We are just a group of retired spooks that discuss things that you’ll not find anywhere else. It makes us unique. Take a look around. Learn a thing or two.
Let’s spend some time talking about what it is to be an American. For we are all a very unique and special breed of person. This is a truth that should be obvious to anyone who has the ability to think. After all, what would the 20th century look like were America not to have existed? That being said, the sad reality is that we take this role for granted.
Oh, we certainly say that “America is the best”, and we wave the flag around a lot, but we do not really and truly appreciate just how spectacular we actually are.
Here, in this article, I make the argument that we Americans have gotten used to being unique. I also posit that others, with evil intent, have used this knowledge to deceive Americans and have made us believe many untruths. They have convinced us of many things that are just not so. They are lies, or at the very least, distortions of the truth. These lies and falsehoods have deceived us. They have tricked us. They have enslaved us. Yet, we continue to follow the lies that allow us to follow a dangerous path.
The way that they have enslaved us is through deception. What a American is has been redefined. And as such, has become so inclusive that everyone and everything from the welfare-immigrant to the ratty village dog down the street now considers themselves “American”. When they are absolutely and positively not.
Being a United States citizen does not automatically qualify you to be an American. No matter how loudly the progressive left shouts this from their mainstream media outlets. Being an American is a state of mind, an attitude and a way of life. You don’t automatically become an American just because you get food stamps. You don’t automatically become an American simply because you were born here. (That includes birth-right immigration.) And, you don’t automatically get to call yourself an American by being in possession of a Green Card.
Being an American is a [1] way of life, and [2] a thought process, that [3] comes through earned experiences.
Others with evil intent have altered the meaning of what An American is. They have done this for their own purposes, just like they have redefined what “gender” is, “being white” is, and the history of America is. Here’s some misconceptions, or excuses, that we allow to enslave us.
Buckle up…
“Americans live in the United States”
Being an American is an idea, and a behavior. It is not limited by geography.
While many Americans live inside the geographical confines of the United States, not all do. Americans live all over the world, and some even live outside and above it.
The International Space Station with the American Space Shuttle docked to it. Americans are everywhere. They are not limited to Earth-bound geography.
Further, just living inside of the confines of the United States does not qualify that person as an American. Are the (reported 30+ thousand) illegals in the United States American? What about those that want to overthrow the government? Like the radical Marxists, the Antifa, the BLM and the radical SJW types? Are they Americans?
America is a great place, full of wonderful people. However, if you even suggest that there are other places, outside the USA, that are equally nice, you will be laughed at. When you tell a person that it’s a big beautiful world, full of fresh opportunities and a sense of freedom, and most people will look at you like you are crazy.
In their mind, there is only one place on the entire planet that is wonderful. That is the USA, and the USA alone.
To them, the rest of the world looks like a dark and dingy place. It looks like El Paso on a cloudy day. It looks like a Brazilian garbage dump or a “Save the Children” commercial. The rest of the world has shabby buildings, poorly dressed people, terrible food, and miserable people.
The rest of the world as described by CNN. The world is a grey and hopeless place. We must all count our blessings that we live in America and not in a Brazilian garbage dump. That’s why taxes must be kept high. Else the nations would collapse and become this image. Yikes!
That’s not true. it’s not even remotely true.
For decades, if not centuries, Americans have been subjected… dare I say it,; bombarded, with the notion that there is one “greatest” nation on the planet. It is the geographical nation known as the United States of America. Nothing else even comes close.
Of course…
That was, of course, because the United States was populated by Americans. Americans ran the nation. Americans invented things. Americans defended their freedoms. No other nation, no other country; no other geographic region possessed such a high percentage of hard-working Americans. The United States was alone in that regard.
Thus, over time, the United States became associated with “being an American”.
Ah, but, things have changed since then.
Today, real Americans are no longer a majority in the United States. They are a minority. There are over 30 million illegal non-citizens in the Untied States today. (That is six times the size of New York City.) Nearly one half of the legal population believe that security is more important than freedom. Many of these very same people do not work, nor do they want to work. They just want to feed off the government trough. In their sloth, they elect like-minded people to rule over them. (Which is the fundamental idea behind “vote harvesting”.)
Time Magazine promoting the idea that everyone is an American. It’s just the unfair immigration laws that prohibit people from becoming legal Americans.
As a result, because of these people, the United States has changed into something else.
The United States is only as great as the Americans that occupy it and rule it.
That being said, let me make something perfectly clear. Being an American is an attitude and a behavior. It is not limited by geography.
So, let me say this. Americans live all over the globe. We are special whether we live in Timbuktu, or Omaha. Being an American is not defined by geography. It is defined by attitude.
In my mind there is no comparison between an American Cowboy that happens to be living and working in Japan, or Socialist ignoramus Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez who has never set foot outside of the United States. The two are NOT the same. They might both be United States citizens, but they are NOT both Americans.
Being an American is an idea that burns in our hearts.
Here is an American talking about his life. Is he bragging about all the women that he banged on his casting couch? Is he talking about the money that he made on bitcoin, or the new software startup that he is planning at Starbucks? Nope. None of that.
If the concept about liberty and freedom does not burn in your heart, if that idea is foreign to you, if that concept is alien to you, then you are NOT an American. This is true whether you physically live in the United States or not.
Quang Nguyen who escaped from Vietnam and founded Caddis Branding Agency said,
”You see, America is not just a place on the map, it isn't just a physical location. It is an ideal, a concept. And if you are an American, you must understand the concept, you must accept this concept, and most importantly, you have to fight and defend this concept. This is about Freedom and not free stuff. And that is why I am standing up here.”
That was absolutely true, not so very long ago. The United States was certainly was the best – and it was unique. It was populated by Americans. These Americans made it special.
But that United States no longer exists, except as an ideal. Moreover, the geography it occupied has been co-opted by the United States, which today is run by globalists who treat it just like another nation-state. And, most unfortunately, one that’s become especially predatory toward its citizens.
It has.
The United States has changed. It no longer is what it was first intended to be.
In the 1960’s, when I was a young boy there was no such thing as the “Federal Police” – The DHS. We fought wars, but only one at a time. While there were taxes, but we didn’t need to have both parents work just to GET BY.
The United States has changed.
President Ronald Reagan tells it like it is. No one listened. Those presidents that followed him ignored his warning and the nation has suffered considerably since.
The United States is no longer the freedom loving land that it was established as. With each law, was a removal and limitation on freedom. Today, the laws are voluminous, with over two centuries of freedom limitations and restrictions.
Liberty does not thrive when you must pee in a cup to get a job.
Freedom is never having to ask permission to eat, drink or do something with your own body.
We need to take a good hard look at our life inside the United States. We need to make comparisons to what it was like for our parents, our grandparents, and our founders to see how far changed and different our life is today. It is only through these comparisons that we can see if our excuses to look outside “of the box” has any merit.
Real Americans yearn for a life where they do not ever need to prove themselves, ask permission to do anything, or maintain records of their activities. Real Americans yearn for Liberty.
In the British colonies, an early version of the DHS (the Department of Homeland Security) seizes a citizen under the suspension of Habeas Corpus during a “no-knock” raid. We need to look at our history using modern terminology and situations to truly appreciate our past.
“My parents and grandparents were born here; I have roots in this country.”
True. This is a truth that many of us have. It is a truth that I have. Though, truthfully, my grandparents immigrated here from Europe. The life that they found here was better than what they left.
Can I say truthfully that the life that my grandparents left – as it is today – as worse, the same or better than what I have as an a American? If being an United States citizen places you at ANY kind of disadvantage, then the liberties that was promised to you by them are lost.
This idea is based on the concept that here; in the United States that you have a place to live free under liberty. For that is what Americans yearn for. It is a chance to better the lives of your children.
The United States was founded by Americans FOR Americans.
It has since changed.
This idea of United States being for Americans with American values, was at one time true. You could really provide a decent standard of living for your family and your extended family. But this is no longer true.
It has been taken over by people who no longer share the American values. Today the only people who have a chance at a successful life are the privileged.
Nothing should be a greater slap in the face of balance and equality as to how Hillary Clinton is treated by the oligarchy. When you have a shoplifter getting 100 year prison terms, and a serial criminal getting no punishment, obviously the scales of justice are completely out of wack and no longer functional.
For we live in a stratified society today.
It is a society that benefits from having multiple balkanized groups of disparate people. A handful of wealthy oligarchs profit from this arrangement, while the rest of the nation suffers. This is the r/K strategy, and it is alive and thriving in the United States today. The r/K strategy benefits the wealthy.
When people start to refer to “the rich”, and we have two sets of laws; one for the rich and one for everyone else. Then, we know that that our “roots” and history in this nation is on a short leash. Soon, the leash will get shorter and shorter and the world that we grew up in will no longer exist, and what ever roots we had will be of no consequence.
The idea that America still represents the people that live there is an outdated concept that no longer has any validity. The situation has reversed itself and as time increases, it is becoming more an more untenable for the inhabitants of middle America.
Now, I do understand. This is an understandable emotion; everyone has an atavistic affinity for his place of birth. This includes our friends as well. If you buy this argument, then it’s clear your forefathers, who came from Europe, Asia, or Africa, were made of sterner stuff than you are.
Buck up and be a man. Things change. Situations change, and we have the responsibility to move with the changes. We owe it to ourselves and to our children.
A real American fights for Freedom, Liberty and Justice when there is a reasonable chance in obtaining them.
However, when the situation is untenable and the ability to procure the basic needs required of an American is no longer attainable, then the real American relocates elsewhere in the direction toward real freedom and real liberty.
We see this with many Americans home schooling their children. We see this with many Americans moving out of progressive socialist enclaves like California, Detroit, and Baltimore. We see this with many Americans wanting to put the brakes on unlimited immigration and the resultant balkanization of the United States.
We see this today. It’s all over the news. It’s just not framed in this kind of understanding. It is framed in other terms…
“Trump is trying to limit the options of other global citizens who only want a small piece of the American pie.”
“No way! I’m not going to be unpatriotic.”
Patriotism is one of those things very few even question and even fewer examine closely. I’m a patriot, you’re a nationalist, he’s a jingoist. But let’s put such a tendentious and emotion-laden subject aside.
Here, I am going to make my stance clear on this matter. Being an “Patriotic American”, is an American (that follows the criteria of the American ideal) that supports other like-minded Americans.
Being a patriotic American is NOT saying proudly that you support the Untied States, and all the people in the nation. For that is ludicrous. That is like saying that you support everyone, everything, all the time. It does not make sense.
Yet, if you query any Internet search engine, that is what you will discover.
In their minds American Patriotism is blind support for the United States government in everything that it does.
In that understanding, patriotism is support for the seven far off wars that the United States is currently fighting. (Hey! Quick sanity check; can you actually identify the seven nations that we are fighting. Quick…3…2…1… identify them.)
Today a true patriot – an effective patriot – would be acting on his / her own beliefs. These beliefs would be fundamentally founded on the basic principles of freedom and liberty. And a real patriot understands that America is not a place; it’s an idea. It deserves to be spread.
America is not a place. It is an idea; an idea of liberty and freedom to pursue life with the tools that God granted us. If you are somewhere where the tree of liberty is withering, you have the responsibility to either tend to it, or leave. A true American lives a life in Liberty.
A real American does not NEED a place to define who or what he is. Being an American is an idea, and an ideal. A true American live a life of freedom and liberty. If where he lives does not permit that kind of life, he moves elsewhere where he can live and flourish.
A True American patriots would act in terms of liberty and freedom, and would support other (like minded) patriots.
“The best work is here where I am. I might not be able to earn a decent living elsewhere.”
Spoken like a person with little imagination and even less self-confidence. And, likely little experience or knowledge of economics. Seriously.
For many, many years, perhaps a good solid century the United States was THE place where you went to invent things, build things, produce things, and sell things. America was the only place where there was a sizable middle class that would purchase your products. America was the only place where you could get your products made. America was the only place where you could build up your life from scratch.
Times have changed.
The rest of the world does not look anything like it is portrayed on CNN, MSNBC or WaPo. It does not look like it is portrayed on FOX or Drudge either. The rest of the world is carrying on. They are living life… on their terms.
There are growing and sizable middle class communities all over the globe. You can find them in such diverse places as Argentina, Namibia, Lithuania, and China. These growing communities hunger for products. They yearn for technology. They welcome investment, and growth.
Yet closing your eyes and pretending that ONLY the United States has a middle class is a siren song. It’s a “feel good” belief that is an illusion. It prevents you from seeing what really is. That is dangerous.
Buck up! You are an American. We came from the likes of David “Davy” Crockett, James Bowie, Paul Revere, and William B. Travis. They weren’t afraid of anything. Yet, here we are today.
A real American welcomes others, of like mind, to join us. In our minds, the world would be a far better place with everyone living as an American tending to their families and bettering their communities. Don’t forget who and what you are!
You are an American!
A true American can live and thrive anywhere on the planet. In point of fact, though, it tends to be easier to earn big money in a foreign country, because you will have knowledge, experience, skills, and connections the locals don’t. Even at the bare minimum, you can speak English. Couple that with any working skills that you have picked up over the years, and you might be pleased to discover just how much of an expert you actually are.
In the movie “Joe vrs the volcano”, the character Joe Banks was miserable living a life without freedom and liberty. Then, when given the change for adventure (with a terminating finality) he takes it and discovers that there is more to life living for money and security. He is the quintessential American.
BTW… Being an American is not defined by gender or culture.
The really great thing about being an American is that it is an attitude and a way of life. Anyone can be an American. A man, a woman, a transgender, a gay person… or anyone of those mysterious other genders (that I am still not clear on) can become an American. All you need to have is a strong inner yearning for Freedom and Liberty.
It is that yearning for freedom and liberty the right to be left alone…followed by the right to be forgotten are very important to the American.
Americans tend to be hard-working salt-of-the-earth types. You won’t find them sitting on a latte in Starbucks, protesting some injustice way off in Africa, or demanding a handout. They work for a living and provide for their families.
And, yes, you do not have to reside inside the United States to be an American. I have met people all over the world that are far more “American” than many United States citizens I see about. Oh, you know who I am taking about; those folk in the welfare lines, riding scooters inside wal-mart, or protesting in frilly pink hats.
When every anyone hyphenates their name, using the terms like African-American or Indian-American, or Cuban-American they are not being an American. They are identifying themselves as something else entirely. They might as well call themselves a resident of Talfamadore. That is how out of touch they are with what an American stands for.
Americans view themselves simply thus. They have no need to segregate themselves into some other kind of sub-class or group.
“I am unhappy, but I don’t have enough capital to start my own company, change my life, or make a move.”
Well, that was one thing that kept serfs down on the farm. Capital gives you freedom. On the other hand, a certain amount of poverty can underwrite your freedom, since possessions act as chains for many. For me, I didn’t experience true and real freedom until I lost just about everything that I had.
Possessions are limiting.
Wal-mart shoppers in line for their weekly run. Since when did the United States government start providing motorized carts for the obese? Since when did people start needing them to buy groceries. This picture sums up what is wrong with the Untied States today. It is no longer the land of Americans.
A real American doesn’t need them. A real American can pick up with nothing in a strange land and build up a life from scratch. Remember, being an American is a concept; an idea. It’s not a place.
Being an American is portable. You carry it with you no matter where you go. You have a feeling of self worth, and ability. When the need comes, an American will do what ever it takes to build his / her life from nothing.
Ron Swanson. I am an American. Know what this is all about. Do not fall for the illusion that being a United States citizen makes you an American. It does not.
Many United States citizens cannot do this. They are too afraid, too tied to the government, and living off the meager handouts provided to them. Whether it is food subsidies, medical attention, or reduced bus fares. They vote for more “free” stuff. They demand a paternal government.
As a result many United States citizens are becoming fat and lazy. They demand their “free stuff”. They exchange their liberty and freedom for glitzy baubles and commercially promoted gizmos. It is so insidious that even our pets are becoming overweight.
Todays’ culture in the United States does not promote the ideas of liberty and freedom. It promotes sloth and a lazy culture demanding immediate gratification. It has even affected our pets.
Real Americans are so unlike these domesticated cattle that it just amazes me that they are considered to be Americans at all.
“I don’t want to give up my U.S. citizenship to live as an American should.”
There’s no need to.
I advise that every real American to live his or her life in freedom and liberty. If you can still do so in the United States, that is fantastic. Surround yourself with other like minded Americans, and teach your youth the importance of being an American.
However, there are very strong and large forces that are in the process of making the United States the antagonistic opposite of liberty and freedom. These people are a THREAT to all Americans, but most especially to you and your family.
America is not a democracy, though the 12th and the 17th amendments tried to make it that way. Now, America today is a bastardized mess with the worst elements of both a Republic and a mob-ruled Democracy. Ugh!
Yes, these people are a threat. Over time, their power has increased to a point where now they can seriously influence your freedom and liberty. I suggest that you do what you can to protect you and your family for their influence.
If you can, use what leverage you have at the county and state level. Make the changes needed for your happiness. If you cannot, then a serious reconsideration of life outside the United States is warranted.
Real Americans are unhappy unless they are living a life of freedom and liberty. Their very being screams for this. If they can no longer achieve it in the Untied States, they must reluctantly move elsewhere and work towards a life living elsewhere.
“The United States is a democracy with freedom for everyone.”
If you think we still have a democracy or a democratic republic, ask yourself this: When was the last time Congress did something that the people of America supported that did not align with corporate interests? … You probably can’t do it
Oh, and by the way, the ability to vote does not define freedom.
They vote in communist nations. They vote in dictatorships. They vote in totalitarian nightmares. Voting is an illusion that rulers give to common people to give them the illusion that they have some degree of control.
If America was truly supportive of the people, then the internal American government would be supportive of this ideal. However, it is not. They run and operate against this idea and concept. They are supportive of the oligarchy and fight violently anyone that opposes them.
Everything they do has to do with corporate and personal interests. Trying to find them do something that is for the citizens alone is just about impossible. It’s like trying to think of something that rhymes with “orange.”
You feel like an answer exists but then slowly realize it just doesn’t.
Even the democrat think-tank at the Carter Center and even the former President Jimmy Carter believe that America has been transformed into an oligarchy. This is where a small, corrupt elite control the country with almost no input from the people.
There’s some news stories: “Senate Easily Passed Trump-Backed Criminal Justice Reform Bill.” There are 87 votes in the Senate for it, and yet things the American people have expressed for decades that they want, have voted over and over and over again to say that they want, have sent somebody to Washington from outside the political system to get done, and there’s no hope.
There’s not a shining chance that this is gonna get done. And they gloat and they applaud and they celebrate in Washington over this. Some of this stuff is just so frustrating and maddening and defies any kind of common sense explanation.
This is swamp behavior at its best.
This is the greatest illustration of how much of a game all of this actually is. We’re made to think that it’s cutthroat and real. And, meanwhile, it’s just all a game, how this stuff happens, in Congress, in the House, in the Senate in Washington.
The rulers need the myth that we’re a democracy to give us the illusion of control.
The United States is an oligarchy. It was founded by Americans with the American values of liberty and freedom. However, other United States citizens, non-Americans all, altered it into a democracy that has evolved into an oligarchy. It is not the place where Americans can find happiness any longer.
The truth is that the United States was founded as a Republic to provide freedom and liberty for like-minded Americans. Then, in short order non-Americans who were elected to office, altered the constitution by the 12th and 17th amendments to make the United States into a democracy.
I cover this great travesty here…
People, while we have been bombarded with the notion that the best type of government is through “rule by mob”; a democracy. that is a big lie and deception. For it puts vast amount of power into the hands of a corrupt few.
I write about it here..
And, along these lines…
“America has an accountable and legitimate voting system. I don’t want a dictatorship.”
Sure. What ever you want to believe. Though, most people stop believing in the Easter Bunny at 5 years old. And Santa Claus at seven years old.
Gerrymandering, voter purging, data mining, broken exit polling, push polling, super-delegates, electoral votes, black-box machines, voter ID suppression, provisional ballots, super PACs, dark money, third parties banished from the debates and two corporate parties that stand for the same goddamn pile of fetid crap!
Even a casual observer, overseas, and outside of the Untied States media bubble can see this. Either [1] you are too stupid to see what is directly in front of your eyes, or [2] you do not want to face the reality and the consequences of what that reality means.
My guess is that most people do not want to face the truth. For the implications of it and what it means are ugly. I write about it here…
The elections in the United States today are all just political theater. The politics in the United States today are all just theater. The mainstream news, and even elements of the alternative news, are all theater.
America’s election system is broken. It is filled with fraud of different types and so many problems that the results of elections rarely represent the will of the people.
What part of this sounds like a legitimate election system?
No, we have what a large Harvard study called the worst election system in the Western world. Have you ever seen where a parent has a toddler in a car seat, and the toddler has a tiny, brightly colored toy steering wheel so he can feel like he’s driving the car? That’s what our election system is—a toy steering wheel. Not connected to anything. We all sit here like infants, excitedly shouting, “I’m steeeeering!”
And I know it’s counter-intuitive, but that’s why you have to vote. We have to vote in such numbers that we beat out what’s stolen through our ridiculous rigged system.
Americans need to vote, and make sure that non-Americans cannot. The election process needs to be fixed, else the United States continue the dark road towards enslaved serfdom.
Real Americans live for their freedom and liberty. When someone or something works to steal that and take that away from them, they take actions to secure it. Americans simply cannot live as kept creatures surviving off handouts from the government. They whither and dies. Those that survive take drugs and opioids to make their existence tolerable.
“We have an independent media that reports news and keeps the elected officials accountable.”
Ah. Have you been watching the American media lately?
Translation: “We’ve done everything we could! We’ve lied about him. We’ve tried to find the truth. We’ve tried to make everybody hate this guy, and they’re getting tired of us telling you about it!”
So rather than slink away and go away, they add to it. They ratchet it up.
“Murphy went on to say that she believed that negative news about Trump hurt Republicans in the midterms. ‘I do think that he has paid a price if you look at the results of the midterm election, and so I don’t think people are turning a blind eye,’ she said.
“‘I think their one mechanism to show “hey, this bothers me,” “hey, this upsets me,” is through voting,'” and who knows if there’s a point to that. Pfft!
How does this stuff not hurt to some extent? I mean, that’s its purpose.
Our media outlets are funded by weapons contractors, big pharma, big banks, big oil and big, fat hard-on pills. (Sorry to go hard on hard-on pills, but we can’t get anything resembling hard news because it’s funded by dicks.)
The mainstream press media are considered and called “fake news” because they do not report news. They are comprised of entertainers who’s job is to manipulate the public.
The corporate media’s jobs are to rally for war, cheer for Wall Street and froth at the mouth for consumerism. They are primarily a collection of globalist progressive liberals with an inherent belief that government should take on a parental role, while the rest of the population obeys their dictates.
American media are elite that live within their own bubble of reality. they report DOWN to the United States citizenry.
It’s their mission to actually fortify belief in the myths I’m telling you about right now. Anybody who steps outside that paradigm is treated like they’re standing on a playground wearing nothing but a trench coat.
No one in the media holds Congress accountable for anything…
Your tax dollars at work.
“We have an independent judiciary that will give me a fair shake if I ever get into trouble.”
The criminal justice system has become a weapon wielded by the corporate state. This is how bankers can foreclose on millions of homes illegally and see no jail time, but activists often serve jail time for nonviolent civil disobedience.
Anyone who still believes this myth after the huge amount of inaction by Attorney general Rip Van Sessions should be ashamed of themselves.
Chris Hedges recently noted, “The most basic constitutional rights … have been erased for many. … Our judicial system, as Ralph Nader has pointed out, has legalized secret law, secret courts, secret evidence, secret budgets and secret prisons in the name of national security.”
If you’re not part of the monied class, you’re pressured into releasing what few rights you have left. According to The New York Times, “97 percent of federal cases and 94 percent of state cases end in plea bargains, with defendants pleading guilty in exchange for a lesser sentence.”
That’s the name of the game. Pressure people to take the plea deal because they don’t have a million dollars to spend on a lawyer. (At least not one who doesn’t advertise on beer coasters.)
The United States judiciary no longer serves Americans. They serve the interests of the monied elite. To these people, you and your family, are just resources from which they can extract from what they may and discard the rest.
“The police are here to protect you. They’re your friends.”
That’s funny. I don’t recall my friend pressuring me into sex to get out of a speeding ticket. (Which is essentially still legal in 32 states.)
The police in our country are primarily designed to do two things: protect the property of the rich and perpetrate the completely immoral war on drugs—which by definition is a war on our own people.
Justice is no longer blind in the Untied States. There is no longer equal justice for all. The scales are so obviously corrupted that it might just be beyond redemption. We might need to destroy everything and start all over again.
We lock up more people than any other country on earth. Meaning the land of the free is the largest prison state in the world. So all these droopy-faced politicians and rabid-talking heads telling you how awful China is on human rights or Iran or North Korea—none of them match the numbers of people locked up right here under Lady Liberty’s skirt.
Americans cannot practice freedom and liberty in the United States. You risk fines and jail time for smoking in a restaurant, driving without a seat-belt, eating sunny-side up eggs, or using a plastic straw in some locations. That is not freedom. Especially when it comes with career-ending, family-ruining penalties.
“Buying things will make you happy.”
This myth is put forward mainly by the floods of advertising we take in but also by our social engineering.
Most of us feel a tenacious emptiness, an alienation deep down behind our surface emotions (for a while I thought it was gas). That uneasiness is because most of us are flushing away our lives at jobs we hate before going home to seclusion boxes called houses or apartments. We then flip on the TV to watch reality shows about people who have it worse than we do (which we all find hilarious).
United States citizens are cattle for a select few can profit from.
If we’re lucky, we’ll make enough money during the week to afford enough beer on the weekend to help it all make sense. (I find it takes at least four beers for everything to add up.) But that doesn’t truly bring us fulfillment.
So what now?
Well, the ads say buying will do it. Try to smother the depression and desperation under a blanket of flat-screen TVs, purses and Jet Skis. Now does your life have meaning? No? Well, maybe you have to drive that Jet Ski a little faster! Crank it up until your bathing suit flies off and you’ll feel alive!
As if being told to buy things isn’t enough, the system is rigged so that the government and the rich oligarchs profit from all transactions. There are taxes and fees associated with everything you do. There is no escape from them. Like it or not. These go to many things, but the narrative that it’s all for bridges and roads far way short when other nations with much less tax revenue have better roads and bridges than the Untied States has.
The dark truth is that we have to believe the myth that consuming is the answer or else we won’t keep running around the wheel. And if we aren’t running around the wheel, then we start thinking, start asking questions. Those questions are not good for the ruling elite, who enjoy a society based on the daily exploitation of 99 percent of us.
The United States has turned into a huge resource farm. The resource consists of the United States citizenry, what they consume, what they do, and how they behave. True Americans cannot thrive in this environment, as it is inherently unhealthy.
“If you work hard, things will get better.”
This is an obvious lie. Yet few understand it.
I am reminded by the movie “Joe vs the Volcano”. For it speaks volumes in this instance…
Joe Versus the Volcano gives 20 minutes of its
hour-and-42-minute runtime to the horrors of Joe’s job at American
Panascope (Home of the Rectal Probe). And it’s significant that the
first thing we see as people trudge to their jobs is Joe literally
losing his sole.
I’ve never seen the soul-sucking despair of a bad job summed up better than in this scene. And as if that hellish circular conversation isn’t enough, there’s the green light, the buzzing flourescents, the coffee that can best be described as ‘lumpy’, and the coworkers, who are just as sad and defeated as Joe.
Watching this, I’m reminded of all the crap jobs I’ve taken to pay my bills, which I can only assume was the point: rather than the fairytale careers of most rom-coms, JVtV was trying to dig closer to the exhaustion that lies at the heart of American capitalism.
Against this despair, Joe makes only a single palliative gesture: bringing a musical lamp in as a Band-Aid to a gushing wound.
The first 20 minutes of the film are so bleak, in fact, that when Joe is finally diagnosed with a terminal ‘braincloud’ his impending death comes as a relief. This moment is even coded as comforting in the film: where Mr. Waturi’s basement is a hideously green, fluorescent dungeon, the doctor’s office is warm and wood paneled, lit by small glowing lamps and a roaring fire. It’s the first inviting space we’ve seen in the film, and we’re only there, with Joe, to learn that he’s going to die.
Then we’re shunted back to the office, where we have to confront the realities of capitalism again. Joe doesn’t have any savings, he can’t afford to go on a final trip, there’s a hole in the bucket list, but Joe has to quit.
Even with that horror written on his face, he uses his last moments at American Panascope to appeal to his boss and coworkers. Surely they can see that life in this office is actually a living death?
When Waturi, sneers at him, “I promise you, you’ll be easy to replace!”
Joe snaps, pushes Waturi against the wall, and yells,
“And why, I ask myself, why have I put up with you? I can’t imagine, but now I know. Fear. Yellow freakin’ fear. I’ve been too chicken shit afraid to live my life so I sold it to you for three hundred freakin’ dollars a week! My life! I sold it to you for three hundred dollars a week! You’re lucky I don’t kill you!”
This is the first time it becomes explicit: Joe has been selling his life without questioning the transaction (the way most of us do), and only now that he sees an endpoint does he realize how much more he was worth. This distillation of life into money is made even more explicit the next morning, when Samuel Graynamore shows up at his door.
According to Deloitte’s Shift Index survey: “80% of people are dissatisfied with their jobs” and “[t]he average person spends 90,000 hours at work over their lifetime.” That’s about one-seventh of your life—and most of it is during your most productive years.
Are you living the rat race? Is your life a constant struggle and then you get a paycheck so you can buy things? Well, that is the life in the United States. However, that is not the way it is in the rest of the world. There is balance.
Ask yourself what we’re working for. To make money? For what? Almost none of us are doing jobs for survival anymore. Once upon a time, jobs boiled down to:
I plant the food—>I eat the food—>If I don’t plant food = I die.
But nowadays, if you work at a café—will someone die if they don’t get their super-caf-mocha-frap-almond-piss-latte? I kinda doubt they’ll keel over from a blueberry scone deficiency.
If you work at Macy’s, will customers perish if they don’t get those boxer briefs with the sweat-absorbent-ass fabric? I doubt it. And if they do die from that, then their problems were far greater than you could’ve known.
So that means we’re all working to make other people rich because we have a society in which we have to work. Technological advancements can do most everything that truly must get done.
This is what work and what a career has become in the United States today. I argue that this kind of consumer-focused life is not acceptable for Americans who live for liberty and freedom.
So if we wanted to, we could get rid of most work and have tens of thousands of more hours to enjoy our lives. But we’re not doing that at all. And no one’s allowed to ask these questions—not on your mainstream airwaves at least. Even a half-step like universal basic income is barely discussed because it doesn’t compute with our cultural programming.
Scene from the movie “Joe vs the Volcano”. Americans yearn for freedom. When we work at a job that stifles this freedom we become unhappy. We become sick. We become ill. Remember back in the 1990’s when we had the term “going postal”? It is a natural progression of what happens when freedom and liberty are suppressed.
Scientists say it’s quite possible artificial intelligence will take away all human jobs in 120 years. I think they know that will happen because bots will take the jobs and then realize that 80 percent of them don’t need to be done! The bots will take over and then say, “Stop it. … Stop spending a seventh of your life folding shirts at Banana Republic.”
One day, we will build monuments to the bot that told us to enjoy our lives and … leave the shirts wrinkly.
There are many misconceptions about work. In the United States today, work is a tool used to control. However, it doesn’t need to be that way. A true and real American can identify what work is necessary and what work is trivial. He / she can balance their life and work without interruption from an intrusive government or legions of busybodies.
And this leads me to the largest myth of our United States society.
“You are free.”
I’m not talking about the millions locked up in our prisons. I’m talking about you and me.
As I have mentioned elsewhere, freedom is the ability to sit down at a restaurant with your dog, smoke a cigarette, drink a beer and eat a dish of sunny-side-up eggs without having the police called on you. Freedom is the ability to drive without worrying if you will get pulled over by the police.
I understand there are certain restrictions on freedom we actually desire to have in our society—maybe you’re not crazy about a big pile of shit awaiting you in the middle of your walk to work. But a lot of our lack of freedom is not something you would vote for if given the chance.
Try smoking a cigarette with your breakfast and coffee at the Waffle House.
Try sleeping in your car for more than a few hours without being harassed by police.
Try bringing your dog into a McDonalds and having a big Mac with him.
Try maintaining your privacy for a week without a single email, web search or location data set collected by the NSA and the telecoms.
We are less free than a dog on a leash. We live in one of the hardest-working, most unequal societies on the planet with more billionaires than ever.
Meanwhile, Americans supply 94 percent of the paid blood used worldwide. And it’s almost exclusively coming from very poor people. This abusive vampire system is literally sucking the blood from the poor. Does that sound like a free decision they made? Or does that sound like something people do after immense economic force crushes down around them? (One could argue that sperm donation takes a little less convincing.)
Point is, in order to enforce this illogical, immoral system, the corrupt rulers—most of the time—don’t need guns and tear gas to keep the exploitation mechanisms humming along. All they need are some good, solid bullshit myths for us all to buy into, hook, line and sinker. Some fairy tales for adults.
It’s time to wake up.
I would like to reemphasize that it’s pure foolishness to have your loyalties dictated by the lines on a map or the dictates of some ruler. The nation-state itself is on its way out. Oh, the one wold order may never materialize, but the ideas of nations that represent the joint will of the citizens may never be wholly recoverable.
We need to carve our a home for fellow Americans where ever we are, and secure it from encroachment.
Dangerous Encounter. Real Americans fight and strive for liberty and freedom.
The world is changing. Over time it will increasingly be aligned with what we call phyles, groups of people who consider themselves countrymen based on their interests and values, not on which government’s ID they share.
Americans need to gyrate to an American-phyle and realize that entire swaths of the physical United States no longer welcome us.
I believe the sooner you start thinking that way, the freer, the richer, and the more secure you will become. You heard me correctly. Real Americans do not NEED the United States. The United States needs us.
The United States is populated with non-Americans
As long as we allow them to vote, and dictate their desires the United States will continue it’s downward spiral towards mediocrity. It is the duty of all Americans to either take control of this situation or leave it and protect our families before it is too late.
The United States is populated with non-Americans. Unless action is taken promptly there will no longer be any chance for recovery.
Conclusion
There are many lies that have developed over the years that have become accepted as given truths. They should not ever be considered a truth at all. As such, evil people have twisted these beliefs into something dangerous and are using these twisted narratives to control real Americans. Do not let them do this to you.
The United States is a geographical area.
It was initially set up as a Republic for like-minded Americans.
Americans place liberty and freedom first on their priority list.
Over the years the United States has changed.
Today, Americans are a minority in the United States
As such, Americans have two choices. They either can actively try to Change the Untied States back to be the home for Americans or leave for greener pastures. There are no other alternatives. There isn’t a middle ground, and sitting on the sidelines expecting an elected President to do it all on his own is lazy and unbecoming of an American.
When dealing with things that are important to us, we sometimes need to make a statement; a point. Sometimes it is necessary to paddle an out-of-control child, imprison an out-of-control lunatic, and shoot a dog with rabies. Americans cannot wait until others take on this role.
I know what freedom is, and it is not what the Progressives want us to believe it is. A person who is free is never afraid.
A person who is FREE is never afraid.
Here’s a shout out for FREEDOM!
Here
is a shout out for real freedom. There is nothing better than living
life on your own terms, and doing so without guilt or regret. That is
what true and real freedom and liberty is all about.
Here’s to the freedom to speak your mind without fear! (Image Source.)
I will end with this final comment on the movie “Joe vs the Volcano”;
The film’s point is …” The point of the journey is to make thoughtful choices about how to live, and the volcano is life itself.
The original title for this post was “Excuses that keep us enslaved.” Changed on 31DEC18.
Posts Regarding Life and Contentment
Here are some other similar posts on this venue. If you enjoyed this
post, you might like these posts as well. These posts tend to discuss
growing up in America. Often, I like to compare my life in America with
the society within communist China. As there are some really stark
differences between the two.
More Posts about Life
I have broken apart some other posts. They can best be classified
about ones actions as they contribute to happiness and life. They are a little different, in subtle ways.
Stories that Inspired Me
Here are reprints in full text of stories that inspired me, but that
are nearly impossible to find in China. I place them here as sort of a
personal library that I can use for inspiration. The reader is welcome
to come and enjoy a read or two as well.
When I was a youth, in the 1960’s and 1970’s, one of the biggest treats that my father would give us would be a trip to one of the nearby “Army and Navy” stores.
We would hop in the car, and then ride for a spell (depending on the direction) from a half an hour to an hour and a half drive. We would stop along the way to get a soft-serve cone at Dairy Queen, and then spend an hour or so in the store.
They all looked pretty much the same no matter where you went. The nearest ones to us, at that time, were in other towns. We would actually have to cross the country line to get to them. At that time, I frequented a store in Butler, Pa., and another one further up North in Erie, Pa.
I guess that they are a fading American cultural fixture today. They can still be found. However, they are mere shadows of what they used to be. Today, surplus stores can be found in strip malls in the rough part of town or as stand-alone warehouse-style buildings. In the later case, they might be a metal pole building with a huge “Army and Navy” sign in huge letters (often black on yellow) with corrugated metal roofing and very few windows.
For a boy growing up, the world of the Army and Navy store was the first stop and a doorway to adventure. When we entered the building we encountered the world that we dreamed about. here were places with maps, treasures and tools. We loved going through the boxes and exploring the nooks and crannies of the store.
Of course, today they might not advertise themselves so openly. With all the politically correct nonsense, it makes sense to downplay your presence else an army of enraged “water buffalo” BLM females, or black clad SJW types might burn the establishment down.
Anyways, it’s true.
The Big Treat!
When I was a boy, one of the biggest treats that my father would provide for we was a trip to a “Army and Navy Store”. We would drive to the store and park on the street. A quarter would allow us to park the car for the entire day, so usually my father would just put a nickel in the parking meter. That would give us two hours of adventure. That was more than enough time for exploration.
Who knew what surprises awaited us?
Swiss army phone dialer. This was a portable unit, obviously. Don’t ask me how it worked as I haven’t a clue. We can only assume that it was used in conjunction with other gear of some type.
Today, there are still Army and Navy stores, and they still have the same layout and ambience.
When you walk in, your nose is met with that distinct army surplus smell: musty canvas mixed with metal and rubber. Flags hang from the ceiling — an American flag, flags from the different branches of the military, and of course a fine yellow “Don’t Tread on Me” flag. There was always a “Confederate” “American Stars and Bars” flag, as well as the mandatory black MIA flag.
There will be racks and racks of clothing. Mostly uniforms and coats. There will be bins of shoes and socks. Webbing and just brick-a-brack that defies description.
Who knows what discoveries that await you at an Army and Navy surplus store/ You can find anything from Vietnam era boots to radio sets fight out of a B-52. It’s all yours for a price. It’s a boyhood adventure.
The Army and Navy Store
Every conceivable space in the store is filled with product. You’ll see bins scattered throughout the floor filled with gas masks, canvas duffle bags, canteens, and nylon combat belts. The shelves are jam-packed with combat boots, cargo pants, and helmets. And the coat racks are stuffed with pea coats and camo as far as the eye can see.
You would find racks upon racks of military clothing. Then, tucked in every imaginable nook and cranny, were boxes of unsorted clothing. Some in disarray, as if they came from a flea market. Others, nicely folded, but never used, as if they came directly from a warehouse or factory inventory.
Near the door would always be a glass counter and a display of the more valuable items. Inside the glass case, you’re likely to find antique military items like Nazi paraphernalia, guns used during WWI, and a plethora of knives. I always liked the “trench knives” that had a built-in set of brass knuckles.
Sometimes the Army and Navy store would be alone in it’s own house, while at other times it would occupy a store front in a seedy section of town. These stores were always quite unique and special.
You could always find compasses, maps, various metals, and all sorts of smaller brick-a-brack in these counters. There also, would be some fine cigarette lighters. Some old. Some new. Many would have military sayings or logos, but Harley Davidson, and the Southern “stars and bars” were always present and popular.
For decades, the army-navy surplus store was the go-to place for individuals looking to find a good deal on products to outfit themselves for camping or hunting. It was the place prepare for the apocalypse on the cheap, or simply pick up a stylish pea coat at a bargain price. For me and my classmates, it was a place of adventure.
For there, we could outfit ourselves for our next big exploratory adventure. Who doesn’t remember how the explorer’s outfitted themselves in the movie “Journey to the Center of the Earth”? For us, the Army and Navy store was THE place to outfit ourselves for our next adventure.
While I don’t recall wheels and piles of hemp rope, they did have rope in smaller quantities. This would include nylon and various other woven types aptly suited for a Naval excursion on the high seas, or perhaps useful for constructing a tree-house ladder. You know, to keep the girls out of the “He Man Woman Haters Club”.
Journey to the Center of the Earth (also called Jules Verne’s Journey to the Center of the Earth) is a 1959 adventure film adapted by Charles Brackett from the novel of the same name by Jules Verne. Göteborg’s widow, Carla (Arlene Dahl), who initially believed Lindenbrook was trying to capitalize on the work of her deceased husband, learns the truth of his secrets from her husband’s diary. She provides the equipment and supplies Göteborg had gathered, including much sought after Ruhmkorff lamps, but only on condition that she go along. Lindenbrook grudgingly agrees, and the four explorers and the pet duck are soon journeying into the Earth.
With the United States fighting in just about every obscure nook and cranny of the world (for reasons unrelated to National Security… but that’s a discussion for another time) there was such a glut of military surplus clothing and gear that Army and Navy stores were everywhere. It almost seemed like you could practically throw a rock in any direction and hit an army surplus store. They were prolific and played a vital role in distributing an over-abundance of government-issued supplies that accumulated during the last ten or so wars.
Outfitters for War!
After World War Two, the extreme excess of government-issued equipment (produced by America’s “arsenal of democracy”) combined to explode the growth and popularity of surplus stores. Indeed, huge amounts of wartime leftovers flooded the market.
Army and Nay surplus stores were filled with all sorts of military gear. You could get everything there. It was a boyhood dream.
Thanks to the United States’ significant involvement in the Vietnam War, army surplus stores were able to restock their dwindling WWII inventory with updated military surplus. If you visited a surplus store as a kid in the 1980s or early ‘90s, a lot of the stuff you saw was probably from Vietnam.
I know that that was the case with what I experienced. There would be a mixture of World War II, Korean War, and Vietnam War gear. In addition there was often a mixture of foreign military gear. I was able to pick up an Africa Korps pith helmet from World War II, and a French paratroop jumper camo cape.
Here is a military surplus desk combo. It includes a chair, a desk writing surface and some fine drawers. All designed for easy transport and quick storage.
To many, the period from after WWII and until the early 1990s could be considered the “Golden Age of Army Surplus Stores.” There was just so much stuff available, and it was so widely dispersed and easily accessible to the public. Instead of ordering something from a catalog, you just had to drive a few miles to one of the many surplus stores in your city.
You could get just about anything there. My brother picked up a World War two Morse code kit in a green canvas carry bag. Who knows the stories that it could tell? Was it dropped behind enemy lines and used by the French resistance? Was it a training device for British Naval saboteurs? Was it used to communicate the successful retaking of the Philippines? Ah, such secrets…
Typical selection of army and nay gear that you could get from a Army and Navy surplus store. One thing, you the reader probably don’t realize, is that these stores are common all over the world. They are available here in Communist China. You can get some great clothes dirt cheap, I’ll tell you what.
My good buddy ended up getting a trench shovel, and a flashlight that had a red lens cover on it. His younger brother picked up this set of dust google that looked like it belonged on the set of the “Rat Patrol” (a television show from the 1960’s). He wore them to the school, and for about a week he wore them every day (supposedly) in class until his teacher had to put his foot down and tell him enough was enough.
Tactical Parachute Shoulder Bag with Latch. Have a fashion-minded daughter? Give her this and see what she might do with it.
Speaking of fashion…
The “Bell Bottom” fad in the late 1960’s came in being precisely due to the popularity of the navy flared (bell bottom) jeans available in the Army and Navy. This was also true for the “Pea Coat” fad that floated up and around in the middle 1970’s.
For the longest time I wore a pair of “aviator glasses that I picked up when I was twelve. My brother, not to be outdone, bought some yellow shooter’s glasses. He still has them. I still go visit the establishments to pick up some cargo pants and gloves with the fingers cut off.
Who knows what vintage discoveries await the boy within the confines of an Army and Navy store. What is there? What elements of history awaits the boy who is ready for discovery?
Yeah. Army surplus stores still exist. You probably have one in your city. But it’s probably not the same kind of army surplus store you may have visited back when you were a kid. It might still have the smells and have the same kind of over all clutter, but something is missing…
If you’ve been to one recently, you likely noticed that fewer of the products they carried were actually “military surplus.” Sure, the stuff might look military-ish, but it was likely bought from a foreign company that manufactures military-ish products instead of from the U.S government, or even a foreign government.
Here is a nice German army shirt. You can tell by the tiny flag on the sleeve as well as the camo pattern. You can find all sorts of military gear in today’s army and navy stores.
Other stuff…
You’ll also see product in the store that you probably wouldn’t consider “military surplus” like work pants and shirts, consumer camping gear, etc. In short, what I am trying to say is that in today’s army surplus stores there’s less army surplus.
Two big factors are contributing to the decline of true military surplus products in the marketplace. These were, or course, [1] the changing nature of war in the late 20th century and [2] the advent of online shopping.
Polish field switchboard. It’s amazing what finds that be discovered when you venture forth into an Army and Navy surplus store.
While the United States is indeed busy fighting all over the world, how we do it has changed. (The US Military is currently fighting seven wars! Thanks to Barrack Obama.) No longer do we throw legions of troops in an engagement. Instead we use selection. We use skilled soldiers. We use drones.
Indeed, war has changed dramatically since Vietnam.
Instead of engaging in large-scale conflicts that require a draft with many millions of soldiers fighting on the ground, the U.S. military (in all branches) has shifted to a much more streamlined and surgical approach to battle — one that involves a smaller, well-trained, all-volunteer force.
Whether you purchase American military surplus gear or foreign military surplus gear, the finds will certainly surprise. Who knows what little jewels can be found amoungst the clutter?
For example, there were over 10 million American soldiers who served in Vietnam, while only 2.5 million served in the most recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Because our most recent conflicts have required fewer soldiers, the military has required less equipment. Because the army requires less equipment, there’s less military surplus to go around to all the army surplus stores around the country.
But there are other reasons…
Companies that make military gear for the various alphabet agencies (IRS, CIA, FDA, FAA, ICE, DHS, etc…) supply Army and Navy stores as well. There, you can outfit your gear to include FBI tactical vests, light jackets emblazoned with the IRS logo, and all sorts of related gear.
That being said, 9-11 was a boon to the militarized police forces, and armed alphabet agencies. Now, every one from the NSA, FAA, FDA, IRS to the DHS and ICE require state of the art uniforms and gear. So while it might look like there as a dearth of “pure” military hardware, and a glut of cheap-Chinese knock-offs, that is just a reflection of the changing nature of the American government.
Today the emphasis is NOT on a large military force fighting in a far off land. Instead it is on a militarized collection of government agencies whose charter is on controlling the American population. It sounds harsh, but it is true. You just need to open up your eyes and take a gander. You can see this emphasis in the Surplus stores.
You can also read about how the United States government is busy stocking up on riot gear. You can read about it HERE.
Much of the gear found in Army and navy stores are representative of urban police forces and crowd control. Obviously all black uniforms are suitable for either the Nazi SS and Gestapo, the American IRS or the DHS. When fighting in a military theater, the best uniforms possess a camouflage pattern.
Compounding the shortage due to smaller, more limited military engagements is that — thanks to the internet — army surplus stores now have to compete with the government itself in selling surplus military inventory.
The U.S. government has an online store where the public can buy military surplus direct, thus cutting out the army surplus middleman and saving the buyer some money. Thanks to competition from the government’s direct-to-consumer sales, army surplus store owners have had to slash retail markups on their products from a plump 100% to a smaller 30-50%.
You can equip yourself and your loved ones with some pretty fine riot-gear. All you need to do is go to your friendly Army and Navy store and get some of their surplus population control gear. There are some great deals in batons, and protective padding.
The New World of Army and Navy Stores
Because of these two changes, the [1] streamlined wars and [2] the internet, the once robust army surplus store industry has taken a hit. There’s just less inventory to go around, and less money to be made in the business.
Who can forget the scene where Bruce Willis is in the Army and Navy store (or was it a pawn shop?) and decides to go after his tormentors. Ah, what a scene. As with the Kill Bill movie, the victor gets the truck (Pussy Wagon), or in this case the chopper.
To keep shelves stocked with military goods, even though there’s less government-issued military surplus available, stores have taken to importing military surplus “knockoff” products — stuff that looks like military surplus, but really isn’t. Instead it is equipment for urban riot control and police force use.
Some stores have shifted their focus from being military surplus dealers to antique military dealers. 20th-century military gear — once considered ordinary surplus — is now considered “vintage,” and collectors are willing to pay top dollar for these antiques. Army surplus stores that have been in business for awhile have used their networks developed over the years to become savvy peddlers of 20th-century military collectibles.
Never the less, if you’ve visited an army surplus store lately, you probably noticed they just aren’t what they used to be — that the quality and quantity of the selection of products isn’t the same.
But still…
These places are just fine for exploration and discovery. This is most especially true if you are a boy in your early teens. It’s an experience that all boys should be exposed to. (That and hardware stores, but that is a discussion for another time.)
Serbian Military Surplus Leather Magazine Pouches, 4 Pack, Used
These stores still exist, and the desire of boys to explore and go on adventures hasn’t at all diminished. I argue that we should feed this latent need of boys. As such, the exposure to an Army and Navy store is a must stop for all young Americans.
Conclusion
Time has a way of changing things. One of the treasures that existed when I was growing up was the presence of Army and Navy stores. I urge everyone to spend some time and enjoy a visit to one of the few remaining stores that exist in the United States. Who knows, maybe you can relive some forgotten boyhood dreams and share the experience with some close friends and relatives.
While today, I have little need for such items, I cannot help but be intrigued by them and coveting of many an odd item or two. I can’t help it. It’s the “pack rat” inside of me, not to mention the “Boy Scout” in me that screams “Be Prepared!” I am sure that one or two plastic mortar round cases might make a nice waterproof storage item for…
…things. I’ll find a use for them. You just wait and see.
Life & Happiness Related Index
Here is where you, the reader, can quickly go through key posts
related to the things that make our lives complete. This is an index. I
have arranged it so that the subjects can be easily searched for items
of interest. Of which “happiness” is the dominant theme. A tiny iconic
representation of the article is provided along with a short, sweet
summary. It is my hope that the reader find this of value.
Posts Regarding Life and Contentment
Here are some other similar posts on this venue. If you enjoyed this
post, you might like these posts as well. These posts tend to discuss
growing up in America. Often, I like to compare my life in America with
the society within communist China. As there are some really stark
differences between the two.
More Posts about Life
I have broken apart some other posts. They can best be classified
about ones actions as they contribute to happiness and life. They are a little different, in subtle ways.
Stories that Inspired Me
Here are reprints in full text of stories that inspired me, but that
are nearly impossible to find in China. I place them here as sort of a
personal library that I can use for inspiration. The reader is welcome
to come and enjoy a read or two as well.
This is a multi-part posting. The amount of content is enormous and the scope is too broad for a couple of paragraphs. Please follow the arrows to move between the different sections. Also note that this article covers a very politically-incorrect subject matter, and supporting photos and writings are very graphic. This is not for children or people of tender sensibilities.
...there are periods in history when the entire paradigm you’ve been accustomed to living under changes rather abruptly and for good. A change of this nature alters the entire game on a global basis and happens perhaps once in a lifetime. The last such shift happened during World War 2 and we’re living in the next one. How big of a change this will represent in the context of human history remains unknown, but we know it’s big. Really, really big.
The most significant challenge most of us face when confronted with such a moment is to remain focused and emotionally stable during the transition. This doesn’t suggest apathy, but it does mean staying grounded and not giving in to the constant news and pundit cycle of incensed outrage and anger about every single event that unfolds. After all, it’s important to recognize that almost everything you see in the news is a symptom of something far bigger happening in the background. Namely, that the global order most of the planet has known in the post-WW2 period is coming apart at the seams. If you don’t stay focused on the big picture, you’ll be easily and hopelessly manipulated without even knowing it.
-Liberty Blitzkrieg
What I intend to lay out here is that historically, there are predictable elements of societal evolution. These elements can be unsavory and distasteful, but that does not mean that they do not exist.
They do exist.
Historically, we know what has happened when there is conflict between a traditional society and a progressive socialist movement that has (or is in the process of gaining) the reigns of power in government.
We know what happens. It is a predictable, and well understood process. It is well documented.
When one side has the guns, and the other side does not, there can only be one outcome.
So we know what will happen… eventually when a progressive socialist movement tries to gain control of a government.
We are in the middle of the very beginnings of this in the United States. Here we discuss some very important points that other articles of this SHTF theme all leave out…
You will not know you are in danger until it is too late.
You will not know.
Once you are told to turn around and put your hands behind your back it will be too late. You will be lead politely into the vehicle. Then as door after door closes behind you, you will discover yourself in a position of disadvantage and you will be killed. It will happen and you won’t be aware of it until it is too late. Do you think this fellow was anticipating being killed the morning when he put on his shoes?
You will not know that you are in danger until it is too late.
You will NOT know you are in danger.
I had been living in Germany since 1988 and was living there when the shelling of Sarajevo, "my city" started. The best description of the state that I was in when the news reached me is simply: shock!
I always wonder how the people in Bosnia must have felt at this time. I was really panicked and kept phoning my friends in Sarajevo which remained possible for a couple of weeks after the bombing started.
I kept asking them what to do and what the situation was like over there. They told me about relatives of theirs who had fled into Sarajevo from smaller towns and villages throughout Bosnia and Hercegovina where they had witnessed the torturing and killing of people including small children.
They had witnessed the installing of concentration camps and other horrors. During these first months of the war in March, April and May 1992.
I was paralyzed - I spent weeks and weeks sitting on the couch watching television and reading the newspapers . I was totally unable to understand what was going on and I was waiting for someone to come and stop it.
-Biserinternational
When SHTF happens, it will be a very dangerous times. Do not be caught in the target hot area. Do not be caught unarmed. Do not try to hide in easily located places like attics or basements. Be ready.
One of the keys in socialist and Marxist control of a region is to get the citizenry to comply to their rules. They lie. They tell falsehoods. They set up false senses of security. They use children. They use the media.
Do not believe any of it.
Historically speaking, the lies will result in people dying.
1994 genocide in Rwanda. This followed the well documented model. Demonize a class of people. Then disarm them. Finally, herd them together under a blanket of lies, and kill them all.
The Outcome is Absolute and Predictable
The outcome of all state-sponsored genocide against a certain group of people is well recorded and predictable. Here is a photo from the Sierra Leone Civil War.
The outcome is absolute. Historically, with the exception of China (with the SJW uprisings), most progressive socialist movements eventually take over the reigns of government and mold it to their will. Those whom follow the traditional and often “old Style” of political discourse are eventually overwhelmed.
Once they gain power, they take over the government and mold it to their will. Suddenly the traditional symbols of government are co-opted and remolded into other purposes. This leads many traditionalists confused. This confusion sets up a perfect environment for the FULL implementation of their agenda.
German woman demanding her “Rights” when the German Federal Police come to take her and her family to a “resettlement farm” for their “safety” and “protection”. You know the places like Auschwitz. She obviously don’t want to go. Note that here were many other camps in German occupied Poland including Belzec, Majdanek, Sobibor, Treblinka, and Chelmno.
When the new progressive socialist government takes control, one of the first things that they do is hunt down and slaughter their opposition. Historically, that has been the conservative and traditional elements of the society. I am sorry to say this, but this is the historical truth.
Consider Bosnia…
"There used to be a law about weapons here, where I live, before the war. And yes, you could own a weapon but it was such a hard law that actually not too many people owned legal weapons.
And right when the (Shit Hit The Fan), first thing that happened was the confiscation of legal weapons, based on lists of who own legal weapons.
Now what people could do then was to say, “This is my legal weapon. I have a right to own it, by the law.”
...And those who did that usually got shot.
There were 20 heavily armed guys at your door asking nicely for your weapon, to be turned over to them in the name of “law” as an effort of a government that wanted to calm down a chaotic situation.
Sometimes if you said no, those guys would simply destroy the whole house with RPGs and bombs.
And guess what that meant?
Folks who owned legal weapon lost them even before the big SHTF. And a lot of guys who owned them in an illegal way hidden somewhere still own them when SHTF.
Illegal and legal have different meanings in different times and based who says those words, so think about it.
I am not saying that it will go like that there where you are. What I do say is you that you need to think a bit outside the box when it comes to owning things."
-Organic prepper
When the Khmer Rouge emerged from the civil war victorious and marched down the streets, thousands of terrified people fled, some rushing for the border with Thailand while others flooded the gates of the French Embassy. The massacres soon began and the Cambodian genocide was underway. The fighters who had stood up against the Khmer Rouge were executed en masse. Then the Khmer Rouge turned on civilians, driving the people into the countryside and killing thousands in the process. Soon, the Khmer Rouge was rounding up anyone who did anything that could be seen as capitalist. Selling a product or talking to anyone from the world beyond Cambodia’s borders was treated like an act of treason. Those caught were sent to so-called re-education camps like Tuol Sleng and Choeung Ek, a fate that nearly always meant getting tortured and killed.
It doesn’t take a brain surgeon or rocket scientist to figure this out. All you need to do is read one or two history books. Nothing being said now should be any shock to anyone even remotely versed in history. It’s a very well established progression of history.
Every progressive liberal socialist movement eventually goes full-on Pol Pot.
Do not think that in today’s “modern” and “enlightened” society that we are beyond mass genocide against a particular race, or group of people. Here are people who were seized out of their homes at the dead of night by militarized police (the Federal Police), handcuffed with wire-ties (behind his back) and then killed and dumped in a mass grave. Like this poor fella. I am quite sure that the person putting the wire-ties on his clasped wrists was very polite and nice about it. Cool and professional, most certainly. Then he was handed over to others. Those others then killed him like one would step on cockroach. And, with just as much care. What? You think America can’t relive the Bosnia experience?
What should be a shock is that the United States is destined to be one such nation. And you, dear boys and girls, are just about ready to be placed smack dab in ground zero for conflict. It will not be comfortable. It will not be pleasant. And, there will be those who will absolutely refuse to believe that it is happening.
They will come up with all kind of excuses. Such as “Sessions is playing 5D chess…you’ll see”, “Firearms confiscation will never occur in America.” and that great knee-slapper “Snopes fact checked it, and says that you are full of it.”
The genocide in Cambodia followed the well known and well defined pattern. Marxists take control. They disarm everyone. They propagandize against certain kinds of people. They use lies to escort them to “safe areas”. Then they kill them.
Remember when the Marxists took over Cambodia…
April 17, is a date that sends shivers down the spines of most Cambodians. On that day in 1975 the Khmer Rouge marched into Phnom Penh and took control of the country after almost five years of bitter fighting in the countryside.
Only a few photographers ventured onto the streets of Phnom Penh on April 17 and captured images of the victorious Khmer Rouge fighters entering the besieged city, taking enormous risks to photograph the mysterious communist guerillas who had a well-deserved reputation for brutality and taking no prisoners.
As the battle-hardened Khmer Rouge made their way into the city on the morning of April 17, none of the remaining foreign reporters and photographers who took refuge in the grounds of the French Embassy knew what to expect.
“I had seen the badly decomposed or disfigured corpses of Khmer Rouge soldiers on several occasions on the front line, but this was the first time I’d seen one alive,” said Neveu.
“At first nobody moved as we knew it was not a simple case of being brave of foolhardy. Then, just across the road, a few excited children holding hastily-made white flags above their heads walked out of a side street to meet the approaching guerrillas.
The Marxists now have complete control of the nation of Cambodia. They can do whatever is necessary to bring their idea of utopia to fruition. Most of which requires killing large number of “impure” and evil citizens.
“The ice was broken. Walking cautiously across the road, we approached the group, keeping an eagle eye on the whole area, feeling not entirely safe. The Khmer Rouge soldiers were probably enjoying their first moments of relative safety in many days since the operation to seize the city had begun.”
The calm did not last long. By early afternoon the Khmer Rouge were ordering all residents to leave the city with a minimum of belongings, the start of what turned out to be a death march for thousands. The city remained mostly empty until the Vietnamese invasion almost five years later.
“Some soldiers were shooting in the air in order to force the inhabitants to flee the city,” said Neveu.
When Marxists take over a city, crowd control will be very aggressive. The chances of survival is very slim. If you are caught in the middle of SHTF, do whatever is necessary to escape, survive and use evasion to protect you and your loved ones. Trust no one.
It has been estimated that at least 20,000 people perished during the evacuation of the capital. It marked the start of what the Khmer Rouge leaders called the “Year Zero” campaign, emptying towns and cities and forcing city-dwellers to become slave laborers in the countryside. By some accounts, Phnom Penh’s population dropped from two million to 25,000 in only three days.
Foreigners were ordered to move to the large grounds of the French embassy, and Neveu, Mabuchi and Rockoff joined them after spending the day roaming the city, talking photos of various Khmer Rouge units and government soldiers surrendering and handing over their arms, which were being piled up on street corners, overseen by Khmer Rouge cadres.
-The Day the Nightmare Started
Leadership will scurry.
When it seems like everything is beyond hope of redemption, the instigators of the conflict with evacuate and scurry to their “safe havens”. In the case of the United States, it will mean well fortified, and guarded locations, outside of the country. Such as underground lairs in NZ for the Software billionaires, and well fortified chateaus in Europe for the corrupt politicians.
This is not a win for team Trump, but it was inevitable, just as it was with Reagan. Conservatives would love to cut down our deficit and trim our budget back to size, but with three-quarters of our budget going to entitlements, there is no way forward without cutting those. Even if we halve the military budget (20%) we will achieve nothing. Even if we cut all programs across the board by 10% we will achieve nothing except debilitating them.
This is how democracy ends: it spends itself into oblivion, collapses the society, and a few rich industry leaders, union organizers, and politicians board planes for Switzerland with suitcases full of cash.
-Periscope
Do not expect any of the instigators to remain in the USA when SHTF. They never do.
Once the conflict escalates, those that sponsored the event will move to safe areas. These will be pre-prepared locations where they can continue their plotting without worry about repercussions. In Cambodia, the entire genocide was the end result of American and CIA machinations. Here is a last chopper leaving the nation.
In Cambodia, the American elite and their CIA covert operatives were bundled up by the United States Marines and evacuated out of the “Hot Zone”. They flew away and watched the nation burn.
Twelve helicopters, bristling with guns and U.S. Marines, breached the morning horizon and began a daring descent toward Cambodia's besieged capital. Residents believed the Americans were rushing in to save them, but at the U.S. Embassy, in a bleeding city about to die, the ambassador wept.
Forty years later, John Gunther Dean recalls one of the most tragic days of his life — April 12, 1975, the day the United States "abandoned Cambodia and handed it over to the butcher."
"We'd accepted responsibility for Cambodia and then walked out without fulfilling our promise. That's the worst thing a country can do," he says in an interview in Paris. "And I cried because I knew what was going to happen."
Five days after the dramatic evacuation of Americans, the U.S.-backed government fell to communist Khmer Rouge guerrillas. They drove Phnom Penh's 2 million inhabitants into the countryside at gunpoint. Nearly 2 million Cambodians — one in every four — would die from executions, starvation and hideous torture.
This happens EVERY TIME.
The instigators gather up their belongings, and what ever they can grab and flee. This has happened time and time again, and it just starting to happen in America RIGHT NOW.
That was the moment when serious reform and severe consequences for the criminal perpetrators of economic collapse could’ve reset the system and brought the world back to a sustainable path, but we all know that’s not what happened.
Instead, the “elites” in charge of addressing the situation decided instead to temporarily prop up a broken system while ensuring they’d be the primary beneficiaries of the specific polices that supposedly “saved the economy.”
In fact, nothing was saved. A dead system was put on life support while our self-proclaimed heroic elite grabbed everything not nailed down. A stealth crime spree that is ongoing to this day.
-Liberty Blitzkrieg
U.S. Marines come under Khmer Rouge fire while they were on the ground near the U.S. embassy during Operation Eagle Pull which evacuated American and embassy personnel in Phnom Penh, Cambodia, on April 13, 1975. (Tea Kim Heang/AP)
What to expect
The first thing that can be expected is mass disarming of the populace.
Once the Khmer Rouge took over and capture Phnom Penh in 1976, the disarmed everyone. Those that refused, that stood on their Rights as Cambodian citizens, were shot, and the entire family arrested. The weapons were collected in major road intersections and put in display so that everyone could see that the new Marxist government was fully in charge.
I am not going to rehash history. You should know this. The only thing that I must underline is that YOU are not immune from the steam-roller of historical events. They will occur whether you want them to or not.
Factory workers, with their company name badges, in the parking lot of their employer. Two dead and one dying with his legs shot off. He and his co-workers had no idea that “world war III” would break out while they were trying to clock in at work. When one group of people identify another group, and target them with hate, and violence, it only escalates. It gets worse. Eventually there is whole-scale blood shed. Do not be under the illusion that it will never happen in America. There are enormous groups of people just chomping at the bit to attack conservatives and traditionalists. All in the name of a progressive utopia.
If you haven’t read any history books by now, any statement from myself will be meaningless. So, I’m not going to do so.
Instead, I will lay out some of the characteristics that are common with every single progressive liberal socialist takeover of government. I will put them in terms that are applicable to Americans today…right now.
In the Country…
Urban youth, armed with fully automatic weapons, and RPG’s will burst forth and stream out of their protective enclaves. (Enclaves where their ideology has been nurtured for decades to hate one type or class of person.) They will ride forth in new cars and trucks. Sort of like how the ISS managed to get all those brand-new white Toyota trucks and turn them into “mechanicals”.
The people in the rural sections will have to fend for themselves, and they will have a tough go at it. There will be local Marxists in just about every village and town reporting on who to target and who has guns, etc. They will compile lists and they will provide those lists to their leadership in the cities.
The people in the rural areas, will be forced to go on the defensive. They will try to block the roads from whence the urban youth streams from, and they will have road-blocks and barriers as best they can, so that they can move their loved ones to safety.
The people, isolated and undefended, in the rural regions were dangerously exposed. Large packs of armed “militia”, actually ideological youth armed with military arms and on drugs and in an frenzy against perceived slights (“privilege” and “advantage”) as promoted by the media prior to the SHTF event. This is a scene in front of a “road block” that was set up by local residents to slow down the roving bands of armed urban youth. Their hope was that it would give them enough time to stream into the nearby cities for protection. The only thing was that the cities were all controlled by the very same people who set all the attacks in motion.
Paradoxically, this will mean that they will stream as refugees to apparent “safe areas” within urban areas. These areas will be controlled by the very people who have unleashed the terror.
In the cities…
The people, now pouring into the cities will be collected by the armed forces there. Most likely given to the Marxists who fully intended for this to occur.
The men will be separated from the women and the children.
During times of great turmoil, the odds of living after being handcuffed are mighty slim. Once you are in a confusing war zone, DO NOT EVER allow yourself to be handcuffed. The odds of survival are very slim. Know your history.
Most of the men will be killed immediately. Those rare exceptions would be those who would be tortured for various reasons to make a point to the remaining captives.
S 21 refers to “Monti Santesok S 21,” the main “security office” of Democratic Cambodia of the Khymer Rouge. Nearly 17,000 prisoners where imprisoned, tortured, interrogated and executed there between 1975 and 1979.
Only three of them are still alive.
All of the women will be dehumanized, raped and sent off to “collection centers”. There they will be provided dehumanizing clothing and attire, and raped until they are of no further use.
German Nationalist Socialists (Nazi’s) collected Jewish women. Stripped them, and provided them a roughly hewn sackcloth to wear, and a scarf to cover their head with. An uncovered woman is considered to be a threat. And used them as they felt necessary.
Everyone, and every moment will be documented to excess. It doesn’t matter if it was the Nazi’s with the Jews, the Soviets with other Soviets, the Khmer Rouge with their fellow citizens, or Americans against Americans. Each person will be interviewed, indexed, photographed, sheared, and categorized prior to execution.
Know your history.
Everyone, and every moment will be documented to excess. It doesn’t matter if it was the Nazi’s with the Jews, the Soviets with other Soviets, the Khmer Rouge with their fellow citizens, or Americans against Americans. Each person will be interviewed, indexed, photographed, sheared, and categorized prior to execution.
Prisoners, who included everyone from infants to grandparents, were brought in and tortured until they confessed they were either CIA or KGB operatives - even though many did not know what the CIA or KGB were. They were then further tortured until they "named" at least one other person who was also a CIA or KGB operative.
Then they were executed.
Nhem En, who was 16, was the house photographer. As each prisoner was brought in, he took their picture - a classic mug shot, the prisoner staring into the camera. He estimates he photographed 6,000 prisoners, knowing that all were about to die.
Cambodian soldier who turned in weapons as directed by his commander when the Marxists took power. Once disarmed, he was tied up and bound. Still in his army uniform. Photographed before being killed. This is the price you pay for not qualifying to live in a Marxist paradise. He was demonized for his “privilege”, attacked for his social irresponsibility, and tortured, well… because it was fun. He was then photographed and killed.
So much for the introduction.
The next six pages break down, in detail, how America is primed for a progressive Marxist genocide. Everything is in place. And make no mistake, many conservative politicians are on board with their Marxist confederates. We look at such things from the point of view of history and how it WILL manifest in the USA.
History can teach us a lot. But, it’s not a very pretty sight.
The election of Donald Trump has only postponed the genocide. I describe in depth why this is the case, and show clearly why this genocide SHTF CWII train-wreck is going to happen whether we want it to happen or not.
My you-tube video on this article
I created this video years after this article was first written. It serves as a perfect match for the contents of this article. It discusses the idea that societies collapse before governments do, and that is reason to be concerned (if you are an American.)
Keep in mind that I am an American expat living inside China. I took the “life boat” to a much safer place, and I wish and want those who have decided to “stay put” and “duke it out”, great success in your efforts to survive the present conditions of chaos and insanity. Hang in there! I believe in you!
You can view it on my you-tube channel. Here’s the video…
The following six articles will cover;
How your Human Resource manager will determine the future of your family.
How to defend yourself; the rule of three.
How the media is used to demonize; and then communicate to the Marxists.
How to avoid innocent but dangerous situations.
How the “lone wolf” mentality will get you killed.
What not to do, and what to do, to prepare realistically from a historical perspective.
How to get your family and loved ones to protection.
Avoidance of being a target.
How to take down a technical.
If you want to go to the start of this series of posts, then please click HERE.
If you want to see my MEGA-Index about the collapse of America click here…
If you enjoy what you see, it would be helpful if you could assist in hosting this forum. A donation would be appreciated.
Articles & Links
You’ll not find any big banners or popups here talking about cookies and privacy notices. There are no ads on this site (aside from the hosting ads – a necessary evil). Functionally and fundamentally, I just don’t make money off of this blog. It is NOT monetized. Finally, I don’t track you because I just don’t care to.
This article was written in response to a discussion that I had with a friend of mine. He made the statement, “You wouldn’t be able to believe how these (Chinese) people lived! You and I could never live like that!” Turns out that he saw some propaganda from the UK and was convinced that the Chinese lived in windowless hovels. Not so. Not by a long shot.
Over the last thirty years, China has experienced a period of enormous growth. It began in the 1990’s. It started when the progressive socialist policies of Mr. Mao were replaced with the Free-Market Conservative policies of Mr. Deng. The result was predictable and resulted in an explosion in the overall quality of life for all Chinese people. A period of exceptional growth ensued and a middle class appeared. Here, we talk about the direct result of that change. We discuss the Apartment Houses that Chinese middle class live in.
Typically, most Chinese live in apartment complexes. There is a percentage, of course, that have their own houses. There are those that share, what we in the West refer to as “Townhouses”. There are those that occupy (rent-free) ancient dilapidated old complexes that can still be seen everywhere. (Why not? They might be old and ugly, but living in them is free!!!!) Not to mention, the others that live on farms, villages, and in the hinder-land.
Let’s talk about the Chinese apartment houses.
Chinese Apartments
In China, the apartment complex consists of an area that is surrounded with a fence and is guarded by guards (24-7) with video cameras and gates. Within that complex are the buildings that make up the complex. Now, in China, you might have a building that has three towers. Each tower would have it’s own set of elevators and access keys. The Chinese refer to these towers as “buildings”, so it can get a little confusing.
Here is an example of how a Chinese apartment complex works. Image is from Baidu which is sort of the Chinese equivalent of Google. Shown is the apartment complex whole, plus the various buildings and towers.
Above is a typical apartment complex. It is within an Apartment area and contains numerous large buildings. In the United States, we call these buildings “skyscrapers”. There are three towers in the example above. They share the foundations and the first three floors. They also share the underground garage. There are also other buildings. In China, when you work the employer must be able to provide you food and housing. Though you can opt out if you prefer.
The Gate
Every apartment complex is surrounded by a fence and a main gate. At the gate is a little guard house, a gate and biometrics. To enter any housing complex you need to show that you are a resident. Further, as a resident you will be given an electronic card-key or fob that will enable you to enter the apartment area. As is common in China today, everyone is monitored by CC Cameras, and recorded in the event that some crime is committed and there is a need to identify the perp. The gates are always manned 24-7.
Parking
Typically, most apartments have interior parking and exterior parking. The exterior parking is for short term parking. At my apartment complex, the fee is 10 RMB/hour if you park outside.
When you enter the front gate the license plate reader scans your car and records your entry time. Then when you leave you will need to pay the guard (BaoAn) the amount you owe. You can pay electronically, as most do. Typically people use Alipay or WeChat to pay. They just scan the QR code using their cell phone when the guard comes to the door.
Underground parking is reserved for residents. Typically there is a monthly fee that everyone needs to pay. I have heard different rates, but here in Zhuhai the rate is around 300 RMB/month.
The parking garages are unlike that which you will find in the USA. They are not dingy, grimy, dusty or anything like that. They are not at all dim or poorly it. They tend to be very clean, almost like you could eat off the floor in them. They are also spacious and well lit. Here is a Chinese chick in a micro-video in an underground parking garage. It’s pretty typical.
Anyways, the point here is that the parking garages are treated quite differently than they are in the United States. There is a staff that monitors them, cleans them, and makes sure that they are well lit and well taken cared for. Additionally, the care and concern for a given parking garage is a reflection of the owner of the apartment house in the building. As a result, many apartment underground parking garages are very nice and well maintained in China.
Building Access
Once you enter the apartment complex, you will typically need to walk through a park, or park-like area. The Chinese are very big on natural spaces in their apartment complexes. This area will have paths, exercise equipment, a few outside games like basketball or ping-pong, and an abundance of shrubs and trees. Even if the park area is on the third floor (typical in many cities).
Some parks share space with outside parking, while others are for pedestrians and doggies only. All of the parks have lighting, trashcans, places to sit, sleep, and have fun. Many have fountains (though whether or not they work, is hit or miss), and some have pools. Like the underground garage, you will have to pay to swim in the pool in your building. Typically it is 30 to 50 yuan per person per year. (From $5 to $10 USD.)
Here is a Chinese gal dancing on an apartment complex park. It looks like the third floor. As you can see, there are large areas to dance and exercise in (a very important thing in China as everyone loves to dance) and areas of grass and trees.
The pools tend to be shallow. With the deepest section rarely over 1.5 meters deep (about five feet). They are always tended and cared for, just like swimming pools are in the USA. However, they generally do not have life guards. The residents are expected to take care of themselves and to watch the younger kids and children.
Once you walk through this park-like area you will make your way to your building entry. If you are in an apartment that has, say five towers with one shared foundation, then you would enter the entrance directly associated with your tower. There are some buildings that have one central access point, while others have different access points depending on which tower you live in.
You will need an access key or FOB to get into the building. So, in case you are wondering, yes you need two keys to enter your building in China. One key is to the apartment complex, a second key to enter your apartment tower.
Elevator
Once you enter the building you will pass through a large open area that will hold mailboxes and some sofas and chairs for guests to wait for you. These are typically well lit and with marble or stone floors and walls.
You will pass through this area and go to the elevator area. In towers that are over 25 floors there are typically multiple elevators that run to pre-specified floors. For instance, one elevator might go from 1 – 25th floor, while another might run from 1, then 26th to the 50th floor. Some apartment buildings have elevators that run to only odd floors, while others run to even floors. All, in all, it cuts down on the waiting time in tall buildings.
Like what is common in many hotels in China, you will also need your apartment key or FOB to run the elevator. The elevator will not work (in many cases) unless you have a residence FOB.
Front Door to the Apartment
The front door will more than likely have “good luck” symbols on the door. These will be red designs with gold or black trim. This will consist of the symbol for “fortune”, either right side up or upside down and certain lucky sayings. It is a tradition to get new door decorations at the start of each Chinese New Year (CNY).
The doors will use a key that has nothing in common with American keys. American keys tend to be a flat bar of metal that has slots cut into it. Chinese keys come in different cross sections, including rectangular, triangular, circular, half-moon, and all with certain different kinds of security protections. Back twenty years ago, say around 2000, crime was rampant and people were constantly getting broken into. These different key types each come with their own unique blanks and procedures to open and replace. Indeed, you have to be a key-smith expert to be able to break into any Chinese houses today.
Triangular shaped key blank. Here, you can make different key patterns for FOUR elements of the key. This particular blank is available on Alibaba. Not available in the USA, if not outright banned. (After all, how can the police, FBI, NSA, CIA, DHS, and IRS be able to come in if you are not cooperative?)
Most homes built in the last ten years all have biometrics. You need either a finger print or retinal scan to enter. Alternatively there is typically a key pad that is available if you want to be a little “old school” about home security.
Once inside – the apartment
Most Chinese apartments are much, much smaller than their American counterparts. they range in size from very tiny 40 square yard affairs, to 70 square yard, 120 square yard, 300 square yard, and up to 500 square yard apartments. Most Chinese people that I know own their house. They paid for it in cash. They live in a 70 to 120 square yard house.
The 40 square yard apartment is very tiny. It’s just big enough for a bed, a bathroom, and a refrigerator. Many that are being made now are called “lofts”. They fit an upstairs in this tiny space so that you can sleep above a very cozy living room.
The 70 square yard apartment is still small, but it is big enough for one (or two) bedrooms, a nice bathroom, a kitchen, and a living room. There is always a porch and a washing area. Many young professionals and first time home owners select this size of house to live in.
The 120 square yard apartment is pretty much ideal for the expanding family. It consists of three bedrooms, two bathrooms, a kitchen, a dining room and a living room. Of course there is a porch and laundry area.
Many Chinese families have the parents living with them. This is a long standing Chinese tradition where the parents of the oldest sun moves in with the family. They then take care of the new children of the family. The 200 to 300 square yard layout is perfect for this larger family. There will be three or four bedrooms, two bathrooms, large living room and dining room, and a very spacious kitchen.
There are many kinds of apartments in China, however we can distill most of them into the following format and understanding…
Attributes of a Chinese Apartment
Firstly, notice that there are no rugs or carpeting. The Chinese prefer solid stone flooring. This flooring is typically white or off-white. In just about every apartment that I have been to, liven in or visited, the floor was solid stone slab.
Secondly, note that the walls are not plain. There are adornments. The Chinese hire interior decorators to render the walls “comfortable” and suitable for a household. The walls are either painted white, tiled in sheet stone or marble, or tiled in white tile. It seems like the videos are of a mansion, but nope, it’s a real honest-to-goodness middle class house.
Sometimes the houses have a wooden or FRS decking floor. This is a rather recent innovation. Those apartments that have this wooden floor typically use it for the bedrooms, or other “soft” areas.
One of the first things you notice when you get into a Chinese house is that there is a rack of shoes near the door. It is typical in most Asian countries to take off your outside shoes and wear house slippers inside. You can see this in this next video. Here’s a chick in her apartment being cute…
Another thing about living in these towers is that they are really, really high up. Falling off the balcony is not an option when you are on the 36 floor. With that said, you often are able to get really, really outstanding views.
Now, if you are in the middle of a city, like downtown Shenzhen or Shanghai, you might find (much to your dismay) that your view is blocked and all that you can see is the apartment tower across the street. That really sucks. However, just moving to a different apartment on the same floor might provide you with an amazingly different view. Some, heck most, are just stunning.
Conclusion
I think that by looking at how other people live in distant parts of the globe, we can see our similarities and our differences in a new light. I believe that that knowledge is very important. It shows us our place on this planet and where we exist in the universe.
Rather than buying into the constant drum roll towards endless wars against some kind of cardboard cut out of what our “enemies” are, we can make the judgements ourselves. We no longer need to be blindly led towards more outrageously expensive and heart-rendering wars. War, mind you at only benefits the 0.01% of global elite.
I am tired of it. It’s a non-stop onslaught of war! war! war! propaganda. It’s all about getting YOU (yes, you) to buy into the notion that there must be a war to be fought. Whether it is against some tiny banana republic or a huge nation like China or Russia.
People are people. We eat. We sleep. We work. We have families. There are more things in common with each other, than our disagreements. That is the truth. All you need to do is step outside the USA bubble and look around a bit. Open your eyes.
Here, I would like to relate a little about what it was like growing up as a boy in Pennsylvania. For, I am a native born American who lived through the 1960’s and through the 1970’s. I am pretty typical for my generation. The 1970’s was the decade of Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford. It ended on a whimper with Jimmy Carter at the helm. Here we talk about the 1960’s and 1970’s and what it was like growing up at that time.
School
I attended elementary school. First I attended a private Catholic school in Connecticut, and then when my father was promoted we moved and I attended a public school in Western Pennsylvania.
This picture is pretty typical. It is not of my school, but could have well have been. Our teachers were from the 1950’s and 1960’s, and in hindsight, certainly looked the part. Most everyone in my class where white. Our favorite television shows included the Brady Bunch and the Flintstones.
Allowance
Before I started work, I was permitted an allowance. My sisters both received an allowance with no strings attached. Mine was contingent upon my successful completion of my chores, and usually meant that I would get “paid” after I mowed the grass on Saturday (shoveled the drive in the Winter).
We had a push lawn mower. My job was to push it. We had apple trees in the back yard, and I would gleefully mow right over those suckers, making apples sauce of many of them. The hornets did love those apples, though. You had to mow quickly or suffer the consequences. Yikes! The picture depicts a boy and girl working on the lawn. Nice picture, but my sisters never helped with my chores. I was taught that they were the “weaker” sex, and that I was the one that had to work.
As a kid, my allowance of $1.00 per week was given to me every Saturday afternoon after the grass was successfully mowed. The hardest part was deciding how to spend it and get the very most out of every penny. Of course, a trip to the corner store for candy always figured into the picture!
One of my favorite treats was Dubble Bubble – a hard piece of pink bubble gum that included a tiny printed comic tucked between the gum and the outer wrapper, all for just a penny. I remember my first experience with inflation – the day when the cost of a piece of my beloved gum increased to 2¢.
Oh, the tragedy!
Another treat was Dixie Cups. These were little plastic containers of vanilla ice cream accompanied by a small, flat, wooden spoon. They had a flat circular cardboard lid that I would pull off and lick the inside top off. They were available at the local candy store (an old soda fountain that was re-purposed as a kind of local Quickie-mart) called Swede’s. They were tiny – not more than a few bites, really – but we loved them.
I used to love eating Dixie cup ice cream. Here is an advertisement from the 1970’s.
The store was small. It had two counters. One, the main counter was were the 1950’s soda fountain was. It was all covered in canvas and unused. At least for maybe ten years. There was an old manual cash register there, and he sold cigarettes, and sundries there at the glass-topped counter.
On the other side was a long counter that resembled the kind of glass counters that you see today at butcher shops. There were shelves and shelves of candy there. We would go and point out this candy, and that candy. He would dutifully get then item, and put it in a small brown paper bag. Then he would carry it to the other counter and ring it up for us.
I will admit that the first thing that we did when we walked out the door was open up that little bag and start eating the candy inside. Heck, by the time we managed the walk home (from the store) most of the candy would be gone. Ha!
Toys & Sports
In the summer we would play softball on the side street (the traffic was really sparse in our town), and tackle football in any one of our many back yards. Basketball was also pretty popular, though I couldn’t dribble for the life of me. Sigh! We had a few class mates that had a hoop in their driveway. We would go there and play.
When I wasn’t playing sports, or “goofing off”, I liked to play “Spaceman” or “Army” with my other friends. I had a plastic “tommygun” that I would “shoot” the other kids with. We also had numerous toys that we would play with. Does anyone remember Spirograph, Silly Putty, Etch-A-Sketch, Doodle Art, Lite-Brite, Tinkertoys, or Magic Slate? How about Sorry!, Battleship, Clue, or Payday?
I used to play with Clackers (Klackers), but they were banned because they broke your wrist. I also used to play with Jarts, but they were banned because some kids got hurt with them. I used to play with Slinky, but they never lasted more than a few days as we would eventually twist and turn them into unusable junk.
Today you have fidget spinner gadgets, back in the 1970’s we had Clackers. We would go back and forth making such a racket with these bad boys. Not to mention using them to hit each other on the head with. Ouch!
Klackers came on the market in the late 60s and lasted into the early 70s.
They were constructed of two acrylic balls on a string with a ring or small handle in the middle.
The point was to get the two balls clicking against each other. If you got really good you could do fancy tricks with them, like build up momentum until they were hitting on the top and bottom in an arc . . . and make a hugely annoying racket.
Kids loved them and they became THE craze of
the summer of 1971. But doctors and teachers weren’t so impressed after a
frightening succession of serious Klacker accidents.
Unfortunately they allegedly had a nasty
habit of shattering or exploding in a shrapnel-like shower and were
promptly banned from every school in the western world – but kids all
knew it was really a conspiracy from grown-ups because they hated the
sound they made!
The similarity between this supremely popular toy and a South American hunting weapon called a bolo did not escape most teenage boys. In this capacity they proved extremely effective. After a nation outbreak of badly bruised arms and black eyes they were pretty much withdrawn from sale. – Nostalgia Central
Hair Styles
My mother sported large “bee hive” style hair, as did just about every mother. I was always trying to wear my hair long. You know, “Beatles” style. But, my father would have none of that. As a result my middle school popularity had it’s highs and lows determined by whenever my father hauled me off to get a haircut. When my hair was long, and thus fashionable, I was popular. When my hair was short, and thus unfashionable, I was ignored.
A selection of hair styles from the 1970’s.
I once mentioned this to my uncle who made fun of me and my cousins. Saying that we (snort!) would only care if the girls thought we were cute or not. Well, at our age, it really was important.
In Pittsburgh, where there was a population of negro folk, the hair was in various types of “Afros”. These tended to look like huge balls. Some were quite enormous. I always thought that it was pretty cool to have. They liked to drive these HUGE cars, Lincolns or other high-end vehicles, and would take extra care not to mess up their hair as they went inside the car. LOL.
Bottle Collecting
My favorite thing to do when I was around eight or nine would be to go “bottle collecting”. Here I would go into the local “woods” to dig for “old bottles” (in long disused trash dumps, often 100 years old) that I would then clean and collect.
We had a couple of “dumps” that we frequented. One of the best, with the most impressive bottles, was near the river next to an old railroad spur. It was the home of many a “whittle marked” bottle, old time bitters, and about a hundred thousand Lydia Pinkham bottles. (I guess that the local woman folk must have had a lot of “womanly” problems.)
Our parents let us kids go out and play.
“I used to puzzle over a particular statistic that routinely comes up in articles about time use: even though women work vastly more hours now than they did in the 1970s, mothers—and fathers—of all income levels spend much more time with their children than they used to.
This seemed impossible to me until recently, when I began to think about my own life.
My mother didn’t work all that much when I was younger, but she didn’t spend vast amounts of time with me, either. She didn’t arrange my playdates or drive me to swimming lessons or introduce me to cool music she liked. On weekdays after school she just expected me to show up for dinner; on weekends I barely saw her at all.
I, on the other hand, might easily spend every waking Saturday hour with one if not all three of my children, taking one to a soccer game, the second to a theater program, the third to a friend’s house, or just hanging out with them at home.
When my daughter was about 10, my husband suddenly realized that in her whole life, she had probably not spent more than 10 minutes unsupervised by an adult. Not 10 minutes in 10 years.”-The Overprotected Kid
As a kid, I would collect all kinds of junk. Not just bottles but all sorts of things.
Ah. My bedroom was a collection of old colorful bottles, scale models of tanks on shelves (and planes hanging from strings from the ceiling), as well as a quite a large collection of paperback books and comics. I had stacks and stacks of magazines. Magazines included “Lost Treasure magazine”, “Men’s Adventure”, “The Good Old Days”, “Mechanics Illustrated”, “Popular Science”, “Popular Mechanics”, “Mad Magazine” and “Analog”. In fact, the upstairs bathroom had a closet, and the bottom two shelves were devoted to all sorts of magazines and comic books.
Money and Costs
Things were cheaper then.
In fact, most things could be paid for using coins. If you ate at a
restaurant, you would rarely need to use any bills. Just a handful of
coins (from a coin purse) was all you would need. Indeed, my father
carried a coin purse and a money clip. Wallets didn’t really become
popular until the 1970’s. (When inflation had jacked up food prices to
obscene levels.)
Another picture from my graduation year. This is a group of strangers, but they could have well been from my High School. The photo was taken in October of 1977. Mid October in Pennsylvania was a breath taking environment. All the trees were changing color and the weather was perfect.
Clothing
I wore bell-bottom slacks and (butterfly collar) polyester shirts in very 1970’s colors. I also had a couple of striped v-neck velour shirts. Every September, at the start of the new school year, my folks would troop us kids into the car and we would get new clothes for school. My mother wanted us to have the most fashionable clothes. My father, being very conservative, wanted traditional and practical clothing.
My sister wore “Gypsy” skirts (brown cheesecloth with crocheted lace at the bottom), Maxi skirts, those jeans with two front zippers, elephant bells, and had both hats and purses made out of recycled jeans. She was a big fan of Donny Osmond as well as David Cassidy and the Partridge family.
Here is a more or less typical scene at a High School in the middle 1970’s. The only difference from this picture and my memories is that our school buses were yellow.
Polyester was the material of choice and bright colors were everywhere. Everyone in my class were wearing very tight fitting pants and platform shoes. By the time my senior year in High School rolled around in 1977, I was walking around I in a pair of rock-star high-heeled (side zip-up) stage boots.
Meanwhile, most of the girls wore these white high cut boots and low cut (hip hugger) pants. I did absolutely love the hip hugger jeans and the tight, tight, tight fit. This was, of course before the invention (or better yet) popularity of spandex.
Here is a photo of some High School girls taken in 1975. They are very typical. The photo was by their teacher who recorded school life during that time period.
By the time I graduated, in 1977, most of my teachers were sporting leisure suit and track suit attire. In pale greens, oranges and yellow flavors, of course. This fashion continued while I continued attending university.
I had a professor of the course “Man and the Natural Environment” who always wore the same light lime green leisure suit, day after day. It was a great class. We discussed how man is using up all the resources this planet has, and that unless we get control of our actions, a world-wide global cooling would result. Yikes! I, for one, did not want to spend my future life in the middle 1980’s inside a giant snow-cone. Burrrrr!
While the more “fashionable” and liberal professors were sporting trendy clothes, my Engineering Professors sported more traditional attire, with wide striped ties and polyester slacks.
The movie “Dazed and confused” accurately depicted what life was for the class of 1977 at the end of the Junior year in 1976. The clothing, styles and behaviors were spot on accurate.
Sandals were starting to be popular. Though my father refused to allow us to wear them unless we wore them with socks. I was constantly belittled for this. As all of my socks were white. So at the first opportunity, I got my self a pair of “earth shoes” and didn’t look back.
A lot of men were sporting large sideburns. I tried to grow some, but it looked terrible on my 15 year old face.
Fashion of the 1970’s. Here the girls wore a great variety of clothes from tight fitting jeans to long billowy dresses.
Mad Magazine
Perhaps one of the most notable aspects of my childhood was the Mad Magazines that I would collect. This was a satire magazine that I would absorb. It was filled with all kinds of articles, comics and things that would interest me (as a kid in the 1970’s). It contained things such as lick and glue stickers.
Mad Magazine. This was a satire magazine that I would absorb. It was filled with all kinds of articles, comics and things that would interest me (as a kid in the 1970’s).
Who can forget the “Spy vs. Spy”, and the gap-toothed idiot mascot Alfred E. Neuman, who famously shrugs and asks “What—me worry?”
I was of the generation of pimply atomic-age readers, and yes they were almost all boys, as I recall, and we absolutely loved this magazine. We ate up everything this magazine put out. We lapped up the “Spicy Abridged Book Club,” with its highlighted editions of God’s Little Acre and Heidi alike.
We roared upon learning that Beetle Bailey wore his Ridgeway cap over his eyes to conceal GET OUT OF VIET NAM! scrawled on his forehead. And, being from Western Pennsylvania, we completely howled with laughter over “Some Really Dangerous Jobs for George Plimpton,” e.g., swimming Lake Erie, his body smothered not with grease but penicillin.
Other Reads…
Depending on my age, I read voraciously. I would read everything from comic books to paperbacks, to magazines. My uncle gave me a huge stack of “Treasure Magazine” and his related collections of Argosy, True West, and Men’s Adventure.
I would sit there and read (for hours) about the discovery of buried treasures, found discoveries, and the history behind the lost treasures. Some stories concerned stagecoach robberies, other stories told about how Southern families would bury their family wealth to hide it from the Union troops during the Civil War. Yet, other stories would be concerned about how bankers would stealthfully steal gold from the locked vaults in their charge. Yet, not everything was about money.
Other stories concerned the discovery of guns and firearms found under a sagebrush, or the long discarded chest found in an attic or garage. My favorite stories were about the finds that a young kid such as myself would discover in a garage sale or antique store. This might vary from a lost ruby ring to a rare automobile worth millions.
Hiking in the Woods & Bikes
At that time in my life I spent a lot of time hiking in the woods. I would often ride my bike all over town and up and down the back roads and railroad spur lines. In the Spring the air would be fresh with the smells of lush forest canopy. In the Fall, it would be a time of warm “Indian Summers” with red and yellow leaves that would blow in the light breezes.
We would hike and explore the woods all around us. Often we would use railroad tracks, but any road would do. We would often use the old logging access roads where possible, and an occasional abandoned road that was no longer used.
We rode day and night. And, no, we did not wear head-gear, arm pads, knee pads or sunscreen. We were wild and free. If there was a loose board, we would prop it it up and race on the board so that we and our bikes would fly off into the sky. If there were any parents or adults nearby they would stand there and nod approvingly.
That’s how we were.
This style of bicycle was very popular with my generation. This is the “chopper” variant. Note the large rear tire, and the small front tire. Note the hand brakes, and the nice “monkey bar” handles.
I rode a gold Schwinn “banana seat” bike with “high bars” and a “drag strip” (non-tread) rear tire. Every one of my friends owned a bicycle. My sister had one with a white plastic basket in the front. My bike had these long streamers of plastic that plugged into the handles. I eventually tore those things off. But I would put a card (from a deck of cards) and attach it to the bicycle with a wooden clothes pin. That way my bicycle would make some “cool” sounds when I rode fast. It had a huge red circular red reflector on the back, right under the white “banana seat”. Like the GTO I would later drive when I was in High School, the bicycle was an orange color.
We would all ride bicycles when we grew up. Which is different than kids today. Instead, today their parents drive them from event to event, instead of expecting them to get there on their own. A 1970s childhood. (Image Source)
My bike was a personal selection. When my father took me to a store to pick it out, I chose a really simple and rugged model. There were no front or rear brakes on the handlebars. To brake, you would just use the pedals. There also weren’t any gears. There was one gear only. It came with a rear view mirror, that soon broke off, and that was about it. My friends all had more complicated bicycles, and over the years, they were perpetually repairing their bikes and trying to fix them. For me, I never had that problem.
We would ride these bikes. Ride and ride them all day. If, in the event we did not have a canteen with us, we would stop and get a drink out of a nearby well or lawn hose.
It’s true, I often drank from a lawn hose in the summer when I was thirsty. It tasted like warm plastic.
If I was off away on a farm, or near a dirt road we would stop at a
well and get a drink of spring water. At sometime in the 1960s all wells
in Pennsylvania had to be covered up (so that no one would fall into
them). Instead the placed these large iron hand-pumps (often painted red
of green) that you could pump the water up and drink. The water was
free to whomever needed it. Which is so unlike today where even common tap water is bottled by Walmart for a profit.
All the hills around Pittsburgh, Pa. were mined for their coal, and iron ores. Additionally, the hills were treated as renewable resources and logged. Often, as a boy, I would ride the railroad tracks that would be used to transport coal up and down Western Pennsylvania. I would also hike and ride on the logging roads that existed all over Pennsylvania.
I was typical, and not a “bad boy” at all. When my friends started to
smoke cigarettes, I refused. When I started to work, and was offered
beer by the older boys, I drank and soon discovered that I was a “light
weight” and numerous embarrassing events ensued. My friends chewed tobacco and often had a can of “chew” in the back pocket of their jeans (often creating a round circle of wear). I didn’t do this.
Cub Scouts
I was a cub scout up until I entered my teenage years. Every week we would attend meetings in the homes of one of the scout mothers (called “Den Mothers”), and they would help us work on our “badges”, and get ready for the various events. These events included picnics, hikes, plays and social get togethers.
We would proudly wear our uniform during parades, or on holidays like the Fourth of July, Memorial Day, or Labor Day. We would salute the flag in school and lead the Pledge of Allegiance at school in the mornings. (Big change from today, when you have multi-millionaire NFL stars refusing to stand for the US Flag. I find it completely reprehensible and disgusting. But, then I am from the “old school”.)
One of the first things that I got when I joined the Cub Scouts was a
blue uniform. I well remember my mother teaching me how to put on my
yellow scarf. In addition, I got to have my very own hand axe. It was a
Rite of Passage for me. Here at seven years old, I could carry a hand
axe. I was taught how to use it to cut trees, and how to throw it (just in case I might come across some desperate Indians…).
My
first axe was given to me when I was a cub scout. I used it throughtout
the 1960s and 1970s. I learned how to throw it, and how to use it. It
was a rite of passage of all young boys. A boy’s first axe. (Image Source.)
While I went to elementary school in the 1960’s, it was my
experiences during the 1970’s, which influenced my personality. Indeed,
it is my feelings and experiences that reflect that period in time.
My Sister would Skip Rope
While I was doing all this, my sister would spend hours… and I do mean HOURS. Yes, hours, upon hours, upon HOURS were spent playing what Wikipedia calls Chinese jump rope but which my cohorts and I knew as Chinese skipping.
This was a game played mostly by girls – each of whom had their own set of elastics – though I do remember that every now and then some neighborhood boys might joining in on occasion.
Chinese skipping involved an elaborate set of routines and rules, some of which were made up as they went along (“tag, tag, no erasies!”). I could never figure out all the rules. Also, apparently the presence of “good elastics” (not too thick, not too thin, and just the right amount of tension) were highly coveted treasures.
Walking the Train Tracks
One of the big hobbies at that time was to follow the various spur-lines that snaked in and out of the hills. I grew up in the hills of Western Pennsylvania and there were rail lines all over the area to support the transport of iron, coal, and iron ore. Along each road was typically an access road.
We would often explore the surrounding countryside by riding our bikes or hiking in the woods. The easiest way to access the woods was to follow the train tracks.
The lines would typically follow the valleys and rivers of Western Pennsylvania. They would snake along the curves of the hills and dash in and out of tunnels that were cut in the many hillsides.
We would often place coins on the tracks and let the trains flatten them into a long oval.
Typically, we would hike with a branch that we had chopped using our trusty cub scout hatchet, or cut clean using our blue cub-scout knives. We would walk on the top of the rails and sometimes use the walking stick to support us. We’d kind of get attached to that hiking stick and bring it home with us. However, it was soon discarded and rarely used again.
Scene from the movie “Stand by me”. It accurately depicted our boyhood adventures in the 1960’s and 1970’s. We would often explore the countryside by following the train tracks.
My one friend Dino always carried a boy scout canteen. It was a circular affair. It looked like two pie tins welded shut, with a black plastic cat at the top. It was typically draped over his shoulder and hung off his back. I, on the other hand, had a surplus World War II canteen. I got it at the local Army and Navy store. It was an aluminum canteen and it did leak. But it held a lot of water, and I certainly needed it. Drinking from the acid-laden streams wasn’t really an option.
Rail line in Plum township near Pittsburgh in Western Pennsylvania. The rail lines all around my “stomping ground” looked much like this. The lines often followed the water.
Scale Models
One of my favorite hobbies was the building of plastic models. These were often of ships, airplanes and military hardware. I made a few models of cars, but my favorites were of military tanks and figurines.
I had a desk in my bedroom. It was an old desk inherited from my father with four drawers. I used a fold-up “card table” chair to sit at it with. On it was a 1940’s style desk lamp that my parents must have pulled out of the garbage at some time. I had books on the desk, a “multiband” radio where I could listen to FM radio, and a pencil holder made out of a decorated metal coffee cup tin.
At that desk, I would assemble, build and paint my models. It was an enjoyable pursuit. The desk faced the window in the bedroom, and I would often have the windows open, but the shade drawn down about half way. The shades were in the old 1960’s style and were meant to last. They had this kind of “life preserver” style ring hanging on a string that you could pull down to raise or lower the shade.
I needed the fresh air, as the odor from the glue was toxic and would tend to get me all flustered when I used it. I remember once, that my sister was watching her television show and they were really pushing the Rigley Chewing Gum-gum-gum… Rigley chewing gum-gum-gum commercial. It must have been running every ten minutes. I was about going out of my mind with the combination of the toxic glue odor and the subliminal programming of the chewing gum. Ugh!
The airplanes I would hang from the ceiling with string. I would display my collection of tanks and military equipment on shelves alongside my collection of centuries-old bottles. (I was an avoid junk collector and was always on the lookout for discarded bottles that I would collect from ancient trash dumps in the nearby forests.)
I collected Tamiya 1/35 scale military hardware models. I had quite a collection of German vehicles and tanks. At that time, the Japanese model maker Tamiya made the best quality models. They had an innovative introduction process that added new model to the collection every few months.
This is a model of the German Tiger I tank. I had numerous models of this massive beat in various scales. I even had one so complete that the interior was all detailed.
Alas, when I graduated from university I discovered that my mother had thrown away all of my models. She didn’t want all the clutter in the house. I guess one person’s treasure is another person’s trash.
Slang
If you were fortunate you could get a boyfriend or a girlfriend. Mine always seemed to be at a different school district. Good thing…in hindsight. Here’s a groovy couple chillin’ out.
We used a lot of slang that has since become obsolete. The terms “groovy” was mostly used by kids only a few years older than us. As it was being phased out by the time I started to attend High School.
There was a tendency to say “you know” at the end of every sentence, and that just about drove my father off the wall.
Some examples are below…
Dig it – Means you really liked it. It was super groovy.
Groovy – Means very cool.
Cool – Means very nice.
Nice -Means very good.
Good – means “meh”.
Far Out – Means that you dig it and then some.
Outta Sight – Means that it was so far out that you couldn’t see it any more.
Zonked – Means that you are very tired.
Munchies – Means that you are very hungry.
Sock it to me! – Means give me some more.
Catch you on the flip side. – Means I will see you when I get back.
Bogart.‘Bogart’ meant to hold on to a joint too long without passing it– the origin comes from the actor, Humphrey Bogart, who had an iconic style of performing an entire scene with a cigarette dangling from his lower lip for an extraordinarily long time with ‘cool’ effect.
It was a much simpler time. We were all permitted to spend time out of the house. In fact, it was expected. It was a rare person indeed that spent a lot of time at home with their parents. They not only encouraged us to “go out”, but expected it.
So, as a result, we ran a little loose and crazy. We did things that would give parents today heart-attacks, and would probably get people arrested. Those goofs in the movie “Dazed and Confused”, breaking mail boxes, or throwing bowling balls were all part and parcel of growing up. That’s how we rolled.
We were a very care free generation. We were not policed. We had a substantial amount of freedom compared with kids today. We just had fun, played around and got into trouble. That was what it was like.
I’d guess that it was pretty non-politically correct. However, we were just kids. We got into all sorts of trouble. Yet, it was just harmless fun. Today, things have ratcheted up to such a level that just being a white male can get you thrown in jail. Legions of BLM and SJW’s patrol the social media, and people are afraid to be themselves. I guess that is a progressive “paradise” for you.
Me, however, I just want to be left alone with my family. I want my cat on my lap and my dog by my side. I just want to eat my burger and drink my beer in peace.
Anyways… I am the direct result of my childhood. If you don’t like it, you can write a protest blog entry and post it up on Facebook so you and your metro-sexual friends can commiserate together.
Scene from the movie “Dazed and confused”. This film took place in 1976 and described accurately the life in High School at that time. For I too, was a graduate of the class of 1977.
Our Idols
When I was younger, I followed the adventures of Man from Uncle, and watched Gilligan’s Island. As I got older, I started to find new interests in such role models as John Wayne, Clint Eastwood and Charles Bronson. (Arnold Schwarzenegger did not become a movie personality until the 1980’s.)
Eventually, I started to get really interested in girls.
My bedroom was decorated as any boy of my my age would have. It was festooned with models and collections of brick-a-bract and posters on the wall.
I had a poster of Farah Faucett on my wall. She was smiling with this amazing smile, and her huge hair. We all had a crush on her. That as well as Loni Anderson and Rachael Welch . Look at her!
How can you not smile?
Farah Faucett was every 1970s boy’s dream. Just about everyone had a poster of her on our wall or doors in our bedrooms. Farah Faucett was every boys’ dream. (Image Source.)
I had numerous posters on my wall. One was the mandatory “black light” poster on velvet. (It glowed under UV light.)
One was a picture of Richie Blackmore (Deep Purple) performing a guitar solo. (I had super imposed a F-14 on it for combined imagery. After all, space and high-performance aircraft and rock n’ roll was my dream.) I, at that time, was a big Robin Trower fan. I liked Traffic, Uriah Heep (come on! Someone must remember them) and Three-dog Night. Of course, Alice Cooper was the top star of my generation. The songs “18” and “School’s Out” ring a bell?
Raquel Welch was another popular actress that graced the bedrooms of many a boy during the 1960s and 1970s. (Image Source.)
Let’s not forget other television personalities. I had a real liking for Loni Anderson. She was the blonde haired secretary at the radio station WKRP in Cincinnati.
WKRP
I became a fan of Loni Anderson in her role in the television sitcom “WKRP in Cincinnati”. I think many of my friends did as well. We loved her and watching her on the show was always a highlight. That and the clueless manager who ran the office.
Loni Anderson played the role of the attractive secretary in the American sitcom “WKRP in Cincinnati”.
The Cars
Eventually, I was able to drive. Oh baby, that was a turning point in my life, I’ll tell you what.
This photo was taken in 1977 on High School property by Joseph Szabo. Obviously the guys had a special attachment to their cars.
This was at the age of 16. As such, I like many of my friends, would get a job. With a job came responsibilities and privileges. For instance, while the law said that I was too young to drink, my parents permitted me to do so. Because, once I obtained a job, I was a man.
Along with that benefit, I now obtained a paycheck. For me, along with many of my friends, took the paycheck and spent it on our car(s). (As well as a portion towards college, beer, and social-herbs…heh heh.) Ah, not to forget the gasoline for the car.
Gasoline prices were raising. It was so frustrating. While we were used to 25 cents for a gallon of gas, it soon climbed up to 30 cents, and then keep on raising. We were very upset about that. I well remember my father writing a letter to our Congressman to “do something” about it. (As if it would have made a difference.)
My first car was a GTO. I spent all my money on it. My other friends had other vehicles. We would get tires, mufflers, carbs, and decorate the interior with shag carpeting, and a “kick ass” sound system.
Conclusion
This was just some stories about my life growing up. Unfortunately there are very few related stories on the internet. In contrast we can find all sorts of stories about the “hardships” of growing up in the 1960’s. We can read about the injustices against minorities, and about how the nation was broken and needed to move “left” to straighten it out.
It’s a comfortable narrative for the uneducated. However, it isn’t even remotely true. The true realty is something completely different. This is my story. Like it, or hate it. This is the way it was.
No, we didn’t wear helmets, and arm pads when we rode our bikes. yes, there were bruises and an occasional broken arm. Yes smoking was against the law if you were under 14 years old, but we did it anyways. We didn’t die from it, though many had to either quit or seek medical attention. It was our choice. We defined our life.
We defined our life. We did so on our terms. It was our bodies and our lives. We did not need someone to tell us how to behave or act. Though there were hawk nosed busybodies that tried. We made the decisions on our own lives. Not some elected overseer who told us what we could or could not do. And that, boys and girls , is the true lesson of this narrative.
Americans used to be free. It is in our nature. We deserve liberty and freedom. We are the generation that knows what freedom meant. Maybe, judging from the current state of affairs, the LAST generation that experienced it. And, this was our story.
Thank you.
Posts Regarding Life and Contentment
Here are some other similar posts on this venue. If you enjoyed this
post, you might like these posts as well. These posts tend to discuss
growing up in America. Often, I like to compare my life in America with
the society within communist China. As there are some really stark
differences between the two.
More Posts about Life
I have broken apart some other posts. They can best be classified
about ones actions as they contribute to happiness and life. They are a little different, in subtle ways.
Stories that Inspired Me
Here are reprints in full text of stories that inspired me, but that
are nearly impossible to find in China. I place them here as sort of a
personal library that I can use for inspiration. The reader is welcome
to come and enjoy a read or two as well.
Have you ever wondered why some people think the way that they do? I mean, why is it “common knowledge” that Trump followers are “Deplorable” Nazi “Red-Necks” who are High School dropouts and uneducated bumbletons? Why is it “common knowledge” that Universities and Colleges are the perfect routes for success in today’s’ modern world? Why is it “common knowledge” that we need to pay income taxes or else our bridges would collapse and our telephones would explode?
The News Media told us.
Have you ever really wondered about this? This absolute disconnect between the reality that we experience every day, and the reality that is presented to us on the news. Have you ever thought about it?
I mean it. The United States is currently fighting seven …SEVEN… S-E-V-E-N wars! Not a single one of them is a threat to the United States in any direct way. Why are we there? Why are we fighting and our soldiers are dying there? Why?
Because the media tell us that we MUST be there.
It’s not only news about the United States, culture and society. But it is everything. How do we know what China is like? How do we know about how dogs are treated in China? Why do we think that dogs are considered more delicious than a fine juicy sirloin or T-bone steak in China?
Because the media tells us, that’s how we know.
How do we know that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote in 2016? How do we know that the 2016 election was corrupted by Russian spies, and that Donald Trump is the worst president since Ronald Reagan? How do we know that Donald Trump is uncouth, ignorant, and a lousy person?
Because the media tell us.
Speaking of Presidents… How do we know that George Bush Senior was a fantastic President, a real saintly man. That he was a man of principle and who raised taxes simply because he knew that it was the “right thing to do”. How do we know? How do we know that Barrack Obama was the most “transparent” and civil minded person in all of history? How do we know that he and his wife are the most beautiful couple since Adam and Eve?
The media tells us this…
Ah yes. The media tells us…
Salon is a magazine that is straight from the oligarchy to your electronic media. They produce “news” and (so called) “reports” to manipulate you and to cause you to react. They want to manipilate your feelings and your emotions and eventually your actions. Who is paying them, and WHY do they want to manipulate you? Think about it.
The media tells us.
Speaking of which, have you ever wondered why Barrack Obama was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize? Was it because of his accomplishments? Was it because he was great, kind, and very intelligent? Was it because he issued in a new world of order and understanding? How do we know that he actually deserved the prize?
The media told us.
How are we able to find out that the prize as requested back? And that the committee fired the directors that granted it? How do we know?
The ALTERNATIVE media discovered it.
How did we discover about the dalliances that Bill Clinton had in the Oval Office? How did we know about the semen stain on a blue dress? How did we discover about the pay-offs and cover-ups?
The ALTERNATIVE media rooted it out.
The alternative media is the only media that matters in today’s world. Everything else is bought up, controlled and manipulated for financial gain by the oligarchs that control our world. Through their money, and through use of science they have created a situation where the media acts like a Shepard, and moves mass groups of people here and there to meet their personal criteria.
The media does not report on news. They provide entertainment disguised as news. They have stopped reporting news back in the 1960’s. Since then, they have been bought up and reorganized for financial profit and to manipulate large groups of people to do the bidding of the super wealthy oligarchies that own them.
So while we might laugh at Alex Jones wearing a tin-foil cap, and Rush Limbaugh smoking a cigar with his formerly nicotine stained fingers, it is truly the alternative media that has any value in reporting the true and current state of American news today.
We might get frustrated with the Drudge Report reprinting obvious fake news from CNN, ABC, and MSNBC. However, at least he is trying to provide balance. Balance, mind you, to a playing field that has for a very long time, been completely distanced from real news reporting.
That is right. Distanced from ANY type of real news reporting.
Ask yourself why…
Why is it that we know about the latest bombing in Israel, and the torture and death of a journalist in the Saudi Arabian embassy, but not the failure to fix the potholes in Pennsylvania roads? Why isn’t Lois Learner being investigated? Why is Hillary Clinton still free? Why is the news still talking about Michelle Obama? How do we know which news is important?
How do we know that a mob of SJW and BLM activists are trying to disrupt traffic, force behaviors, and violently attack people with bicycle locks? How do we know that these are spontaneous events, and are grass-root reactions to what is going on in Washington, D.C.?
The American mainstream media concocts fake news. They take small events and blow them all out of proportion. They promote news that only affects the top 1% of the population, while ignoring the news that affects the rest of the 99% population.
The media told us. That’s how.
Why is it that we discover that eating steak makes men impotent, and that a cup of Starbucks brand coffee a day will make you virile and sexy? How do we know that Starbucks will not hire veterans, but will endeavor to hire five thousand refugees?
Why has it become ok to accuse a man, any man of sexual misconduct, assault and rape? Why has it been considered ok to ban Christmas cheer in the workplace, and schools? Why is it just fine and dandy not to salute the flag and instead “take a knee” for the oppressed?
Why should be be fearful of giant rat-sized zombie hornets killing people in China? Why should we be concerned about the poor children that are knocking at the Southern border of the United States? Why should we be fearful of eating sunny-side-up eggs, and drinking with plastic straws?
Why should we be afraid to give our children peanut-butter and jelly sandwiches? Why should we worry about the next hurricane, the next Winter, or the next scorching Summer? Why should we worry?
Global warming is just an excuse to put people in fear and collect their money. Just like Global Warming was. You are being manipulated.
The media tells us to.
How do we know what news is true and what news is fake? How can we check to see if an article is actually factually correct, or is just propaganda? How do we know that we need to go to a media-aligned fact-check website…
The news media fact-checks themselves. How so very convenient. All done in the comfort of your living room.
The media instructs us, and checks for us.
They tell us if news is real or fake.
They tell us where we should go to get the “actual” truth. They tell us which government official is evil, and which is corrupt. They tell us which one is pure as the freshly fallen Winter snow.
The media tells us.
They have told us that Hillary Clinton was the most popular candidate in 2016 and that she would win by a landslide. They told us so. They told us that Donald Trump was a joke, and only uneducated hillbilly “gun toting” hicks supported him.
The mainstream media told us that Hillary Clinton rallies were full of enthusiasm. They told us that Donald Trump had no following. They lied to us.
They told us this.
The news media is not what we think it is. It is no longer “news”. The reporters no longer report on events. They define narratives. They tell us what to think and they massage our emotions. They have honed these techniques for many decades, and it has reached a point that where today, watching any form of media is opening yourself up to manipulative propaganda.
CNN is referred to as “Fake News” because they lie. They do so often. They stage fake and contrived “news events”, while ignoring actual news.
The Media Tells us…
Do not listen to alternative news. The Drudge Report must be banned, and Mr. Drudge must be imprisoned and broken so that he will never threaten the oligarchy narrative ever again. Dittos for Rush Limbaugh. Rush needs to be thrown in Jail, the radio show banned, or at least “balanced” (pro-progressive reporting) must take place.
Do not listen to Alex Jones. He’s a hate monger, and spews racist and bigoted nonsense. Don’t listen to him! Cover your ears! Protect your children! Wear a hard hat!
The Media tells us…
“This is a perfectly normal and sane way of doing things. It is perfectly normal and sane to strip the earth bare and poison the air and the water in an economic system which requires infinite growth on a finite planet.
People who say otherwise are raving lunatics!”
Meanwhile the social engineers wonder why there’s increasing disaffection and alienation among the populace.
CNN televised discussion. This is not news. It is a bunch of well paid actors reading scripted lines to manipulate the public. Again; the “news” is an entertainment network designed to manipulate people. Those “experts” are all well-paid actors and actresses.
The Media tells us…
“Just spend your time in this world turning the gears of the machine and you will be happy. The machine is your friend. The machine takes care of you. Work hard pulling its levers and greasing its cogs until you are old and you will gain satisfaction,”
Today we live in a world were you were forever running on the the treadmill of life. No matter what opportunities would be presented to you. The movie “Office Space” has became your perpetual reality.
Yah. Yah. And then they wonder why we’re all gobbling up antidepressants like candy.
The Media tells us…
“We need to drop explosives on Nation X because they need Freedom and Democracy™. We know we said that about Nation Y and Nation Z and that went terribly wrong, but that’s because it wasn’t managed properly. Trust that it is good and proper for the citizens of Nation X to be killed with bombs and bullets,”
Americans are in a constant state of war. Since our nation was founded in 1776, there were only five years where we were not fighting a war. When the Constitution was written, a war was considered the last resort of desperate men. No so today. It is considered the “duty” of America to police the world at the expense of the American taxpayer for purposes of Global harmony.
Yikes! And then they wonder why people keep snapping and committing mass shootings.
The Media tells us…
“Look at that gibbering maniac trying to get a third party up and running in the most powerful nation in the world!
Only someone who is deeply awful and defective would believe that the two party system isn’t serving us,”
Yet, they supposedly wonder why everyone feels disempowered and unheard.
The Media tells us…
“Of course this is the way things are; it’s the only way things could ever be.
Anyone who would try to change any part of this is either mentally ill or a Russian propagandist,”
CNN has been pushing the fake narrative about Russian collusion in an effort to undo the election of 2016 results. This narrative is so tiring that few people pay attention to it any more.
Thus they tell us that they wonder why people shut down and numb themselves with opiates. It’s all out of our control. It’s Russia! Russia! Russia! and the only thing that we can do is shut up and pay more taxes! Pay much more in taxes! That’s the only solution!
The Media tells us…
“Everything is great. Everyone is doing fine. Everyone is happy. Look how happy everyone is on this sitcom.
If you aren’t happy like that, it’s not because of the machine, it’s because of you.
People need to be protected from your insanity. You mustn’t be allowed on any screens. You need to be silenced on social media.
Trust us. Don’t trust yourself.
Don’t trust that growing, gnawing sense that everything is fake and everything you’ve been taught is a lie.
We have never lied to you. We have never been caught red-handed deceiving you and then acted like nothing happened.
We have never gaslit you.
You are misremembering things because you are confused.
Shut up. You are dangerous.
Shut up. You are foolish.
Shut up. You are insane.
The machine is sanity. The machine is freedom. Everyone is equal here. Everyone matters. Everyone gets a voice.
Except you.”
Meanwhile the social engineers wonder why people are trusting them less and less. They don’t want to hear what we have to say. They only care that we obey their dictates.
The media manipulates people. They set one group of people against the others. They unify against others, and align themselves with others so that their narrative is perfected and ideal for the issue that they are trying to promote.
The Media tells us…
“War is normal.
Poverty is normal.
Mass surveillance is normal.
Censorship of dissenting ideas is normal.
Mass media propaganda is normal.
Escalating wealth and income inequality is normal.
Escalating police militarization is normal.
Escalating tensions between nuclear superpowers is normal.
Looming ecological disaster is normal.”
And people wonder why everything feels so odd, and surreal. We wonder why everything seems so precarious and that we are living in a dangerous place. We wonder why we are so afraid of everything and that any day the entire house of cards is going to come crashing down.
The Media tells us…
“Insane things are sane. Sane things are insane.
Up is down.
Black is white.
War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.
If you disagree, you are crazy.
If you disagree, you are poison. Shut up.
You will contaminate the herd. Shut up.
You are garbage. Shut up.
You are a disease. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up.”
Shut Up!
Unless…
Unless you have experienced something first hand, the information is more than likely false. It is a packaged narrative, sometimes based on truth, but often based on lies. It is a narrative designed to herd you, like cattle being herded by dogs. Humans are herded into behaviors by the news media. And they are tricky.
Sometimes the use techniques to massage your emotions.
Sometimes the use techniques to appeal to your intellect.
Sometimes they appeal to your sense of justice.
Sometimes they call on your instincts.
All of that is dangerous. For the most dangerous and threatening manipulations are those that we want to believe.
Conclusion
All news is a fabrication of one degree or the other. While we can read and watch the news, we absolutely need to be vigilant against manipulation. For today, ALL media without exception is designed to manipulate.
Further, the techniques to do so have been honed and perfected over the last 6 decades.
Further, the rapid increase in communication technology has made it increasingly easy to manipulate humans into mob and herd-animal behaviors.
We listen, watch and read the news at our own peril. We must do so carefully.
Thus, if you feel any of the following “urges”, please check your emotions and pause and think…
The need to go to war with a nation in a far away land.
The need to increase taxes for “the environment”.
The need to ignore a crime because the criminal is “special”.
The need to restrict or limit any freedom for reason “X”.
"I’ve been telling people that for years, and most of them just shrug and yawn, but the sad fact is that almost everyone who reads the papers and watches the news programs simply assumes that what they’re reading and hearing is true and beyond question.
My view may be considered seriously jaundiced but I tend to doubt the truthfulness of damn near everything the news media reports."
Here are some other similar posts on this venue. If you enjoyed this
post, you might like these posts as well. These posts tend to discuss
growing up in America. Often, I like to compare my life in America with
the society within communist China. As there are some really stark
differences between the two.
More Posts about Life
I have broken apart some other posts. They can best be classified
about ones actions as they contribute to happiness and life. They are a little different, in subtle ways.
Stories that Inspired Me
Here are reprints in full text of stories that inspired me, but that
are nearly impossible to find in China. I place them here as sort of a
personal library that I can use for inspiration. The reader is welcome
to come and enjoy a read or two as well.
Five months before the Kavanaugh nomination hearings, the following (concerning the #MeToo movement) was posted anonymously on LinkedIn. It was posted on June 10th, and within 72 hours it was taken down. Now, not even the Wayback Machine has a record of it. Welcome to modern Internet censorship.
The article reads as truth.
Fundamentally, the #MeToo movement might just be undoing all of the damage that Affirmative Action and HR Harassment Firings have done to men’s ability to work over the last forty years.
Perhaps the pendulum of political correctness is starting to swing in the other direction.
Perhaps, one day, we’ll be returning to a more traditional ordering of things. A world,, indeed, a world where men can bring home the bacon, and support their families to the best of their ability. Meanwhile, the children are raised properly. Taught and nurtured by the mother. As well as taken cared for in a loving and supportive fully functional parental unit.
Maybe…
Congratulations #Metoo…You’ve Made Women Employees Radioactive BY DAVIS M.J. AURINI · June 25, 2018
As a corporate CEO I now have a fiducial duty to avoid hiring women
I was having lunch the other day with my group of fellow CEOs…some current and some former. I asked the question: “Well, who has gotten that visit from the corporate lawyer, advising you to avoid hiring women executives”.
Every one in the group groaned and looked away. The message was clear. They had ALL gotten that visit.
As a corporate CEO, I have an fiduciary and moral obligation to my employees. (It is) NOT to do something stupid that will destroy the company and throw them out into a very hard and dangerous world. The streets of Silicon Valley are full of RVs and campers with homeless former engineers and former managers, many with no health insurance. I am obligated by law and by custom not to add my people to that list.
That’s why I can’t hire women.
Even before #Metoo, hiring women came with a significant risk. I’ve seen several small companies wiped out by some angry ex-employee claiming some sort of sexual harassment. In each and every case, the company leaders honestly tried to prevent the problem, but were wiped out anyway. “$150K just to walk in the front door” says any law firm.
That’s enough to destroy most startups.
As a CEO I have a legal obligation to avoid risk. Because of #MeToo, women walk in the door with the metaphorical equivalent of a suicide bomb strapped to their back. The slightest wrong move, the slightest insult, and BANG. Everybody is dead.
In the past it was just a few women who had this tendency to use lawsuits to destroy. Now in the era of #MeToo, it has become fashionable. Even the not-so-bright receptionist I hire as a temp is on the lookout for her moment of perceived fame.
The Kavanaugh nomination hearings were in September 2018. This was five months after LinkenIN erased this article from their postings. The truth hurts.
As a CEO there is absolutely nothing I can do to prevent a clash, when women are so eager to take offense. Human sexuality is wired into every man and women. Even if I install webcams and watch every single second of every interaction, having training classes, and instill fear in my male employees, there will inevitably be some action that some man will take, maybe on purpose, maybe accidentally, that will cause some woman to take offense and sue.
I am unable to prevent it, just as I can’t prevent someone from passing gas after lunch.
Litigation is the business equivalent of nuclear war. It only destroys. Now every woman walking into my HR department is carrying a nuclear launch button on her sleeve, and is being goaded by their friends to USE IT!
Kavanaugh Accuser Admits She Lied: It Was A “Ploy” & “Tactic” To Get Attention Clearly, the allegations against Brett Kavanaugh were fabricated as there was no evidence and no corroborators to any of the allegations.
Every other employee in that company — male and female — has a mortgage and family expenses, and is looking with fear at that new female hire.
This is what generals call an “asymmetric threat”. I have zero control, almost no preventative measures, and huge, deadly risk.
That leaves me and other smart CEOs with only one solution: stop hiring women.
And that is what’s happening, quickly or slowly, at every small startup all over the country. Will we be sued for not hiring women? Nope. Hard to prove. Penalties actually quite unlikely.
To my granddaughters who are just entering the workforce, and to the many wonderful women who long ago learned to ignore male clumsiness and just get the job done — I can only say how sorry and sad I am to see this.
Unfortunately, you women have been betrayed by a group of radical women who are, to put it bluntly, fools. They are dragging you into a conflict which will leave you burned and the men in your lives burned. Everyone will get burned except the lawyers and the activists who will, as always, sit back and profit from the war they created.
Maybe there will be comments from women telling me “I don’t get it” or “You’ll get sued.” Um, no. I get it just fine. I’m just speaking a harsh truth, that people don’t like. Listen.
Conclusions and Commentary
It is the duty of the officers of a company to protect the company and it’s employees.
That is why there are rules for work-place safety, work-place harassment, and standards of behavior that all employees must abide by. This includes dress codes, behavior at work, and in some companies off-work as well.
Given the outrageous accusations of those in the #MeToo movement, and the enormous legal risks, the situation is clearly a dangerous one.
“This is what generals call an “asymmetric threat”. I have zero control, almost no preventative measures, and huge, deadly risk.”
If there is even the slightest risk of a #MeToo accusation, I would suggest the CEO, Executive Director and owners be cautious. I would suggest proactive steps and action be taken.
After all, according to the mainstream media (whether it is fake news or not) the perception is that there is wide spread sexual harassment in the workplace. This is an advantage that the accuser has, and it places the company at a severe disadvantage.
As such, I would [1] strongly advise against hiring females in the workplace. Certainly for management positions, and even for lower level positions. Females should also [2] be vetted carefully, and their Social Media be checked to assure that their threat level is sufficiently minimized.
Further, [3] I would advise that a legal document be drafted to protect the company and the employees in the event that a female is actually hired. This legal document should be applicable to both males and females.
Indeed, it is an ugly world that we live in. This is one of the harsh consequences of that reality.
It's real. A relative of mine in an exec position was advised to avoid hiring women in the exec ranks and to avoid having any one on one contact with women at all costs. This will greatly hamper the ability for women to advance in companies.
Granted, I'm not shedding much tears... since during my 20+ years in corp world I've witnessed countless women gain promotions (and some over me) by sleeping around. It's more common than many would suspect. These were usually married women as well.
Here are some other similar posts on this venue. If you enjoyed this
post, you might like these posts as well. These posts tend to discuss
growing up in America. Often, I like to compare my life in America with
the society within communist China. As there are some really stark
differences between the two.
More Posts about Life
I have broken apart some other posts. They can best be classified
about ones actions as they contribute to happiness and life. They are a little different, in subtle ways.
Stories that Inspired Me
Here are reprints in full text of stories that inspired me, but that
are nearly impossible to find in China. I place them here as sort of a
personal library that I can use for inspiration. The reader is welcome
to come and enjoy a read or two as well.
Here I would like to discuss a long standing dream that I have had since I was a small boy; the possession of a large roll-top desk complete with a multitude of tiny drawers, cubby-holes, and spaces for all my personal junk and treasures. I have had this dream for a long… long… long time. With that in mind, let’s discuss this work of art; this magnificent idea and concept of the roll-top desk.
During the last century, the idea of a Roll-Top desk was appealing and very popular all over America. Many American homes had these styles of desks and throughout the 1960’s and 1970’s they faded into obscurity. There was a brief revival of Roll-Top desks in the 1980’s and then they have been forgotten as overly expensive and extravagant items of furniture. This is unfortunate, because every man should have a Roll-Top desk.
Here’s a fine roll-top desk. It’s the stuff that dreams are made of. It’s a beautiful work of art.
The first time that I encountered a roll-top desk was a very long time ago. One of my friends had inherited it from his father. It was in his bedroom and he would work on his various projects at the desk. He had this kind of glue with a rubber top that you could use to spread glue on paper and make scrap books with .
"I believe that glue is called muslage; I don't see it for sale anymore. Really dates me, eh? if I know what *muslage* is. LOL"
During my childhood, we all used this kind of glue. My friend had it in his desk. We made posters with this. It was fun.
He also had a punching bag in his basement and we would try boxing. Ai! At such an early age! Heck! We were only in second grade, for goodness sakes. It was kinda goofy at the time, but our fathers both thought that boxing was something that all boys had to learn.
What is a Roll-Top Desk?
A roll-top desk is a large desk with drawers and a top compartment that possessed a rolling cover that could cover and lock the contents of the desk in place. This desk was made out of wood, with the vast majority of the wood being hardwood. Under the protected roll-top working area, there were all sorts of smaller drawers, and compartments for the user to store things in.
Antique roll-top desk from the 1930’s. Instead of a modern reproduction, this desk sports small handled mini-drawers, pigeon holes, top, pencil drawers, and ledger spaces. Note the four drawers on both sides of the pedestal base, and the central desk drawer.
History of a Roll-Top Desk
The roll-top desk appeared just as the industrial revolution was getting started. At that time, small armies of clerks and office workers were needed to support the various duties of the factory. This included everything from managing inventor to handling the large number of workers at the factory.
The desk was designed in such a way that the top could be pulled down and protect the work from being disturbed. At that time, the office workers would be engaged in work that involved large numbers of papers and documentation. It was impractical to put every thing away at the end of the day and pull them out at the start of a new day. So the roll-top desk was invented.
Here is another antique roll-top desk. Again, please pay attention to the mini drawers and pigeon hole compartments. The rolling cover and it’s path is clearly shown. What is not shown is the most excellent swivel chair that would go with the desk.
Further, there was a need for specialized compartments to hold various office stamps, pens and papers, and folders. This created the various styles that had miniature drawers, shelving, compartments and side pockets.
A roll-top desk is the perfect place to store such things as drafting supplies. here is a nice set of drafting supplies that hadn’t made it’s way (yet) to the trash heap. With a roll-top desk, it could be stored safely and elegantly.
This item of furniture was the mainstay of the small or medium-sized office at the end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th.
Antique Roll Top Desk made sometime between 1900 and 1950. I personally think that there is an over abundance of drawers in the desk. They are mostly all of the same size. However, different people have different needs. Aside from that, this desk has a leather mat writing surface, and some very small mini-drawers for keys and minor items. Note that this desk has sides that are on hinges. They can be swiveled out of the way for an unobstructed work area.
In the working industry, it eventually was phased out and replaced by more durable and cheaper (mass produced) steel desks. Additionally, the idea for filing cabinets, and “flat files” came into being that would (firstly) augment the compartmentalized sections and ledgers of the roll-top desk, and secondly the determination that the roll-top desk did not fit in the modernized image of the state of the art 1930’s Art Deco decor.
These desks could often be found in various small offices, and homes throughout the 1970’s. Over time they were often left to fall apart and rot. Today they are generally rare, with some small-build reproductions floating around here and there. You can find them occasionally at antique dealers and in selected flea-markets. Aside from that, they have pretty much disappeared from the social scene.
This antique roll-top desk has some nice compartments and nice style. It fits the grand criteria for a roll-top desk. I especially like the “mail box” slatted chubby-holes in the center.
Features
These desks had numerous features that made these desks very special. I personally believe that these features are often overlooked in our modern society – one that has an over reliance on cloud computing and storage.
While there are world-wide variations of this desk. Most roll-top desks are strictly American in design and function. Here we can see some of the important elements labeled and identified for the reader.
These features are;
Large, deep, and wide pedestal drawers, with compartment slats.
