has its own short comings … but, Javier, I am not being led of a cliff — If I plunge into the sea of imagination it is of my own free will. Critical thinking and analysis is needed and is doing good here, but lets not let it stop us from seeing the rest of the forest here. —- Then again, I was always one of those boring kids who read the text book (or whatever fiction I had brought from home) when the teacher left the room … (unless I was enlisted by the trouble makers to plan thier escape, but that is niether here nor there …) So, throw your spit wads … make fun of the teacher’s baldness and tie … prepare your rebbuttals of the establisment’s version of the facts … there is something to be learned from such actions too — just lets stop letting our knee-jerk reactions kick each other around. What does plausibility of a story have to do with the reality of events indicated in said story? Its not a one to one relationship, I am sure — is there enough correlation to back our claims of validity or invalidity without reasonable doubts?
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-24-2001 07:46 AM
Great observations Randy! Anyone can call themselves a time traveler and be the catylst for lively discourse provided they do at least as good a job of it as JT did. Don’t get too hard on ‘Old Philip’. Talking pictures themselves were only rumors when he descended from the highlands of Tibet.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-24-2001 08:08 AM
Angry http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=22090 That news link might be very interesting to some who’ve been following some of the “predictions” here. It covers a report about Jane’s news – regarding the new “Russian Offensive”. With the expulsion of the 50-something-odd Russians who are supposed to be spies… well, this comes as no surprise to me, but welcome back to the Cold War of the 21st Century. My web site is still down, but is likely due to power outages. I will be starting a thread later today about something related to this stuff in the hopes we can continues some important discussions, and lacking the intellectual barbs. Just give me some time, because I have to run through all of the several hundred posts again. Rick PS Javier… *I* wasn’t contacted either. But, instead of you trying to figure it out, why don’t you back off on that subject. The individuals who contacted me about it were upset and do not want to be known, hence the reason for NOT posting their names to begin with. Me thinks thou doth protest too much, so knock it off. [Edited by Rick Donaldson on 03-24-2001 at 08:29 AM]
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-24-2001 10:26 AM
John has not been seen or heard from here in this public forum since approximately page 40. Ten new pages, mostly barbs and personal attacks have occured since then. I have compiled all of the writing that has been done by John Titor, alledged Time Traveler and will be going through it today for “predictions”. Let me explain. John stated at one point he would not make any. In at least two other places he mentioned his reasons, or morals for not doing so. However… I find it very difficult myself to not make predictions. Let’s make a rash assumption that any one of us could travel back in time to, say 1979 and once there, we could answer any questions presented to us by that population with whom we would interact. At that point, people start asking you about the future. Though your personal rules keep you from making “predictions”, they do not stop you from answering well placed questions about yourself, the time travel aspect, and even perhaps some vague history of yourself (Future to everyone else). Within that aspect, you will give answers regarding the future that were either inadvertent or that you mistakenly considered “safe”. I place before you the supposition that John Titor, Alleged Time Traveler has done just so. In the thread I am about to open, we will discuss his information. Sometime today, I will post my list of possible predictions to a future Earth. Join me there for this discussion… and let’s keep this one open for the possibility John will post a good bye, or make an offer for me to fly down for his departure. (I’m still open to doing so). Rick
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-24-2001 12:25 PM
Rick, If I was still in the Military I may have to listen to you. But I’m not, so I won’t. Plus how can I protest to much about this, when I only mentioned it once? Anyway’s, I just woke up from a very strange Time Travel Dream. It was the year 2225, and it had to do with being a frozen cube. It was very weird . -J.C.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-24-2001 03:53 PM
The following message was forwarded to me from an anonymous source. I do not know why this person chose the venue he or she chose to attack me – which was through an innocent individual, but I don’t like it one bit. This is apparently one of the folks claiming military connections and asking folks to shut up. Well... I don’t like cowards. I don’t people telling me to shut up either. If you want to talk to me, my email address is public. Feel free to write. I certainly want to hear from you in person. Until then, suffice it to say, I do not require ‘enlightenment’ from you or anyone else. As far as whether or not “is he or isn’t he” this is a free country in which I live so I am entitled to my opinion on this subject. I don’t care if you wrote every manual in the US government. You’re way off base attacking me, THROUGH someone else, and privately. You’re a coward. Come out from hiding and admit who you really are instead of using innocent go-betweens. You haven’t a clue what you’re talking about when you refer