Pull-out “bread board” panels on both the left and right sides.
Wide and deep working area.
A selection of small “square” pigeon-hole areas.
Some desks would have small cabinets or closets (some with windows).
A man needs a drawer to place his little treasures in. He can store the things that matter to him, and the papers and documents that he must maintain.
A number of horizontal pigeon-holes for papers.
A number of vertical pigeon-holes for journals and log-books.
Small mini drawers, each with a metal knob and a slot for a label.
A slat for holding rulers, drafting triangles, or cardboard folders.
Here’s a nice vintage desk drawer. Notice that it has a movable tray compartment, and is made out of good solid hardwood. No fake plywood or particle-board construction here. Also note the beautiful grain of the wood and the overall appearance. Wonderful!
Medium size mini-drawers, often with a plain knob for pens, and miscellaneous tools. Sometimes lined with green felt backing.
The roll-top top, often made out of slats that can be locked in place for privacy and security.
A grand “middle drawer” that would have a wooden carved “tray” for pencils, erasers and paperclips and the like.
Here are some details that can be found on various roll-top desks. I particularly like the leather mat writing surface, though many people simply would purchase a felt mat and place it on the surface. Note also the side pull-out “bread-board” feature. Often people would place lists of important phone numbers, addresses or codes on these boards, and pull them out when they needed to refer to something.
Accouterments
These desks would often be paired with this low swivel chair. Often with a cushion and wooden arm-rests. It would also be paired with a nice desk mat. Some desks had a leather writing surface, while many did not. In that case, a person would go to the hardware store and purchase their own writing mat.
Here are some interesting details that can be found on certain roll-top desks. This includes compartments inside the writing surface and pencil trays in one or more of the main desk drawers.
The writing mat was often leather with a felt surface. The most popular was green. A “banker’s” lamp, with a green shade, and a brass base was also often employed. Though, Tiffany lamps, and lamps with cast designer bases were often employed.
Here is a fine vintage oak wood office chair. It is on a swivel base and has wheels to move around in. Note that it has a small leather cushion, though many chairs did not have this feature. It’s a fine chair just about made for ta roll-top desk.
Material
Early roll-top desks were built of heavy woods such as black walnut, and small local companies might choose from a variety of local hardwoods. There are many hardwoods that were used.
This roll-top desk has a working and writing surface that can be pulled out and makes for a larger working area. Notice the top of the desk as well. It can support lamps and even a shallow cabinet or bookcase.
Most popular toward the end of the 19th century, close-grained oak was often quarter-sawn, or cut to promote a particularly even grain, reducing the possibility of warping and increasing durability.
At one time, these desks were made with care and concern for the overall appearance of the desk. Wood was selected carefully and cut with care and precision. the end result was a work of art.
Mahogany, teak and cherry also appear in old desks, but from 1900 on, most desks were oak. A desk made from cherry after 1900, for example, would have been a special order or the work of a local craftsman.
Here is an antique “Banker’s lamp” with a Tiffany Art Deco inspired shade (instead of the traditional green glass shade). It’s certainly beautiful.
Why a Man Should Have a Roll-Top Desk
I well remember the exact moment when I fell in love with roll-top desks. My father needed to get or renew his insurance for the car. This was in the late 1960’s. At that time we had a Buick Electra. And, we were trading it in for a 1966 Lincoln Continental.
Man! I sure wish that I had this car today. I’ll tell you what. This is a 1966 Lincoln Continental. It was black with a black interior. (So hot in the Summer.) But we loved that car.
So he went over to the local insurance agent in the town. We lived in a small town at the time, and he was a friend of a friend. So dad went into his office. It was a cluttered office next to a tire dealership.
We walked in. There was centuries of dust and clutter there. Inside was this amazingly enormous man. He was built like an elephant and existed there in a state of decay and confusion. He seemed to blend in with all the clutter, piles of paper, stacks of dusty junk, dusty Venetian blinds, and the ancient Art Deco fan that was providing the much needed air flow in that tiny cramped and cluttered office.
He sat there smoking a cigar, with a largish (green plastic) AM radio playing a baseball game in the background. Next to him was a cigarette stand. You know the type, it was a metal pedestal with a handle and a large glass tray in the center. The ash tray was filed with the ashes of many a well smoked cigar.
He sat at this enormous roll-top desk, and offered me a “Orange Crush”. When I said “sure”, he flipped me a quarter and told me that there was a pop machine around the corner…
There is a certain beauty in a roll-top desk. It is a place where a man can put his stuff. As a boy, I enjoyed the idea of a place where I could put my stuff and collectables at. At that time, I had a a small wooden cigar box that I held my “treasures”. But an entire desk…now that would be awesome.
In his office was a roll-top desk. This was not just any roll-top desk. It was enormous. I am not at all exaggerating. I haven’t seen anything like it since. This desk was easily the size of our dining table. Not only that, but that tiny office had two of them. They dominated the room, and on them was the clutter of years.
I just sat there amazed. I just looked at the amazing array of cubby-holes and mini-drawers. I loved that desk. I just sat there and soaked it all in. I listened to the baseball game and sipped on my soda.
The meeting lasted maybe two hours. My father signed some papers and then we left. On the way out, I asked my father if we could have a desk like that. He just chucked.
A roll-top desk is the ideal place to store your much needed desk supplies and paperwork. Instead of all the clutter, it can be positioned within easy reach for the user of the roll-top desk.
“Why do you want such a broken down piece of junk?” he asked. I just shrugged.
We walked to the car and then went and got an ice cream. But, while I never mentioned it again to my father, secretly inside, I always wanted to have my own roll-top desk.
Much later…
I was in Ridgecrest, California. I was in training at the China Lake Naval Weapons Center for my MAJestic role. At that time, I was living on Dolphin Avenue, in a small housing development. My neighbor, who also worked on the base as a contractor, just happened to have a roll-top desk that his girlfriend bought him.
I loved that thing. Sure, it was a reproduction. And, it was not a full-size desk. But, it still was pretty darn cool.
I think that the reason why I have always liked the idea of a roll-top desk was the idea that it had spaces and compartments for all my stuff. I would, over the years collect junk, papers, writings and bits of flotsam that had meaning to me, but would eventually get lost in the detritus of the house. Probably eventually collecting in dusty boxes in remote corners of the garage. Sigh.
But, if I had a roll-top desk… well, now it’s a whole new ball-game. I could store my prized fishing lures in one place, and my precious treasures in other spaces. Of course… being much older, my desk might look a little bit like this rather than my boy-hood dream ever was…
As a man get’s older his tastes change. I lost many of my boyhood treasures over time. Now my needs and passions are much simpler. So, yes, I probably don’t NEED this kind of desk. yet, wouldn’t it be grand to have it to keep some prized whiskey or smokes?
Conclusion
A personally think that having a big roll-top desk would be awesome. It would be a place for my brick-a-brack and clutter. I can well imagine a selection of pens and pencils in the various drawers, and indexed compartments full of my various treasures. I could some of my few remaining baseball cards, and my small collection of bottle openers. Not to mention a fine jewelers loupe and electricians scissors. With them I could place my small nine inch metal rule, and a few calipers.
What ever. All men need a place to keep their personal junk and a roll-top desk fits the bill quite nicely.
Free Republic Posting
This article was published on Free Republic on 16DEC18. The posting and the comments can be found HERE.
"I have one of these steelcase desks that I got from a VA hospital that was dumping them. I love this thing but my wife hates it. In a nuclear detonation or earthquake you could hide under it."
Here are some other similar posts on this venue. If you enjoyed this
post, you might like these posts as well. These posts tend to discuss
growing up in America. Often, I like to compare my life in America with
the society within communist China. As there are some really stark
differences between the two.
More Posts about Life
I have broken apart some other posts. They can best be classified
about ones actions as they contribute to happiness and life. They are a little different, in subtle ways.
Stories that Inspired Me
Here are reprints in full text of stories that inspired me, but that
are nearly impossible to find in China. I place them here as sort of a
personal library that I can use for inspiration. The reader is welcome
to come and enjoy a read or two as well.
Back in the day, I was one of the first people to start using Google as a search engine. I liked it’s clean interface, and simplicity.
Of course, over the years, other people also found this to be the preferential search engine. Unfortunately, Google became big, powerful and yes, evil. They siphon up your personal information with zero regard to fourth amendment protections. They sell the information to the highest bidder, and give it away for free if the person is part of a government agency.
Unfortunately, people like myself VALUE privacy. And that means that I no longer can use Google.
Here is a selection of various search engine alternatives to Google. It is not a complete list. As there are thousands of alternatives. These are some the best ones that I have found.
You might discover, as I have, that they have BETTER and more comprehensive results than Google. You just need to understand that they work differently than Google. So you must query your searches differently…
You see, Google only provides results to you that they feel should be presented to you.
A “googlr”; an employee at Google. They feel that THEY know what is best for you. They will set up the software programs to sort through the reams of information on the internet, so that you only get to view the information that THEY want you to see. See this chick here. She thinks that she is better than you are, in determining what you need to know.
This is problematic. Because they only show you the possible results that you qualify for. The qualification rules are kept secret, and are a closely held secret at that. They, like many of their politically liberal breathren, consider themselves as your parents and have the role of censoring your search results for (what they consider to be) your own good.
With all this being said, let’s look at the top candidate…
Let’s start with the fist step is divorcing yourself from Google. Use Duckduckgo. If you go duck, you will never go back.
It is clean and operates much like Google does. The only difference is that it is private. Yes, you can think of it as the Google that should have been. While Google is “evil Spock” (a fine Star Trek reference), Duckduckgo would be the “good Spock”.
Evil Spock and Good Spock. Image is from the The Enemy Within (Star Trek: The Original Series). For those of you who have never watched Star Trek or who don’t understand the reference; “good Spock” is clean shaven. “evil Spock” has the beard.
Duckduckgo is a search engine that does not track or personalize your searches and results.
For those of you who are unaware, the “personalization” of search results is the permitted censorship of search results. Don’t go down that dark and scary road.
A dark and scary road.
It is my humble opinion that if you like Google, then you will love Duckduckgo. They offer the same kind of service, only faster, better, quicker and with far more privacy.
If you want to make the world a better place, then stop using Google and start using search engines that respect your privacy.
Here is a comparison between Duckduckgo and Google. Obviously DDG takes privacy very seriously. While Google only gives it “lip service”. Well… how do you think Google makes all it’s money? You don’t see any ads on the front page do you? Nope. They are paid by government agencies to give them YOUR search information.
Duckduckgo is a great search engine that values privacy over everything else. They operate much like Google only they respect your fourth amendment rights.
It should be obvious that Google is working closely with the United States government in the collection of your personal data, as well as the manipulation and censorship of data to control your thoughts. After all, look at all the trips Google had with Barrack Obama. They certainly weren’t swapping golf stories.
Like DuckDuckGo, Search Encrypt is a privacy-based search engine. It includes a general search function, as well as image and video search. This is a search engine that was design with privacy in mind. They believe that your likes, thoughts and search history should be just as private as the color of your underwear.
I agree.
They have a very clean interface, much like Google, except that everything is private and kept secret. They can do most of what you need, and all of what I (personally) use the search engine for.
Search Encrypt should be a preferred search engine for anyone wishing to maintain their privacy in a world where everyone lies and makes false promises. I use it in China without a problem.
I can see this search engine growing and becoming more popular over the years. Time will only tell, if they will maintain their role as the guaranteerer of privacy, or if they will sell out to the highest bidder…
Those tech “giants” in California tend to make empty promises and will sell you out in a heartbeat. Let’s not forget the promises that Yahoo! made when it acquired Tumblr, and then what happened when Verizon took over and crapped on the policies that reflected creative expression in 17DEC18. Never forget the broken promises, the lies, and the sell-out for huge monetary gain.
CEO Tumblr David Karp Akhirnya Mengundurkan Diri. When money becomes an issue, all the free thought, artistic creativity, and hope and dreams come crashing down. Who cares about creativity when you could end up with a new Lamborghini, a nice home on the beach, and all the perks of the wealthy.
That’s About It!
Sorry, but that’s about it for privacy based Internet Searches that I (personally) would feel comfortable using. The problem is that most other search engines are either (somehow) tied to Google (and the American NSA spying apparatus), or tied to one or another government. Now, there is good and bad with this revelation.
By splitting up searches between different government agencies and promoted search engines you can effectively DILUTE the content of search history that any one government has on you.
By using different search engines the SEO attributes are different; thus resulting in different search results.
With that being said, let’s look at some more or less QUESTIONABLE search alternatives out there. Some are promoted as “big on privacy”, others are simply large but tied to a non-American government.
Keep in mind, these search engines must be used with caution and consideration…
We will start with a well promoted search alternative. You can find this quite easily on Bing and Google as the “private” alternative to internet searches. Now, back in the day, Startpage was the world’s most private search engine. It was, because no one else gave a rat’s ass about privacy.
Start Page / ixquick
You see, StartPage was the first search engine to allow users to search privately. None of your details are recorded and no cookies are used, unless you allow it to remember your preferences. It also provides a proxy for those who want to not just search, but browse the internet with full privacy.
Instead of being a full alternative to Google, it combines Google Search results with user privacy. So, when you use StartPage, you’ll get the same Google Search Engine results. The only difference is that your privacy/information isn’t submitted. Google only sees StartPage, not the StartPage user. This enhancement is one of the reasons why StartPage results are so useful.
In short, StartPage Search Engine is the most appropriate private search engine for those who love Google results but can’t make a compromise with privacy.
The user should beware. Many companies that suck up your personal information and browsing habits ALSO promote Startpage. You have to wonder why.
I mean, why does Facebook and Google offer links to “their versions” of Startpage? It makes me pause and think.
Do you believe that a Facebook version of Startpage would maintain your privacy? What about a Google version of Startpage? I don’t. In fact, even if they were sincere in wanting to secure your privacy, I can’t help but think of them polluting the entire effort.
Evil Laughter
MetaGer
How about going to a different country? How about Germany? Now, I have to make a full disclosure that I personally love Germany. I think the German people are awesome. I love the food. I also like the “restaurant chain style” bordellos. Not to mention it is a beautiful land with an awesome history.
They also, and most importantly, respect privacy.
Metager
MetaGer is German-based meta-search engine, developed on 24 small scale web crawlers. It focuses on user’s privacy and makes searches untraceable by leaving no footprint behind. Also, it integrates a proxy server so that users can open any link anonymously from the search results while keeping their IP address hidden from the destination server. This eliminates the chances of advertisers to target you for ads.
The results are obtained from 50 different search engines. Before presenting final results of the query, they are filtered, compiled and sorted.
Comparing Metager to Google.
If you have optimized your website for search by Google, and Bing and the other more prominent American websites, you might be disappointed. This search engine utilizes a completely different criteria to search with, and the results reflect it.
However, the really great news is that you will find many websites that Google, and Bing cannot find.
And now the bad news. It might be publicly private, but who actually knows what the German government might have on the browsing habits of those whom use this search engine…Hum?
Yes. Russia, of all places. We need to put on our commie waders and step out of the American deep-state swamp and enter another deep-state swamp. Only this time it is a cold one covered in icy slush; the Mother Russian land of internet.
Yandex is the largest search engine in Russia with nearly 65% Russian market share. According the Comscore, it is the fourth largest search engine in the world with over 150 million searches per day as of 2012.
Yandex Search Market Share.
Yandex features a parallel search that shows results from main web index as well as specialized information resources, including blogs, news, image and video webpages, and eCommerce sites. In addition, the search engine provides supplementary information (like sports results), and contains spell checkers, autocomplete functionality and antivirus that detects malicious content on webpages.
Unlike the other search engines, this one is NOT optimized for privacy. So, that tells me that you can pretty much expect the Russian government knows who you are and are tracking your internet history for their own purposes. What ever they might be.
Hum… is there a cute large-chested blond-haired Russian femme fatal in my future? I wonder?
Now, the beauty in using this search engine is that the organizations that want your personal information don’t really want your data. After all, it’s going to be pretty hard to target you for Russian Viagra in Saint Petersburgh when you are living in Sunnyside, California. And, it will be unlikely for you to read the Cyrillic characters in their advertisements in the first place.
Russian advertisement for ice cream. Heck, it might even be enjoyable to see some targeted Russian advertisements for a change.
Personally, I think that there is far more harm in the NSA having your personal information than any Russian secret police force, even if it’s a modern version of the KGB.
The reasoning is simple. If the United States government; federal, state, local or agency want’s to arrest you, they will need to make a case out of how evil you are. Then they will compile the reasoning into the most damning case, and convince you to agree to lesser charges via plea bargain. Often they will use your computer habits to justify their narrative.
However, in Russia, and China, they won’t do this. If they want to arrest you, they will simply do so. Period. No justification and song and dance of survival is necessary.
OK. Now, back to America. We all know that Google has rivals…Microsoft.
Bing is Microsoft’s attempt at unseating Google, and arguably the second-most-popular search engine today. Bing used to be MSN search until it was updated in summer of 2009. They should NEVER be considered a Search Engine that honors individual privacy. However, they are placed here in this list for those members of the European Union, who get to have privacy in the their searches that Americans are denied.
Privacy with the Microsoft BING Search Engine.
Touted as a decision engine, Bing tries to support your researching by offering suggestions in the leftmost column, while also giving you various search options across the top of the screen. Things like ‘wiki’ suggestions, ‘visual search’, and ‘related searches’ might be very useful to you. Bing is not dethroning Google in the near future, no, but it is definitely worth trying.
Like Google, however, they will most certainly block certain websites, and avoid others at the request of the United States government. From “Uncle Sam’s” point of view, you go after the “low handing fruit” that the vast bulk of Americans use. Then ridicule the outliers as “misfits”, “deplorables”, and “Nazi’s”.
The international website “Kick Ass Torrents” was seized by the Department of Homeland Security. The reason being that they offered royalty free downloads of copyrighted movies and music. Thanks to President Obama, visiting any of these websites is a federal crime that Americans are forbidden to visit. Even for a nano-second.
As far as privacy is concerned, Bing will alter the behavior of the Search Engine if you live in the EU.
All you need to do is [1] Go here and fill out the application form, [2] wait for a response. Then, [3] trusting that they will obey your request, you are free to use Bing.
"Please provide any other relevant information describing your privacy interest in having this information blocked in response to searches on the name specified above and why you believe your privacy interest outweighs the public’s interest in free expression and the free availability of information."
That’s right, boy’s and girl’s, you need to petition Bing and explain why you want to have privacy. That should tell you all you need to know about how these software companies think of you and your families.
If you are European, you must petition to these people and explain why you want privacy. As an American, you will not be granted privacy. It is not granted by Bing. You are forbidden to have it, simply because NO ONE is enforcing the fourth amendment.
Youdao is a search engine in China released by the company NetEase. It allows users to easily search for images, web pages, music, news, blogs, and even Chinese to English entries in the dictionary, and several others. In 2012, Hui-hui shopping assistant was established, serving as a tool that will allow users to compare items and prices online.
I would not say that they would honor a person’s right to privacy. However, like the Russian search engine, the companies that seem to want to collect user information would find most Americans boring and useless.
Some deep searches are worth the risk to privacy. When that comes in play, consider Yippy!
Yippy
Yippy is a Deep Web search engine that searches other search engines for you. Unlike the regular Web, which is indexed by robot spider programs, Deep Web pages are usually harder to locate by conventional search.
That’s where Yippy becomes very useful. If you are searching for
obscure hobby interest blogs, obscure government information,
tough-to-find obscure news, academic research and otherwise-obscure
content, then Yippy is your tool.
There isn’t any guarantee that your privacy would be maintained, however, this search engine will take you places that other Search Engines (think Google and Bing) would hide from you.
Yahoo! is several things: it is a search engine, a news aggregator, a
shopping center, an emailbox, a travel directory, a horoscope and games
center, and more.
This ‘web portal’ breadth of choice makes this a very helpful site for Internet beginners. Searching the Web should also be about discovery and exploration, and Yahoo! delivers that in wholesale quantities.
Yahoo! also won’t protect your privacy like some of the other search engines mentioned herein. However, they won’t pre-censor to “protect” you either.
On Google, for instance, I had to wade through pages and pages of stuff about how the John Titor Time-traveler was a hoax, with no pages on the actual text of his BBS narrative. Yet, Yahoo! took me right there in a nano-second. Straight the “meat”, with no roadblocks of propagandized articles.
The Internet Archive is a favorite destination for longtime Web
lovers. The Archive has been taking snapshots of the entire World Wide
Web for years now, allowing you and me to travel back in time to see
what a web page looked like in 1999, or what the news was like around
Hurricane Katrina in 2005.
You won’t visit the Archive daily, like you would Google or Yahoo or
Bing, but when you do have need to travel back in time, use this search
site.
With DeepWebTech you can choose between five search engines. If one doesn’t work for you, you can always count on the other to help you find what you need. Just like Chrome, DeepWebTech also counts with browser plugins for you to use if you are searching for something in particular.
With this deep web search engine, you can find information on a subject such as medicine, science, and business. If Google is not giving you what you are looking for, you can count on these deep web search engines getting the job done.
While the privacy is suspect with all these search engines, I do not think that occasional use of such Deep Web trawlers are anything to be overly concerned about. Use a VPN and TOR, if you are concerned.
Other Search Engines….
Here are some other search engines that are worthy of a spin. Like before, they won’t really guard your privacy. However, they might scatter all your searches in a series of disjointed data centers.
Ask.com
Launched in 1996, Ask.com is
a question answering-focused web search engine. Despite its age, Ask is
still very active. They have coupled their search-system with a robust
questions and answer system with billions of online content.
As of 2014, the website had 180 million global users per month (with a
larger user base in the US), and to date, its mobile app has been
downloaded over 40 million times. They acquired a social networking
site, Ask.fm, where people can ask questions with the option of
anonymity. ASKfm handles around 20,000 questions every minute.
Baidu is the most popular search engine in China. This is definitely the most useful engine if you want to improve your SEO’s, but it functions very differently from Google.
The main differences compared to Google come down to how the sites operate. While on the surface they may look similar, different focuses and older systems mean that while Baidu’s technology is better at processing Chinese, they still place a high emphasis on Meta tags, meaning users are open to scams.
One
key difference that should be noted is that Baidu is a completely
Chinese website, and there are very few non-Chinese sites that come up.
While this is difficult for those who are trying to break into the
market, it is one of the reasons why it has such a large user base.
QiHoo 360
This is another very important search
engine in the Chinese market. In 2016 they had around 29% (according
to SEOagencychina.com) of the market share, however, in 2017 they seem
to have around 10% of the market. This is a significant drop and can be
accounted for by Baidu’s massive increase.
QiHoo
360’s flagship search engine is actually called Haosou, so it is
important that while the company is called QiHoo 360, the search engine
has a different name.
Haosou
offers a wide range of services including news, websites, images,
Q&A, videos, images and music, as well other services. As you can
tell it runs a very similar service to Baidu.
Other Search Engines
There are other search engines that you can use. However, you do need to be careful. Many (not all, but many, many) work with Google. (Snarl!) They offer (so called) “anonymous searching” but rely on Google as the back-end. I, for one, do not trust them. When I search, I don’t want to have anything to do with Google. No matter what anyone else says.
Gibru claims to provide Uncensored, Anonymous Search Engine experience — both in the web version and with the official Mozilla Firefox toolbar. This search engine is noted for the 128-bit secure encryption, the promise of data safety and optimal privacy.
Lukol is an easy-to-use private search engine. It does neither track your information nor store your IP. It has no tie-up with Governments or security agencies to share your data. In short, you don’t have to worry about your search indexes getting exposed.
Qrobe.it is another alternative private search engine to rely upon. The interface is way too simple, and you’ll be able to search for Images and Web content. You also get some Settings option and Advanced Search
Some Alternative Search Engines…
Ah, it is just impossible to do anything privately today. Everyone wants a piece of your action. Sigh.
Naver
Naver isn’t actually an “alternate” search engine at all. In fact, Naver is number one in South Koreawhere Google has a very small share. It used to be powered by Yahoo’s Overture system, but following the Yahoo-Microsoft alliance, the engine decided to build and launch its own keyword advertising system, so Naver has now become a leading search engine with its own advertising system. If you’re targeting Korea, put this one first.
Seznam
In the Czech Republic, Seznam has been in the lead for a long time and still just about competes with Google there. However, Google is rapidly creeping up and knocking at its door. For now, continue considering Seznam as essential in the Czech Republic. Over the border in the the Czech Republic’s sibling state Slovakia (they were once one nation and known as Czechosolvakia), Google has already taken over as a strong lead in first place.
Eniro
Eniro is an interesting example of a search engine in Sweden and for a variety of reasons. Eniro is the orignial publisher of Sweden’s Yellow Pages and, as a result, Eniro still has significant brand traction in the country. However, more recently, Eniro has partnered with Google for some aspects of search and for advertising.
What’s interesting though is that Eniro has developed its own pay per click advertising system and then backfills with Google ads which is a model I think we can expect to see emerge more widely. You don’t have to take much more share of advertising revenues, to justify building such a system and amortizing its costs over a few years.
Onet.pl
Well, I will say this about the Poles. They are honest about collecting your data and selling it to others for their own purposes…
Before you click "Go to site" or close this window, please read this information.
We ask for your voluntary consent to the processing of your personal data by our business partners and provide information about the so-called cookies and about the processing of your personal data by us. By clicking "Go to site" or closing the window by clicking the X icon, you agree to the following. You can also refuse consent or limit its scope.
A Polish portal with a strong following, Onet.pl has a slightly different version of the Eniro approach. Here, its search coming almost entirely from Google. It relies on on its advertising for revenue generation.
If you want to agree to the processing of your personal data by Trusted Partners of RAS Polska Group, which you share in the history of browsing websites and web applications and location data generated by your device for marketing purposes (including automated analysis of your activity on websites and applications to determine Your potential interests for adapting the advertisement and offer), including placing web tags (cookies, etc.) on your devices and reading such tags, click "Go to website" or close this window.
Orange
The telecoms companies over the years have, in general, gained a larger slice of “eyeballs” and have often overtaken the former search engines for audience. In France, for instance, Orange has a very strong portal which carries a search function. That search function is powered by Voila.fr — probably the number one ,original French search engine. It’s not Google…Hurrah!
However, the pay per click advertising on Orange.fr comes straight from Google, so this is an example of the opposite business model to those above.
Spiegel.de
Another trend of the moment is of newly prominent search sites that are news portals, generally the online mirrors of offline mega-brands. Der Spiegel (The Mirror) has been the leading and best respected German news magazine since its launch in 1947. Its move to online guaranteed a strong audience and an opportunity for both search and news advertisers.
It has a fascinating approach to search. Here, all searches query the Spiegel itself. Other issues are broken down by related organizations. For instance, plus manager-magazin.de for management issues, merian.de for travel and Wikipedia, clearly giving it a focus on responding to informational queries.
Spiegel doesn’t yet have a keyword-specific search facility not yet having discovered the opportunity, but it does enable you to build your own banner ads directly online and is just one step away from a very influential keyword search facility. Watch this space!
It’s very interesting, and might one-day be the future of searching the internet. However, an alternative to Google, it is not.
Alibaba.com
It is a search engine and it’s not. It is a Yellow Pages and it’s not. Strongest in China and India, Alibaba is difficult to describe apart from saying that in size, it dwarfs some of the better known search engines.
Some describe Alibaba.com as a dating site matchmaking manufacturers and their various types of distributors, which is actually pretty fair. And it has its own keyword matching advertising facility as well.
Personally, I use Alibaba quite a bit. If you want something. You buy in Bulk. Why spend $400 for ten Viagra pills, when I can buy the raw material for 100,000 pills for half that amount?
Conclusions
One cannot utilize the Internet without a Search Engine. Today, many programs and most of our communication is through the Internet. Our portal and the ways of accessing this Internet is through Search Engines. A person who controls your access; controls your life.
Don’t allow them this ability.
In America we proudly call ourselves “free”, and that we have “Freedom”. We announce that we have the Bill of Rights that “protects” us. None of this is true. This is simply because, like a garden, the Bill of Rights must be nurtured…respected and tended to from time to time. And when rabbits come and much on the plants in the garden, they need to be shooed away or killed if need be.
Update 27JUL20
Mojeek.com:
One of the last independent search engines. Mojeek is based out of the UK, and indexes websites on its own (just past 3 billion last month). It advertises no bias in its search results and it lives up to this claim. I searched for “vaccine danger” and was impressed with the variety and accuracy of the sites listed—mostly anti-vaccine sites, as expected, as opposed to Google which heavily filters it to only pro-vaccine apologia sites. There isn’t even an option for filtering the content for typical “family safe search.” Other than that it is a bare-bones search engine with a tab for web, news and images. The have a robust privacy policy, but very little independent reviews of this site, and I can’t tell how they get revenue.
Gigablast.com:
An independent search engine using open-sourced code, Gigablast gathers its own results from independent web-crawling (it has indexed over a billion websites). In this it fights an uphill battle against the big players who refuse to give its bots equal treatment to information. So far I have found its search results fair and unbiased, but there is a little more “clutter” in the results than I am used to from the big search engines, but this reflects its honesty: it is a small, organic search engine. The only source of income is a link for donations (unfortunately through Paypal). Their blog reveals many of the underhanded ways that Google manipulates the information marketplace. They don’t have the privacy features touted by other search sites, except to say that they don’t sell any personal information.
Private.sh:
Fortunately another privacy-oriented group built a smooth interface based on the Gigablast independent search results and adds the highest possible privacy. Not only does it strip away any IP information, but it encrypts any search terms you enter within your own browser before it traverses the internet to their website, where it is decrypted, sent to Gigablast, and the results encrypted before sending back to your computer. This effort effectively shields both your query and the results you see from any spying or eavesdropping attempts along the way. Additionally, no personal information is stored and cannot be subpoenaed. All of this is done seamlessly.
Take Aways
Selection of Search Engines are important for free and unlimited access to information.
There are many search engines to select from.
This post includes English search engines that have various degrees of privacy.
The first step in taking control over your fourth amendment protections is to STOP using Google and use a private and secure search engine.
Posts Regarding Life and Contentment
Here are some other similar posts on this venue. If you enjoyed this
post, you might like these posts as well. These posts tend to discuss
growing up in America. Often, I like to compare my life in America with
the society within communist China. As there are some really stark
differences between the two.
More Posts about Life
I have broken apart some other posts. They can best be classified
about ones actions as they contribute to happiness and life. They are a little different, in subtle ways.
Stories that Inspired Me
Here are reprints in full text of stories that inspired me, but that
are nearly impossible to find in China. I place them here as sort of a
personal library that I can use for inspiration. The reader is welcome
to come and enjoy a read or two as well.
All over the world people are getting married. They marry in the United States, they marry in Russia, they marry in Kenya, and they marry in China. A marriage is a wonderful and joyous event. It is a time of happiness and the beginning of a new life. it is a very special time, and a very special event.
Here are some cute and fun traditions that the contemporaneous Chinese have incorporated into their weddings. I think that they are adorable. As such, here are some great wedding ideas from Chinese weddings. They are often very different from what you would find int he West.
For instance, the bride has more than one wedding gown. Typically, she wears four or more during the day. That goes double for all the brides’ maids. Al the gals will need to change in and out of the various outfits all day.
Also, The groom is never alone, as he is always with his buddies. Trust me, he’s gonna need all their help. Indeed, there are all sorts of traditions that are often colored upon with modern technology and pop music.
"A few years ago, I spent nearly a month in the small city of Panjin, in the far north of China, near Shenyang. At first, I was staying in a local hotel near the city center. Starting on a Thursday night, and going through the weekend, I kept hearing loud fireworks going off, in the MIDDLE OF THE FREAKING NIGHT!
When I looked out of the window, I would see pickup truck, or cars driving with a trail of loud firecrackers behind them. This was around 4 am, just an hour or so before dawn.
I asked our local agents what was going on and he described that this was part of their local wedding ceremony. AFTER the wedding, the bride goes back to her parents house. The groom has to go pick her up during the night, and bring her back to his house before dawn.... but, they cannot consecrate the marriage (ie, for those of you in Rio Linda, HAVE SEX) until dawn. As the groom is driving her, he sets off firecrackers to let everyone know how excited he is, and how GREAT the sex is going to be. So, of course... he wants them to be loud and long.
Apparently, the city center is the place where you want to do this, so the MOST PEOPLE POSSIBLE can know. I said, “hmm... fine.. Please move my hotel away from here”.
It was quite a tradition. They also have a very thriving business or renting Mercedes cars to drive the bride around during the wedding day. Also, big parties in several of the hotels where I was staying."
There are many interesting aspects to a Chinese wedding. From the regional variances to the registration process with the government. It’s all extremely interesting. However, this post is not about the technical in’s and out’s of a Chinese wedding. Instead, we focus on some of the more cute and playful aspects of the wedding. Enjoy.
Please note that this post comes with many embedded micro-videos. These are small videos that are from 10 seconds long to maybe 59 seconds. They are very important to help understand the points being made. If you have trouble loading them, please refresh your browser. You will not be disappointed.
To get the most out of this post, you MUST watch the videos.
Wedding photography is very popular in China. This is a wedding photograph titled “The painted hall”.
The Knight comes to the rescue…
Before a Chinese wedding celebration, the groom will often go to the bride's house to collect her. However, the bride will be surrounded by a few of her girlfriends, who will tease the groom before handing over the bride.
The girls will have to be bribed or convinced by the groom with pretends or envelopes with money before they will hand over their friend, the bride. Then, the bride and groom will bow to the bride's parents before taking her to the groom's house. -Chinese Highlights
China has all sorts of traditions, and fun and games that the wedding consists of. Here, we begin with the idea that the groom must come over and fight for the bride.
He has to overcome all sorts of barriers that the bridesmaids put in front of him.
That’s part of the fun. You know, you make the groom fight for the bride. And, of course, he will have to fight. Sometimes playfully, and sometimes tested to the limits of his endurance. These battles and challenges are typically thought up by the brides’ maids, but in-laws and relatives often have a (nefarious) hand in this.
There are all all sorts of cute ways to do this. Here is a micro-video of the groom arriving to take the bride with him to the wedding ceremony. Here he arrives on a white horse (as in a knight in shining armor) and successfully battles the brides maids…
Oh, but it’s not going to be that easy…
Oh, you thought that it was just a matter of playing some games, eh? You thought that it was going to be easy. Well, sometimes it just isn’t. You see, you need to prove yourself to your future in-laws, and they often put mountains in your path for you to climb.
In China, drinking is considered a valuable skill. It is used to judge the merits of a person. This is true in friendships, business, and of course, marriage. Can you just imagine trying to go through this gauntlet? Good thing you’ll have your buddies to help you out. Yikes!!!!
"One point I can identify with is how drinking liquor is considered a skill, a valuable skill to many Chinese.
Think of it as “handling your liquor”, and how well you can “handle your liquor”. Most Chinese I know, by practice, talent or otherwise, can drink considerably more hard liquor than anyone else I know, and not manifest many attributes of being out right drunk. They certainly, all of them, can “drink me under the table”.
One of my good friends likes to play poker and drink - hard liquor. I think she knows that after any number of drinks, her game is as good as it was at the start, while those of us playing with her may not be playing as good as we might have with fewer drinks under our belt. I’m glad she agrees to play for small change. "
Once the groom manages to successfully free his bride from the clutches of the bridesmaids, now he needs to get her to the wedding. How is he going to do that? Because the job of the bridesmaids is to stop him. They are there to make him fight and battle for his wife. It’s not going to be easy.
So, how is he going to do this?
The wedding accessories are often very important. Here is a nice crown-hair-piece. It is made out of solid gold with long tassels, and held in place with hairpins.
Often it is miles away or in a different town. Remember, in a Chinese wedding, not only do you need to get the bride from her parent’s house, but you have to take her to the government offices for the official documentation, and off to the chapel or dining hall for the proper ceremony.
It’s often a difficult journey, and there might be all sorts of road-blocks and troubles that could prevent you two from getting married.
The bridesmaids might have some tricks up their sleeve(s) as well.They will put up all sorts of roadblocks and things that the groom must overcome to take his bride away. Like siphoning out all the gas in the car… Yikes!
What is a groom to do?
Now that the Bride is near the Wedding Chapel (or it’s equivalent) how to get the Bride safe?
Once the bride is successfully removed from her parent’s house, and the Groom transports her to the town to be wed, just how is she going to be safe? After all, a pretty and attractive girl will have all kinds of suitors, and in China, if one can “steal her away” successfully, she is obligated to marry him instead. (China is a land of many unwritten traditions that will be enforced by the elders.) Yeah, the stakes can be that high.
She needs escorts and support. After all, you don’t want her walking alone, right?
The Chinese wedding dress is often beautiful It is a nice happy red color with all sorts of gold trim and symbology. I find it terribly alluring.
Luckily, the groom will have his buddies to help. They will be there to escort the bride safely to the destination. They will be there to make sure that everything goes well and that there are no interruptions or problems.
And, yes, suitors can still interrupt and disrupt the marriage ceremony and “steal the bride away”. You need to protect the new bride. But how…?
Or, why walk when you can ride?
Here we have a cute video of the brides-men carting the troop of brides-maids off to the next stage in the smorgasbord of events…
How did it all begin? What is the first step?
Like in America, a man must propose to his bride. That is often a very simple event, but in China, it MUST be something very special. For starters, he should have a pretty good idea that she would agree to the proposal, or else he is just wasting his time. Secondly, he needs to make it special, and memorable. No Chinese girl worth her mettle would accept anything less than the best a man could provide. So the man must make a very special proposal.
This means that the proposal should be a surprise and as public as possible. His best men (best friends) must observe it happening, and her best friends must also be surprised. If possible both the best friends of the man, and the best friends of the girls must attend, but there’s a trick to it. The guys will know what is going on, but NONE of the girls must know. It must be kept a big secret from them.
In China, a wedding is a big event. It must be planned and executed properly. Everything from the proposal, to the horoscope must be perfect. This is in alignment with tradition, history and popular culture.
It all starts with the proposal.
The man must propose to the girl. He must provide an engagement ring, and he must make the proposal as special as possible. I am not being trivial.
In the USA, the proposal is often considered a private affair. It is done in private, maybe over a quiet dinner or a romantic walk in the park. Not so in China. In China it must be as public as possible. There are rituals, formats, and setups that must be observed to make it a proper engagement.
In fact, it must be extremely special, public and noteworthy. The best men, will help set up the conditions for the wedding, and help him achieve it. The girls, the bride and all her bridesmaids must be kept in the dark about it. So it truly becomes a real surprise.
The proposal should be [1] public, [2] a surprise to the bride, and [3] witnessed by all her best girl friends (who themselves will all be surprised).
A little explanation is due here. In China, it is really not acceptable to show emotion or affection in public. The purpose of this surprise is to get the potential bride to break down. Often, if it is a real surprise the girl will tend to cry or get confused. The man, must take control of the situation and permit the girl to let the flow of emotion over take her.
Sometimes it is in an open and public square or place. At other times it might be in a rented dining room. The most important criteria is the top three points already mentioned above. Further, many Chinese like to have lit candles forming a heart and other meaningful symbology present.
And of course, here is another one…
The Wedding – The father gives the bride away…
Like in the United States, the father must give the bride away to the groom. Unlike the USA, however, the father must show that he blesses the wedding; that he approves of the groom, and that he publicly wishes the new couple great happiness.
Notice in the video below, how the father publicly motions that he accepts this marriage. We waves to everyone and leads the groom to the bride and puts their hands together. He makes a public display of acceptance.
About the Dresses…
In China, the wedding is much, much more complex than what you would find in the United States. In fact, the bride might change in and out of multiple wedding dresses. There is, of course, the white wedding dress, but there are also different dresses that the bride wears. Yes. The day of the wedding will require the bride to change in and out of dresses all day.
Almost every Chinese wedding has a wedding dress that is red. And many Chinese want some nice theme to decorate the clothes with. The main theme (apparently) with the dress design is the Phoenix. In china, the phoenix is a prosperous symbol for women. The Phoenix Sun when depicted on the dress will mean that auspicious events will come forth. Many people in China believe that red color they can bring the happiness, as well as also being a symbol for the beginning of the marriage and the new life that it represents.
For most Chinese brides, picking the perfect wedding gown actually means picking three dresses. The typical traditional dress is called a qipao, which has been worn in China since the 17th century. Most women will wear one red qipao, a white Western-style gown, and a third ball gown throughout the night. The dresses are changed throughout the reception after courses are served. Some brides will even opt for a fourth dress, which they wear as they are saying their goodbyes as guests depart the wedding.
Almost every wedding has the traditional Red Wedding Dress that the bride must wear…
As well as other dresses. Such as this black dress that is used to accept the “red envelopes” and blessings from friends, family, extended family and just about everyone else.
Here is a nice catalog of come contemporaneous red dresses for the bride to wear. I personally find all of them quite fetching and attractive. My goodness!
I personally love the different types of wedding gowns. These are selected for various reasons as they have different purposes. Unknown to most Americans, China is criss-crossed with a network of minority Chinese. Each one has their own traditions and cultures, and the Chinese government does it’s best to make sure that these are not eradicated by the onslaught of technology and new ways of doing things (as part of cultural advances).
Here we have another pretty bride. Note the large amount of gold that she is wearing. This is not the same kind of gold that you would get in the United States; 14-carat or other “improved” alloys. This is pure 100% real gold with no alloys. You see, in the United States, the jewelry business has been running a long-running scam on the American people. Americans pay for gold rings and adornments out of gold alloys. Not real gold. Most American gold alloys are over 80% alloy with only a very tiny amount of gold.
Not so in China.
Second Marriages
In this case, below, the woman is older and this is her second marriage, with all the baggage and emotion that is involved. China, like traditional America, prefers a marriage without any kind of divorce. Here we have the bride going through a second full-scale marriage.
This is often a very emotional affair, and the bride publicly admits to a new marriage, and a new beginning. In the United States, second and third weddings are often quiet affairs with only the paperwork processed. Not in China. If you get married a second time, the entire town must know about it. You can’t keep it quiet. Everyone must know.
She has to face the community, her relatives and her family. All the memories of the trials of her former life; her former husband, and all the troubles and strains – the hardships and the emotions come flooding to her. If she has children, they are in attendance. Her classmates fly in from all over the nation. Relatives, even the rudest and most distant comes and attends.
Here the bride looks like a queen. She is ready to start all over again. She recognizes the trials and the mistakes of the earlier marriage and is willing and strong enough to move forward with her new husband in the direction of a new life. Doesn’t she look stunning!
The Wedding Song…
Often there is a performer that will sing to the bride (and groom). In China, many people love to sing. It’s a very popular sport, far more popular than it is in the United States. Sometimes the groom will sing to the bride. Sometimes the bride will sing to the groom. And sometimes trusted close friends will sing to the bride.
Another popular color for one of the wedding dresses is gold. Here is a nice gold wedding dress.
Often, the singer is very close personally to the bride and the meaning of the song and the emotions involving the wedding becomes evident. As the singer and the bride often are great friends. As friends they would share their hopes and dreams as they grow up. They would share dorm rooms, and clothes. They would know each others darkest fears and their grandest hopes and dreams. When a close person sings to you, they sing with meaning and emotion. For they honestly and sincerely wish the best for you.
American Traditions…
Many American traditions are incorporated as well. The children bringing the rings to the bride and groom for instance, the idea of a best man, and the ideas of the bridesmaids are all incorporated. Here, we have the bouquet being thrown, and captured to promptly gives it to the object of his affections…
Leaving for the honeymoon…
After an absolutely exhausting day, the bride and groom can leave the wedding party and begin their new life together. We can wish them all the best. For their life is only just starting. Here we give them all the best wishes possible.
Special Mention for all the friends…
Let’s not forget the bride’s maids. In China, classmates are much closer than they are in America. They tend to treat each other like brothers and sisters. Seriously. While everyone gets married and goes their separate ways in life, often moving to remote cities, the friendship persists.
If there is one thing that I have learned, it is the importance of friends and family. Do not take these people for granted. They are very important. We are not lone wolves fighting and surviving in the wilds. We are part of a community, and our life will run much smoother once we accept that truth.
Here’s to the wedding party…
Here’s to the beautiful bride…
Weddings are about many things. Firstly it is about leaving the old and starting a new family. In China, often the man will give 100% of his pay to the wife. She will then use the money to build up a family, a home, and a community standing. That is quite different from the United States, where the man may only give a small portion of his earnings to the wife.
In fact, a Chinese bride would rather get 100% of what the husband makes, even if it is a very small amount, instead of a small percentage of a huge wealthy man’s income. I know, 5% of a million dollars is much more than 100% of a hundred dollars. But, Chinese women are not like American women. They want 100% of their man. Nothing less than that would do.
So here’s to the beautiful Chinese bride…
The Chinese bride is often stunning in the traditional Chinese wedding dress.
Conclusion
Personally, the best thing that I ever did was get married to my wife. I have never been very rich, and our life has been quite modest. However, she still sticks beside me. Even though I get older and I have gained weight.
Here’s a Chinese girl wearing a ethnic Chinese minority wedding dress for a section of her wedding day. The hat that she wears is always 100% solid silver, and is often handed down from grandmother to mother to daughter.
I sincerely hope that this post can inspire others towards their marriage and their life together. A marriage in China is an awesome experience. May everyone have a great and happy future together!
A Final Word
I just want to add a little something that really means a lot to me, and that I want to impress upon you; the reader.
You know, fairy tales really do come true. Don’t listen to all those jaded folk who have had some less than pleasant experiences. If you are good, and you have a good kind heart, your world can be wonderful. Please keep that faith.
There is a boy for every girl in this world. You might think that you are too strange, too much of an odd-ball, but that is not true. There is a person out there for you. And…
And, when you see that person. Don’t be afraid. Go up to them and say hi. That other person is a gift from God. Don’t throw it away.
Yes. Christmas is celebrated in China. Surprise! In fact, it is celebrated all over China, from the biggest “Westernized Cities” such as Hong Kong and Shanghai to the lowest village in the Hunan mountains. It is celebrated with vigor. With this in mind, let’s talk about a Chinese Christmas.
Firstly, American Christmas is different than a Chinese Christmas. There are many reasons for this. The big one is that Christmas is being phased out by mega-corporations. Of course, there is a big progressive anti-Christmas purge prevalent in the United States today. Thank you Barrack Obama. By the rabid success of it, you might get the impression that it is “old fashioned”, obsolete, and out-of-step with the rest of the world. However, nothing could be further from the truth.
It is Americans that are getting out of step with the rest of the world. Christmas is not only accepted, but is growing and embraced warmly. This is especially true in China, no matter what the American main-steam media wants to portray.
Here is Christmas at the MixC in LouHu (downtown Shenzhen, China). Like everything in China, it is all done in a large scale.
Christmas is just as popular as it ever has been. In fact, it’s popularity is actually expanding. Maybe not in the United States, but the rest of the world welcomes the holiday; the rituals, and the good will. Christmas is a truly popular holiday.
Today in China
Today in China, I see people putting up their artificial Christmas trees (in gold and silver colors… there are a handful of fake green trees as well.) in their business offices. In the malls, I see Chinese families picking out Christmas trees in the stores, and getting some decorations to put on their doors, windows and walls. I see grandma’s and aunties picking out big red sweaters with logos of deer and Santa Claus themes on it. I see little kids running around the toy section, while parents look at the educational toys.
Santa Claus in China. Just like in the United States, Santa makes his appearances in malls, community plazas and other social venues. He often finds his way to bars, and pubs, and there are often many Santa’s hanging out at the various KTV’s.
In storefronts, the workers are scraping off last year’s Christmas decorations. Then washing the windows, and applying new decorations of Santa’s sleigh, Christmas trees, and a very jolly “Merry Christmas!” in big words. They place it predominantly in the very front of the windows and doors. It’s where everyone can see. It’s so that everyone can have good wishes and to bless the establishment with good will.
Differences between Western Christmas and Communist Chinese Christmas
There are differences, of course. For one, in the West (and when I mean the “West”, I generally mean America), the difference is that the Chinese consider Christmas to be the start of good-will for the year.
While, we in the West consider it just as a long holiday. So when they put up decorations, they place it there to last the entire year. This includes such things as the Christmas decorations, and to a lesser extent (even) the Christmas tree.
Malls, of course, will only have the Christmas tree up for the month. Offices, and personal homes, it could stay up all year long in certain cases.
Chinese students dressed up to help Sana. They sing Christmas carols, and learn all about Christmas from Western Expats.
Of course, in America, Christmas and the Christmas season lasts the month of December. Offices would take co-workers out to long lunches and have company-paid cocktails (oh, am I dating myself again? Sorry, for the dated reference.), yearly bonus checks (whoops! Another dated reference.), and of course the Christmas end-of-year blow-out party.
With the profits that have been pouring into American companies over the last two years, this most traditional of company perks, must still be alive…eh? It sure as heck better. There is no excuse for not having a Christmas party. In China, even companies that are hemorrhaging money have Christmas parties.
Christmas party for a technology company in China. This one took pace in 2017. As should be obvious, parties in China are very participative and has copus amounts of food and alcoholic beverages for the employees to enjoy.
In Chinese Christmas parties, you will find bosses handing out “red envelopes” full of cash, and then also handing out year-end bonuses on top of the red envelopes. You will find co-workers getting drunk on grain alcohol (baijiu), beer and red wine. You will find girls getting frisky, and guys throwing up in the mens-room.
Yup. That’s China.
In China, while there will be traditions for Christmas, many are reserved for the huge celebration one month later. Those traditions are reserved for a month later for the Chinese New Year celebrations (CNY).
During CNY, it is a non-stop eating and drinking festival with enormous quantities of moonshine (Baijiu), endless huge buffets and meals, and long periods of rest spent watching sports on televisions.
What’s not to love?
In China, many families watch sports on television. They like to watch soccer (football) and basketball.
Chinese Christmas Behaviors
Here, in China, companies will send out Christmas cards, though mostly it has been modernized to “e-cards” sent out through the e-mail system. Companies will deliver boxes of tea, chocolate, cookies, and fruit to companies that do business in the West. If the company doesn’t deal directly with the rest, these gifts are reserved for CNY.
Here is a holiday promotion from Pacific Coffee. As you can see the advertisement is in English and Chinese. As this promotion is out of a Westernized Chinese city; Hong Kong.
People will welcome you with a hearty “Merry Christmas”, and you will see Christmas specials and new offerings in the various coffee houses and pubs.
People will welcome you with a hearty “Merry Christmas!”
For instance, the Starbuck’s alternative; Pacific Coffee, will offer a nutmeg and cinnamon coffee special that comes with a blueberry cheesecake. Chain restaurants such as Cafe de Coral will start to advertise “Christmas Holiday Platters”. You place the order and they deliver it to your house on Christmas day. (Or in the afternoon, if you have to work.) They even offer “American style menus” that are very attractive to the Chinese…
Holiday menu at Cafe de Coral, offering “American food” for the holiday. Why, it almost makes you feel at home.
Working on Christmas
Typically, everyone works on Christmas. It’s not really considered to be a holiday worth to have the time off from. However, it is considered to be a holiday that represents the start of something.
Western firms that operate in China, of course, offer their expat staff Christmas off. The Chinese workers could care less. To them, it is a holiday, but not something that you would stay home for.
Panda caretakers provide a special Christmas meal to the much beloved Panda. The Chinese have come to embrace Christmas a time of goodwill and the start of a new page in one’s life.
Reason for the Holiday
If you were to ask a Chinese person what Christmas represents, the answer would vary depending on who you asked. Most younger people (under 35 years of age) would answer that it was the birthday of Jesus.
Older folk would say that it is a Western holiday with many suggesting that it was used to sell products and promote good will during the Western version of CNY.
Chinese Christmas apples. In China, many families send fruit as gifts. One theme is to have fruit with good will and sayings on the fruit. Here are some Christmas apples.
In China, the people have no qualms with Jesus, Saint Nick, Rudolf the red nosed reindeer, and Christmas trees. In fact, that is one of the most astounding things that I have noticed when I would get an American intern over a the offices during Christmas.
They would be astounded and confounded that we even would say “Merry Christmas” and not the far more bland generic emotionless version “Happy Holiday”. So, in my mind there is some kind of anti-Christmas-crusade going on in the United States today. At least in the colleges and universities.
Really! How else can you explain the American youth’s revulsion towards Christmas good will, cheer, and the exchange of presents?
WUHAN, CHINA – DECEMBER 2: (CHINA OUT) Two Chinese men dressed in Santa Claus outfits walk past dancers in a shopping mall on December 2, 2006 in Wuhan of Hubei Province, China. Western traditions such as the Christmas Day, Valentine’s Day and Halloween have become increasingly popular among Chinese youth, as shops, restaurants and bars promote their businesses during these holidays. (Photo by China Photos/Getty Images)
Chinese Children (and adults) answer the question; Why is Christmas celebrated in the West?
“Christmas is Santa’s birthday!” – Mao Fei’er, girl, 7, primary school student, Henan province
“It’s to celebrate the Virgin Mary giving birth to Christ.” – Wang Mingxin, female, 19, college student, Shandong
“Because they are jealous that China has a Lunar New Year to celebrate!” – Huang Li, male, 30, sales manager, Hunan province
“December 25 is the birthday of Jesus Christ.” – Wu Haitao, female, 42, housewife, Shanxi province
“I don’t know… I guess because it is fun?” – Chen Xin, male, 35, worker, Jiangxi province
“They think the birthday of Christ is December 25, so they make the day Christmas. It was recorded in The Bible.” – Yin Xiumei, female, 60, retired teacher, Qingdao
“I don’t know… but I do know that people will have a wonderful holiday in western countries.” – Lydia Yan, 22, female, graduate student, Guangzhou
“Because
it’s Jesus’ birthday… you know, Jesus who built up a perfect world
for the soul and welcomes any soul who comes to his world if the soul is
good and admires him.” – Eric Fang, 23, male, graduate student, Beijing
Over the years, Christmas has greatly increased in popularity. It is now considered a commercial holiday, and all that fake news about it being banned in China are just so outrageous that you have to wonder what side of the planet the writer is from. Just about everyone in China celebrates Christmas to one degree or the other.
Chinese Adults are asked; What’s your favorite Chinese tradition?
“I like the tradition of Santa giving presents.” – Li Dong, male, 24, freelancer, Beijing
“I like the carol ‘We Wish You a Merry Christmas’. The first time I heard it was at a shopping mall. I was with my friends at that time and the atmosphere was very warm. I’ve liked that song since then.” – Li Keyu, male, 21, college student, Shandong
“I like these beautiful legends, like the reindeer taking Santa to give presents to children around the world. I also heard that teachers in Finland’s kindergarten will tell children that the footprints left in the snow are from elves. That is very romantic.” – Shen Xiaoyan, female, 33, designer, Jiangsu
“The tradition I like is to dine together with your family, colleagues, or exchange gifts and cards during Christmas.” – Wu Xinyan, female, 37, illustrator, Hunan
“I like the scenes in movies which show families decorating Christmas tree together and preparing gifts for one another.” – Wang Mingxin, female, 19, college student, Shandong
“Our shop will have promotional activities during the festival. As to myself, I will buy some decorative stuff and hang them to make my home warm.” – Zheng Liren, male, 33, Taobao shop owner, Beijing
“Receiving presents from my friends, like apples.” – Liang Pan, 23, female, employee, Beijing
“I like the red hats people wear during Christmas.” – Huang Li, male, 30, sales manager, Hunan province
“My favorite tradition is Santa giving kids presents and the big dinner…I know Santa is a tale, which has broken a lot of kids’ hearts, but why do they let a fat man come into the house down the chimney? What if he got stuck?” – Eric Fang, 23, male, graduate student, Beijing
What I do for Christmas, as an American Expat…
This is a good question. Typically, I only work a partial day at the office, and come in to say hi to everyone and wish them a great an merry Christmas. I also go out and take the staff out to lunch and we eat and drink some beer before we return back tot he office.
We usually have a small (ok, tiny) token Christmas tree. And at the house we do sing Christmas songs while we drink red wine or egg nog. I also get on skype and call distant friends and relatives. The dog gets a special meal, and we spend extra time letting him vacuum up all the smells outside.
We don’t usually buy presents, but we do eat a lot, and the traditional meal is usual a chicken or a ham, or a spread. Turkey is nearly impossible to procure out here.
Christmas Presents from China
I have collected and sent some presents to friends and relatives in the States from China. As strange as it seems, they are not interested in things like household appliances, or the latest gizmo out of Shenzhen. Instead, it is a reproduction of a Mao-era utility bag with a political slogan; SERVE THE PEOPLE.
Retro bag with the logo “Serve the people” in Chinese characters on the side. It is a very popular item, apparently, in some enclaves in the Untied States. Eh? Whatever. Governments will do what governments do. Be careful.
I guess that Donald’s Trump slogan “Make America Great Again” is in line with this. The governments role is to serve the people.
Chinese Christmas Parties
The Chinese treat Christmas differently than we do in the West. Thus the reason for my rather quiet and subdued Christmas celebrations.
Here is how you say Merry Christmas in Chinese. It’s a great thing to know, I’ll tell you what!
The Chinese people are more likely to hold grand Christmas parties rather than a family-get-together on Christmas Day. The Christmas parties are usually held in big hotels, plazas and in pubs and bars. It has been my experience that many expat parties are held in expat bars, while most native Chinese tend to celebrate in a favorite restaurant where they rent out a back room to party in. They also tend to have them after work hours, as people still work on Christmas day.
They are of various kinds of parties. Some are simple affairs, while others tend to be quite elaborate, with performances, balls, and cocktail parties. Usually there is always an appearance of old Saint Nick, often attended by some very pretty female elves. Oh baby!
Yupper. That is most certainly China.
Here is a Christmas celebration back in 2015. The Chinese treat Christmas as a time of celebration. They happily say “Merry Christmas” and welcome the holidays in culturally different ways than Americans do.
Express Goodwill and Philanthropy
Chinese Christmas Day is also an occasion to share goodwill and be generous to people in need like orphans, lonely old people, the sick and homeless people. Many Chinese people will bring gifts to orphanage, Old People’s Home and hospitals to encourage these people. Which pretty much differs from what you would see in the States.
Here is a Christmas drive for presents and clothing for children on Christmas. In the United States, we tend to call these events “Toys for Tots”. Well, they have them in China also. Bet ya didn’t know that?
In China, Christmas marks a special time where a person can repent from their past mistakes and devote themselves towards good deeds that benefit the community and others in need.
Even the “Dancing grandmothers” get in on the action. Often they would don festive attire to do their dances. here we have some Chinese dancing grandmothers in Christmas attire.
I have never participated in this ritual, but all my in-laws do. They feel that it is their duty to their ancestors, and to be a good person and a good citizen. They sweep the tomb, burn incense at the temple, and give donations to causes from poor people to homeless dogs and cats.
Most Christmas Decorations come from China.
Ever wondered where all those shiny and glittery plastic Christmas decorations come from? Nope, neither have I.
They are made in China. Apparently, according to an expose by The Guardian, most are produced inside the Chinese village of Yiwu. Of course, a “village” by Chinese standards is the size of a city, by American standards. There, in Yiwu, 600 factories produce 60 percent of all of the world’s festive decorations. This mini city is divided into five districts and one of them is devoted entirely to making Christmas ornaments.
Chinese made decorations from the city of Yiwu. THis city makes the vast bulk of Christmas, and holiday decorations for the world.
Once made, the decorations are packaged up and transported to the Yiwu International Trade Market, aka China Commodity City, which has been described by some foreigners as a “4 km sq wonder-world of plastic tat”. This is the place where many of the world’s traders get their stock—everything from inflatable toys to artificial Christmas trees. This metropolis of global consumerism was described by the UN as the “largest small commodity wholesale market in the world”.
Hum. It sounds to me like a great opportunity for an enterprising young American businessman. Eh?
How Christmas is celebrated in Communist Russia
Only in America have the progressive socialist leftists managed to suppress Christmas. The rest of the world celebrates it. Yes. Not only in Communist China, but in Communist Russia as well.
Father Frost didn’t drop presents off for Russian children on Dec. 25. And he won’t on Orthodox Christmas (Jan. 7), either. Rather, Ded Moroz and his lovely snow maiden assistant, Snegurochka, are attached to New Year’s Eve, which in Russia is the new year and the secular bits of Christmas like trees and presents all rolled into one.
Initially, the Soviets tried to replace Christmas with a more appropriate komsomol (youth communist league) related holiday, but, shockingly, this did not take. And by 1928 they had banned Christmas entirely, and Dec. 25 was a normal working day. Then, in 1935, Josef Stalin decided, between the great famine and the Great Terror, to return a celebratory tree to Soviet children. But Soviet leaders linked the tree not to religious Christmas celebrations, but to a secular new year, which, future-oriented as it was, matched up nicely with Soviet ideology.
Ded Moroz was brought back. He found a snow maid from folktales to provide his lovely assistant, Snegurochka. The blue, seven-pointed star that sat atop the imperial trees was replaced with a red, five-pointed star, like the one on Soviet insignia. It became a civic, celebratory holiday, one that was ritually emphasized by the ticking of the clock, champagne, the hymn of the Soviet Union, the exchange of gifts, and big parties.
Christmas itself was reinstated 25 years ago, in 1991. And it is indeed celebrated by religious (and even pseudo-religious) Russians. But the big celebrations are still reserved for New Year’s Eve.
“The New Year has become so ingrained in the society,” says Izmirlieva, “it is unifying.” Plus, “It’s for those who are not Christian, those who are anti-Christian, or members of other religions. It is still very strong.
Christmas is celebrated in China. It is, however, celebrated differently than it is in the United States. Where today, many American companies have “Diversity Officers” who will clamp down on saying the word “Christmas” and “Merry Christmas”, the Chinese will happily give the traditional greetings and festive blessings to everyone.
I personally think that the progressive rewriting of Christmas is sad and dangerous. When you bleed away color, passion, and purpose, all you have left is a dull and valueless life. One more deserving of burka clad (barefoot and pregnant) women from the middle east.
To which, I will give a very Chinese Merry Christmas blessing to the reader, and I offer my sincerest hope that you get to spend the holiday with friends and loved ones. MERRY CHRISTMAS!
When people discover what my role was in MAJestic, one of the first things that they ask me is whether or not I can “tell them the secrets of the universe”. After all, I was intimately entangled with another very ancient, and highly technology advanced species. Certainly, they argue, I must have learned something… Well, in a way, they are correct. I actually DID learn a thing or two. The problem is that the frame of reference is so unlike what we humans think that it sounds fantastical.
When I tell them this, most everyone says “try me”.
Well here is my post on this matter. The first thing that everyone must understand is that just about everything that we know, what we think and our assumptions about everything is pretty faulted. It is all pretty much false, and following our preconceived assumptions will lead us into confusion and into dead-ends.
What we think the Universe is…
Most people, not all, but most believe that the universe is shared. What we sense, either naturally or through our machines, describe our “known” universe. We measure changes to our universe by a device known as “time”. We consider it a “straight arrow” that cannot be undone.
Further, depending on our religious persuasions, we add elements of the “unseen” to this universe. These “unseen” elements can include Heaven, Hell, and various “planes of existence”. It’s all sort of like this. Look familiar?
This is what the traditional view of what the universe is to most people today. All that we see, and sense is considered the “known” universe. We all exist within it together. It changes along a route that we refer to as “time”. Additionally, once our consciousness leaves this universe, it can go into other universes (depending on our actions) known as Heaven and Hell.
This is the traditional view of what the universe is. While there are variations from person to person, the concept of what it is pretty much stays the same.
Baptists, Methodists, and other Christians consider Heaven to be the “reward” for a God-Fearing life. Other religions, such as Islam and Buddha, describe it slightly differently and utilize different terms and avenues, but all pretty much follow the duality model: good vs. bad.
There are outliers, such as Satanists, Wicca, and their ilk that describe the unseen universes differently. They ascribe benefits to Hell rather than to Heaven. They also conjure up different avenues of behavior and rules. Never the less, they also follow the duality model.
Revisions to the Traditional Understandings
This model of the universe worked pretty good for a long, long time. We lived in a Newtonian world were science was formed through observation. What ever we observed within our reality, that defined the limits of our universe. And it worked well.
We developed fluid mechanics, airplanes, high-rise skyscrapers, radio and television. We put a man (actually a couple) on the Moon. Indeed, we thought that we had it all figured out.
That is, however, until we started to probe deeper and deeper into the secrets of our reality. We studied and peered deeper and deeper into what an atom is, and discovered that it wasn’t the smallest thing in the universe. In fact we discovered that it was made up of even smaller things…!
And when we peered into what made up these smaller things, we discovered that there were even much smaller things that they were made up of. We kept on digging, deeper and deeper. And as we dug down, we came up and made some very stunning discoveries.
We discovered the basement foundation from which our universe is made from. We call this understanding, and this area; “Quantum Physics”.
As we explored this “foundation” or “basement” we “unlocked” some secrets of the universe. In fact, much of what we discovered was so very strange that many in the sciences refused to accept it.
We discovered that reality; or our universe can be changed by thought. We discovered that time doesn’t really exist at all. We discovered that there are other world-lines and other time-lines, we discovered that anything and everything was possible. At which we then discovered that Heaven and Hell could actually exist.
People have tried to incorporate these discoveries in different ways to their understanding of the universe.
Some refused to accept it; like the MWI. “It doesn’t exist because it is not yet proven to my satisfaction”.
Others tried to incorporate it into their flawed understanding of the universe – creating a “Frankenstein” or bastardized model.
Others tried to accept it, but found themselves hampered as there have not yet been any kind of unified agreement as to what our reality is.
Many people, follow one or more of these behaviors – depending on their experiences, knowledge, and tendency to resist new information and change.
Here is (for instance) how many people try to incorporate the MWI (Many Word Interpretation) into their understanding of what the universe is…
This is how many people interpret what the MWI means relative to their (faulted) understanding of the universe. In their mind, it represents an infinite number of alternative “world-lines” representing every possible combination of our universe, as observed. Time still proceeds forward in their view point, even though they realize that by their calculations, it does not exist.
Consider “Time Traveler” Mr. John Titor
When “time traveler” Mr. John Titor entered our world-line, people naturally tried to fit his narrative and his story to their understanding of what reality is. (The ruling is still “out” whether or not he was a “real” time traveler. Here, we use him as an example.) He claimed that he had a “time machine” and could visit these alternative world-lines along the time track. In so doing, visiting them like we would take a boat and go from island to island, visiting and exploring.
It would look something like this…
Light in the sky. Here Here is the path that John Titor apparently took with his “time machine”. It is portrayed as understood by his fans (and detractors).
I do want to tell you, the reader this. Indeed, this type of travel, as described by John Titor, is indeed possible.
However, it is very limited. In his description of his dimensional displacement machine, it is clear that the VGL sensors and the gravity sensing is very crude. Obviously, his travel was limited to fifth-dimensional travel. As such, he would only be able to travel in his existing body to meet other on other world-lines. (That is a fundamental limitation of fifth dimensional transport.)
But, you know, you don’t have to limit yourself to that kind of travel.
That is because, he was forced to travel in that way due to the limitations of his equipment. So, from his point of view, it only looked that way (well, actually… he probably did understood the real nature of the universe.). To travel and maintain the reality of our universe, you need to understand it, and what it actually is.
We do not share a reality
Firstly and most importantly, what we see is NOT at all what there is.
The universe where we all share one universe; one reality is not true. We are not all individual consciousnesses all sharing one physical universe. It is not like this…
Individual consciousnesses do not share the same reality. In fact, while it is possible that this could happen momentarily, it is exceedingly rare.
This understanding is faulty. This is not the way things work, and it is certainly not the way that the MWI operates.
Our physical world operates at the pleasure of our consciousness.
It is not the other way around; it is not where there is this big universe, and we are trapped within it. We do not join others when we are born and share the same universe. We do not look at others and see the physical manifestation of their consciousnesses. Instead, each consciousness operates within it’s very own, unique reality.
SECRET #1
The rule is this; there is only one consciousness for each reality. Having another consciousness within the reality that your consciousness occupies is exceedingly rare.
The rule is this; there is only one consciousness for each reality.
As such, the true nature of our universe looks quite different from what most people assume it to be…
There is only one consciousness per world-line reality. Indeed, there is an infinite number of realities. And, the vast majority of them are devoid of any kind of consciousness. It appears that we share the reality with others, but those “others” are “quantum shadows” of what another consciousness might do and act upon our reality. Note also that there is no such thing as time in this model. Time is actually the moment by moment natural migration of our consciousness through these world-lines.
Thus, the big “secret of the universe” is that the universe is not at all what it looks like.
The universe is a near infinite number of realities. We, our consciousness, moves in and out of those realities. This movement is perceived as time.
“Time” is the apparent movement through realities.
The direction of movement (selection of reality) is defined by our consciousness. It is determined by thought.
Thoughts steer our consciousness in and out of the various realities.
Our universe is defined by our consciousness. What we think about creates our reality. We can act upon those thoughts or not, but they will tend to shape what will happen to the reality that surrounds us.
What time actually is
Time is the perception that consciousness has to the changes within our reality. Remember, thoughts alter our reality. It is not only our consciousness, but the consciousnesses of others. While they might not share our reality their thoughts do have the ability to alter the changes that influence the reality we exist in.
Now…
Reality is not fixed. It is constantly changing. It is changing moment to moment. Each moment that change in our reality is perceived as “time”.
This is what “time” really is…
This is what “the passage of time” really is. Our thoughts change our universe. They change our reality. Not just the thoughts generated by our consciousness, but also the thoughts generated by other consciousnesses as well. thus, we actually move from one “bubble” or “snapshot” of reality to another. Each movement is a natural movement from one “world-line” to another. This is what time actually is. Time is the movement of consciousness from one momentary reality to another one with small variations.
SECRET #2
This is thus another 'secret of the universe". Time does not exist. Not mathematically, and not physically. It is the perception of our own individual consciousness as it moves from one "bubble of reality" to another.
Think of a movie reel. It consists of individual photos that are strung together. By changing the images you obtain the illusion of movement. That is what time is.
Each world-line in the MWI is like a frame in a movie.
The movement of the frames is viewed by consciousness as “time”.
This is an illustration of what time actually is. Time does not exist. It is a perception that our consciousness has as it moves and weaves in and out of different world-lines. Here we use an old-fashioned movie reel projector to help illustrate this understanding.
Putting it all together
Since we now know how the universe works; we can now understand how one can conduct both “world-line” travel and a sub-set of it; “time travel”.
The best and “cleanest” way to conduct world-line travel is to control your thoughts and actions. You think good things, and your life eventually unfolds in the direction that your thoughts lead it towards. This will take time depending on your personal discipline as well as the thought influences of the consciousnesses (associated with the “quantum shadows”) surrounding you.
You can also utilize “brute force” physical methods to bend the reality that you inhabit. This is the method as described by Mr. John Titor, and the method that I describe as the “dimensional portal” that I utilized as part of my entry into MAJestic way back in 1981.
And let’s not leave out Mr. John Titor…
But… as so very exciting as this all is, the fact remains that this is all a very crude way to traverse the MWI.
The better way to traverse the MWI, provided that it is in alignment with our soul’s individualized objectives, is to conduct 7th dimensional egress. Not the more limiting 5th dimensional techniques. I discuss this in other posts…
Here, we utilize a more powerful technique. Instead of moving an entire physical body (with the consciousness) to a new world-line, we only move the consciousness. The consciousness then travels the MWI and occupies the associated physical container as necessary.
There are, of course, limitations and variations. Some individuals elect to migrate physical bodies and vehicles using this technology. That is a rather crude way of utilizing this technology, but it does have it’s advantages. What ever they may be.
Overall, you can easily identify 7th dimensional migration by the inability for the observer to witness entry or egress on to a world-line.
7th dimensional egress is noted by an inability to observe the action or entering or leaving reality.
Of course, when we start talking about world-line travel, especially the migration of consciousness, we need to understand what it is, and how it manifests. here is some very good discussions on this subject.
When I am asked about the “secrets of the universe” I must admit that I do know quite a bit. I understand how things work on many levels, I understand the nature of man, of soul, and of the Heavens. I understand of our reality, and our place in the universe. But, you know, all this is meaningless unless you first understand that everything that you know, what you think you know, and what you are taught in most schools is wrong. It is wrong, wrong, wrong!
Of course, no one wants to hear this.
They don’t exist. Well, at not at least along the lines of popular literature and the on-going narrative.
People want to hear things that agree with their personal views, and their own personal understandings of the universe. They want to hear that you can buy your way into Heaven through charitable donations. They want to hear that being popular, famous or wealthy are elements of success. They want to hear that scientists have full control over our lives and fully understand the universe. They want to hear about Reptilians, and star children that will teach us the ways of the Heavens…. oh, yeah.
There are no Reptilians, or star beings. You might not want to hear this, but it is the truth.
There is no spiritual beings that is going to show you the way through “magic crystals” (that you can buy on-line for only $99.98.). There isn’t any shape-changing Reptilians that are secreting directing the United States government towards a one-world government. Nope. That idea is from certain very rich oligarchs. Extraterrestrials couldn’t care less.
Seriously. They don’t give a flying fuck about that. Seriously.
OK. Later on I discuss some of these more “physical” issues that everyone is concerned about. I will cover Global warming or global cooling….(what ever is the popular narrative at the time). I will cover bases on Mars, and technology transfer. I will cover biological sampling (you all refer to them as “abductions”). I will cover various OOPARTS and of course, why humans are going (apparently) “bat-shit crazy” right now (It’s a sentience sorting behavior.)
All that will come in time. But, not today.
MAJestic Related Posts – Training
These are posts and articles that revolve around how I was recruited for MAJestic and my training. Also discussed is the nature of secret programs. I really do not know why the organization was kept so secret. It really wasn’t because of any kind of military concern, and the technologies were
MAJestic Related Posts – Training
These are posts and articles that revolve around how I was recruited for MAJestic and my training. Also discussed is the nature of secret programs. I really do not know why the organization was kept so secret. It really wasn’t because of any kind of military concern, and the technologies were way too involved for any kind of information transfer. The only conclusion that I can come to is that we were obligated to maintain secrecy at the behalf of our extraterrestrial benefactors.
MAJestic Related Posts – Our Universe
These particular posts are concerned about the universe that we are all part of. Being entangled as I was, and involved in the crazy things that I was, I was given some insight. This insight wasn’t anything super special. Rather it offered me perception along with advantage. Here, I try to impart some of that knowledge through discussion.
Enjoy.
MAJestic Related Posts – World-Line Travel
These posts are related to “reality slides”. Other more common terms are “world-line travel”, or the MWI. What people fail to grasp is that when a person has the ability to slide into a different reality (pass into a different world-line), they are able to “touch” Heaven to some extent. Here are posts that cover this topic.
John Titor Related Posts
Another person, collectively known by the identity of “John Titor” claimed to utilize world-line (MWI egress) travel to collect artifacts from the past. He is an interesting subject to discuss. Here we have multiple posts in this regard.
way too involved for any kind of information transfer. The only conclusion that I can come to is that we were obligated to maintain secrecy at the behalf of our extraterrestrial benefactors.
MAJestic Related Posts – Our Universe
These particular posts are concerned about the universe that we are
all part of. Being entangled as I was, and involved in the crazy things
that I was, I was given some insight. This insight wasn’t anything super
special. Rather it offered me perception along with advantage. Here, I
try to impart some of that knowledge through discussion.
Enjoy.
MAJestic Related Posts – World-Line Travel
These posts are related to “reality slides”. Other more common terms
are “world-line travel”, or the MWI. What people fail to grasp is that
when a person has the ability to slide into a different reality (pass
into a different world-line), they are able to “touch” Heaven to some
extent. Here are posts that cover this topic.
John Titor Related Posts
Another person, collectively known by the identity of “John Titor”
claimed to utilize world-line (MWI egress) travel to collect artifacts
from the past. He is an interesting subject to discuss. Here we have
multiple posts in this regard.
From the late 1990’s until around 2001, the Internet was “rocked” by the sudden appearance and subsequent disappearance of a Mr. John Titor. This person claimed to be a “time traveler” by using inter-dimensional travel.
He posted his thoughts and opinions on numerous time travel BBS.
He was rapidly dismissed as a hoax, in unity, by all the major debunking organizations, and his posts mysteriously disappeared off the Internet. Since then, all the sources that he posted on all found that their files related to John Titor were all corrupted and could not be reclaimed.
That was the case for over a decade.
Then, in 2014, a number of private individuals managed to piece together independently saved dialogs relating to John Titor. They constructed numerous websites that hosted these reclaimed dialogs, and posted them on the Internet for others to view.
Presented here are recovered posts from the Internet collected in 2014. This posting concerns the TTI BBS board. As John Titor posted on numerous “time travel” boards. Metallicman posts 5, 6 and 7 concern a different BBS.
It is not known if any posts have been deleted or altered. They are presented as they were found by the author. These posts are independent from the other collections presented on this website previously and includes information not presented elsewhere.
Important Warning
The information within this series of posts are speculative. I have no factual information if this John Titor is what he claimed to be. It is presented herein as the only (or maybe, one of the only) sources that claim to be associated with the vehicles that pop in and out of our reality from time to time.
He was, as far as I know, never associated with MAJestic in any way.
Original John Titor Posts – Part 8 – Transcripts D
Here are the original John Titor posts from the TTI Board. Obtained from HERE.
This thread has been saved from the TTI board. It no longer exists on that board because the administrator said it became corrupted and they had to delete it. This thread it is here only for archival and historical purpose and for your reading enjoyment.
TimeTravel_0 is John Titor.
John Titor dialog is in normal text, text by others are italicized. Metallicman corrected spelling and some punctuation to make the text easier to read and understand. For unedited text, please refer to the source.
John Titor dialog is in normal text in brown color, text by others are normal.
When referencing other non-Titor questions, green color is used.
Purple color is for non-related text.
Metallicman comments are in red color.
TTI Board Introductory Statement(s)
This is the introductory statement on the TTI board. As the reader can tell, it makes all kinds of interesting statements in accordance with conventional understandings of reality. However, reality is not as what is conventionally understood. Therefore, most of what is presented is just simply nonsense.
Time-travel Paradoxes!
Author Topic: Time-travel Paradoxes!
Paul (Paul Member posted 23 October 2000 05:14)
THE PARADOXES…
If you went back in time and visited your granny during her ninth birthday don’t kill her! Because if you put a gun to her head and pull the trigger she could not have given birth to your mum. YOU certainly were never born…
Therefore you could not have killed anyone as you never existed. Now this means your granny couldn’t have been killed by you. She didn’t die nine years old. This permits you to be born.
If you were born could you go back and kill your granny? No, not your real granny. This general idea has been used in Back to the future. Marty nearly stops himself from being born when he prevents his parents from falling in love.
[The reader can plainly see that this entire scenario is based on the single premise that there is only ONE reality, and that it is SHARED. As such, there is an "arrow of time" that flows in one direction.
This premise is terribly flawed as that is not how the universe works.
However, for archival purposes, we will elect to continue to follow this narrative to see how Mr. John Titor jumps in and enters in this dialog.- Metallicman]Solving The Problem
1, You simply can’t change history meaning if you go back in time you have no free will (as shown in Twelve Monkeys, Crime Traveler etc.) Events will get in your way if you try to kill your granny. YOU CAN’T DO IT.
2, When you so-called change history you’re actually moving up a different branch in time into another universe. The previous universe (where you were born) still exists. When you fire the gun you’re really killing another version of your grandmother.
3, Any actions you make in the so-called past has no affects on the present. It’s a different time-line universe.
The laws true solutions don’t present real time-travel as you go into another world.
Conclusion
We can’t simply use the grandmother paradox to rule out time-travel claiming it causes logical inconsistencies. We need to look at all the possibilities.
The author, Paul, then goes forward with his ideas on building a “time machine”. So that a person who inhabits a “shared ultimate reality” can move forward and backward along the entropic path…
How could we build a time machine?
The mathematics of general relativity suggest that under extreme conditions space-time might become so warped it would be possible to travel back in time. There is also the possibility of tunnels in time created by negative mass.
[1] Very long rotating cylinders of matter-proposed by Frank Tipler
[2] Kerr’s spinning black-holes since most stars spin this becomes worth looking (proposed by Roy Kerr).
[3] Cosmic strings-(as Richard Cott suggested)
[4] Traveling faster than light – would take us back in time(as suggested by solutions to relativity). Wormholes might allow us to outpace light (if you walk through the short cut quicker than light through conventional (normal) space.
[5] Tachyon -are sub-atomic particles which always travel faster than light and therefore move back in time constantly. They have not yet been found and remain hypothetical.
[6] Contracting Universe- Time might then be running backwards but since everything else also would it’s unsuitable.
[7] Macro-wormholes(Kip Thorne showed how we could use it as a time machine).
Now, of course, all these “solutions” are ingenious and curious. But they are all faulted. As they rely on a universe the DOES NOT EXIST. There is no such thing as a shared universe. There are actually individual realities that are occupied by an individual consciousness.
Never the less, let’s continue with this fiction…
time – paradox
Paradoxes
Grandfather paradox
Suppose you could go back in time, lets say several decades and found your grandfather when he was two years old. In his house you could grab a knife and stab him to death.
He doesn’t get the chance to have children with your grandmother.
Therefore either your mother or father doesn’t get born.
Your parents can’t give birth to you because one of them don’t exist.
You could never have been born and don’t even exist.
But could your grandfather have been killed by someone who doesn’t exist? He must have lived through his childhood. This would allow you to exist if this is the case. Seemingly you can go back in time to commit the murder if you are born but then you would never have been born. And so on and so on. This situation is not consistent with itself. It doesn’t make sense and can’t possibly happen.
So, then the author; Paul, continues and offers solutions to this faulted narrative. Since the basis of his understanding is terribly in error, the solutions seem to be problematic and contentious.
Solutions
1, You simply can’t change the past. Time will stop you limiting your freedom while you’re in the past from your point of view. This puts the concept of freewill in serious danger especially if you tell people what’s going to happen to them in their future. If you believe when you go back in time you are from one possible future from everyone else’s point of view they can simply go up any root in time they want.
According to quantum physics Many Worlds theory there are a huge amount of universes where every possibility occurs between them all. In some you’re the opposite sex. In some you won the lottery etc.
[It's things like this that drive me so frustratingly crazy. Yes, the MWI (the Multi-Worlds Theory) does exist and it is a reality. However, don't use it and apply it to your falted understanding of the universe. It replaces what you consider the universe to be.
Instead of one shared universe with a direction arrow of time, that somehow the MWI offers alternatives to...
We have the MWI alone. A consciousness sits within one of an infinite number of realities. Using the proper techniques, you can move about these realities. To the consciousness it may appear that we are traveling in and out of time and in and out of alternative universes. -Metallicman.]
You might be heading towards the universe you originally came from before you traveled back in time. Everything will happen the way you remember it. But all the people you meet are free to decide what they want to do and enter a different universe. Since it’s not possible for you to be there you disappear from their lives. Meeting a time traveler from your future could therefore be very strange.
2, A parallel universe might be created when you seem to change the past. Imagine if time itself was just like a tree. The different branches show different ways events could have happened. Every time we decide to do or not to do something time splits. Even if we are not aware we decided something it have affects. Quantum physics reveals a many worlds theory like this.
In the movie series “Back to the future” this situation is illustrated plainly. Here, we see the Doctor explaining this kind of divergence on a blackboard to Marty.
He continues using this faulted reasoning…
Conclusion
Since this parallel universe is not really your past (despite it’s first appearance) anything you do there does not affect you. You can prevent a version of yourself from being born because you are not really related to anyone there. They just look very like your family and friends. You are not home! You may be somewhere that looks like the place you live but a different universe in quantum physics is a completely different reality.
[Yes, it is not really your past.
Firstly, you are in a new world-line. If you occupy a new body that conforms to that reality, you would inherit the new scars, hair styles, aches and pains, and memories of the new "you". Right?
As such, you would have no memories of your prior world-line.
But that is NOT what happens.
Firstly, memories are retained in the quantum sphere that lies OUTSIDE of our reality. Thus, your consciousness can occupy any new body and look and act the same, but your old memories would be retained. So if you enter a world-line where everyone speaks Russian, and you came from a world-line where everyone spoke English, you would be in for a big shock. You would not be able to speak Russian.
Now, the good thing is that the migration from one reality to another is natural. It is the way our universe actually works. We consider it the "arrow of time". Every moment we move from the "old" reality to a "new" reality depending on our thoughts. (As well as the thoughts of nearby consciousnesses.)
My MAJestic ELF and EBP machinations through the Oxia Palus facility artifice operated this way, except it utilized seventh dimensional egress technology. MAJestic empowered the <redacted> to have autonomous control over my reality switches in exchange for advanced technology.
My consciousness occupied a new body and inherited a new situation that my old memories would have to adjust towards.
Now, the 5th dimensional egress portal operated differently. Here, we have a transport device that perfected time and geographical transport. Through utilization of this device, it would be possible to enter new world-lines where you could conceivably meet yourself, and alter that timeline.
While this is the entire argument that the John Titor saga, and this particular section of the narrative is all about, it has been my experience that meeting yourself (two "you's" in one reality) is a trivial condition and easily avoided.
As such, it lends me to disbelieve the John Titor story... Except his description of his machine is indicative of a fairly crude mechanism. Which then leads me to reconsider... Oh, well. -Metallicman]
3, No matter what you do in what is really a parallel universe you will do back to your previous universe which is not affected by your previous actions. A space-time wormhole could lead you back to your original unaffected universe.
What came out of the wormhole if the ball never went into it?
Another common example of a paradox is a ball that goes through a wormhole connected with a moment in the past. Therefore it comes out of the other space-time wormhole mouth actually before it went in! Then what might happen? If the ball then hits it’s younger self out of the way of the mouth then it never goes in. But if the ball never did go in the wormhole then how can it ever come out. The existence of the older version of the ball is destroyed i.e. it never falls back in time. But then this version certainly can’t hit the younger version out of the way. So it must go into the wormhole as a collision with it’s older self is evidently the only force that could and did stop the ball from entering the wormhole. This of course is unexplainable and is logically inconsistent.
[Which should tell you a lot about the faulted understanding of our universe. But NO! It is just ignored as a "problem" with the logic in the understanding. People, we need to listen and think.
The first thing we need to do is throw away the outdated and obsolete understanding of what our universe it. Our assumptions are wrong and results in many dead-ends for scientific pursuit. -Metallicman.]
Continuing with the TTI introduction…
But the situation could happen differently to allow it to become self consistent.
1, What if after the ball comes out of the wormhole at an earlier time it does hit it’s previous self but this collision is what makes the ball fall into the mouth in the first place! It hits the other version into the mouth. This would imply that the past or present is affected by the future. In fact in this case the past is dependent on the future.
2, The ball might simply hit it’s other self only slightly so the direction of the ball is not altered enough to cause a paradox.
3, The ball might just miss it’s younger self.
Nature might protect time and prevent paradoxes. From theories and many stories it’s clear that paradoxes cannot happen in the real world.
[This is getting silly. Paradoxes are what occurs when our understanding of reality does not match the true reality. -Metallicman.]
The author continues…
Other types of paradoxes
In the terminator movies John had something important to tell Sarah. Thank her for her help through the hell. Tell her not to give up or he will never exist.
Who wrote the speech?
John certainly didn’t write it. He was told it since he was a kid from Sarah who could remember it. Sarah just recalls what Kyle told her in 1984. Kyle just remembered what John told him to say.
Obviously there are many misunderstandings of what our universe is, what reality is, and how our soul and consciousness interacts with Heaven.
Conclusion
No one wrote it. It exists somehow but not by John, Kyle or Sarah being creative. No one had to write it because it was created by the affect the future on the past had on each other.
If I in 2000 study the history of work done in a private factory and learn about the development of a time machine! Their scientists worked from designs and plans noted in a book (never published)they used. They had no idea how to achieve such technology until they read it.
Then to experiment with temporal(time) paradoxes I am sent back to 1983. The entire building has not even been built as I arrive. Later accidentally I meet one of the scientists and talk to him. When I hear how excited he is I hand him that book which he uses future success. The answers! He is more than willing to read and use the book.
But who came up with the idea of how the time machine is built?
Not any of the scientists as they just followed instructions in that book.
Not me as all I did was hand a scientist a book. No one actually wrote the book and no one had to work it out.
Is this allowed by physical laws?
No one really knows…
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Paul Curran from Co Derry, Ireland
[This message has been edited by Paul (edited 12 January 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Paul (edited 23 January 2001).]
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After that introduction by Paul Curran from Co Derry, Ireland, we see the activity on the TTI BBS…
NoTime unregistered posted 23 October 2000 13:06
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There is no grandfather paradox in the multiverse scenario. In a multiverse, your grandfather’s multiple histories included many in which he was not murdered and many in which he was murdered.
Those many histories in which he was murdered included some involving different male or female murderers who killed him. It’s possible that you were one of those murderers in one of your previous lifetimes or incarnations.
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SHADOWshadow unregistered posted 24 October 2000 22:37
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Paradox can’t hold a candle to “twinadox”. That's when you time travel back and MARRY your grandmother and become your own grandpaw. What if you had a twin brother and the THREE of you all show up one day, wich one is the other you? How do you know that there shouldn’t be four of you and somebodys missing? Cheesh man!! I’m going to get some sleep, and try not to read this thread next time…er wait a minute, on the other hand………the me in a paralell reality may infulence me to change my mind………….
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1.21 Jiga-watts unregistered posted 25 October 2000 16:05
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Let’s get away from traveling to the past for a moment. Let’s look at what was made popular in Back to the Future pt 2, where Marty sees his son, or his girlfriend sees herself.
It cannot happen!
If you left time, you would be considered ‘missing’, or dead. The truth is, you don’t exist from the point in which you lept forward in time. You therefore cannot see yourself, or your son, because you stopped existing at that point in the past where you left.
Is this a proper paradox? Is there any reasoning I am missing that says you can see your future self?
Look forward to responses.
1.21 Jiga-watts
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NoTime unregistered posted 25 October 2000 16:32
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True. If you leave this time, you will not be here until you return. But, if you are alive in the future as you were alive in the past, then you could visit yourself because you are there. Your present self is different from your past or future self. This definitely applies to the past because you know you lived in the past and if you can go there, then you can visit yourself.
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Crono Member posted 25 October 2000 17:52
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I think there is two ways to look at this Jiga Watts. The first one is where you can actually change the past so it effects the future. If you were presumed dead in the future, then you could go back to the time right after you left and nothing would have been changed. However if you leave again, it will just be the same as before.
The second one is where you can’t change the past, and you’ll only be creating a parallel universe. What used to be your future is now your present, and since what used to be your present is now your past, you can’t change the past, so you’ll still be presumed dead at when you left off. And so you can still go back in the past and live there as usual, you won’t be changing the future.
I think that’s how those theories go.
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Paul Member posted 26 October 2000 06:27
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It is very interesting what would happen if you left the present and reached the future. In The Time Machine the time travelers asks about himself and people claim he went missing when he left on his journey through time.
It seems like an BTTF2 Marty was taken away in 1985 so his kids and everything couldn’t exist in 2015…
But the existence of his kids might just be evidence that they will later return to 1985 to do all those things! This would imply that everything they are going to do have already been decided!
It became clear the the future is NOT set as Doc claimed the future hasn’t been written yet. So how could they travel into what does not exist? Even when Marty went to 1955 he must have been from the future from some people’s point of view?
The future they traveled to might just have been one possible future! In the quantum many worlds theory there are an infinite amount of futures where every possibility occurs…
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Paul Curran
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Cocurious unregistered posted 26 October 2000 08:16
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In response to 1.21 jiga-watts. If you go into the future and see yourself, then by rights you will succeed in whatever you are doing in the future, and make it back to the present. If you don’t see yourself, then one could assume that you never made it back to your own time in the present.
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NoTime unregistered posted 26 October 2000 13:22
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In some probabilities, you traveled to the future and made it back, in others you did not make it back. In some probabilities you are alive in a future time and in others you are not alive. A multiverse contains all possibilities and all combinations of possibilities.
If you can travel to the future, you can meet a future self or not, depending on which probable future you go to.
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NoTime unregistered posted 26 October 2000 13:27
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…also, in a multiverse containing all possibilities, you can’t change anything because whatever changes you try to make are already there as one of the possibilities.
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1.21 Jiga-Watts unregistered posted 30 October 2000 09:53
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Thank you all for your responses. It’s a fascinating discussion, to be sure, and one that seemingly has endless possibilities.
I’m pretty set on the paradox I raised, however. It just doesn’t seem possible that you can see your future self.
I’ll check in every now and then. Continue in your hypothesizing!
1.21 Jiga-Watts
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OK. Here’s where John Titor popped in to join in the discussion…
TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 02 November 2000 01:16
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Wow! Paul is right on the money. I was just about to give up hope on anyone knowing who Tipler or Kerr was on this world-line.
By the way, #2 is the correct answer and the basics for time travel start at CERN in about a year and end in 2034 with the first “time machine” built by GE.
Too bad we can’t post pictures or I’d show it to you.
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No Problem!!…….”Wherever you go, there you are, and I’ll be waiting.”
p)’i4q4
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[This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 19 November 2000).]
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Pamela Member posted 02 November 2000 05:48
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TimeTravel_0-
Guess what? You can put pictures on Doc’s board… we would like to see it.
here is the URL: http://pub2.ezboard.com/bmagisystems
Im sure he would be more than happy to post the picture for you. He is the moderator for the montauk section on this web site.
Look forward to seeing your picture!
thanks,
pamela
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 02 November 2000).]
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 02 November 2000 08:55
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Is there a site where I don’t need to register personal information to post pictures?
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Pamela Member posted 02 November 2000 12:26
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Time travel_0-
I am registered on Doc’s site.
you can send it to me and I will post it for you.and if you want you can always set up a new e-mail account and only use it once.
There may be a site where you could post the picture with no info but I personally don’t know of any. because of what people would put up with no accountability.
any other info you give will remain confidential . besides your IP address is already logged on this forum when you post. I’ll help you out if you want. or you could just e-mail Doc yourself I'm sure he would put it up for you without registering. just explain the situation to him. I feel he is very trustworthy. Actually he posted someone else's picture anonymously that claimed he built a time machine. his name was “director”. that's it.
sincerely,
pamela
pamela2@raex.com
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Dymenzionz Moderator posted 02 November 2000 14:53
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What the Hell’s a jiga-watt?
(gigawatt)
🙂
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 02 November 2000 18:27
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I’ll be happy to send them to you and answer any questions you may have.
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Pamela Member posted 02 November 2000 19:09
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Time Travel_0- “confirming”.
Dymenzionz- HI!!!!! Good to see ya back!
sincerely,
pamela
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Pamela Member posted 04 November 2000 05:24
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TimeTravel_0-
your pictures are posted as promised and can be found here:
http://pub2.ezboard.com/bmagisystems
click on the topic- timelords anonymous
and it is titled: anonymous gravity/time device pictures.
sincerely,
pamela
THANKS DOC!
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 04 November 2000).]
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Pamela Member posted 05 November 2000 03:29
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Questions for timetravel_0 with permission to post.
Pamela:
by the way can you tell me what it feels like to time travel? when you are in the process of doing it what does it feel like and what do you see and hear. you made mention that you had to get use to the fields. Do you see a bright flash of light?
Timetravel_0:Interesting first question. The unit has a ramp up time after the destination coordinates are fed into the computers. An audible alarm and a small light start a short countdown at which point you should be secured in a seat.
The gravity field generated by the unit overtakes you very quickly.
You feel a tug toward the unit similar to rising quickly in an elevator and it continues to rise based on the power setting the unit is working under. At 100% power, the constant pull of gravity can be as high as 2 Gs or more depending on how close you are to the unit. There are no serious side effects but I try to avoid eating before a flight.
No bright flash of light is seen.
Outside, the vehicle appears to accelerate as the light is bent around it. We have to wear sunglasses or close our eyes as this happens due to a short burst of ultraviolet radiation. Personally I think it looks like your driving under a rainbow.
After that, it appears to fade to black and remains totally black until the unit is turned off.
We are advised to keep the windows closed as a great deal of heat builds up outside the car. The gravity field also traps a small air pocket around the car that acts as your only O2 supply unless you bring compressed air with you. This pocket will only last for a short period and a carbon sensor tells us when it’s too dangerous.
The C204 unit is accurate from 50 to 60 years a jump and travels at about 10 years an hour at 100% power.
You do hear a slight hum as the unit operates and when the power changes or the unit turns off. There is a great deal of electrical crackling noise from static electricity.Pamela:
1. what are some of your memories of 2036?
Timetravel_0:I remember 2036 very clearly. It is difficult to describe 2036 in detail without spending a great deal of time explaining why things are so different.
In 2036, I live in central Florida with my family and I’m currently stationed at an Army base in Tampa. A world war in 2015 killed nearly three billion people. The people that survived grew closer together.
Life is centered around the family and then the community. I can not imagine living even a few hundred miles away from my parents. There is no large industrial complex creating masses of useless food and recreational items. Food and livestock is grown and sold locally. People spend much more time reading and talking together face to face.
Religion is taken seriously and everyone can multiple and divide in the heads.Pamela:
2. can you send me more of the manual?
Timetravel_0:I will considering it but I do not expect they are worth anything to most people except as a curiosity.Pamela:
3.what would happen if you would meet yourself on another world line?
Timetravel_0:It has always surprised me why that concept is so hard for people to imagine and accept. Nothing would happen.
The universe would not end and there are no paradox problems that threaten existence.
Temporal space-time is made up of every possible quantum state. The Everett Wheeler model is correct.
I have met and/or seen myself twice on different world lines. The first was a training mission and the second is now. I was born in 1998 so the other “me” is 2 on this world line.
There is a saying where I come from….Every possible thing that can happen or will happen has already happened somewhere.Pamela:
4.How is this world line different from your own?
Timetravel_0:For starters….the fact that I’m here makes it different.
I’ve also noticed little things like news events that happen at different times, football games won by other teams…things like that.
I would guess the temporal divergence between this world line and my original is about 1 or 2 percent. Of course, the longer I am here, the larger that divergence becomes from my point of view.[You start with 1-2% divergence, and stay for three years, are involved in Y2K, and post on an Internet chat forum or TWO. Yeah, you will really cause some divergences. You can bet on it. - Metallicman]Pamela:
5.Is the vehicle a jeep?
Timetravel_0:No…its a 1967 Chevrolet..Pamela:
6.Are you having normal dreams right now? any out of body experiences? drawing you to different times? Do you dream you wake up in other places and other times?
TimeTravel_0:No strange dreams or other experiences. Everything is pretty much the way I expected it.Pamela:
7.are you able to control where you go or is it random?
Timetravel_0:Yes, it can be controlled. However, the distortion unit has operational limits.
Imagine your path through time is through a cone. The farther away from the center of the cone, the more differences you will see in the world line.
The C204 begins to “break away” at about 60 years. This means the level of confidence drops rapidly after 60 years of travel and the world line divergence increases.
In other words, if I wanted to go back 2000 years and meet Christ, there is a better than average chance I would end up on a world line where he was never born.
The computer units and gravity sensors “record” your trip and you are quite easily able to return to your point of origin. I am aware that research is being done on faster units with more accurate clocks. I imagine that they will be able to go back farther with a higher degree of divergence confidence.Pamela: 8.
are you feeling drawn back to your own time or are you stable in this world?
Timetravel_0:I’m not sure what you mean by stable. If you mean mentally…there are many things that bother me here but being with my parents right now is important to me. Physically, the only thing really wrong is the number of colds I get.Pamela:
9.Are you able to go back to your own world line?
Timetravel_0:Yes.Pamela:
10.how are you protecting yourself from radiation? it alters DNA if you dont.
Timetravel_0:I’m not sure what radiation you mean. If you mean from the unit, you can see it vents X-rays and Gamma radiation out of the rear. As long as you stay away from that, you should be okay. I keep a radiation detector with me to check my environment and make sure the unit isn’t “leaking”.Pamela:
11.How long would you say that ultraviolet radiation lasts? about 10 seconds? and when you are in that light can you see anything around you or does the light kind of “fill up” everything and that is all you can see at then time?
Timetravel_0:The light bending only lasts a second. Its like driving under a tunnel and being in total black.Pamela:
12.Do your people know where you are right now? Can you communicate with them? do you have a biological implant?
Timetravel_0:No. They do not know where I am and I can not communicate with them.
Interesting idea though. From their point of view, I will return almost exactly at the same moment I left. From their viewpoint, I will only have aged more than expected.Pamela:
13. after the flash of light is gone are you then in another time? What does it look like as the new time unfolds? Is it just there? or does it slowly come into view? does it fade in and out for a time?
Timetravel_0:While the machine is on. Everything is black. When the machine is turned off, it is the reverse affect. It appears you are driving out from a bridge. To tell you the truth, I’m usually sleeping when the unit turns off but yes…it does appear that the world fades in from black.Pamela:
14. what happens if the device messes up? Do you end up in space? if it goes offline and shifts ? does a hole open elsewhere?
Timetravel_0:Good question!!! That one almost never comes up.
The hard part of traveling through time is not the bending of gravity but the plotting of your course and holding to the basic “position” in your environment.
This is done through a system called VGL (variable gravity lock).
Basically, the unit takes a reading of the local gravity and samples it during the “trip” in pulses. If the gravity is too far off, the unit stops or reverses itself to the last sample period where the readings were correct.
If there is some sort of failure, the unit shuts down and drops out to where ever you may be.Pamela:
15. what affects are caused on the immediate area where the gravity has been distorted after you leave it and when you arrive? are there permanent effects left on the land such as electromagnetic disturbances in that area?
Timetravel_0:Another good question!!! The only real physical trace is a large chunk of ground missing from the point of origin and a large pile of dirt at the destination. The gravity field surrounds a small portion of the earth under you and takes it along for the ride. There is really no way around this.
Please feel free to post these if you wish.
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Shadow unregistered posted 05 November 2000 20:08
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Pam, did you ask about going forward in time? Do you need an invite from a future traveler? Where did MR. 0 get the ’67 chevy?
Bringing chunks of ground along with you as you casually rewrite the history of entire worlds? I guess that's why Docs’ Delorian was fitted with levitation equipment, to make a fast get away from angry property owners having to fill and grade every time he time jumps.
TimeLine 2015; STOP THE PRESSES!! 3 Billion Killed!!! Oh the presses are already stopped? Now if he time traveled *before* the planet was pulverized it would be a bit more believable.
Does Mr. 0 work for GE? Maybe he owns some GE stock. Speaking of stocks we could all use a hot tip from the guy that already knows who’s going to be the next Cisco, Coke or Microsoft.
Most importantly why would Mr. 0 want to talk the likes of us?
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Draco2 unregistered posted 06 November 2000 08:59
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Hey TIMETRAVEL_0!!
That’s a very interesting experience you are describing!! I have one question for you, and that is in regards to the climactic of the earth in 2034, had the polar ice caps melted, as they are now doing at an accelerated rate in this current time.
[This poster is asking about Global Warming. - Metallicman.]
Sincerely, Draco
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 06 November 2000 09:04
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In response to Shadow:
Perhaps it’s a bit easier to understand why time travelers do not revel themselves.
Yes, you can travel forward in time. No, you do not need an “invite” from the future. I first saw the car in 2036. The idea was to find a vehicle that would not draw too much attention for the time period. Unfortunately, there were not very many suitable vehicles around in 2036 and I sold the car when I arrived in 2000.
You do not rewrite history.
I can only affect what happens here just as easily as you can. Why do people in this time period worry so much about time traveler’s destroying their world line when they have no problem doing it themselves every day?
My goal is not to be believed.
Most people do not take news of the war very well but I find that everyone believes it’s inevitable. Even in your own history, are not great inventions and discoveries made during a time of war in your effort to kill and main in new and more efficient ways?
No, I do not work for GE or any other company.
Are “stock tips” really the first thing you want to know about in the future? As a representative of your time period, do you realize what that says about you? You should probably know that this time is not remembered for its selflessness, charity or ability to work together.
Why would I want to talk to you?
Why don’t you believe you have something interesting or worthwhile to say to someone in the future?
Mr. “O”
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 06 November 2000 09:08
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To Draco:
No, the ice caps are not melting any faster than they are now. There is also far less smog and industrial waste in 2036.
[In his home world-line, there is no evidence for Global Warming. - Metallicman.]
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Draco2 unregistered posted 06 November 2000 10:28
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Hey TimeTravel_0!!!
So then what you’re saying is that our current computer models are wrong about Glacial and Polar Ice Cap melting, even though they are going by our current emissions rate and projected emissions of the growth of fossil fuels consumption??
While Global Warming is factually happening and even if we stopped burning fossil fuels today and stopped destroying the rain forests today, the impact that is already altered our planetary climate would not stop today as the ball is already rolling.
The toxins in the ozone layer and the earths lessening inability to create oxygen, due to the catastrophic daily destruction of the rain forests that give us most of our oxygen, would take longer than beyond the year 2036 to repair itself, even with our help.
I find it amazing that if you throw a WWIII into the equation, one devastating enough to cause the death of 3 Billion people, would not add to the acceleration of Global Warming and raise the sea level to the point where in 2036 most of Florida will be underwater. Help me understand what reversed this impending climatic catastrophe..
Sincerely, Draco
[This poster has fully bought into the Global Warming hoax. He laid out his concerns and reasoning. He is asking for an elaboration on the answer from John Titor. - Metallicman.]
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Janus Member posted 06 November 2000 14:01
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Ok, Mr. 0 . First things: you have to realize that people will be hostile toward you when you make such a big claim. What reason have we to believe you? But, enough thought experiments occur here anyways, so…
I don’t think any era in history has been particularly noted for its compassion or selflessness. Why should we be any different?
Ok, so why not give us stock tips? You said you weren’t worried about polluting the timeline, right?
As for rewriting history, the normal objection is causality. But, if you use multiple-universe theory, then it’s all good. My question is, how do you get back to your proper universe – you said you’re very close to your family – how come another jump wouldn’t just send you into some third, different universe?
And, finally: what happens if you go back in time to a time when, right where you were standing, there was a giant cement block? Do you just appear inside of it and die? Or do you get pushed away?
Thanks,
Janus.
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 06 November 2000 16:43
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To Draco:
You asked about the North Polar ice pack. I never said the environment wasn’t a problem. Doesn’t water expand when it freezes? If the polar ice cap melted, wouldn’t sea level go down? I don’t know if there’s enough ice for this to make a difference and I’m not an expert on global warming.
Mr. “0”
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 06 November 2000 17:26
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To Janus:
Yes, I realize people become hostile. I don’t expect anyone to believe me and I have nothing to sell. I take no offense by it. Just out of curiosity, if you were a time traveler, what do you think it would take to get people to believe you?
I suppose we could agree that no particular era in history is famous for its development of humanity but just once I would like to hear questions like,
What is family life like in the future?
How does society deal with poverty?
Is AIDS, abortion and drug use still a problem?
Why don’t I give you a stock tip? The money you make would dilute the intelligence and forethought that a smart person had in picking the stock all by themselves. If I told you how to get rich, I would be taking money from them and giving it to you.
Getting back to my “proper” universe is tricky but possible. Yes, another jump would take me to a different family.
Cement block…good question. The hard part of traveling to other world lines is just that. There is a system of clocks and gravity sensors that sample the environment before dropping out. Its called VGL, (variable gravity lock). If a cement block were there, the machine would “backtrack” until it sensed relative congruity to the original gravity sample. A great deal of time and effort goes into picking just the right spot since you can not physically move during a displacement.
Mr. “0”
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Pamela Member posted 06 November 2000 22:13
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posted with permission:
TimeTravel_0-Greetings:
Please keep in mind a couple of points as I answer your questions. First, I am not a physicist. “Time travel” is only a tool that allowed me to do my job 1975. Most airline pilots are probably not aerospace engineers.
Second, let me give you an example of the position we are in. Imagine you live in the year 1900 and a “time traveler” attempts to explain how a jet engine works. Even though the invention of the airplane is only a decade in the future, he would have to find some frame of reference to explain the basics of flight. Then, he would have to outline the mechanics of how the engine works. As amazing as it would sound, the jet would be invented about thirty years later.Pamela:
1. can you explain to me in detail the basic physics and mathematics behind how the machine operates? and exactly how it distorts gravity.
Timetravel_0:1) Time travel is achieved by altering gravity.
This concept is already proven by atomic clock experiments. The closer an observer is to a gravity source (high mass), the slower time passes for them. Traveling at high speeds mimics this effect which = the twin paradox of faster than light travel. However, this type of gravity manipulation is not sufficient to alter your world line.
The basic math to alter world lines exists right now. Tipler first described a working “time machine” through his theory of massive rotating spheres. I apologize for the web site but it was the only one I could find quickly.
http://www.geocities.com:0080/Area51/Station/5763/time.html
Certain types of black holes also exhibit the “time travel” abilities of Tipler cylinders. Kerr was one of the first to describe the dual event horizons of a rotating black hole. As with Tipler’s cylinders, it was possible to travel on a “time-like” trip through a Kerr black hole and end up in a different world line without being squished by the gravity of the singularity.
http://www.physics.fsu.edu/courses/fall98/ast1002/section4/blackholes/fig11-13/fig11-132.htm
http://qso.lanl.gov/~bromley/nu_nofun.html
http://www.leonllo.freeservers.com/blackworm.html
http://www.astro.ku.dk/~cramer/RelViz/text/geom_web/node4.html
(deleted)……………………………………………….
The mass and gravitational field of a microsingularity can then be manipulated by “injecting” electrons onto its surface. By rotating two electric microsigularities at high speed, it is possible to create and modify a local gravity sinusoid that replicates the affects of a Kerr black hole.
For those asking how come a microsingularity doesn’t swallow the Earth or want to know details about the size, stability, mass, temperature and resulting Hawking radiation from such a thing.. those details I must keep to myself.Pamela:
2. can you travel to the future as well as the past? my understanding of the machine is the trip is recorded so you can get back to your original time line but what about a future beyond your time line are you able to access it as well? or does it have to be open by a future chrononaunt?
Timetravel_0:Yes, you can travel into the future and it takes less energy than going into the past.Pamela:
3.I don't see the computer in the device. is it the hand held device on the side of the larger device? If so what kind of power supply does the computer work off of is it the battery as well or some type of crystal?
Timetravel_0:The computer system is connected to the unit through an electrical bus. There are actually three computers linked together that take the same signals from the gravity sensors and clocks. They use a Borda error correcting protocol that checks the integrity of the data and trips the VGL system.Pamela:
4.Is your DNA remaining stable in this world or does it shift? does time traveling affect your body or aura or spirit in any way you know of?
timetravel_o:4) I am not aware of any physical change to my DNA or “aura”. I do however seem to be more susceptible to colds.Pamela:
5. when you go back to the future will we remember you?
Time travel_0:Yes, you will remember me if you want to. World lines do not change that way and I will only become a insignificant part of your history.
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 06 November 2000).]
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Fast Member posted 07 November 2000 15:42
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mm..General Electric built a time machine for the government?
or are time machines so common in the future that there makes and models are as commonly varied as our age’s car models..?
Fast Out
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 07 November 2000 17:18
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I would equate the “future” GM distortion units to their current jet engines. The first one worked great but they can always make it better.
The C204 unit uses 4 cesium clocks. The C206 uses 6 cesium clocks but they use an optical system to check the oscillation frequency. This makes the world line divergence confidence much higher.
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Shadow unregistered posted 07 November 2000 21:01
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Time Traveler-0
If you could bring some material thing back to your time in 2036 what would it be?
Could I travel to a future that was, say 0.5 seconds ahead of now? In the same vein, if you just happened to arrive at “the year 2000″ a fraction of a second in my past, or future would I ever know that you just ‘landed soon by”? In other words, what makes this time line be ‘now’ at any given moment versus being any other time. We exist as A point on a time LINE, what is it that defines that point?
As far as how wonderful your people are in the time after the war I’m very happy for you. Maybe they succeeded in wiping out the RIGHT 3 billion people. Something that could not be done with the nuclear sledge hammer. Perhaps the enemy released a killer virus that zeros in on only those who carried the Idiot gene?
2036 is not impossibly far off, what is your street address then? I’ll stop in and swap tales from days of old…assuming I live that long.
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Pamela Member posted 07 November 2000 21:23
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what will the year 2036 be like?
pamela:
1.I will ask you about your environment then and I want to know about the family life and also about your religion. what religion has survived? Do you believe in Jesus Christ or someone else. Do people still pray to God? Do you still have churches?
timetravel_0:Yes I believe in Jesus Christ and we pray to God in churches. There are some differences you may be interested in. Religion is a major part of peoples life in 2036. Pain and change tend to bring people together and closer to God. However, religion is far more personal than it is now.
There are no huge, centralized religions and people talk openly about their beliefs. It might also interest you to know that the day of worship is Saturday, the day God meant to be the Sabbath and the 10 commandments have been restored to the “10” that God gave us.pamela:
2. what kind of jobs do people do and do they still work long hours? whats the majority of job types in the future?
timetravel_0:
Life is much more rural in the future but “high” technology is used to communicate and travel. People raise a great deal of their own food and do more “farm” work.
Yes, compared to now, we do work long hours. After the war, my father made a living selling oranges up and down the West coast of Florida. My closest friend raises horses and another works for a company that maintains “wireless” internet nodes.pamela:
3.what is a typical day like for someone in your time? do you still have the internet? has it advanced to all virtual reality yet? what type of diseases are you currently dealing with? are there still advances in science?
timetravel_0:
A typical day…hmmm. Life has changed so much over my lifetime that it’s hard to pin down a “normal” day. When I was 13, I was a soldier. As a teenager, I helped my dad haul cargo. I went to college when I was 31 and I was recruited to “time travel” shortly after that. Again…I suppose an average day in 2036 is like an average day on the farm.pamela:
4.Is there still a post office? how do you receive messages from one another? you said most people talk face to face.
timetravel-0:Yes…there is a post office. The internet is still alive and well in the future. People spend more time talking because life is more centered around the community. I’ve noticed the same type of effect here when the power goes off. People tend to come out of their homes and actually spend time with their neighbors. There is a lot more personal trust and less paranoia.pamela:
5.what type of housing do you live in?
timetravel_0:
When I’m with my parents, I live in a community made up of “tree houses” on a large river in Florida. The river floods sometimes and we have access to the Gulf. Most of our neighbors make a living off the sea or in moving cargo by boat.
pamela:
6.what started the war? and who fought in it? who won?what countries were destroyed and what survived?
timetravel_0:
Wow…that’s a big question.
There is a civil war in the United States that starts in 2005. That conflict flares up and down for 10 years.
In 2015, Russia launches a nuclear strike against the major cities in the United States (which is the “other side” of the civil war from my perspective), China and Europe.
The United States counter attacks.
The US cities are destroyed along with the AFE (American Federal Empire)…thus we (in the country) won. The European Union and China were also destroyed.
Russia is now our largest trading partner and the Capitol of the US was moved to Omaha Nebraska.pamela:
7.did you ever discover what aliens were and ufos?
timetravel_0:
No new information there. I find that an interesting subject myself. Personally, I think “UFOs” might be time travelers with very sophisticated distortion units. But that might be a bit wacky.pamela:
8. what type of environmental problems do you know of that exist? do you have pure water to drink? are you mostly vegetarian-seems how most people are going that way today.
timetravel_0:
One of the biggest reasons why food production is localized is because the environment is so screwed up with disease and radiation. We are making huge strides in getting it cleaned up. Water is produced on a community level and we do eat meat..that we raise ourselves.
pamela:
9. are they still messing around with genetics? and altering the food and animals?
timetravel_0:
Yes…genetic engineering is used but it’s like any other technology. It can be good and bad. One thing we did not do was create more hybrid seeds. What are people thinking???pamela:
10.what do you believe about life after death?
timetravel_0:
I am a Christian Agnostic. I do not believe faith alone is enough to get us back to God. I’m not sure what happens when we die but I’m pretty sure it’s not a walk in the park.pamela:
11. do you have an advances in spacetravel or exploration?
timetravel_0:
No. We are working on it.
pamela:
12. what new inventions do we have to look forward to?
timetravel_0:
Hmmm….I hesitate to answer but I’ll give a bit. Hydrogen fuel cells and more efficient solar cells are big deals. Computer technology and software gets MUCH better.pamela:
13. what brings you the greatest joy on Earth? what are some things you and others do for entertainment and fun?
timetravel_0:
I like this question. My greatest joy is sailing. For fun, I enjoy swimming, playing cards, reading, playing games on the net and talking with people who live in other countries. As a community, we celebrate much more and have bon fires and dances. My hobby is sorting through old magazines and videos of life before the war.
pamela:
14. what are your schools and universities like?
timetravel_0:
After the war, early new communities gathered around the current universities. That’s where the libraries were. I went to school at Fort UF which is now called the University of Florida. Not too much is different except the military is large part of people’s life and we spend a great deal of time in the fields and farms at the “University” or Fort.pamela:
15. what are some of your fondest memories growing up? what kind of cameras do you have now to take pictures of the family? did they ever invent a hologram camera?
timetravel_0:
Most of my memories growing up are not fond. Life was very hard. Simple things make me happy like hugging my mother and father. Yes, we have cameras. More digital. Film is used like painting is today. No hologram camera though.pamela:
16. do you still have telephones? what is your major source of energy that you use? solar power? electricity? have you discovered new energies.
timetravel_0:
Yes we have phones but the service is through the web. Most power generation is localized. It amazes me how much power is wasted now. Yes, solar is big. There is thought that a singularity generator could also be used but most people are against it.[Another John Titor PREDICTION. - Metallicman.]pamela:
17. how do you take care of your elderly? and your poor and your orphans? and the ones who cannot work?
timetravel_0:
The elderly are highly revered and looked after on a community level. So are orphans. There is always something people can do now matter what. The idea of avoiding work is looked down on. Everyone pulls together to keep the COMMUNITY strong.pamela:
18. what is the dress style of the time what do you wear on your bodies as a style?
timetravel_0:
Hats are more common in the future and flashy colors are less common. Dress is much more functional and we “dress up” when ever we get a chance. I have noticed that no one in this time dresses for occasions even when they have the clothes. Why do people wear shorts to church?pamela:
19. do people wear their hair differently than we do?every generation has a different style what is the style of your time? what is popular for kids to wear? for adults to wear?
timetravel-0:We do not spend nearly the amount of time on our hair as people do now. Women like to wear their hair longer and men have it much shorter. Both sexes shave it all off when they’re in active military service.pamela:
20. are surgeries mostly performed by lasers? or were there new technologies developed?
timetravel_o:
Far less medical treatment in the future even though its more advanced. People die when they now its time to die. No lasers. Genetic medicine and cloning organs are the obvious new techs in the future.pamela:
21. do you still have the current form of government, presidents and vice presidents like we do?
timetravel_0:No. The Constitution was changed after the war. We have 5 presidents that are voted in and out on different term periods. The vice president is the president of the senate and they are voted separately.pamela:
22. how do you get from one place to another with not many cars around.do you teleport from one place to another?
timetravel_0:
We have cars…just not a whole bunch of them. There is public transportation from city to city.
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 07 November 2000 22:18
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If I could bring some material thing back to your time from 2036…it would be a copy of the new US Constitution.
Yes, you could travel to a future that was 0.5 seconds ahead of now but not with my machine. The C204 uses the second as the basic unit of measure. The C206 may be capable of .05 sec.(In the same vien, if you just happened to arrive at “the year 2000″ a fraction of a second in my past, or future would I ever know that you just ‘landed soonby”?)No “you” would not. But the “you” on that world line would.(In other words, what makes this time line be ‘now’ at any given moment versus being any other time. We exist as A point on a time LINE, what is it that defines that point?)It is believed there are some sort of measurable quantum differences in world lines. I am not an expert on that so I can offer little information.(As far as how wonderful your people are in the time after the war I’m very happy for you. Maybe they succeeded in wiping out the RIGHT 3billion people.)Yes, we did.(2036 is not impossibly far off, what is your street address then? I’ll stop in and swap tales from days of old…assuming I live that long.)You would be welcome in my home.
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Pamela Member posted 08 November 2000 11:47
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Timetravel_0-
1.Without going into detail what you are here specifically for can you please explain what the primary purpose of time travel is in the future?
2.Why it is used and how often to your knowledge it is used.?
3.Are there specific time periods time .travelers go to most?
4.you stated there were several time machines available are they all active at this time to your knowledge?
5.What kind of car are you going to go back in since you sold the Chevy?
6.Are you able to take people with you in the same car back to your time or another time?
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 08 November 2000 22:27
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(1.Without going into detail what you are here specifically for can you please explain what the primary purpose of time travel is in the future?)
In 2036, a great deal of effort is going into “repairing” our environment. I was sent to 1975 to get a computer system and take it back to 2036. Time travel is not a secret in 2036 and I expect it will become more common.
(2.Why it is used and how often to your knowledge it is used.?)
Right now, its used to get information or “items” that would be helpful in getting a post WWIII world back to a normal condition. There are 7 other time travelers in my unit.
(3.Are there specific time periods time .travelers go to most?)
Right now, most of our practical missions are from 1960 to 1980. There is a great deal of research into later and future periods but the farther you go, the lower the divergence confidence of the world line.
(4.you stated there were several time machines available are they all active at this time to your knowledge?)
Yes.
(5.What kind of car are you going to go back in since you sold the Chevy?)
It’s a 1987 4WD. The vehicle needs a strong suspension system to handle the weight of the distortion unit.
(6.Are you able to take people with you in the same car back to your time or another time?)
Yes.
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Curious unregistered posted 09 November 2000 12:41
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Timetravel_0, I have a couple of tech questions. If you change “vehicle” do you have to re-calibrate the unit? (Does mass effect the field strength or power level needed to travel?) What kind of coils are used to contain, and maintain the singularity? (tri-coil, or quadrature coil, etc.) Can your unit also dimensionally travel? (can it move laterally in time as well as forward/reverse)
Curious
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Shadow unregistered posted 09 November 2000 09:35
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To TimeTravel_0
Have you seen the movies ‘Terminator’ and ‘Terminator 2’? We have a lot of good movies in this time but it is hard to pick them out from the huge piles of “trash movies”.
Movies are contemporary liturature.
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Shadow unregistered posted 09 November 2000 11:01
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TT_0,
If your conveyence is accurate to one second then you must have a reason for picking the particular second or at least particular day or week, you did.
Let me guess, you are here NOW to look at the unusual hung election we have going on. Or maybe this is the trigger event in the coming world wide economic meltdown? Some other pivot point in history? Fess up. Why now?
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Fast Member posted 11 November 2000 12:34
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TT0-
if you journeyed here from 2036(i think) to get a computer system,why is it you are posting on a time travel message board information as to how you arrived here?
treason!
a VW Bus would make a fine time machine
Fast Out
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Got light? Make matter.
pamela2@raex.com
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Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged
Pamela
Moderator
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to TT0:
“–The C204 unit is accurate from 50 to 60 years a jump and travels at about 10 years an hour at 100% power. –” 10 years an hour?
from 2036 wouldnt that take three+ hours??
how could you survive with merely the pocket of air you caught in your vehicle’s field??
Fast Out
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 11 November 2000 18:46
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To Curious:
(If you change “vehicle” do you have to re-calibrate the unit?)
Yes. But its a function of the VGL system. A gravity baseline is taken and rechecked every time the unit is used. A new vehicle would alter the gravity signature.
(What kind of coils are used to contain, and maintain the singularity?)
I am not a physicist so I can not answer that to your level of sophistication. The singularities are held in an enclosed magnetic field.
(Can your unit also dimensionally travel?)
No. However, the longer the unit is on past a safe divergence confidence, the “stranger” the world line becomes. The unit I have is safe to about 1% for every sixty years at max power.[Which is why I often consider his "time machine" to be rather crude. It only senses gravitational deviations, and travels up and down similar time-lines.
True exploration of alternative world-lines is not that hard, once you have this basic level of technology. You can modulate the fields and inject various particles in various ways to achieve striking changes in destination world-line composition.
Not that I am an expert, but the variables enable the traveler to pick and choose, to a limited degree, certain aspects of the destination world-line. Such as technology level, cultural variations, population, and though specifically (pre-determined) manifestations. -Metallicman.]
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 11 November 2000 18:56
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TO Shadow:
(Have you seen the movies ‘Terminator’ and ‘Terminator 2’?)Yes. I’ve seen those movies. Very entertaining.(If your conveyance is accurate to one second then you must have a reason for picking the particular second or at least particular day or week, you did.)My goal was to reach a certain date and time which is converted into seconds for the computer to make its calculations. I do not pick the second. Its more important to have a low divergence confidence number.(Let me guess, you are here NOW to look at the unusual hung election we have going on. Or maybe this is the trigger event in the coming world wide economic meltdown? Some other pivot point in history? Fess up. Why now?)I would use the word “elections” a bit cautiously. Perhaps its easier now to see a civil war in your future?[From John Titor's point of view, a civil war is brewing.
Also, he seemingly has some strong views on what constitutes an "election". It makes me suspect that elections aren't really what they seem to be. Eh? -Metallicman.]
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 11 November 2000 19:07
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To Fast:
(if you journeyed here from 2036(i think) to get a computer system,why is it you are posting on a time travel message board information as to how you arrived here? treason!)Why would it be treason?
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 11 November 2000 19:11
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To Fast Out:
(10 years an hour? from 2036 wouldn't that take three+ hours?? how could you survive with merely the pocket of air you caught in your vehicle’s field??)Yes…that’s about right but my initial trip was to 1975, not 2000. I guess its a question of how many technical details you really want or you feel I’m making up. We do take additional 02 and the air pocket is a bit larger than you might think.
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Curious unregistered posted 11 November 2000 20:09
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Timetravel_O I am surprised they went with the VGL system over the “time lock” system. It must be more accurate as far as timeline devergance. No direct lateral travel huh? That means some places are not easily accessible.(there is a safe place to hide, LOL)
One last question, Can anybody operate the 204 unit? Or is it safe guarded by a “key of some kind? Thanks for answering. Yes, you would be welcome at my home.
Curious
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Fast Member posted 11 November 2000 20:28
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TT0:
the Chinese were said to threaten death by torture to those who gave away the secret of silk making…why not time travel also?
i now understand the oxygen part,thought i found a slip in your trip (to coin a phrase) to our (or 1975…) time…
why is it you traveled to 1975 anyway??
Fast Out
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Searcher of Truth unregistered posted 12 November 2000 13:22
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Time travel_0,
I followed the link to your pictures and if time travel is not a secret in your “time” then why do the top of your pictures say “restricted file”??
restricted file means LIMITED TO AUTHORIZED PERSONNEL ONLY.
Have you considered the possible adverse consequences the person might face that you had post them for you since you remain covert? or don’t you care since it is not your world-line. what about the people that read the information and attempt to build one? what if they get injured in the process because they are not knowledgeable enough to handle the forces they are playing with at this “time”.
what is your true purpose for posting assumingly “restricted” government documents on a public bulletin board where everyone can see it?
Did your Unit Commander authorize such a thing or is it something you decided to do completely on your own?
Have you considered your actions and probable outcome carefully?
-SOT
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Curious unregistered posted 12 November 2000 14:06
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To Seeker of Truth. The chances of one of us building a C204 are slim to none. (and Slim’s dead) Who’s to say that someone that will read this board, will be the one to actually invent the means for the C204 (or other units) to be operational? The divergence factor is so low, everybody will forget about this in a short time.
I wouldn’t worry about it When Timetravel_0 goes back, this will be nothing but a memory…
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 12 November 2000 16:41
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(Have you considered the possible adverse consequences the person might face that you had post them for you since you remain covert? or don’t you care since it is not your world-line. what about the people that read the information and attempt to build one? what if they get injured in the process because they are not knowledgeable enough to handle the forces they are playing with at this “time”.)
Yes, I have considered it but it is very easy to remain hidden behind a veil of disbelief.
The people who understand what they are seeing are not aggressive. Everyone else just finds them entertaining.
The obvious first answer is that the only world-line of consequence is my own and I don’t care what happens here. That however, is not the case. I have shown these documents in order that people might consider the possibility.
I do not expect people to believe them.
(what is your true purpose for posting assumingly “restricted” government documents on a public bulletin board where everyone can see it?)
The restricted nature of the documents I posted refers to the departmentalized nature of the technical information. The manual is supposed to remain with the unit. The current F-16 fighter jet probably has an operations manual. All the information in it is not secret but no one wants it to “walk” away from the plane.
(Did your Unit Commander authorize such a thing or is it something you decided to do completely on your own?)
I am here for personal reasons.
For a few months now, I have bee trying to alert anyone that would listen to the possibility of a civil war in the United States in 2005.
Does that seem more likely now? Actually it’s quite amazing to see what’s happening. I have been trying to get people to pay attention for the last few months but to see it unfold is very interesting. Before I leave, I’ll try and post my report.
I am curious… will anyone be upset if Florida’s votes are not counted in the Electoral College because of the current “confusion”?
(Have you considered your actions and probable outcome carefully?)
Yes.
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Curious unregistered posted 12 November 2000 17:22
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Timetravel_0, People have been “warned” of the upcoming events (or high probability of) for sometime. The date seems to move up and down the timeline a little, but the out come seems to be the same. Some of the “new age crackpots(?)” have already said this. A few have even given an estimate of when (some have been close to the year you stated). From what I understand, it is coinciding with a natural disaster (or cosmic event). I hope not be around then. Have a safe trip. Good luck.
Curious
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Pardon my intrusion on your post, I thought it would be more suitable to include the following information here, as it is synonymous with your post, and placing it at the end of this thread where the conversation has taken a different direction altogether would not be in sync with the current flow of thought.
p)’i4q4—————–
Flood forthcoming
Monday, November 27 2000 @ 03:26 AM EST
Contributed by: Porfiry
Global warming could be on the verge of triggering a rise in sea levels that would flood huge swathes of the Earth’s most densely populated regions, says an unpublished report from the world’s top climate scientists. Caused in large part by the melting of Greenland’s ice sheet, this process would take a thousand years or more but would be “irreversible” once under way.
The report, due to be published next May by the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), is being read by the world’s governments. The final draft seen by New Scientist suggests that dozens of the countries meeting this week to agree on global warming limits through the Kyoto Protocol may face being wiped off the world map.
Four years ago, the IPCC forecast that sea levels could rise by half a metre in this century and by a maximum of between 1.5 and 3 metres over the coming 500 years. The new assessment suggests an eventual rise of 7 to 13 metres is more likely. This is enough to drown immense areas of land and many major cities. These rises will occur even if governments succeed in halting global warming within the next few decades, the report says.
Two factors are causing the rise: the slow spread of heat to the ocean depths and the destabilising of major ice sheets. It will take about a thousand years for warming in the atmosphere to reach the bottom of the oceans. The resulting thermal expansion “would continue to raise sea levels for many centuries after stabilisation of greenhouse gas concentrations”. Even if global warming is halted within a century, thermal expansion will eventually raise the oceans by between 0.5 and 4 metres.
Even more alarming is the fate of the ice that covers Greenland. Among all of the world’s ice sheets, this is now thought to be “the most vulnerable to climatic warming”. It contains enough snow and ice to raise sea levels by about 7 metres if it melts. And this looks increasingly likely to happen.
Models show that after any warming above 2.7 °C, “the Greenland ice sheet eventually disappears”. Nearly all predictions show Greenland warming more than this, says the report, and the faster the warming, the faster the melting. An extra 5.5 °C would cause sea levels to rise by 3 metres over a thousand years. An 8 °C warming would cause a 6-metre rise in sea levels in the same time.
The report’s authors are not allowed to discuss their findings until publication. But Jonathan Gregory of Britain’s Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research in Bracknell, who co-authored the chapter on sea level, told New Scientist recently that once under way, the disintegration of the Greenland ice sheet would be “irreversible this side of a new ice age”.
The fate of the West Antarctic ice sheet, which is perched on submerged islands, remains controversial, says the report. If it melted, it would raise sea levels by a further 6 metres. Some experts quoted in the report predict that the sheet could entirely disappear within 700 years. Others, supported by the authors, expect that the sheet will contribute “no more than 3 metres” to sea level in that time.
If sea levels were 10 metres higher than today by the year 3000, it would cause the inundation of a total area larger than the US, with a population of more than a billion people and most of the world’s most fertile farmland.
Fred Pearce
From New Scientist magazine, 25 November 2000.
[This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 27 November 2000).]
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Pamela Member posted 12 November 2000 17:44
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TimeTravel_0-
is there some reason you are not responding to any of my e-mails lately?
I have deleted all of your e-mails from my computer to protect you. no one will ever know your e-mail address. that is my promise to you.
if your not going to reply to me can you just answer me one question….was that you I seen? or you can e-mail me if you still can.
sincerely,
pamela
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Pamela Member posted 12 November 2000 20:53
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timetravel_0-
1
your friend,
pamela
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daViper unregistered posted 13 November 2000 23:04
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Contrary to popular belief, and certain speculations here, the plain simple fact is, there ARE no paradoxes. There never have been and there never will be. The term itself is an oxymoron and an invention of the intellect of the human mind, in search of creative thought and outright fantasy. The Universe exists without either the need for, or possibility of them.
[He is correct. - Metallicman]
Once one comes to this simple realization, one can then put the concept of “Time Travel” in IT’S proper perspective. Namely, that as is usually thought of, it doesn’t exist. Never has, never will. For the simple reason that our invented concept of time itself is fundamentally flawed. Time is not an entity. It is a unit of measurement invented by man, to define the interval between cause and effect. Like Meter. Or Yard. Or Foot. Or pound. Can we “Meter” travel? or “Foot” travel? Or perhaps “Acre” travel? Gets silly doesn’t it. Why does anyone think you can actually “Time” travel?
[He is correct. - Metallicman]
Interesting that the so called “Twins Paradox” was not discussed in depth here, but then it’s really not a paradox at all. It is only beleived to BE one by people who do not understand the simple laws of physics and the Theory of relativity.
If anyone is interested, I can show you how it CANNOT be a paradox. Unless you already know. In which case you wouldn’t be here speculating on the “how” of something that doesn’t exist in the first place.
It isn’t that Time Travel is not possible, it’s that there is NO SUCH THING in the first place. Never has been. Never will be. Like the Gods of MT. Olympus. Or the Fire Breathing Dragons of old. And Pegasus. Or the Earth as the Center of the Universe. It’s mythology. Based on INNOCENT ignorance. It’s a skewed concept created by a lack of understanding of the fundamental Theories of relativity (General and Special), in the first place.
[He is correct. - Metallicman]
And it doesn’t require “Multiple” Universes to solve. If there are multiple universes, than there MUST be an INFINITE number of them. In which case, all things that have ever happened, will happen, are happening Now. If THAT’S the case, what makes anyone think they have anything resembling free will at all?
[He is correct. - Metallicman]
Alas, I’m afrid even THIS attempt to resolve the so called “paradoxes” of Time Travel is also a pursuit in search of what is a non-existant problem in the first place. Another lapse into inventing a new mythology.
[He is correct. - Metallicman]
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Shadow unregistered posted 13 November 2000 23:24
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TimeTravel_0
Checked out the picture and documents (Pamala?) posted. Your ’67 Chev looks remarkably new…….hmmmm
If the manual is legit and that's a real working time machine in your front seat, the OBVIOUS conclusion, if not the correct conclusion, is that you are either in the employ of the US Army or you stole the friggen thing. I hardly think you picked it up for 20 bucks at the surplus store.
Looks like you’ve got a little baby field model there, the owners of which would surely have bigger and badder ones to come and collect it with. But you would know all about that. What you might not know is that the people who actually run things around now, will snatch you right out of your shoes at the first possible instant they get wind of you and your ah……. thing.
The one thing that you are REALLY REALLY NOT supposed to do is show up with something that might be perceived to be “dangerous”. You had better hide real good or get lost, one.
Been nice ‘talking’ to ya. Why not just spill the *entire* pan of beans before you split? Anything to piss off the rich folks, I say.
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Janus Member posted 14 November 2000 15:25
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I hope ‘Mr. 0′ is still there…
I’d like to believe you. What I need is one more prediction – you’ve predicted an American civil war in 2005; in order to fully believe you, I need one more unambiguous prediction like that. Something like, maybe, who will win the 100m in Salt Lake City. Really, anything like that, if I see two predictions like that come true you will have my unwavering belief. I’m a rationalist but not an idiot – the problem with most people who claim to time travel is that they have no evidence to back it up. What I ask for would be enough evidence for me, and probably most people.
[This message has been edited by Janus (edited 14 November 2000).]
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 15 November 2000 13:56
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Mr. DaViper,
A broken clock tells the right time twice a day.
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 15 November 2000 14:12
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To: Shadow
If this shows up twice, I apologize.
(Your ’67 Chev looks remarkably new…….hmmmm)
Thanks. I sold it when I arrived here. It attracted a great deal of attention. Perhaps that’s why it was still around in 2036.
(…you are either in the employ of the US Army…)
More or less correct.
(Looks like you’ve got a little baby field model there, the owners of which would surely have bigger and badder ones to come and collect it with.)
Why would they come looking for me? I’m expected back but I will only have been gone a few seconds from their point of view.
(What you might not know is that the people who actually run things around now, will snatch you right out of your shoes at the first possible instant they get wind of you and your ah……. thing.)
Stupidity and greed are fairly predictable for a period of time.
(The one thing that you are REALLY REALLY NOT supposed to do is show up with something that might be percieved to be “dangerous”.)
Have you considered that your society might be better off if half of you were dead?
(Why not just spill the *entire* pan of beans before you split? Anything to piss off the rich folks, I say.)
I’m thinking about it. I’m waiting for my family to buy up all the good stuff cheap first…(joke).
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 15 November 2000 14:20
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To Janus:
(I’d like to believe you. What I need is one more prediction – you’ve predicted an American civil war in 2005; in order to fully believe you, I need one more unambiguous prediction like that.)
I appreciate the position you are in but you must realize that I am not affected in the least if you believe me or not.
(Something like, maybe, who will win the 100m in Salt Lake City.)
Off the top of your head, can you tell me if it rained in Atlanta this time last year? Do you think time travelers carry a sports reference with them?
In the movie “Back to the future II”, there is a scene where Marty goes tot he future and buys a sport’s almanac from an antique store to take back with him to the past.
(Really, anything like that, if I see two predictions like that come true you will have my unwavering belief.)
It is a mistake to give anyone your unwavering belief…but you will find that out yourself in 2005.
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 15 November 2000 14:33
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To: Curious
(One last question, Can anybody operate the 204 unit? Or is it safe guarded by a “key of some kind? Thanks for answering. Yes, you would be welcome at my home.)
The unit has two security systems to protect it from “most” people. One, it has a code that must be entered correctly. Second, and probably more effective now, the unit can not be used by anyone who can’t add and subtract.
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 15 November 2000 14:41
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To Fast:
(i now understand the oxygen part,thought i found a slip in your trip(to coin a phrase) to our(or 1975…) time… why is it you traveled to 1975 anyway??)
The first “leg” of my trip was from 2036 to 1975. After two VGL checks, the divergence was estimated at about 2.5% (from my 2036). I was “sent” to get an IBM computer system called the 5100. It was one the first portable computers made and it has the ability to read the older IBM programming languages in addition to APL and Basic. We need they system to “debug” various legacy computer programs in 2036. UNIX has a problem in 2038.
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Shadow unregistered posted 15 November 2000 20:29
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For totally selfish reasons I would like to know how one would communicate across time periods? Think of the grief one could save themselves by simply by calling yourself at 6AM from 6PM and getting the lowdown on the days pitfalls.
It is tough for me to visualize how, from our perspective, the future is frozen solid such that you could knock around here for a week or two and yet scarcely a blink of an eye has passed in 2036.
If you want to get peoples attention, it seemes to me that a pocket full of real US currency and coins dated 2001 and up would cause a stir.
Here is a nickel from 2067. I have been unable to find any strong information on to the lineage of this coin. I suspect that it is a fake, but who knows. Eh? A person with reasonable casting skills could make a reasonable copy out of lead or another metal. Photos would not be able to determine the difference.
It could be used as a standard test to see who is braindead and who can add 2+2.
You speak of 1 & 2 % “divergence” as being unimportant. I don’t get it. Like for example if OUR IBM5100 is 1% different than the code you have to run on it, it ain’t gonna work right. One percent in the FL vote count would be important. If I could see only 99% of the cars on the road it would be important to me. So, what exactly is X% divergent, and why is it not a major problem?
Janus is a Scientist. Don’t mess with him!
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Shadow unregistered posted 15 November 2000 21:39
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Oh, sorry Janus, forget I said that. I must have gotten your post mixed up with somebody eleses.
To TimeTravler_0
The trouble with having the “half the population dead” is that before the fact, one cannot tell to which half ones’ self belongs. The politics of who gets thrown out of the lifeboat and who gets to stay is not topic for polite conversation. So lets ask the question in the affirmative. ” What does one have to do in order to stay on the lifeboat?”
I don’t imagine you have much a fondness for the CJD (mad cow) prion. Any advise on how to defeat or avoid this plague?
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mokrie dela Member posted 16 November 2000 12:35
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_0 —Just popped in for a minute. If your on the level could you be so kind as to drop me off in 1880. No, I’m not kidding. If you pick up hitch hikers I’d really like a ride. Also, I’ve missed you Pamela and Time and the ever evasive Doc.
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Pamela Member posted 16 November 2000 12:43
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Mokrie!!!!!!!
{{{{{HUG}}}}}}
I missed you to. I was wondering what world you fell into ( heheheh.)
hey now…only so many of us can fit into the 4×4! I asked first! I get the front seat!!!! heheh.
Doc if you are out there somewhere you need to respond! we are worried about you. alot of people have written you and you have not responded. your friends care about you!
sincerely,
pamela
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daViper unregistered posted 16 November 2000 16:42
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Shadow:
There is only ever one “time period” to communicate in. This one. The “now”.
In the classic so called “twins paradox”, the two are always in the same time line.
Visualize the traveling twin doing this travel always in sight of Earth. Orbiting the Sun at near the speed of light. He is always visible from Earth via telescope and radio. Although there will be some doppler shifting in his image and radio signals, communication is nevertheless still possible.
Just difficult.
He is traveling for what seems to be his Earth bound twin’s span of 50 years. During his voyage, he ALSO counts the Earth rotating around the Sun 50 times! Yup. That’s the way it works. Yet when he finally lands back on Earth, he has aged only 5 years!
Relativity has slowed his BIOLOGICAL clock, relative to his twin. Not time itself. Just like it slows the atomic clock on the moving jet plane, relative to the one left on the ground. Gravity has little or nothing to do with it.
It is the difference in RELATIVE velocity that produces what gets measured as time dilation. The same is true for the twins. Actually, neither twin left the other’s time line. Both were always in the same one. Both counted 50 revolutions of the Earth around the Sun, but the travelers biological CLOCK ran slower. That’s all.
There is no paradox. And communication across “time periods” is only ever communication across the same time period.
Where I am now, it’s 11:30 AM. But in Japan, it’s 4:30 TOMORROW MORNING. But me and the Japanese are still in the same time line, time period (in the greater sense), and can communicate with each other just fine.
The past has gone by. The future hasn’t happened yet. And all the near light speed travel or power sources that alter matter can’t change that. It’s a rather fundamental law of the universe.
Even Einstein only ever said time running backwards during faster than light travel, MIGHT be possible. He NEVER said for sure that it was true or for certain WOULD occur. And even withdrew further and further from this original position as he got older.
In the pure scientific sense, we need to always be vigilant as to the difference in what constitutes hypothesis, and what constitutes theory.
Good science always tries to DISPROVE hypothesis. Not prove it. Failure to DIS-prove it is what then results in what becomes evolving theory. And still only theory at that.
Enjoy.
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Pamela Member posted 16 November 2000 23:33
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DaViper…biological clock ran slower?
Can you explain this concept further?
sincerely,
pamela
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 17 November 2000).]
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 17 November 2000 09:34
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It is thought that being close to a gravitational field has a biological effect on all matter including cells. The effect is to slow the movement of electrons in the orbits of their nucleus which thus slows the mechanical and bilological functions of the observer close to the gravity.
Thus the passing of time is a local phenomenon depending on how close you are to a gravitational source.
This is one example of a theory involving “time shells” progressing in size and intensity around a gravitational point from all matter. The more massive the object, the larger and more influencial the time shells around it (like an onion). Another offshoot of this theory is that kinetic energy is actually the conversion of stored energy in the atom as it passes through time shells in a gravitational field.
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Pamela Member posted 17 November 2000 12:01
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Time travel_0-
Would this serve a purpose to put cloned or donated organs in a field to keep it as fresh and un-aged as possible until ready to transplant into the new recipient patient?
In response to your last e-mail…
you never know what my future will hold.
maybe I’ll be visiting YOU. (maybe in one of those advanced distortion units.)
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Shadow unregistered posted 17 November 2000 19:12
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To daViper
Here’s the way I see it if I want to “foot travel or acre travel” or even frothing at the mouth mad dog banana split travel then I will just get on with it. I don’t need you to tell me I can’t. Heck if I want to pretend that I’m Superman and fly around the sun 50 times to save Lois Lane……..oh excuse me THAT ONE was YOUR idea.
We got a guy on here whom I believe to be an actual time traveler, somebody that knows about gravic shells. artificial singularities, computers and the history of the next 36 years. Somebody who has “been there done that” and I don’t really want to hear you spouting off about what you learned in 6th grade science class. I took the same class 35 years ago. Here is a news flash for you; Einstein was out of date 60 years ago.
You say there is no possibility of any time paradox ever occuring. How in heck would you know? Even if you are right on this one, its a lucky guess on your part. You don’t know. I don’t think you could think your way out of a paper bag.
You said that it is “tommorrow in Japan”. Does that mean that it is yesterday in Spain? Good grief, get a grip. If you would think a little more yourself, maybe you would be less inclined to tell everybody else how to do it.
I do advise however, that you could stick around and learn something.
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Pamela Member posted 17 November 2000 21:11
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Shadow,
I have to hand it to you that was funny! banana split travel…hehheh
your a good person I can tell.
I personally cannot understand why someone posts on a time-travel web site that does not believe time travel is or ever will be possible. but I'm glad they do because I do learn things from them.
I think it a little humorous….. although it would be foolish to believe everyone that says they are a time traveler that shows up on here, and we have actually disproved several fake attempts.
I believe if a real time traveler actually showed up… nobody would even believe them. there is only a couple of people on here who even asked this guy questions. even though this web site gets an average hit of about 98 people in a 12 hour period.
how could you ever come to the knowledge of the truth if you dont ask questions?
my question is….do we really believe time travel is possible or do we have to be one who experiences a little of it first before we will even consider it?
Is time travel ever going to be a possibility in our future? if the answer is yes but not for thousands of years… well if they travel back to our time then it now becomes a possibility in our time as well.
DaViper? why is it you have not attempted to Disprove why the diagrams could not work?
why have you not argued against the use of singularities? or why it could not be possible for him to be here? Is it because you don’t understand what it is you are seeing? I want to hear the arguments why nobody believes this could be a possibility …don't any of you people have an opinion?
In our current view of things The possibility of it not being true is pretty high for a time traveler to openly expose himself in this manner..but..what if in his world time travel is not a secret?
In relating to a time traveler from a future time may be like relating to an alien from another country,another dimension or even another world. you first have to understand the environment from which they came. depending on how far in the future it would be.. their thinking would not be the same on certain issues because of how they were raised in their environment.
I think it is as he has said though that some people would not believe it even if the machine was right in front of them.
Just consider for a moment…. what if it was true? what a great opportunity you have all lost.
sincerely,
pamela
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 18 November 2000).]
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Curious unregistered posted 17 November 2000 23:22
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My opinion is that there is a high probability that he (Timetravel_0) is as he has represented him self. And to add to that, what makes anybody so sure there hasn’t been others? How would you know? Do you think they will show you a time travel visa? It is sometimes amazing how great the human mind is able to except new ideas. The (energy field) diagram in the manual looks very similar to some diagrams that were purported to be from the Philadelphia Project. (from an Al Beilek video tape) Just my opinion, I could be wrong………..
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Dr Light unregistered posted 19 November 2000 06:15
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Now then..
If i go back to the year 1960 and give the scientist community there a book on advanced electronics in computers , would it not be that they would READ this book and design say, a pentium 3 chip in 1960 that would forward our technology advances 40 years?
if that is so how would this timeline be like? Would we have far better microproccessors here in 2000?
The materials needed to produce a chip like the P3 for example were available (to an extent) in 1960. So it would not be unheard of for me to jump back in time , give a book on microprocessors to IBM and see what they come up with…
A thought…
Did anyone witness the giant computer “boom” of the late 60’s? Computer technology went from basic 286 processors to great big polygon crunchers in the early 90’s. In the space a short 10 years microprocessor speeds have doubled every six months…
Technology is advancing at an incredible rate which leads me to think that perhaps we were visited by time-travelers in the 60’s or thereof, in order to further the advancement of the human race. How does one explain the massive technology jumps from the moon landing to our present time?
Seems to quick to go from a 286 to a 1 GHZ…
I think we had help , but that's my opinion.
Insights? Opinions?
Thank you.
Dr Light
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Fast Member posted 19 November 2000 19:35
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according to TT0,our technology would not change in the least..you would return you your original dimension and the book would (POSSIBLY) advance some other dimension’s technology…
[Actually, since there is no single "correct" world-line, and that all of our individual consciousnesses occupy our own very unique realities, then the thoughts of others on other world-lines will influence our world-line.
I call this the "reality template", or over-riding tends that most of our consciousnesses follow within a given time (a given state of entropy). - Metallicman.]
Fast Out
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Dr Light unregistered posted 20 November 2000 12:14
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But if the parallel worlds theory is true , that would make the book in question be relevant to ALL worlds including the one i just came from…
Therefore that would make technology jumps for all of the worlds, not just every dimension besides mine.
Perhaps it would evolve differently for my dimension but there is still the fact that it WOULD evolve because i went back and changed history for every world.
But….
that’s my opinion…
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Time02112 Member posted 20 November 2000 12:20
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I still say “Something” of a very peculiar High Strangeness did occur in Roswell in the forties, and whatever it was, it had something to contribute to our current Time-Line, which altered it indefinitely.
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Dr Light unregistered posted 20 November 2000 12:35
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A few words..
i just finished reading the whole two pages and i have come to this conclusion.
Pamela…your a champion…no really…and thank you for the links.
and Mr_0….good luck my friend…see you in 2036.
Light
Thanks you
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Dr light unregistered posted 20 November 2000 05:39
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You sold your 67′ when you got here?
how do you expect to get back?!
Also, how have you overcome the problem of housing , food , job ,social security number , tax…or perhaps you are not here for that long.
Also how did you get on the net and have access to a scanner to reproduce your work on the net?
So many questions and things to do in this time..yet you have the time to post your C204 manual on the web.
I am not trying to disprove you Mr _0, but the people in power (pamela) urges us to ask relevant questions surrounding your existence in this time. This world is run on the economical side of things and i am just curious to how you happened to blend in to “our” way of living.
The way i see it..is that you MAY be a T.Traveler judging by your grasp on quantum mechanics and your vivid picture of the future but……
This world is run on the basis of “guilty until proven innocent” Myself..i would like to believe and your diagrams and schematics seem to confirm this. BUT there are skeptics out there who might think your a loony as you have seen.
I myself believe in time travel and as the theory goes..” if , at any point in history we will be able to T.T , we are being visited by others right now , from the future.”
If it makes no matter that you are here telling us about your revolutionary new T.T device…what would happen if we SUPPOSEDLY built a prototype …as my argument would state about the P3 and the 286..we would fast forward events in time…..36 years or so , with the development of a prototype c204 right NOW , using the schematics you have given us.But as pamela said…”..don't any of you people have an opinion?”
I am not out to shatter your reputation on this forum.. but i just want simple answers.
Thank you
Dr Light
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 20 November 2000 17:16
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To: Dr. Light.
(You sold your 67′ when you got here? how do you expect to get back?!)
The unit is portable between vehicles. It is very heavy and requires a “stiff” suspension. The unit is currently in a 4WD.
(Also, how have you overcome the problem of housing , food , job ,social security number , tax…or perhaps you are not here for that long.)
I am currently living with my parents on this world line. They know exactly who I am and how I got here.
(Also how did you get on the net and have access to a scanner to reproduce your work on the net?)
There are numerous ways to do that. Any local printing shop allows you access to a computer system.
(So many questions and things to do in this time..yet you have the time to post your C204 manual on the web.)
What suggestions do you have?
(This world is run on the economical side of things and i am just curious to how you happened to blend in to “our” way of living.)
You don’t think you could blend into 1970? What difficulties would you expect to have that couldn’t be overcome?
(BUT there are skeptics out there who might think your a loony as you have seen.)
I have nothing to sell nor do I want anyone to believe in me or take some action. What other people think of me does not affect me in the least.
(If it makes no matter that you are here telling us about your revolutionary new T.T device…what would happen if we SUPPOSEDLY built a prototype …as my argument would state about the P3 and the 286..we would fast forward events in time…..36 years or so , with the development of a prototype c204 right NOW , using the schematics you have given us.But as pamela said…”..don't any of you people have an opinion?”)
What you do on your world line is your own business. I can’t think of any better way to start a war than for someone to figure out how to make a time machine. Go for it.
(I am not out to shatter your reputation on this forum.. but i just want simple answers.)
I will be happy to answer “almost” any question you have.
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Time02112 Member posted 20 November 2000 23:07
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TT_0
I STRONGLY urge you to contact me before you leave us! I must make contact with you before you go.
[This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 20 November 2000).]
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Got light? Make matter.
pamela2@raex.com
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Posts: 985 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged
Pamela
Moderator
Dr Light unregistered posted 21 November 2000 01:10
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So Mr_0
Perhaps you would like to explain to me how your parents fully understand HOW you got here , since you are a T.T, you showed them you c204 and they believed you totally?
I do not know your age so i am assuming that you would be over 40 years old.
How would your parents react to seeing you in 2000 as a 40 year old man? That would surely be enough evidence to show you are a true time traveller…
What exactly does the year 2000 have for you?
If you say the year 2005 is the war where 3 billion people die..you only have 5 years left then you will merely whisk off to 2036 with your IBM 5100 p.c,leaving our timeline in ruins and you would only be away for a few seconds…
What we do on our timeline IS our own business ,but we would appreciate it if you do not jeopardize our position here by giving someone the information/schematics to build a time machine that you say would “start a war”.
So what your saying is that the development of the C204 is the reason the “war” started?
So why are you trying to put us through your timeline and kill us too? Or are you trying to change history here and hope it will work on the parallel worlds theory and turns out well for you in the end?
As Pamela said you have an obligation to this world line. We may be in infinitely spaced world lines but that does not mean you should put us through your problems too.
What if you never showed up and gave us the schematics? Are you trying to AVOID or START a war of massive consequences?
Your argument is taken entirely out of context when i compare it to my previous argument about the P3 and the 286 processor
“What we do is our business” but you are here causing controversy and “hoping?” perhaps someone does create the c204?
So you are willing to sacrifice billions of lives and hope that everything is fine and dandy when you get back.
If events DO change here…they will change for you too.
BUT…
that's my OPINION.
Remember just answers please..
Thanking you,
Dr P.Light
(p.s pamela ,your opinion please)
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Shadow unregistered posted 21 November 2000 10:29
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Dr. Light,
There is a thin line between question and accusation. I’m pretty sure TT-O DOES NOT check in here seeking abuse or accusal.
The reason this board is here is to determine the the plausibility and possible usability of time travel. If there is no such thing, or even the perception that there is no time travel and no time travelers then we need to unplug this board and for all of us to ‘go home’.
The point is not is Mr. TT-O for real but rather is what we THINK we are doing here for real.
As TT-O says how we take care of our own time line IS OUR BUSINESS. Doing so in stark ignorance can lead to problems for those who put a priority on getting through the day alive.
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 21 November 2000 10:41
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All of the questions asked by Mr. Light have been answered in one way or another. I believe Pamela has that information if she has not released it already.
You assume I am here to start a war?
Consider this: You are a time traveler who wishes to go back in time to 1941 because your grandparents live close to Pearl Harbor in Hawaii. You realize you can’t stop the war but you may be able to help them prepare for it. Strangely, December 7th comes and goes with no sneak attack. As the war in Europe rages on, Japan fails to join the axis power, there is no war in the Pacific and the United States remains neutral. Then, you watch as Germany begins to develop the atomic bomb… all by themselves.
For a change, I have a question for all of you. I want you to think…think very hard. What major disaster was expected and prepared for in the last year and a half that never happened?[He's telling the audience his true purpose and intention in 1998 to 2000. It's Y2K. -Metallicman.]As far as war goes, I have faith you are quite capable of starting one all by yourself. I am hard pressed to accept any criticism on my outlook on that subject.
Growing up might have been a vastly different experience for me than it was for most of you. Personal responsibility, determination, honor, friendship and self-reliance are not just words we try to live up to or fantasize about.
On my world line, life is not easy.
We live in a world recovering from years of war, poison, destruction and hate. All of it, courtesy of the thinking and actions of people that live right now in the same world you do, worrying about which stocks to buy or whether or not a stranger is lying to them on the internet.
Destroyed Washington DC. The world as depicted by John Titor is not pleasant. In fact it is terrifying. The civil war fighting the DHS does not sound like fun either.
I believe that hardship and challenge develop character and community.
My first experience with war came when I joined a shotgun infantry unit at the age of thirteen. In the 4 years I served as a “rebel”, I watched hundreds of people get shot, burn and bleed to death.
I know exactly where I was and every detail of the exact moment the first nuclear warheads began falling on Jacksonville. I know the pain and regret of not acting soon enough to enjoy a relationship as a loved one dies of brain cancer from a war that gained nothing.
How can you possibly criticize me for any conflict that comes to you? I watch every day what you are doing as a society. While you sit by and watch your Constitution being torn away from you, you willfully eat poisoned food, buy manufactured products no one needs and turn an uncaring eye away from millions of people suffering and dying all around you. Is this the “Universal Law” you subscribe to?
Perhaps I should let you all in on a little secret. No one likes you in the future. This time period is looked at as being full of lazy, self-centered, civicly ignorant sheep. Perhaps you should be less concerned about me and more concerned about that.
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Shadow unregistered posted 21 November 2000 13:17
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Think, think, think, what major disaster didn’t happen last year. No y2k computer meltdown! Are you intimating that your people fiddled with time and saved us from that one? If so how could I complain other than to say that MY y2k preperations in themselves have turned into a MAJOR PERSONAL disaster that continues to this day. Ky-sur-sur-rah, ay?
Reading your posts I get conflicting ideas about what effect our timeline has on yours. Didn’t you say that “another you” was here now as a two year old child? Is the ‘Everret Many Worlds’ interpretation of quantum mechanics it the correct one then? You seem to look at us as represenative of your ACTUAL predicessors. There is something a bit unnerving about that. In fact the main reason why I think you might be genuine is that I have trouble thinking LIKE you do. I would expect this of an encounter with a “Chrono-alien”.
It seems to me that there would be some effect from one parallel world to another. Therefore what you do in this time line would have at least INDIRECT consequences in all future lines. The idea of many time lines I can ‘get’, but infinite ones? Perhaps on the parallel axis they just keep getting more different until they are seen as completly different alien worlds.
Is it possible to communicate between times and parallel worlds without physically going to them? Im getting a little sick of talking to myself…ha ha ..(.I think).
So we are all lazy and selfish around these times. Not exactly a news flash bud. Oh, did I leave out ignorant too? Hey it fits the profile. The word you are looking for however is POWERLESS. That is why we now, in general don’t give a flying crap about what goes on. There ain’t nothing we can do about it aside getting out teeth kicked in for trying.
Let me put it this way. The wrong people got all the money……already.
The rest of us are mostly concentrating on not starving or freezing to death. What do you want anyway? The disaster you have suffered in your time (and ours to come I suppose) got its start long long before today. We were warned decades ago……yeah now I see your point.
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Shadow unregistered posted 21 November 2000 13:37
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To: TimeTravel_0
Refer to post above…….forgot to stick your name on it again.
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Shadow unregistered posted 21 November 2000 13:47
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To: TimeTravel_0
Has the mystery of UFO’s been solved by 2036? Crop circles? I figure it is all “paralell worlder” stuff but is anything specific been determined?
BTW
The one way questioning going on here is mosty because you already know lots more about us than we can ever know about you. Let us know when you plan to check out.
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Time02112 Member posted 21 November 2000 14:41
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A.) Russia has “ALWAYS” been considered the first Country, to be suspect of a probable Nuclear Attack against the USA, and I, for one have NEVER relinquished the thought that inevitably, this will happen while I remain alive to witness this unfourtunate trajedy come to fruition.
*Why have they been stockpiling Nuclear arms purchased from their Diplomatic relations with China, and protesting our “Star-Wars” defense systems during this plot?
We never seen it comming?
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 21 November 2000 21:31
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There have been a great many questions piling up that I do plan to get to. If anyone sees a question I have answered before, please feel free to repeat the answer.
I do not plan on leaving this world line for a while yet. I very much enjoy spending time with my family.
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Curious unregistered posted 21 November 2000 23:01
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To TT_0, How is it, that in the future they can produce and contain an artificial singularity, by complex computer systems, but can’t reproduce a basic pc (IBM 5100). Or is it easier to just “borrow” these items from an alternate time line? Or did you use the lack of a computer system as an excuse to vist your family?
Curious
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Dr Light unregistered posted 22 November 2000 12:57
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To T.T_0,
So if we are a bunch of sick lazy ignorant stupid etc etc’s……what are YOU doing among us?
Do you like our artificial foods? Or is it the meaningless piles of “junk” we churn out year after year? Perhaps it is the choked atmosphere? And we also turn an “uncaring eye” away from the millions suffering too?
Perhaps this time is just like yours……
We still have war , hate and all the above.
Humph. I didnt know that what we think is so technologically advanced and superior ( myself excluded)is looked upon as ,for want of a better word, “Sh*t”
I agree with Shadow.
Can we help but to eat these foods , drink this water? Survival is the key word here.
But another question arises..
Do you think i am accusing you? I meerly went and posted a message about my opinions on the subject.I happen to strongly believe in Time travel and i also believe YOU.They are only QUESTIONS as i have stated Mr_0. I also dont think you are here to start a war, of all things. if it was for my family, i would go though time too.
Or else what would i be doing here?
As soon as anyone here on this forumn starts talking in terms of “not believing you” you get aggravated? I dont wish for that to be.
These are questions , and nothing more. Tell me if i have hit a soft spot. Im not trying to but it might seem that way.
Life here in 2000 is not at all easy for us here too. A handfull of people run this timeline….
(Sigh)
Regards,
Dr. P.Light
(P.S) There are a few questions (not accustaions as you out them) i would like to ask about the workings of the C204 unit before you leave us. I will post them up later.
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Lllllllll unregistered posted 22 November 2000 14:32
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What Can we do to help you here in this time line.
Who is responcible for the disaster to come?
Can you tell us if the world has been unified under one single goverment in your time?
Do you have the means to calculate interactions over the range of the universe so that to enable which alterations need to be made at which points in the present universe at given times in order recreate an optimal time period for yourself when you return?
Remember this no matter what generation one goes to there is always trechory for it is sin in the human race that enables such degradation?
What do you think about our time period?
Have you tried any of our fast food?
What technologies were lost as a result of the war?
Who won the war?
My favorite junk food is M&M’s.
What ebergy source did you use for your traveling technique?
Did you use acceleration or compression as a stabilizing force?
How did you overcome the temperal turbulence caused by the affects of time dilation?
Was topology a big part of it?
Are you seeking to return to a parallel dimension?
In the present. Has anyone actually created a true interdimensional device. Or has only parrellel frames past frames been abtained within the worldline of the negative universe?
What do you need to fix your ship?
Has your resurfacing in the past resulted in the creation of a parallel entity as a result of the transfer of a phantom point of entity equivalence across the intersimensional barrier resulting in the abstraction of an existant entity out of the fractional entity less then zero?
Have you figured a way to counter this energy?
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Time02112 Member posted 22 November 2000 16:44
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11/20/00 – Mon/Tue
Guest: Dr. Eugene Mallove
Dr. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief and Publisher of Infinite Energy Magazine will discuss cold fusion and new energy technology. Dr. Mallove holds a Master of Science Degree and Bachelor of Science Degree in Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineering from MIT and a Science Doctorate in Environmental Health Sciences from Harvard University.
Book: Fire from Ice: Searching for the Truth Behind the Cold Fusion Furor
Website: www.infinite-energy.com
(Click on the Windows media icon above, to listen to the pre-recorded broadcast.)
I posted this elswhere, however I wanted to ensure that TT_0 would review this, and post his comments accordingly…
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Pamela Member posted 22 November 2000 20:58
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Pamela: 1.What exactly would an observer see as they saw you arriving in this time? and exactly what would they see as you departed? would you just appear suddenly or slowly? would you look like a heat mirage for awhile? Any light effects? or hazy misty shimmering distortion?
Time travel_0- The observation of time travelers “appearing” suddenly in a world line do not happen very often. There are two cases and two points of view to consider. In the first case, the time machine does not move as it goes from one world line to another and then returns. The people watching on the original world linewould wave good bye and watch as the machine is turned on.
There would be a static discharge and the air would appear to “ripple” as if it were getting denser. Then, it would stop and the machine will have appeared to have gone no where. If the machine doesn’t move its position from world line to world line, the observer would not see it disappear at all.
In the second case, if the machine is moved, it would disappear from the viewpoint of the observer and return in a different location based on where it was moved and turned on from the destination world line.
In that case, the rippling seems to dissolve the machine and it disappears. If that happens while you are watching it leave and you expect it to return, you know it was moved or had a serious malfunction.
It is actually quite dangerous to get too close to a distortion unit as it enters or leaves a world line. It vents radiation and has a very strong localized gravity field. Personally, I worry about that a great deal.Pamela:2.What is the dimension of the field around the car? How many feet out from the car would you say it goes?
Timetravel_0-It can be adjusted to some degree. The CG (center of gravity) is adjustable within about 4 feet and the unit is effective about 10 to 12 feet in either direction from there. The vertical distance is quite a bit shorter and is determined by sensors in the unit.Pamela:3.approximately in inches how much of the ground is taken with you in one trip?
timetravel_0-Depending on weather or not you are going forward or backward, the footprint of the unit is different. I wouldn’t quite say it “scoops” up the ground cleanly. It sort of vibrates it loose and takes it along for the ride. It looks like someone raked the ground an inch or so deep with a small hand hoe or shovel.
The negative ergosphere “scoops” up the front and back areas of the field. The positive ergosphere leaves a longer area near the center of mass. Its about a cubic foot of dirt spread out over six square feet or so.Pamela:4.If they put the device in a house and turned it on what do you think would happen?
Timetravel_0-It might not be as destructive as you think. Depending on how close any object is to the field, it might not do any damage at all except for the floor.Pamela:5.what would happen to a bird or small animal that ran across the field right when it was producing the field to travel?
Timetravel_0-It would be quickly spread out over the lateral length of the gravity field. Imagine being squished and stretched at the same time. I would imagine anything left after that would be vaporized and generate static electricity.Pamela:6.how hot would you say the temperature gets on the outside of the car while in operation?
Timetravel_0-Very! hot. Depending on the power setting, 100 to 120 degrees is average.Pamela:7.is the car in drive mode when the device is activated or is it totally turned off?
Timetravel_0-The car is off and the brake on.Pamela: 8.has the device been tested on ships and airplanes?
Timetravel_0-Not that I’m aware of. Its important that it remain as still as possible so the gravity sensors can get a good lock. The divergence confidence would be way off if the vehicle was moving.Pamela:9.do you wear special uniforms when you time travel? what do they look like and does your group have a timetravel emblem or group name?
Timetravel_0-I wear a standard civilian service uniform during instruction and training. Its sort of a cross between an army uniform and overalls.
We do have a quarter master who distributes clothing appropriate to where ever we are going.
There is a patch. It is round and has a graphic of a Kerr singularity (sort of looks like an eye with gravity waves around it) with two spiral paths running through it’s center. One path represents the “safe” way and the other is the path to God. The bottom of the patch has my unit number along with “Temporal Recon” printed on it.
However, we remove any identification and patches before we go anywhere.Pamela:10.Can you tell us what you know about the famous Philadelphia experiment?
timetravel_0-I am aware of the basic story but I don’t have any other information to prove or disprove it.Pamela:11. How long do we have to talk to you before you leave?
timetravel_0-I’ll be around for a while yet.
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Shadow unregistered posted 22 November 2000 22:13
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Leader of a troup of time traveling Irish Army ants:
Corporal_O’Kerrants.
If you see him
It ain’t ’em, but “EM”
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TimeMaster 1a Member posted 23 November 2000 06:10
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TimeTravel_0:
I have been looking over your time displacement unit and find it interesting.
This is a list of the basic components as I see it.
[1] Singularity drive housing.
[2] Singularity magnetic field coil.
[3] Magnetic field generator / regulator.
[4] Electron mass injection manifold.
[5] Electron regulator.
[6] Electron condenser.
[7] Singularity ??? sensor.
[8] Singularity cooling housing.
[9] Singularity cooling pump.
[10] Singularity cooling supply.
[11] Gravity sensor unit.
[12] Battery supply.
Can you verify these components? What type of sensor is number seven? Why are the four atomic clocks not shown?
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 25 November 2000 09:10
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(Can you verify these components?)
That looks correct. I must apologize for the poor quality of the information. There’s a running inside joke about the technical issues. If the unit has a serious problem its not as if anyone can use those drawings to take the electron manifold off the singularity housing with a flat head screw driver.
(What type of senser is number seven?)
That sensor detects various parameters from the singularity.
(Why are the four atomic clocks not shown?)
There is another page that depicts the computer and clock systems. That technology is not new and not very interesting. There is a cut-a-way drawing of the entire unit that I will probably post before I leave. I’ll send it to Pamalea.
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 25 November 2000 13:57
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To Shadow:
UFOs are as much as a mystery to me as they are to you. Would you be surprised to know that there are a great many people who don’t believe in time travel on my world line? I do believe UFOs are a real mystery but I also know that chaos theory dictates that no matter what technology or knowledge we have, there are always unknowns.
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 25 November 2000 13:59
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To: Curious
On my world line, it is known that the 5100 series is capable of reading all the IBM code written before the widespread use of APL and Basic. Unfortunately, there are none left that anyone can find on my world line.
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 25 November 2000 14:01
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To: Dr. P.Light
It is quite difficult to get used to some of the communication patterns I have come across here. Confusing conversational conflict for anger seems to be a common and typical problem. Why does the expression of differing emotion seem to threaten so many people? I do not feel accused nor was I trying to accuse anyone. Your opinions are as valid as anyone’s and I do not suggest you change them because of anything I say. I never said I was here to start a war although I have strong opinions about what a war would do for you. I am not aggravated by words.
Imagine you are Jewish and you are able to travel back in time to Germany in 1935. All around you are the patterns of thinking and action that will lead to a great deal of harm, death and destruction in just a few years. You have the advantage of knowing what will come but no one will listen to you. In fact, they think you’re insane and the situations you describe could never happen.
What I feel is not anger, it is sadness that you can not see what I see.
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 25 November 2000 14:03
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To: IIIIIIIIII
I appreciate your offer for help but I am quite alright. The responsibility for the “disaster” is your own but I do not consider it a disaster. Rebirth is often painful. My world line is not unified under a single government but I would say it is closer to a unified purpose. Isn’t that what you want anyway? No, I do not have the ability to make calculations that would effect world lines to my advantage. Besides the fact that manipulating people for personal gain is wrong, I am of the belief that it is best to make the world line you are on now better.
I like the incredible freedom you have on this world line but I see it as a trap and I fear the cost is the loss of your sense of connection with family and community. Yes, you can self actualize your ambitions but at what cost to the people around you…or yet to be born? The incredible availability of art, literature and limitless resources is hardly taken advantage of as I imagine the number of people sitting in front of their TVs.
No, I have not tried any fast food. Thinking about where the food came from, how it was shipped and treated absolutely terrifies me. I have tried to tell people about CJD disease and it seems to be “catching on” in Europe.
Technologies themselves are not lost but some of the older tools and techniques have been lost. I think there is more detailed information about the war posted earlier.
The energy stored in the singularity is used to create the distortion fields. That energy is created in a particle accelerator. I’m not sure what you mean by “temporal turbulence”. What effect would that have that would need to be overcome?
When I leave, I will return to 2036. The computer I have is expected there. I am unaware of any “true” inter-dimensional device available on this world line now. I would image the effects of such a device would be hard to hide.
My “ship” is not broken. I am here by choice. Don’t you find current events interesting? Again, I’m not sure I understand your last question. Perhaps we should agree to the definitions of a few terms and basic physics before I try to answer that.
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Time02112 Member posted 25 November 2000 17:08
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I am unaware of any “true” interdimensional device available on this world line now. I would image the effects of such a device would be hard to hide.
TT_0 I recommend that you read the following archived posts. Although there are some interesting information about “Existing” portals that traverse the Space-Time continuumn, Time~Travel capability is just one ability that these devices are capable of, and the most interesting factor resides with the fact that they may even pre-date mankinds own history? (perhaps.)
The fact that better equipment is supposed to get the reverse-time traveler closer to their actual past indicates that there is an ACTUAL SPECIFIC past that he is aiming for. So if in practical application the traveler ends up 2% divergent upon arrival in the past and if he stays in that line he finds that it is not a line at all, but that going forward, divergence approaches infinity. If this is so, the only way to get back to ones’ original future is to have left some kind of specified object or condition there as a marker. Reverse time divergence is an artifact of the machine you use and not a built in natural law of physics.
In this idea the past is exactly behind you and the future is always and literally “right around the corner”, It also suggests that the self is fractionalized over several to many parallel time lines even though we may only *realize* one line at once. Organic psyche may be what LIMITS divergence (of time lines). Also if this theory is correct we may be 2% divergent from TT_0 but going forward in this time line he is 98% divergent from us. My logic is pretty good here, how’s my facts?
BTW Someone just gave me a working IBM 5160. Should I save it or toss it?
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Pamela Member posted 26 November 2000 16:32
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To the reader: feel fortunate you are reading this I had a hard time posting it hopefully it will appear this time. More questions from me to Timetravel_0 and his answers.
(can you tell us which of our foods are poison and why?)(What can we do to prepare ourselves for the coming war.)
I tried to consolidate your questions into a basic list. I hope this helps.
[1] Do not eat or use products from any animal that is fed and eats parts of its own dead.
[2] Do not kiss or have intimate relations with anyone you do not know.
[3] Learn basic sanitation and water purification.
[4] Be comfortable around firearms. Learn to shoot and clean a gun.
[5] Get a good first aid kit and learn to use it.
[6] Find 5 people within 100 miles that you trust with your life and stay in contact with them.
[7] Get a copy of the US Constitution and read it.
[8] Eat less.
[9] Get a bicycle and two sets of spare tires. Ride it 10 miles a week.
[10] Consider what you would bring with you if you had to leave your home in 10 min. and never return.
(Can you tell us exactly what event started the war? Is there any way we can stop it?)
The war is a result of faulty politics and desperation from Western leadership during the US civil war. Yes, I suppose you could stop it.
(Are some states or countries safer than others?)
Take a close look at the county by county voting map from the last elections.
(Did they use biological and chemical weapons in the war besides nukes? Did they use mind control weapons?)
Yes there were bio and chem weapons used. No mind control weapons but there are new “non-lethal” weapon systems that turn out to be quite lethal.
( Have you discovered the cure for cancer or aids yet?)
Aids…no. Cancer…some progress.
(If our leaders of this world line were reading this posting and believe who you say you are……..what would you say to them right now?)
Revel in your confidence today because you will not win tomorrow.
(What is the main message you want to convey to us at this time?)
Please, please wake up. Look at the sign posts around you now.
(Can you explain this further when you talked of your patch and the two spirals one was the “safe” way and one was the way to God. Can you expound on that I didn't quite understand it.)
The safe way is the one calculated to take you in time where you want to go, the other path will take you to God (death). Both are equally accepted and anticipated before each trip.
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 26 November 2000).] IP: Logged
Fast Member posted 26 November 2000 17:51
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ive been gone for 4 days and i get back and TT0 is leaving and there are people in doubt over his story??
I have been reading that around 2011 there is some new world order-type government in place…TT0,can u verify?
Also,a while back(page 2 of the posts) you said something was wrong with UNIX in your time…what is wrong?
Fast Out
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Fast Member posted 26 November 2000 18:01
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“–Perhaps I should let you all in on a little secret. No one likes you in the future. This time period is looked at as being full of lazy, self-centered, civicly ignorant sheep. Perhaps you should be less concerned about me and more concerned about that.”
who’s to say that in your own time-line’s future,your not considered barbaric and immature in your own arrogance with the notion that ‘yes we survived…we can handle another war…now lets use the technology that STARTED the bloody war and go back into someone else’s time-line and start a war there too…perhaps then we will have parallel companions with the same motives?’
War is the darkest of all Arts.The Age which follows includes those who practice another of the darkest:arrogance.
Fast Out
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Dr. Light unregistered posted 27 November 2000 01:37
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To: T-T-0
Just a quick question before i jet,
Does the events happening in the Middle east concerning the Arabs and Jews have anything to do with the coming war? I mean to say that since the Jewish population seems to have quite considerable power now in 2000, would they mount a force against other countries or am i under the belief that the war will result from the U.S government election?(among other things).
On another previous note,
You must understand that we cannot just willingly give in our skepticism just because a person comes onto a bulletin board and announces that he/she is from 2036?
Tell me T-T_0, when you first typed a message here announcing your arrival…did anyone believe you? We have had proven “false” time travelers here before as you may have heard. But your considerable grasp of quantum physics and distortion fields seems to justify you.
Seems like your the …”real deal”
P.S–I KNEW that particle acceleraton technology would be part of time travel!!!
Makes sense doesn't it!
P.P.S– Singularity cooling pump?
What do you cool the singularity with?
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Dr .P Light unregistered posted 27 November 2000 04:01
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To TT-0
Just an afterthought i forgot to add to my previous post..
How much more advanced are the computer hardware and software systems in the future?
Are we looking at 110Ghtz computers with stamped silicon system technology as opposed to 200 million microtransistor configurations?
Or do we have the usual “crawling along with hardware advances every 6 months?”
Please feel free to go into details.
Dr P.Light
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Time02112 Member posted 27 November 2000 16:03
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pamela
Member posted 08 April 2000 18:23
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This is interesting: http://www.damanhur.org/time/html/kindred_spirit_s_article.htm
click on “interview with a timetraveller.”
“tales of the unexpected” is his recall of his travels.
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Do you remember this one Pamela? http://tectime.cjb.net
[This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 27 November 2000).] IP: Logged
IIIIIIIIII unregistered posted 27 November 2000 22:57
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Dear Time0,
if one found a method to pry apart a magnetic field would this result in a containable release of energy. Would the energy channeled through the tear be in the form of a tachyon field with the forward edge of the tachyon field at a velocity of light. Would the internal tachyons within the tachyon field have a velocity greater then light even though existing in the present subliminal time frame?
inquisitively.
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Time02112 Member posted 28 November 2000 01:29
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TT_0
What can you tell us about
“Space Time Transposing” ?
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Time02112 Member posted 28 November 2000 01:51
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Originaly posted from the coast to coast forum by: Alan Troidl http://post.coasttocoastam.com/showthread.php?threadid=355
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Time travel has been taking place for thousands of years. The foremost device used was the pyramids around the world used by ancient civilizations. This was for time travel and not so much as a burial site as commonly believed. The physics behind this is the sacred geometrics of the pyramid shape.
The geometric shape of the pyramid allows for the concentration of “White Light” as well as “Dark Light”. The dark light was conducted from the area in the pyramid know as the “well” which no one could understand its use as it is a hole that suddenly stops with no apparent purpose or use.
Above the King’s Chamber are huge layered stones with air spaces. One side shiny and smooth and the other side dark and rough. This is a capacitance machine for the separate collection of the 2 light sources.
These 2 light sources, one coming from the earth and the white light from the cosmos above criss crossed but did not intersect each other at the point of the sarcophagus. This technology allowed for time travel and the opening of the “third eye”.
As well, the design of 2 pyramids intersecting base to base to give you the design of the 6 point star, (or the star of david), is the sacred symbol and geometry to enter into zero point time or Christ Consciousness. There are modern day devices that impliment these principals for time travel.
By having your own brain operating at the same harmonic frequency as obtained through man made devices, can give you the same ability to do conscious time travel.
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Time02112 Member posted 28 November 2000 02:01
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There is a fortelling of a significant Time Divergence that is believed to occur during the year 2012 according to the ancient Mayans, yet you claim to be from 2034, and posses a working Time Travel device…
What can you tell us would happen to you, or anyone else who were to use your device, or another one similar in capabilities to travel to the yr. 2012???———–
(also I would like you to tell us what you know, or have been told what takes place in “2112”)
incidentally, since it is common knowledge that many events within our cosmos are cyclical, interesting enough the “Photon Belt” returns to our solar system every 26,000 yrs. and in the given Time frame since it’s last presence in our solar system, that would place it’s peak convergence upon us again at 2012 coincidence?
[This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 28 November 2000).] IP: Logged
Time02112 Member posted 29 November 2000 02:22
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TT_0 so many questions, yet you seem to have more “Time” than most to address them, so while I await your replies to my other posts, here goes another….
I’ts no big secret among thos who are “In the Know” of our current worldline’s attempts to control the weather i.e. HAARP & Chemtrails, so What can you tell us about the future of weather control such as the following…
bronze flying globes that float in the air over the earth, and are aligned in grid formations, and lasers joining them together in the air, churning out snow storms, rain, or whatever else they decide to induce,to be created in the given space provided???
——BTW; I traveled to the past, and grabbed an earlier comment you posted.
Does anyone remember this one?
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 02 November 2000 01:00
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I saw the posting requesting the basic systems for a gravity distortion system that will allow time travel. Here they are:
[1] Magnetic housing units for dual microsignularities. [2] Electron injection manifold to alter mass and gravity of microsingularities. [3] Cooling and x-ray venting system [4] Gravity sensors (VGL system) [5] Main clocks (4 cesium units) [6] Main computer units (3)
[This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 29 November 2000).] IP: Logged
Shadow unregistered posted 29 November 2000 09:29
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I hate to sound sarcastic but didn’t you some what gloss over the most critical piece of time-travel equipment? I don’t see the $10,000,000+ dollars listed anywhere, that it would take to buy and fabricate all that other stuff.
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Pamela Member posted 30 November 2000 19:43
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time 02112:
this web site from Nov. 1, 2000 at 10:00pm till Nov. 30, 2000 at 7:38pm has been accessed: 4026 times.
I was curious how many hits it got in about a month. well there it is… heheheh
if it continues it will be well over 48,312 a year.
I thought it was interesting. there seems to be a lot of people interested in time travel but few post.
-pamela
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 30 November 2000).] IP: Logged
Perhaps it is better to understand if one understands that all fractional entities less then one is equal to zero spatially and less then zero temperally when measuring the temperal fractional entity in terms of spacial fractional entity known as a plancs length. Of course I could be misinterpreting the definition of a plancs length. Please feel free to correct me if I am incorrect in assuming that what I have gathered as the definition of a temperal zero, and a spacial zero; and the plancs temperal length, and a plancs spacial length as being the same conscept: is wrong. Otherwise the ofore mentioned point of view ought to be considered. (If there is any confusion as to what I am talking about please have a look see under rgrunts time travel posting in order to acquire the basic train of thought behind the above mentioned statement.)
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Pamela Member posted 01 December 2000 23:04
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timetravel_0 said he would be back he is just a little busy right now.
patience is a virtue. time takes… time.
-pamela
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[This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 02 December 2000).] IP: Logged
Thanks for the knowledge Pamela. I really think that the design or basic model that Time-o gave sounds legit but I think that if he could replace the particle accelerator with a an electromagnetic device that uses only one kind of particle-a magnetic photon- that the energy would be much more stable and easier to control. I also believe that such a replacement would require much less accuracy and would be at the minimum as efficient if not more efficient then the energy production that he is intent on using. A gravity generator would also be just as effective in extracting the necessary energy required to power the device. This will require alot more effort such as discovering how to make a gravitational generator.
sincerely,
Edwin G. Schasteen
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 06 December 2000 21:36
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(What is the popular music like?)
Most of the same music you enjoy is available on archive. However the days of mega-stars playing multiple track studio produced music and lip synching on a huge stage are pretty much isolated to your time period. Like everything else, music is much less centralized. The general trend is away from “computer generated” music and more toward real people playing real instruments. Music is much more of a personal experience. More people know how to read music and play together in small groups.
(Are there any social prejudices)
Yes there are. However, as odd as it may sound, it serves a useful purpose in my time. First, you must realize that your experiences with “prejudice” and mine are different. I would characterize the intolerance you have here as a result of ignorance and fear. I have observed that people with unfounded and irrational fears about their fellow man in this time have the luxury of not having their beliefs tested.
After the war, much of the prejudice you have now was swept away by simple necessity. People had to work and fight together just to survive. This has a way of opening a person’s eyes as to the value of fellow human beings.
What difference does the color of a man’s skin make when you are both fighting against the same enemy to survive or find water or grow food? On my world line, if a man doesn’t pull his weight in the community, then we feel prejudice towards him as a burden to us. This feeling of shame he experiences then makes him realize his responsibilities.
(What is the health care system like)
You would probably not like it at all. I would compare it to what you see in Western movies. We do have hospitals but there are more family doctors and house calls as compared to what you are used to. There is no real organized health care. If you get a serious disease, you die. This however has had a tendency to strengthen the general genetic pool. Doctors are more concerned about things like broken legs, snake bites and delivering healthy babies.
(What is the entertainment industry like, movies, tv, radio, internet?)
Again, entertainment is less centralized. There are “movies” and “tv” but everything is distributed over the net and more people produce their own “shows”.
(How difficult is it for someone to start from nothing and get a job and make a living for themselves?)
Very easy. If you can work with your hands and get along with other people, you will always find work.
(If a group of people were to travel forward in time to avoid a situation, would they be still be able to live in relative peace? Or would they be looked down on for that? Should they just keep that a secret to make things easier?)
From a physical standpoint, I suppose that would work if you were trying to escape a natural disaster. But you must consider that trying to “escape” by time traveling has it’s own problems. I’m not exactly sure what you mean by being looked down on.
(I have been reading that around 2011 there is some new world order-type government in place…TT0,can u verify?)
On my world line in 2011, the United States is in the middle of a civil war that has dramatic effects on most of the other Western governments.
(Also,a while back(page 2 of the posts) you said something was wrong with UNIX in your time…what is wrong?)
Yes… and with your’s too. I have to believe there must be a UNIX expert out there someplace that can confirm that. I’m not exactly sure what the technical issue is but I believe some sort of UNIX system registry stops in 2038.
(Does the events happening in the Middle east concerning the Arabs and Jews have anything to do with the coming war? )
Yes.
(I mean to say that since the jewish population seems to have quite considerable power now in 2000…)
I’m not sure what power you are referring to.
(Tell me T-T_0, when you first typed a message here announcing your arrival…did anyone believe you?)
I don’t know if anyone believes me now. But you must realize that I don’t expect anyone to believe me or does it affect me one way or the other. I enjoy these conversations too. What would you expect a time traveler to say or do in your time?
(What do you cool the singularity with?)
Very highly technical, cooling stuff. [sorry, I don’t get much of a chance to be a wise guy ]
(How much more advanced are the computer hardware and software systems in the future? )
Good question! I would say the biggest difference is in the reliability of the hardware and software. It absolutely amazes me how willing people are here to accept computer and software failures on such a regular basis.
I was very surprised to see how prolific it is. You can look forward to very stringent manufacturing parameters and programming discipline. Think back to the early days of the computer and how much work and cleverness it took to fit those programs into such small areas of memory.
Has more and cheaper memory brought better programs or just more programs?
As far as technical specifics, I’m afraid I can not go into too much detail. However, I will tell you that processor speed and memory size take dramatic leaps forward.
(if one found a method to pryapart a magnetic field would this result in a containable release of energy. Would the energy channeled through the tear be in the form of a tachyon field with the forward edge of the tachyon field at a velocity of light. Would the internal tachyons within the tachyon field have a velocity greater then light even though existing in the present subluminal time frame? inquisitively.)
Hmmm… I afraid my notebook on Maxwell’s equations isn’t with me and I must say again that I am not a physicist. As far as tachyons goes, it’s my understanding that they can not exist at all unless they are created and “traveling” faster than light. As far as time travel goes, I’m afraid tachyons are merely useful for describing various quirky effects of strange matter.
Time 02112 has asked me some questions that I must give further thought to. I will post again as soon as I get a chance.
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Pamela Member posted 08 December 2000 01:08
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Timetraveler_0-
I thought people might be interested in seeing the drawing of the patch you sent me that you wear on your uniform. minus the unit number and the name TEMPORAL RECON.
I know you said you didnt care if i posted it or not. for anyone who would like to see it Doc has posted it on his site here:http://pub2.ezboard.com/bmagisystems then click on “timelords anonymous” and it is after your other pictures on the “anonymous gravity/time device pictures” I tried to do a direct link but it didnt work.
…and another one, (Cleaned & Enlarged) version here:> http://www.egroups.com/files/tapten/TAP-TEN/TT_0/T-T+Insignia.jpg
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Roby unregistered posted 10 December 2000 12:07
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I was just wondering who won the Super Bowl in the year 2001?
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Tiger Cohen Junior Member posted 10 December 2000 09:24
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Hello TT_O!
I have read some of the concourse up to the end of this topic’s dialogue. I find your answers to questions posed, quite … um, shall we say … creative. To say the least you are a very imaginative person.
I am not here debunking your travels or to discount your stated technology, but I do have just one question.
If your machine is capable of traveling back through time from future earth to now, I wonder how your vehicle landed on this earth at all? You obviously know that this earth and your earth do not occupy the same quadrant of space. Our earth is rotating along it’s axis at 1600kph and moving on an elliptical orbit around a sun in a solar system which itself is circling and expanding the galactic center of our galaxy which is itself ever-expanding outward. In truth your machine should (but doesn’t) also have some kind of ‘warp’ capability incorporated in it in order to go back in space to the point where we are now. It’s a wonder that your vehicle didn’t end up in deep space or caught in the gravity well of some other stellar mass. You would also need a life support system to sustain you until you were within earth’s atmosphere.
Oh, I know that you may claim to have access to galactic stellar cartography from this period of space and time, but how would you account for the earth’s rotational speed as well as the moon’s gravitation effect and lastly the avoidance of man made structures which are not totally mapped even by our geosynchronus comsats of this day?
I’m not worried about pieces of dirt within your temporal field or even the odd stray cat being dispersed by your resulting static electricity, but I am curious as to how you overcome all of these obstacles from the contoured seat of what you claim is just a time machine?
Pamela seemed concerned with the ‘go nowhere ripple effect’ that might occur when a time machine left and then returned, but I find even that logic flawed. I maintain that a time machine would imprint itself spatially upon a certain time period. Einstein’s Theory of Relativity would dictate that even if you left in such a machine for two minutes, this time would continue to advance and this world would still move through space and rotate. Therefore a time machine would NOT appear to stand still but rather would (depending upon the time interval) appear to suddenly defy gravity as it disappeared and then, free of the gravitational momentum, would reappear in near or far space. If you think my logic is faulty, then try jumping high in the air from the back of a flatbed truck while it moves along at freeway speeds.
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 10 December 2000 11:00
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I will try to answer all of your questions however, I have noticed that there seems to be a difficulty in entering a conversation in the middle. Most of the following questions I have answered at length in previous posts. I understand how important it is to have these answers when new people read portions of the posting but I find it tiring to keep repeating myself. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
(I was just wondering who won the Super Bowl in the year 2001?)
I do not answer questions like this. Although I don’t really know the motivation for the question…I can guess. If a time traveler had knowledge of your future, and you could only ask one question, would this be it? Besides, can you tell me if it rained in New York on June 4th 1932? You are from their future so should you know that?
(I have read some of the concourse up to the end of this topic’s dialogue…. 1. If your machine is capable of traveling back through time from future earth to now, I wonder how your vehicle landed on this earth at all? You obviously know that this earth and your earth do not occupy the same quadrant of space…. You would also need a life support system to sustain you until you were within earth’s atmosphere… and lastly the avoidance of man made structures…)
This is actually a very good question that parts and pieces of the answer are scattered around in previous postings. I am often surprised that it is not the first one asked.
You are correct, this problem is actually the most difficult part of time travel. Although some of your assumptions about matter displacement are a bit off, the problem is real. Inside the displacement unit are a series of very sensitive clocks and gravity sensors.
This system is called the VGL (variable gravity lock).
In simple terms, before the unit “leaves” a world line, it takes a base reading of the local gravity and adjusts the Tipler sinusoid to “lock” into that position. Although the tmporal physics of this statement are wrong, in effect, it holds you to the “Earth”. During travel, it periodically checks to see that the field has not varied. If it does, it stops and reverses course or drops out at that point. Buildings and other terrain features are avoided in the same way.
Yes, we do bring oxygen in the vehicle with us but we do not lose atmospheric pressure.
(Pamela seemed concerned with the ‘go nowhere ripple effect’ that might occur when a time machine left and then returned, but I find even that logic flawed. I maintain that a time machine would imprint itself spatially upon a certain time period.)
I’m not sure what you mean by imprint?
(Einstein’s Theory of Relativity would dictate that even if you left in such a machine for two minutes, this time would continue to advance and this world would still move through space and rotate.)
Yes that is correct.
(Therefore a time machine would NOT appear to stand still but rather would (depending upon the time interval) appear to suddenly defy gravity as it disappeared and then, free of the gravitational momentum, would reappear in near or far space.)
Please see VGL system above. Also, please be aware that from the viewpoint of the time traveler, the displacement unit actually left and then returned. The viewer does not experience this. Think of it as a Gosub statement in a computer program.
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Pamela Member posted 10 December 2000 11:32
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from an e-mail to timetraveler_0 and his answers. (TTO-If any of this is different from what you sent me please let me know.this is copied and pasted.)
>1. what type of money system do you have on your world line? meaning how do you buy and sell things? Do you have the same type of money or do we have a cashless society? such as smart cards, credit cards or ID biochips.
Its not very different than it is now. Yes, we have money and credit cards. However, like everything else, the monetary system is decentralized. Banking is based mostly around the community structure. There are no multinational banking or computerized economic systems. There are also no income taxes.
>2. do you still use radio transponders to ID your cattle and other farm animals?
Some of the larger farm communities use electronic markers and fences. I am not a farmer so I don’t have very many details about that.
>3.Is the Global Positioning Satellite system still in place around the Earth?
Oh yes! In fact, the unit I have with me works here. I’m not sure why that surprises me. here are also a great many communications and internet satellite systems.
>4.Do you still have the American Flag as your flag? does it look different or is there a new flag?
Yes, we still have the flag. There is a debate about changing it from 50 stars to 5.
>5.Is there some states or areas that have new names ? is there a NewDenver, Kansas by any chance?
Not that I can think of… No major cities anyway. I am aware that some smaller towns changed their names after the war and most universities have the word “fort” before them on my world line.
>6. How many weeks of training is required before you timetravel? to what extent does the training involve? Are you able to make basic emergency repairs to the unit?
I started training on the recommendation of my PS officer when I got out of school in 34. I graduated in March of 35. Actual hands on training started soon after that and I left 2036 in April. No, there are not very many repairs I can make to the unit. The unit is built very well but the tolerances are very small. I could probably repair the electrical systems and it will accept inputs from older computers.
>7.Are you able to fish or are the waters polluted from fallout from the war?
Yes, we can fish. There are some areas that are still too dangerous to spend a lot of time in so we can’t fish in those areas.
>8.Are you aware of any time travelers from our time or other world lines that have entered your world line? Have you spoke to any of them?
No I am not aware. But I accept the possibility.
>9.What type of public transportation is used to get around in your cities?
A high speed train system connects the larger cities. Roads are still used for cars and many people ride horses and bikes.
>10. What things do you think you will take back with you from this time?
Books! I’m also taking copies of family photos that were lost during the war.
>11. How many weeks have you been in this world line? when did you arrive?
That I must keep to myself right now.
>12. What kind of books do you like to read? What kind of music do you like? do you play a musical instrument?
I read a great deal of history. I like piano classics and some older rock and roll. (why did that type of music go so far down hill?) No, I don’t play any instruments myself.
>13.Are you concerned about our government investigating you or trying to seize you or your device?
Not really. In order to find me, they would have to believe time travel is possible.
>14. are you videotaping or taking pictures of the events going on here to bring back with you to your time?
Oh yes.
>15. what is your favorite food to eat? here and in your world line.
Its very hard for me to find food here. It all scares the Hell out of me. I’ve found a couple of local farms where I am resonably sure the raw food is safe and my mother started a garden for me.
>16.does the cure for cancer have any thing to do with genetics?
Again…I’m no expert. I believe there is a great deal of progress in treating the cancer cells with modified viruses. So I guess the answer is yes.
>17.Do you have an increase in tornados and earthquakes than what we have now? is the average temperature in Florida in your time about the same as it is here? or is it different?
That’s one area I’ve decided not to talk about…sorry. The average temperature worldwide is a bit cooler.
>18. are any of the other 7 time travelers with you in this world line or are you by yourself?
No. They are off doing something else I’m sure.
>19. are there time travel web sites in the future? does this one still exist?
Time travel is a major point of social discussion. I’ll have to check when I get back. Most of the larger servers that were in the major cities were lost or destroyed. I’ll try to bring a copy back with me. Perhaps you can check that in your 2036.
>20.do you feel any connection at all to your other 2 year old self on this world line? does it seem like you or someone totally different? who does he think you are when you talk to him?
He calls me uncle. Yes, there is a connection. He feels like a younger brother. Sometimes I get mixed emotions watching him and realize I’m watching the origins of my personality. I tend to playfully criticize my father about that.
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djayr42 Member posted 10 December 2000 13:00
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Time Travel_0, some more questions for you. What is the education system like? For children? For adults? Is there more home schooling then there is now. What are the class sizes like? Is there any emphasis on a subject or subjects that are don’t exist now?
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Rgrunt unregistered posted 10 December 2000 13:10
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Are you going to take your family away with you to protect them from the coming events. Is this a temptation for you? Aren’t you worried about somebody finding your ship?
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Pamela Member posted 11 December 2000 12:58
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Reflecting upon the words timetravler_0 has shared with me personally and what I have posted of some of our conversations and watching the news everyday seeing what is happening now in Florida and the courts has made me think deeply upon the United States and the US constitution. What the US was founded on originally.
I found a web site that has the US constitution and the bill of rights here:
http://www.nara.gov/exhall/charters/charters.html
for anybody interested in reading it.
I printed out the whole constitution including the bill of rights and then sat down and read the whole thing out loud to myself thinking deeply on the rights our founding fathers were trying to protect.
For those of you U.S. citizens who cant remember the constitution beyond the words, “we the people.” its probably time to take another look. You never know what the future will be like. or how it will change.
The future is up to us…..
At the beginning of the constitution the first three words “WE THE PEOPLE..” was written in large letters on purpose.
sincerely,
pamela
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Dr Light unregistered posted 11 December 2000 05:27
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TT-O,
Could you elaborate on my previous questions..
I.E
How and why do the arabs/jews become entangled in the civil war of the U.S.A?
Also, about my previous question.. If you would look around you may notice that jewish poeple seem to hold “considerable” power concering major political positions both in America and Israel. For instance the latest technology concerning “defensive” technology
which you might think is reserved only for the superpowers, somehow made its way into Israel’s hands…
My point is that they seem to be an “underhand” world power that no-one seems to recognize,(or so it seems)
Also about the Arab side of affairs, they seem to be holding Biological weapons and thermonuclear weaponry. Do they end up launching these weapons against America or any other power?
I hope that cleared up my points somewhat.
Thanks,
Dr.P.Light
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Shadow unregistered posted 12 December 2000 20:36
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To TT-0
“Show me the money!” More impressive than the pix of your TT machine would be a clear photo of your post 2000 pocket change and paper currency.
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Fast Member posted 12 December 2000 21:01
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yes,im with shadow.show me the money
i remember reading somewhere online that somebody met their future self and got a dollar’s worth of quarters from the future… did they ever finish the 50 State Quarters,or did war break out and they halted it??
Fast Out
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Time02112 Member posted 13 December 2000 03:15
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Count me in on that on also (Good point)
while your at it, why not give us all a video, and provide us with a Link that would allow us to watch online, demonstrating your machine in use?
(perhaps as a parting gift.)
I still (patiently, patiently, PATIENTLY) await answers to several previous questions.
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Trintius unregistered posted 13 December 2000 08:17
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TimeTravel_0 a few questions,
– Just wondering who actually wins the US election, it’s fair question and im assuming they have Encyclopedia’s in the year 2036 so you have no excuse for not knowing the history of your own country?
– Secondly, thanks to national pride I must ask what becomes of Australia during and after the war?
Thanks for your time.
P.S – Dr Light stop peppering the poor time traveler with monotonous questions about Arabs and Jews, we all know you guys are gunna take over the world one day so there's no need to rub it in
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TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 13 December 2000 12:44
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Well…it looks like the election is almost over. I have been quite busy in the last few days and I appreciate everyone’s patience. I should be thanking you for listening and even if everything I have said before means nothing, I expect it has at least been entertaining. I went through the postings looking for questions I have not addressed yet. I hope I got to all of them. I get my email remotely through about three different systems and I use one of your hand-held computer units to write with. In a few days, I would like to send Pamela a list of questions of my own. As you know, one of my areas of expertise is in history and the information I have gathered has been invaluable. Although I am not leaving right away, I would like to include some of your thoughts in my report.
(Who’s to say that someone that will read this board, will be the one to actually invent the means for the C204 (or other units) to be operational? The divergence factor is so low, everybody will forget about this in a short time. I wouldn’t worry about it When Timetravel_0 goes back, this will be nothing but a memory…)
This statement is quite insightful. One of the reasons I have been communicating this way is so that others that do not post who I have directed here can see some of the information I have shared with you.
(You speak of 1 & 2 % “divergence” as being unimportant. I don’t get it. Like for example if OUR IBM5100 is 1% different than the code you have to run on it, it ain’t gonna work right. One percent in the FL vote count would be important. If I could see only 99% of the cars on the road it would be important to me. So, what exactly is X% divergent, and why is it not a major problem?)
The divergence measurement refers to the local gravitational field as compared to the point of origin. It is mearly an empirical indicator of overall change in a world line. Some things that are quite different on one world line have very little effect as time passes and the world lines appear to “converge” again and look very similar. World line changes are not exponential, they act more like chaotic attractors with varying effect depending on their size and location.
(Reading your posts I get conflicting ideas about what effect our timeline has on yours. Didn’t you say that “another you” was here now as a two year old child? Is the ‘Everret Many Worlds’ interpretation of quantum mechanics it the correct one then? You seem to look at us as representative of your ACTUAL predecessors. There is something a bit unnerving about that. In fact the main reason why I think you might be genuine is that I have trouble thinking LIKE you do. I would expect this of an encounter with a “Chrono-alien”.)
You are correct in your thinking. This world line is not mine but it looks very similar. It may be compared to reading two books that are the same. I can jump back and forth between them and still see the same story. I do not consider you true representatives of my world line but I do know something of how the story ends. In consideration of Everret-Wheeler, the reason we don’t know if Schrodinger’s cat is dead is because it might have had a time machine.
(Russia has “ALWAYS” been considered the first Country, to be suspect of a probable Nuclear Attack against the USA, and I, for one have NEVER relinquished the thought that inevitably, this will happen while I remain alive to witness this unfortunate tragedy come to fruition.)
You are also correct but I want to add a twist to your thinking. Russia’s enemy in the United States is not you, the average person. Russia’s enemy is the United States government.
(The fact that better equipment is supposed to get the reverse-time traveler closer to their actual past indicates that there is an ACTUAL SPECIFIC past that he is aiming for. So if in practical application the traveler ends up 2% divergent upon arrival in the past and if he stays in that line he finds that it is not a line at all, but that going forward, divergence approaches infinity.)
Yes, this is true. If I go forward on this world line, the future will not be my future. I get home by going back to 1975 before I arrived and then going forward to 2036.
(Also if this theory is correct we may be 2% divergent from TT_0 but going forward in this time line he is 98% divergent from us. My logic is pretty good here, how’s my facts?)
Your deductions are quite accurate. (I’m not stating yet that I did… but) what if I told you I did go forward to “your” 2036 and it looks nothing like mine. It is quite possible.
(BTW Someone just gave me a working IBM 5160. Should I save it or toss it?)
Toss it. The 5100 is the interesting machine.
(Does the events happening in the Middle east concerning the Arabs and Jews have anything to do with the coming war? I mean to say that since the Jewish population seems to have quite considerable power now in 2000, would they mount a force against other countries or am I under the belief that the war will result from the U.S government election?(among other things).)
Real disruptions in world events begin with the destabilization of the West as a result of degrading US foreign policy and consistency. This becomes apparent around 2004 as civil unrest develops near the next presidential election. The Jewish population in Israel is not prepared for a true offensive war. They are prepared for the ultimate defense. Wavering western support for Israel is what gives Israel’s neighbors the confidence to attack. The last resort for a defensive Israel and it’s offensive Arab neighbors is to use weapons of mass destruction. In the grand scheme of things, the war in the middle-east is a part of what’s to come, not the cause.
(What can you tell us about “Space Time Transposing” ?)
Perhaps you could describe what you mean? It appears to be space travel or the effect of similar atomic particles that seem to be related over great distances. Again, please forgive my ignorance, I am not a trained physist.
(There is a foretelling of a significant Time Divergence that is believed to occur during the year 2012 according to the ancient Mayans, yet you claim to be from 2034, and posses a working Time Travel device… What can you tell us would happen to you, or anyone else who were to use your device, or another one similar in capabilities to travel to the yr. 2012???———-also I would like you to tell us what you know, or have been told what takes place in “2112”)
In my 2012, I was 14 years old spending most of my time living, running and hiding in the woods and rivers of central Florida. The civil war was in its 7th year and the world war was three years away. Yes, there are unusual events in 2012 but they do not cause the world to end. Unfortunately, I have decided not to discuss events that you or I can do anything about. It is important that they be a surprise. Perhaps you are familiar with the story of the Red Sea and the Egyptians?
(It’s no big secret among those who are “In the Know” of our current world line’s attempts to control the weather i.e. HAARP & Chemtrails, so What can you tell us about the future of weather control such as the following… bronze flying globes that float in the air over the earth, and are aligned in grid formations, and lasers joining them together in the air, churning out snow storms, rain, or whatever else they decide to induce, to be created in the given space provided???)
I must admit I am unfamiliar with most of what you have asked here. I am aware of the Harp system but I don’t know how they would control weather with it.
(What is the education system like? For children? For adults? Is there more home schooling then there is now. What are the class sizes like? Is there any emphasis on a subject or subjects that are don’t exist now?)
The education system has been through many changes. School in 2036 is no longer a political indoctrination system and students “learn how to learn”. Since community activity varies from place to place, the emphasis on basic reading, math and language is augmented with skills particular to the community. One school may emphasis farming while another teaches woodworking.
Having children is a bit different and less common in 2036.
A typical school day involves a setting very much like it was 100 years ago with smaller classes and few administrators to teachers. Other areas of study that are less common now are history, citizenship and personal economics.
(Are you going to take your family away with you to protect them from the coming events. Is this a temptation for you? Aren’t you worried about somebody finding your ship?)
No I am not taking them with me but I am trying to prepare them for the future as a promise to my Grandfather in 1975. I am not really that concerned about the “time machine”. It is quite safe.
(How and why do the Arabs Jews become entangled in the civil war of the U.S.A?)
They are not directly involved but political situations are dependant on Western stability, which collapses in 2005.
(Also about the Arab side of affairs, they seem to be holding Biological weapons and thermonuclear weaponry. Do they end up launching these weapons against America or any other power? )
Not against America but they are used against each other.
(“Show me the money!” More impressive than the pix of your TT machine would be a clear photo of your post 2000 pocket change and paper currency.)
I am disappointed that you feel I am trying to impress you. Why would I bring money from 2036 with me? Besides, isn’t that something that could easily be faked? Now if I told you I was your cousin’s brother and I knew about that scare on your left leg…that would convince you.
(while your at it, why not give us all a video, and provide us with a Link that would allow us to watch online, demonstrating your machine in use?(perhaps as a parting gift.)
That is an interesting idea. I will look into how to do that.
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Time02112 Member posted 13 December 2000 18:12
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While your at it TT_0, don’t forget to place a v-cam inside with you, so we can observe the video images that appear through your eyes as you travel, as well as another observing yourself, and a third one outside of the field, observing you depart, and return.
I’m talking 3 V-Cams, to give us these different observations with, which means you have to leave & return to us, to deliver the images.
This would be more valuable than giving us picture of future money, also it would really be way cool, if you could send us video images of the earth below, while observing from an aircraft, what this future landscape of yours looks like, after this great flood of the East & Western U.S. coastal areas that is supposed to take place.
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Time02112 Member posted 13 December 2000 18:19
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BTW TT_0, whatever you can arrange would be appreciated, if you cannot get access to an aircraft, you “DO” have access to remote Sattalight imagery, so either way, you must be capable of this permitting you have the free will to leave & return as you wish.
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Curious unregistered posted 13 December 2000 19:03
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TT_O, an easy example (or proof) would be to video tape the jump to 1975 and give the video recorder and tape to your self (the you that has already been there/just arrived). That way you don’t have to jump back and fourth. The video tape and recorder would then be available to you now. you could send the tape to someone (when you leave, we don’t need any more time-loops).That way there is no danger of divergence in this time-line. Just a thought.
Do you believe in the lord Jesus Christ as your personal savior?
Would it be safe to assume that the substance of time itself might be classified as the sum of two equal opposite forces acting in direct cancellation?
If the person or persons responsible for the development of time travel technologies were posting on this sight would you let them know that they were or are responsible. If so would you do so directly or would you hint it only. Or would you use a third option that is to be careful not to say anything that would point out the person or persons responsible neither to the persons responsible themselves nor to the other persons that are on this forum?
In short will you say something a coded message that the person or persons responsible only will be able to pick up on or recognize to know that they are the ones responsible for the development of the technologies.
It can be anything that the person or persons will recognize as indisputable evidence not as your being valid but as them being the ones responsible for the development?
If you are not willing to answer this please just be straight forward about this and answer that you are unwilling to let the persons no who they are.
If you have any questions as to my identity ask pamela for she knows who I am and is free to oblige you the information. If you wish to answer this privately even if the answer is no fill free to e-mail me at rgrunt@yahoo.com . I believe that is all the questions I have for know please have a good trip back and thanks for visiting our time line it has been an honor. On behalf of us all I welcome you to return any time you wish. Goodluck and Godspeed. Live long and live well.
sincerely,
Lcpl Edwin Gary Schasteen U.S.M.C. Active
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Pamela Member posted 13 December 2000 23:52
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(Here are Timetraveler_0’s questions to everyone on the forum that he sent to me. )
TTO:
Sure thing, here are your questions. my answers follow.
sincerely,
pamela
Dear Pamela,
In my last posting, I said I would come up with questions of my own and send them to you to post. I would appreciate it if you would do that and answer them yourself. I would like to include the opinions of the people I have met in my report when I return home.
Thanks for the help.
[1] According to the Constitution, who do you think has the final word on choosing a President and why? [2] Do you think the Electoral College should be continued? [3] Why do you think the Bill of Rights was written? [4] What is your opinion of the second amendment to the Bill of Rights? [5] Does anyone know what industry is the largest US political contributor? [6] Does anyone know who owns the majority of the solar power research and development companies? [7] Imagine you have all the money and power you desire. What do you see yourself doing? [8] What is the longest distance you ever ran and/or walked at one time without stopping? [9] What is the longest period of time you went without food? [10] Do you know what Cholera is and how to avoid getting it?
TTO:
To tell you the truth politics never really interested me that much…until now. As I can see now how the corruption of it can ruin an entire nation.
So I don’t really have a lot of info in that area.
My interests were more in Medical research and other areas of science. In fact I only became interested in time-travel and quantum physics because of the many experiences I started having as I have shared some of those with you. But I will answer the best I can.(good thing I printed out the constitution and the bill of rights! )
(1. According to the Constitution, who do you think has the final word on choosing a President and why? Do you think the Electoral College should be continued?)
I think the people should have the final word on who should become president. whoever has the most votes should win. (I had to go back and add this…I think every last vote should count. absolutely none thrown out.a system should be in place to eliminate ballots that cannot be read such as if the chad is not fully pierced you should see a light blink and maybe a small beeping sound heard to redo it. I think a whole new voting system is needed.)
(3. Why do you think the Bill of Rights was written?)
To protect the rights of the people and to keep them free.
(4. What is your opinion of the second amendment to the Bill of Rights?)
I beleive it is to keep the government from becoming corrupt and taking over and enslaving the people under tyranny.
(5. Does anyone know what industry is the largest US political contributor? Does anyone know who owns the majority of the solar power research and development companies?)
sorry, I dont know the answer to these two questions.
(7. Imagine you have all the money and power you desire. What do you see yourself doing?)
Hmmm, Im not really a power, money hungry person. but if I had more money my heart will still be in helping other people. The greatest joy is knowing you’ve made a difference in someone elses life. That you played a part in creating a ripple of good that ripples out from generation to generation. every time you help someone you not only help them but every person they touch from that moment on. I’d probably be more free to do more research. and make new and exciting discoveries. Id spend more time doing things that mattered for eternity and not just to pay bills and taxes. Id also be more free to learn,explore and grow. as well as helping others do so.
one thing I would get though…I would DEFINETELY get a new computer!! (HEEEHEE) mines a piece of crap! I could stay on longer before it crashed or freezed up on me with an error message!
(8. What is the longest distance you ever ran and/or walked at one time without stopping?)
hmmm without stopping at ALL? I dont know. I walked a 20 mile walkathon once. (I think for cerebral palsy, or muscular dystrophy) I dont think we stopped much but we stop at the little boothes they had set up along the way to get water to drink.
(9. What is the longest period of time you went without food?)
4 days.
(10. Do you know what Cholera is and how to avoid getting it?)
Cholera is an acute bacterial infection of the small intestine. The disease is caused by water and food that have been contaminated by feces of persons previously infected. The symptoms are caused by toxic substances produced by the infecting organism which mostly causes watery diarrhea and depletes the body of fluids and minerals.
How to avoid getting it? There is currently a cholera vaccine available for people traveling to areas where the infection is endemic. Other preventive measures you could take would include drinking only boiled or bottled water and eating only cooked foods.
Treatment includes administration of antibiotics to destroy the infecting bacteria and to restore the fluids and electrolytes with intravenous solutions.
sincerely,
pamela
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 14 December 2000).] IP: Logged
Shadow unregistered posted 14 December 2000 10:01
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If an advertisement is a snow job then public education is a fullblown blizzard. We are for example tought in high school that there are *THREE* branches of government. There are *FOUR* branches of government in the US. The fourth being “We the People*. To say that that fact gets “glossed over” would be quite the understatement. Every citizen of the US is an official part of the the Official Government. HOWEVER we get to vote only once every two years and it seems that even then our overlings have a bit too much trouble “counting” the votes.
What was the catch word last election? “Disenfranchised”. Don’t they friggen wish. The People will be heard from…..sooner or later.
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TimeMaster 1a Member posted 14 December 2000 10:54
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There is an article in Discover magazine that express physicist Julian Barbour theorizes of time. Anyone searching for an understanding of the true nature of time would do well to read this article. Barbour is a theoretical physics that has devoted nearly 40 years to the study of time. There are also links to his home page at discover.com, look under current issue.
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Shadow unregistered posted 14 December 2000 21:13
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Question #7 What would I do with plenty of money & power? First I build a bomb shelter, then think about it.
Oh yeah, TT-0, just supposing I do have a scar on my left leg, *exactly* where would it be located? And wouldn’t my cousins’ brother just be another cousin?
You got me on the pocket change. If one were not trying to prove anything I guess they would have left their wallet in the future. But doesn’t that mean that you would have to bring some antique money back here with you? Like when I go to France I can buy Franks when I get there. But if one were to exchange 2036 dollars for 2000 dollars ….. well lets just say they wouldn’t be going anywhere for a while.
Ok, so gold is gold and that would solve the exchange problem.
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Earthship Junior Member posted 15 December 2000 02:26
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TT 0
Time – I don’t believe it actually exists. Or rather, it exists as a series of “now moments” for eternity (that’s a paradox if i ever saw one).
My question is; SHOULD we try to avoid this pending calamity (ww3) in our future? It seems that to bring about true change, some growing pains are needed to be experienced.
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Dr Light unregistered posted 16 December 2000 02:48
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To- Trintius
…..Damn straight…!!!
(laughs)
Operation Domination is in action!!
P.S—-To any American posting here…
Exactly how many Americans voted for the president out of the entire U.S.A?
Thanks for your…(ahem)…”time”
Dr.P.Light
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Pamela Member posted 16 December 2000 03:56
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Hey! Hows come nobody but me has taken the time to answer timetraveler_0’s questions?
Do you really think that is fair?
He has tried to answer all of our questions.
he only asked ten. we have asked him alot.
shadow answered one.
sincerely,
pamela
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djayr42 Member posted 16 December 2000 17:08
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Some answers for TT_0:
[1] According to the Constitution, who do you think has the final word on choosing a President and why?
I would say that the senate could use article 1 section 3 and appoint a president pro tem. or they can use the 20th amendment section 3. this could have been used in the recent case and a run off election could have been done.
[2] Do you think the Electoral College should be continued?
Yes, it can disagree with the popular vote. I thought the popular vote was more democratic.
[3] Why do you think the Bill of Rights was written?
To preserve order and protect the people and to give them a sense of participation in the formation of policy in government.
[4] What is your opinion of the second amendment to the Bill of Rights?
It seems as though I suffer from being myopic as well, the right to bear arms is all I ever heard. I think it has been taken out of context as an excuse to have a gun and do anything you want with it. I think there should be some sort of responsibility amendment.
[5] Does anyone know what industry is the largest US political contributor?
I thought it was the tobacco industry.
[6] Does anyone know who owns the majority of the solar power research and development companies?
Other major power companies, P.G.+E, Con Edison. Dow Chemical also is in there.
[7] Imagine you have all the money and power you desire. What do you see yourself doing?
Two things. Manufacturing electric cars – the right way. Research in my own lab.
[8] What is the longest distance you ever ran and/or walked at one time without stopping?
Along time ago, 15 miles – a walk-a-thon for muscular dystrophy. More recently, 1 mile to and from work. I like to see the stars in the early morning while going to work
[9] What is the longest period of time you went without food?
7 days, just to see if I could. 24 hours no water no food, 168 hours no sleep. Not in that order and not all at once 🙂
[10] Do you know what Cholera is and how to avoid getting it?
Not sure on this one. I think it has something to do with un-purified water. You would need to boil the water or add a purifying agent to it.
Hows that Pam? :-))
[This message has been edited by djayr42 (edited 16 December 2000).] IP: Logged
Pamela Member posted 16 December 2000 21:04
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djayr42,
Ok,.. I feel a little better now. )
-pamela
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Trintius unregistered posted 16 December 2000 23:10
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quote:
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Originally posted by Dr Light
Exactly how many Americans voted for the president out of the entire U.S.A?
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Shouldn’t be ‘how many Americans voted for the correct president
Amazing country though, they’ve proved –
– They can’t design ballot papers
– They can’t read ballot papers
– They can’t use ballot papers
– They can’t count
– They don’t want to count
– They file law suits against each other because they can’t count
– It takes them 2 months to elect a head of state
– Their head of state can’t read ballot papers or count
– etc etc etc
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Time02112 Member posted 17 December 2000 17:21
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What ever happened to “Exentuate The Positive” ??
Frankly, I’ve heard enough negativity as to what we “Cannot” do, or what others have “Failed” to do. Why not discuss what we “Can” do, or what we can attempt to do that may lead to success in spite of all these failures?
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Pamela Member posted 17 December 2000 20:24
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Trintius:
America may have some problems ,as all countries do, but its still a great country. its a beautiful country. I always liked this popular song:
“I am proud to be an American
where atleast I know Im free
and I honor those that fought
to give that right to me.
And I’d gladly stand up next to them
and defend her still today,
There aint no country like it,
God bless the USA!”
Its unethical to down someone elses country infront of them. Almost everybody is proud of their own countries. no matter what has happened in the past.Iam sure you are proud of Australia. Changes may need to be made here but I still love America.
I agree with you Time02112 I would much rather think on the positive.
sincerely,
pamela
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Shadow unregistered posted 17 December 2000 20:40
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TT-0
I think you know very well the answers to the questions you have asked. You just want to guage the quality of our replies, or just remind us that we SHOULD be up to speed on our constitutional rights and responsibilities.
A young person should want to survive and live for better days ahead. At some point, however, an older person will realize, especially in the face of disaster, that better days are NOT on the horizon…….ever. What you are forcasting for 95% of the present population is 20 years of hell followed by survivors in the rubble. I’ve already put in my 40 year shift of work and worry. Why should we fret over politics on our way to slaughter? Isn’t that like telling the Captain of the Titanic, that all he has to do to save the ship is to back up really fast after the collision?
It was obvious 5 to 10 YEARS ago that we’ve been SOLD OUT. For us, the game is over. I should offer an excuse for apathy? It should do for a reason at least. Actually TT-O, maybe in you we can see that eventually SOMEBODY finds their friggin guts and puts an end to the madness.
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Pamela Member posted 17 December 2000 23:38
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Don’t give up shadow. even in the midst of caos there is always hope. our end doesnt have to be like his end.
there are some people even as we speak that are actively making a time machine.
If this outcome for us would actually be true we have time on are side now.
the outcome of this time is UNKNOWN.
If there is one timetraveler.. there are many.
we can change the future, Shadow.
next comes the brave souls that are willing to try.
as he said when he uses his machine that going to another time line or dieing is both equally accepted.
How brave are we? I am not afraid of dieing.
I have done it before.
When the time comes….I will go.
I will be willing to go and make it right.
[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 18 December 2000).] IP: Logged
Dr Light unregistered posted 18 December 2000 01:23
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To Trintius,
You do not realize how long i laughed after reading that post but let me assure you I found it…. mildly amusing.
Thank you.
I will be back with more questions for T-T0 later in the week
Dr.P.Light
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Fast Member posted 19 December 2000 09:53
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for all we know,it was TT-0 who indirectly started the war.perhaps the TT-0 who traveled to HIS timeline was captured and they assimilated his General Electric Time Machine which spurred the war?
when did he say the war started,btw.
Fast Out
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Shadow unregistered posted 19 December 2000 11:28
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Pamela,
Thanks for the encouraging words. I do lean to the dark side. It comes from hours, days, and years of “partial successes”.
I’m sorry to hear that you keep dieing all over the place. Fortunately I haven’t had a lot of practice at it lately. But do keep up the good work, you are the heart & soul of this board. I rank no higher than jestser and deservedly so.
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Pamela Member posted 19 December 2000 15:12
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Shadow,
I know you are much more than that! I have read your postings on this forum. They are very intelligent and insightful.
I don’t keep dying over and over but I have had a near death experience. And it has erased my fear of death. I know there is much more to this world than what we can see.
sincerely,
pamela
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Pamela Member posted 20 December 2000 01:24
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I think it was interesting as I was reading my NEWSWEEK I received today on page 55. in the article “36 days:The Fallout” were these words in a box amongst all the little boxes of pictures.
“After this story, what could come next to keep the spoiled media beast interested? civil war? ”
just had to share that with you.
sincerely,
pamela
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Fast Member posted 20 December 2000 19:50
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last night i felt terrible,and had a fever.i fell asleep at 9PM and slept until 2PM this afternoon.
during my sleep,i had a dream of me,in my English Class.my english teacher brought her child to school.her child had been a government experiment gone wrong.they had tried to combine oranges and a baby to make an orange baby.her baby had orange hair with a blue stripe down the middle,and had orange skin and orange-blue spiral eyes.my grandmother was also in the dream and she said we had all came from potatos anyway.my mother was there too and she said ‘why are there still potatos here if we came from them,and why would we be eating them?’
then i woke up…
is it possible to have acid flashbacks while your asleep??
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mokrie dela Member posted 21 December 2000 01:44
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Yes
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DaViper unregistered posted 21 December 2000 04:00
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“Paradox”, as an English word, has it’s origins in Latin and Greek.
But alas, it is still just a word in any language, regardless of how it is spoken, ancient or modern. And thus a verbal utterance that represents the conveyance of a concept. As all words are.
Generally, it refers to the “idea” of the existence of a problem that has no solution.
But again alas, this is nothing but an invention of the mind of man. Nothing that actually occurs in the Universe.
There are no paradoxes in the Universe.
The so called “grandfather” paradox has not, does not, and cannot ever occur simply because the situation that defines it is not possible in the first place. There is no past where/when your “grandfather” is “alive” for you to ever encounter. Any more than there is a future where your “grandson” travels back from to encounter you.
If there is “Time Travel”, it requires much more sophisticated concepts than this simple non-existant “problem”.
And…
The so called “twins” paradox is actually not a paradox at all once one understands the idiosyncrasies of Relativity. Many think they do, but few actually do. Those who consider the “twins” paradox to actually BE a paradox, are among those who don’t.
Hint: Think about what constitutes a “year”, as opposed to watching the hands of your wristwatch move. Remember, “year” is again a word that conveys the concept of a single revolution of the Earth around the Sun.
Both “twins, the Earthbound one AND the travelling one will still have lived in a Universe where the Earth went around the Sun the SAME number of times.
The traveler’s BIOLOGICAL clock would run slower, as do physical clocks under the circumstances, but the Earth will have orbited the Sun the SAME number of times from BOTH of their points of view! Even while the traveler’s watch ran slower.
Time dilation, as a proven effect of differing relative velocities may be an unusual idiosyncracy inherent in the properties of relativity, but…
There is no paradox here.
And it most certainly does not constitute Time travel in and of itself.
There is no paradox ANYWHERE in the Universe for that matter.
How could there be?
The very concept is itself absurd. A mind game. A modernist mythology. Right up there with Jupiter governing the Universe from Mt. Olympus, or Noah’s Ark.
You believe in the “Great Flood” perhaps. Gee, where did all the water come from? (Descended from nowhere out of space?) Where did it go? (Evaporated back into nothingness into space?) Do you have any idea how much water it would take to cover the Earth up to the top of Mt. Everest and beyond? Or how thick the cloud cover would have to be that contained the water that constituted the rain that had to have fallen to make a flood THAT big?
About as much as it takes to drown the idea that “paradoxes” actually exist, from my calculation.
TimeTravel_0 unregistered posted 21 December 2000 10:59
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DaViper
Very interesting argument but I have a couple of questions. You described the word paradox as, “…it refers to the “idea” of the existence of a problem that has no solution.” Actually, the #1 definition I read in the American Heritage Dictionary is “…a seemingly contradictory statement that may nonetheless be true”,
Also, what exactly is your definition of “time travel”? I was taught that time travel is strictly a local observation that can only be measured by the experience of an individual or single particle. Under that definition, the “twin paradox” (time dilation due to acceleration or gravity) and even sleeping can be considered time travel. You appear to be arguing against dematerialization and/or spacelike trips under the limits of special relativity in a single worldline.
I do agree that the “grandfather paradox” is not possible simply because the classic problem is presented as an observer’s issue magnified to a universal issue. Your statements about observation are correct when you isolate the experiences to a single worldline. However, the reason there are no paradoxes is because the universe doesn’t care how we react to its handy-work. In a Universe made up of infinite worldliness (superuniverse), everything is possible and has a 100% probability, therefore…no paradoxes.
“You believe in the “Great Flood” perhaps. Gee, where did all the water come from?”
I believe the explanation for the “great flood” stories originate with the changes that occurred near the Mediterranean at the end of the last ice age. Even on this world-line, there is a great deal of evidence to support the fact that sea levels did change radically in isolated areas worldwide. I also heard someplace that if the ice mass on Antarctica melted today, sea level worldwide would rise about 100 feet. I’m not exactly sure that’s true but still… Mt. Everest might be a bit of a stretch.
I do however agree with you that there are no physical paradoxes but for the opposite reasoning.
Peace to you also.
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mokrie dela Member posted 21 December 2000 18:42
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Also flooding could easily occur with monsoon rains lasting anywhere past 5 days in a region of low ground. And don’t forget in those days, “the world” was defined as that small region only. These people had never been to Switzerland! (Hi Time, missed you you ole rattle snake.)
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Time02112 Member posted 22 December 2000 12:06
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Anyone ever heard of “Pangia”
it referrs to when the earth, or “Gia” was once pne singl large body of land.
when I find more info on this latter, I will edit this post, and include the links. meanwhile if anyone else wishes to make any additional comments about pangia, and how the water vovered the remaining 3/4 of the land mass around the geosphere, please by all means, share with us what you have to offer.
What do you suppose would happen during the next “Great Flood” now that the former Pangia is broken into the current continetal land structures of today’s earth?
~just a thought~
p)’i4q4
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mokrie dela Member posted 22 December 2000 15:28
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That’s right Time, I also heard that originally the continent of Africa was connected to America by a connecting land mass. I believe that’s part of the Atlantis theory, that it was the connecting land. I know there are some incredible things underwater off of Bimini. (can’t spell it or find it) There are huge Greek columns with huge hands at the top holding some sort of ball. Also what looks like roads made of hand cut flat stones that would break a fork lift. What I wouldn't give to time travel to before that sunk and see it it all it’s glory. It’s must have been beautiful beyond comprehension.
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Eighth of multiple Posts
This post is the eighth of a series of posts related to John Titor. The other posts are;
Commentary
Again, there are elements of sublime truth in the words of “John Titor”, as well as evidence of a hoax. Certainly, some of what he said rings true to my experiences in MAJestic, but the elements of falsehoods are disturbing to me.
As it stands, he is the only other person who is able to suggest and describe a system of operation, purpose and objective of all the many people and vehicles that seemingly pop in and out of our reality. This alone has merit. Thus, this is why he is placed herein in this blog.
Conclusion
Our reality is not what we think it is. I am not the only person who has disclosed that there are others, and other organizations that can enter and leave our reality at will. Another person who made this claim went by the name John Titor.
Only where as, I claim to be part of MAJestic and was employed as part of human sentience management, John Titor claimed to be a person who was part of another world-line. Together, we both claim that the MWI is real, and we utilize it to perform dimensional egress for our own purposes.
I claim that it is a tool that is used to manage human sentience evolution.
John Titor claims that he utilized the time variable to conduct acquisition activities in the past.
He claimed that on that world-line, the United States was fundamentally different after a rapid series of events in the late 1990’s. He claimed that he needed to perform some acquisition of certain technical devices through the use of the time-variance option in dimensional travel.
Take Aways
John Titor claimed to be a time traveler.
He utilized dimensional travel to move in and out of the baseline reality.
As such, he visited our world-line to acquire some technology needed on his world-line.
That technology was produced in “our” past. Thus the idea that it involved “time travel”.
MAJestic Related Posts – Training
These are posts and articles that revolve around how I was recruited for MAJestic and my training. Also discussed is the nature of secret programs. I really do not know why the organization was kept so secret. It really wasn’t because of any kind of military concern, and the technologies were way too involved for any kind of information transfer. The only conclusion that I can come to is that we were obligated to maintain secrecy at the behalf of our extraterrestrial benefactors.
MAJestic Related Posts – Our Universe
These particular posts are concerned about the universe that we are all part of. Being entangled as I was, and involved in the crazy things that I was, I was given some insight. This insight wasn’t anything super special. Rather it offered me perception along with advantage. Here, I try to impart some of that knowledge through discussion.
Enjoy.
MAJestic Related Posts – World-Line Travel
These posts are related to “reality slides”. Other more common terms are “world-line travel”, or the MWI. What people fail to grasp is that when a person has the ability to slide into a different reality (pass into a different world-line), they are able to “touch” Heaven to some extent. Here are posts that cover this topic.
John Titor Related Posts
Another person, collectively known by the identity of “John Titor” claimed to utilize world-line (MWI egress) travel to collect artifacts from the past. He is an interesting subject to discuss. Here we have multiple posts in this regard.
From the late 1990’s until around 2001, the Internet was “rocked” by the sudden appearance and subsequent disappearance of a Mr. John Titor. This person claimed to be a “time traveler” by using inter-dimensional travel. Here in this post we have the John Titor final transcripts.
Now, that being stated, all of this was rapidly dismissed as a hoax, in unity, by all the major debunking organizations, and his posts mysteriously disappeared off the Internet. Since then, all the sources that he posted on all found that their files related to John Titor were all corrupted and could not be reclaimed.
That was the case for over a decade.
Then, in 2014, a number of private individuals managed to piece together independently saved dialogs relating to John Titor. They constructed numerous websites that hosted these reclaimed dialogs, and posted them on the Internet for others to view. Here we have the John Titor final transcripts.
Presented here are recovered posts from the Internet collected in 2014. It is not known if any posts have been deleted or altered. They are presented as they were found by the author. This group contains a significant amount of back and forth banter regarding his documents and photos. It also includes his farewell post. Enjoy.
Important Warning
The information within this series of posts are speculative. I have no factual information if this John Titor is what he claimed to be. It is presented herein as the only (or maybe, one of the only) sources that claim to be associated with the vehicles that pop in and out of our reality from time to time.
He was, as far as I know, never associated with MAJestic in any way.
Original John Titor Posts – Part 7 – Transcripts C
Here are the original John Titor posts from the Post2Post Art Bell Forum. Obtained from HERE. This is the second group of the john titor post history.
John Titor dialog is in normal text in brown color, text by others are italicized.
When referencing other non-Titor questions, green color is used.
Purple color is for non-related text.
Metallicman comments are in red color.
Metallicman corrected spelling and some punctuation to make the text easier to read and understand. For unedited text, please refer to the source.
I also added some commentary to liven things up somewhat. Enjoy.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-19-2001 11:38 PM
Tom,
actually I noticed this difference and several others you have not mentioned when I first saw the diagrams and questioned John about it here is his response below from an email:“If you take another look at the pages you can see that the first one is much smaller too and there are two punch holes at the top of the second one.Since I was getting complaints about the quality of the picture I decided to use the larger ones which are a compilation of the technical drawings in a packet attached to the unit. The cut-a-way is also a bit different from the unit I have as it shows the interior of the prototype.I haven’t looked closely at all the documents and I suppose there may be other differences too. In fact, there is another version of the same drawing in question which has a side profile on it and it’s not in the manual either. I would imagine that may have been one of the updates.#5 still says cone. I hadn’t noticed the error in numbering before and I’ve seen others in the manual but that’s pretty typical for a military document."If you would, do me a favor and post this if someone else catches that. Actually, this is quite interesting because I suppose if it were a fraud it would be expected to be perfect. That’s fascinating and I hadn’t thought about it before.”sincerely,PamelaJavier, Where is John? probably P.A.C.K.I.N.G.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 03:04 AM
SmileI am not a time traveler.Can I apply a truth table to all this discussion?What if I said that I might be able to?What would that prove?Some of the people would believe it, some people would not believe it, some people would not care.That’s about it. That’s all that is happening anytime people get together to discuss anything from the past or the future.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-20-2001 03:25 AM
Javier,“P.S. Sure, where should we all take our vacation? Me, you, and John “I wanna be a Time Traveler someday” Titor, wanna go off to?”How about the stoneage? Wanna take a ride???hehheheheh-pamela
Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-20-2001 06:35 AM
Oh! The misdirected rage of a 21 year old. Javier, put your efforts into something worthwhile and you’ll go far in life. Don’t let this time of your life be wasted smashing things.
Posted by James R.Quayle III on 03-20-2001 06:40 AM
AngryI do not need to believe in John titor’s claims too say,Javier your a good intelligent skeptic,But your also the type that will get left in the dust when something big does happen,
You remind me of the neighbors who run inside here in Newport Beach when Ufo’s fly over the beach,they run inside saying,NO ,NO I see it but it CAN”t be real!
I have read all the replies on this **** time travel post from the beginning,and at the end ,I find you a bitter dude.
In your universe view the world must be a boring place.
Sure,Time Travel is not true,Javier,now go play while me and my friends go back in time and make sure your Mom and dad never met,ha,ha.
Skepticism is good but ,your little barbs flown over and over on this post seems bitter,You probably have never experienced Any odd phenomena?
That is how it seems,so sad for you,open your eyes and The Wierd will appear.
Happy Trails John Titor,where ever you go,you made me and others think,not necesarily believe ,but what a gift of thought.Javier resign to your cubicle,horse blinded view ,how non-unique you are Javier.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-20-2001 06:48 AM
Cooljust grab the shades and hop in the Chevy to “take a ride”.Pamela: Wouldn’t you all look a tad out of place in the stone age? Seems that trip would definitely blow ones cover, but who would care. Just a bunch of grunting hairy but naked human-like ancestors. I can see it, a Chevy pick up, probably black or dark blue in color appears in stone age florida…isnt it wet? NO matter, its a chevy. 🙂 The only problem is there is room for 3 in that extra cab and a tight squeeze at that.Javier: You would be sitting behind John. That would be an interesting development. If John is a TT, he is still human. How would you handle that morally? Take away his toy? j/kThe stone age would be a drag I think. Unknown diseases, yuk. Might as well be a cow and go to England. Ever thought of say….the 1920’s. Florida would be there…and definitely dry. Besides the ’20’s would be interesting. Period cash? Who cares. Does not seem that money is all that important in Time Travel.Having Fun.Phil
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 06:58 AM
Tom: Last week I was looking at the images that JT had uploaded onto MSN and noticed a simple typo in the operations manual page showing a diagram of the Tipler sinusoid field produced by his device where in the diagram, item 10.
The (Negative Time Event Horizon) had been transposed as item 11 in the diagram, though the item value was printed correctly in the legend. I didn’t think anything of it until I looked at the same page as found on Ricks site and saw that the typo was gone from the page.
I’m not trying to play pixel person or anything, but unexplained edits to the images that have been posted do lead me to wonder what other changes are being made. (Then again, a time machine might just turn out to be a copywriters best friend!)Tom – For the record, those pictures were pulled from Doc’s site about 3-4 weeks ago, about the time I got involved in this discussion. I’ve had copies of them since then, and have made no modifications. Are you telling me that you found a discrepancy between the ones I have and some OTHER pictures? If so, please give me the URLS where you located them.Thanks(Edited & added) – I just read Pamela’s comments on the photos, and sure it is plausible that he had multiple copies of various diagrams. She is also accurate in her statement about military documents being full of errors. I deal with technical orders and other such documents all the time, and they ALWAYS have misprints, typos, misspellings and mislabeled diagrams. Regardless of how much money is being spent on a government project, the documentation is only as good as the cheapest tech-writer they can hire. Remember – LOWEST BIDDER!Rick[Edited by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 at 07:14 AM]
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-20-2001 06:59 AM
ArrowHi James.I am not defending Javier, nor am I putting him down, but your last post needs a clarification…in fairness.You wrote to Javier:“You probably have never experienced Any odd phenomena?”I cannot be specific, but he has claimed to experience odd phenomena. Some sort of Temporal condition. Impressions I think. Whatever the case, I did not figure him to be a dry non-experiencing figure. At times he has seemed a “tad” bigoted to time travelers. Perhaps he will expand that for clarification.Not a slam James, I saw an error and am pointing it out. The pages Javier stated his beliefs and experiences were fairly early in the thread and included his web site link that does clearly state his mission.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 07:09 AM
John – Pamela – whoever can get John to listen…I have offered my services as an independent viewer/observer of the departure. I can and will make arrangements to fly to Florida with video taping equipment and some camera gear. However, I need a little lead time to get the equipment to me. Olav, the S4 Data base web master has offered basically unlimited space on the web site, as well as digitizing the video – making it free for folks to see.I do not believe that making a video “for profit” is going to convince anyone that anything occurred. Worse, turning such a video over to anyone other than say, Art Bell himself, or independent (and skeptical) observers is just plain silly. Anyone with their hands in the “belief” portion of the video might not do as good a job as I might, since I am not really on the “believing” side.Now… I’ve not had a reply from John at this point, but if his departure is imminent, I still require time to make arrangements for equipment, flight, car rental etc. This would be coming out of my pocket.That also means I won’t be helping anyone hoax anything.Now… John… are you going to take me up on this offer or not? If I don’t see it first hand – I doubt a video will make it any more real.What do the rest of you say?Rick[Edited by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 at 07:18 AM]
Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-20-2001 07:49 AM
WinkI have stated on more than one occasion that I would find it very interesting to have John’s departure recorded, and I have asked John in this forum if he still planned on doing so. I do not believe I was ever directly responded to.From the basis of comments made in this thread, I view Rick as an open-minded skeptic who would appear to have strong credibility. He has made an offer more than once to document this event at his own expense and I, for one, hope John takes him up on his offer.What do you say, John? We are all awaiting your response.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-20-2001 07:59 AM
Red faceThat John, just a few days ago stated he was going to have the video done, but was not intending a 3rd party to be there. Indeed this raises the eyebrow, but even if it is a hoax, it is still interesting and I am curious what might happen in the video. I think there was talk of the field surrounding the mechanism, that it might disrupt or corrupt the video if taken too close in distance. I would love for Rick to be a third party assignee for video. He has credibility.I know that is not what you desire John, but contact Rick. He has the means to handle this and is a skeptic. Besides, according to your description, this world line differs from yours. No harm would come to your family on your world line..that is IF Rick were corrupt, which I sincerely do not think is the case. Perhaps worth considering?
Posted by Alexander A.Shpilman on 03-20-2001 09:46 AM
The history John Titor, resemblances to me a April Fools’ joke of the students.
1) The style of thinking is similar to style of thinking of the American of 1990. And plot of a film-hit: When all people of the Earth catch illness a “cow rage”. Or such as – what will be, if there will be overturning magnetic poles of the Earth?
2) The history of the people abounds “surprises”. But we to them quickly get accustomed. In this history there are no surprises. There is nothing is paradoxical new.
3) How to distinguish micro Kerr black holes from electron, proton or neutron? The difference will be in mass? It microsingularites. How it to make macrosingularites? I think, it is necessary better to know thin structure of a matter.
4) It is necessary to distinguish a “global line” from “world-line”. There is an analogy: many people go on the rope bridge. The bridge is swing from a wind and movement of the people. The rope bridge is a “global line” matters (body of the man). “World-line” is a trajectory of movement of the man in space on the rope bridge. Obviously, a “Global line” from “world-line” are connected among themselves, but they differ.
If I would be TTer, I would study properties of a “global line”. I would study, how the change of events in the past (events at my doubles in the past), my opportunity influences to change events in the present time.
Certainly, it is difficult.
But it is possible to begin from study of a situation of planets and stars, earthquakes and hurricanes, in various temporary flows. Then to study the moments of occurrence of scientific opening and moments of creation of masterpieces of art, and their difference in various temporary flows.In detail about time and OVERTAME look in http://www.pmicro.kz/MISC/UFL/Almanach/2n00/OVERTIMEa.htmand http://www.pmicro.kz/MISC/UFL/Almanach/1n01/OVERTIMEa.htm
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 09:53 AM
I have a few more pictures apparently from John now, that we will post on the anomalies site as soon as I can get in touch with my webby guy out there in CA.I have examined them (the pics of the machine itself) and have not changed my opinion on the machine – it “looks” real enough from a military / government perspective. Even the manuals appear to be what they are purported to be.One thing to note, which I can not remember if I mentioned before – and I am sure no one else has at this point, is a yellow object in the upper part of the picture of the machine in the vehicle.
The yellow device is a geiger counter.
I’m familiar with THAT machine specifically – not just gieger counters, but THAT model. I’ve used it. I carried two of them in tactical weather gear in the 1970’s and 80’s.
I also used one of those devices extensively during my stay at the White House from 1989-1992 during training at a facility outside of DC, where we trained for NBC (nuclear/biological/chemical) warfare. More specifically I used them during training for “shelter management” where we each played President and others.
This is a close up view of the apparently the same make and model of Geiger Counter as used by John Titor in his photographs. According to him, this device is necessary in a post World War III reality. But, more than that. This device would also be used to measure radiation from the time-travel machine. It an instrument used for detecting and measuring ionizing radiation of all types. The radiation dose rate, displayed in a unit such as the sievert which is normally used for measuring gamma or X-ray dose rates.
Anyway, that is a real device.
If you look carefully, you will see an older “CD” or Civil Defense sticker on the side. The device is rather old though – probably built in the mid to late 70s and was an important piece of gear in my weather systems and shelters I took care of in those days. It could have come from old stocks of military gear (in 2013 or later) or it could have come from surplus store in 1999 or 2000. Not sure.I did want to point out what it was though.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 09:59 AM
Yes, I think Rick ought to film this, but John has already said that this may not do any good.From the book “Galaxies” by Tim Ferris, yes I know its getting old, but then, why is anyone who deals with the structure of cosmology still are leaning this way:One of a number of sophisticated cosmological models that have been constructed within the broad purview of the big-bang account of cosmic history, this theory, proposed by J. Richard Gott III of Princeton University, postulates the existence of not one universe but three. It envisions that the big bang gave rise not only to our universe, where matter predominates over antimatter and time runs forward, but a second universe where antimatter predominates and time moves backward, as well as a tachyon universe where everything moves faster than the velocity of light. Our universe and the antimatter universe are segregated in terms of time. Both are segregated from the tachyon universe in terms of space, since the tachyons in the first instant of creation fled beyond the light cones of all observers in both the matter and antimatter universes.The Gott cosmology is a masterpiece of symmetry without being dictatorial about it: it predicts, for instance, that there should be traces of contamination of our universe by antimatter (as has been verified by observation) and by tachyons (as has not). Whatever likelihood we might care to assign to its validity, in this combination of symmetry and imperfection the Gott model is redolent of nature’s style.Now are you sure that you can not communicate with another you in the antimatter universe?
Now what if this is proved. It may prove that God (she) has put you all over the place, and in many different places for one reason, you may have the means to destroy yourself with science of the future.
She(God) has wiped your butt all over the place already, now who won besides (God)?We all win, maybe, this way.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 10:11 AM
God may be angry as John proposes, but still, I think it is just humans that are doing the dirty deed, and humans are the ones that are angry. This has nothing to do with God, so if this happens, blame the humans, not God.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 10:19 AM
This theory leaves at least two Johns running around, and maybe a lot of johns running around.(Alright, it a joke, johns. You are all the other johns running around.)
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-20-2001 10:20 AM
Rick,Good observation on the device. I’ve been looking through surplus gear sites on the web to find a similar device for sale.The two yellow caution tapes on the device are misaligned. Sloppy workmanship.
According to this comment, the warning tape is misaligned, and that is evidence of shoddy workmanship. I don’t know about you (dear reader), but the tape looks fine to me.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 12:02 PM
Albert: Yes, I think Rick ought to film this, but John has already said that this may not do any good.I am not sure I understood your piece there Albert. Are you saying that because someone else films/video tapes the departure, we might not see it on tape?I’m not sure what that has to do with antimatter. If John were an anti-matter John, he could not have come here in the first place. One doesn’t have to meet ones-self to destroy oneself when made of antimatter. One mere must contact ANY matter. Matter and antimatter will obliterate one another no matter what form it is in when it contacts.Darby: The two yellow caution tapes on the device are misaligned. Sloppy workmanship.Which is pretty much normal for government equipment. Doesn’t prove anything though. I have equipment that is government gear that has similar labels. None of them are aligned.As far as a “good call” well, I’m not sure about that, I was just stating what I know to be facts from personal experience. I know, for instance that the yellow geiger counters were standard gear for fallout shelters for military personnel in certain places. I also know that almost NO ONE knew anything about them, how to operate, read or change the batteries in them. I don’t even remember the type of batteries they took but if I remember right, they were C cells (but they might have been 6v lantern batteries too – I simply can not recall that part). I will never forget using them though. The government cost back then was around 900-1200 bucks. Something similar today will run you 750 or 800 commercially, but they aren’t as sturdy as the good old yellow ones were.I’ve been doing some careful examination of the pictures. They simply aren’t high enough quality to be able to get details though. <shrugs>
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 02:05 PM
I am just saying that John is the one that said that it may prove nothing further, that the pictures will not help anyone believe him to be a TT or not, if they do not already believe.I would like to see the pictures, though.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 02:30 PM
Albert;I see your point. But… it will prove it to ME. That’s what *I* care about. Call me selfish if you like, but I could care less if anyone else believes or not. I don’t care if you do, or Javier believes or disbelieves.I am trying to show 1) Either fraud or 2) John is a time traveler.If someone goes and actually is present as a witness besides his own family or personal friends, it won’t matter then because they can not fake the photography, nor pull “magic tricks” – smoke and mirrors, whatever you want to call it.I consider myself qualified as an observer for several reasons.First and foremost, I’m extremely interested in the outcome of this exercise.Secondly, I’m a skeptic. For a skeptic to see something with their own eyes, is PROOF POSITIVE to a skeptic. Whether or not YOU believe the skeptic is up to you. If you went I might believe you. If Javier goes, I would definately believe him. Personally, I do not trust Javier to go without doing something to disrupt things. He has made it very clear he has a problem – moral or otherwise, with time travelers.
[Not true. I once took a skeptic to visit my first wife's cousin who had this weird ability to bend spoons. He did not believe.
So we gave him the opportunity to take a spoon from his own kitchen, and give it to the spoon-bending cousin. There, right in front of his eyes, inches away, she rubbed the spoon and it started to bend and twist and deform.
He still did not believe.
To this day, he still is trying to come up with "how" she was able to pull off the "trick". Skeptics tend to defend the reality that they know, and are often very closed to new ideas. - Metallicman.]Thirdly, I’m a “trained observer”. My jobs over the years, from engineer, to teacher, to computer ‘guru’ to storm chaser more than qualifies me to do the job of objectively observing an experiment and giving a truthful and objective report on the subject, no matter what the subject entails.Fourthly, I’ve heard no one else offer their services, their own hard earned cash or their time to do this. I have. I certainly haven’t seen Art Bell come in the forum and post his thoughts. If he had, and offered to be there, and perhaps do a live report, that would have been the best thing. I don’t think he will – for several reasons. But most importantly, it could be dangerous!Fifthly – Danger… been there, done that. I’m afraid of heights and don’t climb if I dont have to. I do have antenna towers in the back and climb them. I have to. I hate and am afraid of flying. I’ve been to 42 countries. I didn’t get there on a slow boat. I’ve been shot at many times in Central America, and also in the middle east. Nancy Reagan and Richard Nixon have chewed my ass. I’m not afraid of anything else (except spiders). I do not have to fly (cept to get there), I don’t have to climb (cept perhaps to get a good video shot), I don’t have to deal with spiders, Nancy Reagan or Richard Nixon. I DO have to get truthful video, good pictures and even perhaps an interview if John would consent to doing so. This I CAN DO.Sixthly – I consider myself a decent writer. You will get a very good report.Now… Whether you chose to believe the data that I will bring you, is up to you – and each person will have to decide. Without knowing me personally, none of you can be sure I’m not a government agent, I’m not a Russian Spy or I’m not in cahoots with John.Since I’m not any of these things, and I don’t have much else I can show you right now to prove this, you’ll have to take my word. For now.However, anyone that wants to know more about me is welcome to read up on my writing, my bio and a lot of other stuff on my web site. You can – as several people have pointed out, get a good idea of a person’s background from their writing. It might take you some time, but, the data is there. I’m not extremely private, and anyone that wants to find me, can. My “secrets” are things that I’ve done for the government and no one will get that information from me under ANY circumstances, but the rest of my life is pretty much an open book.Now… do you want to trust your intutition completely, your eyes and ears, me, John or this forum? You decide.Rick[Edited by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 at 02:34 PM]
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-20-2001 04:21 PM
Dear “FREE”,Thankyou for the “jet” link. I read all of it.yes, that was very interesting.wasn’t sure if I could use your email address to respond back to you.but I wanted to let you know I did read it all.and I will keep what you said in mind.Thankyou for being concerned.sincerely,pamela
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-20-2001 08:22 PM
The Stoneage you said huh? Nah, I was thinking more along the lines of Medieval Times. I always liked playing with Swords and fighting when I was a kid.My big brother would be the Ninja (a real ninja) and beat me up all the time. Ahh the good ole’ days .-Javier C.P.S. Mel and James. Excuse me for having a little fun here for a change. When do I ever? And when I do, I get hassled about it.You don’t know me, you don’t know what I am capable of. I have abilities and control that alot of people my age lack. Maybe once you learn to not accept life for it’s flaws, and stand up for what’s right, you’ll make something of your self.And see that I was right all along .[Edited by Javier Cortez on 03-20-2001 at 08:35 PM]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 10:53 PM
Here’s what I think of John at this point.
It really does not matter if he is a TT or not, well, it might.
John thought about some things going on and with technology and he decided that he had something to say about the future as he saw it. He came up with a story to get people interested with what he was thinking. That was: time travel may be possible in the future, if it is, and other countries found out, this may not be good. He presented it as a story to strongly interest people about what they thought about the future, if time travel becomes a reality.
He may have a three year old and wonder what kind of world he will grow up in.
I must admit that I was not really thinking in those terms, so to me it was a wake up call. You get going with school, life, and hear news but it nevers just clicks with you.
The What If?
I tend to look at the world through rose colored glasses sometimes, and that becomes too relaxed.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 11:38 PM
Here’s something I found out this year.
During the Cold War or maybe about in the ’70’s, the Russians were working on a new type of jet engine. This engine that uses, if I remember right because its not at the newscientist website anymore, ionized gases to control the engine. This means that it needs no wings, no airelons, or controls. Just by changing the ionized gas flowing around the engine, this engine is unique.
Now NASA been informed of it, and is working with it, and Russia can build a plane, not mach speed, but for transport that uses this type of engine.
It called something like “Plasma” engine.
If you like to consider the fact that this engine may be a prototype UFO, I guess it may also be something of a forerunner that could eventually be used to some effect as a UFO moves.
Consider that.
Russians are not dumb. At the BBC Talking Point, they had the question, just a few weeks ago “Is Russia a Superpower?” Now responses came from around the world, including Russians. One said that they have some bright theoretical physics students, and they have pride in their country. The answer to me is simple: Do they have nuclear weapons? Yes.
They are still a Superpower.
Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-21-2001 08:03 AM
The problem with being 21 is that no one ever takes you seriously. We all know that. You should be enjoying yourself right now. You are far too serious, intense and vindictive.
You have been raggin’ on this guy through this whole thread.
I certainly don’t know if John is for real. The one thing I do know is that this has been a great topic and that you need to lighten up and stop trying to save us all with your “Time Cop” role.
[Amen. Try editing this bilge. - Metallicman.]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-21-2001 11:45 AM
Here’s another thing, well, maybe not that important.
Harpoon IV is coming out about the end of this year or so.
The Navy people play this game. I have Harpoon II and you can download it free, I think still, at website Home of the Underdogs, I think but not sure, its underdogs.com. Well, written by Larry Bond, a Naval Officer of many years, it is about Naval Warfare. The database is well worth looking at, to view for the most part, the Navies of different nations, and type of weapons. Its the closes to having about the best unclassified weapons of war of the modern age. The new one being programmed by someone else will be more of a 3-D type Harpoon. Russians weapons are usually twice the size of US weapons and if you get hit by one, that’s about it. The US weapons usually take 2 or 3 to sink one of their submarines or ships. In any case, Russians have more subs than anything else right now, besides land warfare. The new Harpoon IV will have landings of Marines on shore. I learned a great deal about weapon systems on this planet from that computer game.
Just a thought.
That Russian engine is still a kind of jet engine. The only way it might fly, (and I am just imagining), around is put it so it swivels. Just dreaming at this point. Still more like a regular airplane. Ionized gases instead of whatever jet engines use, (air?).
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-21-2001 12:25 PM
CoolI’ll get off.
Here’s a for instance:Russian weapons — == 200 mile blast area. Russia never built a “small” weapon in their life. The US does.2000 miles by 3000 miles — size of the US about.It would take 150 Russian missiles and there would be no US.And they do not have to be accurate.So Russia would have to change their entire philosophy.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-21-2001 01:24 PM
Albert:I’ll get off.Here’s a for instance:Russian weapons — == 200 mile blast area. Russia never built a “small” weapon in their life. The US does.2000 miles by 3000 miles — size of the US about.It would take 150 Russian missiles and there would be no US.And they do not have to be accurate.So Russia would have to change their entire philosophy.Albert… what are you talking about? A “small weapon”? A “large weapon”? There is no such thing as a “200 mile blast range”. The fireball from the largest ever known thermonuclear weapon was less than 5 miles in diameter. The Russians are purported to have built a 350 megaton bomb at one point, of course, we do not know this for sure and it is rumor.Your numbers are way out of scale. I suggest you spend some time doing some research on the subject before you quote numbers. I’ll tell you where to start…http://www.janes.com/http://www.milnet.com/milnet/nukeweap/nfaq0.htmhttp://sun00781.dn.net/nuke/hew/http://www.cdi.org/issues/nukef&f/database/rusnukes.htmlhttp://www.enviroweb.org/issues/nuketesting/nukeffct/http://www.dnfsb.gov/This should get you started. You will not find anywhere in any of the data where there are 200 mile radii damage zones. Even with the worst thing the Russians can throw at the United States there might be a 7-10 mile damage radius around the blast zone.In my reserch, 20 Megatons seems to be the absolute maximum any one weapon will do. Yeah, they are bad, they are radioactive and they are gonna do some serious, serious damage to the land and perhaps even the planet. However, 200 bombs will not “obliterate” the United States.However – as I JUST finished writing last night in an article, if you’re planning on giving up now, before such a war or survival situation comes up, please – feel free to ship me your food, and weapons. I CERTAINLY will put them to good use.Rick
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-21-2001 01:32 PM
Pictures of the time machine and the manual for those who have NOT yet seen them, are located at:http://www.anomalies.nethttp://survival.anomalies.netExact URLs are as follows:
http://www.anomalies.net/time_traveler/http://survival.anomalies.net/time_travel.htmI understand there are some more, that I’ve missed and they are supposed to be sent to me shortly.Rick
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-21-2001 08:00 PM
Poor misguided Mel. You speak as if you almost knew better. Yet still you know nothing about my life, and insist that I am what you claim to be. Well I hate bragging about my self, but I see that it’s necessary. Or else you’ll continue to know nothing about me, and continue ****ing me off. So here I go…Are you a 2nd Degree black belt in Karate? (Everyone in my family knows how to defend themselves, tradition since I am a quarter Chinese, my blood demands it). Were you a League Champ in High School Wrestling? How about going through Army Basic Training? I know tough, if anything I am far from weak and like an average 21 year old.I am incredibly disciplined. I don’t wait another day to speak my mind and take action on things that are wrong.Growing up in So.Cal I’ve seen death, I’ve seen terror, and I’ve seen people taken advantage of. Maybe it’s different where you were brought up, but these kinds of things I I want to do something about them. So pardon, for taking a stand and wanting to do something about the wrong things in life. You don’t see many young people doing that, and I believe it should be encouraged, not condemned.Thank you very much;those were my 2 cents,-Javier C.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-21-2001 11:04 PM
Rick,If you have contact with Boomer please attempt to verify the elapsed time (on his internal chronometer) for his trip from 2036 to 1975. I need that data for a calculation.Two problems still unresolved:Problem #1Early on Boomer posted that the radius of effect of the time distortion field is 12 to 15 feet (Schwarzschild Radius of 4 to 5 meters). He also said that the mass of the singularities is that of a “small mountain”. I suggested 3*10^18/kg (1/2,000,000th the mass of the Earth)and he did not dispute it (though it may be smaller)…anyone see where I’m going with this?Problem #2There’s another problem with his diagrams on your site:Page #5 (C204 Tipler Sinusoid…) Item #1 shows the twin singularities in line with the x-ray venting zone.The schematic following the photos also shows the singularities in line – and in line with the driver’s seat. It seems that the x-rays are vented directly at the driver.
[Good eyes. However, the singularities each are physically adjustable using a black knob at the top of them, and they can be relocated depending on the orientation of the time-travel machine within the vehicle. - Metallicman.]I’ll post the answer to problem #1 later. Just giving everyone else a chance to do the math.Hint: R=2GM/c^2 (I posted this formula with little comment for Boomer last week. He didn’t pick up on its significance.)[Edited by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-21-2001 at 11:16 PM]
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-22-2001 12:06 AM
Rick,I do hope that you get a chance to see Boomer off. But a video won’t help prove the veracity of Boomer’s story. If what he says is true you’ll only have a video fogged by x-ray emmissions (and maybe some leukemia for yourself). If its unfogged then everything given to you to post on your site about the device is false and misleading.The last time I checked the physics I didn’t see an “on-off” switch for a black hole or any other singularity. Whether his machine is on or off the singularities continue to generate an event horizon. The singularities are contained in the black box. I have a very good idea of what the Schwarzchild Radius of the alleged micro-singularities should be. The black box lies within the event horizon. How does one photograph an object inside the event horizon from the exterior of the event horizon (in this case the driver’s window of a Chevy pick-up)?If there is an x-ray problem associated with his machine how is it that his photos aren’t fogged? And, though he’s never said that he hasn’t let anyone else come close to the machine, who took the picture of his two hands in one of the photos?
[Good questions. Easy answers. X-rays are generated during operation. Venting of X-rays are during operation. During operation a person outside of the vehcile would not see anything. The photographer would need to be inside the vehicle. If there were to be a photo taken during operation (such as the laser pointer) then the photographer would need to stand OUTSIDE of the X-ray discharge cone. - Metallicman.]
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 12:47 AM
In my opinion, I don’t believe John, A.k.a “Boomer” expected people to not believe him this close to his leave date of April 10th (his window of opportunity). I’m sure he wanted everyone to believe his story. But in-light to what Darby has shown us, and John’s unwillingness to rebuttal.
We must now see that he has forfeited his opportunity to prove us wrong (your silence only incriminates you and confirms that you are a fraud). Cause he him self is wrong. Somehow, I think Darby was an unexpected variable. I’m glad you were apart of this discussion; I take my hat off to you Darby , great job.Just something to think about… I know that some of John’s loyal subjects will continue to think he was for real. But I have never, nor have I ever wished that he were a real Time Traveler. The rest of you, shame-shame. Always answering questions for him, defending him, giving him a way out, never really letting him do it all on his own. Always sounded like Heaven’s Gate to me.Until then, I think John has sung his last song. Either that, or he’s cramming as much math, physics and logic to assist him in answering the last questions. Last chance to make people believers aye John?I expect a good answer John, if you do decide to answer . If not, that was pretty rude of you to leave without saying good-bye. Or what kind of idiots do you take us for making an excuse like that .-Javier C.
[For whatever it is worth, during 2001, when this post was written, I was busy in MAJestic. I was traversing the MWI quite adroitly. So, I find such sneers by some of these posters as both amusing and irritating.
You know, just because you cannot speak Chinese doesn't mean that there aren't people who cannot.Just because you don't know how to fly a plane, doesn't mean that no one else does. And, just because you don't know the "secrets of the universe", doesn't mean that everyone doesn't know them either. -Metallicman.]
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-22-2001 01:29 AM
Javier,What surprises me about the believers is that they apparently never really looked closely at what Boomer was telling them. Now, I don’t think he’s a bad guy – I’ve enjoyed the time (there’s that word again) we’ve spent together bantering this subject – but…Here’s who Boomer says he is (from the totality of his posts but more specifically his early posts):A civil war begins in the U.S. when he’s six years old (2004). By 2012, at age 14, he’s a member of a Florida vanguard revolutionary brigade fighting the “enemy state”. He and his military assist the former Soviet Union (Russia) with their invasion of the United States. He said, “The enemy attacked by Russia was the forces of the government you are under now.” He said that the conflict “will consume everyone in the U.S. by 2012”. This will be followed by a short WWIII in 2015.Surely some of the gentle readers have children. Lola has two teenagers. Who else has children, spouses, loved ones who will be of military service age between 2004 and 2012? Boomer admits to making war on the United States and giving aid and comfort to the invading enemy forces. Sounds like treason from our perspective. Sounds like murder if its your children that he kills in the conflict. As Rick Donaldson would say, we are the government – we the people. Boomer says that we are the enemy.So – for the supporters: do you really hope that he’s what he says that he is? Is this what you want for your children?
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-22-2001 01:33 AM
Rick, I check it out later.
To me, after seeing movies of H-bombs, early pictures, I was under the impression that a shock-wave is what goes that far or so. Pictures I seen of old ’50’s type mushroom clouds had trees down and everything flated by the shockwave of the blast. That’s what I’m going by.
I look it up later, I have to catch up on things I have to get done.I been just thinking, like Emmett perhaps, doesn’t anyone see anything wrong with building, how can I put it?I think John said essentially, although I may have to review:An electron fed, spin controlled, (for the ergospheres), rotating microsingularity.
At one point, because I was reading some posts of John, he said that controlling the spin of (what I thought)the microsingularity was what kept the ergospheres in line. Controlling both ‘spins’ of the microsingularities.
How would you ever control the spin of a subatomic particle?All we do is blast them in the accelerators to photograph the tracks made, because you can not even see the particles, only the tracks that were left by the particles.
I have seen pictures, and if it were not for the track’s photograph, there would be no picture of the particle. The particle had already decayed, or something, that only left the tracks to be photographed. That’s all anyone can get from blasting particles near the speed of light. They were black and white photographs that only showed the tracks of the particle. Someday, I have to look up those photographs, maybe they have them at a particle accelerator website.
No, I was not on the Internet then, this was way back when I was in my local astronomy club. Over 11 years ago. I remember those photos. I think it was Wayne the founder of the club who brought us those photographs. Just a sorta long white-looking track where the particle had gone after smashing. Yes, if you saw them, …… spiraling off after impact.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-22-2001 01:45 AM
Here’s John’s post (part of it, don’t ask me what page):The singularities do not create Tipler cylinders they create the same physical environment without all the mass. The same math works for both. There are two singularities. Their mass and spin is altered in order to adjust the size of the ergosphere and cause the event horizons to interact and create the gravity sinusoid. I have a basic home schooling education (k-12) and a bachelor’s degree in history.I would like to know when humans can control the mass and spin of a singularity?