to me. You also haven’t a clue what a “future manual” might look like, no more than I have a clue about it. You see… If John were from the future, and the items I’ve already posted on another thread are even remotely true, the government as you know it now, and publications standards ARE NOT what you think they are. So… smart ass – either come out in public, or shut up. In the mean time, answer me here – in Public. And before I hear any bitching about “private email” remember this, you SENT IT TO ME THROUGH A THIRD PARTY – therefore it is MINE TO DO WITH AS I WISH, and I wish to release it to the public domain, right here on this board. Now… if you want a private debate, write me privately. Until then, keep your mouth shut and leave the middle people out of this. My Comments below, are in Parens: —– Original Message —– From: <Name Blanked by Me> To: <name Blanked by me> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 2:23 PM Subject: Let’s help Rick out, shall we? <Name Blanked by me> Sigh. Sorry to trouble you again. Please do “Rick Donaldson” a favor and forward this text on to him. Thanks. — Rick, This is a private note to you. I trust that <Name Blanked by me> will keep it in confidence also. (That person did… I chose not to) Now, your claims of government service allowing you to be knowledgeable about “tech pubs” – just what exposure did you have to them? Was it a tech pub for swivel chair maintenance? (Nope… my background is documented well, in several places, you apparently didn’t bother yourself to read them) As a civilian who grew up an Army brat only to marry a spouse who spent twenty years, combined, in the military and the private military aerospace arena and during which time I went into the publishing world where I ended up working on military technical publications for a while, I find your lack of knowledge (and gullibility) striking. So allow me to privately enlighten you. (As a civilian huh? Funny… you’re in the “publishing world”. As a matter of fact, so am I. As a matter of fact, I worry about many THOUSANDS of documents. As a matter of FACT I’m neither gullible nor am I lacking in knowledge. Nothing I’ve stated to this point on this BBS is inaccurate in any sense of the word. Your insults from someone so obviously “enlightened” trouble me though, since you obviously do not belong in the job you’re in now, especially if you have a clearance… tell me who you are so we can take care of that forthwith.) Considering the subject at hand is purported to be such a high level technical device which, by its very nature, would potentially put lives in danger with each use (much like an aircraft), its manual format WILL BE in compliance with the highest available mil-specs and standards. Not only that, MULTIPLE MANUALS ARE CREATED by the military contractor, for said device, in different actual physical sizes for such technical devices covering many aspects of said devices – not just one. (WILL BE in compliance with WHOSE standards? Yours? Certainly not. You obviously are from the year 2001. Funny how everyone wants to put their standards on someone like John. I don’t believe John is a time traveler any more than you apparently do, on the other hand… at least I’m open minded enough to discuss the subject, something you’re afraid to do in public. Your standards are for you, not for John. Get over it). The private contractor who manufactured the device for the military would be required to rigidly adhere to those specs and standards for the accompanying technical publications as a requirement and condition of having been awarded a contract for manufacturing such a device…”lowest bidder” my ass. That has nothing in the world to do with mil-spec compliance which the government takes very seriously. The teams of degreed Engineers, Tech Writers, Drafts Persons, Graphic Artists, CAD Operators, Computer Programmers, Word Processor Operators, Technical Proofreaders et. al., responsible for putting these highly complicated books together, who take their responsibilities very seriously, thank you for your insulting remarks. (Assuming the same ‘rigid standards’ exist in John’s time frame. The truth is, these rigid standards are subject to changes locally on ALL documentation, and errors ABOUND in them. I see them every day and I KNOW FOR A FACT THEY EXIST WITH ERRORS. Please come down from your perfect world and join the rest of us in reality. My so-called insulting remarks are nothing compared to yours so far. I’m telling the truth, you’re an example of someone in denial. As far as “lowest bidder – my ass” goes.. well, the lowest bidder who got the contract does follow whatever standards are in place at the time. However, the LOWEST BIDDER STILL GETS THE CONTRACT – so, they are thereby just as limited as anyone else, what with cost overruns, budget reductions to get rid of extra people on a job so they can make a profit and so forth. So don’t give me any crap about it being “mil spec” because the government says so. I KNOW what the government requires, and I also know what gets past the technical writers as well.) A typical cover/title page for any such manual SHOULD, by mil-specs and standards, resemble _something_ like this (see below), no two ways around it. (Should, again according to YOUR specifications. Not to those in John’s “Time Frame”. I’m sorry but you’re putting yourself further and further into a hole here. Remember – John is alledgely from 2036, a few years AFTER a nuclear war. I’m certain – I’m POSTIVE that people after such a thing are not going to adhere to YOUR standards simply because YOU say so.) For the technical publication itself (including cover/title page), mil-spec requirements for everything (right down to the minimum card