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 07:30 AM
Javier – You kill me. Haha. Basic training? You’re 21 years old and have been through basic? But you’re not in the military? What happened there? Typically, there is a minimum of three years of service required after basic training. Get kicked out for your attitude? <chuckles>Darby: Problem #1Early on Boomer posted that the radius of effect of the time distortion field is 12 to 15 feet (Schwarzschild Radius of 4 to 5 meters). He also said that the mass of the singularities is that of a “small mountain”. I suggested 3*10^18/kg (1/2,000,000th the mass of the Earth)and he did not dispute it (though it may be smaller)… anyone see where I’m going with this?I see where you’re going – weight of the machine among other things. Also – I do not believe that this is the schwarzschild radius that he is talking about. That radius is the “blue event horizon” – and… I hate to say this, but nothing within that radius would be seen again. So… this is more like the theory behind tipler cylinders (read up on that, I’m not gonna explain it here). Basically though, you do NOT enter into the radius when traveling along a tipler cylinder.Problem #2There’s another problem with his diagrams on your site:Page #5 (C204 Tipler Sinusoid…) Item #1 shows the twin singularities in line with the x-ray venting zone.The schematic following the photos also shows the singularities in line – and in line with the driver’s seat. It seems that the x-rays are vented directly at the driver.Where’s the problem? Hehehe. But, you have to note, that the diagram is NOT TO SCALE. Also, remember that no matter what government document you’re talking about, if it is a manual, it is GOING TO CONTAIN INACCURACIES. The government uses “lowest bid” – remember?About the “fogging of the film”… well, yes true, if it is film.
Video tape is magnetic. X-rays will not affect magnetic tape in this manner – that is by fogging the video. There might be some “magenetic domains” knocked out of place by x-radiation, however, the result would be these little sparkles you see on the TV when you do not have a very good (strong) signal coming in. We call it “snow”. I’m sure folks have seen this before.I haven’t really done any calculations on the distance of the event horizon from the actual “surface” of a black hole – but, I know what I’ve read states that the event horizon is actually very close to the “surface” (if indeed it could be called a surface).
Point being, we’re talking about a ‘microsingularity’.
I have my doubts as to whether it can exist in the first place, but a physcist friend tells me that it is possible for such a thing and indeed, there have been discussions of doing JUST that with a linear accelerator. The problem was that they just weren’t sure if it would decay quickly or become something that might envelop the earth. There was no discussion of the “weight” of such a thing, because it is man made, and would not be a true singularity.I won’t dispute any calculations you have made regarding the Schwarzchild Radius of the microsingularity, but I will say, I believe it to be on the order of microns rather than inches or feet. Remember, we’re talking about something the size of an electron.By the way, *I* can tell electrons which way to spin and I’m not a “full fledged physcist”. So I suppose it wouldn’t be that big of a stretch to force a black hole to spin this way or that.Albert: I probably misunderstood your post.
Yes, the blast radius is pretty big, but it isn’t 200 miles in any case. Remember a blast wave is basically a supersonic sound wave and it will dissapate over distance. That dissapation is based on several factors, like density of the air, temperature, how close to the ground, etc etc. I’m sure I left something out. In any case, a blast wave will be very strong very close to ground zero (the point of the ground above which the bomb is detonated). As the wave travels outward, and the distance increases, the overpressure drops quickly. I believe it is an inverse of the distance traveled.
That basically means – as an example (and I’m not sure this is completely accurate, but those links I gave will tell you for sure) as the distance doubles the overpressure will be reduced by a factor of four. (It’s too early for me to do math, and I was called into work last night, so I’m doubly tired now).Damage from a nuclear bomb would be devastating, but only in the target area. That means… perhaps at distances of up to 10 miles away there would be damage, increasingly worse as you get closer and closer to ground Zero. But – as you get further and further away the damage is reduced.
Basically.. I have a ranch style house – I’m seven miles from Cheynne mountain. If they hit it with a 20 megaton bomb, my house goes bye bye. My basement, however, will remain intact. It is below ground level and unless the fire ball touches the region below ground, then below ground is safe, that’s been my point all along. Hence, survivablity of nuclear attacks.Your black and white photos of tracks of particle trails was accomplished actually, very easily. I’ve performed those precise experiments without the aid of an accelerator myself. The tracks actually are drawn in a cloud of vapor – usually CO2 vapor.
In fact when I did it, I used radium from a old wrist watch, and dry ice for the vapor. The trails were CLEARLY visible with the naked eye. When examined under a magnifying glass (I used a microscope) I could seen the decay as a long trail that fell into a “death spiral” as I called it. When the particles decayed completely, the spiral ended. Of course this occured VERY fast, and essentially, I saw only the result of the decay, which was the track in the fog.I did these experiments when I was 15 years old or so, in my basement lab. I had a fully stocked chemistry/physics lab when I was a kid. That stopped the day I ****ed near killed everyone in the house with clorine gas… duh…
Anyway, I decided that chemistry wasn’t my bag, and went instead into electronics and physics after that.
Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-22-2001 08:30 AM
It is obvious that you think too much of yourself. Am I supposed to be scared? What I am saying is that you are wasting too much of your young life getting worked up over a post like this. You will be old soon enough and you’ll wish you did things differently.You have mentioned that you are very mature for your age. Who are you trying to convince, yourself? The overreactions are not a sign of maturity. You also seem to have a propensity to want to smash things like this time machine. Is that a sign of maturity?The answer to all those pointless things you mentioned is, no. Please channel your energy into things that will further your career. Someday you’ll thank me for this.[Edited by Mel Reckling on 03-22-2001 at 08:33 AM]
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 09:35 AM
I need to post something here… I have nothing to do with any possible military involvement in this forum. I want folks to understand that I am simply interested in this for the sake of science fiction, science fact and a very strong curiosity about time travel.John can not be reached right now. And certain other individuals appear to have been contacted. I can’t say more, but… if anyone is contacted by “military personnel” make sure you get names, ranks and any other information you can from them. Give it to me. I DO have the means to verify their existence. Now… I just put MY ass on the line here, so if someone DOES contact you.. I wanna know right away, but if you don’t have a name, rank, base of operations, serial number or anything else, then they are probably not real.Listen… if someone contacts you in email and says they are “investigating this or that” and claim to be military – ask them:1) What branch of service?2) What organization are you in?3) What is your military rank and pay grade?4) Are you a law enforcement officer?5) Why are you contacting ME?If you get these silly-assed answers about “National Security” or whatever – then ask them:“What is YOUR need to know?” and end the conversation.
You have Constitutional rights, even where National Security is involved. So, remember that. And unless and until they contact you IN PERSON and SHOW A BADGE, ID CARD or other authorizing documentation (like, let’s say a WARRANT) then they can’t even be bothering you if you do not invite them to do so.Rick
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-22-2001 11:07 AM
Darby,This stuff is for fun, remember? Traitors? Good Grief!(good grief is probably a good example of those linguistic time frame give aways)Lola[Edited by Lola Montez on 03-22-2001 at 11:18 AM]
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 11:26 AM
Mel,
Some things are worth fighting for. And as you can see, others are following in. You took my wanting to smash his machine to serious. After all, it was in a joke you probably took as serious as well. And worked your self up to frenzy about it, and into a debate against me, about something you found immature in a joke . Now who’s overreacting…?I don’t think that highly of my self, how you think I probably do. I merely mentioned that (for the first time here) of what I know and can do and feel in my heart, to show you that I am mature. Not that you care, not that I care, it’s just that you were ****ing me off making unfair assumptions, while not even knowing me. And still are.I have nothing to prove to anyone, I can careless. Just don’t attack my character, because that’s personal.Btw way, how old are you? Are you speaking about maybe your life? Why do you have many regrets? I find it that sometimes people your age speak from experience… Well let me tell you something, not all 21 year olds end up with a screwed up life.
I am just happened to want to do something about the world’s condition. But I guess those ideals died in you along time ago, and now accept the life you have everyday for what it is. Man, that’s sad. Maybe instead of condemning us young “whimper snappers,” you should listen to us. Our will to fight is strong (some of us) might wake you up and feel the need to do something.Sincerely,Javier C.P.S. Yeah Rick, shortly after BCT, I got medically discharged. It’s a personal matter though, and I don’t wish to talk about it thanks.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 11:29 AM
Oh come on Lola, it’s it for fun, then tell me how many times have I been attacked by you, and told that I am hostile?Please.-J.C.
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-22-2001 11:47 AM
Mel, I’ve been following this thread and it’s comic book format for some time now. I don’t think it matters if this Titor guy is from the future or from Jersey. It was fun listening to his rap. The other guy Xavier?….well.“Poor misguided Mel. You speak as if you almost knew better. Yet still you know nothing about my life, and insist that I am what you claim to be. Well I hate bragging about my self, but I see that it’s necessary. Or else you’ll continue to know nothing about me, and continue ****ing me off. So here I go…”Ok, that was a classic ‘Ming the Merciless’ opener. Guess we’ll have to set our blasters on stun. Here comes the pedigree.“Are you a 2nd Degree black belt in Karate?”No and if I was I would know that it is considered very poor behavior to tout one’s supposed skill in martial arts.“(Everyone in my family knows how to defend themselves, tradition since I am a quarter Chinese, my blood demands it).”The parenthesis is to inform us of qualifying information…as if he were saying it under his breath while delivering the Vulcan Death Grip.“Were you a League Champ in High School Wrestling?”This is to let you know that in the tradition of the WWF…”Talk’s cheap Bozo! Let’s get it on!”…and we wonder why kids in southern California are shooting…“How about going through Army Basic Training?”No thanks, already went through Marine training myself back when it WAS hard and the little pieces of army guys get caught between my teeth.“I know tough, if anything I am far from weak and like an average 21 year old.”The average 21 year old is a limp sack of s**t who worships at a mall and is more concerned with the tenderness of his feelings than the toughness of his resolve.“I am incredibly disciplined.”This guy should get together with Helen Reddy and roar.“I don’t wait another day to speak my mind and take action on things that are wrong.”Sounds like he’s running for office here.“Growing up in So.Cal I’ve seen death, I’ve seen terror, and I’ve seen people taken advantage of.”James Taylor couldn’t say it any better…gimme’ my guitar and lemme’ put on that work shirt and wide belt….“Maybe it’s different where you were brought up, but these kinds of things I I want to do something about them.”Using two ‘I’s like that gives me a suspicion that this may be a Rastafarian masquerading as a Pastafarian..“So pardon, for taking a stand and wanting to do something about the wrong things in life.”Well, at least he apologizes but I wish he would bring back that stand. Two wrongs don’t make a right.“You don’t see many young people doing that, and I believe it should be encouraged, not condemned.”Bring up super of American flag come in for close up as tear rolls down cheek raise music and fade to credits…..“Thank you very much; those were my 2 cents,”Final shot thanking the armed forces for their help and cooperation and the people of China for their one quarter donation of genetic material….go to black. End.[Edited by Lee Heggy on 03-22-2001 at 11:50 AM]
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-22-2001 12:14 PM
ArrowHi, I commend your passion for what you yourself believe. I wish to point out that every other person in the world also has their own beliefs. It is when a person appears to, or even tries to foist their own beliefs on others that the problems arise. Not everyone here believes that TT is an immoral or evil technology. You know this, but my point is that you appear to be going about distributing your beleif in a counter-productive way.Your current method of discussion seems clouded by your passionate dislike for the technology and frankly, it is hard to take you serious because of that. At your web site you describe your beliefs. It was an interesting read, but it is also not in the same form of presentation as you are giving here. I would actually like to know more about your view, but you seem to view people who are older than you in a distrustful if not aggravated way. Although I believe differently than you about the application of TT technology, I would sincerely be interested in understanding your belief when presented in a less inflamed fashion.For the sake of discussion, suppose John really is a TT. What are you specifically trying to accomplish in this dialogue? If you feel others are wrong, ok, but say why others are wrong without attacking. I mean, if you want someone to understand your viewpoint, calling them sheep is a bad way to start.Phil
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-22-2001 12:16 PM
WinkI do not think that Russia attacks the US with people, just missiles.Anyway, I have no information about much of this topic.It would not do anybody any good to ask me any question.I just tried to bring up points for discussion and maybe some ‘bad’ jokes.Rick, look at it this way,:If you have enough advance warning like John said, how long would it take you to drive to Omaha (maybe an airplane)(about 611 miles)?You can ball me out in person, if this story is true.Bring some water, and a distillation unit for it, and how fast can you really drive, if enough advanced warning.You can tell me all day, ‘See, I told you so!’ or something.In fact, it true, how long would it take anyone to get to Omaha, I drove straight through to Florida, 1200 miles, only took 24 hours, on a lazy driving trip.
We can all sit down and have a cup of coffee of something.Or I’ll be on my way surely, if all this is happening.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 12:20 PM
Ok,I think Lee tapped the nail on the head… once, then drove it home. LOL.Sorry, but that was funny as all get-out. But, I don’t think it is necessary for any of us to be attacking anyone. Once the forum degenerates for those who are (perhaps) trying to cause it to degenerate, no longer will communication work.In other words, as much fun as Javier, Lee, myself and others are having with the barbs and insults… they are very counter-productive.I personally apologize to Javier for my comment about his military discharge. That wasn’t any of my business and I really shouldn’t have taken it to that level. I’m sorry Javier. Your discharge is not the subject of discussion here (even though you DID throw it out to be picked on like you did, I shouldn’t have picked on it).Now – I’m not saying that we shouldn’t debate. In fact, I think a good argument is very good, however, we should stick as closely to the facts as we see them, and try to explain to each other WHY we take the tack we take on talking the way we are. I’ve tried in past posts to do so.Now – another subject. My post a few back that is entitled “Military Involvment”… please do not read anything into that. I’ve received several quite interesting messages today trying to dechiper what I said.PLEASE – There is NOTHING to dechiper. What I intended was a sort of “panic reduction” message. Sometimes in these forums (and this is not the first, nor will it be the last) people get the feeling they are being stalked by the government, or some Men in Black or something. I can’t say that doesn’t happen, but I can tell you from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE that if someone suspects you of some national security violation, they are NOT going to contact you via email.They ARE going to find out what you’re about, and might even contact you in person, but they will be legitimate law enforcement officers, not men in black, not guys in green or any other Three-Letter-Agency EXCEPT the FBI.See the FBI is the US Law Enforcement agency that has jurisdiction over national security matters within the United States and its territories. NSA ain’t coming out, CIA won’t bother with you, and if there are Men in Black, I bet you dimes to Martian quarters they aren’t Americans (or Earthlings). http://www.artbell.com/img/marsmoney.jpgSo chances are, if some dufus from the Pentagon is contacting you via email, he is definately a dufus, isn’t authorized, and certainly isn’t from the Pentagon (or any other such place, Area 51, UFO Island or anywhere else). If the guy comes to your door with a badge book and says “FBI”… ask him if he has a warrant and then send him on his way if he doesn’t.Otherwise… don’t get too wrapped up in being paranoid.That’s MY job.Rick[Edited by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 at 01:38 PM]
Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-22-2001 12:27 PM
SmileJust when things started getting REALLY interesting….
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-22-2001 12:28 PM
I’m really, really sorry if my little cut-up has hurt ANYONE’S feelings or bruised the ever so delicate sensitivities of others who post here. I’m especially sorry if I’ve hacked off the Chinese. I just thought Mel was getting short shrift and…well…dang it all..Mel, dude…I LOVE YOU MAN! There, I’m glad I got that off my chest. Now I’m gonna look at those fuzzy pictures of John’s time traveling golf cart and see if I can make heads or tails out of any of it.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 12:28 PM
Lee Heggy,Thank you very much for scrutinizing everything I said in a Howard Stern manner. But you missed my point. You asked no real questions, had no real dialogue. Just commented and ran off saying vicinities. Just like Mel.I take it you speak like this often.((and we wonder why kids in southern California are shooting…))Maybe because of people like you.
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-22-2001 12:38 PM
I think I got your point quite well and if not then you just made it for me with your nasty little tag at the end of your squawk. Sorry if I stepped on your tail.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 12:41 PM
Where you been Phil?(( but my point is that you appear to be going about distributing your beleif in a counter-productive way. ))What would be a productive way for you?((Your current method of discussion seems clouded by your passionate dislike for the technology and frankly, it is hard to take you serious because of that.))If you knew illegal drugs were bad and could kill your kids if they tried that, wouldn’t you tell them, and hate illegal drugs?((….. you seem to view people who are older than you in a distrustful if not aggravated way.))When? All I did was answer Mel’s questions, and I didn’t even say every old person. I said him in particular.(( I would sincerely be interested in understanding your belief when presented in a less inflamed fashion.))Again, how should I present it?((… you feel others are wrong, ok, but say why others are wrong without attacking. I mean, if you want someone to understand your viewpoint, calling them sheep is a bad way to start.))First off, haven’t I been telling people how it’s wrong? Second of all, sheep was a comment to those people that bowed to John like if he can’t be wrong. To people who wouldn’t listen to any other side but John’s.I hope this clarifies things.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-22-2001 12:48 PM
UnhappyLee said:(and we wonder why kids in southern California are shooting…))Javier said:“Maybe because of people like you.”I say:Ouch! Wrong forum to be discussing the child shooters, but I have looked at why it happens and come up with my own conclusions. People like Lee are not among the evidence. C’mon Javier, I am rootin’ for a constructive dialogue.
Posted by Bob Marz on 03-22-2001 12:55 PM
[1] “Some things are worth fighting for.” Chocolate, maybe, but the credibility of a self-proclaimed time traveler ln an internet message board?[2] People are drawing conclusions based sheerly on the issue of whether Titor has posted lately, concluding its an admission of guilt, knavery, chicanery, etc. It proves no such thing. The fact that you draw a flawed or hasty conclusion or project causal connections has nothing to do with reality itself. There are all sorts of legitimate reasons why he might not have posted lately.[3] I think Javier sees himself as Don Quixote, the man of La Mancha, defending us “sheep,” and deluded “followers” of the ‘Pie Pipper'(sic), ie, the guardian alpha-male patrolling the edge of the herd for danger. I see him as a good guy too, but one who because of tenacity and obsession, has singlehandedly beaten the funfactor of this thread to a bloody pulp.
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-22-2001 12:55 PM
Thanks for the vote of confidence there Phil. Xavier also said that,“I take it you speak like this often.”and then in the very next post replicates my form of posting. (which isn’t patented and used by thousands of others as well) Imitation is a form of flattery though and I’ll take it for what it’s worth. I’m logging off and leaving now (not running). I’ve got to go eat a burger before they are outlawed.
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-22-2001 01:01 PM
Jeez, you guys, I wish you wouldn’t encourage him. Now we will never be able to move on. Very funny, though,Lola
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 01:25 PM
Phil,Ouch? It wasn’t me who started. I had to finish it though… You support the person who just attacked me by defending his statements. But don’t wish to answer my questions? Talk about being counter-productive…Where’s your credibility now? Where do you stand? I thought you wanted me to say where people are wrong. Which is just what I did… And have been doing from the start.Any further questions?-Javier C.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 01:25 PM
Is Javier or Time Travel the subject of discussion now?
Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-22-2001 01:31 PM
Thanks guys for coming to my defense. In response to your post. I am 47 years old and yes I was once 21. Regrets I’ve had a few, but than again too few to mention(thanks Mr. Sinatra). Didn’t Al Bundy once score 4 touchdowns in a single game in high school and still wind up a shoe salesman?I know I’m a nobody, but I’ll ask you do you own a Porsche? I do. Do you own your own business? I do. Have you ever shot under par in golf? I have 8 times. Do you own your home? I do. About 15 years ago I was one of the top 50 Toyota salesman in the country. The point is none of this matters. We all have our own accomplishments. The only thing I’m apparently good at is getting under some people’s skin on this post to post BBS.By the time I was 21 I had been to Europe twice. Once made it back from Amsterdam with only 20 bucks in my pocket and having to hitch through N.Y.C. The important thing in life is to make the most of your experiences and to listen to the advice of people more experienced than yourself. I guess I’m doomed to be an old Fuddy Duddy.I feel a truce is in order. We are way off topic and they’ll probably pull the plug on us at any time. Let me know how you feel.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 01:31 PM
Rick,I don’t know what’s up with some of these people. It could be anything. It could be the fact that John isn’t here. Maybe now that Darby is perhaps brining people to realize what they believed John to be, has upsetted them a bit. Or maybe they hate us, for being apart of driving John away, I don’t know. Those are my guesses though.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 01:37 PM
Sure Mel, I guess we can have a truce. Even though I have more to say .But remember, I had no body supporting me, I am half your age, and someday I will own a house. All in due time.Truly,Javier C.P.S. Actually I am only 20 years old. My birthday is in 3 weeks .[Edited by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 at 01:40 PM]
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 01:45 PM
Javier,It isn’t “these people”… it’s you my friend. It wasn’t John that brought out the worst in any of us, it was each of us in turn, turning up the heat.You have a way of upsetting people, and quickly. When they feel the must defend whatever it is you’ve upset them about, they come back with all guns a-blazing.Seriously, you do have a problem with time travelers – so it seems, and you’re dead set on proving it. We all understand that, but here, the point it moot. We don’t care too much whether or not you like them, we only care to prove the truth.Unfortunately, none of us, except John can do that right now, and he isn’t around.I sort of suspected he vanish quietly – and he apparently has. So… rather than everyone discussing the points of being 21/43 or 56, we should be discussing the data we DO have, pictures and otherwise, and trying to piece together what little we know.If John is real, and he wants a person to observe, he will let us know. Note that it is my opinion he won’t want us to, and if he DOES provide a video, obviously none of us are going to believe it. Which, by the way, John stated several times in the beginning – “I do not WANT you to believe” – I think were his words.The bickering accomplishes nothing, except to escalate a war that has no purpose. Testosterone has its place, but it ain’t here.Rick
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-22-2001 01:53 PM
I admit I am confused.I may have to consult “Doctor Who”, President of Galifry, President of the High Council of ‘Time Lords’ and ask him a few questions. He’s usually off though fighting humans mortal enemey, the ‘Darleks’.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-22-2001 01:53 PM
Post“What would be a productive way for you?”Well, since you ask, I would attempt to describe my view in a clear and descriptive manner. I have read all your posts and your web site. I still do not understand *specifically* what your view IS based on. You may have stated these things in previous posts, but overall the tone you take in presenting has made it difficult to assemble an accurate picture of what it is you are trying to say. The objective in presentations is to make it EASY for the ‘viewer’ to understand. The rhetoric confuses your message.“If you knew illegal drugs were bad and could kill your kids if they tried that, wouldn’t you tell them, and hate illegaldrugs? ”I do know why certain drugs are illegal. I am aware that people die from them sometimes. I had a friend who went on a research trip on homelessness and lived the life and tried heroin and died. I have no kids, but should I be so graced as to have them someday, I would raise them knowing that I am the one man they can always count on to care about them. I would encourage the discussion of anything, no matter the subject by not violating trust issues involved in personal discussions. If said child were to somehow become involved with the drugs, I would not hate the drugs, I would find the distributor of said drugs to children and at the very least quietly talk to my local PD Detectives about removing said distributor from society. As for said child, I would desire to discover why they felt the need to do illegal drugs, but not freak on the child so they do not shut down and hate their elders.“All I did was answer Mel’s questions, and I didn’t even say every old person. I said him in particular.”Sorry. I was a tad too broad perhaps, but there is a valid point to make. Sometimes people state things in such a way that they themself do not see how others are reading\hearing it. The way I read your comment was indeed toward Mel when viewed on its own, but collectively your demeanor seems fairly anti-toward people you do not know personally and may happen to be older than yourself.“First off, haven’t I been telling people how it’s wrong?”Perhaps you have, but it seems to come across as if to say *because I say so*“…sheep was a comment to those people thatbowed to John like if he can’t be wrong. To people who wouldn’t listen to any other side but John’s.”Again, Its all in how you state things. The way in which you stated the sheep comment literally implied that everyone else were sheep. Again, you may not see that implication, but it IS there.“I hope this clarifies things”Me too. I almost admire the enthusiasm you show, but as I see it, when enthusiasm is coupled with a hatred of something it becomes a crusade. The crusades were over long ago. I urge you to re-evaluate your feeling of hatred, but I will not suggest you rethink your view. Hate is such an ugly emotion that it consumes ones soul. I am not intending to offend you Javier and it is not my goal to help everyone in the world, but you have such a determined passion, it seems a waste to see that consumed with the hatred. I hated someone before. Turns out, I had been harming myself by hating that person. They were external to me so I moved on with life and although I still Strongly dislike them, I do not throw myself into their path on purpose and am a pretty happy guy.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 02:40 PM
Phil,Your empathic nature is understandable. But I cannot always be concern by how someone will interpret what I say. I don’t claim to be a people person; I never said I would be politically correct. I said I would do what’s right, and bring out the truth. Which is what we are all looking for, and doing?So my way is different. Is there a standard I have to follow?You can get the same results in many different ways. I suppose being offence, instead of defense or neutral is what most people prefer that I be. That’s very nice, but it wouldn’t fit my nature.Action if more my forte, defense might be another mans way of solving problems. And some are neutral (pacifists) who don’t try, but get things done somehow.Each way has it’s own merit. Like many others things in this world (religions, schools, governments). I choose action though.-Javier C.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-22-2001 02:54 PM
ArrowI was not trying to change you. I was simply offering advice on a more effective way to get your message understood. If force is your way, so be it, but be prepared to be misunderstood. No harm no foul. No disrespect. Take care Javier. I believe you have peoples best interest at heart, but I also believe you are taking the hard path to communication.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 03:10 PM
My way is not so much force, but actually doing something. Taking action. Force by it’s self sounds really bad. And I guess that’s were I was misunderstood. Oh well, thanks for understanding . I’m glad we could all come to a resolution.-Javier C.
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-22-2001 03:29 PM
This thread has gone south. Rick, I think you should be the one to start a new thread on TT where we can carry on our previous discussion and leave these guys to worry over JC’s communication style (or lack thereof).[Edited by Lola Montez on 03-22-2001 at 03:32 PM]
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 06:10 PM
And what previous discussion would that be? Supporting a man who claims to be from the future? Ookkaayy.-J.C.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-22-2001 06:19 PM
Rick,What Boomer has described so far, even though he uses the term Tipler Sinusoid, isn’t the description of a Tipler cylinder. Professor Tipler describes the cylinder as having 10 solar masses or more and squeezed into an infinitely dense and infinitely long cylinder – which is longitudionally spun at about one billion RPM’s.I suppose that if you were interested in verification of Boomer’s science that you could go right to the source, Dr. Frank Tipler, Tulane University, for an interview. Ask him his thoughts on Boomer’s device – afterall, its Dr. Tipler’s science:http://www.math.tulane.edu/~tipler/Address: Department of MathematicsTulane UniversityNew Orleans, LA 70118Email: tipler@math.tulane.eduOffice: Gibson 305Phone: (504) 862-3449FAX: (504) 865-5063Oh…the Schwarzschild Radius of about 1.33 meters (4 ft). I hope that Boomer doesn’t hang his left arm out the window because it might be left behind in 2036 when he fires up that puppy.I doubt that you’ll get to interview Boomer. I wanted to know the ET of his trip because of some comments he posted at various times. He’s stated that its very important for the machine to be absolutely still – it makes a “timelike trip” and not a “spacelike trip”. He also says that the traveler is exposed to 1.5 to 2.0 g’s of accelleration and needs an oxygen supply. At 2 g accelleration you will be traveling just a tad faster than a Chevy pick-up in short order (about one year to reach light speed).
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-22-2001 08:30 PM
TalkingDo You suppose DARBY, that IF John is a TT, that the Tipler cyclinder he describes could simply be a revision on the current one that Mr. Tipler has? I mean, if he is from 2036, it could be a revised schematic.Lola:Todays side trip with JC was actually healthy for the thread by my view, for there has been contempt brewing for a while and perhaps that released some tensions. For my part, I was trying to offer a method of communicating to JC because I am sincerely interested in all perspectives given. His included. I dunno if he will provide a detailed and less ‘action’ aka force oriented dialogue (teasing JC), but we shall see. That is what makes it pertinent to the thread.
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-22-2001 09:38 PM
Phil,I certainly applaud your effort and admire you for having the kind of heart that makes that effort. But I think it is obvious by now that no headway is possible. It starts to detract from the other good stuff going on here.To the board-Why do you think John has gone off the board? Is it because Darby’s analysis made him uncomfortable or could it have been Rick’s serious offer to film the event? (or neither)I don’t think packing would be taking every waking moment as there is not much room in that car.There was another alleged TT around awhile ago that left due to lack of interest. He claims to be from the far future. It would be interesting to see where our discussion might go with a different scenario for the future.I wanted to make a point regarding Darby’s treason suggestion made earlier. Every revolution starts with an act of treason. History is written by the victors. We have many hero’s in our past that would be considered villians if the English had won the war.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 10:02 PM
I had a few ideas why John might not be here. About 2 pages ago today .John feels the pressure he’s been getting in this thread by someone he didn’t expect. He was well comfortable when it was just me being the only one opposing him. But now, that’s all changed.We all know John wouldn’t leave without saying good-bye. He likes the attention; he likes people to think he’s interesting. Right Pamela?Typical Machiavellian behavior if you ask me.-Javier C.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-22-2001 10:46 PM
He was out of town.
Posted by Barbara Clements on 03-22-2001 11:01 PM
Well, my guess is he’ll be back. In the meantime can someone explain what a tipler sinusoid field is?
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-22-2001 11:16 PM
The thoughts fromt the ‘Great Nuthin’ which will prove nuthin’. While I never followed through on physics and just do not remember it, I leave the calcs to someone else. My whole thought, and I will have to do a lot of reviewing, is even if a person (John) shows up with a device claiming to travel in time, something just bothers me about the convenience of it.
To me all things that were built needed a boost of technology. Nothing was convenient. Now I admit that producing a microsinglarity would be significant, and clever engineering would help, but still I feel that it just does not produce a time machine.
I have to check on the theory of “why” that would produce ‘time travel’. I must admit that I am not trying to solve how to produce a time machine, which to me with all of the math and thinking just ends up being in a different ball park then where the ball was even hit.That’s all I have right now, two cents.But if your really convinced that this produces time travel, I read about it.
Posted by Barbara Clements on 03-22-2001 11:35 PM
One thought did just occurr to me, and I’m not saying this as proof of anyone claiming to be a time travelor, but more or less as an interesting socialolical point, no one believed Jesus was who he was either.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-22-2001 11:35 PM
I’ll try to be brief.
At first, I thought ‘smart rocks’ sounded like a good idea. Now, I do not. The only practical purpose of having a ‘smart rock’ to me is to shoot down an incoming missile to keep the missile from reaching the target. Leaving nuclear missiles in the ocean or exploding the missile high above, perhaps in space, may just wreck the ozone layer or something, especially, leaving corroded nuclear missiles in the ocean. They will corrode. They do find bombs from WWII yet.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-23-2001 12:06 AM
Pamela,How do you know? Is he back then? I guess we should hear from him real soon .Barbara, so what’s your point? John is a real Time Traveler because some people don’t believe him?J.C.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 01:29 AM
Okay, I admit that somewhere I am not up to par with these theories. But one question seems to not have been asked, and if I missed it I apologize.Interesting theories, except “Who or what was the first time traveler?”I am not debating whether John is real or not, nor if the theory supports time travel. Before humans went into space, I think, if I ever think I remember, monkeys went into space. I find that it would be dishearting if all of a sudden, “we need a human operator of this device, because a human must go in order to get back.” I think of a moral, ethical people, that some type of remote controls and initial flights would be needed. Frankly, this type of time travel, even with 100% certainty, scares the “heck” out of me. Is anyone sure that they would indeed volunteer for a “All of the theory works out, but…. we won’t really be sure until you come back from your TT trip.” And by the way, have a nice day!Just imagining what going on this trip really means.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-23-2001 07:47 AM
Phil,I’m assuming that if what Boomer says is true then the science would be an advancement on what Dr. Tipler has proposed. However Dr. Tipler isn’t in 2036 he’s here in 2001 and should have some ideas about what Boomer purports to be true of Tipler-based science.Surely you’re not suggesting that if Albert Einstein was alive today that there would be no value in seeking his opinion of Boomer’s GR ideads, are you?
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-23-2001 07:59 AM
ArrowJavier: About Barbaras comment, she states that” I’m not saying this as proof of anyone claiming to be a time travelor”. It seems clear enough that she was only drawing the conclusion that Jesus was not believed to be Jesus and John may not be believed to be a TT. Yes I agree it leads to an assumption, but moreso she seems to clearly bring up the fact that we really do not know and will not know unless something happens to prove it or disclaim it.James: Yesterday was a day that was more or less devoted to Javier. I do not wish to offend you, but really, Javier has his point of view too. I would agree that his manner of conveying that message has at times been caustic, but your attack on him actually seems worse than his ‘action’aka force oriented method of communication. The frustration is understood by everyone I think, but isn’t the action of telling him “leave and go back to your website” a tad extreme?Everyone: Yesterday was indeed a day that centered less on topic than might be desired, in the words of an infamous person,”cant we all just, get along?” 🙂 j/k Really though, I am curious if anyone believes John is a TT based on faith, since as of yet there is no concrete proof. I ask this out of curiosity and request that if anyone responds to this that everyone simply address this, if they wish, without attacking. Yes Javier, I am asking you too (playin with ya, J)
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-23-2001 08:07 AM
TalkingWell, Darby, I think I overlooked the possible value of talking to Mr. Tipler and discussing the model that John has brought forth. Who knows, may that is how Mr Tipler revises his model. Would that not be bizarre if someone brought the John design to Mr Tiplers attention and thus caused the Time Travel Technology to advance?“Surely you’re not suggesting that if Albert Einstein was alive today that there would be no value in seeking his opinion of Boomer’s GR ideads, are you?”Oh No! 🙂 Al was a facinating a brilliant man. Personally I rate Schrodinger a tad higher on the list, but not by much. I actually suspect that Al would be pertly opposed to the concepts brought up here. Maybe I am wrong, but Al only desired to go just so far into quantum physics. therefore rendering his opinion interesting but not necesarily pertinent. Am I wrong?
Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-23-2001 08:18 AM
SmileIf time travel is to be achieved using the methods described by John, where is the mass coming from that would be required to achieve it? I believe Darby touched on this earlier, but I have not seen a satisfactory explanation given.Supposing John is who he said he is, what business is it of anybody here to question his “motives”? I see this as no different, in this aspect, as it is for anyone of us to take a trip across town or across state lines. Since John is an American, he is legally allowed to move about as he feels as long as he is not breaking any laws. Had he been from another country, then I suppose he would have had to report to Immigration.I know of no laws against time travel, per se. I do know of some regimes that have existed, though, where freedom of movement by individuals was not allowed…”Show me your papers!”…and it was not in the United States of America.Darby, I do not necessarily regard John’s purported actions in the upcoming conflict to have been treasonous. They MAY have been, but I would have to know more details to make that determination.By the way, Darby, I picture you as about 55 to 60 years of age, working as a university professor with patches on the elbows of your jacket and loafers on your feet, occasionally imbibing on a pipe filled with excellent and aromatic tobacco. You enjoyed reading Sherlock Holmes as a child, and fancy yourself as a modern day sleuth of his ilk. You are highly intelligent, as well as being very popular with your students. I do not believe you have ever married or had children, as you were gilted by the one and only true love of your life while still a youth. Being the romantic that you are, it was at that low point in your life that you decided to devote yourself to your academic pursuits. You also drive a two seated European convertible.How did I do?(By the way, I would have loved to have had you as one of my professors, too!)[Edited by David R Ferguson on 03-23-2001 at 08:25 AM]
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-23-2001 08:18 AM
First, I wish to apologise for perhaps stirring the pot with a bit too much vigor yesterday..
I thought that the possibility of time travel was pretty much accepted since in a way we are all time travelers but only in one direction and at a universal speed common to all of us. The thought that through mechanical contrivance we could go in several different directions at different rates is a fascinating conjecture.
I believe that John Titor (the real name or gender is irrelevant) is a real person. As to the possibility that he/she/it may be from some elsewhen I have my doubts but I will allow for a tiny crack of that possibility to exist.
Why such a person would spend precious time here on this BBS is unfathomable to me.
It would be like going back to the 1930s and listening in on a party-line telephone. It seems apparent that unless he/she/it comes back and makes further comment there isn’t much point to this thread and a new general discussion of temporeal movement is in order.
[This is a very good point. Why expose yourself to problems, when you really don't need the aggrivation. -Metallicman.]
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-23-2001 08:24 AM
Lola,Thanks for the kind words. And you’re right, every revolution begins with a traitor’s act. And is then fought by 19 year old kids. Love to talk it over with you – lunch at the Red Barn, SY.Everyone should understand that I don’t really consider Boomer to be a traitor or a murderer principally because I don’t believe his story and secondarily because his online persona appears to be that of a decent person.What I attempted to point out is that the totality of a circumstance should be considered in any analysis of rhetoric. As Boomer spun the yarn he made some statements about his political alignment that needed to be addressed. There’s more yet to be considered. For instance:Let’s ‘jus ‘spose once again that its all true. Boomer is a TT, a Major in the military (or former Major now under civilian contract)of the regional nation of Florida (or whatever that region is called)and our government is the enemy state in the war to begin in 2004. Let’s also ‘jus ‘spose that Rick really is a former Military/DoD intelligence operative (and shooter)of that enemy state. Would Boomer, a trained field grade military officer allow Rick within 1000 miles of his country’s device? If Rick turned out to be a “not-so-Ex” spook and managed to snatch the device with a little help from his friends what would prevent we, the enemy state, from returning the machine to 2036 with a suitcase nuclear device onboard?Boomer has rather flippantly answered questions at times by saying that we can’t affect his personal timeline. While that may be true a retalliatory strike by us would affect someone’s timeline. A 22 kt nuke would mess up their entire afternoon if it went off in the lab upon the return of the machine.Again, its a great topic for discussion but Boomer isn’t a TT. No country, past-present-future, would trust such a powerful strategic device to Clodpole for the purpose of mixing both a business trip and a personal vacation. For the techno-military geeks: Have you ever heard of an Air FOrce officer who took out an SR-71 Blackbird on a vacation trip – kind of on loan from DIA/NSA for a few months. Same-same here.Boomer may feel that a flip answer is OK, but his handlers wouldn’t be quite so confident that the machine wouldn’t be snatched.Note for Rick: I agree with your earlier post that some sloppy detail work on military hardware or manuals is common. PRC-25’s, PRC-75’s and other common communications hardware are old and utilitarian and treated roughly.Was sloppy workmanship and detailing on ICBM’s, LA class nuke boats and nuclear devices also your experience? The machine and manual wouldn’t be common grunt equipment that get humped in the boonies and tossed into the hooch at night. Its two year old (in 2036) cutting edge strategic technology developed by GE and CERN (cyclorton) and cost billions of dollars. Is it your experience that that sort of hardware is treated with the same disdain as a field radio?[Edited by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-23-2001 at 08:28 AM]
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-23-2001 08:45 AM
CoolDarby:“what would prevent we, the enemy state, from returning the machine to 2036 with a suitcase nuclear device onboard? ”In your described ‘jus’ suppose scenario I had a couple thoughts that might bring caution to the possibility of ANY authority sending a suitcase in time. If I recall correctly, John stated he has to travel back to 1975 and then back to 2036. First, if I am correct with this statement, The machine would have to stop in ’75 and it would stay there without a person in attendance thus blowing up somewhens 1975. Second, do we know if a person has to be in the ‘driver seat’ of the Chevy to operate the machine? If so, a suitcase nuke and a operator both go boom, thus a suicide mission. Also, Suppose an authority did that suitcase trick. Suppose it gets to 2036. There will be a lot of surprised people in Florida. Well, ‘what if’ the world line that received the suitacse happened to be ours when we reach 2036. OOPS!Just a thought or two.BTW, If 4 out of 5 Time Travellers SUFFER from diarhea, does the other one enjoy it?
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-23-2001 09:10 AM
So……We have progressed to talking and questioning John to thinking of what would happen if you sent a suitcase bomb back to John’s world, blowing him up along with his machine and parts of the worldline he would be on at the time…possibly ours????….Do you still wonder why you never see any time travelers?[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-23-2001 at 09:13 AM]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 09:28 AM
Does anyone wonder if we will even make it through this time?
Maybe, John, is more adept at not being caught, then we think.
I beginning to think about the story, that it is not entirely been written by John, himself. That a group of people covered the story. I also wondered if John was a Russian, I would submit, although I do not know, that there are people in this country, that should not be here, and not poor people from another nation. Tied to embassies of foreign nations, I think the US does the same thing.What would be the purpose of sending a suitcase bomb explosive through time?
You people are getting dangerous. Is that the use of a time machine?Someone better bow to Javier than, because certainly other people would be fighting to not allow time travel.
I think most of the time, there must be continual civil wars in the future by opposing groups.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-23-2001 09:29 AM
QuestionThe suitcase thing is a suppose-it scenario that I cannot see anyone saying “oh yeah great idea” about.Seems that by and large the posts have been quite thorough and inquisitive, but it is odd that John has not posted since the 18th. I saw your post about him being out of town. Does that mean he is back in town? If so, there are loads of questions still to be asked.As for the way the thread has spun toward its current path. Consider a classroom of 4th graders. If the teacher leaves the classroom, does the class atmosphere take a spin toward another direction until the teacher returns to bring things back to the original direction? Yes.I am not using the above example as a literal application to this threads posters or John, just the concept.Please consider that before frowning at the current status. I am certain everyone would be quite pleased if john came on and fielded the concerns of those here. He did start the thread and it would be appropriate if he continued his dialogue or said thats it, time to skip the world lines.If you have read back…except for yesterday…there have been many good questions left unanswered going way back. In fact I cannot find a single response from John regarding anything I have asked, so I have not been attempting to ask anything. Rather I have continued the interaction with others here. If you feel that a TT would not come here because someone chooses to speculate on other motives that are in the realm of possibilty to stretched possibility, then so be it, but look close and see the suitcase stuff for what it is. A speculation. Did anyone actually imply the application of that speculation? Not that I saw.Respectfully.Phil
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 09:43 AM
But Phil, it is an interesting twist. Star Trek never addressed questions like “If we have matter dispacement, we’ll beam a bomb aboard”. All the tech from these made-up worlds were so different that no species could do that. Still, there are ‘laws of nature’ that are all the same.
How does ‘tech’ remain different if all ‘laws of nature’ are the same?
That does include all species in the Universe to me, so far. We suppose that species would be different somehow, but in the end because of the ‘laws of nature’ that may not be true. How do we know that John is not a alien? At which point do humans go a different way with tech. In the future, if a war happened, if anyone mentioned doing certain tech, I think witch hunts would be common, not that tech, never mention it again, kind of life.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 09:46 AM
John, are you receiving smileys yet! Smile, smile, smile, lots of smileys!
Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-23-2001 09:49 AM
Pamela:Nice to have you back! I concur with a lot of what Phil just posted. I, too, have asked several questions to John and none of them was ever answered. Maybe he did not consider them “deep” enough to reply to, but I felt that my questions were not of the sort that could be construed as a means for me to gain an unfair advantage over someone else. For example, I asked if the NCAA still held a baskeball tournament, and if so, was it still in its current format.As for Darby’s comment regarding placing a suitcase sized nuclear device in John’s time machine, that appears to be a good and appropriate point in which to discuss. It falls within the realm of philosphical and moral implications that have previously appeared in this thread. I have not really been able to place my finger on just what it is that Javier has found so offensive about time travel in general, but this is a scenario that might explain it. Maybe Javier fears Time Travelers doing the reverse and bringing back nuclear (or worse) devices into our time and setting them off in an act of terrorism.Anyway, I am glad back to have you back in the discussion, Pamela. Do you think John will resurface here?
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-23-2001 10:03 AM
ArrowI didn’t bring up the scenario of the suitcase. I did try and explain why I felt it was pointless for anyone to try it though. I see no error in logic there. You mention Star Trek. In the Wrath of Kahn, was there not a Genesis device that Kahn wanted to use as a weapon? That is a tech spec example that uses well intended science for less nobel causes. The difference is that in that movie, Khan Intended to do his scheme. Here it was not an intended action. Just speculation on what a governing body could contemplate doing. Of course from my current viewpoint, the theories and discussion here are facinating, but still fantasy role play unless that role play becomes real thru solid proof.I can only speak for myself, but I do not wish harm to anyone. Not a sole. As to John specifically, he has not harmed me or my loved ones, so why should I desire to harm him. I would like it if he would come back for a bit and at least properly terminate the discussion from his part. It is irritating when someone starts something and then simply disappears. Have you seen the number of people who have browsed this thread? My god, theres been tens of thousands of browses and well over 700 posts. That seems to say something about the interest level.Seems that overall, everyone here would like to continue this discussion, but the central figure in the debate is MIA.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 10:20 AM
I’m to wish no harm on anyone. I am just referring to the storyline.
Let’s suppose its true, then: “Once the nuclear button is pressed, humanity breaks down.” It may never recuperate.
New Rule from God, perhaps: “Thou shall keep thy finger off of the nuclear button, humans never again gain for hundreds of year.” Then such a tech as TT, would be a ‘forbidden’ tech.
Well, I’ll have to think of something more pleasant.
John stated that he did not understand why people would stay in the cities if nuclear war was immenient, this may be the reason.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 10:51 AM
To answer John’s question somewhere along this thread:Humans just have a better life coming up with techs that help humans out to deal with overpopulation and other issues than developing techs that lead the world into madness.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-23-2001 11:06 AM
“John stated that he did not understand why people would stay in the cities if nuclear war was immenient, this may be the reason.”I actually think that the majority of people stay in the city because the emphasis of lifestyle has shifted away from the rural. I cannot count how many people have told me that they could not even contemplate living anywhere but L.A., for example. Additionally, I also come across many people who are insulated from real news by their own choice. Just those two attitudes alone can account for many of the people who would choose to stay in a city.I live in suburbia. Downtown L.A. is 35 miles from me as the crow flies. There is the Seal Beach Naval Weapons Station so close to me that I can just about see their fences. The only reason I am here is because my wife will not move out of the region. I would prefer a rural setting. Life has choices and because I love my wife, I stay. Rest assured that if/when it comes time to flee, I will be doing so, bringing her along by force if necessary. I am certain many will stay. Why? Lots of reasons, but I only will name the two.It is pointless to me to continue speculating on if John is a TT unless additional compelling documents are conversational exchanges occur, for if nothing else, he has provided a discusion that allowed us all to explore many themes that spur from future thinking. His list of suggestions are logical and the entire dialogue has been entertaining to boot.Ever heard of classes that entertain while teaching? Comedy traffic school is an example. Of course this is not a school and John is not a teacher, but the principle is the same.[Edited by Phil Fiord on 03-23-2001 at 11:08 AM]
Posted by Barbara Clements on 03-23-2001 11:40 AM
Well, like with Jesus and his situation, I was just thinking how frustrating to the person it must be if it IS true.
Suddenly everything is frozen, you have to defend your arrival, and that becomes the whole thing.
After all, everyone else walks in a room and advances from that point, but if you doubt the reality of the person coming in the room its like you never get to be in the room until you can prove your going through the door is allowed.
I always thought it must’ve been frustrating to be Jesus, (saying here he was what he said he was) and spend all your time having to defend your claim, and not get on to the reason you came and all. Very aggravating.
Posted by James Boley on 03-23-2001 11:41 AM
Darby sure seemed to hit the nail on the head with John Titor. He came towards the end of Johns ‘reign’ over his followers.Is Darby John Titor?
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-23-2001 11:54 AM
I sure hope not, I like the way Darby thinks .-J.C.P.S. If I don’t come back today, it’s because somethings gone wrong with my computer upgrade. C-ya.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 12:03 PM
The purpose of John’s visit is that we help them solve their problems in the future, that’s why he is here.
I do not know if we can do that without being a comedy routine to him. Certainly, if everyone bowed to everyone, like the Japanense do then no human may be talking. Taking it to the ridiculous, everyone be bowing the rest of their lives. Living in a major city is to me another point of ridiculous, people live there for the greatness of the city, then everyone decides that they really rather be actually at times somewhere else, away from a big city. The only reason to be in a ‘big city’ is to feel more alive.
I admit I am dumbfounded at this point. I can not perhaps help John with his problems in the future, and I can not help anyone in this world now, but still I must be, somehow.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 12:50 PM
I’ll propose another question to John. I like the validity of the TV show “StarGate”. You need six points of reference for a cube and a seventh reference, the point of origin, before you can travel through a wormhole type time travel.
May be that I am missing something here. Further thought required.The Universe is central to our existence, but we are central to the Universe. Yet we have infinite multiple ‘worldlines’ of all time where we are ‘yet’ not a ‘God’ but are a ‘God’. Interesting.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-23-2001 03:45 PM
James,An interesting thought – Boomer and me – the same person. Imagine the philosophical thought games that I’d be playing with myself. Fortunately for me, I’m not him (I think he’d agree).AllI posed the question of sending a device back to Boomer’s lab in the machine from the perspective of his handlers. From their perspective we are the enemy upon whom they made war. Would they be willing to risk even the smallest of possibility of having their machine fall into enemy hands and incur some sort of retaliatory strike? Nuke, biological, chemical, or just a healthy dose of C4? Imagine the result of blowing up the device with ordinary explosives. I don’t know if I’d want two 3*10^18 kg black holes auguring into my back yard.Does it really make sense that his handlers would authorize a personal vacation with their billion-dollar machine? It is, after all, a machine. Machines can break down. It’s the result of a program that went live in 2034. It has a computer – software, by definition, has bugs. Last I heard we still have burglars in Florida. While he’s been hanging around some hype could steal his IBM 5100. It may be a piece of junk but would a junkie know that? When your nose is running and your skin is crawling and you want that smacked-back feeling any port in the storm will do to get a fix – even Boomer’s IBM 5100. If the machine were that important to his handlers would they authorize a personal vacation and risk losing the computer?I dunno – how about you?
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-23-2001 04:02 PM
((Pamela. Do you think John will resurface here?))I think he is planning on it but he said he will be unable to address everything.. I don’t think he has time. I don’t want to speak for him though maybe he will come on here and tell you himself.Albert, it is interesting that you mentioned “StarGate.” That was one of my favorite movies. I thought of that right away when they spoke of sending a bomb back to John’s lab.
they did the same in that science fiction movie they snuck a nuclear device back through the stargate to blow up the other world if they found life on it.Did you see the movie “contact” with Jodie Foster? That is another one of my favorite movies.John and Darby are NOT the same person. maybe Javier and Darby are the same??? hehehehehe[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-23-2001 at 04:11 PM]
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-23-2001 04:15 PM
Pamela, If John IS a real TT…he will have time, all the time in the world.
[Not true. He has limitations determined by destination target conditions. -Metallicman.]
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-23-2001 04:26 PM
Lee,I think that is a misconception. that a time traveler has “all the time in the world.”
That might be true if his machine could be operated in that manner. but my understanding is it cannot. once you operate the machine and you leave the worldline can you return to the same one?
You can only arrive and leave at certain times .the conditions have to be right.
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-23-2001 04:51 PM
Pamela, You may be right about that. I just don’t know but I do find it very interesting that although none of us are currently time traveling except in our own lives we have somehow managed to divise rules of the road for doing so.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-23-2001 04:58 PM
“none of us are currently time traveling except in our own lives…”How can you be so sure? Maybe there are others…..
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-23-2001 05:09 PM
I have just received another picture from John to post.I will send it to Rick Donaldson to post on his board.It is titled “final proof?”Hopefully he will post it soon.sincerely,Pamela
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-23-2001 05:13 PM
Well I suppose nothing is what it seems if you can warp time and space so you’ve got me there but I have a pretty solid feeling that most if not all of us are very firmly docked in the present. Thanks for keeping me loose.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-23-2001 05:25 PM
Thanks Pamela, I’ll take that as a compliment, but I’m not Darby . Btw, Lee brought up something interesting I’d like to talk about. “Rules of the Road” as we know them, apply for everyone’s safety. How I have been saying all along, as far as we know they are no rules for Time Travelers. Exploiting the past, and its unknowing people is unethical and convenient for them. For all we know, they could be invisible right now, and orchestrating our lives to their will. Anyone ever think about that? Well we all should… Consider the possibilities that Time Travelers are opportunist, who wish nothing more then to help them selves.I have a lot to say on this matter, but I’ll spare you all the rhetoric… For the moment .Anyway’s, speaking of movies, check out this website and it’s trailer, I like it . http://www.finalfantasy.com-Javier C.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-23-2001 07:20 PM
Daryby: Let’s ‘jus ‘spose once again that its all true.
Boomer is a TT, a Major in the military (or former Major now under civilian contract)of the regional nation of Florida (or whatever that region is called) and our government is the enemy state in the war to begin in 2004.
Let’s also ‘jus ‘spose that Rick really is a former Military/DoD intelligence operative (and shooter) of that enemy state.
Would Boomer, a trained field grade military officer allow Rick within 1000 miles of his country’s device? If Rick turned out to be a “not-so-Ex” spook and managed to snatch the device with a little help from his friends what would prevent we, the enemy state, from returning the machine to 2036 with a suitcase nuclear device onboard?Excellent!
That was, I suppose one of the main reasons I tried to point out several things, including the fact that 1) he won’t let me be “3rd party” 2) Anyone on this board might be a spook with just such a motive (though I SERIOUSLY doubt it).Also Darby: Note for Rick: I agree with your earlier post that some sloppy detail work on military hardware or manuals is common. PRC-25’s, PRC-75’s and other common communications hardware are old and utilitarian and treated roughly.Was sloppy workmanship and detailing on ICBM’s, LA class nuke boats and nuclear devices also your experience? The machine and manual wouldn’t be common grunt equipment that get humped in the boonies and tossed into the hooch at night. Its two year old (in 2036) cutting edge strategic technology developed by GE and CERN (cyclorton) and cost billions of dollars. Is it your experience that that sort of hardware is treated with the same disdain as a field radio?Right- Well, since I never dealt with ICBMs, LA Class nuke subs, and other nuclear devices personally, I can’t answer that. The truth is though, that all military manuals have errors, even on ships.One last thing… along these lines: For the techno-military geeks: Have youever heard of an Air Force officer who took out an SR-71 Blackbird on a vacation trip –NEVER.. which is the first reason I considered John a fraud but just never stated it.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-23-2001 07:38 PM
Excellent critical thinking on that ex-military scenario Rick .-J.C.P.S. Anyone here a computer tech? I have a computer problem .
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-23-2001 08:01 PM
Pam said: I have just received another picture from John to post.I will send it to Rick Donaldson to post on his board.It is titled “final proof?”Hopefully he will post it soon.As she stated, I have recieved said photograph and it is very, very interesting. I find it almost funny in a way. But, before I tell you about it, let me tell you something even funnier – as in “Strange”.A few days ago, someone here on this list began to receive unsolicited email claiming they were from the government. They have threatened certain persons here as well. I have for the most part, successfully discovered who that person is. He is from this list.Tonight, shortly after Pamela posted her message about the “final proof”, my web site, and Anomalies.net went down…One of two possibilities exists right now. The sites reside in California and it is possible a power outage caused the site to go offline. However, everything should have come back online after power was restored. I’m checking that right now and ought to have an answer sometime tomorrow morning.The second possibility is there has been an attack on the site. Something called a denial of service, if anyone knows what that is. I’ve determined that INDEED there have been some “hits” on the machines out there – but at this point, I haven’t confirmed it. I have people who are going to check though. If I find out, and the IPs – correction, the ISP matches the person who is sending out threatening letters… I have a sneaky suspicion the ONLY person being visited by the FBI or government agents will be the perpetrator.Some how… some folks seem to forget those of us in computer security have means at our disposal not normally assigned to the normal internet crowd.So – that said.. let me talk about the photograph since I can’t post it tonight.The photo is a scan of a Florida Government document.
The exact gist of the document is regarding the fact that insurance has run out on a specific vehicle and needs to be renewed or some other action taken.The name, and most of the vehicle information has been blanked for privacy-sake. But… the important part is the date.The date is 03/26/01That’s three days from today.Unforntunately even for me, I find this to be no true explanation for John Titor, Time Traveler. As a “true skeptic” (not of time travel, but rather believing that John IS a time traveler) I realize that given the fiasco of the Florida election process this past year, that Florida of ALL places is suspect when it comes to government documents. It is in all likelyhood a typographical error. But, all of you can be the judge (assuming my site is back online tonight). Otherwise, I willget the photo online as soon as humanly possible. Yesterday, if I had a time machine.Rick
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-23-2001 09:03 PM
~when it begins to rain,it is time to go rainbow gazing.~-pamela
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-23-2001 09:12 PM
What’s the suppose to mean Pamela?Let’s take a poll, who here has been contacted by someone claiming to be from the government?I haven’t.Obviously what would they want with a TimeTravelActivist .[Edited by Javier Cortez on 03-23-2001 at 09:14 PM]
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-23-2001 10:17 PM
I haven’t.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 10:50 PM
I feel for John for having such a mixed-up youth, but even John should realize certain thing. The Government probably is not interested in his ‘time machine’.
But you know politicians, they have probably passed a law that John owes them some kind of tax for entering from a different worldline, even if from the past or from the future.
It is probably already as law in this day and age.
John, you will have to pay your tax before you leave.
They have no need to poke you with needles or take your ‘time machine’, but they will be very determined to collect their money. Why, heck, they do not even care if you pay with future money; since the debt is so large, and it would not even be paid off in the future of 2036. You would not want to leave small John with such a debt, would you?What do you think John?Yes, Pam, I have seen ‘Contact’, a while back. I think I remember some of it, not that much of it though.
Tell John to pay his tax before he leaves.You know this day and age and politicians.
Posted by Philip Mistlberger on 03-24-2001 02:20 AM
Such a grandly entertaining thread.About two years back, on the old Art Bell BBS (which used to be highlighted in that tiring blue, not this pleasant green), there was a self-proclaimed time traveller (Marc “X”) who had everyone in a tizzy for about a month or so. The thread racked up hundreds of posts, it was often extremely funny, mostly for the interplay between several posters, about 4 or 5 of whom were all named “Mark”.
The time-traveller, Marc X, claimed to be an anthropologist from the 22nd century. Unfortunately, in his initial introductory post he spelt “anthropologist” wrong several times. When this was duly pointed out to him by one of the Marks, he defended himself by claiming that English had morphed in the future, but that he would do his best to adapt to our current patterns. This explanation became his most common “out” when in hot spots.Marc was not stupid, but I must say that John Titor has him beat hands down. He not only has covered his bases quite well, he has managed to disappear in a cloud of uncertainty that will at the worst leave some wondering (though granted Darby seems to have stymied him in the physics department).Marc X made the error of returning from periods of absence in an attempt to offer rebuttals to attacks on his claims, and to try to dodge and justify and explain his way out of too many loopholes. In the end he failed.
He was finally exposed, as someone tracked him down (the giveway being the “c” at the end of his first name, which made his whole name actually uncommon) and located him as a college student in a north mid-west university. But as a prankster he did a good job, provided the most entertaining thread I ever recall seeing on this BBS (outside of the “Oh My God” forum), and certainly stimulated many to think.
I haven’t been able to read every post in this thread, so I’m not sure if this has been mentioned. But John’s explanation of a “Russian invasion” of the U.S. is strikingly reminiscent of an obscure 1984 science fiction film called “Red Dawn”, which dealt with just such a theme. The idea seems so outlandish that I can only wonder if “time-traveller John” didn’t see that movie — cheesie as it was.[Edited by Philip Mistlberger on 03-24-2001 at 02:22 AM]
Posted by Barbara Clements on 03-24-2001 04:30 AM
Did anyone listen to Art’s show last night, he had a line open for TT’s. Did any call in? I had to go to sleep as I get up at 5am to go to work, so I wondered.
Posted by Mike Haley on 03-24-2001 05:26 AM
Thumbs downI am listening to the archive at the moment and am currently 2 hours into it. Well, most of the calls have been people claiming to be the Anti-Christ. Will the real Anti-Christ please stand up and smite the false ones with pillars of fire? Or, better yet, do so on the air. That would inspire some righteous ( or not-so-righteous ) fear.The few time travellers that called in really were not all that spectacular. None of them convincing, in my opinion. Especially the one that talked about time travelling vacations via pill, using nano-bots to send the body back in time. Sounds a little too much like that show “Time Trax”. Now, if someone were capable of time travelling into the near future, say 30 minutes, then come back and, on the air, tell everyone who would call and what they would say, then that would be interesting.Apparently, though, most time travellers come from 2008 and jump back to 2001 for some reason. Why 2001 is beyond me ( of course, we’re only 3 months into it ) when 4004 BC would be so much more interesting. In my opinion, at least.
Posted by Randy Empey on 03-24-2001 07:33 AM
Philip M:Why do you consider ‘Red Dawn’ an obscure science fiction film? Maybe we’re not thinking the same movie, but your mention of the russian factor is pretty telling. It might be speculative near-future, but it is more patriotism-fiction or guns-and-glory-feel-good-save-the-free-world than it is science fiction — nothing futuristic is involved at all. The pickup truck the main characters escape the opening scene in might be as old as the one Titor says he carries his time machine around in.ALL:I think the line between observations, theories, dreams, past experiences and good stories are blurred by both the medium here and the participants. So what? As long as ideas are exchanged, there is some intelligent dissembly & assembly going on and expressed possibilities are maximized, I think this kind of interchange is still healthy.Its long been my intuition that the facts and figures we struggle to learn in school aren’t the actual useful lessons we learn in school — its learning to learn, excercising our minds, that is the ultimate benifit. It was my hope that simmular results could be gained in threads of this type.And it has, yet ….Some of us have traveled so far, and gained so much in our ‘official’ educational journeys that its become a knee jerk reaction to shoot ‘impossible’ stories down. I bet amazing will power has been excercised to keep said knee-jerks to a minimum, they have still had their effects …Of course, I error in the other direction, and that has its own short comings … but, Javier, I am not being led of a cliff — If I plunge into the sea of imagination it is of my own free will.Critical thinking and analysis is needed and is doing good here, but lets not let it stop us from seeing the rest of the forest here.—-Then again, I was always one of those boring kids who read the text book (or whatever fiction I had brought from home) when the teacher left the room … (unless I was enlisted by the trouble makers to plan thier escape, but that is niether here nor there …)So, throw your spit wads … make fun of the teacher’s baldness and tie … prepare your rebbuttals of the establisment’s version of the facts … there is something to be learned from such actions too — just lets stop letting our knee-jerk reactions kick each other around.What does plausibility of a story have to do with the reality of events indicated in said story? Its not a one to one relationship, I am sure — is there enough correlation to back our claims of validity or invalidity without reasonable doubts?
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-24-2001 07:46 AM
Great observations Randy! Anyone can call themselves a time traveler and be the catylst for lively discourse provided they do at least as good a job of it as JT did.Don’t get too hard on ‘Old Philip’. Talking pictures themselves were only rumors when he descended from the highlands of Tibet.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-24-2001 08:08 AM
Angryhttp://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=22090That news link might be very interesting to some who’ve been following some of the “predictions” here.It covers a report about Jane’s news – regarding the new “Russian Offensive”. With the expulsion of the 50-something-odd Russians who are supposed to be spies… well, this comes as no surprise to me, but welcome back to the Cold War of the 21st Century.My web site is still down, but is likely due to power outages.I will be starting a thread later today about something related to this stuff in the hopes we can continues some important discussions, and lacking the intellectual barbs. Just give me some time, because I have to run through all of the several hundred posts again.RickPS Javier… *I* wasn’t contacted either. But, instead of you trying to figure it out, why don’t you back off on that subject. The individuals who contacted me about it were upset and do not want to be known, hence the reason for NOT posting their names to begin with. Me thinks thou doth protest too much, so knock it off.[Edited by Rick Donaldson on 03-24-2001 at 08:29 AM]
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-24-2001 10:26 AM
John has not been seen or heard from here in this public forum since approximately page 40. Ten new pages, mostly barbs and personal attacks have occured since then.I have compiled all of the writing that has been done by John Titor, alledged Time Traveler and will be going through it today for “predictions”.Let me explain.John stated at one point he would not make any. In at least two other places he mentioned his reasons, or morals for not doing so.However… I find it very difficult myself to not make predictions.Let’s make a rash assumption that any one of us could travel back in time to, say 1979 and once there, we could answer any questions presented to us by that population with whom we would interact.At that point, people start asking you about the future. Though your personal rules keep you from making “predictions”, they do not stop you from answering well placed questions about yourself, the time travel aspect, and even perhaps some vague history of yourself (Future to everyone else).Within that aspect, you will give answers regarding the future that were either inadvertent or that you mistakenly considered “safe”.I place before you the supposition that John Titor, Alleged Time Traveler has done just so. In the thread I am about to open, we will discuss his information. Sometime today, I will post my list of possible predictions to a future Earth.Join me there for this discussion… and let’s keep this one open for the possibility John will post a good bye, or make an offer for me to fly down for his departure. (I’m still open to doing so).Rick
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-24-2001 12:25 PM
Rick,If I was still in the Military I may have to listen to you. But I’m not, so I won’t. Plus how can I protest to much about this, when I only mentioned it once?Anyway’s, I just woke up from a very strange Time Travel Dream. It was the year 2225, and it had to do with being a frozen cube. It was very weird .-J.C.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-24-2001 03:53 PM
The following message was forwarded to me from an anonymous source. I do not know why this person chose the venue he or she chose to attack me – which was through an innocent individual, but I don’t like it one bit.This is apparently one of the folks claiming military connections and asking folks to shut up. Well...
I don’t like cowards. I don’t people telling me to shut up either. If you want to talk to me, my email address is public. Feel free to write. I certainly want to hear from you in person. Until then, suffice it to say, I do not require ‘enlightenment’ from you or anyone else.As far as whether or not “is he or isn’t he” this is a free country in which I live so I am entitled to my opinion on this subject. I don’t care if you wrote every manual in the US government. You’re way off base attacking me, THROUGH someone else, and privately.You’re a coward.
Come out from hiding and admit who you really are instead of using innocent go-betweens. You haven’t a clue what you’re talking about when you refer to me. You also haven’t a clue what a “future manual” might look like, no more than I have a clue about it.You see… If John were from the future, and the items I’ve already posted on another thread are even remotely true, the government as you know it now, and publications standards ARE NOT what you think they are. So… smart ass – either come out in public, or shut up.In the mean time, answer me here – in Public.
And before I hear any bitching about “private email” remember this, you SENT IT TO ME THROUGH A THIRD PARTY – therefore it is MINE TO DO WITH AS I WISH, and I wish to release it to the public domain, right here on this board. Now… if you want a private debate, write me privately. Until then, keep your mouth shut and leave the middle people out of this.My Comments below, are in Parens:—– Original Message —–
From: <Name Blanked by Me>
To: <name Blanked by me>
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 2:23 PM
Subject: Let’s help Rick out, shall we?
<Name Blanked by me>
Sigh. Sorry to trouble you again. Please do “Rick Donaldson” a favor and forward this text on to him.
Thanks.
—
Rick,
This is a private note to you. I trust that <Name Blanked by me> will keep it in confidence also.
(That person did… I chose not to)
Now, your claims of government service allowing you to be knowledgeable about “tech pubs” – just what exposure did you have to them? Was it a tech pub for swivel chair maintenance?
(Nope… my background is documented well, in several places, you apparently didn’t bother yourself to read them)
As a civilian who grew up an Army brat only to marry a spouse who spent twenty years, combined, in the military and the private military aerospace arena and during which time I went into the publishing world where I ended up working on military technical publications for a while, I find your lack of knowledge (and gullibility) striking. So allow me to privately enlighten you.
(As a civilian huh? Funny… you’re in the “publishing world”. As a matter of fact, so am I. As a matter of fact, I worry about many THOUSANDS of documents. As a matter of FACT I’m neither gullible nor am I lacking in knowledge. Nothing I’ve stated to this point on this BBS is inaccurate in any sense of the word. Your insults from someone so obviously “enlightened” trouble me though, since you obviously do not belong in the job you’re in now, especially if you have a clearance… tell me who you are so we can take care of that forthwith.)
Considering the subject at hand is purported to be such a high level technical device which, by its very nature, would potentially put lives in danger with each use (much like an aircraft), its manual format WILL BE in compliance with the highest available mil-specs and standards. Not only that, MULTIPLE MANUALS ARE CREATED by the military contractor, for said device, in different actual physical sizes for such technical devices covering many aspects of said devices – not just one.
(WILL BE in compliance with WHOSE standards? Yours? Certainly not. You obviously are from the year 2001. Funny how everyone wants to put their standards on someone like John. I don’t believe John is a time traveler any more than you apparently do, on the other hand… at least I’m open minded enough to discuss the subject, something you’re afraid to do in public. Your standards are for you, not for John. Get over it).
The private contractor who manufactured the device for the military would be required to rigidly adhere to those specs and standards for the accompanying technical publications as a requirement and condition of having been awarded a contract for manufacturing such a device…”lowest bidder” my ass. That has nothing in the world to do with mil-spec compliance which the government takes very seriously. The teams of degreed Engineers, Tech Writers, Drafts Persons, Graphic Artists, CAD Operators, Computer Programmers, Word Processor Operators, Technical Proofreaders et. al., responsible for putting these highly complicated books together, who take their responsibilities very seriously, thank you for your insulting remarks.
(Assuming the same ‘rigid standards’ exist in John’s time frame. The truth is, these rigid standards are subject to changes locally on ALL documentation, and errors ABOUND in them. I see them every day and I KNOW FOR A FACT THEY EXIST WITH ERRORS. Please come down from your perfect world and join the rest of us in reality. My so-called insulting remarks are nothing compared to yours so far. I’m telling the truth, you’re an example of someone in denial. As far as “lowest bidder – my ass” goes.. well, the lowest bidder who got the contract does follow whatever standards are in place at the time. However, the LOWEST BIDDER STILL GETS THE CONTRACT – so, they are thereby just as limited as anyone else, what with cost overruns, budget reductions to get rid of extra people on a job so they can make a profit and so forth. So don’t give me any crap about it being “mil spec” because the government says so. I KNOW what the government requires, and I also know what gets past the technical writers as well.)
A typical cover/title page for any such manual SHOULD, by mil-specs and standards, resemble _something_ like this (see below), no two ways around it.
(Should, again according to YOUR specifications. Not to those in John’s “Time Frame”. I’m sorry but you’re putting yourself further and further into a hole here. Remember – John is alledgely from 2036, a few years AFTER a nuclear war. I’m certain – I’m POSTIVE that people after such a thing are not going to adhere to YOUR standards simply because YOU say so.)
For the technical publication itself (including cover/title page), mil-spec requirements for everything (right down to the minimum card stock quality) include:
Fonts to be used, font sizes (in the point system used by publishers), text spacings, line spacings, margin widths, justifications (left, center or right, depending), decimal point lineups, how “figures” (illustrations, etc) are numbered and classified (not even present on the “document” in question, oh by the way), requirements for numbering of paragraphs (decimal system), page numbering system, character string identifiers required to be present at the bottom of each and every page (not even present on the “document” in question, oh by the way)…
…and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, AND ON, AD NAUSEUM are laid out in NUMEROUS SEPARATE GOVERNMENT MANUALS written specifically for contractors ON HOW TO WRITE THE TECH PUB that would have you going blind and pulling your hair out before you have read and learned it all.
(Technical manuals and technical orders are already difficult to read, they are so blasted difficult for the guys in the field they don’t even use them. Truth be told, if I had to take out a manual to repair a radio, by following the instructions therein, I would not get it repaired. I set them aside and use my talents for troubleshooting before I would read one of YOUR technical manuals. ANYONE who has EVER used an Air Force Technical Order knows PRECISELY what I am talking about! So get off your high horse.)
Not to mention the fact that tech pubs are ALWAYS in a binder system to accommodate the insertion of the inevitable revisions and changes, and replacement of damaged pages. Where are the page holes if the pages were removed for copying?
(You’re right, they are in binder systems. IF they are technical orders. However, guess what? The Army from 1932 through 1960-something published manuals in BOOKS. They weren’t in binders. Guess what? They have started doing so again. Only the Air Force has a standard binder. Inevitable revisions and changes… you mean – AD NAUSEUM again, don’t you? If there are prefect manuals out there, then why the hell are there so many changes all the time? Think about it… perfect manuals mean there should never be corrections – which is what almost EVERY SINGLE PAGE I’VE EVER FILED IN AN EXISTING MANUAL ARE THERE FOR! CORRECTIONS TO MISTAKES FOUND BY THE GUYS IN THE FIELD!!!!!!!!)
That cover page and content “evidence” for the “time machine” looks like it’s from a high school book report! It’s not even close to being in mil-spec compliance in any way shape or form. Dear God, when you go to work on Monday, lay your hands on a real technical publication – if you have the clearance to do so – and look at it. Examine the format carefully. How it’s assembled. Notice the character string identifiers all over the place, etc., etc., etc.
( I never said it WAS A TIME MACHINE MANUAL. I never said it was in compliance with mil-spec either. I said I had experts looking at it. MY EXPERTS have since been appraised of this entire forum and are reading it. THEY tell me that not only is is POSSIBLE but ” … who knows what the technical standards for the future might be? I <the guy answering me> do not know one way or another, but my opinion is it isn’t a time machine and isn’t a real manual.” Happy??? I don’t know what your problem is, but I’ve got as many, if not MORE resources to ask about this stuff as you do. So back off. By the way.. you AND my folks only have a couple of pages, not the original manual. I defy ALL of you to make an accurate determination from a PHOTOCOPY that was THEN SCANNED into the computer on binding, or anything else! Not only can you NOT decide it isn’t real, you can NOT DECIDE IT IS REAL.)
If you REALLY knew what the technical publications looked like for a high level device (system), you most certainly would have tossed this ridiculous “is he or isn’t he” speculation out the window, oh, about 2 seconds after viewing the “time machine” pages, like I did.
(No, I wouldn’t have done such a thing. Again, you’re applying whatever mediocre standards of yourself to me. The difference between me and you is an open mind. Yours is obviously closed and you suffer a severe case of denial. I’m sorry for your security clearance, but when reality sets in, you will be safely out of the system and away from any government sites. Your most obvious problem is an ego the size of Seattle. Perhaps you need an Ego-quake to put you in your place.)
Good Luck.
TYPICAL STYLE FOR TECH PUB COVER/TITLE PAGE
INCLUDING VARYING FONT SIZES: 24, 18, 14 & 8 POINT:
___________________________________________________
“SECURITY CLASSIFICATION”
XX-XXX-XX-X (PUB # HERE)
__________________________
VOLUME #/PART # REVISION#
TECHNICAL MANUAL
(TYPE OF PUB HERE – MAINTENANCE,
OPERATION, ETC.)
(NOMENCLATURE OF EQUIPMENT HERE)
(SUBTITLE HERE)
(NAME OF MANUFACTURER OF EQUIPMENT, AND GOVERNMENT CONTRACT NUMBER HERE)
***
(INSERT APPROX. 2-INCH SIZE “BRANCH OF SERVICE” SEAL HERE)
***
(SUPERCEDURE NOTICE HERE)
(SUPPLEMENT NOTICE HERE)
(DISCLOSURE NOTICE HERE)
(DISTRIBUTION STATEMENT INCLUDING RESTRICTIONS HERE)_____________________________________________(This is indeed similar to SOME manuals the government uses, but, it isn’t similar at ALL to some that we use today. Matter of fact, I have several non-standard manuals that more conform to John’s manual than to yours, but they are all classified and I can’t even SHOW YOU the format. So put that in your pipe and smoke it with whatever else you’re already smoking.)[Edited by Rick Donaldson on 03-24-2001 at 04:07 PM]
Posted by John Titor on 03-24-2001 06:19 PM
I will be leaving this worldline shortly and this will be my final post. There are only a handful of people who will know exactly when I will be leaving and I’m sure they will let you know when I’m gone.
In the last few days I have found your choice of topics quite interesting and from an objective viewpoint I think it collectively answers one of your own questions, “If time travel is real, where are all the time travelers?” In the past, I have stated that quite frankly, you all scare the Hell out of me and I’m sure other temporal drivers would feel the same. But now I have an expanded explanation with two examples.
A while ago (on one of the posts), I related an experience I had with my parents while we were driving down a highway. Every now and then, we would pass someone who was in obvious distress with their vehicle. I was amazed that so many people could pass them by without stopping to help. Their explanation was fear. The risk of helping someone was too great and with today’s technology, they probably had a cell phone anyway. If they didn’t, the walk to a gas station would be good for them and teach them a lesson for running out of gas.
The other example is the plight of the homeless. When you pass them as individuals on the street I see the way people selectively choose an alternate path to avoid them.
Those two examples best define why time travelers do not show themselves. In trying to help you, we put ourselves as great risk and there’s really no point to it. We know the nature of time dictates that traveling between “exact” worldlines is impossible. Therefore, the only results we will see will be the ones we stay to see. Since worldlines, outcomes and events are infinite, we have better things to do. When I arrive in the “new” 1998 worldline on my way home I could easily start all of this again and continue to go through the same conversations with all of the same people. However, I already know you won’t pay any attention or believe me because we’ve already been through it on this worldline. Besides, I think the walk to the gas station will do you some good.
*****************************************************************************************
The following are the last questions I saw before my “going home” post. I apologize for not being able to get to all of them.
ROBERT:((Do most of the people of that time die out, especially ones that currently have health problems?))Yes, and people are still dying and a great deal of them are passing from CJD. As I said, with my very first few posts almost 6 months ago, I want to emphasize how devastating this will be. I believe two people are confirmed dead in Colorado from CDJ from surgical instruments. Ahhhh, the power of cheese. Milk does a body good and beef is what’s for dinner!
Me: “No, I have not tried any fast food. Thinking about where the food came from, how it was shipped and treated absolutely terrifies me. I have tried to tell people about CJD disease and it seems to be “catching on” in Europe.”
Me: Do not eat or use products from any animal that is fed and eats parts of its own dead.
Me: The “Mad Cow” story here is yet to begin…((Is it possible that sometime in your future or in your present time that time travel will be commonplace?))Yes, that is absolutely possible and eventual.((Have any of the scientists of your time discovered any new planets, possibly ones with life?))Not that I’m aware of.((Has the bandwidth of the Internet increased greatly?))Yes.((And finally, one last question…how did Texas fare during the war?))Texas is still there but Spanish is a lot more popular.DAN:((How does time travel affect our future (no pun intended) exploration of the universe? It seems that the greatest obstacles in our way right now are a matter of energy (propulsion technology) and economic feasibility. It seems to me that time travel technology could neatly takes care of both.))There is a great deal of debate about trying to use a distortion unit to “travel” to the moon. The experiment would require very precise calculations that would allow the VGL system to find a theoretical path to the moon on a different world-line. The only problem is there is no way to communicate with anyone if the experiment should succeed. In other words, it’s possible to do it but only the people on the receiving end could take advantage of it.DAVID:((My oldest son wanted me to ask if you have any siblings.))No, I am an only child.((Also, are you still planning on broadcasting your departure via a broadcast over the Internet? That would be quite interesting.))My father will be videotaping the departure. I appreciate Rick’s offer but my primary concern is the anonymity of my family. In addition, my departure will be in a somewhat public place and I do not want to draw additional attention to myself. At no fault of his own, I would also submit that Rick’s involvement would not add any credibility to the event.((Is there still an NCAA basketball tournament in 2036, and if so, has it expanded from its current 64-team format?))Yes, we still play basketball but I am not a fan and can’t comment on its organization.ALBERT:((Interesting anyway, hoped you used some of the links.
Thanks.))Yes I did, thank you.JOE:((You say that you wear some kind of flight suit like coveralls when you are time traveling and that you experience 2 g’s for 6-8 hrs. How is it possible to withstand that kind of g-force for such a long period without the use of an anti-g suit?))The average human can take 2 G’s without too much difficulty. Blackout occurs at about 8 or 9 Gs and redout occurs at negative 3 Gs.((I know you must be physically trained for space travel, but you should also have the benefit of equipment to help you out.))We are encouraged to stay physically fit.EMMETT:In an effort to address Emmett’s comments, (and in all fairness) the following posts are out of context and not in order. If I’m not a real time traveler I would suggest that Emmett is at a disadvantage on his tactics to “expose” me.
If I present a picture of a sea monster to you and I claim it’s real you are forced to argue its validity on the basis of the evidence that I present or create. Under these circumstances, you can’t win. If you look at the picture and argue that sea monsters should have more teeth or their incisors are not in proportion to the amount of fish they eat, it’s easy to ask you how you know so much about sea monsters if they don’t exist. Granted, you could point to dinosaur skeletons and make comparisons. But I can still say, its not a dinosaur, it’s a sea monster. In fact, I could even “whip” up some tooth marks on a piece of petrified wood and prove to you don’t know anything about sea monsters.((I realize that you haven’t given “all of the technical details” of the device…so, the reparte has been fun. But your device, as described, simply won’t work.))If you don’t have all the details, how do you know it doesn’t work?((Honestly, I’m not upset about any of this…and the only emotion involved for me is joy. This is fun! It really is.)Joy?
Emmett drew the following assumptions from our conversation and I don’t believe I said any of them.((The universe that you described, that is, one where mass is accelerated to light speed and forms a singularity doesn’t exist.))
((1. As you accelerated to light speed in your machine you and your machine formed a black hole.))
((2. From your perspective as you accelerated to light speed every other object in the universe formed a black hole due to your relative velocities))
((Take a close look at the technical drawing. Look especially at the left and right end perspectives. Not the same – very poor quality CAD for a billion dollar project.))A billion? How do you know it’s a CAD drawing?((If you have contact with Boomer please attempt to verify the elapsed time (on his internal chronometer) for his trip from 2036 to 1975. I need that data for a calculation.))The first leg takes me to 1998. I think I said that quite a few times.((He also said that the mass of the singularities is that of a “small mountain”.))If that were true, the unit could not be moved. I only refrenced the mass of a small mountain in one of our physics conversations. In fact, I believe I said the mass for the singularities in the distortion unit was much smaller.((The last time I checked the physics I didn’t see an “on-off” switch for a black hole or any other singularity.))Me neither. I don’t believe I said you could turn it on or off.((At 2 g acceleration you will be traveling just a tad faster than a Chevy pick-up in short order (about one year to reach light speed).))This is the one that really disappoints me. Even you should know that Einstein’s thought experiment in the isolated elevator was based on the idea that the effects of acceleration and gravity are the same. I never said acceleration had anything to do with how the unit operates.((Does it really make sense that his handlers would authorize a personal vacation with their billion-dollar machine?))I’m looking at my orders and I don’t see the word vacation on it anywhere. You had my hopes up for a moment. Interesting how quickly a billion-dollars has become a fact now.((And, though he’s never said that he hasn’t let anyone else come close to the machine, who took the picture of his two hands in one of the photos?))When did I say that? I’ll have to let Pamela explain the laser pointer picture. She may already have posted the email I sent earlier.
Here are a few other comments I found interesting:((The answer to the question, “How does a person born in 1998 use the language…?” is – who knows?))I agree. How would you know?((The two yellow caution tapes on the device are misaligned. Sloppy workmanship.))I’ll have to point that out to my “handlers” when I get back.((I suppose that if you were interested in verification of Boomer’s science that you could go right to the source, Dr. Frank Tipler, Tulane University, for an interview.))He’s a very pleasant gentleman. I highly recommend his book, The Physics of Immortality. I believe I made reference to this earlier.((…what would prevent we, the enemy state, from returning the machine to 2036 with a suitcase nuclear device onboard?))This is the second time I’ve seen a reference to the unit as a weapon. I would submit that the people of this worldline have nothing to fear from me. What would you do with the unit?((J.C. …I like the way Darby thinks))Now there’s an endorsement.
For more information on black holes and sigularities, I did find this site.
http://www.rdrop.com/users/green/school/primordi.htm
In your opinion, what is the smallest mass that can form a singulairty? Even Hawking suggested primordial singularities were created at the Big Bang. Were there planets (or half planets) around to form them then?
Based on your ability to draw conclusions about someone’s profile from their typed words I find it hard to believe you would make such errors in the syntax and meaning of the exact same words. Unfortunately, you have now maneuvered yourself into a position where I have the last word and our debate must has come to an end. Boomer isn’t a bad name and I sort of like it. Thanks TarBaby.JAY:((If there were an infinite number of realities, then there would necessarily arise a reality that somehow causes there to be no other realities. In fact, an infinite number of such realities would have to arise that cause there to be no other realities.))Yes!! Excellent insight. I would have enjoyed a conversation on this.
I’m really going to miss my friend J.C. Although I did find a buried layer of truth and dedication in what his message was he never failed to make me smile in his attempt to make it. I couldn’t help but post a few choice comments he’s made over the last few months.((Further more, my identity in the future would most likely be changed… Nevertheless, if you have been to the future, you know who I am. No doubt about that… ))
((Just start naming historical figures in your “time” or stop saying that you are a time traveler.))
((Hey, listen up… As a Time Traveler to the future my self, I have seen the uniforms. I have even put one on. Therefore, if TimeTraveler_0 <JOHN> can offer us a picture of his uniform as proof, I will verify it’s legitimacy with the one I wore.))
((And about GW Bush, I don’t know what to tell you. Although I have an uncle that looks like him.))
((How many times have I said to band Time Travel?))
(( And oh, that unknown variable, it’s me. You didn’t plan on encountering resistance. Especially a TimeTravelActivist. Hey this sounds more like something that would happen at the end of a Scobby Do cartoon. “You rotton kids…”))
(( So in retro-pects, I sense you have anger in me, for having morals and a sense of ethics on this issue of Time Travel.))
((What do you have to lose that you haven’t already messed up already.))
((I mean no disrespect, but you don’t seem to have the wisdom that I would expect someone from an advanced future would have. Your ideals are to liberal, much like in the 70’s where things were all about Sex, drugs and free love. Nasty…))
((I have been trying not to attack anyone since my return. And look at you, you hypocrite. Calling me an “agitator.”))
((Which is probably why so many people believe your story. But your not Anti-Time Travel like me. None of you have ever been manipulated by a Time Travelers plan for 21 years. Which is not to say they are, and you just don’t know it.))This one is my favorite.((I’d just like to say, before John Titor, (A.K.A. TT_0 in the post where he’s been taken out almost) that when he posts, he does a maneuver that focuses the question back to the receiver, as to have him think it’s been answered, and to shut him up. (Which in fact, he just avoided answering it, by doing what he did). He does this very often, and I’d just wanted to point that out before he did it again.))
((By the way, not to be picky or anything. But I know how perfect you like to have things with your writing. I just wanted to point out that you misspelled CHOOSEN. It’s Chosen, with one O.))
((Some Yang will always exist to oppose some Ying.))
((A person doesn’t have to be aggressive to be a @&^$#%. As you can tell, he’s been using his superior intellect, to manipulate and control his agenda here. Or am I the only one who can see that?))Here are a few other things I found in our general conversations which might be worth repeating:
Me: “By that time, it was pretty clear that we were not going back to what we had and the division between the “cities” and the “country” was well defined. My father made a living by putting together 12-volt electrical systems…”
I believe it was a few days ago I saw a news story about potential problems with power that “might” affect the entire United States. Where do you think they’ll turn it off first when push comes to shove?
Me: “ However, there are a great many “non lethal” weapon systems in development that turn out to be quite lethal.”
Anyone for microwave popcorn?
Me: If you push a farmer too far, they stop growing food and have nothing to do but hide in the woods and shoot back.”Second Vermont Sheep Herd Seized
By Wilson Ring
Associated Press Writer
Friday, March 23, 2001; 10:42 a.m. EST
EAST WARREN, Vt. –– Federal agents early Friday seized a second flock of Vermont sheep suspected of having been exposed to a form of mad cow disease.
Friday, March 23 9:08 PM SGT
Britain extends culling of healthy animals to whole country
LONDON, March 23 (AFP) –
Britain stepped up its fight against foot-and-mouth disease Friday, announcing measures to slaughter animals throughout the country and not just in three targeted areas.I also want to thank Pamela for helping me with the email and everyone else who asked intelligent and insightful questions. I have learned a great deal.
My parting thought revolves around something J.C. has been harping on since day one. No, I do not have a secret agenda but I have been paying a great deal of attention to your world-line. My interaction with you was not a direct mission parameter but it was a secondary mission protocol based on standing orders given to all temporal drivers. That secondary objective is basically to gather as much information about a worldline based on a set of observable variables when we first arrive. Your worldline met those conditions. What amazes me is why no one here wonders why Y2K didn’t hit them at all?
Bring a gas can with you when the car dies on the side of the road.
Farewell.
John
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-24-2001 07:01 PM
Oh come on John, even in the end you still try to buy into people emotions in hopes that this will be their last chance to believe you. I feel sorry for those that do. Farewell John, but you only brought this upon your self. I was only asking the questions no one was asking.-J.C.P.S. you said you were out of Town, but I’ll bet you were watching for a few days since you been back. You won’t be leaving till the 11th of April. Am I to believe you will still keep watching?
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-24-2001 07:12 PM
Ahh my hypothetical comments to you. I almost forget about them. Seems to me like a crawling maneuver. Last chance to get me back for all those months of asking the questioning no one was asking, uhh ? You sound bitter John. Bitter that the end didn’t come the way you expected?Don’t be a sore loser, and leave slapping and whining. That’s just not what a future major does? Or is it ? Have a nice life John. I mean that, sincerely I do. I just regret you couldn’t have been sincere as well.[Edited by Javier Cortez on 03-24-2001 at 07:15 PM]
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-24-2001 07:37 PM
John – I said this in another thread. Good luck, where ever you might end up… and no matter what time line it happens to be.I do not believe for a second that you’re going anywhere in a time machine, and as a matter of fact, my observation of said departure WOULD lend credibility to your story. You don’t have any IDEA how much credibility it would add. Some people do understand that, but, unfortunately, the one who needs to understand it, doesn’t. Such is life, and missed opportunities.If you ARE a time traveler – and you DO go back to 1998, I’m more than willing to listen to you then, as I am now. If you forward that email to me in that year, you can bet your ass on the fact, I will post it. That means it will show up on my web site after you depart our time line. With the right dates on the file name…. I’m making a note to myself to look for it.If it does not show up… then you aren’t what you said you were.Good luck.Rick
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-24-2001 08:01 PM
Well, as I understand it, there are still people alive, including everyone looking or involved. So, we all have to live it!This makes such a topic ‘picky’. (Emotionally Inebriated).Twilight Zone.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-24-2001 08:06 PM
Well, as I understand it, there are still people alive, including everyone looking or involved. So, we all have to live it!
This makes such a topic ‘picky’. (Emotionally Inebriated).
Twilight Zone.A little humor, my feeling, if you can not, then be prepared for a world that’s could be quite terrible.
Most of the time, whether anyone will agree or not, people usually get what they wish for, but in a form, that may not be agreeable with the viewpoint of the person making the wish.Make sure you really are knowing what you are really wishin’ for.And you may want to break apart the ‘chicken bone’ before there is none left.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-24-2001 08:30 PM
Well Rick, it’s good to understand how much respect and influence people here think you have. Just make sure you use that responsibly, and try and see both sides of an issue. Or else, we may end up bumping heads in a many discussions. After all, I have mentioned time after time, how much I dislike opportunist and those that exploit people.But personally, I respect you, and think you can be as much a passionate person like my self when it comes to certain issues.Just a tad disappointing how much you endorse John like you do… Or brown nosing? Either way, John is gone now. What he’s left behind will be people’s gospel. Sad but true. Well, it’s a good thing this board has a TimeTravelActivist . To ensure that the other side that never gets talked about, does.Sincerely,Javier C.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-24-2001 08:31 PM
John, you scare the ‘heck’ out of us. And this ‘connection timed out’ is really scary, and its not even Halloween.Can I post a message without it double posting because of this, can I, can I?
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-24-2001 08:32 PM
Bye John, it’s been grand.
Thanks for starting a thread that has been amusing, thought provoking and a darn good read. I have met many people here that I like and hope to meet again on other boards.Here’s hoping you make good time,Lola[Edited by Lola Montez on 03-24-2001 at 08:48 PM]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-24-2001 09:36 PM
Bye, bye John. Going to another worldline to show this stuff?The Beginning of Timehttp://www.hawking.org.uk/lectures/lindex.htmlWelcome to Professor Stephen Hawking’s website.http://www.hawking.org.uk/home/hindex.htmlTime?
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-25-2001 12:03 AM
Explanation of laser picture:The machine is in the back and that is a picture of John’s instructor demonstrating how the machine effects the light beam while on low power. you can see it bending the beam.
. Laser light distorted by the gravity field!
The cigar smoke was blown on the lasar beam to cause the beam to be seen better. John was in the drivers seat and took the picture. His instructor was in the passenger seat.John,goodbye my friend…safe journey home.perhaps we shall meet again??In another Time, another Place…and the journey continues…………………..I will think of you everytime I see a rainbow.your friend throughout time,Pamela[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-25-2001 at 12:15 AM]
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-25-2001 12:12 AM
Actually that laser looks more like a bent red wire to me. But I guess everyone believe it’s a bent laser, and that the cigar smoke is to make it be seen well.Pamela,What do you mean good-bye? You know your one of the select few he’s keeping in touch with until he leaves . So John is a real Time Traveler according to you now?-J.C.[Edited by Javier Cortez on 03-25-2001 at 12:24 AM]
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-25-2001 01:44 AM
John’s document can be seen here. I feel it is important to be viewed before the 26th.I suggest viewing it right away…never know how long it will be up before it cannot be viewed anymore for “mysterious” reasons.I am sorry it was not available to be seen when it was given to me.http://content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=get_album&ID_Community=MagiForums&ID_Topic=3sincerely,pamela
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-25-2001 07:20 AM
Nationwide Assurance is not a mistake on the document.I had never heard of it before and researched it i always heard of Nationwide insurance. but i did research it and found that this insurance agancy does exist.This is from here: http://www.bestreview.com/2000-06/corporatechange.html (about half way down) Colonial Insurance Company of Wisconsin (Madison, Wis.), Columbus, Ohio. Effective April 30, the title was changed to Nationwide Assurance Co.sincerely,pamela[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-25-2001 at 08:00 AM]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-25-2001 10:17 AM
WARNING!This thread may or may not contain hazards to your health.It may or may not already contain radioactive material.This warning has been placed here for your protection.Before use, read the instructions.
Seventh of multiple Posts
This post is the seventh of a series of posts related to John Titor. The other posts are;
Commentary
Again, there are elements of sublime truth in the words of “John Titor”, as well as evidence of a hoax. Certainly, some of what he said rings true to my experiences in MAJestic, but the elements of falsehoods are disturbing to me.
As it stands, he is the only other person who is able to suggest and describe a system of operation, purpose and objective of all the many people and vehicles that seemingly pop in and out of our reality. This alone has merit. Thus, this is why he is placed herein in this blog.
Conclusion
Our reality is not what we think it is. I am not the only person who has disclosed that there are others, and other organizations that can enter and leave our reality at will. Another person who made this claim went by the name John Titor.
Only where as, I claim to be part of MAJestic and was employed as part of human sentience management, John Titor claimed to be a person who was part of another world-line. Together, we both claim that the MWI is real, and we utilize it to perform dimensional egress for our own purposes.
I claim that it is a tool that is used to manage human sentience evolution.
John Titor claims that he utilized the time variable to conduct acquisition activities in the past.
He claimed that on that world-line, the United States was fundamentally different after a rapid series of events in the late 1990’s. He claimed that he needed to perform some acquisition of certain technical devices through the use of the time-variance option in dimensional travel.
This is the seventh of a multi-part post.
Take Aways
John Titor claimed to be a time traveler.
He utilized dimensional travel to move in and out of the baseline reality.
As such, he visited our world-line to acquire some technology needed on his world-line.
That technology was produced in “our” past. Thus the idea that it involved “time travel”.
MAJestic Related Posts – Training
These are posts and articles that revolve around how I was recruited for MAJestic and my training. Also discussed is the nature of secret programs. I really do not know why the organization was kept so secret. It really wasn’t because of any kind of military concern, and the technologies were way too involved for any kind of information transfer. The only conclusion that I can come to is that we were obligated to maintain secrecy at the behalf of our extraterrestrial benefactors.
MAJestic Related Posts – Our Universe
These particular posts are concerned about the universe that we are all part of. Being entangled as I was, and involved in the crazy things that I was, I was given some insight. This insight wasn’t anything super special. Rather it offered me perception along with advantage. Here, I try to impart some of that knowledge through discussion.
Enjoy.
MAJestic Related Posts – World-Line Travel
These posts are related to “reality slides”. Other more common terms are “world-line travel”, or the MWI. What people fail to grasp is that when a person has the ability to slide into a different reality (pass into a different world-line), they are able to “touch” Heaven to some extent. Here are posts that cover this topic.
John Titor Related Posts
Another person, collectively known by the identity of “John Titor” claimed to utilize world-line (MWI egress) travel to collect artifacts from the past. He is an interesting subject to discuss. Here we have multiple posts in this regard.
From the late 1990’s until around 2001, the Internet was “rocked” by the sudden appearance and subsequent disappearance of a Mr. John Titor. This person claimed to be a “time traveler” by using inter-dimensional travel. Here is the john titor post history.
He was rapidly dismissed as a hoax, in unity, by all the major debunking organizations, and his posts mysteriously disappeared off the Internet. Since then, all the sources that he posted on all found that their files related to John Titor were all corrupted and could not be reclaimed.
That was the case for over a decade.
Then, in 2014, a number of private individuals managed to piece together independently saved dialogs relating to John Titor. They constructed numerous websites that hosted these reclaimed dialogs, and posted them on the Internet for others to view.
Metallicman is one such website.
Presented here are recovered posts from the Internet collected in 2014. It is not known if any posts have been deleted or altered. They are presented as they were found by the author.
Due to the large size of the transcripts, I have broken it down into multiple pages. Here is the second group “Transcripts B”. Within it are some very interesting tidbits that many enthusiasts of the John Titor issue are unaware of.
Important Warning
The information within this series of posts are speculative. I have no factual information if this John Titor is what he claimed to be. It is presented herein as the only (or maybe, one of the only) sources that claim to be associated with the vehicles that pop in and out of our reality from time to time.
He was, as far as I know, never associated with MAJestic in any way.
Original John Titor Posts – Part 6 – Transcripts B
Here are the original John Titor posts from the Post2Post Art Bell Forum. Obtained from HERE. This is the second group of the john titor post history.
John Titor dialog is in normal text in brown color, text by others are italicized.
When referencing other non-Titor questions, green color is used.
Purple color is for non-related text.
Metallicman comments are in red color.
Metallicman corrected spelling and some punctuation to make the text easier to read and understand. For unedited text, please refer to the source.
I also added some commentary to liven things up somewhat. Enjoy.
Posted by Bob Marz on 02-22-2001 09:14 AM
John Titor:It’s comforting to know miracles still occur in the future as well as the distant past. I refer to your report on the Aussies repelling a Chinese invasion.How come it doesn’t bother you that people may die through your inaction yet you find it “morally wrong” that you might affect lives by active involvement?
Isn’t it just as morally wrong to affect lives through inaction as it is through action? Hint: The answer is YES.One of the issues that runs throughout your posts is this moral ambiguity. You’ve thought it through enough to decide it boils down to personal decision (which should liberate you from further qualms) yet you still say you dare not decide who “deserves” to (live or) die.
In other words you’ve made the intellectual realization but it hasn’t yet trickled down into your everyday life/actions. IE, Since good/evil are subjective/relative, depending on circumstance and viewpoint, you aren’t required to possess precognition to discern all present or future ramifications of any lives you may save either by action/inaction.
Your immediate decision, in itself, is its own authority.
In the basic life versus non-life equation you should choose to support life. Further confusion, such as (as you said) whether you’re qualified to determine who deserves to live or die, is outside your sphere of influence, therefore you’re not responsible for such a decision. But, here’s the crux, rather than decide to simply remain uninvolved, you should simply move in the direction of life-affirming action.
If good and evil achieve a balance in the larger picture, as you suspect, and all life is “God” experiencing physical manifestation, the question of you being required to decide who lives or dies is moot.
What should motivate you is that which promotes this life process, a subset of which is experience/information/knowledge viability.
The fact that I couldn’t restrain myself from telling you this because I see you bumping your head against it constantly means, sadly, it’s non-experiential for you and probably obstructs your embracing this idea rather than facilitates it.“If you have not lived it, it is not true.
“The only real sin is that which obstructs the acquisition of knowledge.”
“Friend, listen. The God whom I love is inside.”Thanks for the ride, you’ve done a great job here.[Edited by Bob Marz on 02-22-2001 at 09:22 AM]
Posted by James R.Quayle III on 02-22-2001 09:51 AM
Thumbs upGuierdjeff,Ouspensky spoke of how humans will eventually need to go back in time and bring every wrong to right ,every hitler to moot.
Through tech or mind one will eventually give into the good,if one can travel through time then fixing things would be the new prime directive.
I would think,to take it upon oneself to right the wrongs if one can to protect the beautiful thing which is the fragile human life experience,to be loyal to this experience all we humans reading this go through(To nurture humans in what ever time one finds oneself into).
To awaken in a utopia because men and women went back and hinted and helped some who were to be swayed by evil to be strong and do what we all know is right.
Eventually we all have to get along on the planet.
Languages and culture/customs should not divide but unite through the randomness and difference in the others.
Perhaps telepathy would be a better communicational tool ,then what is currently being used on the planet.agentq3i would give my life to such a cause if i had a way to time travel consistantly and safely,through tech or Will(Magick),or doorways.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-22-2001 10:01 AM
John,I know some won’t like me for saying this, but like I said before in the other forum, I’m not here to be liked.I just wanted to say that there have been a few complaints from some who think your not answering their questions to their satisfaction. Now, before you would just say it’s me, and that I have these expectations in how you answer my questions.But as you can see, that was not the case, nor is it now with others.More people nowadays are coming forward that besides the technical questions being answered, your showing signs of just being general, vague, contradictive or just plain not knowledgeable in these other areas. Where as you say, you being a Time Traveler from the year 2036, you should know this.Just wanted to make it known to you, before you use your manipulative ways to make it seem like if you answered the question. But in fact, you haven’t. You reverse alot of what you answer. And you know it.Sincerely,Javier C.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-22-2001 10:08 AM
James R.Quayle III,
Yeah that’s the way to do it. That’s way better then doing it as something mankind should come together in an agreement on. Better then over coming our problems on our own, when there is an instant fix for it. Just change the past without them knowing it, for a future hidden agenda.(In case you had no idea, I was being sarcastic).-Javier C.
Posted by John Titor on 02-22-2001 10:44 AM
I will get to all the questions. I’m trying to comment on them in order. I’m posting the names before all the questions so if you feel I missed something just bring it up again.
I saw something last night that I want everyone’s opinion on. Its concerning two television commercials advertising the same cellular phone product. The first commercial I didn’t understand right away but the second was obvious.
In the first commercial, a man dressed in cold weather gear appears to be in a snowstorm. He’s on a cellular phone saying goodbye to his family as if he was going to die in the storm. We then see he is standing in front of a snow machine at a ski resort area.
In the second commercial, another man dressed in cold weather gear is talking on a cellular phone. We see a young women inviting him to a romantic evening. He seems a bit stunned and excited, hangs up the phone and runs off. We then see he has abandoned an unconscious person he was giving emergency medical treatment to.
What do you think of these commercials?
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-22-2001 10:49 AM
John – I think you live in an area that is being aimed because of a demographic profile. They would never run those kinds of ads in abig city. People would get fired up too easily.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-22-2001 12:14 PM
Spare us John, just say what your point is. Or is your point having people’s opinions on these commercials? And if so, would that fall under one of your agendas?
Posted by Lola Montez on 02-22-2001 12:17 PM
John,
At the risk of asking too many questions and taking up more than my share of cyberspace, please respond to one more train of thought. You refuse to give advice that might actually allow someone to dodge the bullet. I postulate that you actually do not have any more of an advantage or responsibility than the person who grabs someone who is about to step off the curb and get hit by a bus.
I would not stop and think ‘gee, I don’t know, do they deserve to be saved from the fate of a roadkill?’
A doctor or priest does not take it upon himself to decide who should be helped.
A jet pilot doesn’t stop to think “Hey, air travel is pretty unnatural, these people should have to walk and row their way to Paris.
I am messing with the way time and space is perceived and the nature of reality with this form of transportation.” Time travel is just another form of transportation in one sense. Our possible new ability to time travel in the future may not seem any more exotic than our ability to access other cultures is now.
Anyway, I think maybe your reluctance to elaborate is unwarranted.
What happens, happens and everything is experience. I have come to the place that there is no such thing as a bad experience just painful crash courses in personal growth.Lola
Lola
Posted by Lola Montez on 02-22-2001 12:25 PM
Bob,I did not see your post before I got my last one on. Seems we have similar attitudes about choice and responsibility. Also, about religion as experiential.John,Most ads are sick panderings to people’s insecurity, sex drive or greed. If it’s a really good ad it hits all three.Lola
Posted by Jim Houlahan on 02-22-2001 12:41 PM
John – Are you posting on other (non time travel related) boards without revealing your status as a time traveler? Is the conversation as interesting? What are your conclusions so far?
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-22-2001 12:45 PM
Lola and Bob – Very interesting. By the same token, why do we take the Prime Directive from Star Trek, for granted? It seems to have something to do with being able to operate with an unfair advantage. What is this about technology that seems to put the users at odds with natural law?What if John were to rescue someone who was about to be hit by a bus, and this person then went out to a bar that night and killed someone? That’s a general idea, I wonm’t load it up with more scenarios and examples.I’ve really enjoyed this thread guys. I would like to get a little closer to the buzz I first had, that this could be possibly true.John – I think you have answered this – are, or were, you in contact with TTs in 2036, and if so, what percentage of the people accept it as possible? After the flight of the Wright Brothers at Kitty Hawk, it took 10 plus years for people to accept it as anything more than just an urban myth.[Edited by Craig Cuthbert on 02-22-2001 at 12:52 PM]
Posted by Lola Montez on 02-22-2001 01:09 PM
Craig,
Maybe I missed your point, but mine was “how is John saving someone any different from our doing so?” I do not see him having an “unfair” advantage.
He did not time travel to kill Hitlers mother after all.
I guess that would be out of the 60 year limit but I imagine there is some bad guy that would fit the bill. Scientists and others are always making knowledgeable predictions but Southern California is still occupied. I doubt that John telling us what he sees coming would change very much of our behavior no matter how dire the information.
Although, I have seen some Star Trek episodes in the past I am not a Trekkie and am not familiar with Prime Directives.
Lola
Posted by Doug Beauchamp on 02-22-2001 01:28 PM
The Prime Directive in Star Trek is to explore space without interfering with any cultures not fully advanced in the area of space exploration. In short, it’s there to protect other cultures. Imagine if people from space came to our planet and gave us the secret of space exploration. Likewise, imagine if a time traveler from the future came to this time period and told us the secret of time travel.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-22-2001 02:02 PM
Did everyone forget that John has a secret agenda? No body knows if he’s killed anyone. So what if he seems like he’s not capable, because of the way he sounds. He is a soilder, a person trained to kill.
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-22-2001 02:28 PM
Lola – Sorry it was a quick post and it jumped across some of the mental references.What is the difference between someone like John saving somebody and someone like me saving somebody? (BTW I have saved somebody, LOL).The difference, of course is that John has (theoretically) come from the future with the assistance of some technology that is not native to our time. That’s where the correlation to the Prime Directive derives.
The real interesting question is the one you two raised. Why is this an issue? To me personnaly, its intrinsically poignant. It revolves around the same questions of technology that you could apply if you tried to go back in time with some modern weaponry and alter a particular battle.
Posted by Lola Montez on 02-22-2001 04:02 PM
Why is it different than using a jet to go to a primitive tribe and give them, say, antiobiotics. (never mind the problems with antibiotics)It is a high tech way of interfering with a culture. Who cares what time zone. Ethically isn’t it the same?[Edited by Lola Montez on 02-22-2001 at 04:27 PM]
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-22-2001 06:16 PM
I don’t think there are a lot of differences in that analogy. Though you have to ask whether going into a tribe and innoculating them would have unintended consequences, not the least of which would be – which has happened in real life – soldiers coming in and amputating the innocualted limb. That wasn’t just a story from Apocalypse Now.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-22-2001 11:05 PM
Hey John,Haven’t heard much from you today. You care to comment on what we’re talking about? I know it might be a bit far from your line of expertise, but your from the future. You should have something insightful to say about this, No?Well I can understand if you wish not to comment. I know the pressure in answering questions like this can really impose on your persona. Always selective and reserve in what you answer huh ?-Javier C.P.S. So are you going to have spectators watching you leave, or not? If so, can I come by with a few of my friends ?
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-23-2001 07:42 AM
Javier- I wasn’t really trying to be inspirational, only point out that sometimes for any understanding to occur, there needs to be a kid of base-line on where we begin an investigation. That is, we can postulate all we wish, but a theory must be in place, and several aspects of the experiment must be given a kind of non-variance in regards to belief. That is, if we do not believe ANYTHING we see or hear, we can never honestly learn, since nothing is believeable!That is my take on this. Sure, I don’t necessarily believe John is a time traveler, and I do understand that a debate (or argument if you prefer the term) prevents stagnation. Folks who blindly believe in anything that comes along are the same people that PT Barnam spoke about (ie “There’s a sucker born every minute”). I am certain no one here is a sucker, but, folks tend to want to go with the crowd. I don’t. You don’t. And John obviously doesn’t.I would suggest that if you asked 100 people about time travel 80% or more would say they think it is possible in SOME MANNER. 99% of them won’t have a clue about science either. So… given that we have a wide range of people and talents here, I give everyone his and her due where it comes to “believing”. If they wanna believe, that is THEIR perogitive. We really don’t need some hero to come along and “save us”.Expose the truth, yes. So keep up the good work. hahaJohn – commercials. They are ignorant commercials. In fact, almost every commercial on television these days are either totally stupid (so they come out funny), or they are aimed at people whose humor suffers from being “in the black” a lot. Black humor seems to be the way things go these days. I don’t much care for it.Javier – a comment about soliers. You’re correct. *I* am a solider first. I’ve been in the military 26 years now. I’ve been everything from an electronics teacher, to a team chief at the White House Communications Agency. I’ve seen combat (though not what most people think of as combat – fire fights in Central America). My “real job” as a reservist is the Non-Commissioned Officer in Charge (NCOIC) of a communications flight for a tactical airlift wing. I have computer, radio and cryptographers working for me. Our job.. main job is to make communications work.Every one of us have traveled someplace dangerous, and done jobs that most people wouldn’t DREAM of doing. In our civilian lives, we are all in computers or some other “less than dangerous career”. Every person that works for me can climb, run, survive, shoot… and kill. They all know how to do it from the newest Mom in our group to the oldest man (me). My 18 year olds are just as deadly in their jobs as the oldest guy (which is me).If I’m sent to do my job, I will. And killing is one part of it. Some people forget that a military member’s job is killing sometimes. It isn’t always their main job, but it is part of what goes with being a soldier, sailor, airman and marine. Many might balk when told they have to do it… but, they WILL do it when the time comes.
Anyone know why? Because it is called survival.If there is to be a war in our future, every man, woman and child now alive will become involved if it comes to OUR HOMEFRONT. That is, more than anything, what John has been saying I believe.Whether it will come or not is a different story.
It is MY duty to prevent a war. Even though I might be told to fight one, even against my own people – I won’t kill Americans. Nor will any other military member in the US Armed forces.So – to John… this is a kind of an answer to something you said earlier on. No, military people are not asked to sign anything saying they will kill anyone. It is either an urban legend that has been perpetuated in the past few years, or it really happened with one Marine platoon in 29 palms. I’ve had two men tell me they participated, and both say it happened, but it was NOT a military-wide thing.I’ve researched this. NO ONE HAS ANY DOCUMENTATION ON IT! That’s the facts. The fiction is what my side (the progun people) are pushing about the UN. But, that is another discussion for another time – and perhaps another place.
[I researched this (never take anyone's word for it.). There are more than just a few articles. Snopes, of course "proved" that this is not the case. Never the less, who believes SNOPES? They have been unmasked as a propiganda arm of the oligarchy.
"Former Navy SEAL Ben Smith warns that the Obama administration is asking top brass in the military if they would be comfortable with disarming U.S. citizens, a litmus test that includes gauging whether they would be prepared to order NCOs to fire on Americans." Read it HERE.
Original text, highlighted by Metallicman]Suffice it to say, the US Military will never turn on the people, we are sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic … and to obey the laws of the President and the Officers appointed above (us) me. That means the orders have to be LAWFUL. Think on that folks, as you consider your future actions.Rick Donaldson
Posted by John Titor on 02-23-2001 08:08 AM
((So – to John… this is a kind of an answer to something you said earlier on. No, military people are not asked to sign anything saying they will kill anyone. It is either an urban legend that has been perpetuated in the past few years, or it really happened with one Marine platoon in 29 palms.
I’ve had two men tell me they participated, and both say it happened, but it was NOT a military-wide thing.))
I agree the details are very important. My statement ended with a question mark. I made no difinitve statement.
“I’m not positive but don’t they sign a small piece of paper now asking them if they would have a problem with that?”
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-23-2001 08:25 AM
Rick,Wow, I had no idea you were in the Military. You don’t come off as an NCO. Well most of the ones I met were A-Holes. It’s good to know some nice people are in the Military after all .What branch and what rank, if you don’t mind me asking?-Javier C.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-23-2001 08:33 AM
Atleast we know John is here reading these. He’s just not answering .I have a question for you. Since your here, you won’t mind answering it.What did you anticipate when you came to these boards? What reason could you have to come here and spill your guts to the whole world who you are? I mean, did you think you would get people to listen to you. I think you knew you would…But I am picking up, that you have encountered a few things you didn’t anticipate. And it’s only becoming more apparent as the days go on.Now Military knows about you. Worried?What are your thoughts as you see your perfect little world you created with lies shatters into pieces?-Javier C.P.S. Answer my others questions too.[Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-23-2001 at 08:58 AM]
Posted by Filip Sandor on 02-23-2001 10:31 AM
QuestionI don’t see the need to bring out any BS o’meter; what are we going to prove? That it is not worth thinking seriously about what our time traveler friend has come to share with us? What is it going to change if we KNOW FOR CERTAIN whether John is really from the future? It will definately change SOMETHING (different for all of us), I know that much for sure, but I don’t think we need that sort of distraction at this point.Honestly, I believe that even if John answered all your questions correctly, Mike, it would change nothing of the essence of John’s message. I really think he is trying to tell us something; more than the fact that he is a time traveler. Now, if we could just pin-point what it is that he is trying to tell us; I literally mean, pin-point, or focus on. The message is clear, but we like to create lots of fog.Time travel is REAL.
Anyone who knows physics well or has listened to Art’s guest, Mr. David Anderson about a week ago, knows this.
[Some background for the reader...
DavidAnderson'sSpaceTimeTravelTheoryMoreAboutDavidAnderson - YourTimeTravelExperienceDr. David Lewis Anderson and timetravel., page 1
-Metallicman]The truth is we can run, but we can’t hide (from own actions). So why even bother, why not face what we are faced with? Even if we managed to get a knavish grip on a ‘magical’ time machine, what would it really change for us… unless we knew what to use it for?
It is irrelevant for us to have access to a time machine or to know which time John has come to visit us from when there are really more important things for us to think about, at least some of the time.
I am not saying we have to BELIEVE John to be a time traveler, that is irrelevant, but I think we should listen to his ideas about what we might be able to do in order to prevent our own greeds from consuming us whole.John, I appreciate you being here and I think most of us do, even if your presence only means a good debate, which some of us evidentally enjoy. Debates are good!I would like to finish this post with a question (for John): Is spiritual awakening a difficult process; if yes, then why is it so difficult, and are we all capable of it?
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-23-2001 11:06 AM
(Javier Wrote...
Rick,
Wow, I had no idea you were in the Military. You don’t come off as an NCO. Well most of the ones I met were A-Holes. It’s good to know some nice people are in the Military after all . What branch and what rank, if you don’t mind me asking?
-Javier C.Hahaha is that how folks see us military guys? There is a saying a buddy has who was an officer in the Air Force. He tells me that his job as an officer was really to be “diplomatic” to get a job done (including war fighting) but when diplomacy fails it is the NCO’s ‘kick @$ and take names'”Mostly, I see where time travel if is becomes a real thing in our ‘time line’ would indeed be handled by the US Space Command and then eventually would off shoot to a US Time Command or something like that.Remember that todays NCOs and Sargents are not like they were in times past. Today, some of the enlisted personnel in the United States military are as educated (if not more so) than most of the officers.Also, Javier – about me personally, remember, I’m an active duty RESERVIST, so I am a civilian most of the time. Also, remember that military people, are no different from any one else except in certain attitudes they might maintain. In other words, we are just as curious, just as intelligent and just as politically savvy as any civilian out there. The difference being we are sometimes limited on our avenues of voicing our opinions.The military in general is “conservative” about social, economic and even political idealisms. You can not honestly be a “liberal minded” person in the military and expect to last long. Why? Because you tend to beliefs that are contridictory to military life.That isn’t saying we do not have things like gays, and non-religious people. That isn’t saying we don’t have out and out anti-“Republican” “forces” in the military. But, they are few and far between.Anyway… I know this is less about time travel than it should be, and semi-iff topic, but in a way, it does relate to the over all scheme of things in this “time line”.Take care all… see you all on the other side (of the weekend).Rick
Posted by Randy Empey on 02-23-2001 11:19 AM
John —
Here is some cut&paste to put this in perspective:
((
((I believe that faith AND good works will get one to God. There are other things, but they can arguably be included under the headings of ‘faith’ and ‘good works’.
I believe there is an organized force of evil that works against God’s plan for men’s souls. It’s all part of the plan. Your next question may be “Why do you believe that?” ))
Please don’t think me so cynical. I would never insult or degrade someone’s religious views. My next questions would be “what about knowledge?” I am a firm believer that faith (and good works) is not enough to get to God. There is a mystery we must solve first. ))
Imagining cynicism where it is not is a hobby of mine, please excuse me if I sound too paranoid for your tastes.
What about knowledge?
There are plenty of great mysteries, but if your only aim its to ‘get to God’, it is not neccesary to solve them.
Faith and good works is enough. Its got to be the right kind of faith and good works of course, but you don’t have to be a wise old monk to get into heaven. .
But what about knowledge? That is where the fun begins . . .
If ones aim is to become like God, or be able to cooperate with him in his future endeavors, or self betterment, then spending ones life questing after knowledge is a good recipe. There are plenty of mysteries to be discovered. But the rewards are not at the end so much as they are in the journey.
Learning is what we are here to do.
At the same time, there is still a ‘light side’ and a ‘dark side.’
I look forward to further conversation here.
Another question has just hit me — What do you see for the future of TT in your world-line?
Posted by John Titor on 02-23-2001 11:31 AM
RANDY:((You mention gathering written material here . . . so I assume you do a lot of reading — before this trip, in your spare time, did you read much fiction? If so, what genre? Any books from this century?))I am a big fan of Conrad, Twain, London and any type of religious apocryphia.((What brought you to this bbs in the first place?))When I decided to present or revel myself as a displacement driver I had been watching similar boards for quite a while. I believe the only way to accept what I have to say as being remotely possible requires an open mind able to temporarily suspend major portions of the belief and logic system. In his own strange way, even Javier falls into this category. I would much rather talk to him than a straight line, give me the equations physicist. I don’t gain any insight that way.((And here is another character-o-meter question I’d like you to answer: Have you seen George Lucas’s Star Wars Trilogy (bonus points for any of the prequels or sequels)?))Yes I have seen them. I like the first one the best and the “next one”, in my opinion, isn’t that great either. That’s a heck of a battery those light sabers.JOE:
((1: What happens to Bill Clinton between now and 2036 ))I don’t really know.((2: What happens to Bill Gates between now and 2036))This I do know but I won’t discuss.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-23-2001 09:22 PM
John you opportunist, why don’t you answer my questions? Why so selective and silent? Did I scare you off or something, why you backing off? I must have told you the truth, and now you must be thinking it over .You’re like a vulture, in the sense that your just waiting to find a question to bring up your popularity back up. While avoiding those that would bring it down. Cause you know your afraid. I told you it was only a matter of time.I’m lucky, I don’t fear anything, and I stick to my word.The TimeTravelActivist say’s, “Any question, any time, JUST BRING IT!”http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atrium/9822/shades1.jpg-J.C.[Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-23-2001 at 09:42 PM]
Posted by Jeanette Foresta on 02-24-2001 07:05 AM
I had met someone, a year or so ago, who said he was from the year 2036 also. He said something happened to make this travel all the more possible.
He gave me some details, I wonder if they are the same as yours.I printed out and read the article at the site you wrote.The five presidents? He gave me a breakdown of the government in 2036, I would like to know if there is something called the DNE? Democracy of a New Earth? In which the world is broken into 5 sections. I won’t elaborate here. Yet. I may write it into an article, but then I would feel guilty, (as you say)for being money hungry, and not just contributing. I will think about what I will do according to if I hear from you personally.
Posted by John Titor on 02-24-2001 12:37 PM
LOLA:((Why are orphans an issue? It seems war orphans would be pretty old by now.))Problems with the environment still have lasting affects on all people, which cause the average life span to lower. In addition, people are more susceptible to accidents. Family life and children are very highly valued and the community takes the responsibility for raising children if their parents die.((What is your biggest or gravest environmental issue?))Water. You need it for everything and there is very little left in the world that is positively safe to drink.((Does distillation remove radioactivity from water?))It removes the dust and dirt particles that are radioactive.((Do people still watch TV?))Yes but it isn’t broadcast anymore.[This is yet another one of those often overlooked PREDICTIONS of John Titor. The decision to stop broadcasting television and switch from analog broadcasts to digital communication occurred in 2009 under President Obama. - Metallicman.]((Are there any women on your travel team?))Not that I’m aware of but I would assume there are women who are either trained or are training for the same type of work. I don’t know why there wouldn’t be.((What is the status of women in your time?))I understand the question but I have nothing to relate it to in 2036. The status of women is the same as men. Equality issues disappeared during the war.((Do they hold office?))Yes.((Work outside the home?))Women are not expected to stay home and be “barefoot and pregnant” if that’s what you mean.
((Get equal pay?))Yes.((Are they safe on the streets at night?))There is still crime but people do not attack each other the way they do here.((What do women wear for the most part?))Clothing is more functional. Women wear very similar clothing as men when working or training. In our free time or with our family and friends, clothing is much more individualized. Long dresses, knitted sweaters and pants are still quite popular. You’ll have to forgive me; I’m not very good at describing women’s clothing.((Are the Amish alive and well?))Yes, I believe they are.((What is the birth rate?))I don’t know the exact figures but having children is radically lower than it is now. It is the one thing I wish we had that you enjoy here.[The rapidly declining birthrate in the Western nations was not noticed or an issue until the Obama Presidency. It was precisely because of this that the EU has opened it's borders to migrants from Africa. This is another PREDICTION by John Titor, that was way off the radar screen in 1998. -Metallicman]((Is there an unusual rate of birth defects and if so what kind?))
Yes. Mostly stillborn.
((You said that your culture was centered around the Universities. Weren’t they wiped out in the war? They are in cities after all. ))
Not all major universities are in large cities.
((Do you use cell phones?))
Yes, we use a form of cell phone.
[Another PREDICTION by John Titor, though this one could have been predicted by just about anyone on the planet. He was right. Cell-phones were phased out and replaced by smart-phones. During the time of this dialog, the cell-phones resembled a phone with only one function which was to place telephone calls. The ability to do texting on a phone was not yet implemented. The ability to list to music on a cell-phone did not occur until 2004, and movies and internet access did not occur until after that. While we still use "cell phones" they do not at all resemble the cell-phones of that time period. We use "smart phones". - Metallicman.]((Eat allot of red meat?))
Yes but not as much as you do.
((Drive cars?))
Yes but they are not produced in nearly the same numbers or used the same way.
((Are airlines in operation?))
Yes but again, not nearly as many.
((Internationally?))
Yes, but most people don’t get really want to go overseas.
((Are people pressured (subtle or otherwise) to adhere to a Christian doctrine?))
Not at all.
((Do police make drug busts?))
No.
[This is another interesting reply. Arresting people for drugs did not occur until the 1920's, and then went out of control during the 1960's. It was all part of the new society that was trying to be implemented. His statement indicates a strong return to constitutional principles where the government no longer polices people's behavior and protects them from themselves. - Metallicman.]</span]
((Are there many jails? What kind of criminals are in them?))Yes there are jails. Mostly theft, fraud, rape and murder.((What kind of public punishment is there?))Hard labor, community service, banishment (you must move to another community), public execution.((Sounds like New England during religious persecution and intolerance. ))How do you define intolerance? We don’t really have the energy or desire to waste time being intolerant. If you produce and help the community than you can do pretty much think and do anything you want within the law.((Are there Wholistic healers? Herbal medicines? Alternative life styles? ))Yes.((Is there personal freedom?))Yes, the same freedoms you enjoy under the Constitution.((Is there an IRS and a need to keep a lot of receipts and paperwork around to justify yourself?))Yes, we pay taxes. Sounds like you don’t enjoy keeping track of your personal income taxes. I don’t think anyone does.[On another post he states that there are no income taxes. That implies an IRS. Here, he states that there are taxes. Putting the two together statements together, we can conclude that there are local and state taxes, but no federal income tax. - Metallicman.]((Is the same type of currency used? Is ours today good in say 2010 or 2020?))Yes, we use money. That’s a good question. I don’t see why you couldn’t use your current bills in the future.((Other than time travel how do most people get around the country? Do people tend to travel much? ))There is a high-speed train system, horseback, bike, walking. Automobiles are used mostly for sport and some transportation.[America has some (so called) "high-speed" rail. However, they really aren't high speed. They are just called that. Elsewhere in the world "high speed" means services at or above 250 km/h (160 mph). As of 2017, the California High-Speed Rail Authority is working on the California High Speed Rail project and construction is under way on sections traversing the Central Valley. Phase I will be completed in 2029, and Phase II will likely be completed before 2040.-Metallicman]((Are people suspicious of strangers or all you one big happy family now?))There is still conflict and mistrust. Yes, I am suspicious of strangers. I think that’s an instinct we are given to help us stay alive.((How do most people die during the war? Radiation, starvation? bullet wounds?))Correct…but in this order: Starvation – Disease – Bullet Wounds – Radiation.
Posted by Richard Lina on 02-24-2001 01:24 PM
ArrowJohn,thank you for sharing,I find this fascinating.
wanted to ask, has California,had”the Big” earthquake,in your time and has any of the north Coast disappeared?
..also, I really do wish that you could be a guest on Art’s show,I am sure it would be enjoyable…thanks again…..Richard
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-24-2001 02:22 PM
How hard is it for you to come up with a one sentence answer to people’s questions? That’s what you just did, though you might say it took you a whole day to come up with what to say.
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-24-2001 02:49 PM
I hope my last couple of posts weren’t too off the wall. Just wanted to say that I understand why someone assisted by advanced technology, would have reservations about interfering with the status quo here.
The law of unintended consequences.So John, c’mon man (do people still say that?), let’s hear what kind of culture you live in.>What music do 20 year olds listen to.>What’s the future of cloning.>Any more on Bill Gates?>Do people wear chips yet?>Are you a marked man?BTW, Which hand are you not supposed to take it on (hint: its not the left) and why?
Posted by Randy Empey on 02-24-2001 03:04 PM
Javier —Keep up the crusade, but . . . .Bear in mind that your expectations seem unjustified to us less concerned about John’s veracity.Some times I go for days without even reading posts, but should my critics hassle me about it?I know . . . I know . . . . extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof . . . . but that's only to prove them, not to talk about the ramifications of their possibility or the ideas involved.
Posted by Lola Montez on 02-24-2001 04:02 PM
John,Thanks for taking the trouble. I would still like to know what population makes a city big.
Your time sounds grim. Are you tempted to deliver your computer to 2036 and then retire in the 1970’s?
What did you think about those commercials?Lola
Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-24-2001 04:49 PM
Timetraveler_0~When it is beginning to rain….it is time to go rainbow gazing.~pamela
Posted by John Titor on 02-24-2001 05:24 PM
Its been pointed out to me that the links to the pictures are all down for some reason.
If anyone has a public site I can post them again, I will be happy to see that they get to you.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-24-2001 05:32 PM
Craig,John is here reading these posts. Only answering when it’s convenient for him (i.e. the nature of the question doesn’t entitle him being exposed). So as you can see, it’s not like he’s been away for quite a while, he’s making him self-known to us, and avoiding to answer my questions.Do you not see that?a
Posted by Lola Montez on 02-24-2001 07:14 PM
No word on why the pics are down?
Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-25-2001 12:44 AM
Problems with the pictures:I have got in contact with Doc, where the pictures are located-Doc is having some technical difficulty with the site.Where geocities has suddenly restricted some of his images.
[Photos posted by John Titor were classified as restricted by geocities with no explaination. - Metallicman.]He should be able to correct the problem he said.and if not he can easily move them to a site that can not be touched.sincerely,pamela[Edited by Pamela Moore on 02-25-2001 at 01:10 AM]
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-25-2001 01:36 AM
Pamela,Since you have appointed your self as John’s personal representative. Perhaps you can assist in shading some light into who he real is. Tell us, is he fearful of what he has done and how things have turned out here in these message boards? Notice how silent he’s gotten, and only answering specific questions.What’s your opinion on that?Oh yeah, busy archiving, but still able to read these posts and post when convenient.Do you personally think he’s for real? I can understand if you wish not to tell me. I respect you for keeping it a secret, if he asked you not to tell.Either way, I will still keep asking John questions, and others will too. Until… well I don’t want to break it to you, how will you feel if he is exposed as a fraud? I know you believe into his story quite a bit, I’d hate for you to feel betrayed and deceived by him. It’s a terrible feeling, trust me. I once had a friend who I thought I could trust, until I found out the truth.Well I hope this doesn’t upset you. I understand that people are always going to be looking for answers. But they shouldn’t take short cuts in finding them (i.e. Time Travel). And everyone is always going to need someone to look up to and to acknowledge. But John here, has a secret agenda, and is being praised like a God. Now doesn’t that just strike you as wrong? It does to me.Sincerely,Javier C.
Posted by John Titor on 02-25-2001 07:31 AM
RICK:((John, do they have anything to do with the “future” of time travel, as YOU know it?))There are numerous people and organizations that contribute to the practical application of physical time travel. I think you would be surprised how much real work is being done right now.((About video taping the departure… Let us assume you do this, and your agents (family?) in Florida send the tape to the Sci Fi channel, or to Art Bell… how would this affect you in the future?))It wouldn’t affect me on my home world-line in the least. I would only be concerned how it would affect the “me” here. Of course it may be a large part of my secret agenda and I have no choice but to do it anyway.((Theoretically speaking, I doubt that anyone could determine that you actually time traveled, but it would certainly make a very good show.))I wonder what it would have been like to see a plane break the sound barrier before the jet engine was invented?PHILLIP:((You said that there will be a big war right? And that Russia will nuke some of our major cities, right? Can you at least tell us which cities will be nuked?))No I won’t do that.
However, I submit to you that when the moment comes it will be absolutely plain as day that you are unsafe in the cities. The millions people that stay will choose to stay. That’s what comes as a surprise.((Are we traveling in space in 2036?))Not yet but they are working on it.((Has first contact with an alien race occurred?))Not that I’m aware of.
Posted by John Titor on 02-25-2001 08:00 AM
DOUG:((1) You say your machine has roughly a 60 year limit. Is it possible to go back 60 years and then another 60 years? ))Yes, that is possible but the divergence grows exponentially as you move farther away from your world-line of origin. I could make 50-year jumps to go back and see what the world looked like 2000 years ago but there is a strong chance it would look nothing like what I expect. There are larger distortion units that are more accurate and have a larger window.((2) Have the people of your time proved the “world-line theory?” If they have, is there any information you can share with is that proves it?))The Many Worlds theory seems to wrap up very nicely into current string theory. Unfortunately, we have not solved string theory yet either but (n-10) seems to be the best working model we have in 2036. As you are probably aware, the “big equation” does not need the final solution in order to take advantage of the smaller parts that do work in the real world.((3) Ever hear the story of Oedipus? To make a long story short, after being told he will kill his father and marry his mother he moves far away. On the road he accidentally killed his father and ended up marrying his mother. Thus, the prophecy is what caused him to fulfill it. You say you don’t want to effect anything too much by giving out information, but you could drastically change this world-line just by talking about the war, or anything for that matter.))I see your point but do you think Oedipus would not have taken those actions if he didn’t know the prophecy? I don’t believe that knowing a possible future makes it happen. You are capable of changing your world-line for the better right now. None of the things I have said will be a surprise. They were set in motion ten, twenty, even thirty years ago. Are you really surprised to find out that Iraq has nukes now or is that just BS to whip everyone up into accepting the next war?STEPHEN:((If you’re interested in posting some more photos and (pending your decision) the video of your departure, I would be happy to display them on my site. I’ve only got 5 meg storage, but I’m not using it at the moment.))I appreciate that. It looks like the previous issue has straightened itself out.
Posted by James Dvorak on 02-25-2001 01:00 PM
Exclamationi cant spell too good, hehe. But someone asked john about AIDS and cancer in 2036 and he said no cure for aids, and Cancer that there was some progress. but haven't you been listening to art bell lately John??? we are on the literal brink of finding cures, even if its not this year, we will still find cure in under 30 years.
I also find it hard to believe that our planet would want to do time travel and than let anyone use it??? But you'll probably say you are government or something.
Don't you think government would be more concerned with getting other things taken care of than A time machine??? why you need an old ass computer from the 70s anyway????
I'm sorry you might be an actually time traveler but no way in hell do i believe you without any proof.
Here's a question maybe you can answer without “upsetting ” the time line…
There was a show on Fox very recently presenting evidence that we didn't land on the moon, I really believe this because of evidence presented, now this wont prove to me that you are TmTrvlr, but Just tell me if we actually did or not.
I really was hoping we would have found a way to live on other planets by 2036, also how about flying cars. you should know what GINGER “is”, you knew it was some kind of mobile personal transit system, but you don't know exacts??? open minds people, open minds (don't trust this one!)
Posted by John Titor on 02-25-2001 03:54 PM
JAMES:((John Titor ,i posted to you before and would like to let you know that i would love to come along for the ride to the future if you need a sidekick,i am able to fly hot air balloons,a good shot,physically strong and quick,smart on my feet in case a odd event occurs and I would not mind leaving this time to go to yours.))I appreciate the offer but I’m not sure you would like the year 2036.CHRIS:((There have been many movements in music…rock, disco, and hip hop are some of them. Though most people probably can’t rifle out names of musical groups from 35 years ago, they probably would have a basic awareness of what musical influences prevailed at the time. So my question is…what is the NEXT big movement in music that will take place here in the US, specifically?))I appreciate your frustration and quite a few people have asked me questions like this. The expected answer is that I don’t want to break my personal code of “time travel ethics”. The real answer is, I just don’t know. I was not prepared for the year 2001, I was prepared for 1975. I don’t suppose it would be very impressive if I told you Disco would be big until 1980.MEL:((Am I getting this right? You load up all the people who want to go with you in the back of your Chevy pickup…))Actually, the requests were rhetorical. No one is going back with me.((…drive from Florida to Minnesota. Sell that truck in Minnesota, buy another truck older than 1975…)
Doesn’t have to be a truck but I get your point.
((…load everyone back in that truck, drive back to Florida and then depart back to the future. Sounds like it will be quite a sight to behold. If you can, swing by Ohio and give me a honk. Your welcome to stay at my place. ))Thanks. One thing I do find interesting about time travel tech is the expectation that we can pretty much go anywhere at anytime. These systems are quite complicated and they do have limitations. Are you going to be around in 1975?
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-25-2001 05:38 PM
I find it interesting how now, after all the deliberation of attempting to convince others of your story, you are now backing out.Did someone here do it for you?In the last few replies, you commented on not wanting to break your code of ethics. But as we have seen now for the past few months with you is that you have broken ethics to go out of your way of proving to us what you are.Here is a sample of what was just said:((The expected answer is that I don’t want to break my personal code of “time travel ethics”. The real answer is, I just don’t know. I was not prepared for the year 2001, I was prepared for 1975. I don’t suppose it would be very impressive if I told you Disco would be big until 1980.))That above example not just shows how irresponsible you are, but how ignorant as a Time Traveler you are as well: “I just don’t know. I was not prepared for the year 2001.” Good choice, 2036.And here, we see you backing out of a jam, with something like:((Actually, the requests were rhetorical. No one is going back with me.))Nice revision to your story, but you lied to everyone. Some people actually took your request seriously.Right?What, no public apology?Don’t you feel that you done a bad thing, making people believe you, only to tell them it’s not true?You mentioned you would take people back with you on more then one occasions. Did people think you sounded serious? YES. Did people believe you, YES.Think about that…Truly,Javier C.[Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-25-2001 at 05:46 PM]
Posted by James R.Quayle III on 02-25-2001 10:41 PM
Thumbs upIt’s not that one believes one truth,It is more like i leave my options open and I have learned from my experiences that anything can happen.
But that is my life,not yours,I bet John is from somewhenelse,time to me is just like a distance to get to,sometimes we find a ride to where we never thought we were going,and when offered a chance to time travel why not?
Peace to you javier and John Titor,James,And JOhn Titor
I would like it in 2036,because if you knew of my life experiences ,anywhere ON earth is good,and I bet it can’t be all that bad?
Simplicity is good i was a good boy scout who can camp,and hike forever.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-26-2001 01:42 AM
James,You said:((It’s not that one believes one truth,It is more like i leave my options open and I have learned from my experiences that anything can happen)).You responds in the beginning is neutral to either side. But towards the end you clearly contradict your self and side with John. Talk about not wanting to believe one truth.Still waiting for you to answer John, and Pamela.Truly,Javier C.P.S. I meant no disrespect to you James, I just felt obligated to point out the truth, as what I am doing questioning John.Btw, what kind of experiences have you had? If you don’t mind taking about them.[Edited by Mary Rowland on 02-26-2001 at 09:06 PM]
Posted by Angel Lynnn on 02-26-2001 04:14 AM
QuestionHello, John.Can you tell us if reverse speech is used in the future for business or even pleasure?
Also, can you talk about earthquakes in California or Nevada?
Thanks, John, for starting this topic and sharing your time with us. We are really enjoying it and you!Angel Lynnn
Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-26-2001 08:13 AM
John,I will be around in 1975, I guess.
That would be a very good year to miss for me. I do have a 1972 Porsche, but it hasn’t been started in 15 years.
Maybe if I could go back to 1985 when I last drove it I could do a few things different, not just with that car, but maybe buy some of that Microsoft stock.
Posted by Randy Empey on 02-26-2001 08:20 AM
I think the strongest argument for time travel not being easy or possible at all is the greed factor.Warping time and space takes lots of energy . .. making finding out if or how TT works hard . . . is this because of some accidental way the universe turned out, or is it a fundamental law written in by the Creator?Any thoughts on that side of things, John T. or Javier?
Posted by Luis Gonzalez on 02-26-2001 09:16 AM
ArrowJohn,I would like to speak to you in private. Please email me at the following addresswiccanism@hotmail.comluis
Posted by John Titor on 02-26-2001 03:39 PM
JAVIER:((Better then being a fanatic, who believes in people so blindly.))fa.nat.ic (n.) A person possessed by an excessive zeal for an uncritical attachment to a cause or position.JAMES:((Hello John I was wondering if you could respond to my post, I was serious…))If I didn’t get to something, please feel free to ask again. I’m going in order of the postings and trying to get to everything that seems worthwhile and/or productive.DOUG:((Many people asking about the dangers of the war are asking about cities being nuked. During school today I was thinking about this, and nuclear warfare doesn’t seem to be the biggest form of fighting in the future.))Nuclear war will be very effective at destroying an enemy’s economy and the people’s will to fight.((Other than the small countries, I doubt nuclear warheads are going to be shot from each end of the globe.))I would caution against that. That’s exactly what “they” want you to think while they continue to develop smaller and more accurate MIRV’s. Have you ever seen a neutron bomb the size of a basketball?[Today, we know that the major military powers have miniaturized nuclear weapons, including neutron bombs, cruise missiles, and hyper-glide technology. The submarine launch capability is quite mature, and WMD is an issue because it is a real threat. -Metallicman.](( John, you say one of the hardest things to do in 2036 is find clean water. You also say you only trust food you’ve grown. Is any of this a result of your experiences with biological warfare? Is biological warfare a major threat in this war you speak of?))Yes and no. Yes, biological warfare and accidents do cause a great deal of problems but the lack of a working infrastructure also hinders the continuation of the food manufacturing you depend on now.((This is definitely the least serious of my questions, but is there anymore background information you can give (What city you were born in, etc)? I understand if you can’t but after this thread is over I may get a little bored and see if I can find any information on the John Titor of “today,” assuming that’s your real name. ))Once I leave, I would not want any attention to come to my family here.JIM:((I’m guessing the date of your return to the future is April 19th. Is this correct?))That is a day to remember but I was thinking more along the lines of March 21.ERNIE:((My mention of Joseph Campbell was a rebuttal to someone who claimed that your General story was un-original. In fact the most likely leader of a movement like the one you describe would most likely be a Farmer since being a Farmer would provide much of the scenario required.))Throughout history, farmers have often been a target of oppression because they are absolutely necessary to civilization but too busy to defend themselves. If you push a farmer too far, they stop growing food and have nothing to do but hide in the woods and shoot back.((My asking you if the mention of CERN going on-line and discovering this and that, was a prediction was a genuine question completely un-related to “making a Buck”. I wondered if it was just a hint you were giving as to something that could be verified after the fact with little chance of you mentioning it having an effect on it.))Please do not be offended by my “making a buck” remark. I say it with a wink to help other people form their questions. Yes, some very interesting things will be going on at CERN in the near future.((For me what is interesting is the type of questions that are being asked, and the apparent hostility that someone like you can be subjected to for no “good” reason.))Yes, I find that interesting too. Sometimes I wonder what people are really angry about and I have come to the conclusion that frustration is better directed at the messenger. But then again, that’s history.((I’m sure even in 2036 there is a tendency to tease one’s detractors if they make themselves available.))I have no intention of teasing anyone but I do grow tired of the same cycle over and over again. Eventually, the people who do not like me or what I have to say (real or not) will win. I will either leave or grow tired of answering the same questions.((John is “playing you” Javier. It’s an old trick, if your most vociferous detractor continually puts on weak attacks; it takes attention away from the really challenging questions.))Again, please do not confuse my inability to answer the same questions over and over with a desire to make someone upset. I gain nothing by angering Javier or making him look foolish.
((He knows “make a buck” and “more power to you”, and “off the cuff”.He is unaware or dislikes “buy in” or “buy that”
Does that prove anything? not really. Given enough text you can profile him and make a good guess.))I know my English isn’t perfect but I blame my parents for most of the phrases I pick up (wink). It’s different sometimes seeing them in print than hearing them. It took me quite a while to shake off “sock it to me baby”. “Cool” seems to be the longest lived phrase I’ve heard so far and “peace” seems to be making a comeback.[John trained for the 1970's. Not for the year 2000. - Metallicman.]((What 82 page book written in England in 1884 is required reading for all physics students? I admit it’s possible you may not know in 2036, but highly unlikely. The same reason that makes it so important for physics students would make it just as important to understanding Time travel. Secondly why is this little book so important. If he doesn’t know this it lends more circumstantial evidence to your side. But he could ask someone and then how do you prove that?))Well, I’m pretty sure it’s not the Principia and it looks more like something to do with Maxwell but to make your point, I did find this.http://www.livingarchive.uk.com/LA.htmls/manchester.history.htmlJust about anything can be looked up.((How about this? Let John make a recording of himself saying he is from the future and whatever other part of his story he wants. We could submit that to voice stress analysis. Is that enough? no again, since a well trained person can beat a voice stress analysis by using self-hypnosis or having someone hypnotize them prior to recording. Again no proof.))I’ve heard a tack in the shoe works. It throws off the baseline “no stress” readings. Also, if you speak slowly enough, you can beat those programs.
Posted by James R.Quayle III on 02-26-2001 04:42 PM
Thumbs upJohn Titor,what if something happens to your device to get back,let us say inoperable,would you then change the world by announcing warnings,and also what if you got a flat tire in betwwen times would you have to pull over to fix it in a wrong time?
Posted by Lola Montez on 02-26-2001 04:47 PM
John,I congratulate you on your restraint and good humor in responding to some of the posters who are as tireless as an old turntable in playing the same old song.
(I include myself in this group as I know I keep asking you specific questions regarding safe ground during the possible trouble ahead).
I still have some questions you have not responded to but hate to ask again in the event you do not wish to respond or just have not made your way to them yet. Could you let me know which? I will wait to hit you with more until I know the status.If any of you missed Dr. David Anderson on Art’s show you should go to the archives and listen. It is about time distortion going on in New York.Kind regards,Lola
Posted by Brad Brown on 02-26-2001 05:31 PM
John I’m curious.
You’ve expressed a want to experience the world as it was.
However you seem to spend a great amount of time talking about TT.
Why aren’t you traveling and telling us about your latest trip to the pyramids instead of talking about specifics you should be bored from in your awareness to them? Are the Great Pyramids still standing in 2036?
If you wish to experience society as it was, admitting yourself to be a time traveler is counter-productive.
How’s communication around the world in 2036?
Do you still have literature widely available?
What’s the latest book you’ve read that you were only able to hear about in your own time?
Is new literature also so available?
Is the English language beginning to segment into sects and accents with less influence from tourists? Or is tourism still strong and thriving in 2036.
You wanted questions not in relation to stock, here you go.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-26-2001 07:01 PM
John,Just 1 sentence is all I get for waiting for another 5 days? Even then, it’s nothing more then some discombobulated definition in your own words. What dictionary did you use? Is it the dictionary you learned English in, in the future ?Try Oxford next time.Why don’t you give it up John, you know this little experiment of yours went more out of hand then you wanted it to go. Now look at you, you’re attempting to lay-low until your window of opportunity to leave… Am I right?Try answering this, instead of something that was said almost 2 weeks ago.I’m sure lots of people would like to hear you explaining your self. After all, I did expose some of your lies.But then again, there are those here who are “fanatic” about your cause that they still believe your from the future. Quite sad isn’t it?What do you say to something like that? Look at all these people, completely taking your word for it. Doesn’t that just do something for you? You can answer too Pamela if you wish.-Javier C.
Posted by John Titor on 02-26-2001 09:07 PM
CRAIG:((IS your sense of “timing” off, in new time environments? I’ve heard people who have “out-of-body-experiences” find that it sometimes takes a day or two to regain a sense of normalcy in their minute interactions with the physical world.))No, my timing isn’t off. I do however find myself stopping in mid-stride and paying extra attention to my environment when I forget “when” I am.
When I was a child, my mother would tell me stories about angels. She told me that angels found it hard to communicate with man because man could remember his past but couldn’t see the future.
Angels, acting as the eyes and servants of God, had no memory of the past but had infinite knowledge of the future.
Although I am no angel, I often thought about that story after I left 2036. Besides that, I do get a lot of colds.((John – You were born about halfway into this cycle. BTW, GenXers would be about 40-50 years old in 2036. How they doin’? Were they pretty resourceful scrappers?(Fighters/Survivors))In my opinion, the Gen Xr’s ended up in two categories.
There were the ones who had learned to be independent by breaking away from tradition and societies expectations and the others who had no idea how to take care of themselves and just wanted the trains to run on time.
The ones in the first group feel very guilty about “letting” the world go to Hell and the ones in the second group are dead.
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-26-2001 10:52 PM
John – I can understand that. Being from the end of the Boomer Generation myself, I can say that GenXers may feel that way (those who are left) though it always appeared to me that they were abandoned young by Boomer parents off doing “their own trip”. GenXers were the original “latchkey kids”.I’ll repeat this link, as I really enjoyed the book.http://www.timepage.org/time.htmlI hear their new book, forecasting the next 10 or 15 years, is also pretty interesting.http://www.fourthturning.com/html/fourth_turning.htmlShort of holding seminars, is there anything else you’d like to do while you’re here, with respect to your interaction with us?
Posted by James Dvorak on 02-27-2001 01:42 AM
Coolcan you tell me what year the police will stop busting people for smoking weed???
after the war right??
in 2015?
do they start pushing for legalization earlier than the war???? this is the ****!
I'm still working for the community though……………………
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-27-2001 06:59 AM
John – about voice stress analysis… No, you can’t “beat” a combination of voice stress and body language analysis. You can, under certain circumstances, beat a polygraph, but only if the examiner is very inexperienced. I’ve been through a few myself.I suggest that you do your video tape of the departure. Here is why:1) An impromtu video tape will give you an opportunity to say some things to us as a kind of “final farewell” which we can all observe. Then you can step into your time traveling truck and vanish for the camera. That will give us something to think about.2) You will be gone from our time line, and we can examine the video tape, using voice stress and body language analysis to determine if you were being honest to us about your trip back to the future.3) You do not have to worry about the ramifications of the tape because of time line divergence – and because of several things you’ve lead us to believe you here, will not be affected in the least – nor will your time line be affected in your time.4) If there is any doubt in your story now (and there is apparently with Javier’s continued chipping away at the story and your own attitude toward him) then you can clear it up with such a tape.5) Some of us would really like to believe, have hope for, or even be shown that time travel is not only possible, but practical and already (somewhere/sometime) going on. You can prove it to me, beyond a shadow of doubt with a video tape.Now… you’ve offered to do so. I have the resources to place said tape up online. When our web site comes back online we will have plenty of space to do so. (Some of you might be familiar with the site already – anomalies.net). In any case, we will be more than willing to put up all the photos, manual scans, video tapes and anything else you would be willing to show us. I would even be willing to fly to whatever place you want and film it myself, at my cost, as long as you give me a bit of a heads up.(and for those of you wondering, NO I am NOT doing this for the government. I’m as curious as anyone else here, nothing more, nothing less. I’m not in this for money, I’m not in this for personal gain – except the knowledge that the “truth is out there”)John… you can reach me privately through my email address on this board. I urge you to do so, if not for yourself or us… for the future.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-27-2001 07:14 AM
To The Board:Doc’s site is still not fixed and I have no doubt in my mind that he will eventually move the pictures to his other site.But in the meantime I have all of John’s pictures and anyone who wants them can email me and I will send them to you.My email is in my profile.Also John and I have talked and anybody who wants to forward anything to John can do so through my email address and I will make sure that John receives it.I will do this as long as I am able.sincerely,Pamela[Edited by Pamela Moore on 02-27-2001 at 07:31 AM]
Posted by Abe Figer on 02-27-2001 08:58 AM
hey I´m very interested in john titor story.. but I have some question for him……
what is going to happen to Mexico in 2035?
is going to be safe going south after de war starts?…..
depending on his answer i will give me an idea of how real his story is…
Posted by Luis Gonzalez on 02-27-2001 10:15 AM
SmileJohn, email me…
Posted by John Titor on 02-27-2001 05:25 PM
LOLA:((You say you were in the militia fighting the US Army. I would think that civilians would have a snowballs chance in hell of successfully fighting the military.))You must realize that why people are fighting is more important that what they are fighting with. The conflict was not about taking and holding ground it was about order and rights. They were betting that people wanted security instead of freedom and they were wrong.[This was written BEFORE 9-11, the "War on Terror", the TSA, the DHS, the perpetual snooping by the NSA, and everything that came with it. Yes. John actually PREDICTED all of this. And no one believed him. Crazy nonsense they said. -Metallicman.]((What does this look like? Is it a stalemate with the resistance/militia hiding out until the cities are wiped out allowing them to surface?))The cities were not isolated because of them; they were isolated because of us.((You site the approximate number of cities and military bases intact before the nuclear attack. Are they ALL hit?))Nuclear weapons and guidance systems are less than perfect. Most targets receive more than one warhead but some of them were more accurate than others. I would estimate the overall accuracy was around 60 to 70 percent.((Three days walk from where? The nearest city? Again, though, what population makes a city a city and not a town?))In my experience, a motivated starving person is only capable of walking about three days. The more distance you put between yourself and anyone who is likely to be hungry, the better.((Does any one or any group stay neutral during all of these years of fighting?))Some try to.((Does anyone just lead a reasonably normal life during the civil war?))No.((You say the civil war lasts from 2004 to 2008 and then the short big one in 2015. What do the years from 2008 to 2015 look like? How long does WWIII last.))I’m not sure I said that exactly. By 2008, I would say the civil conflict is pretty much at everyone’s doorstep. Western instability during the conflict leads to the attack in 2015. WWIII is very short with a longer period of mop up.((You mention the nature of Canadians but I don’t think you mentioned the impact of all of this on that country. Would you?))There’s not a great deal I know about Canada except to say they were pretty much in the same type of conflict. They did have the Dew Line you know.((Oh yeah, one more thing that is rather haunting is your allusion to the position of women as being controversial and conservative in 2036. Yikes! What is that supposed to mean?))It certainly isn’t disrespectful. I apologize if it sounded that way. It’s one of those areas I realize will be difficult to discuss because we may lack similar experiences.
In 2036, there is not a desire to “have it all”.
With factors such as the difficulty in conceiving and the decentralization of production and industry, there is not an unrealistic scramble to have a “career” and a family.
Out of necessity and circumstance, family life has become more traditional. However, there are many families where the wife / mother is the main breadwinner and the husband / father remains “home” with the family.
The difference is in the method of decision-making. People do not have children (if they are able) unless they can devote the required resources to maintain it.
Posted by Jeff Borgus on 02-27-2001 05:39 PM
(Actually, the requests were rhetorical. No one is going back with me.))Just like your whole story is rhetorical.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-27-2001 10:28 PM
John,Many movies that take place in the future show an Earth under ruin, war and famine. You have been buying into that fear people have in some corner of their minds from the very start. Creating, what we have here a John Titor worship board.
No longer a place to discuss views of Time Travel, and gain knowledge. More like a handout of knowledge. In other words John, you have become these people’s prophet. You are now deeply involved in their belief system.My only problem with that is that it’s on a wide scale.
Tell me something, is that why the civil war started? To many people take people like you and put them on pedestals? Lots of people can no longer think on their own, they depend solely now on what you have to say. How pathetic, and your future culture finds no flaw with prolonging it. Instead, they gave one of their Time Traveler (meaning you) a device to come to the past and exploit the chance to take and do as you and they see fit.That’s very nice. You’ve managed to convince a lot of good people, honest sincere people. That your genuine, the real McCoy. That however, may be okay with you, but not by me, not by a long shot.Someone once brought up the example of some of these people being sheep. At first that might have been an unfair presumption, but now that I think about it, it’s true. And you still haven’t commented on my request to answer my statements. What’s wrong? Why don’t you?Let’s face it John, I’m one of the very last ones you have not corrupted with your story. It has been your straightforward effort to say you are from the future, and convince others of it as well. But just look at you, look at how unprepared you were. The lies you were caught in. And trying to recover only makes you look phonier in my eyes.I swear, I will expose you John. My passion and conviction in this matter is unquestionable. Your friend Pamela can attest to that.People like you, who use this to benefit from unknowing people, make me sick. Time Travel is an evil means to get what you want; I wouldn’t be surprised if your world is Satanic.The fight is not over between you and me John. Nor will it be over any time soon. I will continue to pursue in exposing you as a fraud, there is no doubt about that. I don’t fear you John, I do however fear a world that has followers like your fans. That only entices me more to continue the fight.If others find that silly and funny, I feel sorry for you. You’ve lost your sense of passion for doing what’s right. You openly accept the flaws of this world, and succumb deeper to them. Creating what we have now, a delusional world solely dependent on everyone’s individual beliefs. That saddens me. Call me old fashion, but that kind of mentally is only asking for trouble. That’s the sort of mindset that causes wars. Confusion, uncertainty, fear in the truth.But in the end, there is no escaping what you all are. In the end, we will all get judged, and see that instead of laughing at me, and thinking I was a nut job, you all should have known better. It’s like the Metaphor of the Ant and the Grasshopper. Just think about that.Sincerely,Javier C.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 02-27-2001 11:45 PM
All very interesting, but one nuclear bomb hitting around Colorado would do the entire food belt in by the wind blowing.
Russia’s power plant went 1500 miles away because of the wind.
I guess the wind blows here too.
Now, how far does the Earth move in 36 years traveling along with the Milky Way Galaxy at 33 miles/second. Quite far, so how do you manage to not space travel? The Universe is always moving.
From 1975, add another 25 + 36 years and around 61 years is where you went too. Now the Earth has even traveled further, I suggest you all look up at the Universe, a Supreme Being might just be praying for all of us on the Spaceship Planet Earth.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 02-28-2001 01:30 AM
John,When you get a chance can you post an answer to my question regarding the “30 second” scenario that I asked about a week or so ago? Thanks.I’ve also been wondering about how you have manage to overcome the simultaneity problem in maintaining common world-line references between yourself and the two micro-singularities that travel with you. As you know, bodies under acceleration lose their initial constant velocity world-line reference with respect to each other – the Twins Paradox.
Given that you have a possible 2.5% divergence from your own world-line (5% on a round trip?)on a 60 year trip and the micro-singularities (each having their own world-line) are subject to the same divergence, how do you keep them in phase?
Does the divergence extend into N-dimensions? Is the 2.5% the total error or is each dimension subject to the 2.5% divergence individually?I understand that you’re a tech (a bus driver as it were) and not the physicist, but how did you manage to overcome the problem of gathering sufficient power to artificially create a micro-singularity in such a short time (sometime prior to 2036)? I believe that it would theoretically take the total energy output of the Sun since the time of Richard the Lionhearted (about a thousand years) to form one micro-singularity, let along two.
Posted by John Titor on 02-28-2001 05:55 AM
((When you get a chance can you post an answer to my question regarding the “30 second” scenario that I asked about a week or so ago? Thanks.))Please take a look at page 18. If I didn’t get to everything, please expand your question.
Posted by Bob Marz on 02-28-2001 06:17 AM
I haven’t seen an answer to my issue concerning moral turpitude through action or inaction. Did I miss it?Javier: You’ve worked yourself into a tizzy over John’s spontaneous whim. He started this forum with a joke about coming back from the future with the old computer and noticed people taking him seriously so kept up the gag. I think he’s done a great job, it’s just for fun.
John has never been inflammatory, in fact he’s maintained a good-natured witty sci-fi scenario, urging people to play along.
What gives the gag a nice dynamic impact is the fact that John stays in character and takes every question seriously, giving us realistic answers. ala Orson Welles War of the Worlds or Blair Witch Trial. The more John stays completely in character the better the experience for us.[Edited by Bob Marz on 02-28-2001 at 06:26 AM]
Posted by John Titor on 02-28-2001 06:51 AM
In order to assist in where I am in the questions, I will post the page and person I left off with. It would also help if you could do the same when asking when I will get to yours. Since my time is growing short, I will be unable to answer questions that have already been asked in some form or another and I will make a note when I come across one.
Unfortunately, it has also come to my attention the proposed email system for sending out the pictures is not working out. Apparently, people on the receiving end of the requesting email are starting to have problems with their computers. They suspect it’s coming from the “asking” email. Before I leave, I do plan to send out a few more pages of the manual and a video of my departure. I’m sure a method of will be developed to do that.
Currently, I am on page 18 right before Rick’s questions.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-28-2001 09:13 AM
SmileI am still getting some email in-between the attacks. Anybody wishing to email John in private please use my email address and I will forward it to him. and send you a confirmation that your letter has been forwarded to John.
I delete your mail right afterwards. so if any attack happens to get past my security system your email will not be there for anybody to see it. several people have the pictures already. (keep them safe!)If you can’t get to my email please post on the board your desire for the pictures and I will make sure you receive them.Anybody wishing to forward a private letter to John, you don’t have much time left.while your at it…say Hello to the future! these pages(according to John) will be archived and posted on a web site in the future.
actually that is quite interesting..how would you prove to someone reading this in 2036 that you are really from 2001???PEACE TO ALL!!-pamela
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-28-2001 10:21 AM
Earth to Pamela,Yeah, you’re gone. What happened to being skeptical? Hypocrisy I tell you. And that’s not an attack, that’s the truth.If people do read these in the future, they’ll see how foolish you all were to fall for his story so easily. No wonder the future looks down on us, look at our culture, our attitudes. You have this blind faith in a man who you all know for only 3 months.Why not have a dialogue with me Pamela, instead of just being his supporter.Before you would state your own thoughts. But now, your completely at his disposal, and nod at whatever he says. And you find that normal? It appears more like brainwashing to me.You know I won’t attack you, I will however tell you the truth. So accept my request, since you speak for John, you shouldn’t be afraid to answer for him as well.I await you.-Javier C.
Posted by John Titor on 02-28-2001 11:14 AM
Actually, Pamela is quite quick to catch many possible discrepancies in what I’ve said over quite a few sites in the last few months. For example:
PAMELA ASKS: >1. What type of money system do you have on your world line? meaning how do you buy and sell things? Do you have the same type of money or do we have a cashless society? such as smart cards, credit cards or ID biochips.I RESPOND: Its not very different than it is now. Yes, we have money and credit cards. However, like everything else, the monetary system is decentralized. Banking is based mostly around the community structure. There are no multinational banking or computerized economic systems..there are also no income taxes.
QUESTION ON THIS SITE: ((Is there an IRS and a need to keep a lot of receipts and paperwork around to justify yourself?))I RESPOND: Yes, we pay taxes.. Sounds like you don’t enjoy keeping track of your personal income taxes. I don’t think anyone does.
MY RESPONSE TO PAMELLA: I had considered going into more detail about the tax system but I didn’t have a great deal of time. Currently, I am watching my father go over all his taxes and he doesn’t look like he’s having a very good time. My comment referred to the collective misery I see around me during this time of year.
Posted by Bridget Talarico on 02-28-2001 11:23 AM
Red faceOh John, who am I to say “nay”, this guy’s a nut?
But let me ask you one simple question: instead of sitting at your computer, why not present yourself to George W, proof in hand?
THAT would throw quite a monkey wrench into the government’s coverup machine, don’t you think?
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 02-28-2001 11:45 AM
John,Thanks for the answer to the original questions. Here are some follow-ups for you to ponder.<<Q: What is the result of the duplicates arriving simultaneously at the same place?
A: Psychological confusion and a few fist fights.>>John, I think that you missed the point here. The problem that needs to be addressed is what happens to the duplicates as they simultaneously arrive at virtually the exact same location. Given that their masses will occupy the same space, what prevents a naked singularity from forming? (Black holes seem to be the only constructs that can violate the Exclusion Principle. And unless the duplicates were drunk they shouldn’t be spinning <wink> – thus a naked singularity.)<<Q: How long will it take for the loop to decay? Will it decay? Is it a loop?
A: The chances of hitting the precise world-line where all the other duplicates are arriving is almost zero. It’s possible but increasingly less probable with each arriving duplicate. The divergence decays and the world-line is “less available” for new “yous” to arrive on.>>It’s a nice creative answer, but it didn’t address the question. The question was is it a loop; will it decay and how long will it take to decay? Divergence won’t decay, unless you’re saying that the divergence decreases (which I don’t believe is what you were indicating). Its true that each duplicate has a decreasing probability of arriving on the same world-line – but its an infinite number of duplicates. Any subset of that infinity is simply a less intense infinity, but an infinity none-the-less. The implication is that an infinite number of duplicates will appear simultaneously. What prevents this from happening?<<Q: What happens if the experimenter, upon seeing his duplicate, decides not to continue the experiment?
A: He can always leave the room on his own world-line or put a desk full of books in the position where the time machine is arriving every 30 seconds. That will probably trip the VGL system and stop the time machines from arriving.>>Again, nice try on the answer. But these duplicates aren’t arriving every 30 seconds. They are all arriving simultaneously 30 seconds before the experiment begins apparently violating Causality if the experimenter decides to cancel the trip.This question was a follow-up to your 2.5% world-line error problem. On your 60-year journey you have a problem if the error is 2.5% in N-dimensions. If your error is in the ‘t’ dimension you have a chance to arrive back home as early as 2034 and as late as 2038. If the error is cumulative for each leg you could arrive as early as 2032 and as late as 2040. Arrive too early and the boss won’t have a clue as to why you brought him a 1975 vintage computer. Arrive too late and your haven’t helped solve the problem in a timely (excuse the pun) manner.You’re also faced again with the Twins Paradox. In this case the twin is you: The “you” in 2036 and 2001. Each of you is a body in motion and under acceleration (the velocity of Earth, the Solar System, Milky Way Galaxy and Vegan Local Group and the general expansion of the universe are not constant.) Moreover, the distance between each “you” is increasing at 54 km/sec. The 2036 Earth is approximately 60 billion kilometers from where it is today. The 2.5% divergence error is not constant. The longer you stay here in 2001 the greater the distance between the two Earths thus the degree of error increases. The physicists in 2036 aren’t able to help you as they don’t know where you are and as you aren’t a physicist you’re probably not going to be able to make the corrections from this end. How are you going to get home safely?John, you’re actually doing a credible job of handling this thread. I personally don’t believe that you’re a time traveler but that’s not the point. I have to put some thought into asking these questions. SO, you make me think and that’s always good. Thank you.
Posted by John Titor on 02-28-2001 12:28 PM
EMMETT:I do enjoy the questions and I appreciate the interest.
I suppose there is a difference between a thought experiment and the real world. It appears we have our virtual laboratories confused and I’m not sure I understood all the rules to your experiment and then it occurred to me that in your position, this is all just a thought experiment anyway. I will try to be more literal in my explanation.((In this experiment the traveler only goes 30 seconds into the past to appear in his lab. It seems that 30 seconds before his experiment was to begin he saw himself appear in the lab. There would now be two travelers and two time machines. It doesn’t appear that it ends that simply as the “second” time traveler says that he saw a duplicate self appear in the lab thirty seconds before he started the trip. It would appear that its a time loop and an infinite number of duplicates see a duplicate self appear in the lab thirty seconds prior to the start of the trip. ))I’m not positive but I don’t see anything that indicates the time traveler would remain in the same spot once he arrives. 30 seconds is almost long enough to get coffee in your thought experiment.
If that were true, and they all kept moving, than the experiment could go on for quite a while until the planet filled with time travelers.
You also stated, “it would appear” as a time loop.
If it only appears that way, than the natural divergence may stop the experiment when three or four time travelers arrive and the others end up on different world-lines.((The problem that needs to be addressed is what happens to the duplicates as they simultaneously arrive at virtually the exact same location.))Again, you use the world virtually, which to me means not exactly the same spot. Under the laws of physics, I don’t personally know what happens if it were on exactly the same spot but I do know it’s possible.
Under the operational limits of the distortion unit, as soon as the VGL sensors pick up an unexpected mass in the target world-line, it would shut down and drop off in a world-line where your experiment is not occurring.((Given that their masses will occupy the same space, what prevents a naked singularity from forming?))
I see, now they are in the same space. I suppose that’s a possibility. If so, than the as soon as the experiment started, a singularity would form under the infinite mass and swallow the planet.
Perhaps they tried this on Cygnus?((It’s a nice creative answer, but it didn’t address the question. The question was is it a loop; will it decay and how long will it take to decay?))Well, I think it’s a nice creative question too. Under your example, the “loop” would terminate as soon as the singularity forms and would be constantly fed by all the arriving time travelers.
Thanks again, I’ll follow up on the rest in a bit.
Posted by John Titor on 02-28-2001 01:05 PM
After taking a quick shower and listening to the quiet hum of my archiving hard drives, I decided that Emmett and I may have made bad second impressions on each other. I find it ironic because it’s people like Emmett that will actually solve those physical issues and make it possible for people like me to go back in time and argue with them. So I hope, no hard feelings Emmett.
It also reminds me of a short story between a bicycle maker in the 1900s and a man who could fly faster than sound.BICYCLE MAKER: Well Mr. Mach, if your plane can go faster than the speed of sound, how did you solve the compressibility problem that would tear your flimsy craft to pieces?
MR. MACH: First off, the aircraft are much more stable and made of metal instead of wood and fabric. Second, it is possible to pass the sound barrier by designing the wings and body to move the shock wave down the plane as you surpass the speed of sound.
BICYCLE MAKER: Really? Planes made of metal? Well, if your plane can fly faster than sound then why don’t you just fly to the moon?
MR. MACH: It doesn’t work that way. You need air to make the engine function.
BICYCLE MAKER: I see. Your plane can go faster than sound but needs air to function. That’s convenient and it all sounds like a penny-book fantasy to me.
MR. MACH: Perhaps… perhaps not
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-28-2001 02:03 PM
Give me a break John, your so full of it. Your pathetic attempts to crawl out of a tight hole our becoming narrower and narrower to get passed these days. Not just are you being broken down, but being exposed as a fraud.More discrepancies. Your a lair, you really didn’t plan on taking anyone back with you. Yet people believed you. Still waiting for you to apologize to everyone.And don’t say your busy going in order trying to answer everyone’s questions. You just skipped the rest and went straight to the most current. How considerate you are. Others have been waiting for much longer time, and you found it convenient to seize the opportunity to answer something that would make you look good in the eyes of your followers.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 02-28-2001 02:15 PM
Not that I believe you, but would not the vintage computer from 1975 be bigger than the time machine to haul back to the future?
It handles 3 people, personal computers were really not out then, only a very few people were trying to make a personal computer, and they only had kits to put together. I mean 4kB of memory is nothing like the current crop of computers with up to about 1gB of memory one can put in the computer.
Just some thoughts about what you are saying?
It does not fit quite right with me. If there was a War, then it seems reasonable to me that you were not even born until all of the Wars were over.
That would make you about 21 years old from 2015 or just about 29 from 2008. It does not add up if millions of people died from these happenings. I just add things up logically, and from my perspective, the story does not seem real.
Oh, well, we all have to do something with our time, I guess. I think I’ll be 90 in 2036 and right now you appear to be younger than I am now and have not developed the critical thinking skills that come with age on Spaceship Earth.
Posted by David R Ferguson on 02-28-2001 02:29 PM
I have finally read all of the posts in this thread and I have come to one conclusion…it is definitely been more entertaining than anything currently on television, except, of course, for the televised Illinois basketball games!Thanks to everyone for your posts. It has certainly been very educational.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 02-28-2001 02:58 PM
John,My friend, I have absolutely no hard feelings. To the contrary, this thread is quite enjoyable.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-28-2001 04:43 PM
WinkHOLD ON JAVIER!!! IM COMING!!!!I am grasping the tether on the front ofmy outerspace suit.attached somewhere down thereto earth…I'm pulling…..myself……………right hand…over left hand…over right hand…I'm pulling myself into Earth’s atmosphere…a little further…a little further…..(hahhah)Ok..Javier what kind of dialogue do you want to have?….I'm here.No, I have not lost all my skepticism and you areconstantly acting on your own assumptions and fears.I don’t speak for John, I simply helped him out on a couple of questions he already had answered earlier.Am I brainwashed? Of course not. That is silly!I have talked to John for hours and hours about things.and I know some things you don’t. John is a highly intelligent man and he is very interesting to talk to.People are not stupid, Javier. and you know I am not.Can’t you just enjoy the conversation in this thread?it’s probably not going to last much longer…pretty soon John will be gone and you won’t have to worry about him anymore.(he’ll either drop off of the board if he is fake, or go back to future if he is real.)the truth may not possibly come until after he is gone.I know you have a good heart. but you get a little carried away sometimes.I have an email address you know if you want to talk further…sincerely,pamela
Posted by Angel Lynnn on 02-28-2001 07:10 PM
ExclamationJohn,Are people using “reverse speech” in courts, etc. or even recreational?Can you talk about earthquakes in California and Nevada?Thanks.Angel Lynnn
Posted by Lola Montez on 02-28-2001 07:59 PM
Angel,What’s reverse speech?Lola
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-28-2001 08:02 PM
Pamela,No need to be sarcastic ya know, but thanks for finally answering one of my questions.However, the dialog will mainly be question/answer. I said that, because it seemed to me that I was the only one talking. You weren’t responding to any of my questions. Neither was John.And since your John’s little helper, you can assist him in answering for him. Make sense?But since you said your only posting answers to questions already asked, I fail to see how you will be of any help to me and the rest.Yes, John maybe smarter and more interesting then me, but that doesn’t make what I do know, any less important. Thanks for be little-ling me . Nonetheless, you know I can’t just stand idly by while he preaches and others bow at his feet. I can’t stand for that, nor will I allow it. Others must hear another side, not just his.So if I am criticized as being afraid and acting on my own assumptions, I don’t care. I’m not here to win the best personal image award. I am here to speak the truth.And you say your still skeptical; well actions speak louder then words. I guess we won’t find out all the truth, until she leaves. Will you be telling us more details about him, or will you conceal it still in fear of them finding out the whereabouts of his younger self?Your taking quite a risk trusting someone with your secrets John. Didn’t your mom teach you to be weary of a pretty face?Just the facts though…-J.C.
Posted by Stephen McKay on 02-28-2001 09:24 PM
Javier,Why are you so defensive about this whole thread? I may be mistaken, or perhaps you have a different definition of preach, I don’t remember John _ever_ preaching.
Nor any of us “worshiping” him.
The way I see it, John has made a claim which may be true or may not be. The possibility of it being true interests some of us, so we have questions. John’s doing his best to answer us. Maybe he’s full of it, but I enjoy science fiction as much as the next UFO nut.Just because we ask questions, does not mean we are shouting from the rooftops “This man speaks the truth, he is the Messiah”. It simply means we are willing to accept the possibility that he is telling the truth.
If he is, great, we can learn from him and look back on these posts when we reach his time. If not, what have we lost? A few moment of time, which, in the grand scheme of things, amount to little.My question for you is this: If John is a fraud, what do you personally stand to lose? What is the reason for your conviction? Whether it’s the truth or not, it’s interesting. For my part that’s reason enough to continue. If you don’t believe John, leave. If you’re not interested, leave. It’s your choice. What I think is important is that none of us are really sure whether John is telling us the truth or not, but we’re willing to entertain the possibility.An open mind is an important thing.Steve
Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-28-2001 11:41 PM
Javier,“Yes, John maybe smarter and more interesting then me, but that doesn’t make what I do know, any less important. Thanks for be little-ling me .”I'm sorry you misinterpreted my words in this manner.“And you say your still skeptical; well actions speak louder then words. I guess we won’t find out all the truth, until she leaves. Will you be telling us more details about him, or will you conceal it still in fear of them finding out the whereabouts of his younger self? ”I won’t be doing or saying anything that could possibly jeopardize or bring harm to John or his family.sincerely,pamela
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-01-2001 12:31 AM
What interests me is the need for time travel in the first place?
I think by rational thinking that time travel is impossible.
[I don't know about all this John Titor stuff, but I do know what I have experienced. For what ever it is worth, I conducted my first MWI world-line egress in the Spring of 1981. It was on an American Navy base, and I was part of a SAP called MAJestic. As far as I understand, MAJestic has had this technology since the 1970's. - Metallicman]
Do I care that people tell me to be open-minded? I am open-minded. What bothers me is that people will go through so much trouble to bother with a technology that will only occur in the very far future.
I suggest that John talks to Dr. Fred Bell, who has traveled forward in time, according to him when he was a guest on the show, and that John tells him how they have solved the problem of disorientation from time travel.
Now every thing is nifty with time travel, and there is no ill effect?
I like fantasy as much as the next person, but I see no Civil War on the horizon.
[I am editing this in December 2018. An American civil war seems a distinct possibility. Sorry. -Metallicman.]
Only the people who would want to see a Civil War start actually see a Civil War on the horizon.
My, if I were John, I buy a TV and a VCR player and take back the episodes of Star Wars. Try to transcend above this physical plane of existence, and you will see that the Force is actually a reality.
Time-travel, well, its a grand idea, but like all ideas, when rational thinking is done on the subject instead of emotional turmoil, time-travel is so far into the future that as I the only one who can see that?
This leads to the freedom not to be influenced by the very type of people that always are seeking the wrong truths.
People should look up at night. In the beginning there was nothing. How long can you have nothing? Forever! A unit of measurement has been invoked, call it forever. A yardstick, a ruler called forever. And time was just created. Then something was made out of the nothingness, being a potential, and here the Universe exists in God’s Glory. God does not leave this chance.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-01-2001 12:32 AM
Red faceStephen & Pamela,I have a good responds for both of you. But it’s passed 12 right now, and I have to get up early for work. Maybe during work, I will reply to you.Good night,Javier C.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-01-2001 07:17 AM
Albert wrote:” All very interesting, but one nuclear bomb hitting around Colorado would do the entire food belt in by the wind blowing. Russia’s power plant went 1500 miles away because of the wind. I guess the wind blows here too. Now, how far does the Earth move in 36 years traveling along with the Milky Way Galaxy at 33 miles/second. Quite far, so how do you manage to not space travel? The Universe is always moving. From 1975, add another 25 + 36 years and around 61 years is where you went too. Now the Earth has even traveled further, I suggest you all look up at the Universe, a Supreme Being might just be praying for all of us on the Spaceship Planet Earth.”Albert, for the record, our government does not push the “nuclear war survivability scenario” for a reason – they simply do not care.
Anyone who builds a bomb shelter is considered a kook. I don’t think they are kooks. I don’t think anyone who believes in survival is a kook.
Now, why I mention that is your “wind blows” theory.
Yes, you’re correct that the wind blows generally west to east and if a ground blast occurs there will indeed be fallout. However, understand a good number of nuclear weapons will be air burst weapons. There will still be fall out, but considerably less than if the weapons are ground burst.
There will be a lot of little weapons that will miss their targets. I LIVE in Colorado, believe me I’ve studied the what-ifs carefully, for the sake of my family. There isn’t an easy survival answer either. (Which is why I CARRY NBC protective gear with me everywhere I GO and my home is being slowly set up to protect us against nuclear fallout. Won’t protect us against a direct strike, but even in my area, I think an atomic attack will be survivable.)The moving earth situation has been discussed at length several times, and John’s explanation was “gravity sensors”.
While I’m not aware of anything called a gravity sensor in this day and age, I wouldn’t discount such a thing. Physics has a way of surprising us.
Already we are sure (in physics) that there are such things as “gravity waves” – similar in fact, to radio, light or even x-rays – all of which are “waves”. If this is correct, and I believe it is, then there will be very shortly a way to measure them, and therefore “sense” gravity waves. Doing calculations and measurements could compensate for the “movement through time” of a time ship.Javier – Man you’re obviously taking this way too seriously.
Especially when you start insulting everyone on the list. Now, I don’t usually take things personally, but you and I have discussed this offline already a couple of times. While I understand your reasoning for trying to prove John a fake time traveler (Or even if a real one, he shouldn’t be here – if I understand your web page correctly) some of the comments about people being sheep, followers and “believers” is a little bit harsh.Let me explain. I’m not a “believer” in the sense you’re implying. That is, if John were a time traveler here and now, and was doing what he is doing (as a REAL TIME TRAVELER) then I would have no qualms about listening to his story.In fact, I have no qualms about listening to it now. Regardless of whether he is real or not, the idea of time travel, science fiction and a ****ed good story is something I’m always “into”.In other words, what Pamela and some others have called “attacks” by you, might not, by you be considered such – but the rest of us do. Basically, you insult the intelligence of everyone on this list by saying we “are sheep”.
I personally am not, and I’m sure you weren’t referring to me personally – however, even if I DID totally believe John, and was taken in by him, and believed he was telling the total truth – who are you to come rescue me?People in this world have free will.
This is something SO MANY Of us forget all to often. I protect my children and grandchildren from bad things, because they are young and might not have the wisdom of age to get themselves out of a situation. But, as adults, we have the free will to believe, or disbelieve whatever we wish.An open mind is very important in science – something a lot of scientists even forget. Skeptism is important, but at the same time, if you do not have an open mind to what “may be” you will never get past the arrogance of your own mind and you might just miss the most important discovery of all time.About Today’s World:In the place I work, we look at many different things, including intelligence reports, terrorism, war in other places and in general the “state of the world”. I study many things, related and unrelated to my job, but most importantly we in the DoD and military tend to examine everything, even the smallest, insignificant incidents in the world, looking for those things that might ignite an all-out war.If any one has been following global intelligence at all (and you can do as good a job as the CIA on your own, if you simply know where to look) you will see that in the United States an “awakening” of sorts has occured regarding our personal freedoms.
There are these anti-gun nuts out there trying to ban guns – using the children as the catalyst. Without examining the reason we have for owning guns (and it isn’t a last week thing, this is a HISTORICAL THING) then they do us all a disservice. America is on to them. We are on to those who would take our freedoms and we aren’t going to let it happen without a fight. Hence the possibility of “civil war” DOES exist today. If you’re not close to the subject you might not see it. Those of us who are protecting our freedoms DO SEE IT.Russia has been “feeling it’s oats” lately… doing attack runs on our ships, rattling their sabers (i.e. “We’ll pull our support of the internation space station if you even THINK of continuing with National Missile Defense – just one example). Russia has not disassembled several nukes they said they did. Satellites show it. They just move them now. China has linked up with Iraq – assisting them in repairing their weapons systems – hence the attacks recently on Baghdad.There are reports of Cubans, Chinese and perhaps North Koreans in and around the Sonora desert (think about this to understand what it means – basically, that is our weakest border. If *I* were going to put a force against america, I’d come in that way).These are just SOME of the little things. We have a kind of unrest in America now. It could very well lead to a civil war of sorts.Russia, China, N. Korea, Cuba, Iraq, Iran, France – and you can add quite a few others to this list – would just love to see America on her knees and will do whatever it is they can to help us down there. NEVER EVER UNDERESTIMATE enemies – especially FORMER enemies (like Russia).What I am trying to say, without being able to do so in a short note, is that even if John is “fake” his scenarios are absolutely POSSIBLE and even PROBABLE at this point in our time line. Those of us who spend time checking intelligence reports can CONFIRM his social theories about “what might be”.In short, even if John is fake – his possibile future is accurate for us, even now. I hope he (and I) are wrong, and I hope it won’t come to a civil war in this country, but I have been seeing it coming for a few years now. The thing with Russia and nuclear war – well… it is so much more a possibility NOW than it was in the Cold War that *I* am considering building that bomb shelter once again.Rick
Posted by Angel Lynnn on 03-01-2001 08:06 AM
ExclamationSome employers are using this to help them with hiring employees. They record the interviewee talking then they reverse their speech to see if they were telling the truth, etc. Whatever comes out in reverse is what was on the persons mind while speaking.
I’m curious if they are using reverse speech in courts etc. in the future. Maybe it will be a good thing to get into and learn more about.Angel Lynnn[Edited by Mary Rowland on 03-01-2001 at 03:10 PM]
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-01-2001 08:24 AM
Well Rick, you seem to have a passionate belief in something as well. Yet you blame me for having the same zest. You accuse me of being harsh; yeah maybe I was just a tad. But you call these people who want to take away the second amendment “nuts,” how do you think they will feel about you saying that? So I see it as something one in the same.I am only trying to get the message out that we shouldn’t give our selves to easily to someone claiming to know the truth. I want freedom too, I’d hate for it to be taken away. That’s why I’m working towards not having that future.Except my way, no one seems to understand. They call me crazy or going to far. Perhaps, but if you’ve gone through the things I have, you’d also protest. You’d want to make sure it doesn’t happen to anyone else.As for everyone being sheep’s, I didn’t mean you. I meant those that stick to John like glue who can’t see another side but his. Forgive me if I offended you, I can get pretty worked up in my campaign.Stephen,You sound like your new here. Why don’t you visit my site first? I think that’s probably the best way I can answer your questions. Learn a little about my cause, and me and if you still have questions I’ll be more then happy to answer them. Critical or not, I don’t run away from questions.Pamela,Like I said before, I respect you for keeping what John told you in confidence secret. I would do the same. Nor would I want his younger self in a government facility being tested on. Because I know the feeling of being exploited, and no body deserves that fate.Even John…If there is anything I hate more then liars, are people who take advantage of others. People who exploit those to gain an advantage in some hidden goal. Makes me sick…Hence my hatred towards Time Travel, and Time Travelers.Someone’s got to do something. Who here has the guts to stand up for justice in the matter of temporal violators?I volunteer, for as long the threat shall exist.Javier Cortez[Edited by Javier Cortez on 03-01-2001 at 08:30 AM]
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-01-2001 09:19 AM
Javier,I did check out your website and find it funny that you are possibly the only one on this board who claims to BELIEVE in time travel wholeheartedly yet you are the one who spends all of his board time trying to convince us sheep that John is a fraud. You may be the only one who isn’t skeptical.
You are truly the only fanatic, so far, on this board.
John has hooked you good. The rest of us keep an open mind (something you should consider), learn what we can and have a good time in the process. You seem on the point of a nervous breakdown.
I have also considered the possibility that you just want as much attention as possible and are jealous of the position John holds on the board. This stance gets you more feedback than you would otherwise get. This may be a subliminal motive. Isn’t there something else you want to do here just in case time travel is as real as you think it is?I’ll take a fraudulent time traveler over an evangelist anyday.Baa BaaLola[Edited by Lola Montez on 03-01-2001 at 09:34 AM]
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-01-2001 09:58 AM
Lola,Your last post smells like revenge to me. This must be for what I said to you last time. Sorry, but it was the truth. And people say I’m harsh and hostile. I think you just took that title away from me.I don’t care about the attention, like I said before I can care less what others think about me. And I have no subliminal motive, because that would go against everything I stand for.Since my birth I have gone through experiences that cannot be explained by psychologist. Ever see “The Sixth Sense.” Notice how angry he gets and writes those hateful words. Well maybe you wouldn’t think it’s so funny if you stand on the opposite end of something like that.And as for me being jealous of John, that’s not likely. Why would I be jealous of a Time Traveler? I hate Time Travelers. And despite all his intelligence and fans, I still manage to out wit him now and then, and post questions that he can’t answer. I’m very happy being who I am . Even though the visions and manifestations get out of hand at times, I’m fortunate to have this life, a good family and friends.
Posted by John Titor on 03-01-2001 11:31 AM
BOB (from 18):
I must preface the following with a bit of melodrama. I feel a bit unqualified to answer the next few questions for the following reason. The way you and I look at life and death and its relative value is radically different.
As any other soldier can tell you, once you watch a man’s arm come off from a bullet you just fired or have been close enough to feel someone’s last breath on your face, it changes you.
I can only describe it in two distinct waves. The first feeling is power. You won when it counted and survived. All the personal shortcomings and faults you’ve carried with you your whole life just melt away in a savage euphoria.
If there’s time to think about it, the next wave comes shortly after and is underlined by overwelming guilt. You just killed someone and now God might be ticked off.
Fortunately, the second feeling goes away quickly when the shooting starts again and gets shorter and shorter after every battle. After all, why would God put you in this situation?
The point is, I personally do not like going through that cycle and the decisions I make about life and death might not be the ones you would expect me to make.
((How come it doesn’t bother you that people may die through your inaction yet you find it “morally wrong” that you might affect lives by active involvement?))
I’m not sure I said it didn’t bother me, I only stated I won’t interfere on purpose.
Again I refer to a historical example. Before Pearl Harbor was attacked in 1941, a small group of US soldiers were experimenting with a new technology called RADAR. As the Japanese planes were flying toward the island, they actually picked them up in time to thwart the surprise attack.
Unfortunately, they were unfamiliar with the equipment and figured it wasn’t working correctly. As you are aware, the ruthlessness of the Japanese “sneak” attack galvanized the US people into entering WWII.
As a time traveler it would be easy for me to take a short hike up that hill where the RADAR operators were and point out to them that indeed the equipment was working just fine and they should probably call it in.
Assuming they believed me, it is arguable that my lone single action could start a chain of events that would allow the US to meet the Japanese planes and stop them from attacking the battleships. As a result, the US people would still be angry but not motivated to enter the war fully since the Japanese were not a precieved threat.
Thus, you don’t begin research on the atomic bomb until well after Hitler has already dropped a couple on London.
I could save thousands of men on the Arizona at the cost of millions in London. I just don’t know how one life will affect another. However, if I were standing next to a soldier who was about to be shot by a passing Japanese plane, I would push him to safety. I realize this is inconsistent on a small scale but I am tired of watching people die in front of me. If there is a price to pay for that than so be it.((Isn’t it just as morally wrong to affect lives through inaction as it is through action? Hint: The answer is YES.))Why are you concerned about what I might do to corrupt your world-line when you have no problem letting other people do it around you every day? Do you blame yourself for not taking any action right now to “save” people living on your streets or suffering from poverty and disease? Besides, how exactly would you propose I decide who to tell and who not to tell? (provided I knew anything at all).((Your immediate decision, in itself, is its own authority.))What God judges about my decision is the only authority. Again, all the things you claim I can do you are capable of also.((If good and evil achieve a balance in the larger picture, as you suspect, and all life is “God” experiencing physical manifestation, the question of you being required to decide who lives or dies is moot.))It’s not moot to me. To tell you the truth, I’m afraid.
I don’t want the responsibility of being expected to know who lives and who dies. I know it would change me for the worse.
Besides, how can you be sure my “inaction” now isn’t a result of something I’ve already screwed up and I’m trying to fix it? Javier might be right after all. Thanks for the good questions.
I am on Lola’s question at the top of 19.
Posted by Stephen McKay on 03-01-2001 05:23 PM
Javier,I’ve been following this thread from the start, but only posted once or twice. I had a read of your site. Let me see if I can get this straight – It’s not so much that you don’t believe John is a Time Traveller, you just wish to uncover his secret agenda? I don’t mean to sound sarcastic, from what I read on your site you seem to believe in Time Travel, you’re just not a fan of it.
I’ll make sure that this is where you’re coming from before I comment on it…Steve
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-01-2001 07:49 PM
Stephen, or do you prefer Steve?Yes, I do strongly believe in time travel. And it’s not so much that I believe John is a time traveler as well, but yes I like uncovering people’s lies when they make grand accusations like that. So far, I have to say John is very clever. But personally I don’t like Time Travelers, so I can’t be like you or the rest and listen to him.Basically like I said, I’m a paradox. My way of thinking may at times be inconsistent, but that’s how I have always been. It’s my curse. To believe in something, and experience it first hand, and to then shake it off and say it’s not real.Sorta like a double personality, but not really. But I’m not crazy , I can however get really angry at times.I guess I’m just following in the footsteps of my great great great great great great great great ancestor. I’m someone with conviction, just how he was. And if it weren’t for him, there would be no Mexico. Not that he was a good man, and not that he was a bad man either. He was a man with great conviction.I try and do as I see morally right with my conviction. And I always choose integrity above all else.Javier C.
Posted by Daniel Kirkbride on 03-01-2001 09:42 PM
Javier,I am curious as to what drives you to so passionately need to “save” people from what they want. To over simplify things for the sake of brevity, some are following this thread in the pursuit of entertainment and their own curiosity, and others are willing to buy whatever snake oil is closest at hand to make their lives more interesting.
Exploring possibilities and boundaries is both healthy and fun. On the occasion that it becomes unhealthy and obsessive, well that’s just natural selection. At least in this situation those more prone to get carried away are free to choose their own poison in whatever dose they see fit. You yourself being a perfect example.
Besides, if everything john says is absolutely true, what harm has been done? Any changes in this particular world line are specific and inevitable and alterations are only alterations to those with the perspective of light cones dipped a couple of degrees off the beaten path.
For those naturally in our specific world line the only change made is the change that was going to be made anyway.
For john any change does not affect his own world line for the same reasons. The only change is in the degree of difference between these two lines, which is only evident from an outside perspective, but that variance is absolute.
In short, it is possible to go back in time and kill you parents, but only by traveling to the world line where that is what happens. You can then decide out of remorse to go back and kill yourself to save your parents, but only by going to the world line where you do that.
However this does not change the world line where you successfully commit parricide, because in that line they did die. Future and past within a specific world line is absolute.
Time travel merely grants the traveler the unique ability to recognize variances between world lines.
Therefore, any changes to our world line are actually not really changes, because our tomorrow will be what it is going to be and will not change when looking at it from the perspective of the day after tomorrow. So no matter how insidious or innocuous johns “secret agenda” is, he cannot affect any changes that he is not going to affect anyway.
It’s a battle that can’t be won because in our future it already has or has not been. I know this all sounds a little convoluted, but the mathematics behind it all are actually rather simple. Which brings me to a question for John.John,I don’t mean to suggest that I accept any of what you claim, but I do have a technical question.
Are the singularities in your machine supposed to be offsetting the light cones of particles within it’s sphere of influence allowing the world lines of these particles to appear to loop form the perspective of particles outside the effected area?
I don’t mean to insult you by spelling out the obvious to you so basically, but that seems the most obvious need of a singularity.
If so, how can you account for generating a gravity well deep enough to create such a disparity between light cones without sucking the planet through the eye of a needle?
Also, this requires motion through the space immediately influenced by the mass, yet you claim travel is accomplished while the traveler is stationary. I look forward to your response….
Posted by Stephen McKay on 03-01-2001 10:02 PM
Javier,Probably prefer Steve, but it doesn’t really bother me. As far as I can see John is not making accusations but claims. I also think it is important to uncover deception, but I’m not sure what makes you so sure that John is lying.He may slip up, but he’s only human, as are we all. I just don’t think the point lies in whether or not John is from the future. He’s made his claim and unfortunately there is no proof either way. As much as you may believe it, I don’t think you can use his posts to disprove his claims, nor can they be used to prove them.The point is that what he says is fascinating. Millions of people go to see psychics and fortune tellers, not because they believe they are seers and everything they say is true, but because they are curious. I think that is the same attitude of most people asking questions of John. If John did tell us of a company whose worth jumps drastically in the next few years, I honestly doubt that anyone on this thread would invest their savings in that company.They’re not devoting their lives to John’s words, they’re just interested. As I said earlier, if John’s telling the truth, then we all get a sneak peek and preparation for the future; if not, then all we get is an entertaining story. If we read this thread in that light, then we have nothing to lose.Steve
Posted by Michael E. Hendrickson on 03-01-2001 10:32 PM
Regarding your 2-21-01 comments on my first post,i.e.,
that I should view the video “Waco,The Rules Of Engagement” to get a better understanding and appreciation(I suppose)for federal law enforcement personnel acting criminally beyond the pale. And ,you asked rhetorically,( I may be paraphrasing somewhat) “if the allegations made in this piece were proven to be true, what would you hope would happen, nothing?”My answer to that is that if these allegations were proven to be true I would not have hope, but rather every confidence that our criminal justice system would prosecute and convict whoever the criminal perpetrators turned out to be, whether federal cops, or otherwise(thereby obviating the need for citizen uprisings).
The ATF,followed by the FBI, clearly blundered at Waco, causing the needless deaths of some 80 of our citizenry. However, to charge these federal officers with criminal violations of the law either directly orimpliedly as is done in this video, simply doesn’t accord with the real facts. Actually, there’s some evidence now to suggest that not only the FBI, but other federal as well as state and local law enforcement agencies have learned something from the Waco tragedy, and will take great care not to repeat it.
[Really? Such an optimist. - Metallicman.]This, of course, goes directly against your predicted scenario for the next 11 years, which posits a series of Waco type events crescendoing ,finally, in a full blown civil war, with honest citizenry from the heartland (with shotguns, I suppose) battling the evil forces of our federal governmentBaloney! This is the typical paranoid militiaman mentality which manifests itself often in your writings,in references to federal policemen conducting illegal searches and engaging in other depredations against innocent citizens. I guess all these things happen after our Constitution is suspended, and our republlican form of democratic government, now 225 years old, all comes crashing down in less than a dozen years, under your projected scenario. More nonsense.
Perhaps, your mentor and guide is that goofball from West Virginia (I can’t recall his name)who has written and sold a militiaman’s manual of sorts,and which I think makes many of the same kinds of predictions which you have been making. I know that I previously wrote that I thought,perhaps, the inspiration for your story of our near future was a science fiction novel. However, now that I’ve given the matter some further thought,I beleve a good part of it may come from this militiaman’s manual. MH[Edited by Michael E. Hendrickson on 03-01-2001 at 11:11 PM]
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-01-2001 11:43 PM
I can save you all a bunch of rhetoric. It’s a matter of principal that drives me.I don’t believe John is a Time Traveler. It’s the principal behind it all that motivates me to question him though. It’s what makes my blood boil; it’s my outlet to speak out. And like I said before, maybe if you’ve gone through what I have, you’d also want to protest Time Travel.Time Travel = Exploitation
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-01-2001 11:45 PM
I’ll be gone soon. I really do not have time for this.
First of all, to Rick, everyone wants to protect their family. The reason I can not buy into this is: if John is making up a story, it is a very wrong thing to do.
The interests of the day are the same ones from back in the ’50s.
People were building bomb shelters, and by the 1960’s, I was there, everyone thought that no one would survive a nuclear war. It is self-evident.
The US alone has more nuclear weapons that would blow up this Planet a 100 times over. I had 32 nuclear missiles aimed at me every second of every minute of every hour of every day for the thirty years this Cold War was going on.
By the 1970’s smiling Pres. Jimmy Carter said, “Its MAD”, Mutual Assured Destruction. If we are to have a War, we will not stop until everything is utterly completely destroyed for we can not win a Nuclear War.
Carl Sagan came out in the 1980’s and said if too many nuclear missiles are released in even a limited nuclear war that it would cause a nuclear winter. If anyone survived, there would be no food, and like in the past when the dinasours disappeared, humans would just die off. No one wins in a Nuclear War.
In the 1980’s Pres. Reagan said exactly that, “If you launch, we launch, if we launch, you launch”. “NO ONE WINS”. Everyone dies. We will start Star Wars, to protect ourselves.
Of course Star Wars the movie was out in 1980 and told us about something new, a new way of looking at things, yes, the Force. Use the Force. What do you think people have been doing? It commonly referred to as a Relaxation Response Method.
You block out negative thoughts coming into your head, by conscious effort, and say something like “Cancel, cancel.”
This takes practice and effort to reprogram your brain. What we have now in the US is people who do not know these techniques. We have been doing this since about 1985. Star Wars Reagan began a process that nuclear weapons would be reduced.
Now in the 1990’s, Saddem was not going to get by with his “Naked Agression” and thats exactly what Pres. Bush meant.
Now Pres. Clinton signed an Accidental Nuclear Release Treaty with Pres. Boris Yelstein. If terrorists get ahold of a nuclear device, we will call first, to avoid an all out exchange of nuclear missiles.
Some in the US, as some in Russia, think a Nuclear War is winable, IT IS NOT.
This has been proven time and time again.
Yet minor countries like North Korea or major countries like China or India or Pakistan want to continue on with developing longer ranged nuclear missiles. They already have them.
The point is the SDI defense, making nuclear missiles obsolete. How? That’s easy. It’s still the same with the US. We have more nuclear weapons than Russia. If anyone launches a all out War, the US will literally destroy this entire Planet. AND WE MEAN IT.
We have lived it, so when someone comes and says I am from the future, and there is a Nuclear War and a Civil War, I say “Bull”.
Every country in this world knows that the US will destroy this entire Planet if it needs too. There will not be a limited Nuclear War in my estimation.
Having all lived through this 50 years of crap, makes us not be interested by annoying people claiming this or that after having a Cold War with Russian leaders. We are not amused at this type of behavior.
This will not cause a Civil War, or a Nuclear War, got it.
[Oh so very sure. So very sure. Well, the year is 2018, and look at who is in charge of America. - Metallicman.]
Here are the people who operate the enormous buracracy in the United States. You know, the ones that say one things and do the other. John Brennan. James Clapper, and their ilk.
Posted by John Titor on 03-02-2001 05:46 AM
DANIEL:((Are the singularities in your machine supposed to be offsetting the light cones of particles within it’s sphere of influence allowing the world lines of these particles to appear to loop form the perspective of particles outside the effected area?))
No, that’s not how it works.
The singularities are used to manipulate gravity around the observer.
The singularities do not interact with any matter except the electrons that are injected onto its event horizon.
The hazardous areas of gravity are quite small and exist only around the inner singularity ring and another area created in the gravity sinusoid outside the vehicle.
((I don’t mean to insult you by spelling out the obvious to you so basically, but that seems the most obvious need of a singularity.))
No insult taken.
I would imagine we both agree that standing behind an operating jet engine is an unhealthy thing to do also.
((If so, how can you account for generating a gravity well deep enough to create such a disparity between light cones without sucking the planet through the eye of a needle?))
The gravity well created by the singularities is not that large.
The portion of the field that is felt by the operator is about the equivalent of 2 Gs.
I would urge you to examine a Penrose diagram for a Kerr black hole.
As you are probably aware, the singularity is donut shaped and exhibits two event horizons.
The singularities are used to “simulate” a path through the center of one of these singularities which is what takes the observer to an alternate worldline.
Earlier in the thread I did go into this in a bit more detail.
((Also, this requires motion through the space immediately influenced by the mass, yet you claim travel is accomplished while the traveler is stationary.))
The unit must be stationary during operation due to the sensitivity of the gravity sensors. Any motion with an acceleration component would throw the gravity measurement from the singularities off.
Posted by Joe Applebaum on 03-02-2001 06:12 AM
I’m new and I didn’t get a chance to read every post up to this point, so I’m sorry if my questions are repeats.1. Could you explain your theory about world-lines? Are there infinite world-lines? Are all world-lines separate or connected to each other in some way?2. Where did you attend High school and what year did you graduate? Was it difficult?3. What college did you attend, what year did you graduate? Would you estimate that your college life was similar to ours in our world-line?4. Hypothetically: If you fell in love with someone here (lets say Pamela) and you took her “back to the future” with you in your timex machine, wouldn’t that act upset both of our world-lines especially if she were pregnant? Or all of the world-lines,assuming time travel is possible? Conversely, If you were gay and you took a gay man back with you, would that disrupt the world-lines less, assuming the both you could not bear offspring.5. Have you had a chance to watch a movie here that you had already seen in your 2036 word-line? If so, did they have the same endings?Thank You, looking forward to your replies.
Posted by Bob Marz on 03-02-2001 06:45 AM
John: Thanks for your response.
I understand the dilemma and paradoxes involved in the moral questions. I’m still not convinced, though, that of the two basic choices of involvement/non-involvement when faced with an immediate moral dilemma, you find inaction okay but action (active intervention) suspect. I don’t see why you don’t regard them equally.
Example: I’m at a blind intersection and I see a bus barreling down on a man who’s crossing the street. Would God condone me staying out of it because I feared the moral ramifications of the myriad future scenarios?
This kind of second-guessing would prevent any immediate action.
Lifeguards, firemen and cops would be rendered obsolete. With such a standard I could leave a kitten up a tree, a wandering child outside on a cold night, a blind woman headfirst in a snowbank, on and on, because I really don’t know what affect these living beings will have on future events.
How can a God expect you to be omniscient, that’s His job. Since you’re not omniscient you’re not responsible, which is what I meant by “moot.”There are an infinite amount of variables. Therefore the Pearl Harbor scenario is ambiguous. You don’t know that involvement of a time-traveler would prevent a nation’s motivation. Or that it wouldn’t. Or that your inaction is any more moral than involvement.What concerns me is that your reasoning endorses any sort of non-involvement in day-to-day events – yes, even cowardice. All the lives that Schindler saved, for example? He should have simply stayed out of it because one of their descendants might someday become a second Hitler? I’m sure those he saved would have a different opinion.
I need to think about this more.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-02-2001 08:01 AM
Javier: [Well Rick, you seem to have a passionate belief in something as well. Yet you blame me for having the same zest. You accuse me of being harsh; yeah maybe I was just a tad. But you call these people who want to take away the second amendment “nuts,” how do you think they will feel about you saying that? So I see it as something one in the same. ]Javier, I do have a passionate belief in something – the Constitution. But, you misunderstand a bit. I’m not BLAMING anyone for anything. Let me see if I can say this simply… we all want to learn something.
By you (or anyone) denying outright the existence of something – or attacking it directly as a “bad thing” without listening to both sides, you deny the chance for observation, and therefore, learning.
Nothing against your methods, but, to put the problem into the perspective that “this is simply wrong” without back up justification for it being wrong – other than your own perception (which some of us might not understand) makes it hard for anyone to follow the story.
I just have a problem with anyone lumping EVERYONE that doesn’t have the same beliefs as that person (doing the ‘lumping’), in the same category.As for your example of my calling the anti-gun people “nuts” – it isn’t the same thing.
We do not know the “history of time travel” but we DO know the history of Europe and America and that many, many times history has shown that tyrants take arms from the people to keep themselves in power.
This has been repeated over and over throughout history.
Our history, our time line.
So, I could care less if they are “upset” by me calling them nuts. They are, plain and simple, ignorant people who do not know or understand their own history – and who use emotionalism to take something away. They are wrong and by my defination they are nuts.
You are calling everyone sheep who are going along with the story line here, because they are curious, wish to learn, understand or perhaps even believe that there is some truth to the story. There is nothing wrong with someone following along or playing along with the story, it certainly does not make them sheep.The difference is, we do not know for certain Time Travelers can affect the world time line of ourselves.
If they can and do, we WOULDN’T KNOW IT! If, as in John’s example, he goes up the hill and helps the Radar folks (and I’m very familiar with not only this particular story, I’m familiar with various historical changes that MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED because I’ve written a paper on that VERY subject many years ago in college) – then there might have been changes that would have prevented us from entering the war, developing the bomb before Hitler and perhaps we would all be speaking German today.
So if that happened because of a time traveler… would we know it? How do we know that someone DIDN’T interfere already ALLOWING US TO WIN THE WAR? We do not know this.Michael E. Hendrickson: Just a couple quick comments, because I am not sure I understand where you’re coming from. Apparently you have a problem with “militia” people.
I’ll tell you this from my point of view, with 26 years of military and goverment service, having sworn to protect and defend the Constitution. I have been on both sides of this fence.
The Constitution is first. Before anything else.
Militia people – those who fancy themselves as protectors of the Constitution – are. They are very keen on what is going on in the world today. They will be backed up by military members should a “civil war” ever occur in this country.
The military will protect the Constitution first.
You see, the government is by, of and for the people – meaning that people run it. People are part of this country and people are corruptable, regardless of your belief that they aren’t.In the past six months, several illegal raids by the BATF have occurred in Mesa, Arizon.
I will give you the opportunity to look up the information yourself, because you won’t find it in the normal media. But you will find that people like the Right to Keep and Bear Arms organizations have been tracking these things.
So, the government, run by people who make mistakes DO MAKE MISTAKES. And they need to get their act together before a lot more people become aware of their mistakes.
I don’t care if you’re anti-gun or not, that’s fine. But if you are (not you personally, but “you” in the generic sense) then you are unaware of the GOOD that guns can do – or simply do not care (this is not directed at you Michael, but the general anti-gun people who say things similar to what you did).And for the record – just because you’re paranoid, it doesn’t mean people ARE NOT OUT TO GET YOU! Remember that. A little paranoia goes a long way to keeping people honest. That is a fact. In my current position, if I WEREN’T paranoid, I couldn’t get my job done!!!!!!!!!!!!Albert Cattoir: Albert, I’m not sure if you were trying to teach me something or not. You didn’t tell me anything I did not already know and understand.
Let me tell you something… I have lived in Detroit Michigan, Oklahoma City, Washington, DC and Colorado Springs – among other places. All of those places had dozens of nuclear warheads pointed at them during the cold war. Some STILL have nukes aimed at them (specifically where I live now, at NORAD. So, like you I’ve lived under that shroud as well.I was there with Reagan and Bush.
I wear a belt buckle George H. W. Bush gave me just prior to his inaguration – not that it has bearing on this conversation, but it shows at least to me and my family that I’ve been there through some of the most important moments of history in the 20th century.
I was there when the wall fell.
I was there when the Iranian rescue mission failed.
I was there, and shot at several times, during the contra days in the late ’70s.
I understand and fully aggree with the old SDI projects, and now NMD. That’s my job… I want it to succeed and work. I would love nothing more than to see nuclear weapons become an obselete, even archane and useless weapon.So, please do not assume that because you were there, the rest of us were not. As to your last comments….[There will not be a limited Nuclear War in my estimation. Having all lived through this 50 years of crap, makes us not be interested by annoying people claiming this or that after having a Cold War with Russian leaders. We are not amused at this type of behavior. This will not cause a Civil War, or a Nuclear War, got it.]In your estimation – opinion, there will not.
In MY estimation – it CAN happen and will if the opportunity presents itself to those who wish to see American fall.Denial, however, is a symptom from which we all suffer from time to time. We do not want to see bad things come to pass and therefore deny it can possibly happen.
Civil war can be caused by many things.
In our country – a place considered by us Americans to be the best place in the world to live, it hasn’t happened since the 1870s… a barbaric time in history.
Now, we believe we are above that.
I hope we are. However, look around you. Examine the distrust people have for a growingly powerful government that can arrest you for even THINKING bad thoughts today.
The so-called “Hate Crimes” bills they keep trying to pass are a good example.
Who cares what you and I think about each other, or someone else? Only those who feel “threatened” by our thoughts. Why should I bow down to someone who believes I SHOULD NOT THINK A CERTAIN WAY?
Civil war is not only POSSIBLE in this country, if trends in social behavior continue, and government continues to grow at an exponential rate, taking more and more of YOUR MONEY then more and more people will become dissatisfied.Limited nuclear war is NOT impossible and under some circumstances, very probable.
You seem to forget that our national policy is to use nuclear weapons if attacked by anyone with any weapons of mass destruction. That is, if some city in the US, or military personnel (or embassy) were attacked with nuclear, biological or chemical weapons, our response would be swift, and severe.
A nuclear strike on the perpetrators WILL happen.
At that point it becomes a limited nuclear war. (If something I saw yesterday has any truth, then we were so close to a nuclear war during the Kursk incident, you people will pee your pants!)John’s being on this forum and making the claims he makes points out that there are indeed social problems today with which we all live. Those social problems, indeed the world problems we observe all around us from Israel to Russia, from Central America to Washington DC show that we live in an unstable world, in the 21st Century.
Our actions – those actions of individuals – touch the lives of many, many others around us. People we know and do not know will be touched by one thing you do today.If John is a time traveler, out of his own time line, then he exists here today because of something some scientists did some time ago, just as some people, perhaps entire families DO NOT EXIST TODAY because of the actions of some other scientists in 1945 at the Trinity site in New Mexico.Today might be the day that a new Einstein is born, or dies due to an accident. Today might be they day aliens land and make first contact. I doubt that any of these things will happen, but that doesn’t make it impossible. Keeping our minds open to the possibilities of WHAT MIGHT BE only helps us to prevent the evil things that might befall the human race.
To deny that evil can happen, denies good the chance to defend itself.
Posted by John Titor on 03-02-2001 08:07 AM
I plan to address the previous questions in more detail but I thought this was interesting and might add something.
Lola States:((I postulate that you actually do not have any more of an advantage or responsibility than the person who grabs someone who is about to step off the curb and get hit by a bus. I would not stop and think ‘gee, I don’t know, do they deserve to be saved from the fate of a roadkill?’ A doctor or priest does not take it upon himself to decide who should be helped. A jet pilot doesn’t stop to think “Hey, air travel is pretty unnatural, these people should have to walk and row their way to Paris. I am messing with the way time and space is perceived and the nature of reality with this form of transportation.” Time travel is just another form of transportation in one sense. Our possible new ability to time travel in the future may not seem any more exotic than our ability to access other cultures is now.))
I agree with this also.
((Why is it different than using a jet to go to a primitive tribe and give them, say, antiobiotics. (never mind the problems with antibiotics)It is a high tech way of interfering with a culture. Who cares what time zone. Ethically isn’t it the same?))JIM:(( Are you posting on other (non time travel related) boards without revealing your status as a time traveler? Is the conversation as interesting? What are your conclusions so far?))
Not really, there are a number of science rooms and other chats I do visit and just sit and watch.
I have discovered that people who frequent this board and some others have the most open and creative minds.
I realize no one actually believes me but they are still able to look past that and ask some very important and interesting questions.
CRAIG:((… are, or were, you in contact with TTs in 2036, and if so, what percentage of the people accept it as possible? After the flight of the Wright Brothers at Kitty Hawk, it took 10 plus years for people to accept it as anything more than just an urban myth.))
The general public was informed about time travel around 2034.
Yes, I have had conversations with other time travelers on my home worldline.
Your insight on the public is more or less correct. I would say 60% of the people realize what it is and the possible implications, 20% of the people don’t care, 10% don’t believe it and another 10% see it as something that should be banned and stopped.
DOUG:((Likewise, imagine if a time traveler from the future came to this time period and told us the secret of time travel.))
Yes, imagine that. Do you think that would be a good thing or a bad thing?
RICK:((John – commercials. They are ignorant commercials. In fact, almost every commercial on television these days are either totally stupid (so they come out funny), or they are aimed at people whose humor suffers from being “in the black” a lot. Black humor seems to be the way things go these days. I don’t much care for it.))
Back in the 50s and 60s, television commercials were pretty straightforward. Usually along the lines of, “Cheese! It’s good! Buy cheese.”
In the 70s, there was more identification with a producer or trademark but the commercials were still pretty easy to understand. “Buy this beer, it tastes great!”
Today, I have no idea what some commercials are advertising until they show the logo at the end. Do you find this more effective?
Only recently have I seen this move toward dark humor. I’ve never seen anything like it before, even in “your” archives in 2036.
FLIP top of 20
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-02-2001 12:01 PM
Rick,
Your post brought to mind a conversation I had with a woman from Yugoslavia several years ago just a few months before the war started there. She was very adamant that there could be no real civil strife. Everyone got along very well, there were mixed marriages, mixed neighborhoods and in general everyone and everything was very civilized.
Not a year later they were in a full civil war and doing unimaginable things to one another.
This woman was a University philosophy professor who had spent her entire life in Yugoslavia.
As you say, anything can happen.
People are the same EVERYWHERE. It is foolish to imagine that things that happen in Cambodia, Yugoslavia, Africa and have happened here are now no longer possible because we are now so evolved and civilized.
History has the most important lessons for us yet we are unable to learn from them (or maybe it is truly impossible for us to change). But one thing is for sure-History repeats itself.Lola
At that comment, I would like to post a comment that I found on Free Republic on 4DEC18. Ths comment is in regards to the huge number of non-citizens that get free benefits in America and the fact that Americans themselves cannot qualify for those benefits.
The U.S. is like a sick animal covered with ticks.-10 posted on 12/4/2018, 6:43:13 AM by SpaceBar
Civilizations, nations and people all follow a natural process of birth, growth, stagnation and decay.
Meanwhile, back to the the archives…
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-02-2001 01:13 PM
Lola… you’re right, and I think you said what I was trying to say in a short note. Thanks.In America, we look around us and see a civilized society – where gangs, criminals and hoodlums carry guns illegally every day, and USE THEM – but law-abiding, non-violent people are denied the ease of obtaining or carrying weapons with which to defend themselves.Obviously, this is not everywhere. I think 37 states now have Right to Carry laws now. Colorado, where I live has limited issue licenses for concealed weapons.The point here is that LITTLE things like this challenge us every day. People somehow feel that “a new law” will fix a problem, when really, only common sense – and an understanding of previous laws would really fix the problem. I bring the weapons situation up, because it is a daily concern in my life, as well as the lives of many around me. It is a “hot button” issue for a LOT of people. You either want gun control or you want no gun control.There are those who want to be in the middle (like a certain Congressman who hears from me weekly anymore) and concern yourself with “common sense gun laws” – which still ban guns to some extent.These hot button issues cause people to get upset and DO SOMETHING about the situation. Sometimes one side takes it futher than the other side, which then escalates the situation.No… there is no reason to believe that we will never have another civil war in this country, and there is definately no reason to believe there will never be a nuclear strike on ourselves or another country. Whether or not either of these scenarios would be survivalable is debatable but moot – since the possibilities exist that civil war, and/or nuclear war (whether limited or all-out) still exist.The American or Western culture to which most of us posting here belong, are different in some ways than other countries. But, we are all still human. Humans make mistakes, misinterpert information, and humans simply in large numbers have differences of opinions. Humans… kill their own kind too.Sorry for getting a bit off topic, but I’m still stuck on the Time Traveler Predictions John has given us. While John might not be a real time traveler, I can see merit in his statements.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-02-2001 01:29 PM
Don’t get me wrong. I like the topic of time travel.
Its been known that every civilization that has had something new given to them, say antibiotics, new medicine, or a new belief, has been known to eventually destroy themselves.
The same way if we ever met a alien not from our Planet.
This supposedly has happen, so has time travel. So, the end result is because we were exposed to this, this civilization as we know it, destroys itself. The same question in a form is still asked today:
If a human walks outside and there is a dark cloud overhead, the human says “I think I will grab an umbrella, it may rain”.
The other human walking outside with the first human, says “You will not need an umbrella, if no human exists, then no human will know that there was a dark cloud overhead.”
Which type of human are you, either one or both, or most important, to answer to yourself, why?
If we think that humanity will destroy itself, then maybe our prophecy will fulfill itself, if we think the other way, then John may be already be in an alternate reality in a parallel universe in which case, the future as he knows it never happens.
It reminds me of the show with Jonathan Burke about the book, “Connections”.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-02-2001 03:11 PM
Typing of “Connections”:How can John assume that as dangerous humans on this Planet, we won’t kart off his 500lbs. time machine, so we develop time travel by the year 2036?How can anyone go to jail for stealing a toy that was made in the future?Do not worry, John, we will help get you back to your own reality and own real parallel Universe, so you can travel back in time by the year 2036.
You may have to go through a few alternate realities and parallel Universes, but you will get back to the future.
Any second of any minute of any hour of any day before you leave, we may interfere with your plans?
Do we fulfill any future prophecy by doing this, afterall we assume that we really are dangerous humans on this Planet?
I do not assume that it will be me who does this, it may be someone else, who can tell?
Posted by John Titor on 03-02-2001 03:14 PM
FLIP:((Is spiritual awakening a difficult process; if yes, then why is it so difficult, and are we all capable of it?))Personally, I believe spiritual awakening is difficult. Why? I think God wants us back but the road we have to haul is no picnic. Maybe he’s a little angry for some reason.I think the world is seductively clever in its presentation. “It” wants us to stay here and it distracts us from God by creating want, greed and four or five other motivations. Our goal should be to; yes, have faith and do good deeds but also look past that and have the wisdom and knowledge to realize that this place, this world, this universe is not really our home. The question I ask myself is not can I get to God, it’s am I prepared for what will it be like when I get there.RANDY:((There are plenty of great mysteries, but if your only aim its to ‘get to God’, it is not necessary to solve them.))I mean mysteries not of this world. For example: I suspect that the final thing we will have to give up to get to God is our free will. Do you think many people will be standing at the pearly gates saying “yes” to that one if they had a choice to come back here?[It's statements like this that puts me in the pro-John Titor is a "time traveler" column. -Metallicman]((What do you see for the future of TT in your world-line?))That’s a good question. I am hopeful that one day when we get the planet cleaned up it will be a nice place to live on again and no one will want to leave it. On the other hand, if time travel were commonplace right now, I think a great many people would leave and perhaps never return. There is also a suggestion that time travel might make an interesting punishment. However, I don’t think we have the right to force criminals on unsuspecting worldlines and sending them to the Stone Age might be a bit much.
“All Our Yesterdays” is a third season (and the penultimate) episode of the American science fiction television series Star Trek, first broadcast March 14, 1969, and repeated on August 5, 1969. It is episode #78, production #78. In this scene McCoy and Spock are saved by Zarabeth, a beautiful woman who takes them to a sheltered cave. As McCoy recovers from severe exposure, Zarabeth explains to Spock that she too is from Sarpeidon’s future, but a tyrant banished her to this era after some of her relatives were implicated in an assassination plot.
JEANETTE:((I had met someone, a year or so ago, who said he was from the year 2036 also. He said something happened to make this travel all the more possible. He gave me some details, I wonder if they are the same as yours.))Although not impossible, I doubt there is another time traveler here from 2036.
I have been chatting on and off for quite a while and in other chatrooms.
I have also seen and heard about other people who have taken a creative license with some of the things I’ve said and posted. It might have been me but I’ve never heard of the DNE.RICHARD((John,thank you for sharing,I find this fasinating.wanted to ask, has California,had”the Big” earthquake,in your time and has any of the north Coast disappeared?..also, I really do wish that you could be a guest on Art’s show,I am sure it would be enjoyable…thanks again…..Richard.))The big one? As you are experiencing now, there are earthquakes, storms and other unfortunate surprises from Mother Nature that have impacts on your society and future history. That is one reason I won’t go into detail.
However, don’t worry too much about major portions of coastline slipping under water.I do enjoy Art’s show very much and I must admit I’ve been surprised more than once by some of the things I’ve heard.
I’ve seen reference to other “time travelers” that Art has spoken with and I realize his credibility (and ability to have an entertaining program) is at stake when he talks to someone making such extreme claims. As you all know, I think skepticism is good.I enjoy talking to you too. Thanks for the enlightenment.CRAIG on page 20:
Posted by Barbara Clements on 03-02-2001 07:51 PM
John, all kidding aside, an extremely important thing; do they ever get around to making any new Aeon Flux episodes?
Posted by Lynne Lynch on 03-02-2001 07:57 PM
Just a couple of questions for you,1. Can you say if the Geon will be ever be revealed at all in the future?2. What do Guinea Pigs eat in your time frame?
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-03-2001 12:07 PM
SmileJohn,I was thinking about what you wrote here in your previous thread: “”…There is also a suggestion that time travel might make an interesting punishment. However, I don’t think we have the right to force criminals on unsuspecting worldlines and sending them to the Stone Age might be a bit much. “”Whoa! now there is a thought.putting criminals back in time for punishment.What if you put a repeat offender rapist back in the stoneage, or even further….before man.And he started mating with everything he could find.His first target would probably be the apes since there would be no other humans around.He might even create a half-ape/half-man being.Which might alter entire belief systems when they dug up the bones later. Leading people to believe we came from apes.How’s that for creative thinking???? hahahaWhat if he left footprints? or worse yet…a shoe print?Putting angry criminals back in time is probably not a good idea. could you imagine the consequences??hmmmm, I think I know what you mean now by no absolute truths when dealing with time travel….things could always change.sincerely,pamela
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-03-2001 03:12 PM
Okay, the US has social problems. Every country does, including Russia.
Its not a debate to be that War in any form can be avoided. Let’s take the scenarios that John lays out.
A Civil War needs a leader first.
How is this done? By groups hanging out in the invisible. Maybe. The Congress and President drafts everyone it can, the military takes over at first, marshall law can be declared.
What happens, leaders take over, and the President is still left free to perform other duties like monitering Russia.
Russia supposedly attacks.
How limited is the nuclear war.
First it must be defined. Any kind of debate concludes that you are assuming that some form of life exists when it is all over. How many missiles is limited? 150 missiles. How many get through? Einstein used a thought experiment, or imagined relativity. We shoot most of the missiles down, so does Russia, China does not.
Little wars start all over the World. North and South Korea, India and Pakistan. Use nuclear missiles.
The US may bomb Iraq. Now how many missiles are flying totally. Over 500 about. That may be just enough to end life on this Planet. The oceans heat up, the water recedes from ultraviolet radiation from the Sun. The Polar Caps start melting, the oceans go up. The magnetic pole of the Earth shifts, it goes too far. The Earth starts moving off it spin axis, resulting in more destruction. Earthquakes now take place, the atmosphere depletes letting water vapor out into space. The land starts going under the water level. Animals turn on humans.
Elephants drop over, trample things. On and on, all because humans could not imagine what the result would be of even a limited nuclear war. Would humans survive this? I do not want to find out.
There’s seem to be an emotion about having a limited nuclear war, that humans would survive, it still takes thought processes. Whatever they are feeling for that emotion is nothing that I want to be around. I am not their slave. The result, life ends even if it takes just a little longer.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-03-2001 09:35 PM
Pamela,Banishing criminals to the past – an interesting thought.I’m glad that there seems to be no evidence that that has happened. As it happens, “criminals” are my business and have been so for the past thirty-three years.I’d have some very strong objections to sending them into the Stoneage (or any other prior age for that matter). As it happens, there truly isn’t a strong correlation between low intelligence and criminal behavior. Criminals tend to be less educated but do possess at least average intelligence.
If we were to send them into the past we’d create a timeline where “modern” ingenuity and “modern” man appear in (circa) 10,000 BC…thus no Stoneage.
Even with a limited education the banished would introduce the technical skills of their chosen trades into that age (criminals really do have work skills – even skills that qualify as “expert” by our standards.) It gets worse if you send them into a “pre-human” era. By fiat you have re-defined “pre-human” to exclude that period from being “pre-human.”OT area:I still see no practical applicability for time travel to our experience.
If it turns out that string or bubble theory is true then time travel is possible – but the “place” traveled to has no connection to our reality. And a successful return trip from another bubble or string is tenuous at best. One would have no way of verifying that the timeline to which they returned was the same timeline from which they left.
If it turns out that there is but one unified timeline, then any meddling with the past (i.e. time traveling) ends causality on the timeline from the instant of the Big Bang and renders the timeline untenable – that is, it precludes the formation of our universe. (The reason for positing that causality ends at the instant of the Big Bang is the result of contamination.
If time travel is possible in a non-string/bubble reality then the time line has the entirity of eternity for time travelers to contaminate the whole of the time line.
Causality fails at all instants on the time line and it collapses before it forms. A macro-singularity of mass-energy & space-time, as it were.)Frankly, I’m probably no different than anyone else who logs onto the Time Travel threads. Thinking about, fantasizing about and pondering the significance of time travel is fascinating. This facet of modern theoretical physics and philosophy is the cutting edge of critical thought.I suppose that time travel is so fascinating for me because everyone who poses an opinion is potentially correct – without exclusion. If time travel can be accomplished then it will be accomplished. Because our timeline appears to be one where cause and effect are directly related then it would appear that string-bubble reality is proved in that context. Our four dimensional view of reality is one (of an infinite array of possibilities) where cause precedes effect. That may not be true of other timelines.
[One of the on-going themes in this "time travel" business is the blank assumption that we all share the same reality; that there is one "world-line" that we all occupy, and from time to time, a person travels from it. In reality, there are multiple realities, and one reality per consciousness. When you look at everything from that point of view all these arguments against time travel collapse. -Metallicman.]
Posted by Bob Marz on 03-04-2001 06:51 AM
RE: Getting back to one’s own timeI assume as we get to the final touches of engineering time travel we will devise a system to ensure a return trip. Analogous to bringing along a ball of twine and letting it out, or, as Hansel and Gretal did, drop breadcrumbs along the way to follow back, or, as spelunkers do sometimes, tie down an anchor point and explore on the tether.There will have to be a fixed starting point that the electronics can follow back. Or some sort of electronic marker or “fix” will be referenced before the trip starts. This means, of course, more sophisticated computers than that old IBM box that John uses (or gear that works in conjunction with it).
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-04-2001 02:54 PM
Thumbs upGot a message back from Doc. John’s images are back up.He said he did some study on the problem, and it seems that Geocities is blocking links from other servers that attempt to access their database.He said he put tto’s images on his comteck server for right now until he can find another one. The pics work on the forum now despite interferance from geocities.magisystemstimelordsanonymusI knew Doc would find a way! hurray DOC!sincerely,pamela[Edited by Mary Rowland on 03-05-2001 at 12:07 AM]
Posted by E. Robert Gonzalez on 03-04-2001 03:35 PM
QuestionI have been a temporal researcher for at least two years now and mostly studied radionic forms of time travel. I personally have not yet used one of the devices but have heard stories and evidence leading me to think they work.
I was also wondering if you have heard of any of the radionic and Steven Gibbs devices.
I have had a possible encounter with my future self that I can only characterize as being very strange. He knew all my most personal thoughts and convinced me over a period of about a year that he was me or atleast someone who knew me very well.
Apparently he came from an alternate time line like you, and his motive seemed more like an informational one to me. It appears at some point in time I might time travel although I’m not sure.
What he told me somewhat corresponds to what you say and that’s what scares me.
[Yikes! - Metallicman.]
I was hoping maybe it was just a future in another universe much different from ours and that my future would be some what peaceful and good to live in.
I now see a picture of a world that is war torn and hard to live in. At first I was skeptical and then accepted you as being a true time traveler with all the evidence and stories you put forth. I hope to maybe send a comment to my future self and ask a couple of questions.
I would like to tell my future self this message: “Never forget Echelon Group and the ones you love you most, keep strong and don’t give up.”
If his time line is anything like mine, he’ll know what I mean. It’s just something to keep his spirits up.
Now for some questions, is it possible that I somehow help any areas of time travel or get noticed in the future (Maybe recognize my name)? Do most of the people of that time die out, especially ones that currently have health problems?
Is it possible that sometime in your future or in your present time that time travel will be common place?
Have any of the scientists of your time discovered any new planets, possibly ones with life?
Has the bandwidth of the internet increased greatly? And finally, one last question…how did Texas fare during the war (If you can answer)?
Thanks for your time…I hope maybe I can e-mail you or maybe I can e-mail you some how and talk for awhile.[Edited by E. Robert Gonzalez on 03-04-2001 at 03:41 PM]
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 03-04-2001 03:44 PM
– – – “Craig on Page 20” ….What comes after that??? LOL
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-05-2001 02:02 AM
E. Robert Gonzalez,I take it by your last name that your Spanish, am I right? I noticed from your post that you believe John’s claims, that he’s actually a bona-fined Time Traveler. You know, once I asked John a very similar question to the one you just asked him. “Am I deeply involved in a Time Travel project?” Knowing already the answer to that question, he answered me by saying that he didn’t know me. And that if he did, he wouldn’t tell me.To everyone:I just wanted to emphasis to the whole public viewing these posts that John still has not made it clear what his secret agenda is. To allow our minds to accept what he says to be true, we accept the very immorality of his secret agenda, whatever it may be.He is a Time Traveler, most of you people believe. Do most of you also believe that he is sincere in everything he says? Yet you forget that he said he would take people back with him.I know that some of you wanted to volunteer. Yet John lied, and now your faith in him is still strong, adjusting accordingly to keep his ideals true. Why am I the only one bringing this up, questioning him? Maybe because I don’t believe him, and because I won’t be disappointed like some of you if I find out he isn’t a Time Traveler. Reminds me of the Heaven’s Gate movement all over again.That’s pathetic isn’t it? I know that some of you want to admit it; you’re in the closet, thinking it over. Whether he truly is, or isn’t. You still have that doubt that refuses to answer. You have a voice… don’t be afraid of using it and taking leadership.Somebody has to be on the opposing side, am I to believe that I am the only one?John has many followers on his side; there is no doubt about that. But do you know what you are actually following?He has put his younger self in danger of someday being found out and exploited by our government. He has exploited the opportunity of using the past to rowdy up events for some secret agenda he claims to have. Saying he will video tape his departure, completely irresponsible of its repercussions. Just to name a few.The choice is ours people; our future is what we want it to be. Do most of you want a future where Time Travel is a way of life? I know I don’t, because how would you feel knowing that your life is not yours to dictate, but mainly what the future wants it to be.I wouldn’t dare think of exploiting the past, to benefit in some event in the future. That goes against my ethics. Obviously, some of you will have no problem with that, and ruin it for the rest of us. Gee, thanks a lot.Sincerely yours,Javier C.
Posted by John Titor on 03-05-2001 06:06 AM
((He is a Time Traveler, most of you people believe. Do most of you also believe that he is sincere in everything he says? Yet you forget that he said he would take people back with him.))Could you do me a favor and point out exactly where I made that offer? I do recall a few people asking what it would be like but I don’t believe I ever offered to take people back.
J.C., a few days ago on Art’s show, I heard Art make refrence to someone named J.C. who was very persistant in calling the show when ever the subject of time travel came up. If it’s you, I admire your dedication.
Also, what happened to your “time cop” thread?
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-05-2001 07:18 AM
Gooten Tag – one and all.I’ve just spent the worst weekend. Wish I could go back in time and correct it.Albert: First I want to address some things you said, but not your entire message. I’ll try to keep my comments brief.“Let’s take the scenarios that John lays out. A Civil War needs a leader first. How is this done? By groups hanging out in the invisible. Maybe.”There are already very, very large militia groups that formed around the time of the last elections. In fact, the NRA is being considered a ‘militia group’ by some now. It grew by millions prior to the elections – mainly due to direct attacks on the right to keep and bear arms. Organizations such as the Militia of Montana have gained hundreds of members in recent weeks. There are others, that are larger. There are leaders, there are invisible groups that even I don’t know about (and I keep track of who’s who in the militia arena – for personal reason, nothing related to my job).“The Congress and President drafts everyone it can, the military takes over at first, marshall law can be declared. What happens, leaders take over, and the President is still left free to perform other duties like monitering Russia. Russia supposedly attacks. ”If and when Martial Law is declared – that will be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. The current President KNOWS this, and CLinton knew it too. I surmise from his last actions (the pardons for instance) that he felt the timing wrong for declaring martial law and would have if he thought he could have remained in office. Many of the groups I mentioned before were braced for precisely that event. They are braced for martial law. The biggest thing is that if martial law is declared, some believe UN forces will be brought in to suplement US forces. Why? Because foreigners do not have qualms about shooting americans. Keep that in mind if things start looking like they are moving toward that sort of thing.John – can you… confirm from your point of view any of that? (Nothing specific there obviously).“How limited is the nuclear war. First it must be defined. Any kind of debate concludes that you are assuming that some form of life exists when it is all over. How many missiles is limited? 150 missiles. How many get through? Einstein used a thought experiment, or imagined relativity. We shoot >most of the missiles down, so does Russia, China does not. Little wars start all over the World. North and South Korea, India and Pakistan. Use nuclear missiles. The US may bomb Iraq. Now how many missiles are flying totally. Over 500 about. That may be just enough to end life on this Planet. The oceans heat up, the water recedes from ultraviolet radiation from the Sun. The Polar Caps start melting, the oceans go up. The magnetic pole of the Earth shifts, it goes too far. The Earth starts moving off it spin axis, resulting in more destruction. ”Obviously, all of this is supposition on both our parts. However, I agree with you about the “smaller wars”. As far as how many get through… right now, all of them. Life will exist when it is all over. You know why? Because there have been many, many “Ice Ages” throughout our geological history. There have been at least 5, (I believe 6) major extinctions already in the history of our planet. Each time a major extinction has occurred the dominate life forms were destroyed, and yet life continued to survive, then thrive and finally a new, dominate life form took over. Each obviously more intelligent than the last.The last two involved dinosaurs and other higher lifeforms, and man is the latest incarnation of dominate lifeform on this planet. Man is capable of total destruction of this world if man does so.“There’s seem to be an emotion about having a limited nuclear war, that humans would survive, it still takes thought processes. Whatever they are feeling for that emotion is nothing that I want to be around. I am not their slave. The result, life ends even if it takes just a little longer.”Emotion is the main ingredient in any war, regardless of whether or not it is nuclear or conventional. People get mad, they fight, they argue and eventually they go to war as a group/country/nation/race/religion/etc. The thought processes change radically from “let’s get along” to “those BASTARDS” to “let’s kill them all” and then back to a very organized thought process of how best to kill the enemy.But, the part that precipitates a war takes very little effort or thought on the part of the antagonists. They simply let their emotions take over. When it gets too far, war starts and after the beginning of the war – the thoughts turn to killing, not how to get out of the war.Nuclear weapons are the ultimate device with which to put a stop to a war. As such they won’t be used until they are deemed absolutely necessary. But, once a war begins, the possibility exists, and as low as the probabilities might seem, they are always much higher than any of us believe.As we can see from this forum alone, the human mind grabs hold of ideas that are on the fringe and believes them. But thoughts that are scary, deadly and even point to the real truth about humanity (how bad and evil people can be if they want) we try to deny those possibilities. We do not wish to believe that the human race is capable of some of the evil that we’ve seen in the past.So – we try to deny it. My point throughout this forum, to everyone including you and Javier is that even if you do not BELIEVE in something, do not believe it can happen, you STILL MUST keep your mind open to the possibilities because then you are forewarned. Forewarned is forearmed.Rick
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-05-2001 08:38 AM
John,That didn’t stop you from having people believe it. You could have come forward and made a public announcement to get it straight with people the first time. And now finally you say you never said it. What not say that the first time I brought it up too?My guess, is that I out-witted you, and now you finally found a come back .Your guess is as good as mine on the thread. I have no idea where it went to. Perhaps it’s the J.C. that’s calling Art’s show. Maybe it’s a future me, who took it down to minimize speculation.Knowing how I am, I know that I will not rest until I bring Time Travel Violators to justice. So maybe there is a high chance that it could be me. Why, scared John? You sounded nervous to me.-J.C.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-05-2001 09:20 AM
I leave the Mr. Time Traveler, and all, a parting gift. The meaning of life is explicit, the questions are not. Whether John’s future is true or not, whether any possibility exists, whether foreigner will kill citizens of the US. The answers were always there, written by other people long ago thinking about life.Written by Thomas Jefferson, June 1776, :When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government.The thinking has all been done, still the questions will always be asked. What is the meaning of life? There a glimpse of it from Thomas Jefferson.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-05-2001 09:39 AM
“But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government. ”My point was, and still is that because of this document, because our government is self-governing, because the people control the outcome and not some entity called “government” there is and always will be, as long as the Constitution exists in its present form… the possibilities that those “in power” will make mistakes, either accidently or purposefully, and those accidents will lead to nodes in time.
[Reading comments like this, especially from the point of view of someone in 2018 is amusing...and sad. Yes, people actually believed that we were self-governing. We believed that our votes mattered and not some oligarch. We believed that wars were only fought when necessary, and our taxes would fix the roads. And that the laws were to protect us. What a bunch of dupes we were. - Metallicman.]This “node in time” is what I call the various crossroads where, if a certain incident had not occured then other, larger events would not have occurred.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-05-2001 10:21 AM
Very nicely put Albert.
I agree with Thomas Jefferson. We must do something. The way things are going, lots of people are just letting the government do things to us. No body takes enough of a stand anymore in matters of the government taking away our rights, our freedom.
Look at the picture our resident Time Travel painted for us.
We can’t do jack in his Time Line. And to make matters worse, Time Travel is a way of life to their government and people, and for what hidden agenda?I’ll bet you’ll have some very interesting stories to tell your government about us when you go back John . What will your report entitle?
That you weren’t prepared for the year 2001, and that you had information about your time device leak out?
It’s true; you stated you weren’t ready for the year 2001, who knows what things you could have done different had you been ready.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-05-2001 11:23 AM
And in conclusion, Thomas Jefferson wrote:In every stage of these oppressions we have petitioned for redress in the most humble terms: our repeated petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.Nor have we been wanting in attention to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence.
We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, enemies in war, in peace friends.The US is backed by NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
I think its safe to assume that the people who bought and paid for these weapons of mass destruction may well know what to do with the Devil as soon as I get there, or him, or her.
No, these weapons do not make the World safe, but I do know where I might be going, afterall: “How can God allow a person into Heaven even if that person is praying for forgiveness while still socking it to that place when whoever shows up down there, well maybe?
Is a further question maybe, are humans ever at Peace?
Posted by John Titor on 03-05-2001 11:32 AM
CRAIG:((What music do 20 year olds listen to.))People listen to all types of music. A great deal of it is available over the web. I would also add that people spend much more time making their own music.((What’s the future of cloning.))Cloning full people has been determined to be medically and ethically unsound. We do have research and progress in cloning body parts and creating more viable sperm and egg production.((Any more on Bill Gates? ))Not really. Just curious, why is he of such interest?((Do people wear chips yet?))No. People value their personal independence and ability to take care of themselves.((Are you a marked man?))Not that I’m aware of.LOLA:((I would still like to know what population makes a city big.))Cities become targets because of their military and economic value. Any large area supported by a civil infrastructure is likely to be on that list.((Your time sounds grim. Are you tempted to deliver your computer to 2036 and then retire in the 1970’s? ))
Not at all. I’m anxious to get home.((What did you think about those commercials?))I think those commercials capitalize on other people’s misery and misfortune in an attempt to sell a product. I can understand coming up with an idea like but what confuses me is how does it get past that stage? How do people sit in a room around a large conference table and agree that leaving a critically injured person lying in the snow is funny and will sell cell phones?Page 21
Posted by Chester Ward on 03-05-2001 12:15 PM
I’m new to the forum as of today and having just read the older discussions, I can tell you when you “invited” people to time-hop with you. Although your post of February 9th wasn’t truly an invitation to join you when you travel back, I can see how it could have been taken by some as being such.I’d love to go back to the funkier times of the ’70s; every day I feel more out of step with today’s world. If there’s room for me and you are amenable to it, could you really drop me off in 1975? If so please reply. Thank you.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-05-2001 12:24 PM
SmileAhh haa. Busted John.See you did lie, and you kept it going. So your just as guilty whether or not you implied it directly or not. The point is, people believed you, and you did nothing to stop that.Way to go John, still waiting for that public apology.
Posted by John Titor on 03-05-2001 12:52 PM
((Although your post of February 9th wasn’t truly an invitation to join you when you travel back, I can see how it could have been taken by some as being such.))I’m sure many things by many people are taken in many ways. I find this an interesting point because I think its important to have implied agreements on words and meanings before you can talk with another person. If it wasn’t an invitation (by your own acknowledgement), am I responsible for what people think? If I am, how would you propose that I double check that? Are there really that many people out there upset about this?((Way to go John, still waiting for that public apology.))I publicly apologize for confusing you J.C. and anyone else who is packing their old bell-bottoms and shalls for a trip back to 1975.
Just curious J.C. Can you think of anything I could do to prove to you that I’m not a time traveler?
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-05-2001 01:06 PM
Smile((Just curious J.C. Can you think of anything I could do to prove to you that I’m not a time traveler? ))I’m confused… what do you mean? I don’t think you are. Just wanted you to get your own story stright that’s all.It’s not my fault I found some discrepancies. You didn’t get upset with Pamela when she did too. All I did was pointed them out to you. Just how she did. Right?Hypocrisy, I tell you.-J.C.P.S. Now don’t you feel better now after you apologize? It wasn’t so hard after all, I don’t see why you waited so long to do so ?[Edited by Javier Cortez on 03-05-2001 at 01:29 PM]
Posted by Barbara Clements on 03-05-2001 01:14 PM
John;Since Heaven’s Gate was mentioned, I would like to say those involved in Heaven’s Gate were seeking a meaning for their lives. They wanted the easy way out, to hand thinking over to someone else, and follow with the implication they were now endowed with that meaning. I think they must’ve had a feeling of lack of meaning in the first place. Maybe people wish to believe in a time traveler in order to feel the same way. That they have meaning to their lives, proved by the fact that they are under the surveilance of someone ‘important’.Perhaps you are a time traveler, perhaps you are Whitley Streiber under a pen name, who knows? Thomas Jefferson wrote with thoughts that mattered not if he ever transcended his own time bodily, his mind did it for him. The beauty of his soul came from his ability to think in relation to his fellow human beings with empathy for their plight. If time travel is possible, someone please give him a bus ticket, because we need him in every time available.[Edited by Barbara Clements on 03-05-2001 at 01:44 PM]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-05-2001 01:21 PM
Now that we have the “What If Scenarios”.If it happens, it happens.
Similiar to questions asked here, another forum discussed some possibilities in the form a a Forum Story Googolplex. That was at http://www.sidgames.com/forums in the topic class: Off-Topic.
The story came down to the question “Can humans with run-on sentences increase the total mass of the Universe, at which point, it buldges at it seams, and we cause a split, or a duality, of the Universe with all of this Information Age, or that the Universe is destroyed, (blows up) from the increase in mass due to run-on sentences?”If it happens, well, I guess, it happened.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-05-2001 01:22 PM
Thumbs upBarbara,That was beautifully put . I hope though, that your post actually reach some people.
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-05-2001 01:47 PM
Barbara,Thomas Jefferson owned 2,000 slaves.Lola
[And your point is...? -Metallicman]
Posted by Chester Ward on 03-05-2001 01:48 PM
…about returning to ’75.I’m not in any way trying to jump on the “let’s trip John up” bandwagon here. I’m sorry if that’s how you took it. You asked if someone would point out the “invitation” and, as the post was fresh in my mind, I did, and also clarified it as “not exactly an invitation”. I asked if you’d consider taking a hitch-hiker, as I’ve no reason to doubt you’re being who you say you are, I absolutely believe time travel happens and have, for the past decade, dreamed of going back to simpler times. Since you’re stopping there anyway….
Posted by Randy Empey on 03-05-2001 02:15 PM
Javier —Actually, I have a question (which is along very simular lines as what I think John is getting at) that I want to see you answer: Can you prove or disprove anything? And if your answer to that is ‘Yes.’ then I’d also like to have you prove it.[Edited by Randy Empey on 03-05-2001 at 02:24 PM]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-05-2001 02:28 PM
Here is a link to Russia, http://allnews.ru , did I just prove it?
Posted by Barbara Clements on 03-05-2001 02:32 PM
Lola, those were the times.
Posted by E. Robert Gonzalez on 03-05-2001 02:45 PM
I probably worded it wrong when I talked about believing John. I am now leaning towards the possibility that he is a time traveler for alot of personal reasons as well.
I hope I can get my questions answered by John and further understand your apparently grim future. Apparently the more visible mission of my “future-self” was to save my future and that of my family’s. I am very worried about the future and would do my best to protect the ones I love.
If I can atleast be prepared for it, then maybe I’ll fare well.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-05-2001 02:50 PM
Randy,Prove what? All I did was point out John’s discrepancies. I think it’s proof enough, if you can see what he’s said in past post, and what he says now. It doesn’t match up.
Posted by John Titor on 03-05-2001 05:49 PM
ANGEL:((Can you tell us if reverse speech is used in the future for business or even pleasure?))I’m not very familiar with reverse speech but what I saw on the web leads me to conclude it’s a bit objective. I’m not sure if its been proven scientifically to be very accurate. Are you aware of any research that shows that?((Also, can you talk about earthquakes in California or Nevada?))No I can’t.
Besides, I see others predicting earthquakes and very few people pay any attention to them.((Thanks, John, for starting this topic and sharing your time with us. We are really enjoying it and you!))I appreciate that a great deal. Your future will be fine.RANDY:((Warping time and space takes lots of energy))Yes it does. A nuclear aircraft carrier and a space shuttle main engine also take a great deal of energy.((. .. making finding out if or how TT works hard . . . is this because of some accidental way the universe turned out, or is it a fundamental law written in by the Creator?))Hawking believes it’s possible to build a time machine but a mysterious energy will destroy it if anyone tries to use it.
In my opinion, manipulating gravity is not the hard part of time travel. Also, with great power comes great responsibility. If man has a limitation, that’s it.JAMES:((John Titor,what if something happens to your device to get back,let us say inoperable,would you then change the world by announcing warnings,and also what if you got a flat tire inbetwwen times would you have to pull over to fix it in a wrong time?))No, I wouldn’t do anything different if my machine broke. I would still be a stranger and a guest here. My opinions and “announcements” would also be the same as anyone else’s. I may however offer advice to my younger self.LOLA:((I still have some questions you have not responded to but hate to ask again in the event you do not wish to respond or just have not made your way to them yet. Could you let me know which? I will wait to hit you with more until I know the status.))If I missed something feel free to bring it up again.BRAD(( Why aren’t you traveling and telling us about your latest trip to the pyramids…))Yes, that would be fascinating but the unit I have is unable to go back that far accurately.((instead of talking about specifics you should be bored from in your awareness to them?))Not at all, I find the subject fascinating. There are two real issues I hope people think about when I’m gone.
One, how will you react when another time traveler shows up and two, how are we going to handle the responsibility of time travel when its invented.((Are the Great Pryamids still standing in 2036?))Yes, although one of them was severely damaged.((If you wish to experience society as it was, admitting yourself to be a time traverler is counter-productive.))Yes, if I was here for that purpose and if you believed me I suppose that would be an issue.((How’s communication around the world in 2036. Do you still have literature widely available?))Yes, books and other literature are available but most of the distribution is via the net.[Yet another John Titor prediction. Keep in mind that this dialog is from 1998.- Metallicman.]((What’s the latest book you’ve read that you were only able to hear about in your own time?))
The latest book I read was the autobiography of the Red Baron compiled from letters to his mother. Yes, I was aware of it in my own time but finding an original copy there was almost impossible.((Is new literature also so available?))Yes.((Is the english language begining to segment into sects and accents with less influence from trourists? Or is tourism still strong and thriving in 2036.))I would say the English language is pretty much the same as it is now. There are differences in slang and figures of speech but it’s nothing you couldn’t pick up. Yes, I suppose we do have “tourism”.CRAIG:Thanks again for the book reference.JAMES:((can you tell me what year the police will stop busting people for smoking weed???))It happens about the same time they stop coming to your house when you dial 911.((do they start pushing for legalization earlier than the war????))It’s not really an issue of the government letting you do something, It’s more like they have other things to worry about.
Don’t you feel you’re capable of taking care of yourself? If you want to take mood-altering drugs, why should my opinions stop you from that? They don’t stop you from taking alcohol, tobacco or fast food.[Written and penned in 1998 before President Clinton (and his minions) banned cigarettes all over the workplace, public parks, being near children, etc. This was before super-sized cokes were banned by the Democarats in power in NY and NJ. This was before the limitations placed on mnay of the vices that were taken for granted. - Metallicman]
In any case, it also lets Darwin take over. One of the reasons drug abuse isn’t a major problem in 2036 is because no one wants to die from it and everyone else who did is dead.
RICK 22
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-05-2001 06:25 PM
TalkingJohn,Hypothetically speaking, what will make your trip to the future impossible? And if you do go back, what here can change it?Even superman has weakness, and I am sure there is something or someone (hehe ) in this world that can change your future.Some Yang will always exist to oppose some Ying.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-05-2001 07:43 PM
Javier,You make the statement that you do not believe John is really a time traveler…..what is all of this then????(all from this thread..”Iam from 2036″)page 21:“That above example not just shows how irresponsible you are, but how ignorant as a Time Traveler you are as well: “I just don’t know. I was not prepared for the year 2001.” Good choice, 2036″page 22:..”and your future culture finds no flaw with prolonging it. Instead, they gave one of their Time Traveler (meaning you) a device to come to the past and exploit the chance to take and do as you and they see fit.Time Travel is an evil means to get what you want; I wouldn’t be surprised if your world is Satanic. ”page 24:“Hence my hatred towards Time Travel, and Time Travelers. ”“Someone’s got to do something. Who here has the guts to stand up for justice in the matter of temporal violators?”“And as for me being jealous of John, that’s not likely. Why would I be jealous of a Time Traveler? I hate Time Travelers”page 25:“I have to say John is very clever. But personally I don’t like Time Travelers, so I can’t be like you or the rest and listen to him. ”page 26:“Look at the picture our resident Time Travel painted for us. We can’t do jack in his Time Line. And to make matters worse, Time Travel is a way of life to their government and people, and for what hidden agenda?”“I’ll bet you’ll have some very interesting stories to tell your government about us when you go back John . What will your report entitle? That you weren’t prepared for the year 2001, and that you had information about your time device leak out? It’s true; you stated you weren’t ready for the year 2001, who knows what things you could have done different had you been ready”“knowing how I am, I know that I will not rest until I bring time Travel Violators to justice. So maybe there is a high chance that it could be me. Why, scared John? You sounded nervous to me.”“He has put his younger self in danger of someday being found out and exploited by our government. He has exploited the opportunity of using the past to rowdy up events for some secret agenda he claims to have. Saying he will video tape his departure, completely irresponsible of its repercussions. Just to name a few.The choice is ours people; our future is what we want it to be. Do most of you want a future where Time Travel is a way of life? I know I don’t, because how would you feel knowing that your life is not yours to dictate, but mainly what the future wants it to be. ”Javier,With all things considered, Is it not possible that people could misunderstand you as well?for anyone listening to these statements might just come to the conclusion that you may be the biggest believer of all.John said: ((Just curious J.C. Can you think of anything I could do to prove to you that I’m not a time traveler? ))sincerely,pamela“Prove what? All I did was point out John’s discrepancies. I think it’s proof enough, if you can see what he’s said in past post, and what he says now. It doesn’t match up. ”[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-05-2001 at 08:34 PM]
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 03-05-2001 08:09 PM
Barbara those were nice thoughts though isn’t it a bit presumptuous to imagine you know how the Heaven’s Gate people felt? It is my understanding that the majority of them had lived together for some 20 years and had spent a lot of time directly confronting the difficult issues of their own and each other’s lives, in an exciting, supportive and sometimes uncomfortably confrontive way.
People who wanted to leave were given $1000 to help get back into the swing of normal life. Most testimonials talked about how deep their experience of life had been on their path. People here in San Diego who had contact with them spoke of what a joy it was to just be around them.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-05-2001 11:04 PM
A future Russian leader starts a conversation answered by the American leader in the future:Dah!Duh!Dah, Dah, Dah, dah, dah, Dah!Duh! Duh!, Duh!, duh, duh, duh, duh, Duh!Dah! Dah!Duh, duh, duh, duh duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duhDah! dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah,dah dahDuh! duh, duh, duh,duh,duh,duh,duh Duh!Dah!Duh!
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-06-2001 03:43 AM
Well, I been reading more, now I’ll lose some sleep.
It seems that the Civil War part, is what I question.
If I went by what you say John, then, if I’m not too tired, then it would be the Police that start acting weird?
Well, a lot of people seem to be bent towards hate these days. Want to hand out orders, be in control.
But still I just find that the Police are trying to do their job.
Now the lastest is thermal imaging of houses where drugs may be grown. Is that a real loss of a freedom, or should they have the right to (spy) on people with high-tech devices?
A laser that shines on a window can record the conversation going on in the house.
Since I mainly listen to talk radio, this is where I get my info, from a talk-show host that seems to have a nack for finding out things going on in this time.
I guess this is the question that we now have to answer, high-tech equipment helping out law-enforcement?
I still think if people are not doing anything wrong, then these problems can be solved peacefully, not at the expense of human-life?
Others may conclude that it means a loss of rights.
Many people would not like to admit their madness in this day and age. I find that usually fighting for things that may not change to be the biggest problem with people, they want to instantly fight over all things.
It’s this pettyness that drives people now. Road rage, not allowing for other people to think, others not being concerned with what they are doing, causing problems, but a deep un-relaxed feeling that everyone is against them.
Are we blooming flowers or dying wilting flowers?A lot of people scare themselves into thinking doom.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-06-2001 07:36 AM
Pamela,You out of all people, should know that I speak hypothetically. Or if anyone claims to be something, I make it sound if he were, what would he do if he were. Haven’t you noticed? Everytime I question him, it’s to make it seem that if he were a Time Traveler, why is he messing up so much? I don’t believe he is though, you took what I said and attacked me without knowing all the facts. And you know me better then these people, so that makes it even more difficult to understand why you would be so much against me.He didn’t get mad at you when you brought forward his mistakes, but when I bring out his mistakes he gets mad at me, and you support him everytime. That’s just not fair.How many times must I tell you that it’s the principal that drives me. If he is, or isn’t a Time Traveler, he claims he is. I don’t believe him though. You do though, and so do alot of other people here.Excuse me for being on the opposite side of things, but it needs to be known.Have a nice day,Javier C.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-06-2001 08:43 AM
Javier,I am trying to make you aware of something. I am trying to point something out to you.“you took what I said and attacked me without knowing all the facts.”I have only done with your words what you have done with John’s. If you consider this an attack…you might want to consider what you are doing to John.“I don’t believe him though. You do though, and so do alot of other people here.”you are assuming this but have no idea what people believe on this forum unless they have stated it openly. even then….people can change their minds.You, yourself have no proof whatsoever that John is or isnt a time traveler. people have the right to beleive or not believe whatever they want to. Most people just want to hear what John has to say. let them make up their own minds.I am not against you, Javier. I am just trying to make you aware of some things. what you are doing to others, you do not like yourself. And talking about not being fair…I don’t think you are being very fair to John.sincerely,pamela
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-06-2001 09:44 AM
Pamela,Well talk about streching the truth. John was direct in claims of being a Time Traveler, everyone knew I was intentive in exposing him. If that method is to give the example of “What if you were a Time Traveler” “what would you do if” and so on, does not mean I believe he is, if it gave you and him the impression that I believed him. I think that’s where you misunderstood me and all this started.I can do very well without bringing up what you said, I know what you mean. People can make up their own minds. But you must let them choose. Not just let them have 1 side of a subject to choose.Me being quiet, will just leave 1 side. Your side. And that is what I have been trying to make you be aware of for almost a year now.Moreover, did you think I cared what John has said to you about me. NO! Have I ever asked you, NO! What makes you think I care?Just because I said it wasn’t fair, does not mean I want others to feel sorry for me because you think you turned it around on me. I just said that to point out how hypocritical some people can be.-J.C.
Posted by James N. Dickey on 03-06-2001 11:17 AM
WinkLet’s just say for now Ok. I take it the big corporate giants are still around(GE, GM, GF and the like) is the World of 2036 still Money Driven or has that changed.
Does it still Squelch the little Guy with a better Mouse Trap(Free Energie) or more Produtive means of producing Power(Like H2O2 Receprecating Rocket Engine) or the Burk 2-Stroke which was demonstrated in the 60’s and was able to run an 18-whlr with only 60cc engine size.
Did the Perpetual Thermal Steam Disk ever take off in mass Use. or did it preaty much stay the same as it has been(Exploite the Non Renuable Resorcess) and their By Products. Just a few Thaughts for Now. James
Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-06-2001 11:37 AM
CoolJohn and all, I have been reading with fascination this thread for a few weeks now. Are you a Time Traveler, John? I do not know. You make an interesting and compelling case, regardless of whether I or anyone else believes that you are.The whole concept of time travel — with its myriad possibilities due to an action occurring in one brief moment — is mind-boggling. To imagine for a moment that a single event sets off unforeseen consequences, and knowing that this happens in infinite numbers at all times, can be quite humbling.Take, if you will, a chain of events which happened to me within the past day. While proceeding to get my two year old a cup of milk last evening, I somehow managed to lose the cap off of the milk carton. My wife then poured the milk into a pitcher and placed it back inside the refrigerator. This morning my two year old went to help himself to another cup of milk, and you guessed it, he dropped the pitcher spilling the contents all over our kitchen floor. This made me 10 minutes later beginning my commute to work, and possibly saved my life as I was not involved in a car accident that occurred where I normally would have been had I left at my normal time.I only mention the above because it seems that even the fact of my encountering this thread on this website seems to all be interconnected somehow.This brings me to another point. I have been very moved by some of John’s accounts, as well as others, in relation to the projected upcoming strife and war. I said I have a two year old boy, which means he is the approximate same age as John. If these prognostications are true, then I certainly do not like what is foreboded for my children.I, personally, am not surprised at this picture because I have foretold this scenario myself, not by implementing any time traveling means, but through observation and analysis. A person only needs to look at the recent presidential election to see that a war is a distinct possiblitiy involving rural America versus the cities. Look at how the electoral college played out. Al Gore carried the heavily populated east and west coasts, with the rural areas between basically favoring George W. Bush.
The mainstream media tried to portray this as proving how close to the “center” the electorate is.
[My have times changed! Eh? - Metallicman]
I, however, hold an opposing viewpoint in that I believe it shows just how polarized we have become. The rural areas want more of a traditional America with traditional family values. I predicted an imminent violent uprising even before the election, and I still hold to this belief. I hope I am wrong.Do I own a gun? No, but I certainly support the Second Amendment and a person’s right to do so.Take care all of you, and God bless America!
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-06-2001 12:30 PM
All very interesting David up previous.
I really do not see rural America really interested in starting an uprising. What is bothering people to me, is constant lay-offs and the changing of life in the Information Age. Some refuse to need this new kind of thinking, ushered in by people using computer more.
This grand thing called the computer to make life easier has also had its drawbacks.
I wish that America would look into a Think Tank type of operation for thinking about issues and quality first, but then I guess that would not be America anymore.
People I guess, feel that they are shoved around, but that is nothing different than previous management from the past. The social problems are a relatively few individuals, whom other people hear more about on the news.
I suggest everyone listen to talk-radio more, only a few shows on TV are worth watching.
As one person put it, greed is driving America, and some feel at the loss of interaction between people. People have their opinions, but like arse-holes, everyone got one, and for the most part, opinions are just a form of belief system held by the individual. People see panic where there may be none.
I put it this way, upper management looks at America and the way individuals are acting and says “I put the operation overseas”, well, at least to me.
Its all concerned with how much of the moola people can have. That may not lead to anything. Combined with taxes and people talk about change.
The best way is still the old way, write your Congress People and keep at it. Most people complain but that is ordinary too.
Life could be a lot harder, we have become slack for saying lack of money to spend on anything. People have no fear, if they do something wrong, they will not suffer the punishment that is needed to correct the situation.
I got the opinion that baby-boomers were treated too good, for some of them, and afterall, I am a baby-bummer, like some of the rest.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-06-2001 02:40 PM
Not much was mentioned about the Middle East (Arab Countries). What happens there? Wiped mostly out like Europe? (WWIII)
Posted by Barbara Clements on 03-06-2001 09:12 PM
Craig;So it doesn’t matter that the Pied Piper is leading you off the cliff? Only that you have a smile on your face as you go down. Well then, all I have to say to you is have a nice trip.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-07-2001 12:04 AM
We live in this world. Not to misuse anyone or site or thing:Here’s a few, I use to have more, now who’s looking?England, and BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/Ireland and the Internet: http://www.nua.ie/ wrote the book about the upcoming digital age for the US. Government.Antarctica through Australia: http://www.antdiv.gov.au/Australia: http://www.newaus.com.au/Russia: http://allnews.ruItaly: http://www.publinet.it/Switzerland: http://www.pubblinet.it/The Constitution: http://www.constitution.org/
Congress but through another website:http://www.freerepublic.com/congress.htmNow China can also be reached, 16 million on Internet, HongKong, Japan.The world got small, so when we assume that America with Canada with Brazil are the only ones on the Internet,
I always wonder who looking at what on the Internet.Well, that my speech, that all you’ll hear. Who may care anyway?
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-07-2001 09:07 AM
Albert Cattoir: “All very interesting David up previous. I really do not see rural America really interested in starting an uprising. What is bothering people to me, is constant lay-offs and the changing of life in the Information Age. ”If you can’t see this (rural America, for one) then you are not looking. It is as plain as your image in the mirror.“People I guess, feel that they are shoved around, but that is nothing different than previous management from the past. The social problems are a relatively few individuals, whom other people hear more about on the news. ”People are being shoved around.
I have been having some serious family problems this past week. I won’t go into details, but, let us say that someone can make an accusation against another in todays society and the person being accused is arrested, held for up to 72 hours without seeing a judge (thereby missing work, school, perhaps getting fired or failing classes) all because someone made a FALSE ACCUSATION!
This actually happened so dont come back telling me it DOESN’T happen.
The social problems we see on the news are indeed the most news-worthy, at least in the sense of the media.
However, a LOT of people are having problems in society, from taxes to government intervention where there should be neither.People, in short, in America are FED UP with government intervention. They are fed up with people attacking their rights because of a few bad apples.Your suggestion of talk radio is right on the mark. Folks really should be listening to alternative news sources. They are accurate, truthful and most importantly, cover things and facts that the main-stream media does not cover.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-07-2001 09:47 AM
Rick,It’s refreshing to hear someone besides me taking a passionate stand on something. Keep it up buddy .
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-07-2001 09:48 AM
Yes, that has happened to me also.Sense of humor?Well, would you look at that? What is that suppose to be?An ET. No, just a crazy human running around with his arms wavering over his head. Oh!
Posted by Dan Richardson on 03-07-2001 10:03 AM
Before I pose my questions to John, I would like to take this opportunity to point out to all participants in this thread that regardless of whether one believes in the validity of John’s claims, it is wonderful to see people engaging in a discussion that pushes participants to present their opinions and questions based on ones individual experiences, philosophies, and knowledge.
What worries me most about our future is that we, as a civilization, seem to be more interested in being spoon-fed our opinions on any given issue because it is much easier to take another’s word for it, rather than ask questions and come to our own conclussion.
I apologize if I am rambling on, but I felt it necessary to point out that if we don’t ask ourselves and each other the hard questions and participate in discussions, we will always have to take someone else’s word it.Now, my question for John:
How does time travel affect our future(no pun intended) exploration of the universe?
It seems that the geatest obstacles in our way right now are a matter of energy (propulsion technology) and economic feasibility. It seems to me that time travel technology could neatly takes care of both.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-07-2001 10:31 AM
Hope things work out, Rick.Maybe its a rememberance as a child, but the closet I ever came to having a distinct feeling of helplessness, and maybe hopelessness, was during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Now, Pres. Kennedy was not going to allow Russia to move missiles into Cuba, at any time by any means. When broadcast on TV, his speech was so that many may have thought that the end of the World just might occur.Back then, no one even thought of the possibility of what a War meant, just that it may happen.
Hopefully everything works out, and the future does not have this really occuring.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-07-2001 11:18 AM
I still like the topic time travel, well at least in this minute.Last dreadful reply.
1) It occurs sooner now, it occurs later, it does not occur at all. I am telling you the future.
2) Missiles come in from some other country. Hit cities.
How many cities hit around Washington D.C.?
Does the President or anyone in Congress, or any leader escape in Air Force One? Only 12 or so minutes before dead. Out to Andrews Air Force base, very fast in helicopter, 5 minutes, ususally takes 10 minutes. Jet lifts off, climbs up, oops, caught in blast. All leaders dead. No, maybe a Senator is alive. Goood! Go fine Senator, leader at moment. Why?
What are the nuclear silo people doing?
Will the country launch another attack?
Are their nuclear silo people still alive?
Both are, stay down there for months. No contact with any civilization. Who got authority to tell them not to launch another attack?
I do not know. Waving arms at all nuclear silo bunkers, with radiation suit on. Please do not launch another attack. Humans stll exist. I do not know if through their camera, they can even see me. Who got authority?
Did that person communicate with these trained personnel? How?
All communication may be down. How do we contact these trained personnel with orders that may include, “Launch all missiles if no sign of life after a certain period of time?
My scenario, all life ends, some life may exist?, it never happens.
Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-07-2001 11:44 AM
TalkingRick:I, too, wish and hope that things work out for you. I have also seen too many times when just the false accusation has ruined peoples’ lives.People in this country are tired of the Constitution being trampled upon by those in power, and it does seem to be that those in the predominantly rural areas of the country are the most upset about the continued erosion of personal freedom by an increasingly intrusive federal government.