stock quality) include: Fonts to be used, font sizes (in the point system used by publishers), text spacings, line spacings, margin widths, justifications (left, center or right, depending), decimal point lineups, how “figures” (illustrations, etc) are numbered and classified (not even present on the “document” in question, oh by the way), requirements for numbering of paragraphs (decimal system), page numbering system, character string identifiers required to be present at the bottom of each and every page (not even present on the “document” in question, oh by the way)… …and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, AND ON, AD NAUSEUM are laid out in NUMEROUS SEPARATE GOVERNMENT MANUALS written specifically for contractors ON HOW TO WRITE THE TECH PUB that would have you going blind and pulling your hair out before you have read and learned it all. (Technical manuals and technical orders are already difficult to read, they are so blasted difficult for the guys in the field they don’t even use them. Truth be told, if I had to take out a manual to repair a radio, by following the instructions therein, I would not get it repaired. I set them aside and use my talents for troubleshooting before I would read one of YOUR technical manuals. ANYONE who has EVER used an Air Force Technical Order knows PRECISELY what I am talking about! So get off your high horse.) Not to mention the fact that tech pubs are ALWAYS in a binder system to accommodate the insertion of the inevitable revisions and changes, and replacement of damaged pages. Where are the page holes if the pages were removed for copying? (You’re right, they are in binder systems. IF they are technical orders. However, guess what? The Army from 1932 through 1960-something published manuals in BOOKS. They weren’t in binders. Guess what? They have started doing so again. Only the Air Force has a standard binder. Inevitable revisions and changes… you mean – AD NAUSEUM again, don’t you? If there are prefect manuals out there, then why the hell are there so many changes all the time? Think about it… perfect manuals mean there should never be corrections – which is what almost EVERY SINGLE PAGE I’VE EVER FILED IN AN EXISTING MANUAL ARE THERE FOR! CORRECTIONS TO MISTAKES FOUND BY THE GUYS IN THE FIELD!!!!!!!!) That cover page and content “evidence” for the “time machine” looks like it’s from a high school book report! It’s not even close to being in mil-spec compliance in any way shape or form. Dear God, when you go to work on Monday, lay your hands on a real technical publication – if you have the clearance to do so – and look at it. Examine the format carefully. How it’s assembled. Notice the character string identifiers all over the place, etc., etc., etc. ( I never said it WAS A TIME MACHINE MANUAL. I never said it was in compliance with mil-spec either. I said I had experts looking at it. MY EXPERTS have since been appraised of this entire forum and are reading it. THEY tell me that not only is is POSSIBLE but ” … who knows what the technical standards for the future might be? I <the guy answering me> do not know one way or another, but my opinion is it isn’t a time machine and isn’t a real manual.” Happy??? I don’t know what your problem is, but I’ve got as many, if not MORE resources to ask about this stuff as you do. So back off. By the way.. you AND my folks only have a couple of pages, not the original manual. I defy ALL of you to make an accurate determination from a PHOTOCOPY that was THEN SCANNED into the computer on binding, or anything else! Not only can you NOT decide it isn’t real, you can NOT DECIDE IT IS REAL.) If you REALLY knew what the technical publications looked like for a high level device (system), you most certainly would have tossed this ridiculous “is he or isn’t he” speculation out the window, oh, about 2 seconds after viewing the “time machine” pages, like I did. (No, I wouldn’t have done such a thing. Again, you’re applying whatever mediocre standards of yourself to me. The difference between me and you is an open mind. Yours is obviously closed and you suffer a severe case of denial. I’m sorry for your security clearance, but when reality sets in, you will be safely out of the system and away from any government sites. Your most obvious problem is an ego the size of Seattle. Perhaps you need an Ego-quake to put you in your place.) Good Luck. TYPICAL STYLE FOR TECH PUB COVER/TITLE PAGE INCLUDING VARYING FONT SIZES: 24, 18, 14 & 8 POINT: ___________________________________________________ “SECURITY CLASSIFICATION” XX-XXX-XX-X (PUB # HERE) __________________________ VOLUME #/PART # REVISION# TECHNICAL MANUAL (TYPE OF PUB HERE – MAINTENANCE, OPERATION, ETC.) (NOMENCLATURE OF EQUIPMENT HERE) (SUBTITLE HERE) (NAME OF MANUFACTURER OF EQUIPMENT, AND GOVERNMENT CONTRACT NUMBER HERE) *** (INSERT APPROX. 2-INCH SIZE “BRANCH OF SERVICE” SEAL HERE) *** (SUPERCEDURE NOTICE HERE) (SUPPLEMENT NOTICE HERE) (DISCLOSURE NOTICE HERE) (DISTRIBUTION STATEMENT INCLUDING RESTRICTIONS HERE) _____________________________________________ (This is indeed similar to SOME manuals the government uses, but, it isn’t similar at ALL to some that we use today. Matter of fact, I have several non-standard manuals that more conform to John’s manual than to yours, but they are all classified and I can’t even SHOW YOU the format. So put that in your pipe and smoke it with whatever else you’re already smoking.) [Edited by Rick Donaldson on 03-24-2001 at 04:07 PM]
Posted by John Titor on 03-24-2001 06:19 PM
I will be leaving this worldline shortly and this will be my final post. There are only a handful of people who will know exactly when I will be leaving and I’m sure they will let you know when I’m gone.