John’s description of the future in the relative short term does appear highly plausible.John:My oldest son wanted me to ask if you have any siblings. I apologize in advance if you have already answered this previously, but I do not recall you mentioning anyone other than yourself and your parents in your prior messages.Also, are you still planning on broadcasting your departure via a broadcast over the Internet? That would be quite interesting.Is there still an NCAA basketball tournament in 2036, and if so, has it expanded from its current 64 team format?Please answer at your earliest convenience.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-07-2001 04:48 PM
John,Hello, again.I’ve been pondering you and the philosophy that you’ve printed here and it occurred to me:John Titor – anagram “I John Trot”Is this possible? In 18th Century pantomime Clown was also known as John Trot,Clodpole and Clodpate. This character often played opposite Harlequin and Columbine. In the Frederic Bastiat economic sophism “The Tax Collector” Clodpate played the tax collector who was extracting tax from vintner James Goodfellow. James asks of Clodpate how he will benefit from paying an extortionate tax:James: And what benefit do I derive from it today?Clodpate: The satisfaction of saying:How proud I am to be a FrenchmanWhen I behold the triumphal column!James: And the humiliation of leaving to my heirs an estate burdened with a rent that they will have to pay for all time to come. Still, one really must pay one’s debts, however foolishly the money may have been spent.Is it true? Is your nom de plum an anagram telling us that you are Clown poking fun at both the government and us?
Posted by John Titor on 03-07-2001 06:24 PM
((Is this possible? In 18th Century pantomime Clown was also known as John Trot,Clodpole and Clodpate. This character often played opposite Harlequin and Columbine. In the Frederic Bastiat economic sophism “The Tax Collector” Clodpate played the tax collector who was extracting tax from vintner James Goodfellow. James asks of Clodpate how he will benefit from paying an extortionate tax))Unfortunately, I’m not that well read. But it does look like an interesting story and I will be sure to pick it up if it sparks a connection between it and me. Madam I’m Adam…that’s the only one I know.
Questions coming…
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-07-2001 07:12 PM
((Unfortunately, I’m not that well read.))Nah fa real? Your to modest .
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-07-2001 10:14 PM
John,I know…it was stretch. But your political humor would be appreciated by Clodpate in any case.And: dios mio, Javier. Calmete. Whether John is real or not, he hasn’t asked me for any money, hasn’t tried to sell me anything and isn’t “pumping & dumping” penny stocks. I happen to like the John Trot anagram because John Trot is humorous as is John Titor.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-07-2001 10:36 PM
Hey Darby, tu habals Español too? I’m more of Spanglish then Spanish and English. But I can still roll my “R’s” as good as the best of them. I’m a real motoRrrrrrrr .-J.C.P.S. I know John is humorous, that’s why I gave a little smile at the end.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-07-2001 11:04 PM
WinkJavier,Thanks for confirming that you too can see the humor in this thread. For me its a bit like coming home to my favorite TV program. We post one evening, go to bed and then when I get home from work the next day I can’t wait to see the next chapter in the story.Oh, yeah. I do speak Spanish…I even pick up my bi-lingual allowance every payday. Growing up in Santa Barbara County it was a must…my friends spoke Spanish at home. Little did I know “way back when” how much money I’d make because I took those classes just because I enjoyed them. (Sorry Mary & Keith – I know…OT)
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-08-2001 12:37 AM
John,This evening I was involved in following up on your reference material from your postings on another site. And guess what? As I was following the Frank Tipler/Tipler sinusoid material I landed on the “Ultimate Bulletin Board” Time Travel thread.There were the Big Three from this thread: You as TimeTravel_0, Pamela, Javier and one other fellow on page 11…Trott.I believe that I nailed the anagram. And I swear, I didn’t peak at the Ultimate Bulletin Board first. I nailed Trot last night and found Trott tonight.
Posted by Barbara Clements on 03-08-2001 03:39 AM
Tried to find this Ultimate Bulletin Board, but am not allowed in, because one must be a member. Can you list the site? Am I at the right site address?
Posted by John Titor on 03-08-2001 07:32 AM
((There were the Big Three from this thread: You as TimeTravel_0, Pamela, Javier and one other fellow on page 11…Trott. ))
((I believe that I nailed the anagram. And I swear, I didn’t peak at the Ultimate Bulletin Board first. I nailed Trot last night and found Trott tonight.))I find this interesting because it gives me a very tempting easy out. I could now rest assured that someone had “figured me out” and I can relax before I leave.
However, I am not Trott and this name and TTO are the only names I’ve used online. After looking at my name here, have you considered its origin from another word-play standpoint? For example, TITOR could equal TIme-Travel-OR.
After looking at your name Mr. Darby, I can pull out “MEET ME TAR BABY” which I’m assuming is a reference to the Song of the South. In that case, are you telling us in a secret way that you are trying to distract us by fooling us in the bre’r patch?
I would not insult your collective intelligence by leaving a hook out there for you to discover while I was making sport of you. Whether I’m a time traveler or not, I think we’ve spoken about many important things I would not want to diminish.
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 03-08-2001 08:22 AM
One of John’s messages is one of impending Civil War (or some kind of war)If you haven’t noticed, this generation is Ready to RumbleDELTONA — A fifth-grade boy on Tuesday threatened to bring a gun to Sunrise Elementary School, one day after a school shooting in Southern California left two people dead and 13 others injured.… With the nation on edge over a deadly school shooting in San Diego, more incidents of school violence were reported Wednesday, but no one was killed. In Pennsylvania, police commended a teen-ager who, after a classmate was shot inside their crowded cafeteria, persuaded the alleged shooter to drop her gun.…In the jittery two days after the deadly shootings at Santana High School, at least 11 California students were arrested and several more suspended for reportedly making threats against classmates or bringing real or fake weapons to schools.…Authorities in Washington state arrested a student Wednesday for allegedly bringing a gun to Kentwood High School in suburban Seattle.…Three junior high school students in San Bernardino County were arrested Tuesday for threatening to place a bomb on a teacher’s desk
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-08-2001 08:26 AM
Hey John,I don’t know about you being well read, but I do know your well taught in matters of not wanting to apper manipulative to your fans .
Posted by Randy Empey on 03-08-2001 11:05 AM
Javier —Me, earlier:quote:Actually, I have a question (which is along very simmular lines as what I think John is getting at) that I want to see you answer: Can you prove or disprove anything? And if your answer to that is ‘Yes.’ then I’d also like to have you prove it.Javier, earlier:quote:Randy,Prove what? All I did was point out John’s discrepancies. I think it’s proof enough, if you can see what he’s said in past post, and what he says now. It doesn’t match up.First things first: Prove what? Well, that you can prove anything, for starters.Discrepancies in written material isn’t proof enough of anything.It certainly is important information, and thanks for pointing out what you have.But please stop pretending it is proof of anything.There still is room for AT LEAST a reasonable doubt, both ways, here . . . and the generally accepted norm is to assume an individual not-guilty of a crime until they can be prooven guilty without a reasonable doubt.Timetravel ain’t a crime, I’m fairly certain.But lying certainly seems like one.So lets assume John not-guilty of lying about being a time-traveler until you can prove to us that he isn’t without a reasonable doubt.You still won’t be able to prove it absolutely though, so don’t pretend you can.And, just so you know, I don’t think the above is a proof, but I do think it elliminates many reasonable doubts about my argument.Lets let John and my fellow ‘lemmings’ talk philosophy, physics and about the human condition, and cut down a bit on the evil-timetraveler rhetoric, OK?
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-08-2001 01:47 PM
Let’s see, John, you are a time-traveler or not.Your story is true or not.Interesting anyway, hoped you used some of the links.Thanks.
Posted by Jay Richards on 03-08-2001 02:20 PM
John, I want to be sure to get this Q out before you might stop posting here. I’ve read a number of posts, but I’ll go back and read the entire thread afterwards, so sorry if this has been adequatly covered already.From your perspective of posting as a time traveller from 2036, please tell if any significant theistic events occur between now and then and if so, please describe.(That question does not directly pertain to religion)
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-08-2001 03:10 PM
<<However, I am not Trott and this name and TTO are the only names I’ve used online. After looking at my name here, have you considered its origin from another word-play standpoint? For example, TITOR could equal TIme-Travel-OR.After looking at your name Mr. Darby, I can pull out “MEET ME TAR BABY” which I’m assuming is a reference to the Song of the South. In that case, are you telling us in a secret way that you are trying to distract us by fooling us in the bre’r patch? >>Actually, John, I did consider Time-Travel-OR based on the moniker TimeTravel_O elsewhere. I didn’t consider that as a possibility as it begs the question, “Time Travel-OR what?”It’s never been my motivation to attack your veracity. Whether you are an actual time traveler or not doesn’t concern me. I did consider that you might have opted to create your own foil in Trott (or even Javier) to create a sophistic dialogue through which your message is delivered. You and Trott – Phaedo and Echerates of Phlius: instead of discussing the four arguments of immortality while lamenting the suicide of Socrates, you discuss the possibility of time travel and the society of our not too distant future. I still find you to be humorous and thought inspiring.Oh, the anagram of my name: Emmett is my first name and “Darby” is a nickname taken from my last name, Darbyshire. I hope that my Gaelic ancestors didn’t play a joke on me by giving me that last name and having my parents give me that first name.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-08-2001 07:34 PM
Randy,So am I to assume that there is no way of truly answering your prove it question? Especially here in a forum, where anyone can fabricate anything and try to pass if off as the genuine truth.So I guess however you put it, we can’t prove anything here. And in the end, we’ll still be asking the questions, “Was John telling the truth” “Was he a real Time Traveler”?I personally don’t believe him, but you and others may think other wise. I only trust what I can feel inside my guts. They have never steered me wrong before. I got a Spidey Sense .Can’t prove that either, but I’m not here to convince you of anything. I just call’em how I see’em, that’s all.
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 03-08-2001 09:28 PM
John – Could you give us your reaction to the following. It is from another folder on these school shootings. And BTW, what are your thoughts on what’s happened this week throughout the country. We had a kid run over four college students in Sta. Cruz and a rash of weapons related inceidents in High Schools throughout the country.Here’s an excerpt. I hope Mr. Hamner does not mind“I was talking to a dear friend of mine last night. He seemed very upset so I asked what was up and if I could help.He related that his 14 year old son was now in the custody of the police. I asked what had happened. He then told that his son and some other boys had just gotten into paintball. On the school bus they’d talk about the games they were playing. The bus driver understood that it was only paintball.
Anyway, the bus driver told the boys that “they were just plain evil” at that my friends son told the bus driver “no, if I was evil I’d shoot you” (not smart in todays enviroment), this happen monday afternoon. On Tuesday night the sheriff’s department showed up and arrested his son, took him to the juvenile detetion center. As of last night my friend had been unable to talk to his child. He has met with the school officials, the principle was unaware of the incident.”
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-08-2001 10:50 PM
Craig,If you don’t mind me asking, what are you hoping to accomplish by having John answer this?
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-09-2001 12:19 AM
Craig,I’m with Javier on this one. Other than being just another guy on the street what difference does it make what John feels about the four incidents (count ’em, four) you referred to?There wasn’t a rash of incidents. There was one major incident at a school followed by editors running as lead stories anything that involved a kid and a weapon nationwide. No San Diego incident = no “rash” (the wire services wouldn’t pick up on the stories) And a small correction. Unless UC Santa Cruz ALSO had four students run over, it was UC Santa Barbara (actually in Isla Vista) where the students were run over – about two miles from my home and 250 miles from Santa Cruz.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-09-2001 01:18 AM
According to a talk-show host that looked all over the country and was talking about it on his show, there was a “rash” of incidents with school kids. Let’s see, Thursday.I think the kids think its “cool” to be able to talk to their other peers and tell them about what they do. Well, something has to be done about this. I would tell you what the talk-show host and others blame it on, but that would probably start a debate that never ended. Some parents were acting strange also.
Parents taking a base-ball bat to school to, I guess, be arrested. Strange people.
Try the relaxation response. It takes time to work, maybe a month, be when you feel deeper relaxed, you will know. Concentrate on your breathing and quiet your brain activity so you dwell on no one thought, let them pass just out without dwelling on life’s problems.
Negative thoughts you have to consciously do, it takes practice, say cancel, cancel to yourself should one come in. In a quiet place, and undisturbed for about 20 minutes.
Something else needs to be taught to kids in school.
What has all this to do with time travel?
This thread has a life of its own, traveling itself through time. It may end up in the year 2036, before its done.
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 03-09-2001 05:58 AM
Not to get too morbid, though its interesting to me, as the premise of John’s situation is that in 2012 the world is at war. Not hard to see why, with a whole generation of kids wondering if they’re next to see a friend go postal.There’s more to this topic, ten year olds become 20 year olds and carry the day etc. Its not a stretch to believe a civil war is imminent. That’s all
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-09-2001 06:53 AM
“There wasn’t a rash of incidents. There was one major incident at a school followed by editors running as lead stories anything that involved a kid and a weapon nationwide. No San Diego incident = no “rash” (the wire services wouldn’t pick up on the stories) And a small correction. Unless UC Santa Cruz ALSO had four students run over, it was UC Santa Barbara (actually in Isla Vista) where the students were run over – about two miles from my home and 250 miles from Santa Cruz.”Actually… there was a rash of incidents. I’m aware of seven different things that happened here in Colorado yesterday, alone. I’m certain there were dozens of other such incidents throughout the country yesterday.Here we had 2 bomb threats, 3 “civil disturbances” at other schools in other areas, and there was a kid here that placed a “fake bomb” in a school in Colorado Springs. There was reference to something else like a gun being found in another school somewhere, but I didn’t catch the location.So.. that was just MY state. How about other states?
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-09-2001 07:03 AM
I need to continue this thought here. First of all, we have in most of our school systems something called a “Zero Tolerance Policy”. This equates to a “Zero Common Sense Policy” based upon the busdriver incident alone. Anyone listing to the kids talk would understand the kid didnt make a threat, he made a statement.We have a society where political correctness (read: Thought Control) is the norm. Kids aren’t allowed to carry a pocket knife (I carried a HUNTING KNIFE on my belt when I was in grade school, in Kentucky… as I walked through the woods to school. No one ever said ANYTHING to be about it.)Anything that can be construed as a weapon is banned, even if it isn’t a weapon.The media has the attitude that banning this or that is newsworthy (i.e. guns, kids getting in to fights in school etc).So, what we really have (all of this above, plus all the other little things that nag at us every day) is a society waiting for something bigger to trigger something else.Now, I’m not saying that we’re waiting for that civil war, but I AM saying that we have placed ourselves in a very sensitive, precarious position by making everything so “hair-trigger” likely to put something else into motion.Time moves forward for us, and those nodal points of change can be anywhere in our future.
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-09-2001 07:11 AM
Judging by the endurance of this thread if Mr. Titor is a time traveler or not will be a moot point. When this topic is done he will be in his own time.
Posted by John Titor on 03-09-2001 07:52 AM
____________________________________________________________
I think the day when animals are born, raised on a farm, slaughtered within 15 to 50 miles of that farm, and sold in the area, is just about OVER. This outbreak is, in my opinion, the swan song for local farming. I can hear the very large lady warbling in the background…
If, the virus was released because of the bombing of Iraq in Feb., then there is ONE more Country that remains to be punished. The US. If the UK was an act of agraterrorism, then what hell awaits the US?
Of course, please keep in my, this is pure speculation…there is no hard data in to support this theory…YET.
____________________________________________________________
Greetings everyone. I do plan to get to the questions soon. I have been quite busy lately so I apologize for being a bit slow.
In my travels over your web, I came across this section of a speculative news article. I would urge you all to take a good hard look at this idea and consider the possibility that it is true. And…..no, I did not make this up nor am I trying to tell you something in a left-handed way.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-09-2001 08:36 AM
John,A comment from “the intel department”. I follow global intelligence extremely closely. Some of us in my security community believe that Mad Cow disease is not speculative terrorism, it is fact. No proof, but many, many talking points on the subject can show it. I’ll give you some examples.1) The west uses more beef/red meat products than ANY OTHER COUNTRY – in fact more than most other countries put together.
[Correction. The consumption of Beef was over taken by China around the early 1990's. This statement was false at the time it was made, and is certainly incorrect today. - Metallicman.]
A comparison of the consumption of meat by China and by the Untied States. Data compiled from 1960 to 2012. Granted the statement concerned beef, but the idea is the same.
2) Eco-terrorism, by some of the anti-meat eaters has been considered, but at the same time, it is not conducive to them to kill animals, because the majority of non-meat eaters in western culture believe “animals have rights” and would consider such a thing a type of genocide.3) Biological warfare is indeed the greatest threat to our society. It is cheap, easy to produce, easy to release, and most importantly… biological warfare is “Stealth Warfare”. Biological agents can be released as an aerosol, into water, into food.4) What better way to destroy a country than to screw up their food sources. By creating a messed up animal supply, you thrust the prices of meat skyward, quickly. You cause the production to drop, loss of wages, loss of profit, loss of food supplies. You put a strain on several other food sources to take up for the lost portion of production.5) A sudden and deadly resurgence of a disease that hasn’t really been a problem for decades is a very obvious attack. This is the very reason people believe things like AIDS is a biological agent that got loose on society. It appeared quickly in the 80s. It could not be traced, and what little tracing they showed, claimed it came from “monkeys” or apes or something (I don’t recall the specifics at this point). However, AIDS like other such diseases can not simply “begin to exist” without mutations or some other intervention. Mad Cow disease, as well as Hoof and Mouth disease (what we call it in America – they call it Foot and Mouth in the UK) has suddenly appeared with a vengence. The former is a relatively new disease. The latter is very old, but, was pretty much wiped out. Suddenly, it is back.So, we have two things specifically in the UK that are attacking hoofed creature. Both of which are either new or resurgences of old diseases. These diseases came about at roughly the same time, and spread rapidly.I believe (and I’ve not had a lot of time to research it, but then, I’m betting it will be very difficult right now to track it precisely) that this most recent outbreak occured in several places simultaneously. If so, it was definately a planned and probably well carried-out attack.America is NEXT. But, not only will it be something like Hoof and Mouth, Mad Cow something else will likely be introduced as well. Swine flu, something that attacks chickens and perhaps some kind of wheat blight. That would hit MAJOR portions of our food supplies, causing all the aforementioned problems, plus more.A major economic crash is likely. THis would weaken the US to a great extent opening us up for other types of attacks.Currently America is under attack by several former states of the Soviet Union, many arab states and terrorist organizations already. They are coming in through computers and networks, probing constantly, looking for weaknesses, testing our defenses and looking for the proper time and place to make a major attack.Things to watch:A) Increased internet attacks.B) A MAJOR attack on the internet.C) Sudden outbreak of any sort of weird animal diseases.D) Increased readiness of the military in the US.E) Increased movements of the military in the US.F) Increased public awareness of police force training, particularily in computer attacks, raids finding “illegal guns”.G) Attacks on “militia groups” again.When the latter occurs, be prepared for the Pro-Consitution forces to get loud, and “in-your-face” attitudes. They will not stand for more attacks on the Second Amendment.Anyway – those are from my point of view. Whether I am completely accurate or not, remains to be seen. However, I believe my data is accurate, and I am not usually wrong on the “big picture”.Rick
Posted by Bob Marz on 03-09-2001 08:53 AM
John, busy? You mean you have other things to do on your vacation besides talk to us?Darby mentioned a few posts ago that he thought possibly the Javier personna might be a “sophisticated dialogue” construct of our time-traveller for self dialogue. Eh? We need to examine your definition of “sophisticated.”[Edited by Bob Marz on 03-09-2001 at 09:06 AM]
Posted by John Titor on 03-09-2001 03:27 PM
((Darby mentioned a few posts ago that he thought possibly the Javier personna might be a “sophisticated dialogue” construct of our time-traveller for self dialogue. ))Had you considered the possibility that Javier is the one who made me up? But, as we both know Bob, I am YOUR alter ego.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-09-2001 08:37 PM
John,Do I sense some covert hostility in that last remark?Just keeping you honest, how you said I do .
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-09-2001 09:32 PM
SmileHave you considered the possibility that I made up both Javier and John?
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-09-2001 10:38 PM
Hahaha . Right Pamela. That’s really funny.And everyone is just a figment of my imagination after all just like I always suspected.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-09-2001 10:53 PM
The moral implications for the future are real enough. Ever since the US had to construct the atom bomb, moral questions of what we are doing now seem to last longer.
Take that we, as people, as humans, are getting into enough gray areas with human cloning, using human embryos, and such topics of the day, I think the moral questions will be around longer than they were in the past. Never before this time had we had to ask ourselves the morality of civilization. Nuclear weapons are still not really solved, we seem as humans to be digging a hole ourselves with these questions which can seem to imply that the probability of future events being grim becomes more real as we grapple with these questions.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-10-2001 11:51 AM
Albert,But you think Time Travel is Okay?Just want to make sure I’m understanding where you stand. Because there is so much hypocrisy in the world these days. Where some people claim they are against something bad, but not against something else that’s bad. Which when you look at it, there one in the same. See what I’m saying?Javier C.
Posted by Joe Applebaum on 03-10-2001 02:16 PM
Question for John:You say that you wear some kind of flight suit like coveralls when you are time traveling and that you experience 2 g’s for 6-8 hrs. How is it possible to withstand that kind of g-force for such a long period without the use of an anti-g suit? If not to keep you from blacking out, at least to make your time travel safer and more confortable? I know you must be physically trained for space travel, but you should also have the benefit of equipment to help you out.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-10-2001 04:27 PM
Javier,Being in a free country dictates that certain people will do certain experiments(?) without regard to who complain’s about it. The rest of us are left to decide other alternative actions to prevent these leaps of technology from interferring with humanity on (as) a whole.
I had little choice in the making of a atom bomb.
If the US did not do it, than it is probable that Hilter would have. With that, things in the future would be indeed different.
So, as with anything, we are (forced, as in War) to do a certain number of things.
In peace, we are still (forced) to see what other countries are up to.
The fear of America is that if we fall behind, then someone someway will take control of us.
In the case of the Middle East, I suppose that would be Saddam. In the case of a time traveler, I doubt he could achieve such a possibility unless he knew every “connection” to change the events of history. That part was described in that book by Jonathan Burke in the book “Connections”.
I make no commitment as to the morality of time travel.
Someone will do it, if it’s possible, someday. Otherwise, we have no freedom. We are left to change things in the future should enough people agree that time travel is a “bad” thing.
But then there might be “bad” people time traveling and “good” people time traveling in a kind of “time travel war”.
Posted by John Titor on 03-10-2001 07:26 PM
Dear Fellow Time Travelers:
In about 30 days, I will be leaving this worldline to return home to 2036. I first want to say thank you for the wonderful conversation and insight into your society. I have learned a great deal and my opinion on quite a few things has changed dramatically.
I will finish the questions that have been posted on this site up to this date. Unfortunately, I must now spend my spare time preparing to leave and I will not be on the computer very much. I do however want to repeat my offer and add a slight twist.
After going over my flight plan home, I have discovered my VGL holdover period is a bit longer than I expected. I will be spending at least three weeks in April of 1998 as I make my way back to 1975. Therefore, I not only offer you the chance to leave a message to yourself in 2036 but I offer you the chance to leave yourself a message in 1998. I will take any compiled messages and email addressees you provide and send them on the net when I get to 1998.
Granted, this will not affect you on your worldline now but you make take some comfort that another “you” on another worldline has the advantage of knowing something you wish you knew three years ago. Based on the earlier questions I’ve seen, I’ve decided a day-to-day record of the Dow a day in advance should convince you that the messages are real in 1998.
In addition, I am hopeful a series of photocopies and photographs will be available for you that may give you more insight into the technology of the distortion unit. I will let you know the address of the site when it is available. I also plan to have my parents videotape my departure. If they succeed, it will also be posted after I leave.
I look forward to these last few weeks with my family and I will check in periodically to check this site.
Live in Peace 2001,
John
Posted by Bob Marz on 03-10-2001 09:19 PM
Maybe Moe Howard is a “sophisticated dialogue” device for Steven Hawkings?Well, Johnny, you’ve been entertaining for the most part. Nevertheless, I find it rather depressing that time travel, the most exciting and profound accomplishment of man, is being put to such banal and frivolous use. The most wonderful invention possible in all of human history and they apparently can’t figure out what to do with it other than arrange for you to amuse us few idjits here on the Art Bell message board. Kinda makes ya proud. (thniff)[Not edited by the future Bob Marz on 03-10-2036 at 09:21 PM – message being sent back to 2001] [Edited by Bob Marz on 03-10-2001 at 09:27 PM]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-10-2001 11:35 PM
Good luck in whatever worldline you return to.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-11-2001 01:10 AM
Albert,Well I had a hard time getting through what all your rhetoric was about. And still didn’t see you actually answer my question. “Where do you stand?” Well that’s not important now, as I see that you believe John Titor, A.k.a. TT_0 is for real. So thank you for proving my point correctly.Hypocrisy I tell you.First you came off as inspirational, speaking with convictions about right and wrong. But in the end, you’re only as much a hypocrite as the rest of us are.I however do not tolerate immoralities on any level, and I live my life according to basic human law. Compassion and principal our my guiding truths. “We the people” should realize this, and not accept what is basically wrong. There have been to many compromises, too much acceptation. But the truth is clear, that despite all of what we are trying to accomplish, of becoming an advance civilization and people, we are failing in the worst possible way. And that is by following our principles.Just think about that…John,I see you finally made your big pre-farewell speech. Very nice, you almost made me feel sorry to see you go. Then I remembered what you are. An opportunist.Well wherever you go, just remember me! And know that wherever you stand, that somewhere someone with enough guts exists to change the entire face of Time Travel someday. Your days are numbered…30 more days huh John? You know that’s a very interesting number. Because I’m going to FL in 30 days also, coincidence huh?Let’s see in 1998, I was 18 years old. I graduated high school that year good year. Except for some personal problems. I wrote a story that year about my new experiences, I think you read it before Pamela. Remember “Displacement?”Catch-ya on the flip side,Javier C.[Edited by Javier Cortez on 03-11-2001 at 01:13 AM]
Posted by Stephen McKay on 03-11-2001 02:37 AM
John,These messages to oneself in 1998 sound very interesting.Is there somewhere I can e-mail it to rather than post it on the board?
Posted by Michelle Esposito on 03-11-2001 03:59 AM
John, I’d like to take you up on your offer for the 1998 message to myself. I assume your instructions will appear on this thread . . .
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-11-2001 04:15 AM
Geeeez Louise… See now that’s what I’m talking about, right there.Talk about being a lost soul.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-11-2001 06:10 AM
John has asked me if I wouldnt mind collecting the emails for him again and forwarding them to him.
anybody who wants to can write me using my email address found in my profile and I will forward your letters or “messages to 1998″ ,”messages to 2036” to John.
All messages I receive I will keep confidential and they will be forwarded right to John.sincerely,Pamela[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-11-2001 at 06:17 AM]
Posted by LaMar Prince on 03-11-2001 06:23 AM
Thumbs upI would like to E-Mail You. I would like to Leave message. Like the the Poster said I’m sure You will leave instructions?………Peace! L>P>
Posted by Randy Empey on 03-11-2001 07:08 AM
Javier —Didn’t you ever play ‘pretend’ as a child?Also, why do you feel that you have such a firm grasp on reality right now that you can say such things with such certainty?I find that, usually, those who shout ‘hypocrisy’ from the rooftops are trying to draw attention from thier own.Their are so many untruths and myths that bombard us daily, either through design or simply the uncertain nature of communication, that we ALL swallow hook-line-and-sinker that most the things you think you know are wrong.Since there is no firm basis to rate new experiences about, generalizing from past experiences can be a dangerous game of darts.Reserving judgement and thinking things through is warranted.Quite being so loud the rest of us “can’t” think.Everybody has an agenda. Everybody has shortcomings.BBSes are fantasy worlds by nature, and nothing you try can change that.Let the people who still remember how to pretend play thier games without too much trouble and you won’t get called names on the ‘playground’.Life’s all a big play anyway. (Probably a play within a play . . .)Let the guy play out his ‘final scene’ if he wants . . .. .. wait, maybe I’m infringing on your pretending .. .… if I am, my sincere apologies.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-11-2001 08:45 AM
John,So long and have a good trip home.As I’ve pondered your experience of being here it ocurred to me that I should cover my bases and at least try to make a living from the information that you’ve given us. So…I’m in the process of filing copyright protection in my name for the following terms:Temporal Displacement UnitVariable Gravity LockVGLVariable Gravity Lock Model C204VGL C204Model C204Variable Gravity Lock Model C206CGL C206Model C206Singularity Magnetic Field CoilElectron Mass Injection Manifold
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-11-2001 09:58 AM
Javier,First, I’ll keep the social demise in mind.
Second, I do not believe.
Third, I do not think TT will be solved in my lifetime, therefore I do not have to have any morals about it.That will be for some future person.
Fourth, from my viewpoint, it is just one of many possibilities that could occur in the future.
Fifth, if TTler is true, then wishing anything to him is just something that I wish upon myself also.
Sixth and most important. There have been problems associated with the theory presented that neither the TTler or I can resolve at this time, in my estimation, and I am usually right. So, for the other people, I leave them also with their thoughts.
I would discuss this in more detail about the problems associated but I really have got other things to do and these other things are really more important.
Seventh, to me it has been just an exercise in thought, and I think humankind have more immediate problems facing us now, that I see on other websites like the BBC in England and Talking Point or some of their news articles.
Eighth, that’s all I can do now. I can not solve the technical problems associated with building a time machine.
Ninth, I getting close to the end of my post.
Tenth, when all else fails, count to ten.
Posted by E. Robert Gonzalez on 03-11-2001 10:19 AM
Hopefully you can answer my past questions before you leave and send that message out.
It really has been enjoyable watching this thread and getting to know you John.
There is a part of me that wants to believe and another that says your not a time traveler. But right now I believe you, and you being here means one way or another time travel is real.
I only hope all my alternate selves are doing well.
I was thinking though, if all these alternate timelines are so similar… Then shouldn’t another “you” be doing the samething in another timeline, possibly in infinite time lines?
Because if that is so, then another “you” would go back to our timeline in 1998 per se and we’d actually get the messages that people are sending. Now, I’m not sure if that is possible or not.
But, in my understanding it seems likely with what you said about alternate universes.
[A common misconception is that people look at time-travel and dimensional travel in the terms of a physical reality. Instead they should look at it in terms of the consciousness as established by soul. That would clear up so many of the dead-ends and misconceptions that everyone seems to have. - Metallicman.]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-11-2001 10:31 AM
Javier,First, Good luck to you in your worldline.
Second, The things the TTler is talking about in the near future will not occur in your lifetime, to me.
[not if he died five years after writing this. Indeed many, many of the things that John Titor (sans the nuclear war) has occurred. - Metallicman.]Third, Have you visit this website, http://www.nist.gov/There you will find a picture of an atomic clock at present.
Fourth, Our Solar System is near the edge on an arm of the Milky Way Galaxy.
[No it is not. - Metallicman]
Fifth, There may be a Black Hole at the center of our Galaxy.
Sixth, I think humankind will have to worry if the Sun, Sol, burns up first in 5,000,000,000 years or the Solar System gets sucked into the Black Hole at the center of our Galaxy.
Seventh, Still its nice to dream, or have a fantasy wish.
Eighth, I must really really go now.
Ninth, I will just say that social problems have been around forever on this Planet, and it is still traveling in space along with the Milky Way Galaxy, at what I think is, at about 33 miles/second. No need to be space-sick.
Tenth, Ever since I became, I been traveling through space and time. Just trying to have a little fun in the great demise of things, all past, all present, all future, all, all.Best wishes to everyone on this forum and the world and “Just say No”.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-11-2001 10:49 AM
While, I probably get in trouble: specific links:http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/stations/wwv.htmlGood luck All![Edited by Mary Rowland on 03-11-2001 at 10:55 AM]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-11-2001 10:51 AM
Oops, the other link, while I’m getting in trouble.http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/stations/tour.html
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-11-2001 12:41 PM
John –In 2036 I will be in the mountains in Colorado. Somewhere west of where Colorado Springs used to be. Not sure if I will have access to the internet at that point, but I WILL have access to radio equipment. Somewhere around January 1-10th, 2036 I will be broadcasting on 28390 Khz, USB. I will look for you there on that frequency in the middle of the day.I will 77 years old – and will turn 78 that year.I expect to hear from you then.RickPS – I AM one of the “farmer generals” John mentioned. Perhaps not the most famous… but, I will be there.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-11-2001 12:42 PM
Randy,Obviously you must not have been listening to what I been saying from the start.And people blamed me for speaking for everyone.((Quite being so loud the rest of us “can’t” think.))Is it perhaps because I make you think of what your doing, thus spoiling what you what you want to believe him as real?Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-11-2001 12:46 PMAck!I forgot to mention that I’ve also listed “John Titor” on the copyright application – just in case I want to write a book using that name as a character.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-11-2001 12:58 PM
After spending the last few days working on family business and keeping my mind busy thinking about time traveling, from John’s point of view, I have come to a sudden and surprising conclusion.John is perhaps what he says he is… however, I don’t think he is a “TIME TRAVELER” – I think he is a world-line, or for lack of a better word, a dimension traveler.I say this based on a couple of assumptions. His machine uses gravity calculations/measurements to maintain his “physical position”.But, he claims there is up to a 2.5 % divergence from his reality.That means to me that:1) He is NOT on his ‘reality” but on ours.2) He will be going back to his reality – or at least pretty close to it.3) Our reality is not precisely his reality.4) There are multiple worlds, multiple time lines if you will and he is no longer on his orginal one.5) Anything he does here on our time line will NOT EFFECT OUR TIME LINE EXCEPT locally (time related). That is, if he were to kill someone’s grandparents here, they would NOT cease to exist on HIS time line. They would here though. If he goes back to 1975 and does this, OUR grandparents will be JUST FINE. It is the ones on the time line where he stopped.6) John’s machine uses tipler cylinders – somehow. I believe it would be very possible to create a tipler cylinder using singularities. A physcist I know confirmed my suspicions on Friday-last. He stated that such a machine could be built now. He said that it would take some strong scientific work on the part of linear accelerator scientists though, and so far as he knew, it hasn’t been accomplished YET, but will be in the very near future.7) If microsingularities are made, they can be held in ‘statis’ or in a magnetic field in a vacuum. According to my physcist that is. If so, it would be possible to effect them with magnetic fields in such a manner as to allow them to interact with each other (on that micro scale).8) If so – then it might be very possible to speed up, slow down or even STOP time altogether. In fact, he believes it possible to reverse time altogether.9) The effects of using such a machine would be that “high gravitational fields would be present around the machine”. However, at this point, neither myself, him nor other folks we talked to could come up with a way to measure gravity fields with any reliable method. (Scales, things like that work, but… that is rather crude I think).10) Anything within the field of a tipler cylinder would be carried along with the device… the method of “travel” would or could be based on voltages applied to the magentic fields in some manner as to cause a change in the rotation of the field.11) John’s machine will not take him back in time. It takes him to a diffent time LINE, in a different world, on a different plane of existence.Anyway, that’s my 2-cents worth. Perhaps I’m wrong. Perhaps I’m right. No matter if John is a real TT or not is moot at this point.John… take this message back in time to 1998 and … how do you propose to see that we get these messages anyway????I will post it on my web site, which is already up in 1998.Rick
Posted by Jim Houlahan on 03-11-2001 01:51 PM
Albert,Although laboratory standard atomic clocks are huge, commercial standard atomic clocks are the size of a suitcase today. Given 35 years of future development, I can imagine four of them fitting into John’s device. Here’s a picture of the “suitcase atomic clock”…http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/cesium.html
Posted by Randy Empey on 03-11-2001 02:15 PM
Javier —Since I seldom sub-vocalize as I read, I don’t think it matters whether I was listening or not . .. . I have been reading and trying my darndest to understand… from the start.As to this question:quote:Is it perhaps because I make you think of what your doing, thus spoiling what you what you want to believe him as real?My answer is simply, “Of course not.”But you can pretend so if you wish. Pplease understand that delusion is often a team sport. Or is it that non-delusion is often a team sport?Actually, I just have to wonder why you feel you have such a firm grasp on this reality that you feel confident in many of the things you have asserted.But I guess I don’t expect an answer, since I am merely a figment of someone else’s imagination.Either play by ALL the rules or throw them ALL out — no middle of the road please, I am already confused.John —Seems your journey will be forking from some of ours — watch out and don’t forget to smell the roses.That said, lets disregared the sentimental stuff and keep up the philosophizing. How about a few more monologues from the main character here? The stage has been set, and your ques have been uttered.(Javier — if it sounds like I speak for more than just myself, please just chalk it up to schizophrenia or simmular talents.)[Edited by Randy Empey on 03-11-2001 at 02:21 PM]
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-11-2001 03:35 PM
You know what Randy?I’d expect that kind of a responds from a John Titor supporter.The only difference between you and me is, is that when I make a statement like that, but of speaking about morals and principles? I get an angry rowdy crowd who believes I’m waking them up from their fantasy. Hence the attacks.And the difference is Randy, is that there are more of you then they are of me out there in this world. So no one will ever complain to you about being hostile, or not being open-minded. Your perfect, you fit right in the norm of things in society. You’re perhaps the majority of people who voted for Bill Clinton the second time around. The kinds of people that support same sex marriages. You’re also the kind of people that are waiting in line to get genetically engineered, or to clone your self. Or to just try every “New Fad” that comes into the market.How low can this countries morals get? I’d hate to find out.So yes I do have a firm grasp on reality. I’m not blind, I can see very clearly. And I know what needs to be fixed. Do you?-Javier C.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-11-2001 04:42 PM
Thanks, Jim, I saw that page.John, if you come back from the past or from the future,can you call yourself “Power Time Traveler Ranger” in the “Way-back Laid-back Time Machine”.By the way, is there a way that a yellow school bus can be included in the time field as a way of travel?That might scare anybody from the past or the future.Just a thought.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-11-2001 05:04 PM
WinkJavier,For your sake, lets hope when you get discussed in the future, all of John’s time travel buddies in his unit are as nice as he is…………. hehe[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-11-2001 at 05:06 PM]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-11-2001 05:09 PM
Craig,Can you tell them to speed up the development of that device by the year 2014, and bring it down in price so that I can buy one?I am not joking.Just a thought.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-11-2001 05:20 PM
Pamela,What’s that suppose to mean? Sounded like a threat to me. Care to clearify?
Posted by Bob Marz on 03-11-2001 05:40 PM
Seems pretty clear to me.“Darby”: Good stuff!
Posted by Anthony Reed on 03-11-2001 05:56 PM
That seems clear to me too. I’m just sorry I’m late to this board. And why would you be worried anyway Javier? I thought you did not believe him anyway.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-11-2001 06:10 PM
Well Anthony,Like you just said, your late to this board. Of course some details will be unknown to you. But rest assured, if you read back I answer that question.
Posted by Donnie Smith on 03-11-2001 08:44 PM
WinkRick, you are absolutely right. And, what John Titor has said reflects exactly that.
John is from the end result of a reality shifting movement that is being given birth to now.
They have recognized that time does not exist in the fashion that many believe in today, only infinite parallel realities in the same or different stages of history or alternative history. The term time travel is, however, the closest thing that humans of this period can relate to.[Emphasis by Metallicman. This is actually spot on and very poignant. - Metallicman.]
In the future, it has been adjusted to refer to the illusion of traveling to the past or future. Those realities are mere reflections of where we have been and where we are going, but are by no means the real mc coy!
Carry on John Titor, Peace from the Eye of Harmony of the Matrix of this Reality. Have a safe trip.
Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-12-2001 08:41 AM
WinkJohn:Good luck to you. I do hope you make a visual record of your departure. Thank you for the interesting thread. And did you ever answer whether or not you have any siblings?I have not decided whether or not you are a Time Traveler, but I do believe the near future you have described is a real possibility, if not even a probability. Let’s all be prepared and pray for the best.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-12-2001 12:55 PM
David,Earlier in posts, if I understand it right, he said he was single. Many stillborn in the future because of the War according to him.He will probably check back.Just thought that I include that.
Posted by Ron Polesky on 03-12-2001 01:31 PM
Wow! I have just spent the better part of an entire day reading EVERY message within this thread and I must complement everyone on a fine job!
This has been some of the most entertaining and thought provocative writing that I have read in a long time. Great job everyone! I extend my sincerest thanks, a hearty cheer and (as a first time poster) a warm hello.To John Titor I reserve a special thanks for starting this thread!
Your consistency in conjunction with an entertaining narrative complete with motive, ethics, physics, and general openness is amazing and enlightening to say the least. However, above all of that, your calm in facing some staunch and intelligent critics is an inspiration and something rarely found on message boards when one is met with the fire of emotion based in disbelief. If I take nothing else from this thread, your steady coolness under such adverse criticism will be fondly remembered and hopefully emulated.Now, onto the crux of this posting:Whether John is or is NOT a time traveler is moot, based upon my own personal beliefs and experience.
Simply put, the most powerful component of ANY interaction or activity involving humans is the human will. Because humans make hundreds or thousands of decisions everyday, most very minor and immediately forgettable, the possibilities of potential outcomes to ANY situation in which one is involved is subject to randomness (chaos?). Our own personal decisions are influenced by a multitude of factors such as mood, health, weather, stress, intelligence, finances, family, interactions with other people, past experience, future expectations, hopes, personal and societal myths…the list could be endless.And, of course, we are subjected not only to the outcomes of our OWN decisions but also to those of others.
For example, one poster noted that a simple and common occurrence with a child potentially helped him avoid a tragedy. If one accepts that my statements are true, then it requires no giant leap of faith to also agree that this randomness prevents anyone from EVER predicting a future event that involves the decisions of humans.Let us assume for the moment that John is indeed a traveler from 2036 and that all his statements are 100% fact. Within his own timeline, these major occurrences of a civil war and a nuclear holocaust have occurred and, based on a randomness factor of 2.5% one could speculate that the same could occur here. We do, after all, have the SAME people involved. However, 2.5% is a HUGE variable given the already incalculable odds that a small decision by a child, for instance, could change the whole scenario or outcome.History is rife with stories of decisions that seemed meaningless at the time averting or causing major disasters or occurrences.
We even have several words and terms to describe these things: luck, misfortune, angel on my shoulder, God watching over me, wrong place/wrong time, caught a break, etc.
In fact, one of our favorite pastimes as humans is “what if”.
Given these factors, it is little wonder that John will not give short-term “hard facts”…because he doesn’t really KNOW! And, I speculate he knows he doesn’t know. Just because Duke, for instance, won the NCAA tournament in 2001 in his timeline is no assurance the same will happen here (if they and their opponent score 150 points total in the championship game, nearly 4 points or 2.5% are going SOMEWHERE..add decision making under stress and there is simply no WAY that an outcome could be predicted with certainty).Regardless, whether OUR future is the future that John “remembers” or not, the randomness of human will and the factors impacting it will insure a different outcome, for better or worse, in this timeline.
Different decisions cause different actions which nearly always render different results.
Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-12-2001 02:30 PM
Ron Polesky:Very good post. I wish you had been able to be here all the time. You have drawn some conclusions that are thought provoking regarding John’s or anyone’s ability to predict the future.I, for one, take what many many find to be a simplistic view of time travel theory, and that is that should time travel become available, there is nothing any time traveler can do to change or alter anyone’s timeline because it already has happened. I guess I would add that if my theory is true, Javier, then you have nothing in which to worry regarding John or any other Time Traveler.Just my two cents worth….
Posted by Randy Empey on 03-12-2001 02:46 PM
ExclamationJavier —There is a difference between a John Titor supporter and a person who believes John Titor is a time-traveller.I support John Titor in his effort to have a discussion in this thread.I’ve reserved judgement about his veracity because there is simply no way of knowing, and very little to be gained by guessing, even if I guess right.Frankly, I don’t think it matters whether he is hoaxing us or not.It is the interaction and exchange that occurs here that matters.Why is it that the moment I question the nature of reality and ask you to do the same, I become a nazi-lovin’ liberal-satanist wannabee in your eyes?Javier, I am unique, friend. There are only one ‘of me out there in this world’. As such, I can’t out number you.People will complain about anything and everything, as you now are proving.I am not perfect, nor do I pretend to be.Norms do not exist.I never voted for Bill Clinton — your wrong on that one too.Same sex marriages are just plain sick and wrong, IMO.I don’t see how you can know how I stand on genetic engineering and human cloning when haven’t even decided for certain — you really are amazing.Next time you chose to share a diatribe with us, please don’t engage in character assassination as you do so. It makes it hard to see that much of what you say agrees with the way I see things.If you really are against John Titor and rational discussion in this thread, calling names is the best way to declare your alignment.Once again Javier, I must ask you (and I direct this at everybody else too): Why are you so certain that you do have a firm grasp on reality? Are you sure you see and understand all things very clearly? How do you know what you know?Indeed, do I know what needs to be fixed?At times I feel I do, and I often act upon my beleifs and impulses in an attempt to ‘fix’ the world . . . but, at other times, I wonder whether its me or the world that needs fixing . . .Proving things is impossible in this realm.But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try.It means the reward is in the trying.The idea is to keep learning (ad infinitum) until you finally do know everthing. And not to stop when convenient and declare that the end has been reached..Lets talk about the possibilities, since there are no certainties.Excuse this outburst, it just felt right at the time.Its not over till the fatlady sings John.— Randy E.
Posted by Kevin Spooner on 03-13-2001 04:10 AM
Red faceThere have been almost 19,000 views of these posts since its inception and that alone gives credit to the number of people who are interested in this topic.Given the extreme interest (and it is extreme) and the number of people who no doubt repeatedly visit here (as I do) even if not to always post, but to READ… that is incredible.John has stated he is ‘leaving’ in about 30 days. Someone else is critical of that. If John said he was going on a two month Time travel excursion for a particular reason, someone else would be critical. If John said he’s making some kind of adjustment to his devices, someone would be critical. Hmm.Given that there is in my view no problem in relating information by John – given the odds that his timeline deviates from ours by around a possible 2.5%, it would seem fair to this threads viewers for John to provide a thorough discourse on what his timeline offers (afterall John, there’s no way you can be judged on that given your noted deviance.)It seems most of us are acting as if its the last goodbyes – but don’t forget he gave us 30 days (or given himself the same.) Can we not make use of that (whether he is or is not a TT is irrelevant.)Perhaps final concrete questions could be answered at this time? We’ll see. There’s nothing to loose is there?
Posted by John Titor on 03-13-2001 06:32 AM
I’m going to try and get to the remaining questions today. Pamela has been collecting the email and forwarding them to another address. In respect for your privacy, I am not reading them. I am only planning to forward them.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-13-2001 07:28 AM
Randy,((It is the interaction and exchange that occurs here that matters. ))Even if that interaction is generating a group of people following him, praising him, looking up to him as this perfect role-model? It could all just be a front, but they don’t care. They should however be made aware of this. Just look at how those people in “Heaven’s Gate” felt towards their founder? Mighty similar to what is happening here, and it makes me sick to see it.I am reminded of this quote. I don’t know who said it, just got it out of some book with quotes: “Use your eyes. Sometimes those who offer us eternal salvation surround themselves with dead plants.”How many people here wish they could go with John in to the future?How is that any different then those people who wanted to get on the Hale-Bop spaceship to Heaven?((Why is it that the moment I question the nature of reality and ask you to do the same, I become a nazi-lovin’ liberal-satanist wannabee in your eyes?))Because you and lots of people are 1 sided individuals, who can’t conceive the possibility that I can actually be right about John and Time Travel.((I am not perfect, nor do I pretend to be. ))I agree, I’m not either.((I never voted for Bill Clinton — your wrong on that one too. ))I said: “You’re perhaps the majority of people who voted for Bill Clinton the second time around” I didn’t say you did.((If you really are against John Titor and rational discussion in this thread, calling names is the best way to declare your alignment. ))Is there something wrong in what I am trying to accomplish here? Am I not trying my hardest too?I am also reminded of this quote: “Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough. Give the world the best you’ve got anyway.”((At times I feel I do, and I often act upon my beleifs and impulses in an attempt to ‘fix’ the world . . . but, at other times, I wonder whether its me or the world that needs fixing . . . ))So your uncertain, I’m not. I know what needs to be fixed. I’ve seen it, I still see it. If you only knew…And for the last time, yes I do have a firm grasp of reality. But if you wish not to accept that answer, because it’s not to your expectation, then I ask you to please stop asking it, for I will not answer it again. Because there will not be a good enough answer for you, no matter what I say.((Proving things is impossible in this realm.))I can prove things in this realm. Something’s are harder then others though.((The idea is to keep learning (ad infinitum) until you finally do know everything. And not to stop when convenient and declare that the end has been reached. ))The end will come when justice is served. I am merely trying to see that justice gets served in the mean while. Cops do it all the time; do you blame them for doing their job? I see something wrong, I have to help. I can’t let someone down, especially if there is something I can do about it.((Lets talk about the possibilities, since there are no certainties. ))Say’s you. But I don’t think I will take your word for it.-Javier C.
Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-13-2001 07:40 AM
I will certainly miss this post when Johns gone . Maybe we can keep it alive until 2036! If you’ve followed this thread you’ll notice I’ve tried to keep a lighter side to my responses, mostly stupid comments meant to break up the intense scrutiny some people have put John under.As far as the most verbal of John’s critics, Javier Cortez, if I’m not mistaken he has posted his age on the birthday thread as being 21 years old. That could explain a lot. Now age is not that relevant, but maturity rarely comes at that age. He is not a “Time Cop” as he states, rather he probably harbors that fantasy. This is not an attack or threat or anything of the sort. Just a statement of fact.As far as John goes, it would be great if he is who he said he was. I cannot pass judgement on him. All I can do is thank him for this most interesting thread and wish him “God Speed” and tell him to keep the Chevy out of the ditch.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-13-2001 08:01 AM
Mel,The Time Cop statement was hypothetical. And I am very mature for my age, thank you very much.Good-day,Javier C.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-13-2001 08:41 AM
I belong in a cave.Well, not yet. We (what do you mean we, human?) have lived through some difficult times (from the past). But still the fact remains that somehow, humans have gotten through it.
One could say that the probability of having a War increases since we have had nuclear weapons around for a long time. If it comes to pass, then what will you do?
I see no problem with being concerned about the future, maybe it becomes a good thought question.
What can anyone do about it? Meaning that the interaction of humans may have a nullifying effect. Maybe John’s purpose is simple, maybe it is complex. Still from leaders in the world, we still have posturing. Here’s an example:General Ivashov: Russia insists on preservation of 1972 ABM Treaty
12.03.01. 18:29Russia’s position on the 1972 Treaty on the Limitation of Anti-Ballistic Missile Systems is unchanged: it is necessary to preserve the Treaty, strictly observe its standards, and perform all obligations the sides took upon themselves, Colonel General Leonid Ivashov, chief of the Main Directorate of International Military Cooperation at the Defense Ministry of Russia, was reported as making an official statement at a press conference in Moscow March 12.He also stressed that “Russia regarded and regards NATO’s progress east as a threat to its security and the Russian position in this matter has suffered no changes either.”In his opinion, the Russian proposals on the creation of a European non-strategic antimissile defense system, which were handed to NATO Secretary General George Robertson in the course of his February visit to Moscow, “are diametrically opposite to the U.S. intentions of creating a national missile defense system.”The Russian proposals “are not leading to breaches of some obligations or other treaties in this sphere,” he explained. The U.S. intentions at the same time are leading to the disruption of the 1972 ABM Treaty, he said.Russia’s proposals are based on the idea of creating “international mobile forces for relocation to directions of missile threat, whereas the U.S.A. intends to cover only its national territory with a protective umbrella,” he said.In this connection, in his view, the Russian proposals, as opposed to the U.S. ones, “will not cause an arms race but rather may reverse it.”Creating an U.S. national missile defense system, on the contrary, “will lead to a competitive process between creators of strategic defense and attack systems,” he claimed.In accordance with his statement, Russia will never agree to having the United States unilaterally disrupt the foundation of international security such as the ABM Treaty is.Russia’s proposals on the creation of a European non-strategic antimissile system are “diametrically opposite” to the U.S. plans to create a national missile defense system, he said.“Our proposals do not breach any agreements and will not lead to an arms race whereas the U.S. program will assist a competitive process in the area of strategic defense and attack systems,” he stressed.He also mentioned the fact that in the UN Security Council 89 countries spoke against the U.S. national missile defense system and only four in support of it. “The majority of countries are on our side and this frightens the U.S.A.,” he concluded.He also said Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov and U.S. State Secretary Colin Powell would soon discuss the U.S. plans and the Russian proposals in this area.“For our part, we will try to convince the U.S.A. that the implementation of their plans will have ruinous consequences for the world community,” he said.(It just seems right when a talk show host around where I live still says that Russia still has people that react the old way, (as a Communist) when discussing anything about these treaties.) As of 3/12/01, this article from a Russian newspaper (on-line) is still what they are trying to convince their people of.
Posted by John Titor on 03-13-2001 08:46 AM
EMMETT:((As you know, bodies under acceleration lose their initial constant velocity worldline reference with respect to each other – the Twins Paradox.))I’m not sure that’s accurate. Twin Paradox time travel only suspends your perspective on a local level as the “world” around you goes on. You do not change worldlines.
((Given that you have a possible 2.5% divergence from your own worldline (5% on a roundtrip?)on a 60-year trip and the micro-singularities (each having their own worldline) are subject to the same divergence, how do you keep them in phase?))
Good thinking but that’s not exactly the way they work and divergence is not cumulative.
((Does the divergence extend into N-dimensions? Is the 2.5% the total error or is each dimension subject to the 2.5% divergence individually?))
Yes, that’s a little closer. You should perhaps change the “N” to and “X” to avoid string theory confusion.
((…but how did you manage to overcome the problem of gathering sufficient power to artificially create a micro-singularity in such a short time (sometime prior to 2036))
The “machine” with the energy to do it will come on-line very soon. The “method” for doing it has already been “mostly” perfected in the Z machine at the National lab in New Mexico.
((I believe that it would theoretically take the total energy output of the Sun since the time of Richard the Lionhearted (about a thousand years) to form one micro-singularity, let along two.))
Not that much.
BOB:((I haven’t seen an answer to my issue concerning moral turpitude through action or inaction. Did I miss it?))
If I missed something, please repeat it.
BRIDGET:((But let me ask you one simple question: instead of sitting at your computer, why not present yourself to George W, proof in hand? THAT would throw quite a monkey wrench into the government’s cover-up machine, don’t you think?))
Please take a look at the front cover of this month’s Popular Mechanics because it’s a great example of your legacy to 2036 after the war. One side of the cover it describes in great detail how your government is ready spying on you. On the other side (and just as important) it tells you how to install a hot tub.
In March of 2001, Popular Mechanics released the “April” issue of Popular Mechanics. This is the issue that John Titor was referring to.
The reason time travelers do not revel themselves is because your society scares the hell out of us. We do not want to end up in a cement room on a permanent supply of sodium prenatal as men with lab coats poke at our machine with a screwdriver.ALBERT:((…but would not the vintage computer from 1975 be bigger than the time machine to haul back to the future?))Not at all. The 5100 series will fit on a tabletop.ANGEL:((Are people using “reverse speech” in courts, etc. or even recreational?))Not that I’m aware of.RICK:((…and John’s explanation was “gravity sensors”. While I’m not aware of anything called a gravity sensor in this day and age, I wouldn’t discount such a thing.))http://es.epa.gov/ncerqa_abstracts/sbir/other/monana/warburto.htmlFor a second there, I thought 2.5% took a big chunk out of this worldline. I found this site and I’m sure there are others out there.((Russia, China, N. Korea, Cuba, Iraq, Iran, France – and you can add quite a few others to this list – would just love to see America on her knees and will do whatever it is they can to help us down there. NEVER EVER UNDERESTIMATE enemies – especially FORMER enemies (like Russia).))Didn’t North Korea just break off some sort of talks with South Korea?MICHEAL:((WACO…with criminal violations of the law either directly or impliedly as is done in this video, simply doesn’t accord with the real facts. Actually, there’s some evidence now to suggest that not only the FBI, but other federal as well as state and local law enforcement agencies have learned something from the Waco tragedy, and will take great care not to repeat it.))A large point of contention seems to be the “flashes” of light that appear to be gunfire that were recorded from the aircraft flying over the compound. The FBI has stated that these flashes were sunlight reflections. I find that rather interesting since the camera was not a visible light camera, it was a thermal camera. If the federal forces learned anything from WACO it was to install more reliable suppressors on their automatic weapons and don’t use flash grenades that leave shell casings after the fire.JOE:Sorry for the short answers.((1. Could you explain your theory about worldlines? Are there
infinite worldlines? Are all worldlines separate or
connected to each other in some way?))Yes, worldlines are infinite. Yes, they are separate but can be traversed through certain large gravity anomalies.((2. Where did you attend High school and what year did you
graduate? Was it difficult?))No, I did not have a “high school” experience.((3. What college did you attend, what year did you graduate? Would you estimate that your college life was similar to ours in our worldline? ))I was educated at the University of Florida. I entered a military sponsored program in 2029 and graduated between 2033 – 34. No, it was not very similar.((4. Hypothetically: If you fell in love with someone here (lets say Pamela) and you took her “back to the future” with you in your timex machine, wouldn’t that act upset both of our worldlines especiall if she were pregnant? Or all of the worldlines,assuming time travel is possible? Conversly, If you were gay and you took a gay man back with you, would that disrupt the worldlines less, assuming the both you could not bear offspring. ))No, it would not disrupt anyone’s worldlines.((5. Have you had a chance to watch a movie here that you had already seen in your 2036 wordline? If so, did they have the same endings?))Interesting question. If I watch enough of them I should see a difference somewhere but I haven’t seen one yet.BOB 25
Posted by John Titor on 03-13-2001 08:52 AM
EMMETT:((I’m not sure that’s accurate. Twin Paradox time travel only suspends your perspective on a local level as the “world” around you goes on. You do not change worldlines.))After reading this, it occured to me that our definition of worldline may not be the same.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-13-2001 09:18 AM
John,(This may seem like a stupid question, since I am not familiar with any of this in my reality.)Can world-lines converge closer together every so many years?
(Something like world-lines coming closer together during the time Jesus was on Earth, and now in the future, with the awesome power (nuclear) we have, an ebbing or flowing of the convergence and divergence of world-lines.)
((I must add that if this is true, then morals of all world-lines are tilted towards a certain aspect (good or evil) at these times, (causing the outcome of many, many, many worldlines to be similiar at those times)).
Just a thought.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-13-2001 12:26 PM
John,At one time I asked you about the mass of your singularities but didn’t receive an answer. From other information gathered here it appears that your machine heats to about 100 degrees (approx. 400 kelvin).The Hawking Radiation of a singularity with a mass of 3 x 10^20 kg of mass would have a temperature of approx. 400 kelvin.Hawking radiation in kelvins=(6 x 10^-8/M) where M is Solar masses. The smaller the mass the greater the temperature.The mass of 3 x 10^20 kg is equilalent to a slice of the Earth 1.2 miles wide at the equator, extending from pole to pole to the depth of the center of the Earth. (The mass of the Earth is 5.98 x 10^24 kg.) Your society isn’t involved in space travel (according to earlier posts) so it appears that your singularities are madfe from the Earth itself. Ouch! Your society is killing the world. Eco-terrorists as it were.Where is the mass coming from?
Posted by John Titor on 03-13-2001 12:43 PM
EMMETT:((Where is the mass coming from?))E=MCsquared can be solved for mass too.
Posted by John Titor on 03-13-2001 12:49 PM
EMMETT:This appeared to be the same question from the other site so I just copied my old response.((For instance, he has stated that his society is not involved in space travel. He’s also stated that the temperature in and around his device while in use is approximately 100 degrees (approx 375 kelvin). ))I’m not sure I understand the connection between no space travel and the temperature around the device.((If the Hawking Radiation of a black hole stated in Kelvins is…))The singularities are not unstable; therefore, uncontrolled evaporation is not possible. In addition, there is no extemporaneous matter near the singularity that would cause it to give off radiation or heat.((Or – he’s taken a slice of the Earth about 1.2 miles wide at the equator from pole to pole down to the center of the Earth and compressed it into a singularity. And his machine has two of them, GE has a larger unit (C206) and there are multiple machines of each model (C204 & C206). ))A singularity about the size of an electron would only require the mass of a large mountain. The singularities inside the C204 are much small than that. And no, I didn’t make them.((If his society doesn’t space travel – then they are gobbling up the Earth to make their singularities.))You know… E = MC squared can be written to solve for mass too.
Posted by Don Berg on 03-13-2001 04:44 PM
John Titor, would you consider having your departure from this time period be video taped for Art Bell? What would you expect to be seen during that event from the outside perspective? I remember that Art wanted to do this when MadMan Markham was going to attempt time travel, so I would expect Art would be interested. Please email and fax Art about this proposal if you accept.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-13-2001 05:01 PM
SmileDear Don,He is planning on having someone video tape his departure.What it will look like:((Pamela: 1.What exactly would an observer see as they saw you arriving in this time? and exactly what would they see as you departed? would you just appear suddenly or slowly? would you look like a heat mirage for awhile? any light effects? or hazy misty shimmering distortion?Time travel_0- The observation of time travelers “appearing” suddenly in a world line do not happen very often. There are two cases and two points of view to consider. In the first case, the time machine does not move as it goes from one world line to another and then returns. The people watching on the original world line would wave good bye and watch as the machine is turned on.
There would be a static discharge and the air would appear to “ripple” as if it were getting denser. Then, it would stop and the machine will have appeared to have gone no where. If the machine doesn’t move its position from world line to world line, the observer would not see it disappear at all. In the second case, if the machine is moved, it would disappear from the viewpoint of the observer and return in a different location based on where it was moved and turned on from the destination world line. In that case, the rippling seems to dissolve the machine and it disappears. If that happens while you are watching it leave and you expect it to return, you know it was moved or had a serious malfunction. It is actually quite dangerous to get too close to a distortion unit as it enters or leaves a world line. It vents radiation and has a very strong localized gravity field. Personally, I worry about that a great deal.))sincerely,pamela[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-13-2001 at 05:14 PM]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-13-2001 10:20 PM
Actually John,You really do not have to answer my questions. I saw the computer on a webpage after I asked that question. I was under the assumption that IBM only had larger computers back then at that time. I do not think any other questions I asked are even that relevant. I was also under the assumption that space travel would come first, now I have my doubts, and as one person put it:
Space is big. I saw some of the other webpages also.
Time is big. I will be thinking about all of this more in the summer, too much to do right now.Well, certainly I wonder what humans will be doing in the future as to the wisdom that may be needed with certain aspects of technological breakthroughs. I really wonder if humankind has the wisdom in some of these pursuits.I really wonder.Here’s hoping we did not step on your toes too much.
Posted by Raxamon Bathory on 03-14-2001 02:05 AM
ExclamationGood evening to all of you, and John. I wont start this off by displaying whether I fully believe you or not, other than I’d love to believe you, perhaps even love the fact that I’d love to believe you, but not whether I concretely do, or not.I am not very good grammatically, or even at organizing my thoughts in a cohesive list of things, so please bear with me as I struggle to manipulate an unweildly and cumbersome form of communication to the best of my ability. First and foremost I am inquisitive about religious belief systems you seem to make many references to a obviously Male Dominated religious system, perhaps even the religion I loathe so much, known as Christianity.
Being that you claim to be from 2036, you must forgive my arrogance but I will assume for you to be a representative of people in that time, and that world-line.
Am I, a faithful Witchcraft Practicing Neo-pagan to believe that Christianity is still the dominant form of religion in whats left of a post-cataclysmic United States?
And that mankind is still aspiring towards a rather unbalanced religion, responsible for a lot of the sorrow, misery, torture, death, and narrow mindedness of this world-lines past, and in some ways present, and none actively seek reunification with the old ways, seeking to come closer to the bosom of earth based religion?
Or is it that Neo-paganism is such a minority in your time and world-line that you have yet to mention it in any form?
I am sorry to sound rather bitter, but with regards to most of Christianity and its followers, all I have seen and experienced is narrow mindedness, hatred, and malevolent intent towards anything remotely different from themselves (Holy War is a good example, Salem Witch trials is another, and down here in the deep south you can find it anywhere simply by walking into a southern baptist church on Sunday wearing a pentagram and wearing black).
If neo-paganism is not a viable and accepted religion or tolerated much amongst the christian counterparts in your communities, I should think I know where I’ll be aiming my guns when, and if such a war arrives. It is my deep seated belief that if all religions don't wake up and unify and realize all religious (and spiritual) belief leads to the same sources, there may well be uprisings from pagans (I should think after so many centuries of hatred we’re quite fed up by now, and its showing in the Black Metal musical underground movement occurring presently in Norway, and some of Europe in which angry fans are quite literally burning centuries old catholic churches to the ground sometimes with followers inside).I wont leave anything aside in saying I’m a Gen X individual, only difference instead of not caring, I’m angry, Not only am I angry, I’m rather overjoyed to hear the possibility of Mutually Assured Destruction for all mankind, because for the most part, most people dont deserve the life given to them, I’ll be cheering from the sidelines when the bombs start dropping, waiting for an opportunity for an anarchistic environment wherein I could easily inact revenge upon Governmental officials, and Religious Zealots with deadly force.However, the image you produce of mankind drawing inward upon itself, and becoming….more holistic in a sense, caring more about the community as a whole, and the well being of the mass body, than the greed of the self I must admit is a heartening one, perhaps a step towards spiritual enlightenment, for all parties, in which Christian, Pagans, Muslims, Buddhists and the like can all sit down and break bread with each other and be as brothers.
If such is the case I would indeed think, even through the hardships, I’d be more than willing to live through that. Furthermore the possibility for daily bloodshed from water raiders and the like would thrill me, a more earth based, rather than economy, or rather Capitalistic based life would seem more than an enjoyable experience.Personally many seem to think of the fact of millions of dying as a bad thing, I don't.
I think getting rid of the mass populace would be a wonderful thing, and rest assured if it happens, I’ll be doing my part to weed out the morons that slipped through the cracks of devastation with the point of a gun, of that you have my oath.At any rate, I have a favor to ask of you, if you don't mind.
You stated earlier, you would post this information up on the net in your world-line when you arrived back at your destination (or rather as close as you can get to your original world-line).
I have two children who I should hope will be smart enough to live through the devastation (perhaps though it would however be a kinder gesture that they did not however, considering possibility of nuclear winter, fallout, mutation, cancer, morons freely toting guns etc).
Please do me a favor and look up if you can Celeste Electra Watson, and Damon Caine Watson, and tell them their father loves them deeply, and wishes them the best in all that they achieve, and that I wish the light grace and love of the Lord and Lady to shine upon them always and in all that they do.
I have no message for myself, as in truth its not me, and even if it was, I should be 57 by this time, and possibly A. Dead or B. a doddering old fool. And also how would the other me with a different time-line know to even look myself up. which means only that the message would never get to me. Which is why I ask you the favor of directly looking up my children if they still live and telling them such.On another note, out of curiosity, say one turned on a Tesla coil nearby the machine you use to travel, emitting the emp dreaded by anything with transistors, and then attempted to utilize the time machine? is it shielded against the effects of EMP or would you then be sitting, staring at a now useless piece of machinery stuck in a time period you were unfamiliar with?
Furthermore, also electromagnetism I should think would be slightly different from our time to yours, considering massive worldwide global thermonuclear war would destroy most power grids *snicker* in your time period, do other electromagnetic fields such as those produced from surrounding power lines, and such in any way hamper the proper utilization of the machine? or make it more difficult to take accurate “snapshots” so that you remain “stuck to the world” ?Also on a further note…considering you’ll never actually get back to your own world-line, why go back?
I dunno bout you, but I’d say FuX0R that, and not care anymore and slide further and further back in time (or forward) as far as I possibly could, expecting cumulative divergence from my point of origin, seeking out and exploring the many possibilities of the multiverse.
I should think a world where Hitler won would be on the side of the amount of divergence I’m talking about, or a World Where the Egyptian Empire was never beaten by the Persians and Alexander the Great, thusly resulting in a superpower of the same might of Rome by the time of Cleopatra's reign (or lack of reign, lol we are talking massive divergence here are we not?) and why settle for the efforts of petty human civilization?
go back, keep going back, Millions of years, grab up specimens of the Triassic era, then have fun hopping back into the future with your specimens then gleefully set loose say, hell a pack of raptors onto the populace of New York? then laugh as you warp off to another point in time, in another world, where any possibility could be reality. (only thing I’d be really worried about is hopping into a world where the Russians did not back down from the Cuban missile crisis, under the Kennedy administration).
After all who is gonna stop you?
the multiverse is now your playground, and who cares about your time period and their problems, as you said others would step through from other world-lines to take your place in your concurrent world-line, perhaps one of them will decide to go back with the machine so they get what they want, and you get a free ride on one of the greatest adventures I could imagine.I dunno, but that's what I’d do, I mean you just took a mission where in essence quite simply there is NO return, so why give a flip about the issues of humans, your now above all that with the multiverse being your playground.Anyways that's just a few ideas and questions and whatnot I figured I’d toss your way. Sounds like fun were it real, and if it isn’t **** man write a book. I’d pay just to read it LOL
Posted by John Titor on 03-14-2001 08:12 AM
Departure Video for Art Bell
((John Titor, would you consider having your departure from this time period be video taped for Art Bell? What would you expect to be seen during that event from the outside perspective? I remember that Art wanted to do this when
MadMan Markham was going to attempt time travel, so I would expect Art would be interested. Please email and fax Art about this proposal if you accept. ))
Earlier in the thread I had said I would be willing to videotape my departure and Pamela copied a much earlier post describing it. There are a few technical and logistical problems but I do plan to have it done. (i.e. the videotape recording has static and interference if it’s too close to the unit.) At this point, the videotape would be for pure entertainment value. It won’t prove one way or another if I’m a time traveler but I feel you deserve just a tad of bread and circuses.
When I approached my grandfather in 1975 it took me quite a while to convince him I was who I said I was. He said something I’ve never forgotten and I’ve heard some of you allude to it also. After looking at the unit he turned to me and said, “Either you’ve escaped from an insane asylum or you’re a time traveler.” As the weeks went on, it occurred to me that both were just as threatening and dangerous to him and I’m not sure he ever decided which one was worse.
Based on my own experiences on the web and a few comments some of you have made, I suspect Art is growing weary of people claiming to be time travelers for the same reason. As we have discussed, there is really no way to prove it and I would imagine Art is tired of putting himself at risk by entertaining the idea. He does have a responsibility to his listeners and I respect that. I suppose it goes back to the old question you’ve all asked yourselves. What is proof of time travel?
Posted by Joe Section on 03-14-2001 08:59 AM
John Titor,I am confused by one of your actions. Why is it NOT ok to give us information about our near future in detail, but it IS ok to take back detailed emails and totally modify that time line?I would like to know the next AOL on this time line, not another
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-14-2001 09:23 AM
Well what a way to play the crowd John. But what are you truly trying to say?Often times you have hidden meanings in your statements. And I know that this time is no acceptation. Why are you now emphasizing trying to say something about proving to us if you are real or not?As a way out perhaps?That video of your departure, are you afraid that it will be proven fraudulent?And you just want to spare people the disappointment?Well if my guesses are correct, I think we found something we agree on. We both wouldn’t like to see people suckered into believing you as a fraud.-Javier C.
Posted by John Titor on 03-14-2001 10:09 AM
((Why is it NOT ok to give us information about our near future in detail, but it IS ok to take back detailed emails and totally modify that time line?))I’m not saying anything in your messages. You are. Are you suggesting I edit your emails? Are you unable to weigh the consequences of your opportunity and I am now responsible for what you might say to yourself? Now that you have the chance to put your own morals to the test do you feel you’re incapable of living up to your own standards?
Is it wrong to say one thing and not something else? If you feel you should tell yourself to buy a certain stock than I suppose you are willing to take the risk that “your” advice doesn’t prove wrong in the next few days.
What ever I might do, I would consider the fact that someday you will have to address this question again as an entire society.
J.C. Why would I offer to make the video if I thought it would “expose” me? If it makes you feel better, I doubt it will change your mind anyway but it will give you something to talk about when I’m gone. I think that’s the greatest gift I could give you.
Posted by Joe Section on 03-14-2001 10:48 AM
John T,It is not against my morals to give myself a financial edge with some information from the future, but it does seem to be against your morals as you won’t give any of us a stock tip or any specific information from the future.Why would you allow all kinds of information to make it’s way back in time, yet give no information on this time line? The exchange of information would not be possible without your help.I am sure if you asked the future me, he would give permission to give the current me some useful information>>I’m not saying anything in your messages. You are. Are you suggesting I edit your emails? Are you unable to weigh the consequences of your opportunity and I am now responsible for what you might say to yourself? Now that you have the chance to put your own morals to the test do you feel you’re incapable of living up to your own standards?<<
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-14-2001 10:57 AM
Greatest gift for me? How do you know what the greatest gift for me is? I’d take it you didn’t mean just me when you said that.
Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-14-2001 10:57 AM
WinkI am not going to be sending an e-mail to myself in 1998 because I am sticking to my belief that since I did not receive an e-mail from myself in 1998, then it never happened.I would, however, like to receive an e-mail message from myself in the future. I would now how I would be able to prove to myself that it was legit.Have fun, all, and I look forward to seeing your departure, John.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-14-2001 11:19 AM
John,I know that you don’t understand…which is sad. Its the Hawking Radiation that you can’t overcome. This radiation is seperate from any other radiation given off by extemporaneous matter falling into the singularity. It is part of the description of a singularity per se absent any other matter. A singularity emits Hawking Radiation.A simple “E=Mc^2” isn’t the answer here. You have to form the singularity for your machine to work and that takes mass – real, not virtual mass. You have to get the mass for the singularity from somewhere and if you can’t or don’t travel in space (to grab the mass from somewhere other than Earth) then you have to be gobbling up the planet itself.The truly faulty part of your description of your device involves the Hawking Radiation. You can’t overcome it and you can’t ignore it. Its not the size of the singularity that matters – its solely the mass involved that determines the temperature of the radiation.400 kelvin or 100 degrees C emitted as Hawking Radiation from the singularity requires a mass of 3 * 10^20 kg. Lert’s assume that the mass of the singularity is “about the mass of a large mountain”. Let’s say that the mass of the singularity is 1/1,000,000th (5.98*10^18 kg)the mass of the Earth. The Hawking Radiation temperature around your singularity will be approximately 20,000 degrees kelvin. The surface temperature of the sun is about 5,600 degrees kelvin. That’s a sunburn that you won’t forget for a while.So, the reparte has been fun. But your device, as described, simply won’t work.Its too bad that this has occurred. People want to believe in the future and future technology but get confused by bad science. As I’ve said before, it doesn’t particularly bother me that you don’t really have a time machine. Its fun to ” jus’ ‘spose” it was true. The problem comes when people really are convinced that its true based on bad science. In any case, there’s plenty of evidence available for people to check on their own so they can make informed decisions and learn what the true state of the science is. Where we are in physics today is truly exciting without making it up.20,000 degrees…ouch, ouch, ouch!
Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-14-2001 11:20 AM
SmileJohn, I just want to clarify my last post: I am not looking forward to your leaving in the sense that I want you to go, I meant it that I am looking forward to seeing your departure from an observational perspective. This has been an enjoyable, educational, and thought-provoking thread.[Edited by David R Ferguson on 03-14-2001 at 11:41 AM]
Posted by John Titor on 03-14-2001 11:55 AM
((I know that you don’t understand…which is sad.))Perhaps you are just having a hard time making yourself clear? I will admit you are a little out of my ballpark but I do understand what you are referring to.((It’s the Hawking Radiation that you can’t overcome. This radiation is separate from any other radiation given off by extemporaneous matter falling into the singularity. It is part of the description of a singularity per se absent any other matter. A singularity emits Hawking Radiation.))Yes, that is true. If you firmly believe that Hawking radiation cannot be controlled or goes on even without the presence of virtual particles forever until the singularity explodes than you are correct.((A simple “E=Mc^2” isn’t the answer here.))You asked where the mass comes from. I simply pointed out that mass and energy are interchangeable in the same equation. One of my Stanford pals tells me there is a running gag about the chances a VW Beetle spontaneously appearing inside the accelerator. It could only come from the transfer of energy to mass.((You have to form the singularity for your machine to work and that takes mass – real, not virtual mass.))That is incorrect.((The truly faulty part of your description of your device involves the Hawking Radiation. You can’t overcome it and you can’t ignore it. Its not the size of the singularity that matters – its solely the mass involved that determines the temperature of the radiation.))You seem to be quite upset and I understand your argument. I do however think it is important to gather the facts and probabilities before expelling emotional energy on them. Please keep in mind that I have not shared all the technical details of the machine with you. So an easy out would be for me to just make something up.
However, and as I’m sure you are aware, Stephen Hawking admits that his own equations support the “possibility” that microsingularities may not totally disappear as they evaporate in a sea of virtual particles and in fact may leave behind a very stable naked singularity. I’m sure you can look that up. I suppose the difficult part is believing that we’ve taken advantage of it, not that it’s impossible.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-14-2001 11:58 AM
My.Back to my reality.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-14-2001 12:47 PM
Inherently, freedom from responsibility, is not evidenced in this Universe, this is why humans are so small.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-14-2001 01:32 PM
Darby, I simply do not have time to get into details right now – but, if you take some time to do some internet searches you will find that not only is is POSSIBLE to create a microsingularity, it is possibly to do so NOW with a linear accellerator. In fact, there was an article recently (about 5-6 months ago I think, which is why I can’t remember the exact source right now) that stated there is a distinct probability of it happening.I THINK if you do a search on the discovery channel, or discovery magazine, you should find this information yourself.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-14-2001 08:49 PM
Questionspeaking of time, i am on page 18 and have spent hours contemplating, reading, going to links etc. Facinating stuff. Great Discussion.I do have a question or two, and please forgive me if they were addressed and I have not reached them yet.In the years leading to the civil war in the US and ww3, when searches are being conducted in homes, what is being searched for specifically? I can assume weapons, but that seems too simple.Also, John, can you elaborate on recognizing who the enemy will be domestically? You had stated sometime back in the thread that it would be those who had the most to lose..(paraphrasing) I may be taking this out of context, but maybe not.I am on the fence post, but intrigued by this topic. I cannot obviously say you are a TT, but that is not the issue for me. I need no proof. At the least, this discussion has been a laymans guide to understanding Time Travel theory. At most, you are “visiting”. Either way, Thanks
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-15-2001 11:41 AM
Who’s going to remember this thread in the future?Have you made a poster about something like “I am from 2036” to jog your memory?If these events come to pass, have you made plans about what you will do?No need to answer me, but in a couple of years, no one may remember this thread, due to life events of the yous or you.I find the events mentioned as incredible, I also find that most people could look forward and describe certain events that might take place in the future. These possibilities have always been with us.I, myself, and I have a lot of meetings with myself, self, and I am having another meeting with myself, dictate that the 50 me-s that are all having meetings with myself may get confused from time to time. This leaves 50 or more me-s in every world-line with more me-s showing up possibly all the time.
With all of you doing all the same, then these parallel worlds are all busy with all the you-s and me-s.
We all only take up one space on the game-board still in the world.
Further thoughts on all of these meetings may be forthcoming, soon I hope.In the near future, I know what I have to do, due to obligations of all the me-s that had meetings with all the other me-s, I guess.
Well, that leaves all of the me-s tied up at the moment.Anyone else feel this way?
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-15-2001 11:48 AM
If it seems that I may be howling at the Moon, Ah~~~~~~Ow, would you might think of it as a form of March Madness?After all, all of the me-s holding all of these me-s meetings may have nothing to do, if not howling at the Moon, leaving the other me-s to say, what a pity, that some of the me-s are howling at the Moon. I also have to assume that all of the other world-lines are having quite a time also with this.
I can not decide when I had the time to do all of this, though.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-15-2001 12:03 PM
Also, one could write a paper describing this action as a Class, perhaps even putting it in a computer, with a programming language to describe this Class. Making a Object of the Class and referencing it, would instansiate this Class. This would give the computer a Busy Class Object that describes the methods, events, and properties of the Busy Class Act.
I must be a Busy Class Object Act.
Is this part of the Future events?Fitting at this time, I must include a Prayer:Now, I lay me down to sleep. I pray the Lord my soul to keep.And if I should die, before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-15-2001 12:15 PM
I leave to go into the Future, moment by moment, step, by step.What awaits me there?There was another forum where a topic was created. Oxuma, a Brailizan, came up with this: (Give credit where credit is due).
What has someone said to you that was stupid at some time in your life?Some of the replies given back by people who responded could be made into a sort of conversation that would go like this:Space is big.The idea is good, but the forum is not.There’s grass on the lawn.Is that all there is to talk about?The seashore is where the sea and the shore meet.If I taught you everything I know, you still would not know anything.Can someone go out and get me a monkey sandwich?The winner was given some sort of symbolic prize: The Golden Grass Award.And the winner, was: There’s grass on the lawn.I leave you to your thoughts.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-15-2001 01:17 PM
John,Honestly, I’m not upset about any of this…and the only emotion involved for me is joy. This is fun! It really is. And the energy expelled (other than the Hawking Radiation <poke> is intellectual. Back to the didactic…I realize that you haven’t given “all of the technical details” of the device. If it (the device) exists, the details aren’t yours to give in any case.
The details of the device, as intellectual property, belongs to GE and its shareholders (of which I am one).
The details that you have posted publicly may actually be in violation of copyright and patent law relative to the rights of GE in 2001.
Did the Board of Directors of today’s GE authorize you to publicly post their technical drawings? (Did GE in 2036 for that matter give similar authorization?)
The reason that I ask this question is that we don’t know that GE isn’t, in fact, working on this device as we speak.
The technical drawing that you have posted, if it reflects a reality, has some implications that you may not have taken into consideration. You see a time machine. I see a very powerful weapons system – an x-ray emitter with directional control. It’s there in the drawing.X-rays will be emitted if matter is pumped into the device (which you say isn’t happening) and the engineers are concerned about where to vent the x-rays – a mismatch.
The drawing indicates in Detail #5 “X-Ray Venting Zone”. It details x-rays being focused and vented directionally. It has applications as a weapons system and today’s DOD & GE would not want any details of the system publicized.
Posted by John Titor on 03-15-2001 02:11 PM
EMMETT:I too enjoy these conversations.((I realize that you haven’t given “all of the technical details” of the device.))Actually, I’m hoping the cut-a-way drawing from the manual will be available to you very soon.((If it (the device) exists, the details aren’t yours to give in any case.))…smiling… So let me get this straight, John please prove you’re a time traveler but don’t show us any copyrighted material?((The details that you have posted publicly may actually be in violation of copyright and patent law relative to the rights of GE in 2001.))No, I am not breaking any of “my” laws but I suppose that’s something else you and your world-line will have to deal with when time travel comes.((The reason that I ask this question is that we don’t know that GE isn’t, in fact, working on this device as we speak.))They might be now.((You see a time machine. I see a very powerful weapons system – an x-ray emitter with directional control. It’s there in the drawing.))Yes I suppose that is one thing you could do with it. I could also cut my hand off with a power saw or heat up a crowd of people with a microwave. However, I believe Teller already came up with an X-ray laser that destroys itself after going off.((X-rays will be emitted if matter is pumped into the device (which you say isn’t happening) and the engineers are concerned about where to vent the x-rays – a mismatch.))Actually, I thought we were focusing on the degree of radiation and temperature. I don’t believe I ever said it didn’t give off radiation. Yes, the device does give off x-rays.((The drawing indicates in Detail #5 “X-Ray Venting Zone”. It details x-rays being focused and vented directionally. It has applications as a weapons system and today’s DOD & GE would not want any details of the system publicized.))As you said, it’s interesting that I see a time machine and you see a weapon. Maybe it’s a sign of the “times”. However, it is a good point. If the Chinese or Russians thought you had one of these what do you think they would do?
Again, maybe you should ask yourself if you’re sure you want me to prove I’m a time traveler. Maybe that’s what makes a time traveler “evil” in that he would be willing to share everything with you. If that were true, does J.C. have a good point after all?
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 03-15-2001 02:30 PM
John – This has been fascinating.John – IF you (or other TTs), were to lose – a way to get back – would there be a rescue team? Your story would not go over really well here in 2000, if you were in need of assistance – probably lock you up with the other time travelers. No, I’m sure of it. Though I understand you have family. Are there interesting stories of TTs who have had to wing it through tough missions? What would you do. Get a job? Freelance engineering?Another thing, if you were to take back a carload of shopping items, would they make it?Sounds like your heading back soon. Did I hear that correct?Does the “you” in the other time line, have to “absorb” you back? How do you keep from having two “yous”, back home?Can you e-mail us from the future and tell us how we’re doing there? No, guess not.[Edited by Craig Cuthbert on 03-15-2001 at 02:51 PM]
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-15-2001 04:24 PM
Darby,you are so funny.“The details of the device, as intellectual property, belongs to GE and its shareholders (of which I am one). The details that you have posted publicly may actually be in violation of copyright and patent law relative to the rights of GE in 2001. Did the Board of Directors of today’s GE authorize you to publicly post their technical drawings? (Did GE in 2036 for that matter give similar authorization?) The reason that I ask this question is that we don’t know that GE isn’t, in fact, working on this device as we speak. The technical drawing that you have ..”If John’s device is real .it belongs to another world altogether. another GE, therefore it would violate no known copy right laws here.or patent laws here.
In fact with a 2.5 divergence how do you know the patent numbers or the device would be the same?
Besides as of now the patent doesn't even exist here. technically it would not be THIS GE’s pictures. It would not be THIS GE’s device. it belongs to another world line. since it hasn't been invented yet how would you say he got the pictures??
Now THAT would be an interesting case indeed. would they have to prove him to be a time traveler? Is there known laws at this time that states this as a criminal offense to share technology from other world lines? what if it is NOT an offense in John’s world?
The Burden of proof would fall on YOU, not on John.…..Wouldnt want THAT case! Would any lawyer actually TAKE that case??? hehehhmmm…noticed Doc’s board is down again…-pamela[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-15-2001 at 04:51 PM]
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-15-2001 08:47 PM
Just to change the subject for a minute; doesn’t it seem strange that this board has been hit so much? I checked and most don’t get over 500 or so. (this one over 19,000!!!)This has had more than any other. The only other ones that come close are two discussions about c2c guests. What do you think of that, if anything?Lola
Posted by John Titor on 03-15-2001 09:33 PM
((If John’s device is real .it belongs to another world altogether. another GE, therefore it would violate no known copy right laws here.or patent laws here.))Any government document can not be copyrighted. I could also argue that the manual “could” be from a future where it has become public domain but then again, it would mean proving I am a time traveler.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-15-2001 09:41 PM
CoolLOLA: Hi, I agree that it is amazing how many views have been done on this discussion. Well, maybe not. It is a topic that does not itself generate tons of controversy it seems, but as evidenced by the many exchanges, it can get heated. I wish I had been here for the whole discussion instead of reading up.No matter if John is a real TT or not. He started and kept up with a wonderful and informative discussion. In a way I will be a little sad when this thread stops altogether. It was truly the best thread I have read in a long *time*. I am not a PhD, but I did get a good laymans view on the theories surrounding Time Travel. It has been an interest for as long as I remember.Question: Anyone else acutely conscious of the word *time* in daily speech? I am now. Just my focus I guess.To All who Participated:Thanks for the great read! Everyone. There are many well thought out parties on this sys.Rick: You really DoD Intel?
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-15-2001 10:31 PM
John,So what do you have to say about what you started here? Have you no idea that some of these people are following you like the Pie Pipper?I don’t know about you, but I call that taking advantage of buying into people’s fascination with Time Travel, using that as leverage for perhaps your “Secret Agenda.”Wherever you go in 3 weeks John, you’ll find someone with enough guts to stand up to people like you, and oppose your exploitation. Remember ME!-Javier C.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-15-2001 10:57 PM
I still do not see how anyone can be from a future when that has not happened as far as I am concerned yet.
No doubt the answer is here in this thread.
I will have to go over it again.
For a moment, I was thinking that a microsinglularity might just eat energy, and mass just gets in the way, (it’s not needed), making a microsinglularity a kind of energy generator that can move mass with its energy field, (skirting around its edge horizon event).
I have to look that up, again.
If so, then building this thing may not be all that difficult, except for a few engineering problems.
Should of listened to the Prof in Thermodynamics, after all he wrote the answers for the test on the blackboard.
At the time, I guess I was interested in something else, I could tell you what, but I’ll keep it to myself for now.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-15-2001 11:14 PM
Oh, I see you invented a new machine here. What do you call this thing?
I call it a ‘Time Travel’ machine.
Well, what do you hope it does when you turn it on?
I hope it doesn’t blow up the entire Solar System.
Interesting.Well , I think it be more interesting if humans waited until we can take the whole entire Universe along.
Well, what do you mean?
Well, if we had antimatter, and could blow up the whole entire Universe, we could call it, “The Big Bang”.
Posted by Al Ryder on 03-15-2001 11:17 PM
Do you have a Timex Sinclair in your collection ??
Posted by Jim Houlahan on 03-16-2001 12:22 AM
Hi John,You’ve mentioned (and it makes sense that) computers get much better by your time. Considering the vast difference between that 1975-vintage IBM 5100 you’ve picked up and the computer I have sitting on my desk, I can’t imagine what computers will be like in 2036. Are they even still called “computers”?
Are you carrying a computing device from your time?
Have you had to use our ancient technology for all this posting? I think I’d like to use my 1978 TRS-80 Model 1 again for nostalgia’s sake, but 10 minutes of that and I’d have to stop from frustration. How are you coping with our “stone-knives and bear-skins” technology? That’s a Star Trek reference. Have you watched Star Trek?What can you tell us about future computing technology without conflicting with your “temporal prime directive”? We could guess some things based on Moore’s Law concerning storage, speed, etc. It would be nice for computer-geeks like me to hear some specifics though – especially about form, function and interface.Thanks for spending time giving us all great stuff to think about!
Posted by Jay Richards on 03-16-2001 12:36 AM
John, you never addressed my question posted several days ago. Would you address it?Also, I noticed a post from you on a different thread where you said something to the effect that everything that can or could have ever happened has happened, and thus there’s an infinite number of realities.If there were an infinite number of realities, then there would necessarily arise a reality that somehow causes there to be no other realities. In fact, an infinite number of such realities would have to arise that cause there to be no other realities.It’d also necessarily give rise to a reality that somehow causes there to be only one single reality. In fact, it would necessarily give rise to an infinite number of such realities that somehow cause there to be only one reality.It’d also necessarily give rise to a reality that somehow causes there to no realities at all. In fact, it would necessarily give rise to an infinite number of such realities that somehow cause there to be no realities at all.One might desire to argue that such realities could arise in the future, from our perspective, and we simply haven’t encountered the effects of that yet but we might in our future. But if that where the case, then there would necessarily arise an infinite number of realities that somehow causes there to have never been any other reality from any perspective.Etc.There seems to be a bit of a problem with any sort of “infinite reality” concept (or infinite Universes, for that matter), doesn’t there?So furthermore, if there’s a limit to the quantity of realities (or Universes, for that matter), which logic clearly dictates that there must be, what is the limiting factor?Is it the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin? I don’t think so. There can be only one.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-16-2001 06:31 AM
ArrowAL: The Timex Sinclair…I had one. I was 10 and it was incredible! At that time I remember getting the expansion pack for the RAM, it came stock with 2k i think. All Basic code on hot keys. Thanks, never thought anyone else used one. Seems to me the Sinclair was as useless as the Altair though. (that was b4 my start in comps.)JOHN:
I agree with Jim. I to am interested in your thoughts on the future of computers and their interface etc. Any new types of peripheral devices?Also,if the WTO protesters in Seattle had been at the time of the future civil war, would they be at all similar to the victors of the war?And 1 more thing, I know you have commented about your puzzlement at questions regarding Bill Gates. Well, Bill Gates has an interesting story in how he became the wealthiest man (monetarily) on earth. Obvious, however if what you suggest of the future is true, I see Mr. Gates as a becoming a pinata for the amusement of those opposed to his iconical representation of wealth.
Hmmm. Being that his company has been (arguably unfairly) chased by anti-trust issues..does he become a financial force behind the Constitutional defenders?
Just wonderin’
Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-16-2001 07:04 AM
Sounds like the computers of the future will be much like the kind found in the Monty Python movie” Brazil” with their ancient typewriter keyboards and those hilarious screen magnifiers. Can anyone tell me what a “Pie Pipper” is?
Computer from the odd-ball movie Brazil. I love the retro keyboard, and the micro screen enlarger.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-16-2001 07:09 AM
Phil: “Rick: You really DoD Intel? ”My background is in intel. Communications, electronics, intelligence. Currently I work in the computer security field. I work in a national research facility. I keep my hands in intelligence – though no longer professionally. Once you’re a part of that, you never really leave it.I am a very patriotic person. I joined the military when I was younger because of patriotism, not for college, not for the fun of it, and certainly not because I HAD to do it. I did it because I believe in the Constitution of the United States.At the same time – I believe, apparently like John, that our society, and indeed our government, has taken a turn for the worst.
See… we the people, ARE the government.
When a society’s morals break down, the government isn’t far behind. We’ve got this “entity” called “government” now, that has grown massively in power, while losing all common sense.
In order for American citizens to take control of their government, two things must occur. Firstly, the secret societies that operate in Washington DC must be eliminated. This “swamp” must be drained. Secondly, the American government must put the needs and interests of American first before everything else. This goes in direct opposition of what the global oligarchs desire.
The truth is a non-existent entity can’t HAVE common sense.
It can only have bureaucratic ‘thoughts’ – the collective thoughts, and actions of a group of people controlling the purse strings, controlling everything, even down the people of the country.The problem with this is – people like me still exist and probably always will. We sit within a system that we view as corrupt, and believe we can change it within the system itself. We try, hitting brick wall after brick wall.I still believe that our greatest achievements are yet to come – and yet, a gnawing feeling in the pit of my stomach has been telling me that something is going to happen, and soon. I’ve felt this for about 5-6 years now. I can not put my finger on it, but, it all comes back to your question… Intelligence.We watch foreign governments and wonder what they will do next, even predict what they will do next. We see things like Mad Cow disease – and more recently a suddenl virile outbreak of hoof and mouth disease. It didn’t hit just one farm, it hit most of England at the same time. I believe – along with others, that this was a biological attack (what better way to get away with murdering millions of people without getting caught? You reduce their food supplies, and they die slowly. You’re never caught because no one knows where you released the disease).Sitting here, reading this forum – and seeing what someone else saw – that there were 19K hits or more makes me wonder about the future. John may or may not be “for real” – but I will reserve my final judgement for the upcoming video – even so, he has sparked an intelligence, well thoughtout discussion on the part of each and everyone writing here. We all are going to come away with a heightened sense of our own reality, mortality and perhaps even our own future.If John has been accurate on even a small portion of his future predictions (which by the way, he has made several, you simply have to carefully read the notes here) then my own thoughts follow along on the civil war, and even nuclear war. MY family will have a fallout shelter within a few months.I already am a ‘survivalist’.
My web site has been online for years and contains a lot of information about nuclear war, disasters, storms, earth changes… you name it, it’s there. If anyone wants the URL, write me privately (Not sure if I can post it here). In the mean time – I personally will be keeping my eyes on the intel side of things. Many others will be too.
Posted by John Titor on 03-16-2001 07:55 AM
To my knowledge, there are no other sites where these pictures can be seen and is stable. A few of them have not been posted before. I suspect they will generate more questions which I will try to address.
John
http://content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=get_album&ID_Topic=2&ID_Community=MyTimeMachine
Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-16-2001 08:28 AM
SmileMel:I believe you are referencing a comment made by Javier a few posts earlier, and I believe “Pie Pipper” was just misspelled…I believe he meant “The Pied Piper,” the legendary character and exterminator from the German fairy tale of the same name who first led rats out of a village by playing his magic pipe. Later he led all the children of the village away when the town folk refused to pay him for ridding their village of the rat infestation.
Posted by Bob Marz on 03-16-2001 09:10 AM
No No No. The Pied Piper was a mere facsimile of our future Lord, the Pie Pipper. A poseur. An interloper. All hail and bow to the Lord of the Future! The Pie Pipper. Mothers shalt bake the pies, even shalt they include the apple, the strawberry-rhubarb and the chocolate silk. Baker’s Square shalt become places of worship. And the pies shall be the symbol we shalt follow. Heretics and infidels who shalt mock and ridicule the Pie Pipper shall be cast into a cherry pit.I (vaguely) remember a book by Joe Haldeman where one of the characters says, “With all these infinite moments, the future must get pretty crowded, eh?”That time traveller answered, “You can’t crowd infinity!”
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-16-2001 09:34 AM
We’re going to die.At least while you are here, John, have you visited some of the people’s leader, at Disneyland, “Mickey Mouse”?Who’s the leader of the land, whos made for you and me?M–i–c–k–e–y, M-o-u-s-e,Mickey Mouse, Mickey MouseForever will he lead us to the end.Who’s the leader of the land, whos made for you and me?M–i–c–, k–e–y, M-o-u-s-e.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-16-2001 09:37 AM
Thumbs upMEL: I think what John actually said was that typewriters are in use in the future because it requires no electricity. Makes sense to me. Consider what a waste it is to use a computer (electric) to type a single note that will be simply thrown away after it is read….hmmmAs for the “Pie Pipper”, I am not sure what is meant except perhaps it is really the Pied Piper, a fictional character that led rats out of a European town by use of a flute?RICK: I identify closely with all you stated above.“I keep my hands in intelligence – though no longer professionally. Once you’re a part of that, you never really leave it.”I believe that. I have done skip tracing for an attorney and am glad I developed those skills. Helps me now in searching for truth and reality. I knew a fella who claimed to be retired CIA. One night we had a couple drinks..well I did, he had more than a few.
Anyway, he proceeded to tell me a lot of really intense stuff and some less intense but still interesting as far as discussion.
About a year later some things he talked about were coming to light in media and the net….he had been retired for several years.
What was really sad in his case was that he was obviously an intelligent man, but he was so burnt out mentally and physically, and very aggressive.“At the same time – I believe, apparently like John, that our society, and indeed our government, has taken a turn for the worst. See… we the people, ARE the government. When a society’s morals break down, the government isn’t far behind. We’ve got this “entity” called “government” now, that has grown massively in power, while losing all common sense. The truth is a non-existent entity can’t HAVE common sense. It can only have bureaucratic ‘thoughts'”I agree with that statement as well, but I see a further influence in this. Media attempts to entertain instead of inform and so skews the focus of life in our country. Seems to me that a properly managed info show is entertaining. Hmmm, Art may have some far out people on sometimes, but he does inform > entertain.“a gnawing feeling in the pit of my stomach has been telling me that something is going to happen, and soon. I’ve felt this for about 5-6 years now. I can not put my finger on it,”For a long time I have interpreted a feeling that I am supposed to DO something (maybe better prepare for eventualities), but as of yet do not know what for sure. I too sense a shift somehow and there is at times a feeling of massive change on the horizon. I have learned to embrace change as good though. I have stagnated in my personal life before and even the downside to change can be welcome for everything seems to balance in the end result.“We see things like Mad Cow disease”Me too. I posted an opinion here on the bbs at Predictions>Terrorist Attack in US. I would like you opinion on this over there if you could be so kind.“John may or may not be “for real”… he has sparked an intelligence, well thought out discussion on the part of each and everyone writing here. We all are going to come away with a heightened sense of our own reality, mortality and perhaps even our own future.”I could not have said it better.“If John has been accurate on even a small portion of his future predictions (which by the way, he has made several, you simply have to carefully read the notes here) then my own thoughts follow along on the civil war, and even nuclear war. MY family will have a fallout shelter within a few months. ”At the least John seems to develop plausible, nay…probable analysis. I have this sometimes annoying habit of catching things based on the way they are phrased and I too caught several cue phrases that suggest predictions. I am not so fortunate as to have a shelter. I live 35 miles from downtown LA in a suburb. I would be atomized in a surprise attack. I plan to abandon the southland for someplce else if imminent attack occurs. I know a place that is likely not targetted for its non usefulness in a strategic strike. I plan to survive. Afterall, that would be a change and tragicaly facinating.Also Rick, in playing catch up in the posts two days ago, I did come across your link, just have to go check it out further.JOHN: That link you provided does indeed show pictures that were not on Doc’s page. Actually its better, Doc’s page has that annoying Comet Mouse thing that stalls my browser. It is interesting to note, for me anyway, that you use “archive” as a task label. I have used that myself over the years, but it is not a common phrase. Is it a label you use because of research?
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-16-2001 02:24 PM
((If John’s device is real .it belongs to another world altogether. another GE, therefore it would violate no known copy right laws here.or patent laws here.))(((Any government document can not be copyrighted. I could also argue that the manual “could” be from a future where it has become public domain but then again, it would mean proving I am a time traveler)))John,I like the way the thread is going here.I brought up the patent/copyright ideas because time travel does pose some interesting threats to intellectual property rights. We could argue that the future GE has no problem with the release of intellectual property into the public domain in 2036 and that they have no connection with our timeline. However it could still impact the present GE. It’s an interesting area to explore.How do the two Boards of Directors protect their company(s) and their shareholders? For the doubters, again, let’s “jus’ ‘spose” that the research is ongoing today. It will not be cheap even if underwritten by the government. Shareholders have a right to expect a return on their investment and that includes protecting the company from disclosure of “secret” documents. John has released post-R&D materials. They are details of a working model. But their release is at a time while the R&D is in process. GE would not want potential competitors (Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Westinghouse, etc.) to have access to any such material.What, if any, standing does a potential plaintiff have and how do they assert their rights? Where do they assert their rights (in what time and what court of law)?John, I still have my doubts about your machine based on the science – but there’s always the chance that I’m wrong. So, I’m not changing-up on you but posing some questions for you and everyone else to consider. If we view the two worldlines as separate nations that have contact with each other and to some extent affect each other, then the political-legal implications have some validity. How do we resolve these issues as we move forward?BTW – Government documents actually can be and are copyrighted. Here’s one example. The “California Building Standards” portion of the California Code of Regulations (Title 24) is copyrighted. This not only a government document, but it’s also the law of the State of California (go figure).Taken from: http://www.oal.ca.gov“Why is Title 24 (the California Building Standards) not included as part of this CCR Website?Title 24 of the California Code of Regulations, known as California Building Standards, contains copyrighted materials under the ownership of several model code publishers and cannot be provided here. The eleven parts of Title 24 that comprise California’s Building Standards are available for review at depository libraries, or for purchase in paper format from the copyright holders…”When private companies are contracted by the government to do research there are contractual agreements between the parties as to which, if any, items discovered, written, produced, etc. are the property of the government and which are the property of the private company
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-16-2001 02:31 PM
I find Rick’s attitude supportable as well. I think the youth are indeed ready to rumble. They are an angry and aggressive group to a large degree. It probably hasn’t helped to watch the love and peace generation turn into the biggest, most hypocritical sell outs of all time.As long as members of the 60’s generation take a yoga class once in a while they feel free to consume and pollute without a backward glance at the ideals they once held. (I am describing a good number of my friends. And, God help me, maybe myself as well)It must look obvious to the kids now that had we paid our ideals more than lip service the United States might be in better shape.It must make them bitter and also instill a good measure of hopelessness. My nephew is in a band that travels internationally and he comments on how the European youth do not have this hostility so present in all of the US cities he plays. So many of us are insulated in our little realities we just don’t feel those currents.One comment on infinite realities. Infinity is something we can’t wrap our brains around. We just don’t know what it means. We dismiss infinite realities as an impossible situation because it is as yet beyond the scope of the human brain. Mathematicians work on it as a “problem to solve”. Mathematically, finite is as impossible as infinite. Go figure!Lola
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-16-2001 03:14 PM
SmileDARBY: Indeed it is interesting you bring up the possible problems of the R&D phase of a project being affected by post R&D documents. One thing you overlooked is that while GE is in direct competition (in some areas)with the other companies you list, I cannot recall a single project that was soley developed by a single contractor in recent time. Even various projects for NASA are Boeing/Lockheed products if I am not mistaken.For Example: The B2 Bomber is a Northrop creation, they are Prime contractor….with sub-contracted systems developed in partnership with Lockhead and Boeing and scads of smaller companies as suppliers to these larger systems.What I am suggesting is that while GE may be the Prime Contractor for the C204, it is unlikely they manufacture the entire unit in house. Certainly most of the research will encompass GE solely, but Lockheed is the only one I can think of that can come close to producing useable products *almost* by themsleves through skunk works. My assertion here as it relates to your question is that even if these docs ‘from’ 2036 are genuine, the impact is unlikely to alter anythink based on copyrighted status, for many companies will have had a hand in the process.Besides, being that this is a separate world line from John’s, the point is moot. At worst the development of the C204 is accellerated. No problem there for me. Also, maybe in John’s world line a man introduced documents in 2001 that enabled the development of TT by 2034…hmmmLOLA: Hypocrisy, that is what you described in relation to many 60’s folk that sold out for the cash. I do not remember the 60’s very well…..I was not alive yet.
Posted by John Titor on 03-16-2001 05:28 PM
((BTW – Government documents actually can be and are copyrighted. Here’s one example. The “California Building Standards” portion of the California Code of Regulations (Title 24) is copyrighted. This not only a government document, but it’s also the law of the State of California (go figure).))My fault. It’s Federal documents.“”Federal documents and publications are not copyrighted, and therefore are considered to be in the Public Domain.””
http://www.benedict.com/basic/public/public.htmCourtesy of your web.
Posted by John Wade on 03-16-2001 08:21 PM
WinkI didn’t have time to read through all of John Titor’s statements. I do find it interesting that a high technology person from the near future who is into the dynamics of moving objects through space and time doesn’t even know the correct date for the Wright Brothers first motor powered heavier than air aircraft flight which is 1903.
He said 1910 which is way off.
Its only the most important date in the history of aviation and flight other than 1969, the date for Neil Armstrong’s touch down on the moon. The 1903 date is in all the encyclopedias and history of aviation books.To get the date wrong, and so totally wrong, to me is absolute proof that this person is a fraud. John
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-16-2001 10:47 PM
I do not know what the 60’s folks sold out of. Since I was around then, you had two choices, either go to Vietnam or go to college.
Take your pick, you had no other.
What I see out of the young generation is more time for the future to take hold since I lived through very turbulent times. I wonder how really mad the young folks would be if they were drafted, or well, go to college. Seems younger people we tried to make the world better for, do not appreciate it.
How about they do something better, before they find out that life doesn’t have to be nice!
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-16-2001 11:02 PM
Exactly, some enlisted because they knew otherwise they would be drafted. Excuse us if we decide to change our minds again and decide that drafting people would solve some problems in this country. Probably not, they are still convinced that the cure is college.
Certainly Norway or Denmark did not, they rescinded their Constitution for a couple of months last year or the year before because of problems I guess, then re-instituted it again. That has not happened in the US yet.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-17-2001 01:07 AM
John, Got up this morning and checked the web sites and where you posted your new pictures yesterday is this message:“Sorry, MSN Web Communities is temporarily unavailable while we update our service.
Our improved site will be up and running again as soon as possible.We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and encourage you to try back later.Thank you! ”hmmm….Is there NO WHERE safe???? hhehehehewhat a coincidence…huh?good news: Doc got his board back up and working…again.[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-17-2001 at 01:16 AM]
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-17-2001 01:26 AM
John,I just checked the site again because I couldnt beleive it was down. you better check it…some of your pictures are gone and they have a little box with a red X in it……………………just like Doc’s board had.wow…that IS weird.
hmmm….oh well…I am sure it will be fixed soon.
when you click on the pictures that are still there you get this message:“The server is temporarily unavailable. Sorry, the server is maxed out now. Please try again later when the pressure lets up.”Nothing like being there at the right time and right place huh?? heheeh well, got to go…[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-17-2001 at 01:32 AM]
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-17-2001 01:38 AM
hahahahah…went back again before I logged off and all the pictures are back up again.well…I guess they were just updating their systems.
Posted by Andrew Hubbard on 03-17-2001 03:55 AM
1) How big is your time machine?2) Is it possible that this world line ends at a different time to yours?3) Does the bible code foretell any events that happen between now and 2036?4) Is it possible to have a war between two different world-lines? for instance, mine and yours?5) Couldn’t you be the person single handedly responsible for not saving the man who finds the cure for cancer, or the person who finds out how to filter the sea water of nuclear pollution, by not giving us advice on survival? There has been a lot more people who have done great deeds for mankind than people that have nearly destroyed it.6) How fast is the average connection to the internet in the future? is it all broadband?
Posted by John Titor on 03-17-2001 05:23 AM
((heavier than air aircraft flight which is 1903. He said 1910 which is way off. Its only the most important date in the history of aviation and flight other than 1969, the date))I suppose its impossible to defend every possible combination of what people want to see. I don’t believe I said anything about the date for the first flight. All I did was pick a moment in history.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 11:40 AM
Dear John,Well, it had to have a ‘Dear John’ reply sometime.
Simply putting us in this multiple world-lines ‘theory’ to us is not known. Therefore, I can only relate to how the me in this world-line thinks about this multiple world-lines.
I am the boss of myself here, if anything, then the other mes in other world-lines that act worse than the me in this world-line do not have a chance. They can complain about it all they want, but since I am the boss here of me in this world-line, then I simply imply that I am killing off (those mes are actually killing themselves) those other world-lines where the me is worse, simply the me here will not put up with it.
Then the me here is creating new world-lines where the mes bosses all think that we edge slowly towards a coherent whole before most of the mes ‘goodly-mes’ die, leaving the dead mes in the other morally bad world-lines to not have any choice in the say of it ( and they should now know to repent).
Now, this is about as much sense as this multiple world-lines multiple realities means to me, here in this me world-line, and if no one including me can understand this new theory, than I have achieved my objective, understanding that the me in this world-line is still not sure that all this is happening at any given moment of time. This is the way to the ‘Source’ and all of the world-line mes can fight all we want to, but it will not do all of the infinite mes any good, I guess.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 12:04 PM
I will now try to refine the previous post.
Since in the energy flux of the mes, we are all blinking in and out of existence at the energy level of existence. Since most humans are not aware of this sub, sub, sub-atomic energy level, where we all form into a sorta one energy flux, the infinite mes are always having meetings for a brief energy moment of all mes.
Therefore, information of all of the mes can change world-lines at those moments of blinking in and the blinking out of existence of all the world-lines. This may lead to different part of mes exchanging with the exact same me that left this previous one world-line.
The reason that most of the time this will not occur is because the information is retained by the me in the world-line that briefly left for this microscopic energy meet of all the mes, and usually the same me that left one particular world-line will still usually be the same me that comes back to the same world-line.
This is why we would all try to fight if meeting for the other mes know that this is going on also, and most of the time they cannot interfere with the good mes in the good world-lines and are left to travel back to their other world-lines where they take it out on those world-lines.
Thus all of the mes can never be sure that part of some of the mes just did not happen to change minutely even if just for a moment. This all goes on continually, as a way of interaction of all mes in all world-lines.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 12:16 PM
Oh.Dissertion of RealityIt implies that the Universe and everything in the Universe of all universes in the superverse is nothing more than an form of energy. That the mass you imply that you see is nothing more at the sub, sub, sub, atomic level than energy, given form to appear to make it more appealing to us as a reality. This was discussed in books in the mid 80’s and I doubt if you will find anything about this subject on the Internet. Dealings about reality.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 12:34 PM
Also, since everything everywhere is energy, this has allowed communication between these different energy ‘states’ and has allowed the creation of self ‘consciousness’ or self ‘awareness’ by the constant filtering action of the now energy ‘states’ left to determine how these energy ‘states’ dealt with determining the best way to develop these concepts and all concepts in all dimensions of all time. I guess one could call this the “All”.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 12:47 PM
Now if no one is getting tired of this discussion. I will leave with the final thoughts and you can have all of your own thoughts.
Through the energy ‘states’ all meeting at all times, it is left to these moments of meetings to determine the most appropriate ways of getting to the “All-knowing” God figure we subscribe to. This does not imply that evil does not have its share of these moments, but simply in the end of the “All” if there is an end, then the figure of “God” has already won, and should evil still have its moments than it has been a bad decision on their parts of these energy ‘meetings’ of information.Well, something like that.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 01:00 PM
This implies the “soul” as being a self-healer, that may or may not correct itself, on the journey to the “All-knowing”.This implies that the journey can perhaps be as long and as knowing as it allows itself to be and that we are left with a “Wonderful God” and the “All” is of good design.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 01:24 PM
Not to ‘hog’ this thread, for I am busy, very busy.<b> I do not see the need for bomb shelters. Did I not state that it may do you no good.</b>
The fact that underground water sources, that exist, may be at least be partly shielded from such a blatant exchange of radioactive fallout, including the lead in it and other parts that may have to be filtered out, may leave a source of water, but that would depend on where you set up camp, when the stupidness ends if the radioactive event should happen.I leave you with your own thoughts about this.
Next:Petersen Guide to Wild Berries.Petersen Guide to Mammals on the North American Continent.Petersen Guide to Birds of the North American Continent.etc, etc, the end.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 02:58 PM
Conclusion of the “Perfect Symmetry of All”.As an example:In Einstein’s Equation there are four possible ‘states’ of reality.These four would be:+E = +(MC^2)-E = +(MC^2)+E = -(MC^2)-E = -(MC^2)The two middle results are of an imaginery numbering system.The signs are not minus, but negative.The two middle equations cancel out, forming a “nonexistence”. The other two equations form “existence”.E = MC^2-E = -(MC^2).Both exist.Now we must venture in to the imaginery worlds of existence.I leave you to your own thoughts.As Einstein stated “God does not play dice with the Universe”.To do other, may lead to irrational and implausible ‘states’ for existence, that can not ever be as been defined.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 03:05 PM
Oh, I beg for your pardon with all of this existence.It is all contained in the Chocolate Sandwich Cremes filled cookies or in a slice of Apple Pie or with a scoop of Ice Cream of your choice.This leaves anyone to deal with the anti-dimensions. We all conclude that dealing with anti-dimensions may be a waste of time, for we break down the “set” of mathematics (existence) to suit our own purposals.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 03:16 PM
Oh, I concluded with a new word “proposals”. Its a combination of “purpose” and “proposals”. I just did not know that I did that, but now I do.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 03:54 PM
Therefore, there is “infinite world-lines where morals equal zero” and a “anti infinite world-lines where morals equal zero”, which we do not use in the reality we subscribe to; and the two imaginary existence that does no good or evil to prove.
Therefore, there are more “All of yous” in existence, that can be proved mathematically, for to define “Mathematics”, you have to reduce every equation for its proof to zero equals zero. Equations must pass that test or you have no “Mathematics”. It would be reduced to absurtium.I beg for your pardon with all of the yous in all of existence.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 04:09 PM
Yous are left free, free, free, free, to receive, receive, receive, receive with all of “This”.
You have permission to receive.Yous may put yours “Evil Eyes” along with yours “anti-Evil Eyes” and yours “Imaginary Evil Eyes” along with yours “anti Imaginary Evil Eyes” to all of “This”.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 04:21 PM
There is then the possibility of “surround protection” that protects these clumps of energy, although I suppose, that if allowed to break down, that can happen also.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-17-2001 05:28 PM
John,Away the political-legal palaver and back to science for a bit…A few of our posts back in reply to my comment, “A simple E=Mc^2 is not the answer…you need real, not virtual mass” to form the singularity” you said “Not True” or close thereto.You’re still missing it, John, as we talk about singularities, Hawking Radiation and General Relativity.The universe that you described, that is, one where mass is accelerated to light speed and forms a singularity doesn’t exist. If that were so you have some really bad problems:
1. As you accelerated to light speed in your machine you and your machine formed a black hole2. From your perspective as you accelerated to light speed every other object in the universe formed a black hole due to your relative velocitiesOf course neither event occurred. The problem is the comic book view of General Relativity and the definition of mass in E=Mc^2.The word “mass” has two distinct and very different definitions:Mr = relativistic massMo = invariant mass (rest mass)Invariant mass is independent of v velocity.You are stating your singularity forms as a result of Mr = E/c^2…The formula is correct. The statement is not.The definition of rest mass is Mo = sqrt (E^2/c^4 – p^2/c^2)p=momentum! Momentum…motion…kinetic energy! Its not there in E=Mc^2.The comic book view that General Relativity somehow suggests that a if a body is accelerated to light speed that it will form a singularity is based on the formula “2GM/c^2”. That is, if the body is squeezed small enough by acceleration its radius will be smaller than the Schwarzschild radius surrounding it…it falls inside of the event horizon. This comes from very early interpretations of General relativity which ignored momentum and angular momentum…it was a static solution. Einstein himself stated that it applied to kinetic energy – not rest mass. There are many places where this can be verified. American Journal of Physics, 55, 739 (1987) which quotes from a 1907 interview with Dr. Einstein; “Out of My Later Years”, Einstein, Albert (1950), Philosophical Library, NY, Chapter 11 (“E=Mc^2”) note: I’m proud to possess a very nice copy of this tomb.Your science is still very wrong, John. (And the baseball players at Stanford should know better than to suggest that a VW would form in the accelerator – it would be an Audi)
Posted by John Titor on 03-17-2001 06:04 PM
EMMETT:((..where mass is accelerated to light speed and forms a singularity doesn’t exist.))I can’t find where I said that. Could you point that for me?
Posted by Anthony Reed on 03-17-2001 06:37 PM
Hi John,I went to see your pictures, the one is a bit dark. The red light arc. I liked the cutaway view but, will you be posting the picture of the key or legend that goes with the cut away view? Let us know when or if you will, please. thank you.A Reed.
Posted by Bob Marz on 03-17-2001 08:04 PM
John: You didn’t say “..where mass is accelerated to light speed and forms a singularity…” but you did chide Emmitt a few pages back saying “E=MCsquared can be solved for mass too.”[Edited by Bob Marz on 03-17-2001 at 08:07 PM]
Posted by John Titor on 03-17-2001 08:31 PM
((You didn’t say “..where mass is accelerated to light speed and forms a singularity…” but you did chide Emmitt a few pages back saying “E=MCsquared can be solved for mass too.”))
The speed of light squred is a constant number used to represent the variation between energy and mass. It does not imply that acceleration is required to change or represent the other.
Posted by Michael E. Hendrickson on 03-17-2001 08:36 PM
Hey, Cattoir, enough of your “cybernoise”. (How’s that for a neologism?) Get thee to an abattoir!,( metaphorically speaking, of course.) MH[Edited by Michael E. Hendrickson on 03-17-2001 at 08:38 PM]
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-17-2001 11:21 PM
John,The accelleration to light speed is implied in your reference to virtual mass. Virtual particles travel at light speed. I tried to give you an out there but you insisted that the mass was virtual.OK…here goes:John was born sometime between 1954 and 1956. He attended a west coast university, UC Davis, UC Berkeley or Stanford. He has an IQ of about 120 but was never a physical science major. His major was either cultural anthropology or general sociology. He may have dropped out in his senior year but his expected year of graduation was between 1975 and 1977. He took, as an elective, cosmology, introduction to astronomy or both. He did not take any upper division physical science. Neither of his parents graduated from a university but managed to provide a very stable life for him.His understanding of physics is based on 1970’s emerging physics but he didn’t keep abreast of the advances in the field until about six months ago. His new knowledge since that time is based on cursory internet searches so that he can respond to inquiries. He is very intelligent and a deceptively good debater even though his knowledge of physics is limited and a quarter of a century out-of-date.John, I laud your effort to have tried to take on such an onorous task as to debate both the social issues of futurism and the scientific debates of physics. Next time, though, bite off a small slice.[Edited by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-17-2001 at 11:27 PM]
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-18-2001 01:01 AM
Splendid work Emmett .Hey John,Took a look at your pictures of your Supposed “Time Travel Device” on the other message board.And usually I can pick whether it’s outwardly or just an ordinary piece of technology.(Partial Psychic remember )And I couldn’t pick up anything, no hidden impressions, no memories, all I could see was something just put together with no real purpose.Well in a way I did pick up something, maybe just 2 Army soldiers.Purpose unknown??Btw, Where did you steal it from ?Lately I have not had any Time Travel dreams. But visions I have. And non show you as a Time Traveler. Sorry .-J.C.
Posted by John Titor on 03-18-2001 05:57 AM
((The accelleration to light speed is implied in your reference to virtual mass. Virtual particles travel at light speed. I tried to give you an out there but you insisted that the mass was virtual.))The word implied is not a very stable platform to come up with a profile for my parents education but I applaud your attempt.
Well at least we aren’t seeing any more thermal and mass stabs in the dark. Interesting profile but you couldn’t slide me just 10 more points on the I.Q.?
Are you suggesting that in all cases there must be an acceleration component in the conversion of energy to mass or mass to energy?
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-18-2001 07:37 AM
<<<Are you suggesting that in all cases there must be an acceleration component in the conversion of energy to mass or mass to energy? >>>No. Just the present case.The bigger question is why you weren’t aware of the difference between relativistic mass (M sub-r) and invariant mass (M sub-o). You’ve consistently misapplied relativistic mass in situations where invarient mass is to be used. This isn’t new information…its a century old. Its a common mistake among pop-science buffs to misapply the terms. Michio Kaku wrote “Hyperspace” and Steven Hawking wrote “A Brief History of Time”. These were wonderful books so far as pop-science is concerned. They aren’t, nor are they intended to be, the foundation for PhD level physics discussions. You’re understanding of physics is at the level of those two books and I’m assuming that they are heavily drawn upon by you as source material.To continue…John has held several jobs during the past 25 years, but hasn’t held any one for more than about 8 years. He interviews well and has no problem getting hired. He annoys his co-workers and especially his supervisor. He’s a 60’s Northern California child and has a problem with authority. He works best when he works alone. He’s taught before, probably at the Community College level (Palomar Commuity College?) and maybe even at the State College level (SF State?). He still lives in the Bay area.[Edited by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-18-2001 at 08:11 AM]
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-18-2001 08:51 AM
Smileok Darby,heres my profile on John,(guessing on some of course!)hehehJohn is a 38 year old male. who has roughly around the same IQ I do and could probably pass a Mensa exam .He is a kind and caring individual who was chosen to go on a mission based on who he was related to and how easily he could get the person to cooperate.and his skills obtained at his university.He is able to work alone and under great pressure he is very calm. although he has a great sense of responsibility and morals he will defend himself and others when confronted to the point of taking a life if needed. He believes strongly in peoples rights and freedoms and his community.he cant stand lazy people who dont work.he is a good samaritan and will not pass by the wounded man laying on the side of the road. He feels accountable to God for his actions.He has the basic knowledge to operate and control his machine .although he is not a physicist he understands the basics in the way his machine operates and can make minor repairs if needed and he greatly exceeds in the area of mathematics.his favorite food is oranges.and he loves to sail.and read old magazines and books of life before the war.he likes to communicate with other people on the internet and gets joy out of just the communicating experience.sharing ideas and learning of history.and his parents are just as kind and wonderful as he is.-pamela
Posted by Bob Marz on 03-18-2001 09:19 AM
Hey, let me try this too!Re: PamelaPamela is a loyal person (with dark hair) who (while having an overly inflated opinion of Mensa) greatly admires John Titor and has been actively involved or consulting in the Titor memoirs on the ArtBell BBS message board, mainly on the posts concerning social issues.Pamela had a black and white Teddy Bear and though she’s passed through San Rafael many times has never stopped there. She once ate Chinese food in a small town called North Salinas, CA.My name is Bob, I have an IQ of 60, on a good day, and I am a member of Densa. And even I sensed there was a problem on the acceleration/mass singularity issue.[Edited by Bob Marz on 03-18-2001 at 09:23 AM]
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-18-2001 09:28 AM
SmileBob-HEHEHEHE you are funny!sincerely,pamelap.s. that chinese food was good too! heheh[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-18-2001 at 10:22 AM]
Posted by Randy Empey on 03-18-2001 10:46 AM
Emmit —Now, are you arriving at these ‘facts’ through the written word equivalent of phrenology — or have you actually played amateur detective and tracked our storyteller here down?If it is textual-phrenology, I would be interested in knowing what you’ve deduced from my words here.If its amateur detective work, I’m not certain how you are going to get people here to believe you.Lets assume for a moment that all john has said is true or at least accurate to his knowledge.They didn’t send back a physics professor, but a more down to earth type guy whose experience in the field would help with survival. Of course, he mentioned that having family in the right area was a major factor, but — there is a number of good reasons they wouldn’t send their equivalent of Stephen Hawkin back here.If you don’t know how your time machine works, you are pretty much stuck to the game plan — less improvision, less hotwiring, more possibility that the objectives will actually be achieved.I’d be suspicious if John’s concept of the physics involved made much more sense than it does now.Currently, there are two main possibilities from my POV — he is fake and is a gifted story teller (his tale is self-supporting in it incompleteness, a hard thing to achieve on purpose), or he is real and definitely not a top of the line 21st century physicist.Basically, tell us where you got your most recent profile for him — textual-phrenology, amatuer detective work, imagination? Where?[Edited by Randy Empey on 03-18-2001 at 10:53 AM]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-18-2001 11:57 AM
If it helps the ‘dogma’ of this forum topic, “they” have found traces of antimatter in this Universe.Even Enstein would know that both views of his equation is real.+ (E) = + (MC^2)and the anti-Universe– (E) = – (MC^2)Both exist.And I might add “just as expected by proven mathematics”.While we’re dicussing life and death, here is something playful:Death be with us and with us all.Ever lurking near or far.Death may be lurking just around the corner.Death, Death, Death.Its a wonder we are still all alive on this Planet, maybe it should read.Live be with us and with us all.Ever lurking near or far.Life may be lurking just around the corner.Life, Life, Life.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-18-2001 02:34 PM
Hey Pamela, that profile you made for John sounds just like me too . Except I’m not that Old, I am Anti-Time Travel, and I have a high keen sense in picking things up that are flawed, especially when someone claims to be from the future. Other then that, it’s just like looking right in the mirror .
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-18-2001 04:27 PM
Randy,Its not related to “written phrenology”. Its associated with linguistics and statistical modelling of the use of English words in this case. (And any detective work would definitely not be amateur <wink>Language, written or spoken, is broken down into regional dialects and even temporal dialects. That is, when and where you learned to speak and write a language will determine how you tend to use it (patterns, word frequency, colloquialisms, idioms, “buzz words” etc.) Someone born in the late 1920’s (my parents for instance) speaks the language differently than I…that is: upon very close inspection a distinct difference is seen.You can analyze the written word of a target and make some very reliable guesses about what, when and where they are (were). With a sufficiently large volume of written words you can even determine who the writer is (maybe). One use is to help validate newly discovered historical documents that are associated with an historical figure: is the document a forgery or real?John’s use of the English is very (and I mean VERY) baby-boomer typical. Give that a degree of confidence of 90%+. There is absolutely nothing in his use of the English language that is atypical of someone born in the United States between 1945-1975 (degree of confidence 99%).[Edited by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-18-2001 at 05:49 PM]
Posted by John Titor on 03-18-2001 05:33 PM
EMMETT:((John’s use of the English is very (and I mean VERY) baby-boomer typical.))I actually worked quite hard on that. It appears the physics questions have come to a hault but at least you’re not insulting about my mother anymore. Thanks.((There is absolutely nothing in his use of the English language that is atypical of someone born in the United States between 1945-1975 (degree of confidence 99%).))Perhaps you could raise your confidence level to 100% by going from 30 to say… 100 years; maybe 1930 – 2030?
The tools you use to have that much faith in my profile must be pretty good. I’m interested in what you compared me with. How exactly does a person born in 1998 who traveled across world-lines from 2036 use the English language?
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-18-2001 06:02 PM
The use of the language isn’t something you can practice so that you can change it. The linguistic synapses were formed by the time you were three years of age – by age 12 they were fully developed (which is why aphasic children over the age of 11 or 12 rarely learn to talk). Much like a polygraph, the analysis would reveal the forced use of the language via inconsistencies. There is no such anomaly in your syntax, frequency, idiomatic usage, etc. Northern California baby-boomer American Standard English with a slight Depression Era southeastern U.S. “accent” from your parents.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-18-2001 06:18 PM
The answer to the question, “How does a person born in 1998 use the language…?” is – who knows? Those persons are three years old today and just learning to speak. What we do know, however, is that during the course of their life they will learn how to talk by age 12…and the common usage of the language will be statistically different than what we use today.Everyone knows this instinctively. We can listen to a movie made in the 1960’s, for instance, and there is no doubt that we are listening to a movie made in the 60’s based on the dialogue. We also have a pretty good chance of figuring out that the script for a recently made 60’s style movie was written in the 90’s – the words seem forced, contrived, unnatural. The untrained person may not be able to put his or her “finger on it”, but they can tell the difference. It’s also possible to quantify the difference.Your new name is John “Boomer” Titor
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-18-2001 06:21 PM
Well now John, Golly! I would take that there as a compliment.oh nelly!yes siree! by george! You studied that area and I would say you “passed with fly’in colors!” “your as smart as a whip!”oops! excuse me not using terminology from my generation.WHATZZZZ UPPP??? (heheheeheheh)Gee wizz! Im so confused I almost forgot what generation I came from! what letter are we now? “X” “Y” “D”????-pamela
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-18-2001 06:51 PM
Come now Pamela, I think you shouldn’t take John’s defeats to personal. I mean there is a difference when you defend a friend, and when you stand up for someone because of devotion to a cause. I’m sure John can fight his battles just well on his own.After all, who else here has a cheerleader on the side supporting anyone in particular?No one, just you…So this question is for you John, do you feel like you need to be defended?-J.C.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-18-2001 07:01 PM
TalkingCome now Javier, I was just having fun with Darby!!But as for my cheerleading….Give me a “J”Give me an “O”Give me a “HN”whats it spell? JOHN!!! GO JOHN GO!heheheheh[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-18-2001 at 07:21 PM]
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-18-2001 08:30 PM
SmileMy bad Pamela, but I just call’em how I see’em .You know, just like actions speak louder then words.[Edited by Javier Cortez on 03-18-2001 at 08:34 PM]
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-18-2001 08:46 PM
Good thing your not an umpire.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-18-2001 09:15 PM
John,Darby said:”Your new name is John “Boomer” Titor.”you might have to take this name since he COPYRIGHTED your other name! (snicker..heehehheeh.. I know you are laughing John!)[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-18-2001 at 09:27 PM]
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-18-2001 09:53 PM
Nah, I’ll give John something to really laugh about .“Johnny has a girlfriend, Johnny has a girlfriend.”I know I’m LOL, heehe-Javier C.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-18-2001 10:10 PM
Well, hopefully the Russians do not screw up the total eclipse in the year 2017 passing through around the center line by Cleveland, Ohio.In fact, what can you do at the end of March of any year?Well, you can visit your local astronomical society and view all 110 Messier object in the sky at night.Only time during the year around when you can do this.Don’t worry, your eyes will adjust to the dark.Hooray, for the dark.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-19-2001 07:07 AM
Red faceAlthough I can appreciate the study of language and the determination of locality based on that, I would suspect that IF John is from the future, language pattern would have changed and in some ways not progressed too much insofar as patterns. John painted a picture of a world in distress for many years, and indeed our US. Looking back in my studies to WW2, there were many things that changed and progressed, but what did not change was language…..except slang terms.I have not noticed too many slang terms from John, but I have noticed some (real or not) difficultly with certain phrasing. I refer you back to earlier in the thread when questions arose from phrases involving ‘sell out’ type of things. I am not an expert on language, but aspire to be so I am not saying I am correct. I am just guessing that if John is from the future, and less focus is applied to money and greed, as he implied, phrases implying the selling and buying of goods as slang, would be confusing. That remains consistent.I am all for being skeptical, but approaching the language factor is not, to me, proof John is from our time. Conversely, it does not imply he is from the future either. His story actually supports the idea he is from the future when subtleties such as what I mention are look at. Go figure, we are still at the point of maybe-maybe not.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-19-2001 07:29 AM
John Wade: To get the date wrong, and so totally wrong, to me is absolute proof that this person is a fraud. JohnActually John, that doesn’t prove anything except he got the date wrong, and that he is human. Even historians do not remember every single, important date in history.For instance… can you tell me the exact date and time that the Lusitania was sunk? Can you tell me the exact day and time of D-Day? Can you tell me what day Louis Pasteur came up with the “vaccination”?I mean… think about it. You can certainly look those things up if you’re so inclined – and answer them, BUT, do you know them RIGHT NOW, without looking them up?Rick
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-19-2001 07:36 AM
Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire: Darby I liked your take on John’s background. Please do mine now.Rick
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-19-2001 08:12 AM
Red faceI mean, this hole talk iz gettin’ perty intense, dude.Any guesses? Where is that lingo from? Written language is interesting, but if I were to go in the past, I would study the language and customs. Much as one might study language and customs before travelling abroad. Sounds like I am defending John, but I need not do so. Here is the excerpt from Johns post on page 40:>EMMETT:>((John’s use of the English is very (and I mean VERY) >baby-boomer typical.))>I actually worked quite hard on that.John stated he worked on talking our talk. At the least, his story is still plausible and consistent. May I urge people to quote the phrases being used when being critical of them. Page numbers help. I am enjoying the speculation, but linguistics in this case are also subject to interpretation. My interpretation supports Johns assertion he is in florida and a native of there.Peace, Man.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-19-2001 08:13 AM
Interesting this “language” thing Darby came up with. I’m certain he is correct in his assessment of listening to a movie made in the 1960s, or ’50s. I know that I can personally tell you from the dialect of a movie without having seen the video running approximately which year the movie was made. Of course, there is a degree of inaccuracy in doing so.As far as dialect changes go, I’m sure that from decade to decade there are obvious changes and some not so obvious changes. There are terms I remember from when I was a kid that are used even now. There are things I’ve seen in movies made before I was born, that also are in use, even now.I do not see that this placing someone based on their language is an exact science.John/Pamela – Pictures. I have plenty of web space, and I expect the site to remain online (though is has gone down on and off over the past couple of years due to weird problems). My web site http://survival.anomalies.net and another site I assist in managing http://www.anomalies.net are both available for the video, as well as the pictures. I have the pictures already and will try to get them up on my site tonight – under the heading of “Time Travel”.If and when there is a video made available – I would be happy to convert that into a format (or several formats) for the computer and place it online for download. I would be more than willing to come film it independently myself – if John wishes (besides which, I would love to be there to see it for myself – if only to know for myself that it is real).So – John, you’re welcome to contact me privately and I will personally arrange my own travel, and bring my cameras and video the whole thing – with complete confidence that I will not reveal location, time, date or anything else until after your departure.About Albert Cattior… I’m wondering if Albert himself isn’t a time traveler as well.. and is suffering some sort of time dysphasia or something. <chuckles>Speaking of that – John, if you have time before you go.. are there any known mental disorders that are associated with time travel?Lastly: Someone mentioned (Sorry, can’t remember who now, or where I read it, but it was this forum) something about “shelters won’t be needed”. If I understood the gist of this statement, it was meant in the terms that if a nuclear attack becomes a reality, a shelter will be useless.That can not be further from the truth. I can tell you I am accutely aware of what atomic/thermonuclear weapons are capable of doing – and what they are NOT capable of doing. I also know that depending on the attack and the type of weapon, not only is an attack survivable, placing yourself and your loved ones, as well as a few weeks worth of food in a fallout shelter will protect you from fallout radiation.My web site has survival information on it regarding such things, and believe it or not, it comes from the US Government. So, even they believe nuclear strikes are survivalable. They just do not press that publicly, because 1) they do not want to panic people (because if the government says you should have a shelter, conspiracy theorists suddenly become convinced the government is trying to warn us without warning us, it upsets natives of other nuclear powers into believing WE will start a war – etc). 2) Doing so legitimizes the use of nuclear weapons to everyone, thus making it more of a possibility they will be used without a second thought to doing so. 3) It will raise the price of land throughout the United States. Precived “safe zones” would go up in value – especially with pre-existing shelters. I’m sure there are other reasons I haven’t thought of, but suffice it to say that the government DOES believe nuclear war is survivable. Just not by everyone.I believe it as well. I’m not one of those guys that wants to be around for the blast. With my luck I would get blinded and blown around, but not killed outright, leaving me blinded and crippled and not able to fend for myself, left to die miserably. I’d prefer a fighting chance. Give me a basement, some water and a little food and I will make due. Don’t count the human race off as defeated the minute the nukes start flying. We’ve been around a long time, and will continue to be around for many more centuries.The question is not, can or will the human race survive. The question is how WELL will they survive?Rick[Edited by Rick Donaldson on 03-19-2001 at 08:18 AM]
Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-19-2001 08:32 AM
A total eclipse in Cleveland in 2017? WOW!! Finally something our fair city will be famous for. By the way, we put out our “Flaming River” back in 1969 for those of you who think it is still on fire.We better get busy writing out invitations if we only have 16 years left.