In the last few days I have found your choice of topics quite interesting and from an objective viewpoint I think it collectively answers one of your own questions, “If time travel is real, where are all the time travelers?” In the past, I have stated that quite frankly, you all scare the Hell out of me and I’m sure other temporal drivers would feel the same. But now I have an expanded explanation with two examples.
A while ago (on one of the posts), I related an experience I had with my parents while we were driving down a highway. Every now and then, we would pass someone who was in obvious distress with their vehicle. I was amazed that so many people could pass them by without stopping to help. Their explanation was fear. The risk of helping someone was too great and with today’s technology, they probably had a cell phone anyway. If they didn’t, the walk to a gas station would be good for them and teach them a lesson for running out of gas.
The other example is the plight of the homeless. When you pass them as individuals on the street I see the way people selectively choose an alternate path to avoid them.
Those two examples best define why time travelers do not show themselves. In trying to help you, we put ourselves as great risk and there’s really no point to it. We know the nature of time dictates that traveling between “exact” worldlines is impossible. Therefore, the only results we will see will be the ones we stay to see. Since worldlines, outcomes and events are infinite, we have better things to do. When I arrive in the “new” 1998 worldline on my way home I could easily start all of this again and continue to go through the same conversations with all of the same people. However, I already know you won’t pay any attention or believe me because we’ve already been through it on this worldline. Besides, I think the walk to the gas station will do you some good.
*****************************************************************************************
The following are the last questions I saw before my “going home” post. I apologize for not being able to get to all of them.
ROBERT:
((Do most of the people of that time die out, especially ones that currently have health problems?))
Yes, and people are still dying and a great deal of them are passing from CJD. As I said, with my very first few posts almost 6 months ago, I want to emphasize how devastating this will be. I believe two people are confirmed dead in Colorado from CDJ from surgical instruments. Ahhhh, the power of cheese. Milk does a body good and beef is what’s for dinner!
Me: “No, I have not tried any fast food. Thinking about where the food came from, how it was shipped and treated absolutely terrifies me. I have tried to tell people about CJD disease and it seems to be “catching on” in Europe.”
Me: Do not eat or use products from any animal that is fed and eats parts of its own dead.
Me: The “Mad Cow” story here is yet to begin…
((Is it possible that sometime in your future or in your present time that time travel will be commonplace?))
Yes, that is absolutely possible and eventual.
((Have any of the scientists of your time discovered any new planets, possibly ones with life?))
Not that I’m aware of.
((Has the bandwidth of the Internet increased greatly?))
Yes.
((And finally, one last question…how did Texas fare during the war?))
Texas is still there but Spanish is a lot more popular.
DAN:
((How does time travel affect our future (no pun intended) exploration of the universe? It seems that the greatest obstacles in our way right now are a matter of energy (propulsion technology) and economic feasibility. It seems to me that time travel technology could neatly takes care of both.))
There is a great deal of debate about trying to use a distortion unit to “travel” to the moon. The experiment would require very precise calculations that would allow the VGL system to find a theoretical path to the moon on a different world-line. The only problem is there is no way to communicate with anyone if the experiment should succeed. In other words, it’s possible to do it but only the people on the receiving end could take advantage of it.
DAVID:
((My oldest son wanted me to ask if you have any siblings.))
No, I am an only child.
((Also, are you still planning on broadcasting your departure via a broadcast over the Internet? That would be quite interesting.))
My father will be videotaping the departure. I appreciate Rick’s offer but my primary concern is the anonymity of my family. In addition, my departure will be in a somewhat public place and I do not want to draw additional attention to myself. At no fault of his own, I would also submit that Rick’s involvement would not add any credibility to the event.
((Is there still an NCAA basketball tournament in 2036, and if so, has it expanded from its current 64-team format?))
Yes, we still play basketball but I am not a fan and can’t comment on its organization.
ALBERT:
((Interesting anyway, hoped you used some of the links.
Thanks.))
Yes I did, thank you.