Posted by Bob Marz on 03-19-2001 09:04 AM
Darby, As brilliant as I think you are, I just can’t buy it that your linguistic analysis is all THAT comprehensive and precise. You have no voice inflection, no body language or handwriting patterns to supplement the analysis. Only his printed texts. And I think a smart person, intuitively aware of the more common giveaways, could take care to maintain a neutral linguistic demeanor. I suspect, if you do have a high success rate with your method, it’s because you yourself have psychic abilities (that are being sublimated through your more mundane rationalization). Your leftbrain is doing a wonderful job explaining what your rightbrain is doing. The breadth of your insights suggest, otherwise, an external source of information.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-19-2001 09:07 AM
Rick,You haven’t submitted enough written material to use statistically. Boomer has submitted materials all over the net – thousands and thousands of words. Its not magic or para-psychology. Its simply statistics. Sorry.
Posted by Randy Empey on 03-19-2001 10:20 AM
Question:quote:Basically, tell us where you got your most recent profile for him — textual-phrenology, amatuer detective work, imagination? Where?Answer:quote:Its not related to “written phrenology”. Its associated with linguistics and statistical modelling of the use of English words in this case. (And any detective work would definitely not be amateur <wink>Of course I am leaving out a lot, but I’d like to shine the hypothetical laser pointer at these two things.So … its not phrenology of the written word, and not amatueur detective work, and we are led to think that it is not imagination or non-amatueur detective work.In fact, it is heralded as an off-shoot of modern linguistics and statistical modelling of the usage of English words.If that is not at least simmular to textual-phrenology, I am misunderstanding things.Which is completely possible.But it involves statistics, which I’ve always had a superstitious disbelief in.You have to be very careful to qualify your results. Can you establish a one to one relationship between certain subsets of attributes and certain subsets of people? Not absolutely. But you may be able to come close enough to make your 90% probable guesses — but the amount of work that would really take would be staggering.If you undertook it, then I salute you. But still respectfully choose to view this as only one of many possibilities here, with no special status.The sample sizes involved (that I am aware of) are simply not large enough to lend the confidence levels you are implying.It would take the analysis and comparison of billions of words from millions of reasonably ‘representative’ individuals, and then a relativily large number of words from the target.At least thats my intuition, and I’ve yet to see proof or convincing evidence hinting strongly enough to the contrary.John simply hasn’t written enough words here. Perhaps you’ve dug through his trash and analyzed his snail-mail correspondence . .. making your sample size bigger, and more representative … but would it be big enough?Way too many variables to play with here, even for the mythic strengths of ‘statistics’.Language usage is mutable. Upbringing and other factors of environment have effects. But so do conciouis decisions while composing, the nature of the form of communication, the subject’s emotional state at the moment, the proximity of a thesaurus, etc..At the moment, ‘he’ could be a accidental persona who is the results of thousands of chimpanzees in a labs across the usa, involved in a program that posts the results from their typing on gov. issued typewriters onto the internet, when it seems to make sense. The timing, and appearant ‘on topic’-ness is then just a weird coincidence.That is just as likely as any of the profiles presented so far.Explain why this isn’t phrenology of the written word — or diff. enough from phrenology that we should pay attention to it.Maybe we should devote a thread to such ‘profiling’ … where gurus like yourself analyze all comers ….—–http://www.dictionary.com says:quote:phre·nol·o·gy
Abbr. phren.
The study of the shape and protuberances of the skull, based on the now discredited belief that they reveal character and mental capacity.—–How many days left here John?If they started a ‘countdown’ would it embarrass you or feed your ego?[Edited by Randy Empey on 03-19-2001 at 10:50 AM]
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-19-2001 11:25 AM
I thought Darby’s observations interesting. Since I read his post I have tuned into a couple of old movies; 40’s or 50’s stuff. The differences can be subtle but they are there. I will now be listening for those linguistic time bubbles whenever I hear conversation or a movie. It is especially fun listening to my nephews in their early twenties. I agree that during crisis those sorts of changes may happen more slowly (with less media input) but I should think John’s phrases and slang would more resemble that of my nephew’s than my own. Also, I don’t understand why it would have been important to study the nuances of the time for John’s particular mission. Certainly, a turn 1900’s era gentleman could carry on a conversation today without being suspected of being a time traveler.This is an interesting and educational way to view John’s claims. Far superior to mindless bashing or searching for stock tips. I bet John enjoys this scrutiny as well. After all, what does he have to loose if we believe him or not. This board is hardly big time exposure.Darby, do you mind saying what you do for a living? It seems your background must be varied to have insight into both linguistics and physics. How about a profile of yourself.Lola[Edited by Lola Montez on 03-19-2001 at 11:30 AM]
‘Darby’:I’m not really saying your linguistic-phrenology, or whatever you call it, has no validity — just that its validity is yet to field-proven to the masses here, or at least myself.Why don’t you share the specifics and your reasoning, as you share the results?Where does your data come from, exactly.What expertise do you draw upon?Is this like Javier’s intuition — which would be perfectly fine, as long as your honest about the source of your knowing, and don’t expect us to believe you implicity with out a good ‘track record’.Or is this some scientific method you’ve troubled yourself to learn — which would also be perfectly fine, as long as you share your work, if you expect to be believed.Question to John:Does this linguistic phrenology type ‘technology’ have a prominent existance (that you know of, of course) in your native time?[Edited by Randy Empey on 03-19-2001 at 11:54 AM]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-19-2001 01:00 PM
Red faceHere’s a couple of hyperlinks:http://www.physics.ucsb.edu/~jpierre/strings/links.htmhttp://www.treasure-troves.com/physics/about.htmlComputer: Security retina scan complete.……..Dr. Carol Markus: Project Genesis … A Proposal to the FederationSpock: Carol MarkusKirk ……YesDr. Carol Markus: Exactly what is Genesis? Put simply, Genesis is life from lifelessness. It is a process whereby molecular structure is reorganized at the subatomic level into life-generating matter of equal mass.……Spock: It literally is Genesis.Kirk: The power of creation!……Bones: Dear Lord, do you think we’re intelligent enough to, suppose, what if this thing was used where life already exist?Spock: It would destroy such life in favor of its new matrix.Bones: This new matrix! Do you have any idea what you’re saying?Spock: I was not attempting to evaluate its moral implications, Doctor. As a matter of cosmic history, it has always been easier to destroy than to create.Bones: Not any more! Now we can do both at the same time. According to myth, the Earth was created in six days, now watch out, here comes Genesis, we’ll do it for you in six minutes!Spock: Really Doctor McCoy, …you must learn to govern your passions. They will be your undoing. Logic suggests….Bones: Logic?! My God, the man’s talking about Logic, we’re talking about Universal Armageddon! You green blooded, inhuman.Bridge to Admiral Kirk: Admiral, sensors indicate a vessel in our area, closing fast.Kirk: What do you make of her?Bridge: Its one of ours, Admiral, its Reliant!Spock: Reliant?Kirk: Try the emergency channels…….Picture Mr. Sajvek.Kahn: Slow to one half impulse power, lets be friends.Movie: 1982, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-19-2001 01:26 PM
What’d that have to do with anything? Unless you were talking about the moral implications of time travel.Linquistic phrenology.. I think it is a crock.Tell you what my friend, since I haven’t written enough here, please, feel free to use my web site as your model. There are literally gigabytes of my writing there. Articles, news, views, op-ed… even a biography. But, it doesn’t tell all. I suggest though, you not read the bio if you have any propriety regarding this so-called ability to predict where people have been in their lives using their words as a guide.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-19-2001 01:43 PM
Lola,Some very brief notes on my background would contain reference to a degree in Experimental Psychology (including psycholinguistics and neuro-physiology). Psycholinguistics is the study of the psychology of speech – phonetics (This is Noam Chomsky’s work). Professionally the notes would include work in the intelligence community including de-briefing.Phrenology, the work of the German scholar Franz Joseph Gall (very early 19th Century), is a word that has too many negative connotations that have little to do with Herbert Spencer’s work in evolutionary biology. It dredges up pictures of Gestapo “scientists” seeking out Jews based on skull and facial knots, ridges and shapes or 19th Century English detectives “identifying” criminals by similar methods.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-19-2001 01:51 PM
Thumbs upJohn is a White male of 38 years who may or may not be a time traveller. He shows a well worked knowledge of Time based technology. He claims to not be a scientist, and understands how his machine is supposed to work.By his own claim, he has more documentation, but chooses not to share it. This makes sense to me, for if I were a TT, I would not give out more than I chose to. In fact, here on the bbs, we each can simply give just the details of what we want others to know. In subtle ways John has given predictions and even 1 date that I came across. This does not validate Johns status, but in the coming days to years we all shall see.In a nutshell, methods such as linguistic phrenology may have some credit, but no evidence of how that ‘science’ was utilized in the ‘john model’ has been given. That leads itself to be just as known as Johns real status as a TT or not.I suggest that those with the gutteral umph to do it, go back. Read ALL of Johns statements. Put them together. Analyze what was written. Not for Regional specificity, but for the small details that were scattered about. If not read carefully, one might miss things stated.Bash me if you like, but I am at a point were I sincerely HOPE John is a TT. None of us can say yeah or nay really as a point of fact, and if at this point John said, ” Oh, btw, I am just a fella from Little Rock Arkansas “, can that really be absolved as true? Not really.Fun Ain’t It?
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-19-2001 02:09 PM
Spock: Admiral, scanning an energy source on Reliant, a pattern I’ve never seen before.Kirk’s Son, David: Its the Genesis Wave.Kirk: What?David: They’re on a build up to detonation.Kirk: How soon?David: We encoded four minutes.Kirk: We’ll beam aboard and stop it.David: You can’t.Kirk: Scotty, I need warp speed in three minutes or we’re all dead!Uhara: No response, Admiral!Kirk: Scotty, ….. Mr. Zulu, get up out of here, best possible speed.……..Bones: Are you out of your Vulcan mind! No human can tolerate the radiation that’s in there!Spock: As you are so fond of observing, I am not human.Bones: You’re not going in there!Spock: Perhaps, you’re right. What is Mr. Scott’s condition? …… I’m sorry, Doctor, I have no time to discuss this logically! ……..Remember!Movie: Star Trek II, The Wrath of Kahn
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-19-2001 05:45 PM
Anyone notice how quiet John has become in the recent days? It happened just around the time Darby was commenting on his use of his supposed 2036 language .Just call’em how I see’em.John you’ve done this Machiavellian routine so much, it’s predictable now. Whenever anyone comments on anything you don’t know how to answer or that might expose you, you go quiet and answer back in a few days. And make the excuse of being busy archiving, when you do fine an answer to it.If that doesn’t spell fraud and opportunistic traits, then a lot of people are blind and can’t obverse the obvious.-Javier C.
Posted by Anthony Reed on 03-19-2001 06:06 PM
Javier,John said he would be leaving in the spring, that officially is only 2 days away. If you were packing to go somewhere (time travel or not) you have to get things ready don’t you?And you are on the internet, there is no such thing as obvious.Reed
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-19-2001 06:34 PM
Are you new here Anthony?John said on March 10th, that he would be leaving in 30 days. That would make it about April 10th or 11th.I will be leaving at around the same time, and may return in about a month or so hehe.
Posted by Kevin Spooner on 03-19-2001 06:44 PM
ArrowAnd now we know why the christ-force had to return three days after bodily death. Maybe, just maybe he came back to his apostles not owing to some predestined miracle, but because he was getting such a heavenly headache…And perhaps thereafter said to them “Listen here you sqaubling bunch of know-it-alls, you-too Judas! Stop infighting amongst each other about who’s right, who’s wrong, what your instinct or intellect is telling you, just get out there. You’ve got all you need now to get on with the job.”Or maybe the christ force said, Hey! Is not cool dude. Watzup da matter? Gotta cold ur sumtink? Getcha out mun! Catch ya de later!Who, and I mean, WHO really really cares.More the point, if I was JT the TT person, I would be thinking What the H*LL – I’ve tried but right now I just don’t care. Off to catch my broomstick and that’s all that matters right now.Later (dude. hehe).
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-19-2001 06:56 PM
Javier,Did John really say that?((John said on March 10th, that he would be leaving in 30 days. That would make it about April 10th or 11th.)))Hey! that is MY vacation week too! we could like all have a big party or something down there!!! heheheh
Posted by Tom Young on 03-19-2001 08:41 PM
QuestionLast week I was looking at the images that JT had uploaded onto MSN and noticed a simple typo in the operations manual page showing a diagram of the Tipler sinusoid field produced by his device where in the diagram, item 10 (Negative Time Event Horizon) had been transposed as item 11 in the diagram, though the item value was printed correctly in the legend. I didn’t think anything of it until I looked at the same page as found on Ricks site and saw that the typo was gone from the page. I’m not trying to play pixel person or anything, but unexplained edits to the images that have been posted do lead me to wonder what other changes are being made. (Then again, a time machine might just turn out to be a copywriters best friend!)
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-19-2001 09:55 PM
Bob,Really – its a lot more mundane than that (psychic ability). The profile is truly based on what Boomer has written and posted. Its statistics, analysis and interpretation.Voice stress, handwriting analysis, non-verbal communication (body language) isn’t part of this. Those criteria are generally used for truth testing. I don’t have any interest in directly challenging Boomer’s veracity. He and I are having fun with a battle of wits. Cat-and-mouse rhetoric as it were.I’m getting ready for the next round…Major Boomer,What was the elapsed time (indicated on your machine’s internal chronometer) for the trip back to 1975?
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-19-2001 10:47 PM
Tom,Good catch. We’ll make you a questioned documents tech yet.Look even closer. Upper left hand corner legend: you can still see the faint cut-and-paste edge outlined on the paper (not computer cut-and-paste, literal scissors and glue cut-and-paste) and a finger smudge where the ink ran onto the paper when the pasted section was smoothed. Same-same for the center title – which is also warped.Take a close look at the technical drawing. Look especially at the left and right end perspectives. Not the same – very poor quality CAD for a billion dollar project.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-19-2001 11:03 PM
Hey Pamela, where’s your buddy Johnny? Can’t he come out and play?Darby is calling for him too . You go Darby.It’s not me this time John, so you’re going to have to try a whole new approach. With that said, I am sure we are to expect something new from you in about a day or so .See you real soon ,Javier C.P.S. Sure, where should we all take our vacation? Me, you, and John “I wanna be a Time Traveler someday” Titor, wanna go off to?Oh and John btw, I suggest you leave that piece of junk you made in your garage at home, cause I’ll break it if I see it . Have a nice day.
Final Comments
I went through and edited for readability and for content. I have to tell you all, the sniping and picking on the John Titor character soon grew old. It made me just want to give up and toss all this away.
I really don’t know if John Titor is real or not. However, what I do know is this…
Vehicles and people enter and leave our reality all the time.
The only (admitted) report of one such traveler (that I am aware of, at this time) is this John Titor character.
I am unfamiliar with his technology.
Though I can follow and understand the theory behind it.
He is also the only one who seemingly understands the true nature of reality in the MWI.
This information, as tiresome as it is, is placed her for others to peruse and study.
Sixth of multiple Posts
This post is the sixth of a series of posts related to John Titor. The other posts are;
Conclusion
Our reality is not what we think it is. I am not the only person who has disclosed that there are others, and other organizations that can enter and leave our reality at will. Another person who made this claim went by the name John Titor.
Only where as, I claim to be part of MAJestic and was employed as part of human sentience management, John Titor claimed to be a person who was part of another world-line. Together, we both claim that the MWI is real, and we utilize it to perform dimensional egress for our own purposes.
I claim that it is a tool that is used to manage human sentience evolution.
John Titor claims that he utilized the time variable to conduct acquisition activities in the past.
He claimed that on that world-line, the United States was fundamentally different after a rapid series of events in the late 1990’s. He claimed that he needed to perform some acquisition of certain technical devices through the use of the time-variance option in dimensional travel.
This is a multi-part post.
Take Aways
John Titor claimed to be a time traveler.
He utilized dimensional travel to move in and out of the baseline reality.
As such, he visited our world-line to acquire some technology needed on his world-line.
That technology was produced in “our” past. Thus the idea that it involved “time travel”.
MAJestic Related Posts – Training
These are posts and articles that revolve around how I was recruited for MAJestic and my training. Also discussed is the nature of secret programs. I really do not know why the organization was kept so secret. It really wasn’t because of any kind of military concern, and the technologies were way too involved for any kind of information transfer. The only conclusion that I can come to is that we were obligated to maintain secrecy at the behalf of our extraterrestrial benefactors.
MAJestic Related Posts – Our Universe
These particular posts are concerned about the universe that we are all part of. Being entangled as I was, and involved in the crazy things that I was, I was given some insight. This insight wasn’t anything super special. Rather it offered me perception along with advantage. Here, I try to impart some of that knowledge through discussion.
Enjoy.
MAJestic Related Posts – World-Line Travel
These posts are related to “reality slides”. Other more common terms are “world-line travel”, or the MWI. What people fail to grasp is that when a person has the ability to slide into a different reality (pass into a different world-line), they are able to “touch” Heaven to some extent. Here are posts that cover this topic.
John Titor Related Posts
Another person, collectively known by the identity of “John Titor” claimed to utilize world-line (MWI egress) travel to collect artifacts from the past. He is an interesting subject to discuss. Here we have multiple posts in this regard.
From the late 1990’s until around 2001, the Internet was “rocked” by the sudden appearance and subsequent disappearance of a Mr. John Titor. This person claimed to be a “time traveler” by using inter-dimensional travel.
He was rapidly dismissed as a hoax, in unity, by all the major debunking organizations, and his posts mysteriously disappeared off the Internet. Since then, all the sources that he posted on all found that their files related to John Titor were all corrupted and could not be reclaimed.
That was the case for over a decade.
Then, in 2014, a number of private individuals managed to piece together independently saved dialogs relating to John Titor. They constructed numerous websites that hosted these reclaimed dialogs, and posted them on the Internet for others to view.
Metallicman is one such website.
Presented here are recovered posts from the Internet collected in 2014. It is not known if any posts have been deleted or altered. They are presented as they were found by the author.
Important Warning
The information within this series of posts are speculative. I have no factual information if this John Titor is what he claimed to be. It is presented herein as the only (or maybe, one of the only) sources that claim to be associated with the vehicles that pop in and out of our reality from time to time.
He was, as far as I know, never associated with MAJestic in any way.
Original John Titor Posts – Part 5 – Transcripts A
Here are the original John Titor posts from the Post2Post Art Bell Forum. Obtained from HERE.
John Titor dialog is in normal text in brown color, text by others are italicized.
When referencing other non-Titor questions, green color is used.
Purple color is for non-related text.
Metallicman comments are in red color.
Metallicman corrected spelling and some punctuation to make the text easier to read and understand. For unedited text, please refer to the source.
Posted by John Titor
John Titor – I am from 2036
Post to Post (http://bbs.artbell.com/index.php)
– Time Travel (http://bbs.artbell.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=25)
— I am from 2036 (http://bbs.artbell.com/showthread.php?threadid=1203)
Posted by John Titor on 01-27-2001 12:45 PM
Greetings. I am a time traveler from the year 2036. I am on my way home after getting an IBM 5100 computer system from the year 1975.
My “time” machine is a stationary mass, temporal displacement unit manufactured by General Electric. The unit is powered by two, top-spin, dual-positive singularities that produce a standard, off-set Tipler sinusoid.
I will be happy to post pictures of the unit.
Posted by Mike Klinge on 01-27-2001 03:01 PM
Hi,As you are well aware of, I am sure, people can post anything here, whether or not it is true. What proof do you have that you have traveled through time? Rest assured that I want to believe you, but why should I believe?Thank you for indulging me.
Posted by John Titor on 01-27-2001 09:15 PM
I have been communicating online with others who are interested in time travel.
Also, for more information:
http://www.p3n.org/pn120100.shtml
[Edited by Mary Rowland on 01-28-2001 at 03:04 PM]
Posted by Kevin Spooner on 01-28-2001 03:23 AM
QuestionJust an obviously curious note: If you were returning from the 1970’s to 2036 (um that’s 66 years)…. and you are using a time-travel machine…. why on earth would you just per chance stop in 2001? Let alone have a web page.Answer welcome – I didn’t know time travel had resting stops between scheduled trips? Hey – I’m not going to disbelieve on that basis, just curious.
Posted by John Titor on 01-28-2001 06:35 AM
My initial flight was from 2036 to 1975 (61 yrs). I then went from 1975 to 2000 (25 yrs.) Later this year, one of two favorable windows will open and I will return to my 2036 (35 yrs.) I am here now for personal reasons. The web page is not mine. I have been speaking online for about three months and the page is a collection of the various documents and pictures I have sent to other individuals.
Also, I realize there is no way for anyone to believe me with absolute certainty so I hope I’m at least entertaining. You may be interested to know that even in 2036, there are a large number of people who don’t believe in time travel. Are you sure the world is round?
Posted by Theresa Wood on 01-28-2001 07:33 PM
I read the q&a on the link posted and I found it to be very interesting. Whether you are a time traveler or not is not relevant. This is a very probable scenario of what our future holds if things continue on their present course.
Sometimes we need to step out of a situation in order to see it more clearly. A time traveler from the future “seeing” the events of the day helps in understanding the current social/political trends. You hit it square on the head, in my opinion.
I enjoyed reading it, thanx!
Posted by Jeret Schisler on 01-28-2001 07:40 PM
WinkJohn, Can you please tell me some lotto numbers for 2036? I’ll be ready to retire around that time. if I’m still alive. Thanks
Posted by Kevin Spooner on 01-29-2001 02:45 AM
UnhappyI visited your web page and it immediately struck me with those “photo’s” you claimed to have put there or made available or believe in… mind if I ask something to clear my logical thinking mind…Why is it, given that laser printers etc can print up to 2,400cpi, (or at least 600cpi) and pictures can be scanned at god only knows what (9,600+cpi) why your text and graphics appear to be 1950’s reproduction of a faint typewriter in need of a ribbon replacement (God I havn’t used the word ‘Ribbon’ since…. hmmm.)And then there’s the fact that given the obvious typewriter appearance, the ‘text’ sure wasn’t made in 2036.Oh… please don’t use the “oh – technology went by the board by then.” approach cause it won’t stick.Please understand that I have examined time travel and parallel world theories extensively and therefore only seek to clarify these points with you.
Posted by John Titor on 01-29-2001 07:47 AM
Please keep in mind the web site is not mine and I apologize for the poor quality of the files. The photo you saw was taken by me with a Polaroid camera manufactured here. The other documents were duplicated by placing a book onto a copy machine at a packaging and shipping store and then scanning and saving them.
As for the printing technology in 2036, you may be surprised at how many people use typewriters however I agree the documents were probably not created that way.
I too am very anxious to hear your thoughts and questions on time travel / gravity displacement and any comments on the Everett Wheeler Graham model.
Posted by Lee Heggy on 01-29-2001 12:14 PM
2036 sounds more like 1836 with all the ‘good stuff’ of modern life thrown in. Personally I prefer our current time-line even with all of it’s excess and decadency it’s an exciting time to be alive and I can still multiply and divide in my head.
Posted by John Titor on 01-29-2001 03:48 PM
Although the documents posted were printed from a computer printer, is it really that hard to believe that manual typing is just a bit more common in thirty years? After the war, many things like manual printing machines, bicycles, sailboats and hand tools were valued a great deal. I have noticed more people in California are installing wood burning stoves.
I realize my claims are a bit ridiculous but my intent is not really to be believed. However, if I had an opportunity to talk to a time traveler, I might ask questions like: How exactly does the singularity sensor measure the expansion of the inner event horizon or why does the reality of multiple worlds support the religious dogma that there are no good or bad people just good and bad decisions or what were the political motivations that changed the U.S. Constitution?
Posted by Mike Kolesnik on 01-29-2001 06:38 PM
Red faceHo hum…ANOTHER time traveler.Well, time to run him thru the BS o’meter.Did you ever notice how time travelers never specify events that happen in the NEAR future? As in a week to a month or so. The reason why is because then people could check on these “events” to determine if they have happened or not.Well John, answer a few questions that any person from the future should know (or at least have easy access to)
1. What was the final death count in the recent India earthquake?2. What is the “Ginger” (IT) invention?3. Who wins the Stanley Cup (Hockey) this year?
Posted by Kimberly Nease on 01-29-2001 07:26 PM
AngrySuper questions. This “time traveler” should have NO trouble at all answering these questions, especially the GINGER one so get cracking John.Kim
Posted by John Titor on 01-29-2001 09:10 PM
How do you figure I have easy access? I can appreciate your skepticism but I must admit I’m confused by your choice of questions. I fail to understand why a time traveler would be expected to know the details you ask.
Right now, do any of you know the details of the first week in February for 1970?
For that matter, could you tell me from memory if it rained in Atlanta last week?
Is a sports almanac a required or expected piece of equipment for all “time machines”?
At least you didn’t ask the standard “what stocks should I buy” question. Interesting that no one ever asks which stocks to sell. I’m sure my answers will be quite unsatisfying but you should know I do not want your unshakable faith nor do I think anyone should give it so easily if a “time traveler” were able to answer those questions.
In fact, over this medium, it’s impossible to prove I’m a time traveler, therefore, it’s impossible to believe. Actually, I depend on that a great deal so I don’t have to worry about being picked up by your friendly law enforcement officers. What do you think they would do with two micro-singularities?
So here goes…
(1). I have no idea.
(2). It looks like some sort of motorized scooter. What do you think “IT” is?
(3). I know this one but I think it would be unfair and immoral for anyone to win a bet based on something I’ve told them.
Posted by Stephen McKay on 01-29-2001 10:16 PM
I’m sure it would be unfair and immoral if we had certainty, but the truth is anyone placing a bet on your answer would still be gambling on whether you are in fact from the future. Spill the beans!
Posted by Kevin Spooner on 01-30-2001 04:57 AM
TalkingI can understand the ethics at hand here quite well. If you know, for instance, that someone is going to have a fatal accident, or meet with an unpleasant incident at a specific time, would you tell them the specifics? I wouldn’t. If you knew when Microsoft was going to break, or where the next and largest ever earthquake was to hit – would you tell? There is the matter of ethics indeed. Who want to force life-changes that are not natural to their path? Paths which intermingle with all other life, indeed creation played out on this earth. No indeed you wouldn’t.Yet if a person already knew, as I do, that they are in the history books, as I am, but not known widely or available within the community yet – there is a simple challenge. And no – I am not talking from any egotistical sense – just one of knowing. However, whether time travelers wish to demonstrate based on the above is up to them. I would certainly be forthright in my confirmation to them (private email is allowed given the circumstances.)But gentlemen and ladies… it also seems that certain ‘time travelers’ traverse linear time whereas others appear to travel cross-dimensionally. Interesting and one worth discussion.
[Text in bold are my highlights. Metallicman.]I personally challenge said time traveller(s) to demonstrate their proof by confirming to me what is already known to me as per my own history but not yet in public circulation.And I should add given that scenario – you can not bend or manipulate my future path because you would not be telling me anything I did not already know. Fun aye ???
Posted by John Titor on 01-30-2001 06:21 AM
(To the moderators: I apologize for the links, I understand and it won’t happen again. I will be happy to submit the same material if there’s a place to post it here.)
In my experience, when it becomes necessary to convince someone what I do for a living the only way to do that is to be related to them. Everything else is immediately written off as a parlor trick, even if they’re standing in front of a cooling distortion unit and I show them a dollar bill with the year 2029 on it.
In the last few months, I have had numerous extended conversations online and there are quite a few things I’ve said which can easily be checked out but haven’t. I get no pleasure out of being right when it comes to CJD disease, war in the Middle East or suffering people in far away lands. There’s nothing like the look on someone’s face when you tell them 100,000 people will be dead tomorrow. In my travels, I have discovered that most people really don’t want to know about the future because if its different than what they want it ticks them off. Actually, I don’t blame them.
The means by which I travel in time is very physical. I require a “machine” to do it. It weighs about 500 pounds and gets quite hot. I do not own it and I did not build it. Within limits, I will be happy to discuss how it works and how “future” science thinks time works. No we have not completed string theory yet but (N-10) seems to work pretty well.
As far as the future goes, your world-line is about 2.5% different than mine. This is a roughly cumulative measurement based on my arrival in 1975. As far as I can tell right now, you are headed toward the same events I would call “my history” in 2036. However, the very nature of time travel states that every worldline is unique and you are very much in control of what you do and how you get there. Heck, the fact that I’m here makes it different from mine.
I have nothing to sell, and there is nothing I want anyone to do. For all other time travelers out there, I have no tests for you and I would enjoy discussing your feelings and experiences after the war. To everyone else, while I’m here, I am very interested in your philosophy, religious outlooks and speculations on technology.
Posted by Kevin Spooner on 01-30-2001 12:36 PM
WinkAh… the war. Now that’s interesting. Is it worth mentioning the visions I observed in this or similar respect?Now as to answering my previous post… I simply placed a task there that if done would not alter my time-line but for sure answer one thing – I believe in the reality of Alien technology as I was one of several verifiable people to OBSERVE the same occurence. I believe in astral/spiritual travel as a person who has done so and spoken to others of the same. I believe in the potential of time travel BUT have not received anything that would make me properly convinced yet.But then… perchance I missed some other posts prior to this BBS (although I did on occasion read the old system when it was active.)You tell of war… and your desire to study the inhabitants of this time-line prior to ‘the war’. Is the general population more interested in (a) mind-baffling time-travel technology, or (b) the events and observances of a time-traveller? A bit of both perhaps?Care to shed some light on your view on ‘The War’ and why it is that technology appears to have gone – or become the seclusive property of controlling authorities? Interesting. I note also the American Computer Corporation announcing an alternative storage/processing system 12,000 times faster than current systems…apparently by non-human intelligence. Now as a technician, that IS interesting but of the apparent 3,000 the director sent out…. wonder if there’s one left for a genuine techo to study?
Posted by John Titor on 01-30-2001 02:09 PM
Sometimes I imagine what it would be like to approach the Wright Brothers in 1910, before their first flight, and make the suggestion that in a mere thirty years, man would be on the brink of flying through the air at the speed of sound.
What tools would I be able to show them that would convince them? Would a picture of a jet airplane do it? Would complicated math and physics equations do it? Would it take a ride? Perhaps there will be a way to share the photos again but I don’t expect it would convince anyone. I would only hope they would spark conversation and make the reality of time travel a little more personal.
Although I have no personal experience with non-mechanical time travel, I cannot discount it. Physics has a way of making the impossible a reality.
I’m not here to study anyone. My objective was in 1975 and the reason I’m here now is my family. I find my preconceptions of what I would encounter interesting. Being exposed to a society through its art, music and advertising is one thing and experiencing it is another.
I’m not sure the physics of time travel is really that hard to grasp. Most of the working theory has been around on a large scale since 1970 and the technical breakthroughs are happening on your worldline right now.
Technology is not gone in 2036 nor is it the private domain of “government” leaders. Computer printers just didn’t work very well on 12 volts and many people just got used to doing things the old way. After the war, the main problem was distribution. Can anyone tell me how many companies in the United States still manufacture bicycle tires today? Anyone who still has a bike in 2008 will find out.
Posted by Mike Kolesnik on 01-30-2001 07:58 PM
Red faceThe wave rider spun a similar yarn and reeled Art in, hook, line and sinker. Then Art had him on the show. He started off ok but quickly went downhill into the Wacko Zone. After he told Art that Marilyn Monore is not only alive but that she shot JFK there was a LONG silence from Art. I could hear the gears turning in Art’s head as he finally realized that he had been suckered.It was the most glorious moment of silence!Art recovered and proceeded to blast him.Now, Back to “John”. Some items, John.If I traveled back in time I would absolutely want to know the history of the period and location. Since you have revealed yourself you have obviously been trying to convince people of you credibility. So since you had fore knowledge of your intentions you should have been ABSOLUTELY sure of having easy-to-verify NEAR future history. Showing crappy pictures of dollar bills from the future is child’s play.
Anybody with a $500 computer can do that. You sound like one of those religious cult nuts whose story keeps changing.
The “temporal divergence” you mention makes it an easy answer for every probing question. ” Well, because of the temporal divergence, the whole world just changed, THAT’s why none of my predictions come true.There is a medical term for people like you.
Look it up!
So General Electric makes your TT machine. Well if that’s the case then being masters of mass production they should have made millions of them because EVERYONE would want one.
(1) If the machine does exist we should be FLOODED with TTer’s right now!
(2) CJD That story has been know since the late 1940’s. No great news there.
(3) Middle east problems? That’s a no brainer.
You are spitting out the same things Ed Dames did.None of his predictions came true either…Yawn…
Posted by Kevin Spooner on 01-31-2001 02:14 AM
Galvanization is something occasionally found on a packet of building-grade nails (like ‘galvanized flat-head’) But with the lack of tangible evidence I’m thinking of shifting my belief in just what (or who) should be termed galvanised?I have not seen a constructively frame-worked document outlining required ethics which any trained TT would of necessity agree to. I have not seen a TT willing to forward a single piece of physical time travel device to this particular technician since first posting anything over five years ago. I have not heard of any governing declaration of use for TT devices from the future.I have seen ‘interesting’ crude pictures, photo’s of items with curly cords and really pre-1990 style equipment with perchance a few common dials, needles, and circuits in probably arc-welded metal boxes. I have seen diagrams, descriptions, interpretations, crude ‘make your own’ manuals, and the like – and yet nothing, not one iota of anything that could without question come from some future.I am not p***ed off – not yet. I am calm (breathe man breathe!) and wait in anticipation of some correct answers to some simple questions and for goodness sake… some undoubtable proof. Then – only then – would constructive discussion really begin.
Posted by John Titor on 01-31-2001 06:30 AM
I’m not aware of any predictions I made or perhaps we do not agree on the definition. What anyone chooses to do based on something I might say will not affect me in the least. My goal is not to believed and I submit that your life would not be any better (and perhaps worse) if you did believe me. You placed “tests” before me that I must pass. Why? What do I have to gain by passing them?
The fact is there is nothing I can say or show you or let you drop hydrochloric acid on that will “make” you believe me and I really don’t want that. It would be nice to discuss your view on religion, politics, physics and the mechanical requirements of time travel but in order to engage in those types of conversations, I must apparently tell you who wins the hockey game next week. I’m just guessing that if were to write out the ten lines for Fermat’s final proof you wouldn’t be very impressed either.
(1) Industrialized mass production does not produce the uncountable tonnage of useless consumer items so gleefully absorbed by your society. I would estimate there are about 10 units like mine (C204) and twenty larger units (C206). The main difference is the sensitivity and number of the main Cesium clocks. I would estimate that some sort of public time travel will be common around 2045.
(2) I’m not aware of any other time traveler’s “here” now. But if they are here, I’m sure they’re pouring over sports history books so they can go back in time another week and start a friendly conversation on the web.
(3) The “Mad Cow” story here is yet to begin but don’t worry, the fruited jellitine deserts are safe.
(4) I’m glad to see it’s so easy for to dismiss the Middle East. Yes, I suppose it is a no brainer but pretty soon it will be a “no arrmer” and a “no legger”.
Ethics is an excellent topic of discussion and I hope we can move past a collective insistence of applying everything to this frame of reference.
Posted by Melinda Floyd on 01-31-2001 10:50 AM
Of course I only speak for myself, but I think it’s irrelevant and pointless to argue whether or not this man is a Time Traveler or not. This thread sure beats anything else on the BBS right now, and it doesn’t matter if what John is claiming is fact, a hypothetical exercise or pure BS. He’s raised some very interesting points that I think would be beneficial for discussion:1) Civil War–considering the current political climate of our country, this is feasible. Figuring in the pervading apathy regarding what has happened in the last couple of months (the serious implications should have at least ‘clicked’ by now), I think something much more drastic would have to happen to get Americans off their couches and away from their TV’s (or computers) in order to fight for ANYTHING.
2) Mass Production–I was thinking the other day how much we waste in this country via mass production. I was in a store standing in front of a wall covered with utterly useless ‘stuff’ and the absurdity of it struck me so much I had to laugh. I’ve always admired Gandhi’s belief in doing away with industrializing India in favor of keeping to a much smaller (but more widely spread among the people) production of textiles (ie; ‘craftsmen’).
3) Ethics and Holistic thinking–shouldn’t the more prosperous lend a helping hand to those in less fortunate circumstances, and shouldn’t this be done worldwide? I know we in America have allowed ourselves to be lied to regarding what is important and what is not. We seem to be more valued in this society for what kind of, and how many material possessions we accumulate than for the intangible/non-material but longer lasting treasures we might possess.
4) Anything is possible. Why not? If you think for yourself, someone like John shouldn’t be a threat. Haven’t you had ‘futuristic’ dreams? Do you suspect that you are living in other timelines or ‘realities’–some very similar, some so different that you don’t even have a frame of reference in order to understand them with? Do you remember doing this particular incarnation millions of times before? Is sanity just too boring for you?=)Anyways, I only briefly touched on some of the things John has brought up in his posts (and from the link he posted). Yeah John, I’d like to discuss what ethics and the human condition would be like in the future.
Posted by Vanessa Bunn on 01-31-2001 03:41 PM
John Titor,A serious reply please. When you determine the time to which you want to travel do you “dial in” the date to which you want to go, can you “jump” to a new date, say in 1000 year increments. Can you “sample” the time period by stopping only for a few moments before continueing your trip and can you take passengers with you????? please answer honestly.
Posted by John Titor on 01-31-2001 07:13 PM
The distortion unit reaches its target destination by using very sensitive gravity sensors and atomic clocks. The basic unit of calculation is the second. So yes, in a sense you do “dial in” in a date and the computer system controls the distortion field. At maximum power, the unit I have is capable of traveling about 10 years an hour.
Unfortunately, time travel is not an exact science. There is inherent error and chaos in the computers ability to make accurate calculations. Based on the current technology of the clocks and sensors, distortion units are only accurate to about 60 years or so. So no, in 2036, we are unable to travel back 1000 years due to the error rate in the system. The divergence between the worldline of origin and the target worldline would be too great. If one were to try and travel back that far, history would look nothing like what you would expect.
The unit has mass limits but the 204 is capable of transporting about three people and equipment. I don’t think you would like 2036 very much.
Posted by Charles Moltrup on 01-31-2001 09:02 PM
WinkWhy would you want a IBM 5100 I can find them at auctions for next to nothing, i think they were the first 286 CPU’s.
Why didn’t you stop in this year first and by one.Well I have a good question for you in 2036 do you still use toliet paper to wipe your ass.
Posted by Kevin Spooner on 02-01-2001 04:58 AM
I’m pleased to see certain persons take little offense and in fact upon re-reading my posts recently I have noticed they don’t read as intended – I am for the record pleasant but usually quiet company! Sorry if I upset you (I hope not.)
Dear God… please hurry up and make these computers write not what is typed… but what is meant…. hmm.I have a natural inquisitive mind and enjoy and technical challenges. I am also a Spiritualist and to that end enjoy both spirit and mind… which is why I for one am naturally curious about the future, time travel, parallel universes, and spiritual matters. I believe that most people visiting this site do so for a mixture of reasons – including the DESIRE to know.You mentioned previously the year 2008 – what’s significant given your observed 2.5% difference between this time line and your own?You mentioned a certain model (204) travel unit – what is the source of power and what type of ‘engine’ is used?If as you claimed, most of the requisite information has been around since 1970’s – and yet time travel is not public until ? 2045… why is it that a time traveler can not divulge design information that would demonstrate its reality. Are there missing common elements/materials yet to be discovered or engineered?
Posted by John Titor on 02-01-2001 08:36 AM
The 5100 had a very simple and unique feature that IBM did not account for and decided it was not in their best interest to advertise (which in hindsight was not very smart). This accidental feature was thus removed from any future desktop computers. In order to take advantage of this feature, the 5100 I have now required a couple of special “tweaks” that had to be done by one of the software engineers in 1975. Anyone who is familiar with this feature and was told to keep their mouth shut about it will be able to tell you what it is.
Yes we still have toilet tissue and some people still suffer from extreme anal fixation.
I have noticed and gotten used to the act of verbal conflict as a cathartic entertainment. I don’t totally understand it but I take no offense by it either. Perhaps we could just arm wrestle some day and still be able to have a pleasant conversation.
The year 2008 was a general date by which time everyone will realize the world they thought they were living in was over. The civil war in the United States will start in 2004. I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse. The conflict will consume everyone in the US by 2012 and end in 2015 with a very short WWIII.
The source of power for the C204 that allows it to distort and manipulate gravity comes from two microsingularities that were created, captured and cleaned at a much larger and “circular” facility. The dual event horizons of each one and their mass is manipulated by injecting electrons onto the surface of their respective ergospheres. The electricity comes from batteries. The breakthrough that will allow for this technology will occur within a year or so when CERN brings their larger facility online.
Perhaps it would have been clearer to state that the math has been around since 1970. I would urge you to examine the properties of Kerr black holes and Tipler cylinders. An actual working prototype was first tested in 2034.
On my worldline, time travel is not a public recreation but we are all aware that it exists. You may be disappointed to know that the ability to manipulate gravity is not the technical challenge that had to be overcome. Miniaturizing the clocks and sensors, creating clever ways to vent x-rays and creating a computer system dependable enough to calculate the changes required to the field were the main challenges. There are no missing pieces…just missing energy levels and a few very interesting subatomic particles.
Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-01-2001 10:42 AM
JOHN,I always thought a good question to ask a time traveler would be: When is the next triple crown won in horse racing and what is that horse’s name.
Those events are few and far between and generally remembered. They should stand out in most people’s minds. This could be a good little test. A winner of some obscure 10k race in Utah nobody would remember, but Derby winners and especially Triple Crown winners hold international prominence.
Posted by John Titor on 02-01-2001 11:28 AM
Unfortunately, winners of historical sports betting events are not high on the priority list of people in 2036. As a thought experiment, If I did tell you who the winning horse was and you killed it before the final race, would that make me a liar or would it support my statement that our world-lines are about 2% different? Do you know who won that race 30 years ago?
Posted by Matt Hagemeier on 02-01-2001 11:55 AM
John. a few questions: what is the political climate like in the U.S in your current timeline? I mean, what form of government is there?
Posted by Charles Moltrup on 02-01-2001 12:04 PM
TalkingSorry about the flip question you do know your computers but still why didn’t you buy a CRAY computer second hand they are much more reliable.Have a nice flight BACK TO THE FUTURE
Posted by Grant Nelson on 02-01-2001 07:21 PM
John, you are right about the significance of the 5100 so I tend to believe most of what you say about the near future will also come to pass in my personal time line.I propose a little experiment.I will come look you up if I happen to be in Florida in 2036 and we can talk computers or go fishing.PS Next time somebody asks which team won a particular game just tell ’em it was the one that scored the most points.
Posted by John Tooker on 02-02-2001 02:21 AM
Thumbs upHey,You’re a traveler too? Have you ever interacted with any of the pre 1983 staff, at Montauk? If so, you may have met me. When I was working there, I was a R&D assistant to Dr. Von Neumann, and was known as Daniel John Waters, and had a rank of Lt. Col., in the Psi Corps.
I looked exactly like Jack Parsons, in that incarnation, and was in on the “rebellion” that Al Bielek, Preston Nichols, et al were on, and was working with Duncan Cameron on the specific night everything went down.
I discovered this largely via recovered memories, and psychical research, but my website, and story, can be read at http://members.tripod.com/~jrtooker/index-2.html, but I have no hard evidence that this person existed. Which is why I’m trying to contact other travelers.
BTW, this isn’t my original timeline, as I believe that I jumped timelines, not long after doing some work with Steve Gibbs, on his trip up to Calgary, Canada.John
Posted by John Tooker on 02-02-2001 02:24 AM
Thumbs upHey,You’re a traveler too? Have you ever interacted with any of the pre 1983 staff, at Montauk? If so, you may have met me. When I was working there, I was a R&D assistant to Dr. Von Neumann, and was known as Daniel John Waters, and had a rank of Lt. Col., in the Psi Corps.
I looked exactly like Jack Parsons, in that incarnation, and was in on the “rebellion” that Al Bielek, Preston Nichols, et al were on, and was working with Duncan Cameron on the specific night everything went down.John
Posted by Kevin Spooner on 02-02-2001 04:03 AM
AngryAnd I just loved wasting my time looking at how to be informed about cannabis… wanna try again? Perhaps check the link?
Posted by John Titor on 02-02-2001 06:34 AM
If you could change one thing about your government right now, what would it be?
The United States is still a representative republic in 2036 but it was touch and go for a while.
After the war, the U.S. had divided into 5 general areas based on their economic and defensive strengths. Many people blamed the government organization for the war and the last Constitutional Congress was held in 2020 to officially scrap the Constitution and start over.
Fortunately, this exercise in anger pointed out how hard it was to come up with anything better.
It was decided the document wasn’t at fault.
As a result, there have been a few small changes to the Constitution and the executive branch but you would easily recognize it. The average citizen is more educated about the Constitution and aware of the rights and responsibilities it gives them. Federal power has been decentralized and the focus of daily politics is in the state senates. Federal law has also been streamlined but much harder to change or make additions to.
The people who sign my paycheck told me why we needed a 5100 and sent me off to get one. I was not in a position to make alternate suggestions. As I recall, isn’t the Cray a rather large system? We need something portable. The 5100 isn’t required for its reliability, its needed to translate between APL, UNIX and a few obscure IBM mainframe languages.
The fishing is great and you’re more than welcome to join us but the “me” here is only three. I’ll have to tell him your coming.
Posted by James R.Quayle III on 02-02-2001 06:49 AM
CoolGreetings TT Titor,I have not been on this site in a long while,I am acquaintances with Al Bielek,and I have been in close quarters with beings not human and not from this place or time.
The Humans who talk with you on this post have not asked you yet how you feel about your travels?
How has it effected you emotionally?
Do you age?
Does the hair grow on your face faster,do your nails grow quicker?
Does the air taste different in different time periods?
How is the food in the future?
Have you tried to eat things not found in your time?
Do you know me in the future?
I plan on living 120 years,so i am sure going to look for you later 35 years from now i will be 66,I was born in 1970.
I have met a few other TT people(Time Travel),I did not ask them about lotteries or sh1t like that(How petty)I like my time,but i see Traveling into Another Time and Space as too much for most humans.
To think on different levels,to not lose oneself,to not fall in love or like with peoples from different times.That must be the hardest,to not be able to connect with others that would be traumatized by the info given by a TT person.
Whether your from here nor there matters not, thanks for helping the ones from this Time think of what they are and where they may be heading.
Agentq3 Blessed Be in your travels!
Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-02-2001 07:52 AM
John,I know sports questions are not good for you, so how about a couple of other questions? Does GW survive his presidency or is there an attempt on his life? That should be historically documented.
Do the current inhabitants of this here planet travel to Mars between now and 2036? If that is the case when does that happen? n,
Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-02-2001 09:42 AM
QuestionOK, this John Titor guy obviously is really into science fiction, a scientist, or is actually a TT’er.Trust me, I would *really* love to believe that you are from the future. So as Mike suggested, instead of going on about fantastic time machine components and WW3, why not actually gain some credibility by correctly telling NEAR future events? Indeed, you are very convincing with your stories of what you claim will be, but unless you actually *prove* who you claim to be, quit wasting our time…you may as well be beating your head against the wall.Although, if you consistently tell of near-future events, you will rightly gain all our respect, and we will be hanging off your every word…As I said, I want to believe, but don’t give us the typical “I don’t need to prove myself, I am not here to do that” Well you should be!…Why come on here and spend all that time with your stories, if everyone discounts you as a crackpot. If you want us to actually *listen* to you, then prove yourself! I know that the *first* thing that I would do if I claimed to be a time traveler, is *consistently* tell of *near*-future events…whether it’s politics or entertainment…just give us *anything* that we can all relate to…I don’t mean to sound cynical and negative, but if you want us to believe you, then just do what I suggest, and quit being so evasive.Thanks.[Edited by Chris Greycheck on 02-02-2001 at 10:07 AM]
Posted by John Titor on 02-02-2001 10:09 AM
Yes, I age and my hair and nails grow at normal rates. Please keep in mind that gravity distortion does involve some dilation effects but “jumping” between world-lines are time-like trips, not space-like trips.
The air is about the same although I do smell and taste industrial odors here my parents cannot.
The food in the future is grown and raised naturally inside the community structure. This is done primarily for safety reasons. I am amazed at the risks people here are willing to take with processed food. All of the food I eat here is grown and prepared by myself or my family.
Unfortunately, I do not know if we are acquainted on my world-line. Yes, love is a challenge. What’s harder is knowing you could go back and correct a mistake but at the cost of the “you” on that world-line you want to live your life over again on.
The questions about the president and space travel are reasonable but now we come to a conflict between physics and ethics.
First, the ethics:
I have seen a television program about a man who is able to speak with the dead. When I watch the show, I am more afraid about the possibility that what he is doing is real not weather or not he is doing it.
Since I will be leaving this world-line in the coming year, I could easily tell you that the President lives or dies in the next four years.
In fact, I could probably find some way to even charge you for it. When the day comes for my “prediction” to be realized it will either happen or not. If it does happen, then your ability to judge your environment is crippled by your acceptance of me as a “knower of all things” and gifted with the ability to tell the future.
If I am wrong, then everything I have said that might possibly have made you think about your world in a different way is suddenly discredited.
I do not want either.
Although I do have personal reasons for being here and speaking with you, the most I could hope for is that you recognize the possibility of time travel as a reality. You are able to change your world-line for better or worse just as I am. Although this will make me a far less interesting time traveler, these are the rules I personally try to hold to:
[1] I will not disclose any information that will cause someone to personally gain by its knowledge. This means no stock or sports tips.
[2] I will not disclose any detailed information that would allow someone to avoid death by probability. This means no earthquake or bomb information.
[3] I will not disclose any information that may compromise any future actions by individual people or threaten their family and well-being. I will not disclose names or events associated with individuals.
Now for the physics:
The grandfather paradox is impossible. In fact, all paradox is impossible. The Everett-Wheeler-Graham or multiple world theory (MWI) is correct. All possible quantum states, events, possibilities and outcomes are real, eventual and occurring. The chances of everything happening someplace at sometime in the superverse is 100%. (For all you scientists out there, if Schrodinger’s cat had a time machine, he might not be in the box at all.)
Therefore, there is a world-line where you are alive and another world-line where you have gone back in time to kill your relative and the you on the new world-line won’t be born but “you” the killer is still running around there.
Differences between world-lines are measured from the perspective of the time traveler in terms of divergence percentage. The higher the divergence, the more “un-like” your destination world-line looks like compared to your world-line of origin.
Therefore, any “prediction” I might make has a slight chance of being incorrect anyway and you now have the ability to act on it based on what I’ve said. Can you stop the war before it gets here? Sure. Will you do it? Probably not.
As far as space travel goes… no, we are not on Mars yet but we’re trying very hard so we can avoid another “Hell’s Kitchen” outcome from an overpopulated Earth
Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-02-2001 10:26 AM
John,As I read more and more of your posts, I am admittedly intrigued, but increasingly annoyed by your insistence.OK, fine, there are ethical issues, relating to lotto numbers and gambling, so tell us something like how many will be found dead in the earthquake in India. Tell us something that happens in politics on a national level.
Surely you can tell us *something* that has a neutral moral effect on society.You stated:“Although I do have personal reasons for being here and speaking with you, the most I could hope for is that you recognize the possibility of time travel as a reality”Tell us something we don’t know!! Look at what message board you are on!! How redundant can one be? Of course it’s not unreasonable that most of us on here certainly think that time travel is a possibility!!..come on…“2. I will not disclose any detailed information that would allow someone to avoid death by probability. This means no earthquake or bomb information”Why not? What the hell is wrong with you? If I knew someone was going to be in a situation where they may die, and there was a chance I could stop it, I have the moral obligation to do something about it.John, it’s becoming clearer to me that you are simply a fraud…how sad indeed…you can still save yourself, but you better do it soon.
Posted by John Titor on 02-02-2001 10:53 AM
Perhaps it would be better if you just considered me a fraud. I really don’t have a problem with that. If that were the case, could we then have discussions that you were comfortable with?
((Why not? What the hell is wrong with you? If I knew someone was going to be in a situation where they may die, and there was a chance I could stop it, I have the moral obligation to do something about it.))
I can think of a couple of examples.
If the Egyptians knew the Red Sea was going to drown them, do you think they would have pursued Moses?
If you could go back in time to 1941 and tell the radar operators to take a second look at the radar screen on December 7th, would you? Before you say yes and accept that parade in your honor down main street, perhaps you should go forward in time and see if the U.S still had the motivation to make the A-bomb before Hitler did.
Posted by James R.Quayle III on 02-02-2001 10:59 AM
Thank you for your timely reply,and i feel if i am not someone you recognize as a future name known then how about you let me know if Newport Beach is a bad place to be in case of a war?
Nuked area?
Probably,i bet.What area is a good one to be in when the nukes fall?
Have you met any other time travelers besides yourself?
Have you ever had an alien encounter?
Because i have had some very interesting meetings with ET’s.
agentq3 Thank you again for your time john titor
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-02-2001 11:00 AM
John –Can you give us some brief personal stories of your past? For instance, in relation to history what were some of your growing up sagas?Can you tell us how China and Africa make their way into the 21st Century?Jazz -Swing -BeBop -R&B -Rock ‘n Roll -Disco -Rap/HipHop – ….what comes next???Do Crop Circles play a part in labeling these micromeasurements in time of gravity/energy?
Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-02-2001 11:09 AM
QuestionJohn,I am certainly not uncomfortable in thinking that you are a fraud, although it would bring me (and others) great comfort if you could prove yourself.You chose only to reply to my statement of the moral obligation to help others if you knew they were going to die, (but still not directly, as I was saying that if you knew someone who was going to be in a life-threatening situation, especially a family member or friend, it’s your duty to get them out of it…I was not talking about people who knew of their imminent deaths…and your 1941 example was not clear…Yet you didn’t bother to reply to me when I said that you were being redundant when you say that your wish is to get others to believe that time travel is a possibility. Again, I will say, that the whole premise of this board is based on the paranormal, and if anything, most of us *already* believe that time travel is a possibility, including myself…so your many posts on this board are on the basis of redundancy.Again I will ask: Tell us something that is morally neutral, like a near-future event in Hollywood or politics…something…come on, I am giving you chance after chance, I want to believe…I am trying to be objective about this, but as you continually evade and dodge the real questions, you become less and less credible.
Posted by James Boley on 02-02-2001 11:17 AM
John,I applaud your story. It would make for a great book or Hollywood movie.You keep mentioning ethics as an excuse not to divulge information of the near future, however you still freely talk about other items such as the physics behind your machine or facts about the far future.I have a hard time believing that time travel, if possible and if it will be done, would be done in such a lax way. What would happen if you, while traveling on personel business, died while visiting yourself. Or what if a scientist reading this thread who in the future will develop time travel alters his patterns of study and changes the future, thus changing you thus changing everything?The mere chance of a severe domino effect would, I believe, limit time travel on a very strict and limited manner, if it is allowed at all! Why would a group of seemingly intelligent people risk changing there present on the desire to see themselves in the past?While entertaining, your story is bogus.
Posted by Randy Empey on 02-02-2001 11:36 AM
Based on the models John professes to beleive and to be the basis on the tech. that got him here, many of your reasons for disbelief, particular those just mentioned by James . . . are easily shot down or at least deflected.If it is not the truth for John, it is at least an ingeniously well constructed story.Lets talk about those things John has been repetitiously asking to talk about . . . since, John’s being a TT may be his reality, but at the same time, never be part of one of us critique’s realities.
Posted by John Titor on 02-02-2001 11:41 AM
I fail to understand why my words generate so much conflict. I think it’s far better for you to consider what I say as fantasy so there is no question of credibility. How is my credibility going to affect your life? I don’t want you to believe me and it doesn’t affect me in the least if you did.
I don’t know any other way to tell you that I am unaware of what happens in the next week, especially in Hollywood. Just curious…that’s a common question, why do you think I would know something about that?
Yes, it’s very possible that what I say would spin your future off into a different direction. But since what I say is “bogus” that shouldn’t be a problem.
On a philosophical level, the existence of multiple worlds implies a moral balance in the superverse. For every world-line you perform a good action, there is a world-line where you perform a bad action.
There are no good and bad people, just good and bad decisions.
We can only be responsible for what we do as individuals on the world-line we are on now. So take heart!
Somewhere out there is a world-line where I’m spilling all the beans on Hockey, the stock market and Hollywood and you’re all off to Vegas and Wall Street making millions of dollars.
I do very much enjoy these conversations and I’m working on the other questions…
Posted by Matt Hagemeier on 02-02-2001 11:50 AM
john, I really don’t have much complaint about government, Although not perfect I still believe this is the best place to live on the planet. One thing the government needs to do is decriminalize drugs. The drug war is a useless war.So is the civil war started by those anti-gov types?The next question is religion, if time travel is possible, what does that do to the religious? If I exist on many time lines, which one is really me? Did God create one “me”, or many “me’s”What about movies, TV, Sports, Nebraska Cornhusker football, please don't tell me there us no husker football in 2036.
Posted by James Boley on 02-02-2001 01:05 PM
John,Rereading my last post, bogus came off a little strong. I did not mean to conflict with you per se, but tell you I don’t believe your story.There are a couple of questions I would like answered.First if you don’t care if we believe you or not, why are you posting here? What purpose do you have to tell part of your story?Next, I assume that you would have superiors over seeing your work. What do they think of your use of the equipment for personel reasons?Are you afraid of altering your reality in our future or your present in the slightest?You have mentioned that there is a flux of change for every 60 years. This would suggest to me that you are also traveling across dimensions or as Star Trek lingo suggests, alternate realities. 8^) If you are doing this, is there any concern of yours or your comrades that you are affecting our future? Would that concern you if it did not affect you?Is there such a thing, in your reality, as crimes against time? For example, killing an enemy while he is a child? Or changing the past to make your present more pleasant (lotteries and gaming franchises have been mentionned)?I have said I do not believe your story, but I hope you will still answer my questions.
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-02-2001 03:23 PM
50% of the world lives on $2.00 a day and a good portion of those not even that (general One-Worlder figure per Jimmy Carter on NPR the other day).
Many of these people think the whole notion of a western world is a big myth. People living in tribes in parts of Africa, South America, and Western China would laugh if you were to tell them there are cities with more than a million people in them – they have automatic vehicles for transport – some even fly -, they communicate electronically, wash and cook using machines etc.
That’s RIGHT HERE ON THIS PLANET. Should we go tell them about us? This concept right away illustrates some illusions about our (Western Worlders’) presence in the world.John can you say more regarding this phenomenon and how future societies (might) handle the new frontiers of technology in our world?About 4 or 5 years ago Art Bell had on a guest involved in researching feral humans. He told of a remote Venezuelan tribe that refused to believe there was a city such as Caracas. HE described how the senior tribesman tried to relate to the notion that there was such a type of civilization anywhere near them.A couple of years before that I had some adventures here in the US. I began traveling around the country staying at Youth Hostels and working where I could.
I found myself riding freight trains in the Pacific Northwest and had a last minute rider in my car. He threw his stuff in, climbed aboard and we had quite a few hours of conversation. He was a migrant worker who was starting the Apple Orchard season. (A not uncommon occupation for unskilled labor both foreign and domestic in the Northwest -though most non-immigrant workers will head out on the fishing boats for good/hard-earned money).HE told me about leaving his little village in Oaxaca many years ago.
When he left he was convinced that the jungle surrounding his village just continued on forever and was really surprised when he found other landscapes- cities-cultures.
HE spent quite a few years listening to talk radio shows on his little walkmans, working and travelling. I was really surprised about how much he knew of history, politics, science and even overseas cultures.I also have to say that, what I saw of Freight Train Riders, during this period. represented a fairly evolved subculture, and one not very involved in what we would consider the NORMAL world.PBS ran the Jazz series a few weeks ago.
When Louis Armstrong finally made the leap out of New Orleans and Kansas City to travel to New York to play with “King” Oliver’s band he was FOB (fresh off the boat), in a way. Dressed funny, and gawking at all the huge buildings of which was convinced were all Universities – huge Towers of Learning.My father grew up in a little! town in the hills of western Pennsylvania. His parents were not the most educated tools in the shed. He has told me since that often when he was little he wondered whether all the stories about places like France, Germany etc. were just made up tales that got passed around on the radio and in print. Of course that could have been just him <g>.Just some examples, to me at least, about how little we know of the world … of which we think we know so much.
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-02-2001 04:06 PM
The previous examples were all – of the uneducated “others” in the world, obviously.WE, of course, are a part of that group which ranks itself at the very pinnacle of evolutionary capabilities.
Posted by Lee Heggy on 02-02-2001 04:29 PM
I am from 4535…no wait, thats my address. Sorry.
Posted by Grant Nelson on 02-02-2001 07:20 PM
James wrote “John, I applaud your story. It would make for a great book or Hollywood movie.”James. it did ! good prediction from one remote viewer. [ IT, the movez: was popularized in late 20th century good returns at the box office and widely circulated on illegal DVD discs . Just before the lights went out in 2001 it played to appreciative audiences in LA & NY.John, I been thinking about the “fission” trip and wanted to tell you about one of my favorite places. I always try and land on the Shell Mound just north of Cedar Key every so many seconds.
For some reason it always works. Minimal distortion. Maybe its because the People have eaten oysters on this spot of 10 x 4 years or maybe more if one believes the Miami Circle evidence. Why just the other day some neighbors were burning some ol’ logs they got out of the drying up lake bed and you know what ? The arch*e*olo*gee people landed like ***** on **** and wanted to know what the ++++ they were doing burning thousand year old native american dug out canoes for to keep warm. in the oil crisis.
They said a “little child” had told them to do it. Noonans Lake. General Noonan was only there for ten days during the last Civil War. The People enjoyed this land for many many many moons. Go figure. 10 days 10,000 years. is this a log factor ?You could send me the current GPS co ordinates for where I’m talking about and also set your cessium clock to remind you where to meet up in 2036. Since you been there and done that I will let you pick a day. My birthday for example.note that I have email and am a real person, unlike some journalists you may have encountered.You all come on over and visit while I’m here. grantPS Maybe the only place [bicycle distance] in 1976 to go for computer tech was either U.F. Gainesville or up Tallahassee way. You know, where the high energy magnetics lab is located? In 1976 you would have maybe dealt with NERD*c or some such entity. Welcome back.[Edited by Grant Nelson on 02-02-2001 at 07:45 PM]
Posted by Anthony D’Amato on 02-02-2001 07:30 PM
Hi I am from Beliviue, looking for John Titor.
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-03-2001 09:09 AM
John – read your page. Guess you’re saying the troubles we avoid(ed) during the Y2K scare might be seen as similar to the consequences of not having had Pearl Harbor saved.—“This is one example of a theory involving “time shells” progressing in size and intensity around a gravitational point from all matter. The more massive the object, the larger and more influential the time shells around it (like an onion). —Like an isobaric map of potential time lines and “intentions”.“Perhaps I should let you all in on a little secret. No one likes you in the future."
LOLFigures…I’m not sure I like many of us right now.
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-03-2001 09:15 AM
Exclusive of everyone here, that is. 🙂
Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-03-2001 09:29 AM
JOHN,Two more questions. Is there official disclosure or any sudden revelations in the area of an ET presence and how is the world view of our space in the whole scheme of things.
In other words do we by 2036 know for sure we’re not alone?
I do remember who won the triple crown about 30 years ago; Secretariat in 1973, also I think Affirmed did it in 1978. I don’t think it has been done since.
I have no way to prosper from knowing whether GW makes it through his presidency, I just thought it would be a good question. Odds are in your favor to say he doesn’t.
I’m just trying to formulate non-invasive ways to see if you are who you say you are. I have a keen interest in this amazing field and unfortunately we have seen too many people who, if you are for real, have made it difficult for you. To tell you the truth I hope you are for real.
Posted by Kevin Spooner on 02-04-2001 11:37 PM
QuestionBut then I suppose anyone dealing in trans-vectoring across multiple time-flows eventually crosses itself in the fore or aft directions. We know that time is a malleable product and so too are the options of this linear flow. So then… if that is the case how could one establish that *this* timeline is *the* prime and all the others are variants that may cross on periods like a biorhythm.
More I suspect they are all prime in and of themselves and we simply have attached to this particular one.Personally I like the Spiritualist ideal of pre-physical choice – I chose to be here, I chose this existence, extending that to…I chose this timeline. Maybe also their perspective of being a part of God within their own makeup to the extent of being able to choose futures is also evident – how do you know you have not cognitively chosen your personal direction a billion times and not even realized at this moment all the choices you have made along time to get to this point thus far.Its a bit like realizing that what to Spirit are Spiritual powers is in the weaker sense to the Physical (us) with its Psychic powers… we only know so much but in the Spiritual worlds we know so much more… consciousness expansion.Just my tuppence in between our venerable TT’s absence. Cheers all.
Posted by John Michael Davis on 02-05-2001 12:38 AM
TalkingI don’t believe in the possibility of time travel – the transcendence of time/space a total other framed reference but an individual revelation that really translates everyday realities – then but to visit the age of the dinosaurs on some planet – that would to me be traveling time – viewing our own development on swell universal fractals – and we are the et’s – synchronizing galactic calandrical systems – what of the machine – that we have been born here – living the first years of our lives among them – room and board – all at once and eternal.
Posted by Kevin Spooner on 02-05-2001 01:28 AM
Really? If you do not believe in Time travel then I suggest for discussion that you CHOOSE not to believe. Do you believe in ET’s or UFO’s – choices. Do you believe that the rest of the world or the known universe exists – choices. Do you believe you were born of sin – choices. You choose not to believe – this is not the same as the ability for it to exist.Ah then the critic would say… ok TT… demonstrate.
Yes I’d love a demonstration – but more – the specifics on its design and a guide on correct ethics and use. I have not seen a Time Travel device that I am aware of – but that does not mean I do not believe – especially in the potential.All things can be created, all things can be – the difference is I chose not to make the choice of yes or no – I believe or I don’t until it slaps me like a wet fish.And where is our venerable TT John T? Hope you are well friend – and yes, I was very serious about ethics and technology. But alas, all requests have met with zero in my hands to work with. But still – I choose to be patient.
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-05-2001 07:30 AM
Potential Hazard of being a Time Traveler — Always putting things off until you can “get back” to doing them. LOL
Posted by John Titor on 02-05-2001 11:28 AM
As far as the war goes, my best advice is to find at least 5 people within 100 miles of you that you trust with your life.
No, I haven’t met any other time travelers here and although from my perspective that’s highly unlikely, it’s not impossible.
No, I don’t have any additional information concerning crop circles, ETs or UFOs. I find those subjects rather interesting myself and it’s one of the reasons I was drawn to this web site.
((Can you give us some brief personal stories of your past? For instance, in relation to history what were some of your growing up sagas?))I was born in 1998 so I do share some childhood memories with all of you. I remember going to Disney World at Christmas and I remember going to the beach in Daytona.
When the civil “conflict” started and got worse, people generally decided to either stay in the cities and lose most of their civil rights under the guise of security [Highlighted by metallicman, remember this was BEFORE 9-11.] or leave the cities for more isolated and rural areas. Our home was searched once and the neighbor across the street was arrested for some unknown reason. That convinced my father to leave the city.
From the age of 8 to 12, we lived away from the cities and spent most of our time in a farm community with other families avoiding conflict with the federal police [In 2001, there wasn't any "federal police". It was created after 9-11 and called DHS Department of Homeland Security. - Metallicman.] and national guard.
By that time, it was pretty clear that we were not going back to what we had and the division between the “cities” and the “country” was well defined.
2016 Election Results by County. Placed by Metallicman for points of reference.
My father made a living by putting together 12-volt electrical systems and sailing “commodities” up and down the coast of Florida. I spent most of my time helping him.
Outright open fighting was common by then and I joined a shotgun infantry unit in 2011. I served with the “Fighting Diamondbacks” for about 4 years. (Hearing in my right ear isn’t as good as I would like it).
The civil war ended in 2015 when Russia attacked the U.S. cities (our enemy), China and Europe. As unusual and bad as my childhood might seem, I wouldn’t trade it for anything.
Africa is not a pleasant place to be in 2036 although I would characterize it as recovering.
The music you enjoy now is quite popular and available it’s just not produced in anywhere near the same amount. There is a revival of “local” and classical music. Many people have learned to play their own. I personally enjoy Big Band, some Classical and interesting lyrical pieces from the 1970s and 1980s.
((if time travel is possible, what does that do to the religious? If I exist on many time lines, which one is really me? Did God create one “me”, or many “me’s”))
This is an excellent question that causes a great deal of controversy.
Since every possible outcome, event and possibility is happening and will happen, then all good and all evil balances out in the superverse. After the reality of multiple worlds sank into our collective thought, the one basic change to all religious dogma is the concept that good and evil does not exist as an organized force in our lives nor can it be used as a useful way to judge what God may think of a situation.
Good and evil are personal experiences that can only guide what we do as individuals and how we relate to others. This outlook also makes it impossible for me to judge any other person or event. We cannot see the entire universe as God sees it therefore we will never be Gods or be capable of judging anything outside of ourselves. My actions can only be judged as good and bad by me and my God.
There is also an area of thought that maintains all of the “yous” out there will make up the “you” that eventually returns to God. In that manner, it is frustrating to know that you are capable of and acting on all of the thoughts and ideas you have regardless of what the “you” here is doing. How good or evil do you think you can be?
There is even an idea (supported in physics apparently but I have a hard time with this one) that there is some sort of communication going on between all of the “yous” that are out there. Some people think that memories, intuition and conscious are actually attempts by one version of “you” to talk to another. [He just hit the issue with world-line anchoring. - Metallicman.]
Yes, we still have football and you will easily recognize it in 2036.
I am posting here because I enjoy talking with people without having to hide who I am, it’s safe for me and my family and I can gather historical information from you and the web.
Yes, I have superiors.
However, from their perspective, I will only have been gone a split second. The only real risk I am taking is spending too long outside my main line and risking a probability error (dying, accident, etc.).
Based on the physics of gravity displacement, I can’t leave when I ever I want anyway and I do have some leeway into how I conduct my mission.
It is impossible for me to change any world-line that I am not on.
Nothing I do here will affect my home. The “60 year flux” is a limitation of my machine, not of physics. Jet planes can’t fly into space, my machine is not reliable past a 60 + year destination.
You’ve been to Cedar Key? You must be aware I don’t know any personal information about you. If I was just going to guess, I would say it’s important to avoid the rattlesnake or you might be “walking” back to shore. You may be happy to know that although the bridge is gone, Cedar Key is still there.
The computer is from 1975, Rochester Mn.
Yes, the Pearl Harbor example relates to Y2K. Have you considered that I might already have accidentally screwed up your worldline?
((Potential Hazard of being a Time Traveler — Always putting things off until you can “get back” to doing them.))
What’s even worse is having the ability to go back and help the “you” there and you won’t listen to yourself.
Posted by James Boley on 02-05-2001 01:32 PM
Is there any sort of a log in your machine to show where and when you stopped? Will your superiors check that?Is there crimes against time? Can you get in trouble for altering a time line?Philisophical question. While in your alleged time travels you meet a man an convince him to go somewhere with you, causing him not to meet his future wife. Because of this a certain child is not born, and denied existance. Are you guilty because of this change? You may have known this unborn child in the future. It may have even been your friend.And if that child would grow up to stop this civil war in the future, and mankind is better for it (no doubt saving several of your friends and family members), would you feel guilty?Maybe this is a better question. Does what happen here affect your future?
Posted by John Titor on 02-05-2001 02:09 PM
Yes, there is a log and my report and debriefing will agree with it. I have no reason to lie about where I am and why I’m here.
There are no crimes against time. However, if I were to go on some sort of a murder spree and I admitted it when I returned, then I would be held responsible for the crime of murder.
I am no more able to affect your world-line than you are. Yes, I could make the changes you suggested but you must remember that there are an infinite number of world-lines out there where I didn’t and I don’t. In fact, there’s even a world-line out there where you’re the time traveler and I’m the one writing the question.
I think the war would be good for you and your society. I don’t want to stop it.
Nothing I do here will affect any other world-line. “My” original world-line will always be the same and yes I can make changes here that would make this world-line different from mine but so can you.
Posted by Chris McWhirt on 02-05-2001 05:56 PM
John,1) What effect will following technologies have
MEMs(microelectromechanicals)quantum computersfuel cells2) Which GE group builds time machine?
Posted by Mike Kolesnik on 02-05-2001 07:48 PM
… and how many Suckers he reels in!People, I can’t belive your gullibility.Please apply some basic Common Sense, Logicand a detective’s view of “John’s” statements.Before I waste more of my precious time uncovering this Fakir I need some help from any of you. I’m looking for at least ONE post where the poster has gone thru “John’s” statements and found some contradictions. (there are MANY)
I need to know if any of you are worth saving from this *Prophet*Who is “John”
(1) A bored college student (or group) on a dare or assignment?
(2) A former Y2k doom and gloomer finding a new flock?
(3) A Member of Skeptical Enquirer playing an early April Fool’s Joke?
(4) A mentally disturbed individual enjoying his 15 minutes of Fame?
(5) I real time traveler? (HA! see below)
Some Items:(In spite of Star Trek storylines)
(1)There are NO “alternate world-lines” There are ONLY Possibilities and Probabilities. One of the Possibilities MAY occur and, one and ONLY one of the Probabilities WILL occur. There are NO multiple world-lines, histories, or whatever occurring at this or any time. There are no proven, half-proven, or .001% proven data for multiple Earths.There are only Star Trekein blabberings.
Once an event occurs it NEVER changes( except for What special happenings?- you should know this John!)
(2) Hey “John”, show me the symbol and formula for the relationship between Gravity and Magnetism. It should be child’s play for you and a fundamental part of ANY TT machine. It is Quite simple.
(3) I know a certain FACT about time travel, you haven’t mentioned it and it is an absolutely VITAL part of TT. Tell me what it is. I’ll give you a hint: It has TWO special requirements!——————
WAKE UP PEOPLE AND THINK FOR YOURSELF!!!!
Posted by Kathleen Sander on 02-05-2001 11:15 PM
Do you live within the vicinity of your 2-year old self? Have you seen yourself face to face or do you have any intentions of doing so?
Posted by Kevin Spooner on 02-06-2001 04:05 AM
AngryDear Mike Kolesnik,Either you are a person who knows about time travel in the flesh so to speak or you contradict yourself by making out hat you do. You have challenged John Titor into revealing specific answers which you claim to have current knowledge of. Further you make yourself out to be some kind of ‘saviour’ wondering if any of us require ‘saving’ so long as we meet your expectations of us. Even more you state there are contradictions in John’s writing.Personally I don’t need saving from you and in fact I am not following lines of gullibility. Rather I too have asked direct questions and placed challenges to all time travelers.Further, any segmented regular writing of this nature on any BBS will create natural discrepencies – even I suspect in your own and mine to boot. Such is life in the slow lane with us mere mortals.Please place here you seal of Godliness incarnate for others to marvel at and rather than attack others (which is not in keeping with fair play) please feel free to join our quest for knowledge… which I suspect you are attempting to do in a rather vicious manner.God bless and may knowledge strike us like a wet fish soon !
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-06-2001 06:05 AM
((“There are NO “alternate world-lines” There are ONLY Possibilities and Probabilities. One of the Possibilities MAY occur and, one and ONLY one of the Probabilities WILL occur. There are NO multiple world-lines, histories, or whatever occurring at this or any time. There are no proven, half-proven, or .001% proven data for multiple Earths.”))
I’m trying to figure out why I haven’t seen Mike Kolesnik’s name in any of the esteemed journals that debate Time Travel. You know, the one’s chaired by graduates of MIT, Princeton, Yale, Stanford…? Surely having the answers to the nature of ”reality” would be worth pursuing with others whose careers are based on research. Isn’t this the same type of reasoning used by debunkers against anything THEY find unreasonable?C’mon Mike, unsnit those panties and ask yourself why you care whether this is true or not.AS far as Mr. Titor is concerned … How do you finance your excursion? I would venture its not totally on the level with current financial accounting procedures.That said, I apologize, though I feel I have to withhold some of my investigative curiosities, as I have a niece who is exactly your age and I could sense the possibility of a confluence that at this point which could precipitate greater than expected divergences.Around the mid-nineties I came to my conclusion re: the “isobaric” nature of both gravity and time. Like anything, I suspect the gradients involved are minuscule by our finite standards, though 10% or 15% divergence over 60 years sounds about right.
Posted by John Titor on 02-06-2001 06:35 AM
[[[ATTENTION! The following is a secret message for all mindless robot slaves controlled by time travelers. If you are unable to read this, please disregard it. This is an emergency, can someone do me a favor and look up everything they can find on Maxwell’s equations, relativity and the formulas for volts and amps. I left all my physics books back in the time machine…and remember, just because I control your mind doesn’t mean I think you’re an idiot. MESSAGE OVER.]]]
Yes, there are significant advances in computer science. It’s interesting how easy it is to be fixated on the “machine” itself without any curiosity about many of the support systems. This is not really big news but if / then is out and if /then /maybe is in.
Yes I am with the “me” on this world-line and he is three now. I find that fact to be rather hard for people to get along with so I don’t bring it up directly. This is the second time I have “met myself”.
The “machine” is owned by the military. I am part of a unit stationed in Tampa Florida.
The real energy is in creating the machine, not operating it. It’s interesting you should bring up the divergence percentage. You may find it…entertainingly interesting to know that the divergence can be more accurate with more sensitive gravity sensors and clocks. The C206 uses 6 Cesium clocks and an active method of timing the changes in the atom.
Posted by James Boley on 02-06-2001 06:47 AM
Why does your kind time travel?You mentioned that in the future, or in your future for the sake of the argument, that you still believe in God. How does God play in these infinite number of ‘time lines’. Are there infinite number of Gods? One for each timeline?How does a persons soul play into this? Are you suggesting there are infinite number of my souls around?
Posted by Charlotte Boren on 02-06-2001 07:11 AM
(1) Who wins the Triple Crown for the next 20 years?(2) Who will be elected president for the next 20 years?(3) Will there still be Harley-Davidsons around when you are born?(4) Please list the price of gold for the last 20 of your years and I can tell you the condition of the stock market in the future.(5) Will it still be fairly lawful for me to own and use handguns when are beginning your time travel adventures?(6) Is it possible for you to bump into yourself when you are time travelling? Saw a Jean Claude Van Dam movie about that once. I think it was called “Time Cop”. Whatever you do, don’t shake hands with yourself, if you do meet. You melt.(7) I go on vacation in May. Can I go with you the next time you leap? I have an ex-husband I want to punch in the nose when he walks up to the 1981 me the first time we met and says “Hi.” I’ll get the 1981 me pushed out of the way with a 1981 broom or something. It won’t take much to convince the 1981 me that this is the 2001 her. I know her past too well—regrets and happiest moments. (Wonders if Scott Bakula is just as cute today as he was in “Quantum Leap”.)[Edited by Charlotte Boren on 02-06-2001 at 07:23 AM]
Posted by John Titor on 02-06-2001 08:33 AM
We time travel to solve problems. A great deal of effort is going into repairing the environment and infrastructure.
I think there is only one God. I also think that our soul may be a combination of all the collective thoughts and actions of the infinite “yous”. If that is true, it becomes very difficult to define death until all worldlines come to an end.
[(1) Who wins the Triple Crown for the next 20 years?]
I don’t know. Even if I did, you could stop the horse(s) anyway and make it untrue.
(2) Who will be elected president for the next 20 years?
Please see number 2.
(3) Will there still be Harley-Davidsons around when you are born?
I was born in 1998.
(4) Please list the price of gold for the last 20 of your years and I can tell you the condition of the stock market in the future.
I don’t understand the importance of this type of information. Please tell me your opnion why this is interesting and worth remembering for 30 years.
(5) Will it still be fairly lawful for me to own and use handguns when are beginning your time travel adventures?
I thought owning a handgun was legal in the United States? Yes, being familiar with firearms (along with the other responsibilities of the Constitution) becomes an important part of people’s lives in thirty years.
(6) Is it possible for you to bump into yourself when you are time travelling? Saw a Jean Claude Van Dam movie about that once. I think it was called “Time Cop”. Whatever you do, don’t shake hands with yourself, if you do meet.
Yes that is possible and there are no limitations on interacting with them. I find it interesting that there is some sort of collective negativity with the idea of doing that. Could it be that we are not really that comfortable with ourselves and therefore we cannot imagine meeting, liking or helping another one of us on another worldline?
(7) I go on vacation in May. Can I go with you on your journeys through time? Anybody else want to go along?
I could probably manage three people with me. However, I would have to dump a great deal of archival material to get you in. I’m not sure you would like 2036 very much.
Posted by Matt Hagemeier on 02-06-2001 02:33 PM
John, the life you desrribe in 2036, sounds very much like life my grandparents described in the WW2 era. interesting indeed.What was the reason for Russia’s involvement in the civil war? Why did they bomb China and Europe?
Did the U.S counter attack with their own nuclear weapons?
Posted by John Lensk on 02-06-2001 03:25 PM
QuestionDear John,I am very intrigued by your story, but some things don't make very much sense to me. This IBM 5100 computer you talk of having to go back in time to get is the first thing that does not make sense to me.
What does the old 5100 computer do that computers of your time isn't able to do?
I'm sure the future will have a wide use of emulation technology, in which you could easily emulate this old computer and all of its uses. What would the original computer do that an emulated version of it not be able to do?
Posted by Kathleen Sander on 02-07-2001 01:02 AM
Could your parents tell something seemed familiar about you or have you only seen your 3-year old self? I guess you would have to re-meet your parents and be a friend of the family. Any changes in how children are taught? Education still “taught” in a classroom?
Posted by James Boley on 02-08-2001 08:27 AM
I still don’t buy your story. There are inconsistencies that are to large to write off.Some of the first posts you mentioned that you hoped your story would be at least interesting. It is.
Posted by John Titor on 02-08-2001 09:40 AM
Russia and China have always had a very strange relationship. Even the news I see now indicates that continued weapons deals to allies, border clashes and overpopulation will lead to hostilities.
The West will become very unstable which gives China the confidence to “expand”. I’m assuming you are all aware that China has millions of male soldiers right now that they know will never be able to find wives.
The attack on Europe is in response to a unified European army that masses and moves East from Germany. Also, please be aware that from my viewpoint, Russia attacked my enemy who was in the U.S. cities.
Yes, the U.S. did counter attack.
Based on what I know about the 5100, it has a few very interesting and worthwhile properties that make it worthwhile for a time traveler to recover. Also, please keep in mind that civilization is recovering from a war. Yes, we do have the technology but many of the tools were lost.
As you are probably aware, UNIX will have a timeout error in 2038 and many of the mainframe systems that ran a large part of the infrastructure were based on very old IBM computer code.
The 5100 has the ability to easily translate between the old IBM code, APL, BASIC and (with a few tweaks in 1975) UNIX. This may seem insignificant but the fact that the 5100 is portable means I can easily take it back to 2036. I do expect they will create some sort of emulation system to use in multiple locations.
When I arrived, I approached my father and was easily able to prove to him who I was. I am currently with my parents and the “me” who is three. They are very aware of what I am doing, why I am here and when I will be leaving.
It may interest you to know that my father still does not truly believe the machine works even after touching and seeing it.
Yes, education is still taught in a classroom but the entire focus and system looks nothing like what you have now. Don’t worry, you won’t miss it.
((I still don’t buy your story. There are inconsistancies that are to large to write off…))
I understand your viewpoint and I respect it. However, I am confused by a twist in the way the language is used. Another fellow who posted earlier was a bit upset over what I was saying because he thought I was soon going to ask for money by selling something. Since I don’t have anything to sell I am curious why, “I…don’t buy your story”, is the natural way to say what you did. I am aware that it’s off the cuff to say but wouldn’t it be better to say I don’t believe your story?
Why is the other way so common?
Posted by James Boley on 02-08-2001 10:01 AM
I don’t believe your story.
Posted by Matt Hagemeier on 02-08-2001 10:52 AM
John, Does the U.S still have adversaries or “outside” threats 2036? If so, who, what, and why?Korea United?How does the U.S media cover the civil war? Is it unibased or does it favor one side?Are you creating a alternate timeline by just interacting with us?
Posted by Jack Stansbury on 02-08-2001 11:40 AM
Everyone that is reading or posting wants to what the future has in store for them and their family and friends. John only can tell us that he is from 2036. Well John give us some good stuff. That’s all we want. We need meat .Jack
Posted by Thurstan Davies on 02-08-2001 01:13 PM
Dear John Titor,Thank-you for your interesting forum entries.I am currently living and working in the Middle East and I imagine that I will become one of the 3 Billion that die during WWIII.I am not asking if I will die or how the Middle East fairs during the conflicts.I am though interested in the patern of exchange of fire, in that you mentioned US, Russia, China and Europe.You didn’t mention Australia… if this continent survived unscathed or in fact any other land, would this be a better place, in your time, to gather the resources you require ?RegardsThurstan
Posted by John Titor on 02-08-2001 01:18 PM
I would characterize world politics as two boxers who have just gone multiple rounds and they’re both pretty beat up. I’m sure someone out there wants to kill us but no one is very organized yet. There is a great deal of fear over rogue groups coming across un-launched missile systems, 55 gallon drums of Anthrax or portable nuclear weapons.
((Korea United?))
I guess you could say that. Taiwan, Japan and Korea were all “forcefully annexed” before N Day.
I don’t remember a great deal about media coverage during the civil conflicts. I would probably characterize it the same way you see coverage of Waco, Ruby Ridge and Elian Gonzalez.
From my viewpoint, yes, this is an alternate timeline. From your viewpoint, no.
I have thought again about how to revel information that would make me more believable but I always come across the following problems:
1.All of you become much less interesting as sheep. I can’t talk to you if you’re not skeptical.
2.Anything I say could be acted on beforehand and changed anyway.
3.All the really interesting information is months or years away and I’d be gone when it happens.
4.I find it morally wrong to assist someone with anything where they might gain and someone else would lose or die.
5.There’s a slim chance your worldline is just different enough my “prediction” won’t happen.
6.I simply don’t know.
Consider that you are a time traveler who goes back in time to the first week of February 1970 and you are confronted with the same problem. What do you remember right now about the second week of February 1970?
Naturally, the conflict in Vietnam and the Middle East come up but as someone has already stated here, “that’s old news”. I suppose I could predict the failure of Apollo 13 spacecraft but since time travel is ridiculous, I would be blamed for sabotage. I might even decide to tell you about an earthquake in Peru but then people that would have died by chance will now live and vice versa.
All I can think of is to make something up. So here goes…. The space shuttle mission may or may not have a problem connecting the new lab to the space station.
How was that?
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-08-2001 01:22 PM
“Buying a Story” means “I don’t buy what you’re selling”.
It’s a reaction to a preoccupation we have with issues of “Trust” …because we have so many interactions with “others” i.e. people who aren’t a part of our immediate inner circles.
There’s a wariness that “another” is deceiving us in some manner, either to con us (gain our confidence for some gain – possibly financial) or work their way into our inner circles and cause some form of havoc.
Therefore their story is up for judgement as to whether it is worth “banking on”. EG – You may think you could have some sort or beneficial effect by telling people how things may turn out in the future? Don’t bank on it.Art Bell use to have an archive of the night that he had an open line for Time Travelers. I have to say that much of what I listened to, rang true with my own “prophetic” thoughts.So, this enemy that was attacked in the US by Russia, was it Islamic in nature?What it IT (Ginger)? The buzz is that it revolutionizes transportation. What change happened in the early ’00s that relates to this?I want to get into the Automated Home technologies business. Any suggestions? Please e-mail me 🙂
Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-08-2001 01:53 PM
LightbulbJohn,Again I have to congratulate you on your perceived high level of intelligence, and I don’t doubt that you may indeed be a physics professor or just some guy who gets off misleading others.You stated:“2.Anything I say could be acted on beforehand and changed anyway.”Not true at all…not *anything*…just a few days ago there was an attempt at Bush’s life, surely that’s going to be a significant historical event. It’s the first attack/assassination attempt on the president of the new millennium.
Hmmm, yeah, you could have warned us days ago about, and it may have been changed, and not happened…but that’s very very doubtful.
At the time, no one would have taken you seriously anyway…but if you had of predicted that, and it happened, then even I would likely believe you now.
Or what about telling us something like a hollywood story of someone breaking up, or getting married, good luck trying to change that…or of a company’s profits…SOMETHING…You are VERY evasive, and you don’t give even a single “iota” of evidence…nothing…nadda…zero. I remember you saying that your point of this was to come on and get people to at least accept the possibility of time travel, well no kidding, great time traveler…sheesh..
Look at what message board you are on!! many including myself certainly believe that it’s possible, but all you do is give fantastic stories and shrug off any attempt at evidence with your lame excuses. What all of us on here want is the truth, not science fiction.“3.All the really interesting information is months or years away and I’d be gone when it happens.”Hey, we’ll be the judge of that there John. That’s not the point whether the information is interesting, that’s subjective, the point is that you should prove yourself. It’s true that you claim to be a scientist right? Well isn’t one of the aims of scientists is to prove to *others* of their hypothesis or theory. Even if you’re not one, you should still make an *attempt* at trying to prove yourself.“4.I find it morally wrong to assist someone with anything where they might gain and someone else would lose or die.”</em>
OK fine…so why don’t tell us a way in which we can save lives or help people without harming others…like of car accidents…what plane trip not to take…etc?! And don’t come back with the cliched, “well it wouldn’t be morally right to change the future”…you are morally obligated to help someone if you can stop it!! You can’t argue with that.John, why don’t you quit claiming that you’re from the future and actually make any attempt to prove that you are…This is scary almost, does this guy actually believe in what he says? or did Art hire some science fiction just to keep these boards interesting? There’s obviously some deception going on here…
Posted by Matt Hagemeier on 02-08-2001 02:03 PM
John. are you saying there isn’t enough skepticism on this board? Fom what I observe, the skeptics on here out number us “sheep”.There is no way I can know if you are real time traveler, I’m asking you questions because I’m interested in your answers.My rational, logical mind says you are nothing but a bored cyber geek with a lot of “time” (no pun intended) on your hands, however, part of me also wants to believe that time travel is (or will be) a reality as it has always been a fascination of mine.I know there is much more to the Universe that I can possibly understand, therefore, my mind always will be open to new possibilities.
Posted by Louis D’Avenio on 02-08-2001 02:25 PM
Thumbs downJohn,When does your creative writing course end?????????
Posted by Jack Stansbury on 02-08-2001 02:47 PM
Mr. John the time merchant is he selling truth or lies??
The members of this BBS are people that want to believe, We aren’t stupid. John give us the respect that we have given to you. Please tell the truth. However if it is true you are just a geek tell the members so. The truth will set you free !!!!!!!!!
Posted by D’Wayne Bolton on 02-08-2001 02:50 PM
As the 38? year old that you are today, do you remember yourself showing up and visiting yourself as a three year old?
Are your parents still living in 2036?
Have they ever mentioned your having time traveled back to see them in 2001?
Posted by Jason Plett on 02-08-2001 05:24 PM
QuestionMr. Titor, I find this fascinating. Perhaps, if you do not mind, I would enjoy a ride in your time device. I am sure you wouldn’t mind me taking a spin into the future a few years. If you are ever in the Denver area let me know I would like to interview you and take a ride in your machine.
Posted by Robert A. Cook on 02-08-2001 05:42 PM
Yep, Jason hit the nail right on the head, didn’t he?I too would like to take a ride in the rumble seat of your time machine.I would like to visit the late ‘fifties and early ‘sixties. I’d like to have coffee with my father and my uncle, with spray-painted gold lamps overhead, encrusted with plastic jewels.I’d like to watch them smoke their pipes and cigarettes unmolested, and discuss the simple issues of their time.Sadly, I believe time travel is bull***t.I wish it were otherwise.
Posted by John Lensk on 02-08-2001 06:45 PM
QuestionJohn is there anything you can let us know about the future? I know you are doing the whole “not gonna tell any real information due to money being made off betting on the information you tell us”. But can you just name some people who will be major tv stars or movie stars, or future major politicians or major companies? Or even other major technologies besides the obvious that we aren't aware of?
Posted by John Titor on 02-08-2001 06:59 PM
This post addresses what I have seen before the last three. I enjoy the conversation and I will respond.
The “pattern” of exchange in the war will not be a surprise.Many people will perish as a result of starvation and disease. I would also submit that you already know if you’re safe or not. The trick is to not turn off your fear when you’ll need it the most.
Australia is sort of interesting in what is unknown. After the war, they were not very cooperative or friendly (can’t blame them really). It is known they did repulse a Chinese invasion and most of their cities were hit. They have a trading relationship with the U.S. but I would characterize them as reclusive and ticked off.
When people use phrases like “See what I mean”, “You’re not hearing what I’m saying” or “Something smells fishy”, they are indicating the primary sense they use to process information about a situation.
I find it interesting that my credibility and the phrases that describe it hinge on economic terms and whether or not I have something to sell. I don’t. I also don’t know how to clarify my position any better so I would suggest that if what I say angers you, it might be best to just consider it fiction. Soon you’ll get bored and I will leave in a few months. Either way, it won’t be an issue.
The “enemy” that was attacked by Russia in the U.S. was the forces of the government you live under right now.
((…or just some guy who gets off misleading others.))
I do not seek followers to mislead. I seek safety, animosity and good conversation.
(2). To me it would seem obvious that we both have a very different perspective on what’s important right now in 2001. I would think that’s what makes our interaction interesting. Would I be anymore believable if I told you I had just stopped a horrible event and you won’t hear about it because it didn’t happen? Again, this is the second time it has come up and I am very curious. Why would you expect a time traveler to know or care about what happens in Hollywood or some individual companies profits? You seem to think I have tomorrow’s paper in front of me. Is that what time travel means to you?
(3) I never said I was a scientist. If this is about economics somehow and you hope to “buy” my story, then what do I gain by “selling” it?
(5) You already know that cars are dangerous and planes crash. I’m very confident you are capable of killing yourselves without my intervention. Actually, my moral obligation has nothing to do with you, it’s between me and God.
Deception? Exactly what standard do you use to measure the truth around you? I have seen other threads with amazing and potentially real experiences on them. Why am I more threatening?
I have no memory of meeting an older me as a three year old. The events between world-lines are isolated and nothing I do here will affect my world-line. Yes, my parents are alive in 2036 but they have no experience with a time traveling “me” in their 2001 either.
Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-08-2001 09:39 PM
CoolHi John:I’ve read all the postings here and I sense that what we have here is a failure to communicate. It’s been my experience that the majority of posters on this board are genuinely open minded, and ready to believe. Actually I’m intrigued by the escalating level of frustration being experienced here, and wonder where it’s going.In my opinion you have sparked a good discussion here. If you are from the future, then we all have something to learn from you. If you are not, then it’s a good game of cat and mouse, and since audience participation is not mandatory, I really have no reason to be upset with you. For me the challenge here is two-fold.
(1) To try and somehow get you to validate yourself without violating your ethics.
(2) To try to get you to trip yourself up, and prove yourself a hoax.
Either way in the end we all get what we wanted.Rather than degenerating into a “let’s get John mob” I propose we try to devise creative lines of questioning to get to the bottom of the “John Titor” story.I don’t believe animosity is a requirement for a satisfying excercise in thinking. We do need to level the playing field so it would be helpful if you would agree to a few “rules of sportsmanship” (pardon the P.I. sexist reference).You have more than once noted your disdain for our colloquialisms and cultural inclinations. This is inherently unfair, and you should give it some thought. You being the “TT”, have an unfair advantage here.
We do live in an economy based society and it’s natural for us to use terms like, “Im sold”. You used the term “off the cuff” in your comments about “buying in”, does this mean in the future “cuffs” have some cultural significance? or is it simply a familiar concept? ….food for thought.I of course only speak for myself, so here are my questions.
Is John Titor your real name? (just kidding)2. What is the name of your locality/State/Country?3. Are you a free man?4. Have civil liberties become more significant?5. Do you live in a racist society?6. What is your form of government?7. Would you be considered a member of the Patriot movement today?8. In your time, have people developed their spirituality?9. Do you know what happens when you die in your time?10. If any what is the predominant religion?11. Did Jesus come back?12. Did we send manned missions to Mars?13. What did we find on Mars?14. Did we colonize the Moon?15. Are we currently being bombarded by mind control devices?16. Is Psionics a part of your every day life?17. Is Europe made up of feudal states?18. Did the N.W.O turn out to be real? or just vapor?19. Do you have teleportation for the average citizen?20. Was AIDS created by the government?21. Are there gays in the military?22. Are there gay people in your time?23. What is your race?24. Is there a Movie industry?25. Is VR legal?26. What is the average lifespan?27. Why are you still using paper money?28. As far as you know who is the most significant figure of the 21st century.29. Do you use Tesla technology?30. Given the differentials values you quoted, why can’t your technology compensate by offsetting the target coordinates so the error puts you in the correct “world time”?31. Do you have the death penalty?32. What is the most common crime commited?33. Is race mixing allowed?34. Is cloning common practice?35. What is the racial make up of the continental U.S.36. Is there segregation?37. What is your education system like?38. What is the woman’s role in your time?39. Are there equal rights?40. What sort of birth control do you practice?41. Are there same sex marriages?42. What happened to South America?43. Are there recreational drugs?44. Do you remember the Beatles?45. What is the name of the Pope? (name changes)
If you answer these questions you will not violate any of your rules except for question #1, so I’ll retract that one.That’s my 2 centsPS: If you need a real web site I can give you one, all to yourself, for as long as you stay in our time line. E-mail me if you want it.
Posted by Charles Moltrup on 02-08-2001 11:30 PM
How close does asteroid 2000SG344 come to earth in the year 2030 I will be 78 years old by then and want to find a big rock to hide under. PS my time machine works all the time i call it the human mind it takes me to any time line I want and it runs on Imagination. see ya around
Posted by Thurstan Davies on 02-09-2001 01:44 AM
Dear John Titor,Thank-you for your words :“I would also submit that you already know if you’re safe or not. The trick is to not turn off your fear when you’ll need it the most.”After some pondering over your kind reply, I did smile at your words and I did need to hear them, how ever many times I do hear them from one source or another…May I ask one question, when you saw my name “Thurstan” did you recognize it, I won’t ask why or how, or where, just if.Once again Thank-you, I hope your project succeeds before ’38.Best RegardsThurstan
Posted by D’Wayne Bolton on 02-09-2001 06:32 AM
Many of the above questions are answered in preceeding posts.
If John is from the future, let’s keep his interest and not bore him with the same questions over and over and over and over again.
However, some of the questions are new and I too would like to hear the answers.
Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-09-2001 10:45 AM
John,Unless you’ve been here for the last 10 years or so, how would know how we have seen the media coverage of Waco(94?),Ruby Ridge(93?), Elian?
Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-09-2001 11:11 AM
John,I must say that I am impressed as to how calm you remain, then again, that only helps to make you even more believable.
When I was referring to plane crashes, I meant you should be able to tell us of near-future air disasters and their flight numbers, so we can warn anyone that we may know, thus saving their lives. What is so unreasonable about that?
Anyway, I am not totally clear on your point, of being here as your main one was already shown to be redundant (getting us to at least accept the possibility of TT), so what it’s going to be now?
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-09-2001 12:33 PM
I would say if this is all legit – and I’m leaning that way as I would rather it be, and I have nothing at stake – that the whole issue is very much about divergence.
On certain levels divergences matter very little.
For instance, did it really matter whether you got gas, last Thurs., at an AMPM (amp ’em) or a Chevromn Quik Mart?
If a timeline was altered and on a new line you found yourself gassing up at a Texaco Food Mart AFTER you went to the Library, as opposed the AM/PM (amp ’em) before you went to the school board meeting – would it matter?
Suppose you went back in time and suggested to your bonehead cousin that he should get a job at the new service center down the street. And he met some girl there, they got married and now you get to visit them once every year in LAs Vegas?
Suppose you suggested he try telemarketing at 1 800 RIGHT-IN-THE MIDDLE-OF-DINNER and he lasted 3.5 weeks and then found a job in Vegas dealing cards and then met some girl there.
I guess my point is that different divergences have different “loads” of importance.Enough … though true freedom means looking at these consequences on a more continual basis than one would have if one were used to a more routinized existence. I find this whole topic of divergence to be the more intriguing topic (though I would like to know what Chinese pop culture will look like.)
Posted by John Titor on 02-09-2001 02:02 PM
For all of you interested in coming back with me to 2036, perhaps we should discuss the trip.
Please be aware, the displacement unit moves through time, not space.
First, we will be driving the current vehicle (Chevy truck) with the displacement unit in it to Tampa Florida. From there, we will go back to my arrival date on this world-line. Then we will have to drive to Minnesota, sell the current vehicle and get another one that would have been around in 1975. We will then move the displacement unit (500 lbs or so) into the new vehicle and go back to 1975. Once in 1975, we’ll drive back to Tampa and make the final hop to 2036. If you’d like to stay in 1975, you’re welcome to do that.
It can also get quite hot and stuffy during the trip and you’ll be subjected to a 1.5 to 2 G force the entire time. You’ll also need some sort of a re-breather system or oxygen supply.
I have found that many misunderstandings and arguments are based on the differences in understanding over a single word. Two different cultures can have a drastic impact on the meaning of words like “proof”, “trust” and “credibility”. My frustration is in understanding the use of the words. I am trying to follow the logic of all of the comments.
After reading the questions, I want to paint a picture that may help with the general theme of our collective experience in 2036.
The war had very profound affects on people and how they relate to each other. As individuals, almost everyone in 2036 is very familiar with death. We all have stories of loved ones that have died from disease, war or acts of inhumanity. Most of us have even taken part in dishing the same thing out to the other side. As a result, we have become far more compassionate to the ones we love but mush less forgiving to those who don’t pull their weight. We are more accepting of other’s differences in our community because we depend on them to survive. We are also more conservative with our resources and closer to God because for a period, life on Earth was Hell.
The other major difference is in the concept of good and evil.
With multiple worlds come multiple decisions and outcomes. For every good act, there is an equal and possible bad act on another world-line. Taken to the extreme, this must mean that in God’s eyes, there is no total good and total bad in the superverse. It balances itself out to infinity.
I believe we are judged on the decisions we make as individuals and the good/evil I see on my world-line is an illusion that has no worth to God. My reaction to it is what’s important to God. Although this may seem rather heartless, it does allow me to see past the evil that people do and acknowledge the core of potential goodness inside them.
(2) I am currently based in Tamp Florida in Hillsborough County.
(3) Yes I am free but I have obligations as a citizen. Everyone is required to have basic military training and provide a period of time for community service. It is very much like a type of mandatory National Guard service + Peace Corps.
(4) Yes civil liberties are more important. You will feel the same after having your house searched a couple of times.
(5) We do not live in a racist society but definitely a prejudiced one. Everyone carries their own water.
(6) Our government looks very much like yours. It is a representative republic.
(7) My definition of a patriot is anyone who defends the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
(8) Religion has become far less centralized. Extremes tend to bring you closer to God so I would characterize religion and spirituality as a much more of a personal institution.
(9) I do not know what happens when we die. However, I don’t think it will be easy. There may be some very difficult decisions we have to make when we die that we are totally unprepared for.
(10) It’s difficult to define the most predominant religion. Christianity has fragmented into many groups and people with different beliefs speak mush more openly with others who have different outlooks and opinions. I would imagine there are large groups of Hindus, Buddhists and Muslims but I have not come across them personally.
(11) No, Jesus did not come back. At least not that I’m aware of. If or when Jesus returns, do you think he’ll be a lamb or a lion?
(12) No mission to Mars but we are working on it. There is a group working on the idea of gravity displacement to get into space but the calculations and error rate are very large obstacles to overcome.
(13) We don’t know what’s on Mars yet.
(14) We’re not on the moon yet either. A great deal of technical effort is going into cleaning the planet up.
(15) I’m not aware of any “mind control” devices being used on you now. However, there are a great many “non lethal” weapon systems in development that turn out to be quite lethal. Sometimes I watch your television programs that show SWAT teams using new non-lethal weapons. They usually start out with, “In the future, the army and police will fight its enemies with new weapons systems…” When they use the word “enemy”, they’re talking about YOU! You don’t really think the Marines are going to jump out of helicopters overseas with sticky goop, pepper spray and seizure lights, do you?
(16) I’m not familiar with the term Psionics. I’ll look it up and see if we just have another word for it.
(17) Yes, Europe is a mess.
(18) Yes, I think the New World Order idea tried to establish itself. I would consider them the combination of the old U.S. federal system, Europe, Canada and Australia.
(19) When you say “teleportation”, I assume you mean public transportation. Yes, we have a basic high-speed system.
(20) I don’t know if the government created AIDS. I tend to think yes but controlling it escaped them as it mutated. You can’t have conspiracy to limit the population with a disease without the cure.
(21) Yes, homosexuals are in the army. You tend to look past the individual differences of people when their job is to protect your life.
(22) Yes, there are “gay” people in 2036.
(23) I am a white male.
(24) Yes, there is an entertainment industry. Again, it is very decentralized. The technology to express yourself with video is so readily available that many people do it all by themselves or in small groups. Much of the distribution is over the web. I would compare it theater here.
(25) I don’t know what you mean by VR?
(26) The average lifespan is about 60 but I expect that will improve as we get things cleaned up.
(27) Yes, paper money is still widely used.
(28) The 21st century has awhile to go but the most significant person in my opinion is the farmer-general who led us to victory.
(29) Even for you Tesla technology can be found in appliances, motors and generators. I would have to say we have come a long way on Tesla’s foundation but we don’t have electricity rays that cause earthquakes.
(30) Getting back to my exact world-line of origin is impossible but it depends on how you define the correct world-line. I can get close enough so neither I nor anyone there would know the difference. It relates to the classic example of cutting a distance in half to reach it. You can always get closer but never there. It also has a lot do with neighboring universes on Penrose diagrams but that requires more math.
(31) Yes, we have the death penalty. We also have public punishment.
(32) The most common crime is theft.
(33) I don’t understand what you mean by “race mixing”.
(34) Cloning is not common. However, altering the sperm and egg cell are common. It is very difficult to have children in 2036 for environmental reasons.
(35) It’s hard to say what the exact racial make up of the U.S. is. I would say it’s probably the same minus 130 million people or so.
(36) No, there is no segregation.
(37) The education system is very similar to yours but the organization and implementation is controlled on a community and county level. Various communities also specialize in certain disciplines.
(38)(39) My comments on equal rights and “women’s roles” could be quite lengthy and controversial. I wish to discuss that separately. However, women do fight in the military just as the men do but their role on the community level is very conservative.
(40) Having children is such a serious issue in 2036 that birth control is almost unheard of. It is very difficult and precious to have and raise children. Again, this is an issue I will be happy to go into later.
(41) Yes, there are same sex marriages but it’s not very common. Again, people have lived through so much hardship that if what someone else is doing does not affect them or harm the community, it’s not a big issue.
(42) South America went relatively unharmed. However, there is still a great deal of internal conflict with conventional arms.
(43) Yes, people use drugs that alter consciousness but they are not very common.
(44) Yes, I know who the Beatles are. Old music and other entertainment is available on the web.
(45) There is another Pope but I do not know his name.
(46) I do remember the name Thurstan. Isn’t that a character on a television program about people stranded on a desert island?
(47) I do believe that “you’re” UNIX will also have a problem in 2038. I don’t think that’s a secret but maybe someone should put a 5100 aside for thirty years or so.
John
Posted by Brett Fredrico on 02-09-2001 07:04 PM
LightbulbOne Question for the time traveler….You mention a full scale nuclear weapons deployment as a result of WWIII. You also mention that electronics, computers, and even the Internet still functioning some time after that.
Can you explain how these devices (and more importantly the facilities that made them) withstood the EMP air-bursts associated with any full scale nuclear war?
Every electronic device would be inoperable after such an event and it would take decades (if even possible) to rebuild the infrastructure to allow for the building of an electric razor, let alone an Internet.
Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-09-2001 07:16 PM
Thumbs upJohn,First, thanks for the insightful answers. I have to admit that the overall picture you paint, sounds very real, and sobering. As you accurately detected my questions were really an exercise in profiling.
You are either from the future as you say, or you are the next Robert Heinlein.As for me, in as much as I have been given to understand by your answers you don’t have the mentality of a hoaxer. Actually you sound like a 30 something, militia member who has experienced much hardship, and your calm yet aggressive demeanor indicates you are accustomed to making difficult decisions.
Your “skirting” of the “equality” issue and your use of the word “prejudiced” is indicative of the kind of hard, post war climate you claim to be from, and the measures that would be required for survival. I assume your comment “everyone carries their own water” was both literal and figurative? and is the equivalent of “our” “you have to carry your own weight”?As a programmer, the UNIX issue you refer to is a bit of a problem. I write code in APL, PLI, Lisp, C, C++, VB, Fortran , Cobol, smalltalk, Java, Python, and a slew of less known languages. The 2038 “bug” is about as dangerous as the Y2K bug. I can “with a little tweaking” do anything with a computer that can be done with a computer. I assume there are programmers in 2036, that being the case, a “good programmer” can fix your Y2K38 date inconsistency.
As for the undocumented IBM design modification in the 5100, I know nothing so I can’t comment there.The new .net platform from microsoft has the capability to integrate all the languages you mentioned + all the ones I mentioned. Would it not be easier to write in the original language instead of having a machine translation?Can you tell me how your UNIX differs from ours?As for proof, I don’t think any is forthcoming that would be “conclusive”.At this point I have no concrete reason to disbelieve anything you say save for standard skepticism.I’d like to discuss some current technology with you in private if you have the time. If you can E-mail me I’d appreciate it.Good luck John, you’re an interesting person, thanks for the conversation.Thurston Howell is the name of a character on “Gilligan's Island”. for a definition of psionics you can check http://www.psi-ops.com.
If you guys can run windows, I have some software for you that would come in real handy in your time. (really!)
Posted by John Titor on 02-10-2001 09:49 AM
Waco, Ruby Ridge and Elian exist in your news archives. Telling you about impending place crashes or other disasters (provided I could give you exact dates and times) may save lives at one point but cause cascading changes that take others at a later point.
I enjoy the posts because it’s very hard to remain safe and have a conversation. I have often seen the classic question, “why don’t time travelers revel themselves’? That’s easy, if you believe us, you’ll drug us into oblivion and put us in a small dark cell while men in white lab coats take a Phillips head screw driver to the magnetic lock on the singularity drive housing.
I will examine the web site you mentioned. I believe the 5100 is unique in its ability to run assembler language on the 360-machine platform and still be portable. I’m not sure if that fact was ever made public so it’s the best “proof” I have. I would like to examine the software you mentioned; perhaps I can further justify my side-trip.
Yes, EMP took out a great number of electronic devices.
That’s one of the reasons why we don’t have reliable technology laying around. However, in the opening hours of N Day, the Russians did not launch any high altitude detonations. They knew we would most likely clean up after them so they wanted everyone outside the cities to be able to communicate. Most of the warheads that hit the cities came in threes and exploded close to the ground. The heavy EMP damage was isolated to those areas.
Actually, you will probably be quite impressed with our internet. It’s based on a series of independent, self-powered nodes that are mobile and can be put up anywhere. It looks a great deal like your current cell phone system.
Posted by Walt Moss on 02-11-2001 10:35 AM
(1) What is your opinion of Revelations in the New Testiment,Do you feel it related to the coming War?(2) Are you familiar with the Fatima Prophesies and were these achieved?(3) You mentioned earlier (I don’t know if it were hypothetical) that you were sent to change something here in 2000 or 2001, were you successful? and if you were it has already happened so could you go into detail as to what you did.(4) Was there an Antichrist, and was he part of the EU.Thanks for responce
Posted by Brett Fredrico on 02-11-2001 02:53 PM
QuestionI don’t know if you have answered this yet, but how did you learn about Art Bell? Is AM still mostly talk radio in your time? Lastly, what more do you know about UFOs and those pesky greys?
Posted by Angel Lynnn on 02-12-2001 12:42 AM
QuestionJohn,I have been reading the posts about you and your travels tonight and am fascinated.
Thank you so much for posting here and answering our questions.I wish you peace and happiness.
I would really like to know if hand made items are popular or liked in the year 2036. Are people still knitting and crocheting with their hands?
I am an avid crocheter and I’m very curious about this. I make hats, scarfs, purses, rugs, dish cloths, towels, etc…
Maybe you need a break from the IMPORTANT questions and you could indulge me…………Thank you, John for being you.Angel Lynnn
Posted by Kennith Viccars on 02-12-2001 09:20 AM
Hello,Just read through this thread and found it very interesting.I just had a couple questions…I’m from Calgary, Canada. What part will Canada have in the War? Specifically western Canada, should I get out and move to Fiji ?Do you think it’s very smart to be talking to people online?
I mean anyone could get your ip, with a few connections find your address and locate you. I know for a fact that a few “men in black” read this board. If they thought for a second that you were for real, they would be on your ass so fast, and your “Time Machine” would be in the hands of the US military my friend.I’m about 99.9% skeptical, but I do like the odd sci-fi story, and enjoy your writing. I don’t pity you for trying to convince the gullible hordes that flock this board. Everybody needs to feel “wanted”, and we all like to feel “special”. If this is your way of getting attention, I have no problem with it, no ones getting hurt.Thx John.
Posted by Don Hackman on 02-12-2001 09:23 AM
WinkI have put all my accounts in order and bought rebreathers etc. as instructed and have sent you all our credit cards.
Are you sure the 1/2 life of the radioactive fallout from WWIII is now / then safe in 2038 ? Should I bring tin foil?
Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-12-2001 09:27 AM
Questionplease forgive me if you have already responded to a similar question – but i am a very curious person & can not wait to ask this..just in case i forget.. my question:you say that you can not tell us when something of very little historical importance occurs.. because we may alter/change something & look to you as a phsycic of some sort.
perhaps, you could mention something that will happen very soon after you’ve just left.
no one will be able to contact you so what could they possibly change and/or ask you about? as someone has suggested: over time periods certain types of music run to the forfront of our society.
in the early 90’s it was grunge.. now it seems to be the bubbly pop teen sensations, i.e. backstreet boys & britney spears.. you couldn’t even answer the simple question of what will be the next ‘movement’ in music?
just something so simple as that.. couldn’t possibly have some profound affect on the future? & especially for just the people on this board..i have my doubts that they’d run out & “do something” about the fact that acid jazz (for instance) is the next big musical hit.. know what i mean?more questions: dunno if you’ve been asked this, but what are the areas least affected by the ww3 bombings ..you will probably not be able to answer that.. just going to see if you will anyway. another thing i wanted to mention was that even though you think because of one small thing you say may affect the future greatly, i assure you that 90% of the people.. will not take it seriously. so if you said: “the eastern shore will be most affected.”..i doubt that in 2012 everyone will swarm to the west. of the large population our world has.. it is very small in comparison to the population of -this-board-..
& our country is full of skeptics (which i’m sure you’ve realized).. so even if 100 people said “the eastern shore will not be affected.. a traveler from the future -said so-!!!”.. maybe 1 or 2 people would actually believe them. i think the affect you think you’d have..is not as large as it really would be.another: have you visited your -past- family? what city were you born in/grew up in? could you even say that so-and-so.. *an unknown person in today’s history*..”will be a big star”..etc..?-blonnie-just curious
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-12-2001 09:45 AM
I’ve read this entire forum through twice now.What I find fasinating more than John’s Time Traveling, are the people who seem to be attacking him. Now, I “believe” that Time Travel is possible – and I think there is plenty of physics evidence for this. So – perhaps the word “belief ” is really not the correct word.I have a couple of questions for John as well, so if you can answer these John, I would appreciate your answers.(1) Once a microsingularity is produced and placed in statis in a magnetic field, what is the approximate strength of that magnetic field.(2) How is the magnetic field produced (I mean – what power source holds the field in place)?(3) What would happen to the microsignularity if that source FAILED? For instance would the microsingularity begin to grow? Or would it cease to exist?In relation to my first comments about folks attacking John’s veracity – I have to say that John’s stories/statements DO hold water. The folks that chose not to believe him are welcome to do so, but, you do not have to “save anyone” from themselves or John. I believe most of us are intelligent enough to determine for ourselves if there is any kind of fraud. Even if there IS fraud, I personally am impressed with the background. It is well thought-out and consistent so far.John has stated several times that what he says will not affect us, or him, and what we say will not affect him whatsoever. I have to take that to mean that even if he DOES tell you something here, it will NOT affect HIS timeline, since there is some deviation from his actual timeline here. In other words, John is NOT the same John he is visiting now, as his 3 year old self. His mom and dad are NOT his REAL mom and dad in his time line. We are NOT the same PEOPLE IN HIS TIME LINE.Therefore, John (and none of you could do this either) can NOT tell us anything about our current timeline with any great accuracy that can be verified.Think about it.Rick DonaldsonColorado Springs
Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-12-2001 09:53 AM
another thing i do not understand.you said in a previous post:((“I am no more able to affect your world-line than you are. Yes, I could make the changes you suggested but you must remember that there are an infinite number of world-lines out there where I didn’t and I don’t. In fact, there’s even a world-line out there where you’re the time traveler and I’m the one writing the question.I think the war would be good for you and your society. I don’t want to stop it.Nothing I do here will affect any other world-line. “My” original world-line will always be the same and yes I can make changes here that would make this world-line different from mine but so can you.”))from this i suppose that you mean, that yes, you could & possibly have affected our ‘world-line’.. & our world-line is different from -your- world-line.. if this is true then why do you keep telling us about the ww3..etc.. how do you know that will even -happen- in our world-line? it may have already been nipped in the bud for all you know..because ours is a different -world-line- from yours!another thing i wanted to respond to:((“(2). To me it would seem obvious that we both have a very different perspective on what’s important right now in 2001. I would think that’s what makes our interaction interesting. Would I be anymore believable if I told you I had just stopped a horrible event and you won’t hear about it because it didn’t happen? Again, this is the second time it has come up and I am very curious. Why would you expect a time traveler to know or care about what happens in Hollywood or some individual companies profits? You seem to think I have tomorrow’s paper in front of me. Is that what time travel means to you? ”))i understand what you’re saying .. why would you care what happens in Hollywood..etc.. or individual companies profits.. what you’re basically saying is you just don’t remember (or maybe you do..but you won’t tell us?).. why would you care?
if you asked anyone today who, for instance: Marilyn Monroe is.. we would all know.. or who bill gates was & what he did for computers – we would all know.
you’re insinuating that you don’t know &/or don’t care about any of these things in the future. perhaps so..but how could you POSSIBLY not know who the next big inventor is.. or what the invention is.
you claim that if you told us.. we could alter it & keep it from happening. how many people do you think will be SO concerned that a -mega-super-razor- that keeps all facial hair gone for 20 days (for example).. that they want to go & stop the inventor from inventing it? & also you said, you’d be gone by the time the ‘good stuff’ happens..
OK.. isn’t that -further- better for your point..in that you say it’s better to have us be skeptics rather than sheep? well if you told us “in 2 years, there will be an earthquake in Israel”.. & you were gone by then..all we could do is say, “wow, that guy on the board in 2001 said this would happen! he was real!”.. we couldn’t -do- anything.. we couldn’t STOP the earthquake & i doubt anyone would go there & tell everyone to evacuate (and even if they did, no one would!).. it would just prove that you were -true- & existed.
i can’t fathom why you can not speak of something such as that..
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-12-2001 11:14 AM
John – Another question suddenly came to mind. I asked before about the microsingularities. Are they used to create the “rotating tipler cylinder” somehow through the axis of your time machine?
All matter within a certain distance is then pushed (somehow) along a time-dilation type trip in time, forward or backward.Is this about right?
I’m betting that (assuming this is real) the microsingularities are used to create the infinite length aspect of the tipler cylinder which appears to be required for this time function change to occur. The aspect of rotating microsingularities (MS from now on) means that some sort of gravitational field between the MS is also rotating, so as to create this illusion of a gravitational cylinder AROUND WHICH TIME IS DISTORTED GREATLY!!Hmmmm… I’m about to start believing this guy, John the Time Traveler is real.John, one last question, what sort of actual educational background (in your time) do you have? That is.. university, college, high school, etc? ThanksRick DonaldsonColorado Springs
Posted by Benedict Gumby on 02-12-2001 12:06 PM
QuestionI just have this to ask you.Do you recognize the name Benedict?I want to know because I fully intend to be a prominent figure within the next 20 years.
Posted by Kane Greene on 02-12-2001 12:14 PM
SmileI have read these threads and that web site you directed us all too on the first page. When first approaching this thread, I was expecting something to be comical, just some guy who would admit a page later that it was a joke. He would do that because he would not know how to answer questions or slip up, something in which you haven’t done! I am extremely surprised! With each reply you have, the more and more I think you could be possibly telling the truth.Some things in John’s defense to think of before being so harsh. Say you were back in 1900, and you mentioned something about us going to the moon. What do you think the response would have been? You probably would have been thought crazy, or a drunk! That is kinda in relation to what is going on now, we are not familiar or have no knowledge of Time Travel actually happening before this.Another thing about people saying how John doesn’t know any World Events that are about to happen in the next few months. But you have to remember, that the last time John was in our time, assuming he hasn’t traveled back was when he was 3 years old! How many of you can honestly say you remember at-the-time important issues that happened when you were 3! I know I can’t!John, now, I would like to ask you a few things I am curious about! This is something I have found to be very interesting and could possibly believe you!(1) Have you ever went on any other time traveling missions? If so, what were they?(2) I believe you said you had pictures of your time machine, could you post a link to uploaded images?(3) If you have any pictures of the IBM computer you were supposed to get, could you post a link to them also?(4) I looked up the name ‘Titor’ in the state of Florida on 555-1212.com and couldn’t find ANY Titors, is your family not listed in the phone book?(5) Can I contact you through any other means of online communications? Like AOL Instant Messagner? ICQ? MSN? Something so I can have a conversation with you! But if you don’t have those, could you possibly consider downloading one of them, http://www.AIM.com, http://www.ICQ.com. And then emailing me your user name abcs_123s@hotmail.com , thanks!(6) What is the specific Date that the Nuclear war starts? If you can’t remember the exact date, could you put the month at least? An estimate!(7)W hat is the speed of the average computer in the future? I am assuming it is in ghZ, if it is higher, could you post the name of that hZ measurement and its relation to the ghZ?(8) Can you do your own Time Traveling ventures whenever you want? If so, how much does it cost? Or can you make ‘pit stops’ along the way back to 2036?(9) Have you ever went past your future, like to 2050 or somewhere around there? If so, what is the world like then?Also, someone said why does he think that there will be a WW3 in our world since it isn’t the same as his. Well, John said that there is a 2.5% difference from our world and his, that isn’t that much of a difference, so a WW3 is very likely to happen if what he says is true and there is only that much of a difference!
Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-12-2001 12:31 PM
Kane Greene wrote:“Another thing about people saying how John doesn’t know any World Events that are about to happen in the next few months. But you have to remember, that the last time John was in our time, assuming he hasn’t traveled back was when he was 3 years old! How many of you can honestly say you remember at-the-time important issues that happened when you were 3! I know I can’t!”3 years old.. yes. i was 3 years old when Reagan was president & i probably had no idea he even existed at the time..yet, i know now that he existed. john is not a three year old now – he’s 38 he says & unless the schools of the future teach no history then why wouldn’t he know these things? & as they are big events in history i can understand (possibly) why he wouldn’t want to post them… but it has nothing to do with his age… tell me there weren’t things that happened or people that existed when you were three.. that you didn’t know of then but know of now? the Beatles for instance were alive & famous before i was ever born, yet i know they existed in the 60’s/70’s. i was born in 81 & challenger blew up soon thereafter (in 83 i think it was???) i never saw it on television happening.. but i know it happened.–what about Marilyn Monroe? i wasn’t even born yet when she was alive – but i know she existed? & telling us something such as her existence would not greatly affect the outcome of our entire world.. so why not tell us? i can possibly understand how telling us that there will be a horrible bombing in Canada..would affect the future .. someone on here may be from Canada & keep their family away from the site of the bombing .. thus, changing future.. but telling us something of little importance will NOT change the future! it will only prove he is who/what he says he is.-blonnie-
Posted by Kane Greene on 02-12-2001 12:45 PM
Red faceBy Blonnie:((“3 years old.. yes. i was 3 years old when Reagan was president & i probably had no idea he even existed at the time..yet, i know now that he existed. john is not a three year old now – he’s 38 he says & unless the schools of the future teach no history then why wouldn’t he know these things? & as they are big events in history i can understand (possibly) why he wouldn’t want to post them… but it has nothing to do with his age… tell me there weren’t things that happened or people that existed when you were three.. that you didn’t know of then but know of now? the Beatles for instance were alive & famous before i was ever born, yet i know they existed in the 60’s/70’s. i was born in 81 & challenger blew up soon thereafter (in 83 i think it was???) i never saw it on television happening.. but i know it happened.–what about marilyn monroe? i wasn’t even born yet when she was alive – but i know she existed? & telling us something such as her existance would not greatly affect the outcome of our entire world.. so why not tell us? i can possibly understand how telling us that there will be a horrible bombing in canada..would affect the future .. someone on here may be from canada & keep their family away from the site of the bombing .. thus, changing future.. but telling us something of little importance will NOT change the future! it will only prove he is who/what he says he is. ”))I was alive when Desert Storm took place, do I know the month it happened? No.. I wouldn’t expect John to either. Plus, History books from that time would probably contain things about the war from 2005, possibly things leading up to the war. Not inventions like ‘Ginger’ and pop artists!History books might mention some things, but they just give a year most of the time if it is not of grave importance, they more than less are going to just give the year and say what it did.Blah! Why can’t vBulletin have the quote feature like the better, UBB? Blah!
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-12-2001 01:15 PM
I was born in 1957. I DO remember the 1962 crisis, at least in terms of the adults being scared. I would have been 5 years old. I distinctly remember John Glenn going up and splashing down, and I remember hearing about Alan Sheppard (first man in space for you younguns hehe).I indeed remember watching John Glenn though. I remember Walter Cronkites voice on television. I can tell you what my house looked like back then, the size of the TV and that it was black and white. I remember playing with magnets back then, and being absolutely fascinated with the magic of magnetic fields even then (which eventually drove me into the sciences, chemistry, physics and finally electronics engineering).I remember a TV show called “Time Tunnel” in the late 60’s. Anyone else?Anyway, the basic point is, I do have very vivid memories of things from when I was a child, of no more than 3-4. I have very, very clear memories of things when I was 3 and even my mom when she was alive was amazed at the things I could recall from such a young age. Well… I don’t remember much about politics though. I know that Eisenhower was the Prez when I was born, but… I don’t remember ANYTHING about him, but I DO remember all KINDS of things about Kennedy.So… what I am getting at, John would not necessarily (nor would anyone else) remember things of politics in their baby years. Some of us do, many of us do not.I can tell you something very important to me though… if *I* stepped into a time machine to go back to… say 1961 or 1962 I ABSOULTELY would have a complete knowledge of the era that I was returning to, in my mind. I’d have studied it very carefully, and I would ensure I had clothing of that era (up to and including the geeky classes I used to wear as a kid) to “fit in”. 1962 was a year of the almost end of the human race as we know it now, and I CERTAINLY would not want to step into a time where I could have been noticed as being out of place and out of time. Curiousity about me might cause my arrest or anything else in those days.As a 43 year old grandpa, I know a LOT more now, than I did then. I KNOW that if I had the chance to go see it with what I know now, I would take that chance. I also know that I probably would NOT pass on intelligence from the future as a matter of course. I would not communicate with anyone who might be able to discern my intent, or even anything about the future from me.Even if I were 2.6% off track from my time line. Even if I were 45% off track, I would not give anyone the chance to gloam on to anything I said about the future.Rick DonaldsonColorado Springs
Posted by Nikki Colwill on 02-12-2001 01:31 PM
Please tell us about the environment, the animal kingdom, are there any left…what kind? If there were nukes, how do any survive? What are the physical concequences on us?Have you heard of ascension or “The Rapture”? If so please tell what you know.Do you trust anyone in this time frame? If so, do you share more info with them?Have you heard of the Mayan Calendar? Do you believe it to be a true or factual event timeline?I am told that fear keeps us further from the truth and God, that being said, you had stated earlier that fear is what would keep us alive, at least I think you said something like that, anyway I find that a contradiction.I would like to speak/e-mail with you. Is that possible or something you would be willing to do? Would you consider that?Thanks, NikkiPS–Is Art Bell remembered? Who are the most remembered people from this time?[Edited by Nikki Colwill on 02-12-2001 at 01:37 PM]
Posted by Kane Greene on 02-12-2001 03:49 PM
LightbulbJohn, I have a few more questions. These ones are more about the ‘War’, and the state of your world.(1) Who is the Major Super Power?(2) Are the two political parties still Republicans and Democrats?(3) How many States are there?(4) Which states get the worst?(5) Were only cities along the Eastern Sea port hit in the Nuclear War, or all over the country?(6) Do company's like Microsoft, Yahoo!, and other internet software company's still exist?(7) Does money look a lot different than it does now? If you have a picture, could you please upload it and post the link!(8) So then when you time travel you can never actually go back to the EXACT same place you left from?(9) Was a lot of the United States’ 18-24 age group slaughtered in the war because of Draft?(10)Do you ever get visitors from later time periods to 2036?(11) Are there any other company's, besides the one you work for that have TTs and send them out regularly?(12) Does the government know there is TT going on?(13) Why were YOU selected to be a TT? What gave you special qualifications?(14) How many TTs are there on the team that you are on? How do new recruits get selected?(15) What all countries are on our side in the war? What all countries are on the opposite side?(16) Which country gets the worst in the war?Those are just a few more I came up with , I will let you know if I think of more!
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-12-2001 07:28 PM
John Titor is a fraud. Check out this forum he’s been posting on for months. And see how he suddenly goes quiet because he is exposed.http://www.xone.net/tti/board/ubbhtml/Forum1/HTML/000433.htmlAnd also see the discrepancy’s in his story. And how he attempts to lure people into believing in him.
http://www.xone.net/tti/board/ubbhtml/Forum1/HTML/000367.htmlWe found you TT_0, and now the calvary will soon arrive to expose you here too.-Javier C.A.K.A. TimeTravelActivist
Posted by Kennith Viccars on 02-12-2001 07:50 PM
You people are seriously starting to scare me.Some shmuck claims to be from the year 2036, posts a few intelligent posts on a online forum, and has a herd of sheep hanging off his every word.Get some direction in you lives.