JOE:
((You say that you wear some kind of flight suit like coveralls when you are time traveling and that you experience 2 g’s for 6-8 hrs. How is it possible to withstand that kind of g-force for such a long period without the use of an anti-g suit?))
The average human can take 2 G’s without too much difficulty. Blackout occurs at about 8 or 9 Gs and redout occurs at negative 3 Gs.
((I know you must be physically trained for space travel, but you should also have the benefit of equipment to help you out.))
We are encouraged to stay physically fit.
EMMETT:
In an effort to address Emmett’s comments, (and in all fairness) the following posts are out of context and not in order. If I’m not a real time traveler I would suggest that Emmett is at a disadvantage on his tactics to “expose” me.
If I present a picture of a sea monster to you and I claim it’s real you are forced to argue its validity on the basis of the evidence that I present or create. Under these circumstances, you can’t win. If you look at the picture and argue that sea monsters should have more teeth or their incisors are not in proportion to the amount of fish they eat, it’s easy to ask you how you know so much about sea monsters if they don’t exist. Granted, you could point to dinosaur skeletons and make comparisons. But I can still say, its not a dinosaur, it’s a sea monster. In fact, I could even “whip” up some tooth marks on a piece of petrified wood and prove to you don’t know anything about sea monsters.
((I realize that you haven’t given “all of the technical details” of the device…so, the reparte has been fun. But your device, as described, simply won’t work.))
If you don’t have all the details, how do you know it doesn’t work?
((Honestly, I’m not upset about any of this…and the only emotion involved for me is joy. This is fun! It really is.)
Joy?
Emmett drew the following assumptions from our conversation and I don’t believe I said any of them.
((The universe that you described, that is, one where mass is accelerated to light speed and forms a singularity doesn’t exist.))
((1. As you accelerated to light speed in your machine you and your machine formed a black hole.))
((2. From your perspective as you accelerated to light speed every other object in the universe formed a black hole due to your relative velocities))
((Take a close look at the technical drawing. Look especially at the left and right end perspectives. Not the same – very poor quality CAD for a billion dollar project.))
A billion? How do you know it’s a CAD drawing?
((If you have contact with Boomer please attempt to verify the elapsed time (on his internal chronometer) for his trip from 2036 to 1975. I need that data for a calculation.))
The first leg takes me to 1998. I think I said that quite a few times.
((He also said that the mass of the singularities is that of a “small mountain”.))
If that were true, the unit could not be moved. I only refrenced the mass of a small mountain in one of our physics conversations. In fact, I believe I said the mass for the singularities in the distortion unit was much smaller.
((The last time I checked the physics I didn’t see an “on-off” switch for a black hole or any other singularity.))
Me neither. I don’t believe I said you could turn it on or off.
((At 2 g acceleration you will be traveling just a tad faster than a Chevy pick-up in short order (about one year to reach light speed).))
This is the one that really disappoints me. Even you should know that Einstein’s thought experiment in the isolated elevator was based on the idea that the effects of acceleration and gravity are the same. I never said acceleration had anything to do with how the unit operates.
((Does it really make sense that his handlers would authorize a personal vacation with their billion-dollar machine?))
I’m looking at my orders and I don’t see the word vacation on it anywhere. You had my hopes up for a moment. Interesting how quickly a billion-dollars has become a fact now.
((And, though he’s never said that he hasn’t let anyone else come close to the machine, who took the picture of his two hands in one of the photos?))
When did I say that? I’ll have to let Pamela explain the laser pointer picture. She may already have posted the email I sent earlier.
Here are a few other comments I found interesting:
((The answer to the question, “How does a person born in 1998 use the language…?” is – who knows?))
I agree. How would you know?
((The two yellow caution tapes on the device are misaligned. Sloppy workmanship.))
I’ll have to point that out to my “handlers” when I get back.
((I suppose that if you were interested in verification of Boomer’s science that you could go right to the source, Dr. Frank Tipler, Tulane University, for an interview.))
He’s a very pleasant gentleman. I highly recommend his book, The Physics of Immortality. I believe I made reference to this earlier.
((…what would prevent we, the enemy state, from returning the machine to 2036 with a suitcase nuclear device onboard?))
This is the second time I’ve seen a reference to the unit as a weapon. I would submit that the people of this worldline have nothing to fear from me. What would you do with the unit?
((J.C. …I like the way Darby thinks))
Now there’s an endorsement.
For more information on black holes and sigularities, I did find this site.
http://www.rdrop.com/users/green/school/primordi.htm
In your opinion, what is the smallest mass that can form a singulairty? Even Hawking suggested primordial singularities were created at the Big Bang. Were there planets (or half planets) around to form them then?
Based on your ability to draw conclusions about someone’s profile from their typed words I find it hard to believe you would make such errors in the syntax and meaning of the exact same words. Unfortunately, you have now maneuvered yourself into a position where I have the last word and our debate must has come to an end. Boomer isn’t a bad name and I sort of like it. Thanks TarBaby.
JAY:
((If there were an infinite number of realities, then there would necessarily arise a reality that somehow causes there to be no other realities. In fact, an infinite number of such realities would have to arise that cause there to be no other realities.))
Yes!! Excellent insight. I would have enjoyed a conversation on this.
I’m really going to miss my friend J.C. Although I did find a buried layer of truth and dedication in what his message was he never failed to make me smile in his attempt to make it. I couldn’t help but post a few choice comments he’s made over the last few months.
((Further more, my identity in the future would most likely be changed… Nevertheless, if you have been to the future, you know who I am. No doubt about that… ))
((Just start naming historical figures in your “time” or stop saying that you are a time traveler.))
((Hey, listen up… As a Time Traveler to the future my self, I have seen the uniforms. I have even put one on. Therefore, if TimeTraveler_0 <JOHN> can offer us a picture of his uniform as proof, I will verify it’s legitimacy with the one I wore.))
((And about GW Bush, I don’t know what to tell you. Although I have an uncle that looks like him.))
((How many times have I said to band Time Travel?))
(( And oh, that unknown variable, it’s me. You didn’t plan on encountering resistance. Especially a TimeTravelActivist. Hey this sounds more like something that would happen at the end of a Scobby Do cartoon. “You rotton kids…”))
(( So in retro-pects, I sense you have anger in me, for having morals and a sense of ethics on this issue of Time Travel.))
((What do you have to lose that you haven’t already messed up already.))
((I mean no disrespect, but you don’t seem to have the wisdom that I would expect someone from an advanced future would have. Your ideals are to liberal, much like in the 70’s where things were all about Sex, drugs and free love. Nasty…))
((I have been trying not to attack anyone since my return. And look at you, you hypocrite. Calling me an “agitator.”))
((Which is probably why so many people believe your story. But your not Anti-Time Travel like me. None of you have ever been manipulated by a Time Travelers plan for 21 years. Which is not to say they are, and you just don’t know it.))
This one is my favorite.
((I’d just like to say, before John Titor, (A.K.A. TT_0 in the post where he’s been taken out almost) that when he posts, he does a maneuver that focuses the question back to the receiver, as to have him think it’s been answered, and to shut him up. (Which in fact, he just avoided answering it, by doing what he did). He does this very often, and I’d just wanted to point that out before he did it again.))
((By the way, not to be picky or anything. But I know how perfect you like to have things with your writing. I just wanted to point out that you misspelled CHOOSEN. It’s Chosen, with one O.))
((Some Yang will always exist to oppose some Ying.))
((A person doesn’t have to be aggressive to be a @&^$#%. As you can tell, he’s been using his superior intellect, to manipulate and control his agenda here. Or am I the only one who can see that?))
Here are a few other things I found in our general conversations which might be worth repeating:
Me: “By that time, it was pretty clear that we were not going back to what we had and the division between the “cities” and the “country” was well defined. My father made a living by putting together 12-volt electrical systems…”
I believe it was a few days ago I saw a news story about potential problems with power that “might” affect the entire United States. Where do you think they’ll turn it off first when push comes to shove?
Me: “ However, there are a great many “non lethal” weapon systems in development that turn out to be quite lethal.”
Anyone for microwave popcorn?
Me: If you push a farmer too far, they stop growing food and have nothing to do but hide in the woods and shoot back.”
Second Vermont Sheep Herd Seized
By Wilson Ring
Associated Press Writer
Friday, March 23, 2001; 10:42 a.m. EST
EAST WARREN, Vt. –– Federal agents early Friday seized a second flock of Vermont sheep suspected of having been exposed to a form of mad cow disease.
Friday, March 23 9:08 PM SGT
Britain extends culling of healthy animals to whole country
LONDON, March 23 (AFP) –
Britain stepped up its fight against foot-and-mouth disease Friday, announcing measures to slaughter animals throughout the country and not just in three targeted areas.
I also want to thank Pamela for helping me with the email and everyone else who asked intelligent and insightful questions. I have learned a great deal.
My parting thought revolves around something J.C. has been harping on since day one. No, I do not have a secret agenda but I have been paying a great deal of attention to your world-line. My interaction with you was not a direct mission parameter but it was a secondary mission protocol based on standing orders given to all temporal drivers. That secondary objective is basically to gather as much information about a worldline based on a set of observable variables when we first arrive. Your worldline met those conditions. What amazes me is why no one here wonders why Y2K didn’t hit them at all?
Bring a gas can with you when the car dies on the side of the road.
Farewell.
John
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-24-2001 07:01 PM
Oh come on John, even in the end you still try to buy into people emotions in hopes that this will be their last chance to believe you. I feel sorry for those that do. Farewell John, but you only brought this upon your self. I was only asking the questions no one was asking. -J.C. P.S. you said you were out of Town, but I’ll bet you were watching for a few days since you been back. You won’t be leaving till the 11th of April. Am I to believe you will still keep watching?
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-24-2001 07:12 PM
Ahh my hypothetical comments to you. I almost forget about them. Seems to me like a crawling maneuver. Last chance to get me back for all those months of asking the questioning no one was asking, uhh ? You sound bitter John. Bitter that the end didn’t come the way you expected? Don’t be a sore loser, and leave slapping and whining. That’s just not what a future major does? Or is it ? Have a nice life John. I mean that, sincerely I do. I just regret you couldn’t have been sincere as well. [Edited by Javier Cortez on 03-24-2001 at 07:15 PM]
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-24-2001 07:37 PM
John – I said this in another thread. Good luck, where ever you might end up… and no matter what time line it happens to be. I do not believe for a second that you’re going anywhere in a time machine, and as a matter of fact, my observation of said departure WOULD lend credibility to your story. You don’t have any IDEA how much credibility it would add. Some people do understand that, but, unfortunately, the one who needs to understand it, doesn’t. Such is life, and missed opportunities. If you ARE a time traveler – and you DO go back to 1998, I’m more than willing to listen to you then, as I am now. If you forward that email to me in that year, you can bet your ass on the fact, I will post it. That means it will show up on my web site after you depart our time line. With the right dates on the file name…. I’m making a note to myself to look for it. If it does not show up… then you aren’t what you said you were. Good luck. Rick
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-24-2001 08:01 PM
Well, as I understand it, there are still people alive, including everyone looking or involved. So, we all have to live it! This makes such a topic ‘picky’. (Emotionally Inebriated). Twilight Zone.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-24-2001 08:06 PM
Well, as I understand it, there are still people alive, including everyone looking or involved. So, we all have to live it! This makes such a topic ‘picky’. (Emotionally Inebriated). Twilight Zone. A little humor, my feeling, if you can not, then be prepared for a world that’s could be quite terrible. Most of the time, whether anyone will agree or not, people usually get what they wish for, but in a form, that may not be agreeable with the viewpoint of the person making the wish. Make sure you really are knowing what you are really wishin’ for. And you may want to break apart the ‘chicken bone’ before there is none left.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-24-2001 08:30 PM
Well Rick, it’s good to understand how much respect and influence people here think you have. Just make sure you use that responsibly, and try and see both sides of an issue. Or else, we may end up bumping heads in a many discussions. After all, I have mentioned time after time, how much I dislike opportunist and those that exploit people. But personally, I respect you, and think you can be as much a passionate person like my self when it comes to certain issues. Just a tad disappointing how much you endorse John like you do… Or brown nosing? Either way, John is gone now. What he’s left behind will be people’s gospel. Sad but true. Well, it’s a good thing this board has a TimeTravelActivist . To ensure that the other side that never gets talked about, does. Sincerely, Javier C.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-24-2001 08:31 PM
John, you scare the ‘heck’ out of us. And this ‘connection timed out’ is really scary, and its not even Halloween. Can I post a message without it double posting because of this, can I, can I?
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-24-2001 08:32 PM
Bye John, it’s been grand. Thanks for starting a thread that has been amusing, thought provoking and a darn good read. I have met many people here that I like and hope to meet again on other boards. Here’s hoping you make good time, Lola [Edited by Lola Montez on 03-24-2001 at 08:48 PM]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-24-2001 09:36 PM
Bye, bye John. Going to another worldline to show this stuff? The Beginning of Time http://www.hawking.org.uk/lectures/lindex.html Welcome to Professor Stephen Hawking’s website. http://www.hawking.org.uk/home/hindex.html Time?
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-25-2001 12:03 AM
Explanation of laser picture: The machine is in the back and that is a picture of John’s instructor demonstrating how the machine effects the light beam while on low power. you can see it bending the beam.
The cigar smoke was blown on the lasar beam to cause the beam to be seen better. John was in the drivers seat and took the picture. His instructor was in the passenger seat. John, goodbye my friend…safe journey home. perhaps we shall meet again?? In another Time, another Place…and the journey continues………………….. I will think of you everytime I see a rainbow. your friend throughout time, Pamela [Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-25-2001 at 12:15 AM]
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-25-2001 12:12 AM
Actually that laser looks more like a bent red wire to me. But I guess everyone believe it’s a bent laser, and that the cigar smoke is to make it be seen well. Pamela, What do you mean good-bye? You know your one of the select few he’s keeping in touch with until he leaves . So John is a real Time Traveler according to you now? -J.C. [Edited by Javier Cortez on 03-25-2001 at 12:24 AM]
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-25-2001 01:44 AM
John’s document can be seen here. I feel it is important to be viewed before the 26th. I suggest viewing it right away… never know how long it will be up before it cannot be viewed anymore for “mysterious” reasons.I am sorry it was not available to be seen when it was given to me. http://content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=get_album&ID_Community=MagiForums&ID_Topic=3 sincerely, pamela
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-25-2001 07:20 AM
Nationwide Assurance is not a mistake on the document. I had never heard of it before and researched it i always heard of Nationwide insurance. but i did research it and found that this insurance agancy does exist. This is from here: http://www.bestreview.com/2000-06/corporatechange.html (about half way down) Colonial Insurance Company of Wisconsin (Madison, Wis.), Columbus, Ohio. Effective April 30, the title was changed to Nationwide Assurance Co. sincerely, pamela [Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-25-2001 at 08:00 AM]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-25-2001 10:17 AM
WARNING! This thread may or may not contain hazards to your health. It may or may not already contain radioactive material. This warning has been placed here for your protection. Before use, read the instructions.
Seventh of multiple Posts
This post is the seventh of a series of posts related to John Titor. The other posts are;
Commentary
Again, there are elements of sublime truth in the words of “John Titor”, as well as evidence of a hoax. Certainly, some of what he said rings true to my experiences in MAJestic, but the elements of falsehoods are disturbing to me.
As it stands, he is the only other person who is able to suggest and describe a system of operation, purpose and objective of all the many people and vehicles that seemingly pop in and out of our reality. This alone has merit. Thus, this is why he is placed herein in this blog.
Conclusion
Our reality is not what we think it is. I am not the only person who has disclosed that there are others, and other organizations that can enter and leave our reality at will. Another person who made this claim went by the name John Titor.
Only where as, I claim to be part of MAJestic and was employed as part of human sentience management, John Titor claimed to be a person who was part of another world-line. Together, we both claim that the MWI is real, and we utilize it to perform dimensional egress for our own purposes.
- I claim that it is a tool that is used to manage human sentience evolution.
- John Titor claims that he utilized the time variable to conduct acquisition activities in the past.
He claimed that on that world-line, the United States was fundamentally different after a rapid series of events in the late 1990’s. He claimed that he needed to perform some acquisition of certain technical devices through the use of the time-variance option in dimensional travel.
This is the seventh of a multi-part post.
Take Aways
- John Titor claimed to be a time traveler.
- He utilized dimensional travel to move in and out of the baseline reality.
- As such, he visited our world-line to acquire some technology needed on his world-line.
- That technology was produced in “our” past. Thus the idea that it involved “time travel”.
MAJestic Related Posts – Training
These are posts and articles that revolve around how I was recruited for MAJestic and my training. Also discussed is the nature of secret programs. I really do not know why the organization was kept so secret. It really wasn’t because of any kind of military concern, and the technologies were way too involved for any kind of information transfer. The only conclusion that I can come to is that we were obligated to maintain secrecy at the behalf of our extraterrestrial benefactors.
MAJestic Related Posts – Our Universe
These particular posts are concerned about the universe that we are all part of. Being entangled as I was, and involved in the crazy things that I was, I was given some insight. This insight wasn’t anything super special. Rather it offered me perception along with advantage. Here, I try to impart some of that knowledge through discussion.
Enjoy.
MAJestic Related Posts – World-Line Travel
These posts are related to “reality slides”. Other more common terms are “world-line travel”, or the MWI. What people fail to grasp is that when a person has the ability to slide into a different reality (pass into a different world-line), they are able to “touch” Heaven to some extent. Here are posts that cover this topic.
John Titor Related Posts
Another person, collectively known by the identity of “John Titor” claimed to utilize world-line (MWI egress) travel to collect artifacts from the past. He is an interesting subject to discuss. Here we have multiple posts in this regard.
They are;
Articles & Links
- You can start reading the articles by going HERE.
- You can visit the Index Page HERE to explore by article subject.
- You can also ask the author some questions. You can go HERE to find out how to go about this.
- You can find out more about the author HERE.
- If you have concerns or complaints, you can go HERE.
- If you want to make a donation, you can go HERE.
(Visited 814 times, 1 visits today)