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-12-2001 08:07 PM
Well it was fun while it lasted. Still haven’t read the archive of posts of the mentioned board, though, sheep that I am, I’ll have to take your word for it. (until I get time to read up). What were the points that stuck out, Javier?(I do believe in ghosts, I do believe in ghosts, I do, I do …. and on)
Posted by Sally Stanton on 02-12-2001 08:16 PM
TalkingWatch me pull a rabbit out of Ong’s Hat!!Anway, ‘scuze me. Gotta run. My kitty’s looking for that Door into Sumer (sic).
Posted by John Titor on 02-12-2001 08:54 PM
Thank you Vega for the information. I will visit the site and I expect I will have some questions.
Yes, there are a great many people who think that Revelations has come to pass. However, the new fear is that Christ has returned, he’s not telling us and he’s very angry.
I am not familiar with the Fatima Prophesies but I am aware of the term. I was not sent here to change anything. Since it would not affect my home anyway, it would be rather pointless.
I am here because of my family and the interaction I had with them in 1975.
I understand the question about the Antichrist but I must admit I hadn’t given it much thought. My initial reaction is to consider how the Antichrist would affect my life if I could identify him/her. If your life became a sort of “Hell” anyway, would it matter if the Antichrist was real?
I became aware of this bulletin board through my various archiving work through the web. We do enjoy “talk programs” but they are distributed over the web.
I don’t have additional information about UFOs and I find the subject quite interesting myself. I have often wondered if they aren’t time travelers with very sophisticated machines. Based on what I know about the nature of time I find this difficult to believe but nothing is impossible.
Yes, handmade items and the skills to make them are quite prevalent and people take a great deal of pride in their work. People with the skills to make clothing, work with leather and wood or cultivate a garden have become quite valuable. Please do not think your questions are unimportant. I enjoy the conversation.
Fiji?
I’ve noticed that when most Americans think about Canada in this time, they think about pine trees, chooks and back-bacon. It may interest you to know that most Canadians in 2036 are some of the most efficient, ruthless and dangerous people I know. God help Quebec.
Within limits, I’m confident my anonymity is secure. The various email and web accounts I have do not have a big sign that says “Time Machine This Way –>”. In order to be at risk I would have to be believed. In my experience, evil may be powerful, but they aren’t very bright.
((you couldn’t even answer the simple question of what will be the next ‘movement’ in music? just something so simple as that))
Unfortunately, your question is rather difficult for me.
Any personal experience I might have with your world-line at a specific moment is limited to my viewpoint and age. I can’t tell you what music is popular in the next few years because the “me” here is only three years old. In addition, how does someone decide what the most popular music trend is? It would seem rather subjective to me. Thinking about it now I sort of wonder what it would be like to be a teenager now and know the answer to that question. When I was thirteen I used to worry about which shotgun slug would take a door handle off and whether or not I had any dry socks. Current fallout estimates are accurate but a bit exaggerated.
Your example of what people would do based on something I might say is accurate. However, my concern would be the potential actions of a single person, not the masses. In 1963, if I suggested that someone should watch the book depository windows as the President went by, the actions of a single person might have a huge impact on history. You also asked if I’ve visited my “past” family. That’s where I am now.
((1) Once a micro-singularity is produced and placed in statis in a magnetic field, what is the approximate strength of that magnetic field.
2) How is the magnetic field produced (I mean – what power source holds the field in place)?
3) What would happen to the microsignularity if that source FAILED? For instance would the microsingularity begin to grow? Or would it cease to exist?))
These are excellent questions that I probably won’t answer to your satisfaction but let me make a couple of points first. Although I am familiar with the general manufacture of the unit, I am not a physicist or a scientist.
My background is in history and I had the correct profile to accomplish my given task in 1975. I doubt that most jet fighter pilots are aeronautical engineers[Curious he should make this point. - Metallicman.] and I’ll bet most of you couldn’t give me the formula for horsepower, yet you drive a car every day.
The second point I can illustrate with an interesting story.
In the opening phases of WWI, one of the largest problems early fighter pilots had was how to shoot a machine gun through the propeller blades without chopping it to bits. The problem was very straightforward. When the engine was off, the blades took up only a small percentage of the total arch but with the engine on, there was seemingly no way to know when it was safe to shoot through them.
This problem lasted for quite a while until a very smart person came up with a very simple solution. By using a small lobed cam on the propeller shaft that controlled a switch on the machine gun, it was possible to stop the gun from firing only when the cam turned off the switch at the point a bullet might hit the blade. It was so simple in fact, the other side only caught on to the idea after one of the planes crashed and they were able to take it apart.
My point is; seemingly very complicated problems often have very simple and ingenious solutions using technology that is already available.
The distortion unit is not magic and no alien technology was required to make it work. If you could see it, the “smarts” that went into designing it will amaze you more than the technology. Heck, the really interesting technology is in the computer.
The magnetic field does not require the fantastic energies you might imagine. The field is “created” and captures the singularity inside a very large and powerful specially designed particle accelerator. If the magnetic system failed (which has numerous backups including a system that would remove it from this world-line), the singularity would evaporate. Although it is smaller than an electron, it would still be quite undesirable.
((why do you keep telling us about the ww3..etc.. how do you know that will even -happen- in our world-line? it may have already been nipped in the bud for all you know..because ours is a different -worldline- from yours!))
Yes, you are correct!
However, I am not confident things are different enough for you to avoid the conflict. You may also consider the possibility that a world with no war is far less desirable in the long run. In response to your other point, your assumptions about causality are correct but my personal morality still comes into play. I won’t deviate from my three rules because of the way I would feel about myself.
The singularities do not create Tipler cylinders they create the same physical environment without all the mass. The same math works for both. There are two singularities.
Their mass and spin is altered in order to adjust the size of the ergosphere and cause the event horizons to interact and create the gravity sinusoid.
I have a basic home schooling education (k-12) and a bachelor’s degree in history.
I will get to the remaining questions soon.
John
Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-12-2001 09:35 PM
i am simply going to answer many questions at once.. read above for sources.. i do not site the source of the question. i also want to note that i’m a very -unskeptical- person..i kinda have the philosophy that anything is possible .. i infact, believe that time travel does most likely exist.. but mr titor you have skirted around too many questions to be believable. someone asked why they could not find a ‘titor ‘listed in florida.. & you failed to answer that question.. here are my responses.(a summary of a question) “he was only 3 years old now..how would -he- know what the next big movement in music was?”..i know that Madonna was a HUGE THING in the 80’s.. yet i was only born in 81!! i know that ‘Dallas’ & ‘dynasty’ & ‘falcon crest’ were big time t.v. shows then..but i was very young. why wouldn’t he know of such simple things as that? & even if he was just 3..he was 5 & 6 & up to 38 before he ‘came here’..!!another response:“I was alive when Desert Storm took place, do I know the month it happened? No.. I wouldn’t expect John to either. Plus, History books from that time would probably contain things about the war from 2005, possibly things leading up to the war. Not inventions like ‘Ginger’ and pop artists!History books might mention some things, but they just give a year most of the time if it is not of grave importance, they more than less are going to just give the year and say what it did. ”i never asked for an exact month – i asked for a rough time period. you do not need a history book to know the things that i ask – because i’m asking things that are common knowledge among -society-. in our ‘dumbed down’ society.. even the people w/the largest lack of knowledge about current events know popular things that are occuring. & if they happen to be three years old right now – don’t you think they’d say ‘well, when i was 13, -guzzenberry- was a big t.v. show’. i need no history book to know that by the time i was 5-9 she-ra dolls were a big time thing.. & they were the next rave of toys. or that ‘we didn’t start the fire’ or whatever it’s title.. was a big hit song.. if you were a person at that time..you’d remember those sorts of silly little things.mr titors response to my question (mine in parenthesis):“((you couldn’t even answer the simple question of what will be the next ‘movement’ in music? just something so simple as that))“”Unfortunately, your question is rather difficult for me. Any personal experience I might have with your world-line at a specific moment is limited to my viewpoint and age. I can’t tell you what music is popular in the next few years because the “me” here is only three years old. In addition, how does someone decide what the most popular music trend is? It would seem rather subjective to me. Thinking about it now I sort of wonder what it would be like to be a teenager now and know the answer to that question. When I was thirteen I used to worry about which shotgun slug would take a door handle off and whether or not I had any dry socks. Current fallout estimates are accurate but a bit exaggerated.”you say popular music would be subjective..but i say: even though i am not a fan of rap music..i know it came to the forfront in the 80’s.. run dmc.. the fresh prince.. ton loc. (ok, i kinda like those bands..but the more modern day ones i care little for..).. i know that madonna for instance was on countless billboards in the 80’s & was known for her ‘sex’ driven image..michael jackson was the ‘king of pop’.. – milli vanilli -sucked- & that ‘the new kids on the block’ were a rave w/my generation.you also say this:
“Your example of what people would do based on something I might say is accurate. However, my concern would be the potential actions of a single person, not the masses. In 1963, if I suggested that someone should watch the book depository windows as the President went by, the actions of a single person might have a huge impact on history. You also asked if I’ve visited my “past” family. That’s where I am now.”when i ask you a question of why you can’t tell us ‘there will be an earthquake in isreal in 2010..’ or something of the such..this is not a question that someone could CHANGE. it is a natural disaster & i purposely chose that sort of a disaster so the question could not be passed by as you did in your response. however, you choose to use a different type of example rather than answer my question -directly-..i am a basic naive -schmuck-..in that i am gullible & like to believe everything. i’ve heard of the planet ‘nibiru’ & find the theories extremely interesting & i even think it could be/might be true.. i do believe in time travel & i even think that we are perhaps being visited -now- by time travelers.. however, i don’t know if this is -true-..just a possibility.i just think you skirt around too many issues .. & by refusing to even mention something from the ‘future’ that could not be -changed- by people -today-..it just gives me further evidence that you are not who you say you are.i apologize to be so blunt.. but you skirt around so many questions that i just find you hard to believe.
Posted by Mike Kolesnik on 02-12-2001 11:00 PM
Red faceThis could be a good exercise in Logic and Critical Thinking. I will try to approach this from a math set theory point of view.John says he is a TT. ( Ok, here we have a basic statement)John says he came here (1975 actually) for an IBM 5100 computer. ( Ok, he has a purpose)John wants to remain anon but posts numerous posts to this board and at least 2 others where he expounds on, among other things, the functioning and design of the TT machine.
(OK, here is the BIG problem. Why would a TT’er reveal himself & the TT machine? In John’s stated mission, these actions have no purpose.)John alludes to a civil war being started between the Democrats and Republicans. Later, this escalates into WW3 and he mentions that it is a “good” thing for our soceity. ( 3 billion people dead a “good” thing?)John tells us to: buy a gun, find 5 friends, get a bicycle, yada, yada, yada. ( this conflicts with his above comments: here he seems to want to save some people, while above he wants to kill us all off)In previous posts John mentions that he has no idea what GINGER is but in a later post he mentions media hype and alludes to IT not amounting to much.John mentions the Big War(2015) was between the Cities of America (the enemy of John) and Russia, China, etc.(so not only do we have a civil war but now we have a war between the city folk and rural folk in the US, AND a world war)John says the civil war which starts in 2004 or 2005 (depending on the post) leads to the world war which starts in 2015. ( So we have a TEN YEAR civil war???)John mentions that the mechanical typewriter is a major machine again in the future, but in another post says the Internet still exists and is widely used.
( Who builds typewriters anymore and who last used the typewriter in a most infamous way? Hint: he lived in a one room cabin in Montana and hated technology and soceity)Responses???
Posted by John Titor on 02-12-2001 11:51 PM
I almost made it to bed…
I’m flattered you went back and double checked.
((3. John wants to remain anon but posts numerous posts to this board and at least 2 others where he expounds on, among other things, the functioning and design of the TT machine. OK, here is the BIG problem. Why would a TT’er reveal himself & the TT machine? In John’s stated mission, these actions have no purpose.))
I still fail to see why this is a problem. If you can think of another way where I can interact with people I would very much like to hear your suggestions. Why isn’t the mere act of speaking with other people an end in itself? Personally, I find the unit interesting and I like talking about it. There must be something in your life like that.
((4. John alludes to a civil war being started between the Democrats and Republicans. Later, this escalates into WW3 and he mentions that it is a “good” thing for our soceity. ( 3 billion people dead a “good” thing?))
I don’t believe I ever said the war was between Democrats and Republicans. If I am incorrect, please point that out. It doesn’t exactly escalate as much as it opens the door for other aggression. Yes, I think the war would be good for society and I would be happy to debate that with you.
((5. John tells us to: buy a gun, find 5 friends, get a bicycle, yada, yada, yada. ( this conflicts with his above comments: here he seems to want to save some people, while above he wants to kill us all off))
If you could point out how this violates the three guidelines I stated earlier I will give it considerable thought. Perhaps you are correct and that was a mistake. Again, I don’t believe I said I want to kill you. Personally, I think murder is wrong. You seem to be pretty good at that yourself.
((6. In previous posts John mentions that he has no idea what GINGER is but in a later post he mentions media hype and alludes to IT not amounting to much.))
Again, I don’t believe I said that either. My point in that conversation was about feeling manipulated by hype. Since they ARE asking you to buy something, I would be very interested in your lengthy and critical postings about ITS credibility. If you could post that link I would very much like to see it.
((7. John mentions the Big War(2015) was between the Cities of America (the enemy of John) and Russia, China, etc.(so not only do we have a civil war but now we have a war between the city folk and rural folk in the US, AND a world war))
Hmmm…are you familiar with the Russian partisan movement in WWII?
((8. John says the civil war which starts in 2004 or 2005 (depending on the post) leads to the world war which starts in 2015. ( So we have a TEN YEAR civil war???))
It’s 2004. I apologize for a missed key (very observant – we all need good critics). Perhaps our definition of war is different. I would define it as a conflict where organized groups engage in maneuver and armed conflict. The first U.S. civil war lasted 4 years and the English civil war lasted 6. How long is too long?
((9. John mentions that the mechanical typewriter is a major machine again in the future, but in another post says the Internet still exists and is widely used. ( Who builds typewriters anymore and who last used the typewriter in a most infamous way? Hint: he lived in a one room cabin in Montana and hated technology and soceity))
Actually, what I said was, “…you may be surprised at how many people use typewriters.” I don’t understand the conflict. What’s wrong with typewriters? At least you don’t have to plug them in.
Thanks for the patience…getting to the other questions.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-13-2001 07:54 AM
First off, the clown who called everyone “sheep” here is out of line. Go BACK and read my posts, CAREFULLY. No one here is a sheep. We are interested in what the guy had to say, because he made several points, some of them very sound, scientifically.I really detest people like you who go around and make rash assumptions about “everyone on this list” or another list. You’re the same kind of jerk that goes around and tells the media that “all militia members are a bad”, or “guns are a bad thing”. The same kind of person that wants people like “Social Services” to pidgeonhole everyone. Instead of insulting the intelligence of the people who are here trying to use deductive reasoning to ascertain the truth about someone’s means, motive and methods, why don’t you go back to your little world and leave the rest of us alone who are trying to find out the truth about someone!? Absolute, denial of any possibilities is your bag. Go deny Big Foot exists, or go deny that the military has an Area 51.Mr. Titor, no, you didn’t answer my questions at all regarding singularities (except that they would ‘evaporate’, or the device would ‘remove itself from the time line’).In fact, regardless of your background you should have a basic understanding of physics. I’m absolutely CERTAIN that if you’re a pilot of an aircraft you ARE an engineer to an extent in that you understand BASIC PHYSICS of how your aircraft flies.If you’re a race car driver, evidence points to the fact that even THEY have a very good understanding of their cars, engines and the physics thereof.I know for instance that my Jeep is capable of about 198 horsepower. I know that it uses fuel injection. I’m not a mechanic, but I can certainly tell you a great deal about how an internal combustion engine works. I can tell you how a bicycle functions (because I used to ride them). I can tell you a good deal about physiology as well – the human body, BECAUSE I HAVE TO KNOW!By the way, I don’t remember the “horsepower formula” off HAND, but I can tell you 1 hp = 746 watts. I am an engineer – and I can tell you this much more, if you’re a real time traveler from 2036 and time travel is as easy (and as often) as you say it is, and you’re in the military or some government service, then by 1) exposing yourself, you’ve very likely broken several regulations, 2) Put yourself at risk by doing so, 3) should know a hell of a lot more about the machines you’re operating, 4) are inconsistent in several aspects of your posts.In other words John – you’re an apparent fraud. That’s too bad, too. These people here want to know the truth, they want to believe that there are time travelers, and that perhaps TT would even explain the UFO pheonomenon or other things that are unexplained in the world today. If you were a real person and you have gone so far as to tell us “I’m real, but I don’t care if you believe me, in fact I don’t want you to believe me”… then you’ve got a serious problem with reality – not relativity.By the way, I have some very extreme reasons to doubt that a microsignularity exists in the first place, and in the second place, if it DID exist, I doubt it would be the “size of an electron”. In any case, a signularity (a black hole for those of you who haven’t figured that out yet) is an extreme mass, and holding it in a magnetic field in a gravitational field as strong as Earth’s would simply rip the singularity from the magnetic field causing the black hold to crash to the center of the mass of Earth. The Earth would then become part of the black hole as it grew in size, pulling in the matter of the Earth.At least that’s what physics says. If there are “fail safes” on such a device, the device’s power would have to be backed up multiple times, and then STILL FUNCTION (to ‘rotate the craft out of this time line’) to save the existing time line from major problems.Sorry folks, too many holes (not black holes) in this theory.[Edited by Rick Donaldson on 02-13-2001 at 08:01 AM]
Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-13-2001 08:57 AM
Thumbs upRick (& John)Rick, you’ve made some very good points and criticisms regarding John and his claims.That’s right, even a race-car driver has a basic understanding as to the physics involved in his car, so John, why can’t you explain your “time machine” in greater detail?And just for the record the formula for horsepower is something along the lines of reldline rpm X 35 / 6500…
I know that’s not the right formula, but it’s something like that, I can check it in my “Top 10 Torque Monsters” of Motor Trend magazine.
Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-13-2001 09:14 AM
John,A couple of questions
(1) Is the Chevy truck better than the Ford truck for time travel. I always thought the TT package meant trailer towing. Geez was I wrong! Is Chevy still making time travel machines in 2036?(2) How did you buy your truck? How could you title it if you are only 3 years old to the title bureau at this point? You won’t be able to sell it in Minnesota unless it’s in your name and clear. Is the Chevy newer and how did you pay for it? Did you scrounge around to find 40 year old currency in 2036? I know I wouldn’t take any money from someone that had mint marks from 2036.(3) Does the truck have to be running when you are travelingthrough time. Did you come here in a Chevy? What if you run out of gas? Are there any factory options that make it easier, like cruise control?That’s all I can think of for now.
Posted by John Titor on 02-13-2001 10:51 AM
((1) Have you ever went on any other time traveling missions? If so, what were they?))
Yes, but they were all training missions.
There is a great deal of psychological profiling and testing and one of the training missions involved choosing a time in your life (within two years) where you wish you would have done something different and then going back to convince yourself to do it.
The idea is to become familiar with the possibility of meeting yourself which can be rather difficult.
It is quite odd to look at “yourself” and have a conversation. Since any “you” on another world-line would not be a mirror image, you get a slightly distorted feeling while seeing yourself, let alone the concept of speaking to yourself.
[This type of dialog is not commonly found on forums. It is suggestive of real experiences. - Metallicaman.]
(2) I believe you said you had pictures of your time machine, could you post a link to uploaded images?
I would be happy to do that and I tried a link earlier. I suspect that attaching links to other boards without the Sysop’s permission is in bad taste.
(3) If you have any pictures of the IBM computer you were supposed to get, could you post a link to them also?
I’m pretty sure there must be something on the web now about the IBM 5100.
(4) I looked up the name ‘Titor’ in the state of Flordia on 555-1212.com and couldn’t find ANY Titors, is your family not listed in the phone book?
I guess it depends when you look.
(5) Can I contact you through any other means of online communications? Like AOL Instant Messagner? ICQ? MSN? Something so I can have a conversation with you! But if you don’t have those, could you possibly consider downloading one of them, then emailing me your user name abcs_123s@hotmail.com,nks!
I’ve tried talking online before and found it quite enjoyable but I find the questions and comments come so rapidly its hard to keep up.
(6) What is the specific Date that the Nuclear war starts? If you can’t remember the exact date, could you put the month at least? An estimate!
I remember the exact date. When it comes, it will not be a surprise.
(7) What is the speed of the average computer in the future? I am assuming it is in ghZ, if it is higher, could you post the name of that hZ measurement and its relation to the ghZ?
Ghz is not a useful measurement. Computers are no longer measured by their speed as much as the number of variables (not calculations) they can handle per second.
(8 )Can you do your own Time Traveling ventures whenever you want? If so, how much does it cost? Or can you make ‘pit stops’ along the way back to 2036?
No, the unit doesn’t belong to me. I can’t make stops on the way home as it will throw the gravity measurements off and It would force me to backtrack along the backtrack. Also, I can’t just leave and arrive at any place and time I want to. There are physical and technical limits to when and where I can go.
(9) Have you ever went past your future, like to 2050 or somewhere around there? If so, what is the world like then?
No, I haven’t been to the future of my 2036. My profile qualified me for a trip to the past.
((what about Marilyn Monroe? i wasn’t even born yet when she was alive – but i know she existed? & telling us something such as her existance would not greatly affect the outcome of our entire world.. so why not tell us?))
I understand your position and appreciate your supportive outlook. However, I have given some very detailed information that could be checked out. Please consider that our frame of reference is quite different and finding subjects to discuss and exchange information about could be a challenge. I’m just not up on music, Hollywood and sports in the year 2001. You could ask me all you want about 1975 but I suspect that’s not very impressive.
((…but it has nothing to do with his age..))
Actually it does, I have never personally experienced this time as an adult and “Brittany Spears” was not a big topic of conversation when your hiking through the swamp. Everything I know about your time is from books, magazines and old videotapes that weren’t destroyed in the war. If it makes you feel any better, I do struggle with not talking about football.
The animal Kingdom is alive and well. I’m sure it suffered but there fewer people infringing on animal’s habitats now. Nuclear war is a very undesirable thing but it is not the end of the world. There are areas and cities we can’t enter and the environment did suffer a great deal of damage but we are recovering. Isn’t Hirroshima a thriving city today? The major physical affects include skin cancer, infertility, infection, etc. Almost everyone has some sort of physical remnant from the war.
I am aware the concept of the Rapture is related to Christian Prophecy but I am not familiar with the details. Yes, there are people I trust here and I would hate for any harassment or harm to come to them. I am aware of the Mayan Calander but in 2012, it was not something I was able to think about. When the time comes, I’m sure people will find the signs they are looking for that leads them to the end of time.
When I say fear will keep you alive I am talking about the natural instincts and premonitions that we all trun off when its convienent. The same person who has five dead bolt locks on their door will think nothing about getting into a parking garage elevator with a total stranger. I think the fear of God is the fear of separation from God.
Some of you may wonder what a time traveler does with his day while he’s posting on the web. I spend a great deal of time downloading information and storing it for my return. “Art’s” site is definitely on that list. I’ll have to think about who the most remembered people are. Again, my viewpoint is quite squewed.
((1) Who is the Major Super Power? ))
It depends on how you define power. If you mean military, the world has developed into an odd balance. There are plenty of nuclear weapons left but if anyone uses them they will be instantly erased from the planet by everyone else regardless of the politics. We are very tired of war.
(2) Are the two political parties still Republicans and Democrats?
There are no Republicans or Democrats to speak of. There are now over 10 major political parties.
(3) How many States are there?
The states as you know them still exist but their political power has been combined with other states around them. There are now 5 major geopolitical areas in the united states.
(4) Which states get the worst?
When you can’t drink the water its bad everywhere.
(5) Were only cities along the Eastern Sea port hit in the Nuclear War, or all over the country?
Mostly cities and large military areas in the entire country.
(6) Do companies like Microsoft, Yahoo!, and other internet software companys still exist?
No.
(7) Does money look a lot different than it does now? If you have a picture, could you please upload it and post the link!
No, money is pretty much the same. Unfortunately, I do not have any money with me because I wouldn’t be able to use it here.
(8) So then when you time travel you can never actually go back to the EXACT same place you left from?
That is correct, in physical terms, I can never get back to the exact world-line I left from.
(9) Was a lot of the United States’ 18-24 age group slaughtered in the war because of Draft?
Yes.
(10) Do you ever get visitors from later time periods to 2036?
Not that I’m aware of but I can’t say it isn’t happening.
(11) Are there any other companies, besides the one you work for that have TTs and send them out regularly?
I work for the military. GE just makes the unit.
(12) Does the government know there is TT going on?
In 2036, yes.
(13) Why were YOU selected to be a TT? What gave you special qualifications?
I am related to a key figure in the development of the IBM 5100.
(14) How many TTs are there on the team that you are on? How do new recruits get selected?
My unit has between 6 and 10. When I left, there were 7 others. Military service, physical fitness, history or technical background and special relationship to target contacts get you in the door.
(15) What all countries are on our side in the war? What all countries are on the oposite side?
Don’t have much to add there.
(16) Which country gets the worst in the war?
Again, the entire world is affected. Even if you don’t take a direct hit, dying crops and no water can ruin your day.
My time traveling nemesis Javier (a.k.a. TTA) has found me yet again! As long as the links last, I do urge people to go back and take a look at some of the more insightful things you have to share.
((when i ask you a question of why you can’t tell us ‘there will be an earthquake in Israel in 2010..’ or something of the such..this is not a question that someone could CHANGE. it is a natural disaster & i purposely chose that sort of a disaster so the question could not be passed by as you did in your response. however, you choose to use a different type of example rather than answer my question -directly-.))
I will not share information that would allow someone to avoid death by probability.
((i just think you skirt around too many issues .. & by refusing to even mention something from the ‘future’ that could not be -changed- by people -today-..it just gives me further evidence that you are not who you say you are.))
Again, what I think is important doesn’t impress anyone and although I could point to various things I’ve said about other subjects the response is usually ho-hum tell us about music and sports. I suppose I could lie and make something up but what’s the point?
((In fact, regardless of your background you should have a basic understanding of physics.))
I do but your questions were rather specific. I would love to talk physics and I’ll be happy to walk through the operation of the unit.
((1) exposing yourself, you’ve very likely broken several regulations,
No, I haven’t.
((2) Put yourself at risk by doing so,))
Yes, that’s potential true but what I gain offsets that. Does that statement answer the question why time traveler’s do not revel themselves?
((3) should know a hell of a lot more about the machines you’re operating,))
I do know very much about it. I’m just not willing to share it with everyone.
((4) are inconsistent in several aspects of your posts.))
If you could point out the specific questions I will be happy to address them.
((By the way, I have some very extreme reasons to doubt that a microsignularity exists in the first place, and in the second place, if it DID exist, I doubt it would be the “size of an electron”. In any case, a signularity (a black hole for those of you who haven’t figured that out yet) is an extreme mass, and holding it in a magnetic field in a gravitational field as strong as Earth’s would simply rip the singularity from the magnetic field causing the black hold to crash to the center of the mass of Earth. The Earth would then become part of the black hole as it grew in size, pulling in the matter of the Earth.))
I’m not sure if you want me to go over these issues one at a time or if you’re just making a point.
The formula for horsepower is HP = torque X RPM / 5252.
((1. Is the Chevy truck better than the Ford truck for time travel. I always thought the TT package meant trailer towing. Geez was I wrong! Is Chevy still making time travel machines in 2036?))
The vehicle must have a strong suspension.
((2. How did you buy your truck? How could you title it if you are only 3 years old to the title bureau at this point? You won’t be able to sell it in Minnesota unless it’s in your name and clear. Is the Chevy newer and how did you pay for it? Did you scrounge around to find 40 year old currency in 2036? I know I wouldn’t take any money from someone that had mint marks from 2036.))
Don’t worry. Fortunately, these are things we’re taught at time travel school in “how to get around in the sarcastic 20th century. I said I didn’t have any money from 2036. I have plenty from here.
((3. Does the truck have to be running when you are traveling through time. Did you come here in a Chevy? What if you run out of gas? Are there any factory options that make it easier, like cruise control?))
The vehicle must be standing still.
Posted by Benedict Gumby on 02-13-2001 11:07 AM
You still haven’t answered my question from page 8}:P
Posted by John Titor on 02-13-2001 11:23 AM
((I just have this to ask you. Do you recognize the name Benedict? I want to know because I fully intend to be a prominent figure within the next 20 years))
No, I can’t say that I do. However, since I’m archiving all of this and will submit it with my report, it will eventually end up on our internet.
If you want to leave a message to yourself in the future, please feel free to do so. I would make it broad enough so your name or some other important word will pop up in routine search engine that “you” might be using in 2036.
Also, be aware that the “you” in my 2036 will be unaware that the you left a message at all.
Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-13-2001 01:14 PM
my question ((i just think you skirt around too many issues .. & by refusing to even mention something from the ‘future’ that could not be -changed- by people -today-..it just gives me further evidence that you are not who you say you are.))your response: Again, what I think is important doesn’t impress anyone and although I could point to various things I’ve said about other subjects the response is usually ho-hum tell us about music and sports. I suppose I could lie and make something up but what’s the point?you fail to understand why i ask the silly hum-drum questions. i do not truly care what the music/hollywood will be like in 5-10 years..my whole reason for asking the unimportant questions is because they are -unimportant-.
you say that you can’t answer questions about when a natural disastor occurs..or things that can be -changed- by people to alter the way they -should- happen. so i am asking questions that can NOT be changed. someone can not change the fact that “Girly G. Hottie” is the next big name in showbusiness’.. my whole reason for asking these things is so that in 5-10 years when you’re “gone” i can say “holy bejezuz.., maybe that guy was for real!”.
that would be the extent of it..it’s not like i could -do-change- anything.. i just want to know if you’re real & you give no proof whatsoever that you’re real.
even if it’s not an instantaneous realization..i would realize this when whatever you said would happen came true. i am -not- trying to be shallow w/my questions..these are no things that i -care- whether or not it’s this or that.. it’s just proof for me.i’m beginning to think, as someone suggested – that you’re writing a book & this is all material for it. you said you didnt want us to be sheep & just believe..you -wanted- us to ask questions. so if we ask questions then you can sew up any holes you have in your story.. so it will be the tightest & most realisticly possibly sci-fi time travel story ever. i don’t like the idea that you could possibly be using all of these people & if you are *grr* shame on you.
Posted by John Titor on 02-13-2001 01:51 PM
((my whole reason for asking the unimportant questions is because they are -unimportant-))
If it’s unimportant to you why would it be important to me?
Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-13-2001 02:00 PM
you are the most frustrating time traveler i’ve ever met!!!!!!!!!!!!!(ok you’re the only one i’ve ever met)–geez..why do you isolate that one question? the whole thing was used to mean that it was -unimportant- in the fact that just because you tell us those things ..we can not change or alter them.. they are just -proof-.. unimportant meaning why would it alter time by you telling us.. “keep an eye out for so-and-so..they will rise to fame.” or something like that. we couldn’t -change- that.. & if we could..why would we want to because it’s “unimportant” in comparison to a bombing or drought or war..etc..it is just PROOF THAT YOU’RE TRUE which you fail to provide.you are aggravating.-blonie-
Posted by James Boley on 02-13-2001 02:05 PM
There is a guy claiming your a fraud in another string entitled “I am from 2040…”It would be interesting to see you go head to head.
Posted by Brad Jensen on 02-13-2001 02:39 PM
Fraud!!!Go to my post in “I am from the year 2040…” and debunk my calculations on time travel.You can’t, because you are a fraud!
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-13-2001 03:31 PM
This is getting just …weird …enough.John Titor – Are you being obtuse about Bonnie’s inquiries for more personal reasons? Her logic is pretty sound, and you’re avoiding discussing some of the things that people naturally find curious about other cultures. If I was traveling in any other cultural setting, I would want to know about … The Culture. What kind of music is popular, what kind of recreation is enjoyable, what holidays are important…Being a bit coy, I would say, for someone who’s been through the rigors of such heavy historical dramas. My guess is that there are some simple folk songs that people find some pleasure in hearing, in the future (especially after cultural destabilizing events).Do you feel some pleasure in breathing clean air and not having to check a geiger counter every few miles?Are there people in this time period who are hip (aware) of Time Travelers and who accept you as one? I would imagine there are folk in our time, who travel in different circles (out of the mainstream), who have some money and/or some power, and who know things that the rest of us do not. Are you, or others, in touch with people like that? How ARE you financing things?And if this is NOT for real, working that tongue a little harder ‘gainst the edge of your cheek – for the rest of us simpletons, could earn you some game points.
Posted by Jeffery Birks on 02-13-2001 05:39 PM
I spotted few typing errors in Johns comments so I will assume that he has had an average education by our standards. There are better questions than those posed, ones which he should find easier to answer, but for anyone else would be much harder;[1] Name the immediate political succeosor’s to George Bush and Tony Blair.[2] Name any human being/animal/invention which became famous from obscurity prior to today (This is really easy, just name anyone who shot to fame for anything – provided they are completely unknown now, and that it happens soon).[3] Name any near future shock event that makes history – political assassinations, inventions, marriages etc, same rules – it should happen soon with nobody having a clue it was about to happen (except maybe time-travelers).If you are older than 36 then there should be 2 of you here right now. You would both possess the same basic fingerprints and DNA. If you really want to prove your case then meet up with your younger self and get some police evidence.
Posted by Angel Lynnn on 02-13-2001 06:10 PM
ExclamationJohn,Would you be willing to call in on Art’s show on Wednesday, Feb. 14? He will have open lines all night.If he had a time traveler line open would you call in?How long will you be here in 2001?When are you going back?What all are you taking back with you?Is propane still around in the future?Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions.Angel Lynnn
Posted by Roy Meserve on 02-13-2001 06:43 PM
A most compelling story and an interesting person. I am no scientist so cannot question adequately the physics involved in such endeavors- but I could not understand Al Bielek and his recounting of the science behind the Montauk episode either, but I know he was telling the truth. For those interested, from that interview and Mr Bielek’s book, I fully believe time and space travel exists,(since 1983) although under exactly whose aegis I do not presume to know.And your socio/eco/political comments about our present state and its fate are eminently believable and highly likely.I would hope that the paradise I live in would somehow be spared (the Hawaiian Islands) but I suspect it would not be spared as a strategic target for obvious reasons. Indeed, in general terms I understand innately for myself why these things must come to pass. May God have mercy on our souls.Thanks for your own curiosity and courage. I wish you and your family only the best…for all time.R.C. Meservercmeserv@lava.net
Posted by Mike Kolesnik on 02-13-2001 06:55 PM
TalkingBut I will absolutely not get sucked into another “Waverider” hoax.Come on people, don’t you remember the Waverider?The Waverider and his fantastic faxes to AB?Well I do.And I admit he suckered me too…for a while.I also remember when he went on the show and made a complete fool of himself. Art finally came to his senses too and blasted him. It would be nice to find out the date he was on and get a copy of the broadcast.Webmaster? A little help please.Well anyway, back to the subject matter. I don’t hate John and I don’t dislike him either. I am nuetral about him.
There is a world of difference between him and the Waverider though. John has an articulate manner of writing and has an amazing command of our present language (35 years old by him) I also went back and reread ALL his posts and I only found one spelling error and no grammatical errors, so he pretty much shames me on that count. His written content seems to be well subdued and consistent. (except for the 2004 vs. 2005 thing) John seems to be of above average IQ and conducts himself in a dignified manner.Of course all this analysis was made from his posts so he could be an entirely different person in real life.Since I am not completely galvanized against John I have thought about the possibility of Human TT. (ET TT is another matter)Logically though the revelation of his TT ability still makes no sense, as he could easily question people of this time and get all sorts of info without revealing himself.So that leads to the question why would he reveal himself if he has no stated aganda for doing so?Some hypothesis:[1] John IS a TT’er who has a hidden agenda. It could be as simple as a gentle nudge in a certain direction. ( It ain't gonna happen John, for the most part humans are a stubborn illogical lot whose memory of past events is in the area of weeks, instead of years or decades)[2] John came here to give somebody a “Back to the Future” type of push so as to invent the Time Machine. ( My opinion on this is that no one needs to “invent” the TM because if is has been built in the future then it has always been invented, and we are merely waiting for someone to “discover” it. Just look back at most of the major advancements in science, almost every invention of science already existed, it only needed people to put it together.
About the only things humans have invented deal in the arts. music etc. This opinion comes from the “all times exist at once” theory.)[3] John came back for some kind of nostalgia tour and has decided to take a rest stop in 2001 ( don’t stay too long John or you will become polluted by us to such an extent you will probably end up in Vegas hocking your TM at the tables!)[4] John came here to witness some catastrophic near future event and won’t tell us about it (to me this would be the most plausible reason of them all because whatever he tells us would be rendered mute by the “event”)< your thoeries here>
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-13-2001 07:10 PM
SmileI’d just like to say, before John Titor, (A.K.A. TT_0 in the post where he’s been taken out almost) that when he posts, he does a maneuver that focuses the question back to the receiver, as to have him think it’s been answered, and to shut him up. (Which in fact, he just avoided answering it, by doing what he did). He does this very often, and I’d just wanted to point that out before he did it again.Hey TT_0, why didn’t you acknowledge my last post? It’s me TTA. I know your feeling the pressure, and it’s only going to get worse.-Javier C.P.S. You should have seen Johns reply posts to me in the beginning. He likes to use the word “Kill” alot.
Posted by John Titor on 02-13-2001 11:32 PM
((John has been unable to explain time travel, I will explain it here.))
I could be wrong but I don’t recall being asked to “explain time travel”. If you could point that out to me in the posts I would appreciate it.
So it’s ritualized combat on the battlefield of differential geometry. It’s a shame we couldn’t have more constructive dialogue on the subject. Of course, I’ve left my physics book in the time machine so unless you snuck in a hidden land-mine, I found your opening move very straightforward. However, you’re too confident I won’t be able to offer an explanation that I’m sure other physics fans will appreciate. I wonder if Einstein and Grossmann did it this way or maybe they just listened to each other and tried to build on what they thought would work. Oh well.
((..and debunk my calculations on time travel. You can’t, because you are a fraud!))
When I look up debunk, I see: “To expose or ridicule the falseness, sham or exaggerated claims.” The reason I cannot debunk your calculations is because they are true. They are not false, based on speculative facts or exaggerated. They are just incomplete. What you really want me to do is finish your explanation or I will be an imposter.
((There are, however, certain quantities that do remain constant. These constants are related to four-dimensional quantities known as metric tensors.))
Actually, I don’t think that’s correct. Minkowski space-time (4-D) will not allow you to use Pythagoras’ theorem to decribe tensors because time needs to be expressed with the opposite sign. (please excuse my change of varibale case).
ds^2 = -c^2dt^2 + dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2
(where ds describes time-like and space-like trips).
The tensor we should be discussing is:
ds^2 = -a^2dt^2 + w^2(df – wdt)^2 + (r^2/ D)dr^2 + r^2dq^2
I hope I got the symbols right but you should be able to recognize this…right? nuts… the a, f, r, Delta and q didn’t make the translation in this font.
((The US government, including the UN, has its hands in everything from biological tests to secret planes that can fly out of Earths atmosphere.))
Care to share with me how you solved the overheating problem on your spaceplane?
Javier, don’t worry. I’ll talk to you too. Please check again and you’ll find my hello.
I will get to and review the questions I missed. I apologize if my answers seemed flippant. There are many posts I want to respond to and I am unable to pay as much attention as I would like.
Posted by Andrew Hubbard on 02-14-2001 04:10 AM
QuestionThis is great.here is some questions:(1) Does the last name Hubbard have any historical(is that the right term?) relevance?(2) What happens with Australia? does it play a major part in the war?(3) What colloquial language is used in the future?(4) What exactly happens to the water? does it get poisoned from radiation?(5) Have you actually met your parents? if so, what are their thoughts on you?(6) Does time have ends?(7) Lets just say that people from the future are manipulating events now, such as preventing a tragedy, making it never occur. If it never occurred, no body would be sent back to stop it, which would mean that the event does take place. This would lead to the prevention of it happening again, and so on. What would happen in one of these situations?
Posted by Ryan Murphy on 02-14-2001 05:28 AM
John, if you really did travel through time you’d be dead. You have to take into account that the universe is expanding, the Earth, the solar system and the galaxy are all moving. If you truely did travel back through time, you’d materialize in 1970 where the Earth WILL be in 2036, which is the vacuum of space..
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-14-2001 06:25 AM
You requested I point out some inconsistencies. I’ll point out one in the following exchange between you and I.[[I do but your questions were rather specific. I would love to talk physics and I’ll be happy to walk through the operationof the unit.((1) exposing yourself, you’ve very likely broken several regulations,))No, I haven’t.((2) Put yourself at risk by doing so,))Yes, that’s potential true but what I gain offsets that. Does that statement answer the question why time traveler’s donot revel themselves?((3) should know a hell of a lot more about the machines you’re operating,))I do know very much about it. I’m just not willing to share it with everyone.((4) are inconsistent in several aspects of your posts.))If you could point out the specific questions I will be happy to address them. ]]Specifically, you stated my questions were “rather specific” and you’d be “love to discuss physics and happy to walk through the operation (I assume of the machine)”. A few lines later you state (after me saying you should know a hell of a lot more about the machines you’re operating) that you do know much about it, but you’re not willing to share it with everyone. So… which is it? Are you willing to share information on the operation, a walk through of the machine, time travel… or AREN’T YOU?
Posted by Brad Jensen on 02-14-2001 07:01 AM
You have been challenged John. You have finished the space-time manipulation calculations, but left important details out, of which we will not expound on.Read my reply in my string. Can you explain, just basicly mind you, the time travel process?
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-14-2001 07:18 AM
I conclude that John is:(1) Not from the future.(2) He has no time machine.(3) He is doing this for personal gain – whether monetary, or social-interaction, but more specifically, I believe he is working on either a psychology study/degree/thesis.(4) He is in his late 20’s or early 30s.If John were a time traveler, he would not be here telling us anything about himself. He certainly would not give us information regarding anything having to do with “future technology”, regardless of the divergence of timelines. You see… even a semi-unethical person would have qualms about screwing up a society that you can taste, touch, feel and experience.If John truely IS a time traveler (which he isn’t in the sense he is trying to lead us to believe) then he is here to witness an historical event that we have yet to figure out. Either the beginning of World War III (which some of us already believe is about to happen) or the beginning of Civil war. I can postulate and guess all day, at all sorts of reasons – about all all sorts of things I can figure out on my own. In other words.. if John were a time traveler, he would be here NOW to watch something about to happen (very historical, very important…). If he would answer some questions about the physics of his alledged time ship, I would be willing to go along with this some more.At this point… my points above (1-4) stand. John is a fraud.Sorry John… it was fun while it lasted.
Posted by John Titor on 02-14-2001 07:25 AM
On a nearby thread, Brad writes:
((John has been unable to explain Time Travel, I will explain it here.
So where do we start? Well let us start with one of the greatest triumphs of the human mind, the great theorem of Pythagoras, a true pillar of all mathematics and physics. The theorem, which is applicable to right angled triangles in flat Cartesian (Newtonian) space takes the form of:
c^2 = a^2 + b^2
where a, b and c are the lengths of the sides of the triangle.
Next we will jump straight to Einstein’s theory of Relativity which states that neither time, length, or indeed mass remain constant additive quantities when approaching the speed of light c.
Our simple ideas of time and space come from the fact the we are so used to living in a three dimensional universe. Einstein showed that this was simply not true and in fact all the “foundational” three laws of Newton have to be fudged by the Lorentz factor
L_f = (1 – v^2/c^2)^-1/2
There are, however, certain quantities that do remain constant.
These constants are related to four-dimensional quantities known as metric tensors. From this Einstein proved that space and time are two aspects of the same thing and that matter and energy are also two aspects of the same thing. From the second of these concepts we get the most famous equation in physics
E = mc^2
Now since time and space are aspects of space-time and we wish to travel through time and not build atom bombs we will leave E=mc^2 for the moment. To illustrate this, look at the extension of Pythagorean theorem for the distance, d, between two points in space:
d^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2
where x, y and z are the lengths, or more correctly the difference in the co-ordinates, in each of the three spatial directions. This distance remains constant for fixed displacements of the origin.
In Einstein’s relativity the same equation is modified to remain constant with respect to displacement (and rotation), but not with respect to motion. For a moving object, at least one of the lengths from which the distance, d, is calculated is contracted relative to a stationary observer.
The equation now becomes:
d^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2 (1-v^2/c^2)^1/2
and this implies that the distances all shrink as one moves faster, so does this mean there are no constant distances left in the universe? The answer is that there are because of Einstein’s revolutionary concept of space-time where time is distance and distance is time!
So now
s^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2 – ct^2
and this new distance s (remember s stands for Space-time) does indeed remain constant for all who are in relative motion.
This distance is said to be a Lorentz transformation invariant and has the same value for all inertial observers. Since the equation mixes time and space up we have to always think in terms of this new concept: space-time!
Then one runs into the problem of ‘outside dating’.
Meaning, as the traveler manipulates space-time, the rest of the universe ages normaly. Then we must take inter-dimensional transition into account. Once a hole is ripped into a dimensions fabric, it follows whatever entered the rip.
Once the travler enters the new dimension, he commences his engines to reach the c speed (speed of light), and travels through time. The rip on the travelers side will stay in the same geographic location, while traveling through time, while the rip on the new dimension will follow the traveler.
Once the desired time is reached, the travelar reenters the rip, and he has effectively traveled through time))
((As for John Titor’s corrections on space-time manipulation, he has completed it correctly. However, he still an imposter.))Apparently, I have made the leap from “fraud” to imposter. At least that’s a start and I respect my opponent on his polite yet quiet concession on the other thread.
I wish to emphasize a point I tired to make earlier. Even though I answered the question correctly, it doesn’t really prove one way or another if I’m a time traveler and you should not think otherwise.
I might just be really quick at looking up things up on the web.
I suppose we could debate whether or not I’m a fraud all the way up to the point I leave your world-line.
Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-14-2001 08:05 AM
Why do I keep flashing back to the Monty Python movie ” Brazil “? The picture of those old typewriters with those hilarious screen magnifiers just sticks in my head. Is this the world we are heading towards where everything is so bizzarely complicated that nothing works?
Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-14-2001 09:05 AM
AngryTime out!I thought the idea here was to have constructive dialogue.Personally I don’t give a rat’s behind whether or not John is from the future.I have enjoyed this discussion more than any I’ve been in before. First off why the personal attacks? I’ve mentioned before that this guy is a study in self control. He never sinks to the level of the aggressor, some of us could learn from that.NEWS FLASH:In case somebody here has not noticed!When was the last time you spoke with someone as intelligent and well versed in these subjects?I hope John or whatever his name is writes a book. I’ll publish him if he wants.The story John tells is sobering, realistic, and ENTERTAINING.
The last time I looked participation here was discretionary. If you don’t like the subject, either question the guy, expose the guy, or leave the guy alone. Alternatively you can learn from what he says.
I don’t understand all the personal attacks.Let’s say that John is a “confused person” would it not be kinder to help him regain his senses, than to attack him.Let’s say he’s writing a book. Hey John “great story” when does the book come out.Let’s say he’s a hoaxer and really enjoys deceiving everyone and lies all the time. Mr. Titor we have a job for you in D.C. after the “Neanderthal” gets voted out in 4 years.I know people who would consider John’s world a reasonable improvement over what we have today. I agree with them.
If you had to guess what John’s political affiliation was what would you say?DemocratRepublicanLibertarianIndependentConservativeLiberalNone of it fits does it?
I have revelation for you. This guy is “an American”.As gloomy a picture as he paints, the society he describes is leaps and bounds ahead of us in their reverence for the Constitution which as John says we should all read.JC has been on this guy’s case for a while now and I don’t see “Titor” insulting him or anyone else.As to the frequency of the word “kill” in his posts. so what? it proves nothing and if you look at all the posts that statement is invalid.Go read some of Ed Dames’s garbage.I’m not here to defend John I’m expressing my frustration with the posters that derive their ego gratification by attacking others and hitting below the belt.By below the belt I mean “unwarranted personal attacks”Read the rules of this BBS, you’ll see that it’s supposed to be an open forum for “discussions from the other side of the fence” if you want namby pamby traditional BS go to the Rush Limbaugh show, or maybe you like born again Christian lies, Jerry Fallwell has a few books to sell you.To the physicists and physics enthusiasts. Let’s see your proof, your CV, and your school transcripts. Do you want to talk about verifiable backgrounds?
Why don’t you subject yourself to the same scrutiny that you subject others to. Most serious physicists would be hard pressed to come “here” of all places and “demand” empirically tested responses from a guy who claims to be from 2036. Get a clue!I suggest that if he is an attention monger hoaxer, he got you. He made you get flustered and loose your sense of decorum. Your folly not his.Before I forget. Anyone who has been on the Internet longer than 5 minutes knows that spelling errors, and grammatical errors are not considered to be indicative of a person’s intelligence, or educational background.No I will not engage in name calling on a personal basis, and I won’t respond to flame e-mails, and I won’t be posting any more in this thread. Some of you are childish and have a mob mentality. who wants to discuss time travel, physics, or the time of day, with a lynch mob.Peace[Edited by Ernie Vega on 02-14-2001 at 09:16 AM]
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-14-2001 09:44 AM
((“NEWS FLASH:In case somebody here has not noticed!When was the last time you spoke with someone as intelligent and well versed in these subjects? ”Well… last time *I* personally spoke to someone about these subjects who is as ‘well-versed’ was about 30 minutes ago when I came from speaking to a couple of physicists upstairs. Somehow, I end up speaking to a lot of these types of folks (physicists) – I guess it might have something to do with the job I do for the government.“The last time I looked participation here was discretionary. If you don’t like the subject, either question the guy, expose the guy, or leave the guy alone. Alternatively you can learn from what he says. I don’t understand all the personal attacks. ”))You’re right, however, I don’t think we are attacking him, we are QUESTIONING HIM. Somehow I always see this out of liberally-biased people, when someone is being quizzed, these liberally-biased people complain of attacks when they (or their heros) can’t answer questions to someone’s satisfaction. He has not answered questions to anyone’s satisfaction thus far. He has subjected himself to our scrutiny and you are jumping to his defense because you feel bad for him? Don’t. He put himself in this position. He is responsible for the questions, not you.“Let’s say that John is a “confused person” would it not be kinder to help him regain his senses, than to attack him. Let’s say he’s writing a book. Hey John “great story” when does the book come out. ”Not at all. John is not confused. John is also not a time traveler, but he has a fantastic imagination. That much is true. Political correctness is not my forte, nor do I profess that anyone use it anymore. It is passe. Sorry. PC is thought control, and being NICE to someone so as not to hurt their feelings is a by-gone thing, of another era.“Let’s say he’s a hoaxer and really enjoys deceiving everyone and lies all the time. Mr. Titor we have a job for you in D.C. after the “Neanderthal” gets voted out in 4 years. ”Hmmm… now, you bring me to the point of asking you – why are you now attacking the President of the United States? What has he to do with any of this? Why are you calling him a Neanderthal? Because your guy, Gore, lost the election? I’m sorry you feel that way, especially since you seem to think we ought to be nice to John and not attack him (even though we weren’t). You thought, more than likely, we should have been nice to Clinton as well. I expect you to act the same way as you expect me to act. Don’t attack the President (in particular since he has nothing to do with this conversation).The one thing I can agree with you that was mentioned, that I didn’t quote here was the idea of spelling errors, grammer errors and such. I’m certain I have spelling errors. I have almost 21 years of hard-core “schooling” and I make serious spelling errors all the time. That includes over 9 years of college, thoughout which, writing was one of the most important aspects. We all make errors, in spelling… judgement. Perhaps we could all be nicer to those of us who make spelling errors.However, Ernie, when one places himself up for study, as has John, then one needs to understand that there will be questions. These are not attacks (as your crude comments about the President of the United States were), but questions concerning his veracity. Question yourself, before you judge others motives. I’ve questioned MYSELF on whether I should even consider joining this discussion. I did so based solely on my inherit need to know about things like time travel. I asked legitimate questions. They were ignored, then later, when I asked others, they were skirted. John is therefore, either a liar, writer or a man who simply doesn’t want to get caught in a circle of lies from which he can not extract himself. That is too bad.I really hoped it was the real thing, this time.
Posted by Kennith Viccars on 02-14-2001 09:50 AM
This is no more then a comedy sketch thread now.Keep it coming, it’s great material.John, you ever consider doing stand up?
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-14-2001 10:24 AM
http://pub2.ezboard.com/fmagisystemstimelordsanonymus.showMessage?topicID=53.topicIn case anyone is interested is looking at them.
Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-14-2001 02:53 PM
Red faceTouche? Rick:I would have sent this to you personally but you won’t accept e-mails. Your web site is unreachable. and ICQ is not an option for me. Do you actually use ICQ from work? where there is sensitive information?I admit it was naive indeed for me to think I could get away with my last post without being taken to task for it.So I hereby eat my words about not posting anymore. I guess that makes me a liar also.Why did you assume I was directing my comments to you? my statements were not an indictment of your questions in particular. In fact I didn’t consider “your” statements as an attack at all until you called JT a liar.I’m not defending Titor or his claims, he did not answer some of my question to my satisfaction either, but I don’t take that to mean I have license to call him a liar. Do you call everyone that doesn’t give you a satisfactory answer a liar? if so does that really make sense?As to scrutiny being self inflicted. I have personal experience there also.If you care to look. I make statements on my web sites that yield thousands of e-mails pro and con. I deal with controversial topics, I write about them, and I market alternative energy devices. I use physics in my work every day.Can you explain the mechanics of creating a trans-dimensional vortex?What would happen if you mixed equal parts 4oz each of: bronzing powder, epoxy, and bee’s wax,and NASA grade quartz, then into it you introduce a gold plated rod, introduce 2 coils, one on each side. Attach a tone generator to each coil reversing the polarities.
Then attach a power supply of to each tone generator say, 12 volts / 500 Ma. Once the epoxy sets up.
Set one generator to pulse at 18 hz and the other at 11hz and pushed the on button? What would happen? any clue? If you could get this to spin at say 3600 rpm what would happen then?What would the use of pi as opposed to phi in a formula for attenuating a static EMF do to a multidimensional construct?If you could see zero point energy what color would it be?Is there a sub-atomic particle that requires being acknowledged before it can be measured? If so explain why?Why does water have molecular memory? If it does, does it mean we don’t need to use drugs anymore, and we can just charge water with a sample?How is homeopathic medicine prepared? do you really believe that, a homeopath in Schenectady New York has the equipment to perform a 40 million to 1 dilution of a microgram of some substance with any degree of accuracy?I have my fair share of supporters and detractors regarding my life work, and political ideology.
I have been called everything you can imagine that is unpleasant, by people that don’t know me at all. Excuse me if I take issue with this. Notice how quickly you labeled me a liberal. Why Rick? was it something I said? or did you make other assumptions about me? based on my profile? or my surname?I don’t deny anyone’s right to say what they want. In fact I’ll go to the mat for free speech. That’s a basic right we have here in the U.S.Your profile implies that you are a patriotic American. If so why don’t you see what Titor is really doing. Patriotism is something near and dear to me. My family has lost much in defense of idealism.My family has been involved in the military, government, and diplomacy for 900+ years, in many nations where my ancestors have lived starting with Spain and culminating here. I take politics and politicians very seriously, and you should also since they are the manipulators of our society, and attempt to architect our way of thinking.All I know about you is in your profile and your post. None of it is enough for me to feel the need to insult you, or be condescending to you as your post was to me. I don’t know you!For the record.I don’t think anyone who ran for office last November was worth a vote.I’m not a liberal.Gore was never “my” guy.Clinton is no better no worse than any other politician.If P.C. is passe why can’t I say the President is a neanderthal.If you really like “guns, shooting” and you are interested in democracy, you should be reading the writing on the wall, like many other patriots.In the not so distant future you may have to actually live up to the Patriotic ideal that gun advocates talk about all the time, and actually have to go out and defend the Constitution. Would you do this? I would, against all enemies foreign and domestic. This includes the governmet by the way.I don’t think the enemy is “Black” or “Hispanic” or from the middle east. If you have to fight for your country and your family during your lifetime it will most likely be against Americans of all races.The office of the President of the United States is the most important job on the planet.
Much depends on the President’s ability to think, and act in a decisive and clear fashion, our lives depend on it.Although I don’t know President Bush personally, nor would I care to make his acquaintance.
It is common knowledge that in the brain department he is (let’s be P.C. so you don’t have a partisan fit) to say the least “challenged”. This is a matter of record not conjecture. Surely you are not going to deny that.What would be your guess as to Dan Quaile’s IQ?Would you argue that point of light?2 less than brilliant people as President, and Vice President in a row says as much about Republicans, as the Clinton scandals, and Gore’s ineptitude say a about the democrats.Can you honestly state here that in the last 8 years you did not voice any opinion about Clinton, or something personally disparaging about him or his wife. Did you ever call Carter a coward?Did you just start your job at the government? if you started before the new administration why are you so quick to jump to your new boss’s defense and so quick to indict your previous boss?If you could, would you debate the President on internal issues? or foreign policy? I would. According to the Constitution everyone is fair game for scrutiny “especially” the President.A large segment of the population has become indifferent to the actions of the FED.
We are all going to pay dearly for acting like “sheep”.Government Phycisists do not really discuss time travel with “System Engineers”. Unless they are just conjecturing to impress you, and don’t really know much more than you do.If they did they would go to jail for telling you.
Unless of course you have adequate security clearance, in which case “you” would likely be in breech discussing it here. Moreover you would already know the truth about time travel, so there would be no point in seeking it here.Working for the government does not of itself give you access to classified information. I worked for the government in the past and all it got me was an education in government squandering of taxpayer money.You are a systems Engineer working for a government agency right? I have a 5 questions for you.
[1] What happens to your budget next year if you don’t use up all of this year’s allotment?[2] What happens to the hardware that your agency replaces with newer models?[3] Have you ever performed a partisan task while on the job?[4] Have you ever made a political contribution to keep your job?[5] Have you ever used your office PC to surf the web for non work related reasons?
See how easy it is to take a cheap shot.It was government scientists that decided that Heroin addicts in methadone programs were being discriminated against when denied work driving Trains and buses, even piloting aircraft, or as air traffic controllers. The rationale was that since some addicts showed agitation, and others became lethargic, that in general Methadone does not have a deleterious effect on concentration, and coordination. They actually went as far as to publish that Methadone only has a placebo effect and does not produce a high.Going to credibility and proof? Just how much is enough for you?If I were to tell you a story that was fantastic in nature and read like a science fiction book. This story would relate meetings with high ranking Military officers, DOD operatives, The CIA. It dealt with UFO, E.T., global politics, and manipulation of the American press by foreign operatives in cahoots with the CIA. Would you believe?I think not.What if you were able to verify that all of the above actually took place by checking declassifed documents, addresses, military records, police reports, individual personal validation by witnesses, and the only thing you could not know for sure was what was discussed at these meetings.Would you then believe? I doubt it, why? because the actual facts (the conversations) can’t be verified.I have lived such a story and I know I could never prove it to anyone’s satisfaction, yet it really happened to me, I was nearly killed. I even have permission from the government to tell anybody I want because they know there’s not a snowball’s chance in hell that anyone (that counts)would believe it.I have considered fictionalizing it but it irks me to have to lie so people will take me seriously. Since I don’t need the money, and I don’t want to have to respond to every question posed to me, intelligent or not, I choose to keep it to myself and my friends.My point is that as hard as you try on this board, there is no way you are going to find the truth (about time travel at least)you are looking for until someone pulls up to you in a time machine and takes you to another time.I enjoy a good debate as much as the next guy, and I'm prepared to back up all my statements. I do however require a certain amount of civility to enter into protracted debate, as I believe that the moment you lose perspective, the conversation becomes moot.I do feel that some personal attacks are valid. If a person is harming others with his statements, and has been “proven” to be dishonest, and malicious in intent.
Like the President for instance
I have no problem with anyone taking them on on a personal level. I do it so I would be a hypocrite to expect others not to.Again I appeal to you to e-mail me if you want to carry this any further we are off topic now.Peace
Posted by Heather Cattles on 02-14-2001 03:40 PM
I have to agree with Ernie in some aspects. So what if you don’t believe he’s a true time traveler? Leave it at that. I’m always open to ideas, I neither poo poo them nor do I automatically say their true. I like to say I sit on a line between where I can go either way. I’m not frowned upon because I make descisons too fast. There’s a lot in this world we don’t know.. everything from creatures, to diseases to even time travel.Personally I find this thread interesting, without a lot of the just totally putting John down. If you don’t believe him fine, leave it at that. John, you are an interesting person and I’m here and I enjoy seeing your replys, be it real or not. I’m just glad to see a person or two remaining cool in this and not going towards personal attacks.John, if you are a true time traveler, when you leave to go back to the future, give my “Hello” to the future.-Heather
Posted by Andrew Hubbard on 02-14-2001 05:13 PM
I feel my earlier questions were written without much thought.
I have read all of your posts, and although I don’t ‘believe’, I do find what you are saying very very interesting. I would like to rephrase a few of my questions, In hope that it may make it easier for you to answer (feel free to just answer yes/no).
I am mainly interested in the roles/parts Australia plays (as I live here) in the war and then the general way of life after the war. I understand you may not have much information regarding other countries, but I thought I would ask anyway.1) What role does Australia play in the war? You stated elsewhere that they repulse a Chinese invasion – Does this mean Australian government side with your enemy? (As I think I recall you stating that they allied with your side + Russia… Could be wrong though.)2) Does intercontinental transportation still exist? If so, have you visited other countries?On a more observational note, the world you describe reminds me of the post sacked Trantor in Asimov’s ‘Foundation’ series. And that makes me smile.Thanks
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-14-2001 07:48 PM
SmileJohn,Why do you not answer people’s questions, but only answer certain questions that they ask?Here’s a question, why not answer Rick’s Post? He brought out some good points, I’m sure there worth commenting on. And I’m pretty sure lots of people here would love to hear your input on them.-J.C.
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-15-2001 01:09 AM
Well John, I imagine you are here gathering technology for the forces of “Good” – or at least for the forces of just plain old decent folk doing the best they know how.Today’s news stories“In a news report reminiscent of the days of the old USSR, Pravda recently claimed that Pres. Bush’s National Security Adviser, Condoleezza Rice, made belligerent comments about Russia to the magazine El Figaro. Only problem: Rice was never interviewed with El Figaro. Rice’s office tells NewsMax.com most of the claims made in the reports were fabricated.”Any idea whose provoking this?…and this one“MOSCOW –– The Russian military held air exercises near Norway and Japan on Wednesday, forcing fighter jets in both countries to scramble and eliciting a strong protest from Japan, which said the planes violated its airspace.Japan’s Foreign Ministry called in a Russian diplomat to protest and the defense agency said the Russian military planes violated Japanese airspace twice.…“Russia has sharply increased test flights of its planes since NATO’s campaign in Kosovo,” said Alexander Pikayev, a military analyst at the Carnegie Endowment’s Moscow office. “The military wants to show that it’s too early to write Russia off.”“Whether they violated airspace of not, that’s not the key thing,” said Pavel Felgenhauer, an independent military analyst. “They were demonstrating the rebirth of Russia’s military might.”Pikayev said Wednesday’s exercises may also be a response to recent signals from Washington that Russia no longer occupies a privileged place in U.S. foreign policy.____I got about 70-80% of your dimension ripping tutorial, BTW. Thanks
Posted by Chad Dirks on 02-15-2001 01:12 AM
Hrm, Mr. Titor, I do not believe anything that you have said, nor do I believe that you are in any manner what you claim to be.…you are of course, welcome to hold the same opinion of myself, but since this does appear to be a forum for discussion, I shall try to lend what I can, yes?(Please forgive my lacking grammar, and by all means, don’t feel forced to read or respond, this is quite lengthy.)[1] You have claimed several times that you will not participate in assisting anyone to get out of ‘death by probability’. Yet any number of the things that you have said could have already caused an individual to do or not do something that will now result in them either dying, or escaping death an otherwise fated death.It does not matter whether or not everyone believes you. For every statement made there are people who believe you, and there are people changing their living patterns in response to those beliefs. There is no way for you know there is no future world leader reading this and believing.————————————————————[2] You claim that you have no interest in proving to us that you are a time-traveller. To hear you take such a stance is laughable. Look at what a show you have put on here. Instead you tell us that you only wish us to make us aware of time-travel as a possiblity (see #1 again), or that you only wish to observe us and speak of cultural and religious issues, something interesting to a historian.You came and posted on this site with one intention that was clear as of your first post: to make us believe that you are a time-traveller. You have continued this thread for that purpose alone, and I find everything you have done supports this.As far as wishing to speak of issues regarding our humanity, or culture, it is quite clear that this is not your intention (contrary to what you insist). If you truly wished to do this your first line would not have been, ‘I am a time-traveller’. If you truly wished to do this you would not have continued this thread once you realized that line would not serve your claimed goals.You certainly did not expect to examine our humanity or culture by first telling us that we would be discussing it with a time-traveller. The entirety of this thread has been: you developing your story.This thread that you have continued to participate in has gone entirely counter to your claimed goals, and it is obvious that you are knowingl fueling it in that direction.————————————————————[3] “5100 I have now required a couple of special “tweaks” that had to be done by one of the software engineers in 1975”“We need something portable. The 5100 isn’t required for its reliability, its needed to translate between APL, UNIX and a few obscure IBM mainframe languages.”I find it very difficult to believe that a software tweak (hence ‘software engineers’, -software-) done to a 1975 machine could cause it to do this translation more effectively or more portably than something around even today. I find it almost impossible to believe that a tweak done by a ‘software engineer’ in 1975 could provide for you something that you could find at no other place between now and ‘your time’, and certainly without having to make a stop-over in our time to get back that far.Furthermore, I find the notion that one of a limited number of time-machines would be used in this manner to be nothing short of nonsensical. There are more effective ways to accomplish what you claim in this regard.————————————————————[4] I have, and continue to believe Dr. Hawking’s view in regards to the possibility of time travel if indeed the model of time is what you have suggested, that all possibilities occur in different time-lines, in different universes is the way that time truly is. For this reason alone I cannot accept you. It is entirely logical, and I have seen no good case to counter it.————————————————————You claim that you have no desire to prove your story to us, yet everything you have done from the moment you first posted here has flown in the face of that. As I mentioned before, your desire is so strong that you have even appeared to become heated in manner in reaction to your validity being questioned.What is more, you bring with you the claim that you will tell us no names, no locations, or any specifics as a result of your supposed ethics. If those were indeed the ethics you were committed to and reasoned with, you would not be here now.However, I do commend you on engineering your story, as by its very nature we cannot prove it false.[I realize that I am only feeding this frenzy, but that speaks for what it is and what Mr. Titor has indeed accomplished, it is effective in provoking a response, but then again, so is stepping on a rusty nail]Mr. Titor:====================================I visit with a pink unicorn in the garden behind my house at night and it talks to me. I would show it to you but it only comes out when I am alone. Any attempts to trick it to do otherwise would be unsuccessful, but you are certainly welcome to try and prove what I say false.[Edited by Chad Dirks on 02-15-2001 at 01:34 AM]
Posted by Ryan Murphy on 02-15-2001 02:41 AM
Buddy.. listen..This is for all you other believers to:Time travel may be possible, but if you were to time travel, you would NOT land on Earth. You would land in a vacuum of space. You have to take into account that the universe is expanding, the Earth, the solar system and the galaxy are all moving. If you truely did travel back through time, you’d materialize in 1970 where the Earth WILL be in 2036, which is NOT Earth.. it’s space.Get it? You’d be dead. It’s impossible.Answer this factoid, John, and I will believe you until the ends of the Earth.
Posted by Dan Rouse on 02-15-2001 07:54 AM
Ryan…couldn’t distance be expressed as a function of time?If that’s true, is it not possible that a time warp implies a space warp?
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-15-2001 08:07 AM
Heather, Ernie and others.. I did leave it at that. Haha. I posted my opinion. That’s all I was doing. For the record, I have answered Ernie’s letter offline due to the length of the response, and the fact that it is offtopic to a great extent, I did not post it here.I have nothing against John Titor, Ernie or anyone else. I’m simply trying to get to the bottom of the story. Unless, and until John comes forward with more information, my opinion is formed and won’t change.I did however, post pictures of his time machine (actually, I posted the link where you can find them.. let me be more specific, I’ve never seen this thing in person, though I would like to see it).If John wants a way to prove anything – which from his previous posts he has stated he DOESN’T WANT TO DO – then I am more than willing to look over his proofs. However – just because I were to look something over gives no more meaning to the rest of you than it would if one of you looked his stuff over, believed it then told ME.You see.. we live in a time when we must see to believe. All of us.I think the thread is very interesting myself. I think the guy that called us Sheep is wrong and it is folks like HIM that completely close off education and communication. *I* am not trying to do so. I simply made some statements that I don’t believe John is “for real”. If he is, I would love to know he is. However, so far, he hasn’t put enough evidence forward. So… PLEASE continue the thread and learn, if you can, the truth.That’s all *I* want.
Posted by Ryan Murphy on 02-15-2001 08:08 AM
It would be impossible to calculate where the Earth would be, either 30 years ago or 30 years from now.
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-15-2001 08:28 AM
Hi AllI can see why Mr. Titor enjoys this.You guys are pretty passionate about your beliefs. Then again, that’s what its all about.Going over a few of the posts, and I say that they are full of the classical – “I find it hard to believe, therefore I declare it to be impossible” – types of postulates. I can see the levels you are defining, in some cases, – and I can see that they are encompassed in possibilities you are not consideringEx.—I find it very difficult to believe that a software tweak (hence ‘software engineers’, -software-) done to a 1975 machine could cause it to do this translation more effectively or more portably than something around even today. I find it almost impossible to believe that a tweak done by a ‘software engineer’ in 1975 could provide for you something that you could find at no other place between now and ‘your time’, and certainly without having to make a stop-over in our time to get back that far. —Also, Ryan – I think John has provided some explanation regarding how positionings are affected by the mass and gravity of known OBJECTS. I would have to study the posts a little more carefully, though I would say that the variables used in computing projected postionings, rely heavily on detecting these known masses as opposed to trying to figure out where they would end up in space (and time).One of the first assumptions I would discard is that physics suppositions are “either/or” proposals. My view (with a few years under my belt), is that things work more fluidly than that.In viewing the following models take into consideration that the degrees I am talking about, are minuscule with respect to their effects on human activity – that’s why the “10%-15%” divergence over some 60 years, sounds OK to me.If you looked at a weather system of HIGH and LOW pressures, and fronts, you would see isobaric “circles” that delineate common weather areas. Correlate these fields, as local “areas” or “eras” of time. Again the differences regarding how fast time “moves” in these “circles”, would be slight and perhaps unnoticeable. They would be enough, though, to provide “circles of common interaction” and (significantly, I believe), would also provide some sort of common playing field or “fabric” – for all the individuals within that area. Moving into other regions or circles, would be fluid transistions (as opposed to “either/or” transistions). I believe such a move would also precipitate new experiences. You might then have to deal with, what Terrence McKenna termed “DEGREES OF NOVELTY AND HABIT”. Moving into other “topographical areas”, you would also have to “shift gears” … your “sense of timing” would be a bit off, until you either found some groove of activity that you could fall into, or until you could create new ways of “being” and acting, to handle the new circumstances. The effects of novelty could be noticed in little things like misteps and mistakes, or unintended synchronicities that might seem to alter your path. The effects of falling into normal routines would soon cause your new environment to loose its “newness”.Similarly, a geo-topological map (rings of altitudes) works the same in depicting (minor) GRAVITATIONAL fields. Again, I would think the degrees in gravitational differences, would be unnoticeably present, though present non-the-less.Within these geographical “circles” of time, and gravitational pulls, people work out certain local and global destinies and intentions. These then cumulate into cultural topologies.Given this model, the “degrees of separation” can only have extended effects depending on the interactivities of field compontents (you and me, or even other living things). John’s interactions on these boards probably have little effect on what’s going on in a small school room in the Ukraine, or a in hospital grieving area outside of Tokyo, at this very moment. They might have more of an effect on how you handle you’re work day after spending a morning reading posts, though. They might even have an effect on how a co-worker or fellow commuter handles their evening after they’ve been around you.Discussions regarding such potential realities do seem to be a good way to get people to think – Its about time, after all <g>.
Posted by Lee Heggy on 02-15-2001 08:31 AM
It’s very possible to calculate such coordinates but you have to have a reference point to start from that is static in relation to the motion of the solar system and the rest of the universe. We know what direction we are moving in. You merely have to plot the points along that linear track. You would also want to be very careful and exact or you would end up inside of a cow or worse.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-15-2001 08:31 AM
Actually, Ryan, that isn’t true.I can, given the right software not only calculate the specific location of the earth 30 years ago, where it will be thirty years hence.Based on the presumption that the sun is sitting still you can calculate the precise location of the earth at any time.Given that the above is not true – that is the sun is traveling through space at several thousand miles per second, as well, as the planets moving about it, and the entire arm of the galaxy in which we reside is moving as well… it is more difficult, BUT not impossible.As Captain Kirk once said to his crew after the battle with Khan, “he is thinking in two dimensions only”… we are thinking in three only. The fourth, time, is traveling away from us as precisely the same rate as it was a few moments ago. Given this we can calcuate the exact location based on several factors, knowing the current location of the sun, the past location of the sun and then figuring the future location of the sun.Given this, we know that our Earth travels in an ellipse around the sun at a given speed over 365.25 days per year. That tells us the Earth will be in a specific location 30 years from now.Personally, I’ve taken tracking programs meant for satellites and calculated the projected location of Near Earth Asteroids several times. If *I* can do it, certainly an advanced computer from the future can figure out where we are now.Rick
Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-15-2001 10:05 AM
John,How would someone that came here with no money all of the sudden have plenty of money now? You could have brought the lowest denomination coin of your time with a mint mark anywhere after 2001 and probably convinced almost all of us. At least some people. It would be hard to fake.
Posted by Simon Wiggins on 02-15-2001 10:35 AM
Cool(1) Simply inscribe your knowledge of any large scale events (disasters, discoveries, etc etc) over the next six months (there should be at least one memorable example) into a text file.(2) Encrypt said text file.(3) Give text file to a custodian. I sure Art Bell would volunteer, he’s very interested in time travel.(4) In six months time give Art the encryption key and he can reveal what you said.Easy !It doesn’t affect any timelines for that covered six months.Art can’t peek, even if he wants to, which he probably would.Thanks,Simon.
Posted by Matt Hagemeier on 02-15-2001 10:41 AM
Does anybody here remember Marc Wade from the old BBS board. He was the first time travler, if I remember right, he talked of a future solcialistic, self supporting society as well, a ww3, millions die, and so on, but I can’t remember what time he said he was from.
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-15-2001 11:12 AM
I also remember “The Sun Is Not Real” in which a poster had me in stitches with his theory that the present sun was switched to a holographic representation, in the late 70’s? early 80’s.
Posted by Randy Empey on 02-15-2001 11:40 AM
Mr. Murphy —If you are standing still on the surface of the earth, does the earth move away from you as the years progress?It is not necessary to calculate and then adjust for the exact location of the earth relative to some static frame of reference like the center of the galaxy or some magic ‘origin’ point. Everything is relative. A TT blessed with a TT-device capable of traveling through time while standing still relative to the earth wouldn’t have to worry much about where the earth would be 30 years into the future — because he and his device are already moving in such a way that he will be in the same place 30 years down the time axis.Of course this is assuming that Einsteins physics was at least accurate enough for such purposes. That is yet to be proven, but it has held strong for more than half a century, as a general case.But the reality that makes his theory seem to work makes you argument next to moot.John T. —Are we having fun yet?How ’bout some philosophy.What is your conception of the nature of reality?Is it subjective or objective?Is there one grand reality, or is it ‘to each his own’?Do you think there are any absolutes? If so, in which contexts?Things of that nature . . . has our understanding (on the level of society you fit into) changed in these respects?Does sin exist?What happens when you die?Etcetera Etcetera Etcetera . . .— Randy E.P.S. — Personally, I don’t understand why it is so important to the people who post here that they believe you . . . communications, such that they are, make perfect understanding between individuals dicey at best . . . how can I be sure that something that is in my ‘reality’ is in yours? How can anybody be sure of anything? Keep thinking . . . and perhaps, share your thoughts with those here which read first and write later.
Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-15-2001 11:45 AM
SmileHi all:I’ve read Rick’s note and thank him for it. I have no animosity towards Rick or anyone else. At the risk of being corrected I believe Rick and I have worked out our difference of opinion. At least to my satisfaction.bye for now
Posted by John Titor on 02-15-2001 12:07 PM
My Motive:
I’ve been in your time a bit longer than I had expected.
My next opportunity to go home comes in the spring. For most of my adult life, I have read about, wondered and debated about this time.
I value this opportunity to share experiences. If you absolutely believed I was a time traveler, with no skepticism whatsoever, then we would be unable to communicate. The focus of our attention would then always be on the machine. The experiences, opinions and reasons you do things are just as valid as mine and just as different.
I hope to return home with a better understanding of why you think and believe the way you do. Although I do understand the reasons for asking, I won’t gain from any communication with you by spouting physics formulas and pop culture predictions.
Please do not assume I am purposely avoiding questions. I am human, I get tired, and I forget things. Please, just remind me if I missed a question and I will get to it.
I do have one tip though.
If you want me to go over your post in detail put, “Hey John, you’re a big Jerk.” at the end of the insightful and logical part, not the beginning. In fact, maybe you could just abbreviate it and put a number rating from 1-100 next to it so I know how strong you feel. Something like, HJYABJ (78). It would save space.
The Physics of Time Travel:
ACCELERATION = TIME DILATION
As pointed out earlier, acceleration will produce time dilation. This can be observed by the “twins paradox”. As one twin stays on Earth, the other twin in his accelerating spaceship experiences a slower passing of time. When he returns to Earth, he is noticeably younger than his twin who aged normally in Earth time. This type of “time travel” (should have been proven already on this worldline) with atomic clock experiments. With sufficient power, this type of time travel will only provide practical displacement in a future direction. This type of time travel is also isolated to a single worldline. You will not meet yourself.
GRAVITY = ACCELERATION
As Einstein pointed out with his STR, the effects of gravity and acceleration are the same. Therefore, you will experience the same time travel effects in the twin paradox by being close to a large gravity source. In the atomic clock experiments mentioned above, the reason there was a difference in time was not because the clock in the plane was moving, it was because the clock in the well was closer to the center of the Earth. Constant speed is not acceleration.
LARGE GRAVITY = STATIC BLACK HOLE
The next step is to find a large gravity source to use in your time machine. Static black holes provide this type of power. As one twin approaches the event horizon or edge of the black hole, the other twin will watch him as he appears to slow down. He will notice his twin’s watch run slower until it stops at the event horizon. The twin moving toward the horizon will notice none of this and see his watch running just fine. Although possible, a trip into a static black hole will not take you to another worldline and it’s one-way. The force of gravity will crush you.
ROTATING BLACK HOLE = DONUTS-SHAPED SINGULARITY
Fortunately, most black holes are not static. They spin. Spinning black holes are often referred to as Kerr black holes. A Kerr black hole has two interesting properties. One, they have two event horizons and two, the singularity is not a point, it looks more like a donut. These odd properties also have a pronounced affect on the black hole’s gravity. There are vectors where you can approach the singularity without being crushed by gravity. (For those interested in seeing a graphic of a photon trip through a Kerr black hole, try here)
http://qso.lanl.gov/~bromley/nu_nofun.html
DONUTS-SHAPED SINGULARITY = PASSAGE INTO ALTERNATE WORLD-LINE
Another other more interesting result of passing through a donut singularity is that you travel through time by passing into another universe or worldline. Please see Penrose diagrams for Kerr Black holes or you can examine the calculations of Frank Tipler.
So now the problem becomes…where do we find a doughnut-shaped singularity?
A PONDERING HAWKING = MICRO-SINGULARITY
Steven Hawking proposed the existence of micro-singularities that were created in the big bang. They were probably about the size of a proton and disappeared over the years due to an effect of radiation evaporation. (Yes, black holes do emit energy.)
HIGH ENERGY PHYSICS = ARTIFICIAL MICRO-SINGULARITY
When I first started posting online a few months ago, I said that major breakthroughs in particle physics were around your corner. Soon, CERN will bring their big machine on line and they will be smashing very fast and high-energy particles together. One of the more odd and potentially dangerous items produced from this incease in energy will be microsingularities a fraction of the size of an electron. (for those who would like to follow the developments at CERN)
http://public.web.cern.ch/Public/Welcome.html
ARTIFICIAL MICRO-SINGULARITY = LOCALIZED KERR FIELD
Through trial and error, and although they are quite heavy, hot and capable of putting out a great deal of energy (300 – 500 megawatts), it’s discovered that these microsingularities can be electrified and captured. It is also interesting to note at this point that electrified singularities also have two event horizons. By spinning these various microsingularities, a localized Kerr field is created.
LOCALIZED KERR FIELD = TIPLER SINUSOID
By using two microsingularites in close proximity to each other, it is possible to create, manipulate and alter the Kerr fields to create a Tipler gravity sinusoid. This field can be adjusted, rotated and moved in order to simulate the movement of mass through a donut-shaped singularity and into an alternate world line. Thus, safe time travel.
I will continue with the individual posts next. Thank you for your patience.
Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-15-2001 12:42 PM
QuestionHi John:Is this what I think it is?ARTIFICIAL MICROSINGULARITY = LOCALIZED KERR FIELDThrough trial and error, and although they are quite heavy, hot and capable of putting out a great deal of energy (300 – 500 megawatts), it’s discovered that these microsingularities can be electrified and captured. It is also interesting to note at this point that electrified singularities also have two event horizons. By spinning these various microsingularities, a localized Kerr field is created.It looks like a prediction. Is it.Best regards,Ernie
Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-15-2001 01:04 PM
i would first like to state that i for one have never said you’re an idiot – i said you are aggravating. which is not really a personal problem w/yourself it is just how i perceive you to be. an adjective – not a noun.this sentence bothers me:“Although I do understand the reasons for asking, I won’t gain from any communication with you by spouting physics formulas and pop culture predictions.”so that’s what this is all about? you come here & want us to “help” you by asking questions.. so you can figure out how -we- percieve things & why we think the way we do but you do not recipricate the efforts. you only discuss things that you care about or that -you- think are important or that -you- think you will “gain” something from. seems rather -one-sided- to me.you say:“The experiences, opinions and reasons you do things are just as valid as mine and just as different. I hope to return home with a better understanding of why you think and believe the way you do. ”so you return home w/a better understanding while we’re left here w/the same questions we had before? it doesn’t seem very beneficial to -us-..just to -you- (at least from your statements).-blonnie-
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-15-2001 04:13 PM
If all the idealists who have traveled the path of confronting skeptics, were laid end to end … ?they’d be better off that way?Where are we in the universe BTW, irrespective of our relation to surrounding physical masses.The galaxy, and us with it, is traveling at ~ 390 km/sec. The Local Group, superclusters … and on out… how fast are they traveling? With respect to what? Last time I looked at the moon there were no strings attached either. It just sort of sits out there and whirs around, kinda like we do… or at least as I do. Pretty trick, if’n anyone’s asking.John – Ever have any oldsters (60-80 year olds) come up to you and mention past correspondences?Take Care All!
Posted by John Titor on 02-15-2001 05:06 PM
The following are personal rules I try to keep(unless of course they conflict with my secret agenda). I look forward to discussing any discrepancies you may find.PERSONAL RULES FOR TEMPORAL DISCLOSURE:
(1). I will not disclose any information that will cause someone to personally gain by its knowledge.
(2). I will not disclose any detailed information that would allow someone to avoid death by probability.
(3). I will not disclose any information that may compromise any future actions by individual people or threaten their family and well-being.BLONNIE:
Thank you for your persistence and patience. It would appear some of my more sarcastic comments are directed at you. They are not and I apologize.
((so i am asking questions that can NOT be changed. someone can not change the fact that “Girly G. Hottie” is the next big name in showbusiness))
Rule 3 – Your future is not unchangeable? Why couldn’t harm may come to a person if I define them as someone who will do something in the future? However, in this case, I just don’t know. I am not familiar with pop culture in 2001.
((“keep an eye out for so-and-so..they will rise to fame.” or something like that. we couldn’t -change- that..))
I find this an interesting point you’ve made again. Why do you feel that would be unchangeable?CRAIG:
((Are you being obtuse about Bonnie’s inquiries for more personal reasons? Her logic is pretty sound, and you’re avoiding discussing some of the things that people naturally find curious about other cultures…))
I very much want to discuss our cultures but please help me understand how you won’t be able to change something I tell you happened on my worldine.
((What kind of music is popular, what kind of recreation is enjoyable, what holidays are important…))
I’m not sure if you wanted to discuss these or not. If yes, I will be happy to do that.
((Do you feel some pleasure in breathing clean air and not having to check a geiger counter every few miles?))
Yes I do. However there is a fear about being here that I can only define as uncertainty. When I walk around in 2001, the air smells clean but I wonder if it really is. In 2036, there is no gray. The air is either clean or it will kill you. That feeling is very overwhelming when I eat here.
((Are there people in this time period who are hip (aware) of Time Travelers and who accept you as one?))
I have a very few precious relationships with people online who accept me as real or crazy and don’t ask any questions. Much of my email flows through them. My parents are the only ones that have access to everything I could use to prove who I am.
((I would imagine there are folk in our time, who travel in different circles (out of the mainstream), who have some money and/or some power, and who know things that the rest of us do not. Are you, or others, in touch with people like that? How ARE you financing things?))
I have taken very clever and reliable measures to go undetected. Yes, there are probably people like that but I am not in active conversation with them. My expenses are not that large. I spend a great deal of time now archiving.JEFFERY:
((I spotted few typing errors in Johns comments so I will assume that he has had an average education by our standards))
You must be energized and anxious to improve your education system then. Please tell me what you plan to do.
((1. Name the immediate political successors to George Bush and Tony Blair.))
– RULE 3
((2. Name any human being/animal/invention which became famous from obscurity prior to today (This is really easy, just name anyone who shot to fame for anything – provided they are completely unknown now, and that it happens soon).) –
RULE 2, RULE 3
((3. Name any near future shock event that makes history – political assasinations, inventions, marriages etc, same rules – it should happen soon with nobody having a clue it was about to happen (exept maybe time-travellers).)
You mean other than the mad cow pandemic, the breakthroughs in high-energy physics and the unknown functions of the 5100? I realize I’ve only been on this board for a few weeks but I assume you’ve read the other postings I’ve made about these issues months ago in order to be so definitive.
((4. If you are older than 36 then there should be 2 of you here right now. You would both possess the same basic fingerprints and DNA. If you really want to prove your case then meet up with your younger self and get some police evidence.))
I am with my younger self. I don’t have a case to prove and I wonder how many needles I would be on the receiving end for that one. With your superior education, I assume you already figured out that pretty soon someone might try that with a clone. Be careful what you take for definitive proof.ANGEL:If he had a time traveler line open would you call in?
((How long will you be here in 2001? When are you going back?))
My first opportunity to go home is this spring.
((What all are you taking back with you?))
A lot of hard drives filled with books, archived web sites, pictures and audio files. I’m also taking back family items that were lost in the war.
((Is propane still around in the future?))
Yes but not very much of it comes from natural gas. Hydrogen is converted into propane because it’s easier to handle.ROY:
((I would hope that the paradise I live in would somehow be spared (the Hawaiian Islands) but I suspect it would not be spared as a strategic target for obvious reasons))
My parents went to Hawaii on their Honeymoon. My dad told me a quick story about going to a fast food store and paying 6 or 7 dollars for a hamburger. I got an image in my head of a huge tanker filled with frozen hamburgers headed into the Pacific. Hawaii is very dependant on the mainland for food….isn’t it?
Thank you for your kind words.MIKE:
((Logically though the revelation of his TT ability still makes no sense, as he could easily question people of this time and get all sorts of info without revealing himself.))
Medium like the internet offer unique opportunities for communication. When I return, I will be debriefed on my opinions about how people in 2001 will accept time travelers.
((So that leads to the question why would he reveal himself if he has no stated aganda for doing so?))
I’m not sure I exactly said that.
((2. John came here to give somebody a “Back to the Future” type of push so as to invent the Time Machine. (My opinion on this is that no one needs to “invent” the TM because if is has been built in the future then it has always been invented, and we are merely waiting for someone to “discover” it. Just look back at most of the major advancements in science, almost every invention of science already existed, it only needed people to put it together.
About the only things humans have invented deal in the arts. Music etc. This opinion comes from the “all times exist at once” theory.))
I find this one the most interesting. What do you think would happen if the United States, China or Russia suddenly developed a time machine and the rest of the world found out about it?MY FRIEND JAVIER:
((…he does a maneuver that focuses the question back to the receiver, as to have him think it’s been answered, and to shut him up. (Which in fact, he just avoided answering it, by doing what he did). He does this very often, and I’d just wanted to point that out before he did it again.))
Hmmm….I am forced to admit I must rethink what I know about Mobius loops.ANDREW:
((1) Does the last name Hubbard have any historical(is that the right term?) relevance?))
You may leave a message to yourself if you wish.
((2) What happens with Australia? does it play a major part in the war?))
I believed I wrote about Australia a bit earlier.
((3) What colloquial language is used in the future?))
Many people use the internet for communication and entertainment. I would say that affects our speech. We type very fast.
((4) What exactly happens to the water? does it get poisoned from radiation?))
Yes, radiation affected the water but that can always be distilled out. There are biological hazards that cannot. In addition, fresh water is hard to come by without talking to someone with a gun first.
((5) Have you actually met your parents? if so, what are their thoughts on you? ))
Yes. I am with them now. I would say it’s a combination of fear and relief.
((6) Does time have ends?))
Yes. It is believed that all world-lines end. It is also thought that parallel world-lines that appear to be the same end at different times.[Highlight by Metallicman.]
((7) Lets just say that people from the future are manipulating events now, such as preventing a tragedy, making it never occur. If it never occurred, no body would be sent back to stop it, which would mean that the event does take place. This would lead to the prevention of it happening again, and so on. What would happen in one of these situations?))
Based on my understanding of time, manipulation of your worldline by future time travelers would have no affect on their original or home worldline. If that is happening, it must be for a desired outcome or result on your worldline only. If UFOs are time travelers, they plan on reaping what they sew from you not their home.RYAN
((John, if you really did travel through time you’d be dead. You have to take into account that the universe is expanding, the Earth, the solar system and the galaxy are all moving. If you truely did travel back through time, you’d materialize in 1970 where the Earth WILL be in 2036, which is the vacuum of space.))
This is an excellent point and one I thought I went over a bit earlier. There is a gravity lock system that compensates for the local gravity outside of the Tipler sinusoid. This is the reason the unit is only accurate to about 60 years.RICK:
((Specifically, you stated my questions were “rather specific” and you’d be “love to discuss physics and happy to walk through the operation (I assume of the machine)”. A few lines later you state (after me saying you should know a hell of a lot more about the machines you’re operating) that you do know much about it, but you’re not willing to share it with everyone. So… which is it? Are you willing to share information on the operation, a walkthrough of the machine, time travel… or AREN’T YOU?))
I suppose I am thinking about the physics and the engineering as separate subjects. I apologize for the confusion and I will be happy to answer your questions more directly.
((I asked legitimate questions. They were ignored, then later, when I asked others, they were skirted.))
Perhaps we could just start over again?ANDREW:
((1) What role does Australia play in the war? You stated elsewhere that they repulse a Chinese invasion – Does this mean Australian government side with your enemy? (As I think I recall you stating that they allied with your side + Russia… Could be wrong though.))
There were deep divisions in Australia also. I would associate it more with a powder keg than a civil war.
((2) Does intercontinental transportation still exist? If so, have you visited other countries?))
Yes, but the market is much smaller. No, I have not been overseas.
Page 12 on coming…
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-15-2001 07:53 PM
WinkJohn,What state do you live in now in 2001?Is John Titor your real name?What do you look like? Post a picture of your self.What is your secret agenda?Is this dialogue between people in these posts part of your secret agenda?Does your younger self realize what you are?Are you married?What rank were you in the Army?Where did you go to BCT?What company were you with, and what year did you graduate from BCT?You have any fears? If so, what are they?What are the rules for fraternizing with people who aren’t from your time; do you make friends easily here in 2001?What would the DOD do to you if they found you out?What would you do if someone attempted to investigate you? Hundreds of people go through these forums a day I’m sure. Some of which can be government. Aren’t you at all worried that it’s only a matter of time before you are found out?And you said; “I very much want to discuss our cultures but please help me understand how you won’t be able to change something I tell you happened on my worldine.”Can you elaborate further on the matter?I appreciate you answering these questions for me John, and thank you for calling me your friend .-Javier C.HJYABJ 100
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-16-2001 08:00 AM
John,I want you to understand something – since you’re using our discussions to make a determination of our thinking for when you go back. Understand that I don’t think you’re a jerk, but I believe you to be a “false time traveler” at this point. HOWEVER, I will say that you took the time to post some information that DOES answer some of my questions. Your disertation on physics (at least in a small way) confirms a few things that I think are relatively accurate.Are the pictures (at the URL I posted a couple days ago) YOUR pictures of your time machine? (http://pub2.ezboard.com/fmagisystemstimelordsanonymus.showMessage?topicID=53.topic)I’m going to help John answer a question that someone else asked. “What would the DOD do to you if they found you out?”John would be grabbed by government federal agents and held incognito until a determination could be made based on national security. He certainly would be at risk of his life in “all probability” because he IS (will be/was – put in any decriptors based on tense you wish) a threat to national security in “our time”.Here is why. John claims to come from a different time, our future time actually. Even though it is perhaps a different time thread, or time line, he could affect the outcome of our own future either through active participation or negligent participation. In other words, Johns actions could conceivable make a difference what happens. This is the main reason he is following some very specific “non interference” doctrine.The very fact that John has made himself “visible” to the users here makes him a target. Believe it or not – *I* work for the government. I work in an area that, while my particular job has nothing to do with this, am extremely interested in his statements. Yes – we in the government DO watch for things like this. However, rest assured, if I went to the security office and said “I have access to a time traveler” I’d get laughed at. I’d have to get in touch with the “right people” to “report” the incident, and even then the skeptics would over rule the “believers”.What this means is, even though John could be consider a national security threat, he certainly is safer than even me, who works daily in government facilities.Now that I have admitted my “government participation” let me tell you MY motive. Time travel. Afew days ago, someone sent me a copy of a time travel ad. I was intrigued by this. The ad, mysteriously appeared on Art Bells site last night. (Go there and look at it – you will see precisely what I saw). I have drafted a letter indicating I’m interested. Yes, I have my own weapons (and a family, grandkids and kids ) but… if I had a chance to go back in time, I would take it. Assuming I could get back. haha.My problem is that I would “interact” I believe. I would find the idea of interaction almost irresistable, which I would assume is one of the things psychologists would have a problem with time travelers in any case.The US government… Russian or any other, would be in the same boat. They would, if they could believe it, GRAB and hold time travelers – checking the veracity of their stories and preventing them from having any interaction with anyone.Sound about right John?I have a distinct feeling that I want to “believe” that John is truly a time traveler. The reason is simple and probably selfish. I have always said I want to live to see the ripe old age of 200. I MIGHT make it to 150 given todays medical advancements. If so, I have around 107 years to go. I can’t wait to see what the future holds.I want to LIVE time though, I don’t want to go to the future and not be able to get back to my family and friends. I want to see that something so fantastic and so outlandish that it is science fiction right now, come true.Those are MY motives for being here, chatting about this.Granted, there are deeper, more scientific discussions on other boards and elsewhere in the scientific community, but they are “deeper” than I wish to delve. John has given me at least that tiny hope that somewhere out there, on some time line, someone will indeed do what we’ve been believing all along.So – John, my comments about being fraudulent – please don’t take them seriously and please do not think I have anything against you personally, nor wish to discredit you. I only want the honest truth.If you tomorrow, said, Rick, this was an experiment in psychology, writing, or fantasy – whatever, I would not be surprised. If I had a way to prove you were truly a time traveler – that secret would be safe with me (as would anything else you told me). See, I believe in America, and I believe in Freedom.I believe if you’re really what you say you are – then you’re a hope for the future. Even if there is ‘civil war’ or nuclear war – people like myself are already prepared for those things.Whatever comes of this… best of luck in either your studies in psychology, time travel or writing. I’ll be listening in (and commenting) from time to time.Rick
Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-16-2001 10:26 AM
Thumbs upHi Rick, John, all:I also found John’s post regarding the specifics to be beyond much contention. My scale is tipping toward belief.I’ll say this much. The descriptions John provided are much more convincing than his ability to write a given equation. I think I understand why Rick was impressed as I know a bit more about Rick today than I did 2 days ago I mean his technical background.Here is my opinion.John thus far has demonstrated the following:Ability to discuss physics that seems to rise (eventually) to the level of the question posed.High degree of intelligence.Has not wavered in his ethical assertions regarding (verifiable) disclosure of future events.No interest in making money for this (so far)Continuity of statements (not 100%, but he’s human)Accurate cultural behavior for a person from the world he claims to come from.Has “I believe” made more than 1 verifiable prediction. (I think) correct me if I misunderstood his post.PatienceA degree of loyalty to his country, and for democracy not found every day. He has read the Constitution and understood it. IMHOHinted that he may have had something to do with recent events that did not come to pass.An accurate depiction of the climate that would escalate to the wars and events he describes.Made statements that contradict many other Time Traveler'sStatements.Has attempted to answer most of what is asked of him.The ability to accurately relate a story as if he had been there.A great deal of self control when “questioned”.(for you RickIn general has been a very good thread host.None of this proves he’s a time traveler, but it does prove to me that I should continue to read the posts, and ask further question.As someone recently mentioned a preponderance of circumstantial evidence builds credibility.I have a question for John:John, what would it take to get you to stick around after spring and leave during the next window of opportunity?I fear that another month or 2 may not be enough time to get as much said and discussed as I would like to have.Regarding the photos. I have asked 6 friends that have been in the military and “whatever” the device is in the photo looks very authentic. The manual also is what you would expect from the military. The revisions on the cover page look normal for such a manual. Maybe Rick can take a close look at the photos. Has anyone done any imaging on the photos to make the individual controls on the “machine” more visible.In your “world time” have things like “Sasquatch” , “Loch Ness monster”, and other reported unusual animals been seen, or captured or explained away.Is remote viewing used to gather military intelligence?Are psychics still common? are they used by the government?Is there a Police Dept as we know it. Have any of your top leaders or politicians been jailed or impeached?John, any chance of getting a better set of photos with more of the manual?.John please respond to my question as to “the prediction” did I jump the Gun? (get ahead of myself).One final question? Is there a Global Superpower state and what nation is it.Best regards,Ernie
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-16-2001 10:48 AM
I think I understand. I guess you are held accountable, in some way, for changes that occur in your time period. You would know, and I guess no one else has to. Let me see if I get this. You tell me about a new cultural fad – for instance, let’s say Czech Dance Wear, becomes chic. I keep my eye on trends, and invest, in a way that benefits me, at the exclusion of someone else. OR I open a shop that begins the trend and then trend burns out sooner than it otherwise would. Then you, on your time-line, notice, when you get back, that the weekly dance at the local Youth Hall is no longer centered around Czech Bouncing, for the summer of ’36. Instead, for some quirky reason, Cowboy Line Dancing appeals to everyone for a few weeks or months during this period. Otherwise everything else remains relatively unchanged.Please answer this question to the best of your ability to assist us. I’m a big believer in grassroots resourcefulness, and its power in creating discerning situations that test people’s willingness and ability to make their own way.It seems to me that with the cities under such stresses, people would flock in large numbers to remote areas like Winnipeg (sorry guys) or some other region with plenty of clean water, air and soil. Why is this such a nelected fix? I would also imagine that the network of Intentional Communities (communes?) that took root over the years, would provide infrastructural support to a nation needing to find its “FOXFIRE” roots.If I was transposed to the 1920’s or 30’s, you would have a hard time keeping me off the streets, out of public places, shops, concert halls, etc. just trying to take it all in. Ditto with just about any other time and place.Which reminds me of an old story about the TT who saw a sign outside a restaurant that said “Breakfast served any time”. He eventually settled on eggs benedict during the Renaissance.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-16-2001 11:35 AM
It is interesting to note that the photos posted on that other site were posted by an “anonomyous time traveler” some time back. It fits the exact description John has give us of his machine. Therefore, based on his discription alone, I would say he is the one that posted the pictures. If he didn’t post them, then he is using them for the basis of his story.Regardless of the two suppositions above, the device appears to be “authentic” to me. I have some experts looking at the manual and the pictures as well – for obvious reasons, I won’t tell you who because they aren’t aware of this discussion and I don’t intend to tell them about it.I am extremely familiar with military spec equipment in many forms, more specifically communications systems of various types. I have never seen this particular item (in my time… ) nor anything vaguely resembling it. HOWEVER, it does have the look and feel of a piece of gear produced by a large corporation for the military.John – in looking closely at this device, I see there is a hand control unit – with some sort of screen on it. I assume this is the computer interface through which the device is programmed (or time settings are made). Is that an accurate assumption? What does the display show you (for instance, does it simply show things like time/date calculations, or radiation [probably wrong word] of the fields from the device?)Also, there are 16 apparent buttons. I have to assume further that these are multifunction keys (that is you press one for an alt/control function and other buttons have names or labels and perhaps even numerical meanings). Is that also accurate?thanks
Posted by Doug Beauchamp on 02-16-2001 05:38 PM
At the very beginning of this thread, I was very skeptical. Who wouldn’t be on a topic like this? However, I find myself believing it even more with each page.
What I find strange is why so many people don’t believe.
I think we’ve established that a majority of us do believe time travel a possibility. Most of us also believe that the human race does indeed learn how to travel to time sometime in the future.
If we believe this, then why do we find it so hard to believe that there are people from the future among us?
If John is not a time traveler, then he’s a **** good lier. There are minor flaws in his stories, but I think there are more strengths than flaws. Maybe I just believe his story because I want to (selective belief).As for the issue of security, I think Rick covered it all.
I don’t think the government would be as open-minded to this topic as some of us. Unless John proved he was a time traveler, I don’t think anyone will be using his IP to track him.
Which is a reason I don’t think John can be proving to us that he is indeed a TT. (Maybe that’s one of the lessons in TT training.) Unless there is a branch of the FBI similar to the X-Files, I doubt anyone will be knocking on Johns door anytime soon.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-16-2001 08:48 PM
So John, when do you plan on answering my questions?Is there a problem in answering?Please let me know…. I await you.-Javier C.Sysop: We do not provide links to other boards, Sorry. Peace, Mary[Edited by Mary Rowland on 02-16-2001 at 09:19 PM]
Posted by Tim Utterback on 02-16-2001 10:17 PM
WinkHey John. If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance. Then baffle them with BS!!!
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-17-2001 12:10 AM
Man, that’s the second time someones edited out my posts. But that’s not important, what is, is your answers John.I’m still waiting. So far it’s been 48 hours. What’s wrong? Are you unable to answer?
Posted by Roy Meserve on 02-17-2001 11:13 AM
Hello,Thanks for your reply. Yes, unfortunately Hawai’i is quite tied to the fate of the mainland US in major ways. Efforts at some amicable sovereignty are halting or stillborn.Just wanted to recommend a book I think might tell you volumes about present macro socio-economic conditions that lay the foundation for the evolving political divisions you state lead to a civil war in the US in the near future.The book is “When Corporations Rule the World” by John C. Korten.While certainly not the only important work or view of this present paradigm, behind the ‘sturm und drang’ of partisan noise and distraction, this well-written and researched book by a dedicated veteran of more than 30 years abroad in various aid and developmental programs aimed at Third world areas, squarely focuses on the escalating conglomeration of power and money increasingly in the hands of the few and the resulting loss of control over individual and community autonomy. Now, in the twilight of the 21st century, this locus of capital, political influence and media control is taking on a life of its own, out of the control of even those at the top of the command hierarchy, with concomitant social decline, rampant environmental degradation, and of course the threat of war as a means both of deflection of attention on the real problem, and further dividing and conquering to consolidate ever more power. No black hats and white hats, per se, but more the result of unthinking acceptance of a certain economic model at the root.This is why I feel there is a kind of inevitability to some sort of wrenching change, whether or not it follows ‘your’ probable outcome. Another older book by a similar ‘dissociated’ entity that might interest you is “The Nature of Personal Reality” by Jane Roberts (circa 1979-80). From a ghost no less! Both can be found at the public library, but are worth perusal. Submitted humbly in the spirit of apocalypse or (Greek)- ‘unveiling’….regards,Roy
Posted by Andrew Hubbard on 02-17-2001 08:40 PM
1) would you be able to internationally travel by traveling to the year 2001, fly a plane to the desired destination, and then go to the future from there?2) If each world line is separate from the others, then wouldn’t the consequences of your actions now have no effect on your original world-line? If this is the case, why won’t you tell us things that will give us knowledge or let us avoid death? My only guess is that you are not a time traveler, and don’t want to say anything that could make a gullible person do something stupid.3) how can I leave a message for myself in the future if the things i do in this world-line do not effect the others?
Posted by Michael E. Hendrickson on 02-18-2001 08:03 AM
The falsity of your claims is revealed in your predicted scenario for our country in the years 2004-2012,i.e., a virtual collapse of our constitutional system into a warring divide between the cities and the countrysides, with a farmer general leading the latter to victory in 2012, presumably, after a horrendous, internecine struggle.
I believe in fact this describes a plot in one or more science fiction novels written in the past 50 years.
This scenario could plausibly describe events which, perhaps, might occur 100 years from now, or even much further in the future, but most certainly not commencing a mere three years from now. A breakdown of this magnitude would’ve had to have been preceded by many more fracturing events other than Ruby Ridge, Waco,the Oklahoma bombing,etc., over a much longer period of time in order to culminate in your predicted scenario.
Given what we know about our society today with its very stable system of government(however else you may wish to describe it), your prediction of its pending disintegration, beginning in three short years, is utterly improbable, if not impossible. Hmm., I’m, trying to think, was it Asimov or Kurt Vonnegut Jr. who originally authored this scenario? MH
P.S. The idea of a farmer general leaving his fields to lead his country’s troops to victory is an old one going back, at least, to Roman times. Lucius Quintus Cincinnatus, I believe, was the gentleman’s name, from the 5th Century B.C. Roman Republic.[Edited by Michael E. Hendrickson on 02-18-2001 at 08:28 AM]
Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-18-2001 11:06 AM
The recent film “Gladiator” featured Maximus a farmer general who defeated a “fictionalized” Commodus.I guess if you asked Joseph Campbell there are only a few stories and all literature is the re-telling of the same few stories in different settings.Boy saves girlBoy saves the nationGirl dies boy avengesBoy gets girl usually another boy loses girl.Underdog defeats the champ. David and Goliath, farmer generalGood boy goes badbad boy goes goodand a few more.there are a few that’s all then we just enhance the content to fit our cultural needs.Peace
Posted by Randy Empey on 02-18-2001 11:36 AM
Mr. Vega and Mr. Hendrickson:The wonderful ability for the human mind to group things by similarities, generalize, and vaguely remember stories heard in the past exists.But it is not conclusive proof of the falsity of anybodies claims.I, as an attempted-author (pretty similar to being an attempted-murderer), have ran into the ‘universal hero myth’ dillema face to face, in mental combat to the death . . . and have yet to arrise victorious . . . but it does not mean I have no good stories to tell, nor that they are unoriginal. And it certainly doesn’t mean that any story I may come up with is most definetly not true . . .I am fairly certain that proving anything is impossible. (By this I mean proving ABSOLUTELY . . . within certain frameworks, like mathematics, things can be proven . . . but in general? I think not. In what we call ‘reality’? I also think not. Life would be too simple.)If this is true, and I think it is, it also follows that it is impossible to disprove anything — although the two are often different problems.So the ongoing ‘discussion’ about the veracity of this TT’s claims is largely in vain. Good works may yet come from it, but I am sure there are better ways to spend this thread. John has already suggested this, it seems to me, and I believe it is everybody’s best interest to recognize that we have never been in the realm of absolutes and that the main goal here is the intelligent exchange of ideas, observations, insights and ‘feelings’.Just because a plot appears often in the worlds portrayed in science fiction doesn’t preclude them from being what you seem to consider science fact.Spacecraft are a prime example of this.Timecraft ARE ALSO!The mind is the ultimate vessel for any kind of exploration . . . lets please direct our miranderings a little more effectively even on this micro level, . . . if only to please my aesthetic sense!I’m sure we will all be a lot happier and the fruits will then be better.
Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-18-2001 02:56 PM
CoolHi all:Randy, although I remain to be convinced as to the nature of John or his story. I have never said he was a fake or a fraud, or a liar, actually, I expressed frustration at the seemingly all important “is he or isn’t he” debate.I propose that “what John is” is irrelevant to this conversation. What is relevant is the ideas, and very good technical information being discussed here. I can tell you that I’m sure that some of the posters know more about time travel and it’s why’s and why nots, than they did prior to coming here.The real interesting conversation has been about the culture he describes, and the way they approach life.My comment regarding story lines is accurate. It does not however, detract from any literary work. It also had no connection to John Titor, I was actually disagreeing with the previous poster that stated that the Farmer General metaphor somehow was indicative of deception on Johns part, or a weak link in his story. The Farmer General is nothing new. History is replete with Farmer Generals.I was pointing out to him the “preponderance” of similarity that exists in the area of “plot development”. As an author you must have at times asked yourself if the scene you were creating did not sound too much like “this”, or “that”.Anyway, I just wanted to clarify the point.Oh one more thing.You sayThe mind is the ultimate vessel for any kind of exploration . . . lets please direct our miranderings a little more effectively even on this micro level, . . . if only to please my aesthetic sense!Please excuse me if I misunderstood but neither I nor anyone else here is going direct their meanderings in any direction to please “your” sense of Aesthetics.
As soon as you become a moderator here you can dictate whatever you want. Remember that whatever you post will most likely get a response.By the way “effective meandering” is a poor choice of metaphor, you see it’s a borderline oximoron.Peace[Edited by Ernie Vega on 02-18-2001 at 03:24 PM]
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-18-2001 11:04 PM
SmileOK John, I know your playing this Machiavelli role again, of going silent and hiding. But just wanted to let you know, that when you do return, answer my questions first. I asked first. So don’t avoid answering my questions. Got that ?-Javier C.
Posted by Lola Montez on 02-19-2001 12:23 AM
Hello,To John Titor:
I have found this thread very interesting.
How far from what size city is it the safest to be?
You suggest bicycle. What about horseback?
Should we be stockpiling guns?
What kind of people will be the ones least trustworthy?
Is the conflict racial in any way?
Does the civil war start in such a way that with this foreknowledge those willing will have time to remove themselves to safer locations?
Will you readily be able to identify the enemy?
Does living near a river with a distillation unit take care of water problems?
How are the five people within the 100 miles contacted?
Do communications stay intact?
I have 86 acres on a river in Central California about 125 miles north of LA. I have geese, turkeys, horses, chickens, milk cows, good pasture, a well run by electricity, and a garden. I also have two teenage sons who are gun nuts. Plenty of rifles, semi-automatic and otherwise. Any comment on our chances or suggestions? My oldest son, 19, is joining the army for 3 years. Will he be asked to kill his countrymen?
I look forward to hearing from you.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 02-19-2001 01:22 AM
John,Sometime earlier you wrote that there are no paradoxes in time travel. I have a question regarding a paradox that I can’t seem to overcome. Maybe you can help.People who posit theories of time travel generally write in terms of time travel in years. My problem deals with very short trips – the kind that early experimenters would most likely attempt (to avoid divergence problems if nothing else).In this experiment the traveler only goes 30 seconds into the past to appear in his lab. It seems that 30 seconds before his experiment was to begin he saw himself apppear in the lab. There would now be two travellers and two time machines. It doesn’t appear that it ends that simply as the “second” time traveller says that he saw a duplicate self appear in the lab thirty seconds before he started the trip. It would appear that its a time loop and an infinite number of duplicates see a duplicate self appear in the lab thirty seconds prior to the start of the trip.Your time machine weighs 500 lbs and an average man weighs about 180 lbs. So lets say that that the mass is about 700 lbs per traveller. What is the mass of the duplicates and where did the mass come from? What is the result of the duplicates arriving ~simultaneously at the ~same place and time? How long will it take for the loop to decay? Will it decay? Is it a loop? What happens if the experimenter, upon seeing his duplicate, decides not to continue the experiment?
Posted by Randy Empey on 02-19-2001 07:52 AM
Mr. Vega, I excuse you as you ask. Complete understanding between separate entities in this world is likely an impossibility. I claim no such moderatorship — I was just attempting to appeal to everybody's sense of ‘proper actions during mutually-benificial social interactions’ (I hate it when I can’t find the right, single word to say what I want to say . . .) . . . attempting to phrase it in a way that hasn’t already been said here . . . obviously, at least in your case, it back fired. I still feel its a good sentiment.“Effective meandering” appealed to me for exact reason which seems to make you feel it was a poor metaphor. It has the meaning I intend, as I know the language.———John T:Since you are stockpiling examples of written word from this time, whether to bring back to the future or for sources in your own written endeavours, I suggest you make this a two way street — you take our words, so lets have some more of yours.Do you remember any poetry or verse from after 2001 in your past?Is there an active market on new books in your time, or has that infranstructure not rebuilt it self? Are most the books available old or new?Out of curiosity, as a rough judge of character, have you read the works of J.R.R. Tolkien? And did you enjoy them.Actually, this all boils down to the question the last few posters have been getting at — R U THERE?All –Even if John never posts again, this thread would still seem to be useful . . . there is enough conflict here to make it good drama.I think time-travel is possible . . . others among us think its impossible . . . there are other threads where battles in this war are fought . . . but this particular theatre is far from over.
Posted by John Titor on 02-19-2001 11:03 AM
CHAD:
((1. You have claimed several times that you will not participate in assisting anyone to get out of ‘death by probability’. Yet any number of the things that you have said could have already caused an individual to do or not do something that will now result in them either dying, or escaping death an otherwise fated death.))
It would help if you could give an example. If you are referring to the conflict and war in your future, I’m not sure I’m specific enough to help any individuals avoid anything. Suggesting there is a war coming is a bit different than saying avoid Washington DC at 3:45 AM on March 12, 2015.
((There is no way for you to know if there is no future world leader reading this and believing.))
Are you sure about that? Besides, I think you can have just as much impact as any “future leader”.
((2. You claim that you have no interest in proving to us that you are a time-traveler. To hear you take such a stance is laughable. Look at what a show you have put on here. Instead you tell us that you only wish us to make us aware of time-travel as a possiblity (see #1 again), or that you only wish to observe us and speak of cultural and religious issues, something interesting to a historian.))
I submit there is no way for me to prove anything on the internet, therefore it makes no sense to desire it. What exactly do you think I could do to prove it to anyone? I am confused by your term “the show”. Do you feel my only goal here is to entertain?
((You came and posted on this site with one intention that was clear as of your first post: to make us believe that you are a time-traveller. You have continued this thread for that purpose alone, and I find everything you have done supports this.))
Again, I am unable to make you do anything nor would I want that.
((As far as wishing to speak of issues regarding our humanity, or culture, it is quite clear that this is not your intention (contrary to what you insist). If you truly wished to do this your first line would not have been, ‘I am a time-traveller’. If you truly wished to do this you would not have continued this thread once you realized that line would not serve your claimed goals.))
I learn a great deal about your culture from the words you write (like right now). What do you think my goals are?
((The entirety of this thread has been: you developing your story.))
I’m not sure I understand this. How would “my story” differ it was “developed”?
((I find it very difficult to believe that a software tweak (hence ‘software engineers’, -software-) done to a 1975 machine could cause it to do this translation more effectively or more portably than something around even today.))
Ahhh…something we have in common. Yes, I felt that way too. However, my job was to go and get it and not debate why they wanted it. I am not a computer expert.
((I find it almost impossible to believe that a tweak done by a ‘software engineer’ in 1975 could provide for you something that you could find at no other place between now and ‘your time’, and certainly without having to make a stop-over in our time to get back that far.))
A great deal of the computer infrastructure you depend on is based on very old systems and code. One of the reasons I was sent to 1975 was because of the person I met there, not the technology.
((Furthermore, I find the notion that one of a limited number of time-machines would be used in this manner to be nothing short of nonsensical. There are more effective ways to accomplish what you claim in this regard.))
Perhaps you would share them with me. You might be right and I could make your suggestions when I return.
((4. I have, and continue to believe Dr. Hawking’s view in regards to the possibility of time travel if indeed the model of time is what you have suggested, that all possibilities occur in different time-lines, in different universes is the way that time truly is. For this reason alone I cannot accept you. It is entirely logical, and I have seen no good case to counter it.))
I’m not sure I understand what you mean. If you believe in Multiple World Theory, Hawking was not the one who first thought of that. If you do, then I must be real if all possibilities exist. As I recall, Hawking felt that it was possible to build a machine but some sort of vacuum fluctuations would destroy it right before you tried to use it.
((You claim that you have no desire to prove your story to us, yet everything you have done from the moment you first posted here has flown in the face of that.))
I’m not sure that’s true. In fact, I’ve tried to point out on at least two occasions that anything I do (at the request of someone else) to support my claims can be found someplace else on your worldline right now.
((What is more, you bring with you the claim that you will tell us no names, no locations, or any specifics as a result of your supposed ethics. If those were indeed the ethics you were committed to and reasoned with, you would not be here now.))
I am curious about this also. Do you think I should not interact with you for your safety or mine?
((I visit with a pink unicorn in the garden behind my house at night and it talks to me. I would show it to you but it only comes out when I am alone.))
For some reason, I believe you.RYAN:
((Time travel may be possible, but if you were to time travel, you would NOT land on Earth. You would land in a vacuum of space. You have to take into account that the universe is expanding, the Earth, the solar system and the galaxy are all moving. If you truely did travel back through time, you’d materialize in 1970 where the Earth WILL be in 2036, which is NOT Earth.. it’s space.))
Yes, this is a problem.
It was solved by taking a “snapshot” of the local gravity around the unit before leaving a world-line and incorporating it into the sinusoid during travel.
The short answer is, you “stick” to the earth but this is only a useful explanation to understand it and it’s not practical. Since the computer system is using a virtual reference, the calculations become flawed. Thus:
[1] Based on the accuracy and timing of the “snapshots” the distortion units are limited to how long they can travel before becoming unstable.
[2] We must leave and arrive in areas we have prior or future knowledge of in order to avoid massive objects (buildings, water, etc…)
[3] The unit has a fail-safe system during travel that drops out in case of a unit shutdown or radical departure in gravity readings.
((Answer this factoid, John, and I will believe you until the ends of the Earth.))
Again, you should not offer this to anyone for any reason.RICK:
((If John wants a way to prove anything – which from his previous posts he has stated he DOESN’T WANT TO DO – then I am more than willing to look over his proofs. However – just because I were to look something over gives no more meaning to the rest of you than it would if one of you looked his stuff over, believed it then told ME.))
Exactly!MEL:
((How would someone that came here with no money all of the sudden have plenty of money now? You could have brought the lowest denomination coin of your time with a mint mark anywhere after 2001 and probably convinced almost all of us. At least some people. It would be hard to fake.))
The reason I don’t have 2036 money is because it takes up weight, space and can be faked and I can’t use it for anything. What type of expenses do you think a time traveler would have that I would need so much money for?SIMON:
((1) Simply inscribe your knowledge of any large scale events (disasters, discoveries, etc etc) over the next six months (there should be at least one memorable example) into a text file.
(2) Encrypt said text file.
(3) Give text file to a custodian. I sure Art Bell would volunteer, he’s very interested in time travel.
(4) In six months time give Art the encryption key and he can reveal what you said.))
The only problem is, now you have to trust the person who brings the information forward.RANDY:I’m not sure you really wanted me to answer those questions. If you could be more specific I would enjoy the conversation. Do you believe that faith alone will get you to God? Do you believe in an organized force of evil that works against men’s souls?
13 coming…
Posted by Randy Empey on 02-19-2001 01:00 PM
Thumbs upJohn T —I would like you to answer any of the questions which you feel you can answer. I would not ask were I not curious. You, of course, are allowed to censor yourself and direct the conversation by what you choose to respond to and say.It may interest you to read some of the other threads on this bbs, the ones about other topics, like religion . . . and post in them.But I think I can provide a brief response to your questions to promote further conversation here.I believe that faith AND good works will get one to God. There are other things, but they can arguably be included under the headings of ‘faith’ and ‘good works’.I believe there is an organized force of evil that works against God’s plan for men’s souls. Its all part of the plan.Your next question may be “Why do you believe that?” . . .My answer is two part:[1] I was born into a family where such beliefs run strong. It feels right to believe what my loved ones believe.[2] My studies since my childhood have done nothing but confirm that such beliefs are at least well founded, if not indicated by the way I understand that ‘things’ work in this reality. By this I allude to many different avenues of the pursuit of knowledge. Recently, the most convincing has been things I’ve learned in my study of physics, of all things . . .Some scientist say science has made them atheists . . . I say science, as I understand it, has had the opposite effect on many others.I like to think, and the more I think, the more I become convinced that my beliefs are accurate enough for my purposes.But, they are beliefs, and I could not prove them to you.Another reason why I am stubborn in some of these beliefs, the religious ones and other parts of my philosophy is because it feels right — almost as if by intuition or subconscious communications from ‘the other side’.I don’t think the possibility of TT disagrees in any way with any of the elements of my philosophy.I think many reading this thread would like you to expound on the elements of your philosophy, John.I vaguely remember you mentioned being religious . . . am I remembering straight? (I’ll look over the past posts of course, but reiteration doesn’t hurt.) How would you answer your own questions?Could you talk a bit more on how the ‘many worlds’ view point introduced by the advent of the TT tech. developed in your society affects the religious views of both the masses and the thinkers?I think that it works with the way I understand things — Falling under the ‘many flocks’ argument, if nothing else.You mention gathering written material here . . . so I assume you do a lot of reading — before this trip, in your spare time, did you read much fiction? If so, what genre? Any books from this century?What brought you to this bbs in the first place?And here is another character-o-meter question I’d like you to answer: Have you seen George Lucas’s Star Wars Trilogy (bonus points for any of the prequels or sequels)?
Posted by Joe Norris on 02-19-2001 01:12 PM
Question1: What happens to Bill Clinton between now and 20362: What happens to Bill Gates between now and 2036I am sure these are both headline events that will be talked about for several years to come.
Posted by John Titor on 02-19-2001 01:14 PM
RANDY:
((I believe that faith AND good works will get one to God. There are other things, but they can arguably be included under the headings of ‘faith’ and ‘good works’.
I believe there is an organized force of evil that works against God’s plan for men’s souls. It’s all part of the plan. Your next question may be “Why do you believe that?” ))
Please don’t think me so cynical. I would never insult or degrade someone’s religious views. My next questions would be “what about knowledge?” I am a firm believer that faith (and good works) is not enough to get to God. There is a mystery we must solve first.
((I vaguely remember you mentioned being religious . . . am I remembering straight? (I’ll look over the past posts of course, but reiteration doesn’t hurt.) How would you answer your own questions?))
Yes, I believe in organized evil. It would sure be easier to carry out an “evil” plan if no one beloved you existed. Just curious, can anyone tell me what “Satan” really means?
Had to answer those quickly. I have nothing but open-mindedness for religious conversation and I look forward to more. I’ll get to the other questions soon.
Thanks.
Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-19-2001 02:45 PM
WinkHi John:Best I could find is from the Hebrew Ha-Satan, or “the Adversary.”First, let’s examine what the Bible reveals about the origin of Satan and the demons.EZEKIEL 28:12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; you were on the holy mountain of God; you walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you.
16 By the abundance of your trading [rekullatek] you became filled with violence within, and you sinned; therefore I cast you as a profane thing out of the mountain of God; and I destroyed you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the fiery stones. 17 Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor . . .” (NKJV)
REVELATION 12:3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads.
4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. . . . (NKJV)
LUKE 10:17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”
18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.” (NKJV)
From the preceding Scriptures, we can learn several things about Satan and the fallen angels. In the beginning, this “anointed cherub” was created as a wise, beautiful, and powerful angel. He apparently was one of the two cherubs who cover the mercy seat (God’s throne) with their wings (see Heb. 8:5; 9:5, 23-24; Exo. 25:20; 37:9; I Kin. 6:19-28; 8:6-7; I Chr. 28:18; II Chr.3:10-13; 5:7-8). However, because of pride in his beauty, this cherub’s wisdom was corrupted.Satan is symbolically called the “king of Tyre” (Eze. 28:12). The coastal city-state of Tyre was one of the world’s greatest traders during Israel’s monarch period. Isaiah calls Tyre “the bestower of crowns, whose merchants were princes, whose traders were the honored of the earth” (Isa. 23:8).Although the Scriptures don’t define the trade Satan was engaged in, it clearly tells us that because of the abundance of his trade, he sinned. Possibly Satan implemented a system of competition rather than cooperation, which eventually filled him with violence, causing his iniquity.The word rendered “trading” in the NKJV translation of Ezekiel 28:16 is a form of the Hebrew noun rekulla, which means “traffic” or “merchandise.” This particular form of rekulla is only found five times, all in Ezekiel (Eze. 26:12; 27:20, 23; 28:16, 18).However, rekulla is derived from the root word rakal. It’s relevant to note that a closely-related derivative, rakil, means “slanderer.” It’s used in this context six times (Lev. 19:16; Jer. 6:28; 9:4; Eze. 22:9; Pro. 11:13; 20:19).
The account of Satan in Ezekiel 28 could well involve aspects of both these meanings. In the New Testament, this fallen angel is often called the “devil,” or the diabolos in the Greek (Matt. 4:1, 5, 8, 11; 13:39; 25:41; Luke 4:2, 3, 6, 13; 8:12; John 8:44; 13:2; Acts 10:38; 13:10; Eph. 4:27; 6:11; I Tim. 3:6, 7; II Tim. 2:26; Heb. 2:14; Jam. 4:27; I Pet. 5:8; I John 3:8, 10; Jude 9; Rev. 2:10; 12:9, 12; 20:2, 10). Not coincidentally, the literal meaning of diabolos and its variations is “slanderer.”It’s possible that through his “slander” and “gossip,” Satan turned one-third of the angelic host against God. We know that Satan tried this approach in the Garden of Eden, when he misrepresented God’s motives to Eve (Gen. 3:1-5). The angelic forces loyal to God eventually had to cast this “anointed cherub,” along with his allies, out of heaven. From that point forward he became known in Hebrew as Ha-Satan, or “the Adversary.”There is more e-mail me if anyone wants the restPeace
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-19-2001 03:25 PM
SmileI’m still waiting for you to respond to my questions TT_0. After all, I did put HJYABJ 100 at the end of my post.-Javier C.P.S. Now it’s no longer an excuse of not being able to log on. We await your respond.
Posted by Simon Wiggins on 02-19-2001 03:32 PM
>>The only problem is, now you have to trust the person who brings the information forward.Why if I had a glove sir !!!Of course you could trust Art to fess up if you were right!You must be from a very dystopian future to be so cynical
Posted by Nikki Colwill on 02-19-2001 04:57 PM
I just gotta say this is some of the best reading entertainment I have had in a LONG time!!!
Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-19-2001 06:10 PM
SmileHi everybody. wow! this is a very interesting forum.for any body wanting to see what a IBM 5100 portable computer looks like they can see one here:you will have to type it in I guess direct links are not allowed. ((http://mercury.sfsu.edu/~hl/c.IBM.5100.html))
I am hoping this shows up ok and does not offend the moderators.It is on the other board but I was not sure if the link to the other board was still on here.Anyway it looks like a very interesting piece of machinery.It will give you a better idea on the machine John is talking about that he went back to 1975 to get. how big it is and what it looks like.sincerely,pamela
Posted by Lola Montez on 02-19-2001 07:21 PM
To John,I hope you will get to some of my previous questions, in the meantime I have more.Why are orphans an issue? It seems war orphans would be pretty old by now.What is your biggest or gravest environmental issue?Does distillation remove radioactivity from water?Do people still watch TV?Are there any women on your travel team? What is the status of women in your time? (This may only be able to be answered by a woman)Do they hold office? Work outside the home? Get equal pay? Are they safe on the streets at night?
What do women wear for the most part?Are the Amish alive and well?What is the birth rate?Is there an unusual rate of birth defects and if so what kind?Maybe you should be taking back healthy sperm and eggs.You said that your culture was centered around the Universities. Weren’t they wiped out in the war? They are in cities after all.Do you use cell phones? Eat allot of red meat? Drive cars?Are airlines in operation? Internationally?Are people pressured (subtle or otherwise) to adhere to a Christian doctrine?Do police make drug busts? Are there many jails? What kind of criminals are in them?What kind of public punishment is there? Sounds like New England during religious persecution and intolerance.Are there Wholistic healers? Herbal medicines? Alternative life styles?Is there personal freedom?Is there an IRS and a need to keep a lot of receipts and paperwork around to justify yourself?Is the same type of currency used? Is ours today good in say 2010 or 2020?Other than time travel how do most people get around the country? Do people tend to travel much?Are people suspicious of strangers or all you one big happy family now?How do most people die during the war? Radiation, starvation? bullet wounds?I have more but I better quit to see if you will get to these and don’t forget my first posting, please.Thanks,lola
Posted by John Titor on 02-19-2001 07:25 PM
ERNIE:
((ARTIFICIAL MICROSINGULARITY = LOCALIZED KERR FIELD
Through trial and error, and although they are quite heavy, hot and capable of putting out a great deal of energy (300 – 500 megawatts), it’s discovered that these microsingularities can be electrified and captured. It is also interesting to note at this point that electrified singularities also have two event horizons. By spinning these various microsingularities, a localized Kerr field is created.
It looks like a prediction. Is it.))
If you can take that paragraph and find a way to make a dollar from it than more power to you.BLONNIE:
((i would first like to state that i for one have never said you’re an idiot – i said you are aggravating. which is not really a personal problem w/yourself it is just how i perceive you to be. an adjective – not a noun.))
Point taken. I apologize.
((so that’s what this is all about? you come here & want us to “help” you by asking questions.. so you can figure out how -we- percieve things & why we think the way we do but you do not recipricate the efforts. you only discuss things that you care about or that -you- think are important or that -you- think you will “gain” something from. seems rather -one-sided- to me.))
I was hoping it wouldn’t be so confrontational. I don’t see how words can harm either one of us.
((so you return home w/a better understanding while we’re left here w/the same questions we had before? it doesn’t seem very beneficial to -us-..just to -you- (atleast from your statements)).
You must believe that we both have interesting things to say to each other. Isn’t that worth it all by itself?JAVIER:
((What state do you live in now in 2001?))
I am in Florida.
((Is John Titor your real name?))
Yes, John Titor is a real name.
((What do you look like? Post a picture of your self. ))
No.
((What is your secret agenda?))
If I tell you, it would just be an agenda, which I’m sure, is much less interesting.
((Is this dialogue between people in these posts part of your secret agenda?))
If I had a secret agenda, talking to people would not be part of it.
((Does your younger self realize what you are?))
Yes, he is aware that I exist but he doesn’t know who I am.
((Are you married?))
No but I did have a chance to convince myself otherwise.
((What rank were you in the Army?))
It is the equivalent of Major.
((Where did you go to BCT?))
I wasn’t fortunate enough to go to basic. We were fighting a war at the time.
((What company were you with, and what year did you graduate from BCT?))
The organization of the fighting unit I was in fell under the militia. We fought against the organized army. [Highlighted by metallicman.]
((You have any fears? If so, what are they?))
I fear people who want others to take action based on their own emotions and irrational fears.[Highlighted by metallicman.]
((What are the rules for fraternizing with people who aren’t from your time; do you make friends easily here in 2001?))
Have common sense and get your job done. Yes, I have friends.
((What would the DOD do to you if they found you out?))
I’m sure I would end up in one of their nice little padded cells while they poked at my machine with a screwdriver. What do you think they would do?
((What would you do if someone attempted to investigate you? Hundreds of people go through these forums a day I’m sure. Some of which can be government. Aren’t you at all worried that it’s only a matter of time before you are found out?))
I don’t worry about that very much. No one believes me anyway. Right?
((And you said; “I very much want to discuss our cultures but please help me understand how you won’t be able to change something I tell you happened on my worldine.” ))
Suppose I told you the space shuttle would have a problem landing at Kennedy tomorrow because something goes wrong with the runway. If someone with the authority to do so hears that and makes the decision to land at Edwards…bingo, your future has changed from my past.
((I appreciate you answering these questions for me John, and thank you for calling me your friend.))
I’d really like to believe thatRICK:
((I want you to understand something – since you’re using our discussions to make a determination of our thinking for when you go back.))
I am not qualified to judge you. I merely said it would be a subject of discussion when I return.
((However, rest assured, if I went to the security office and said, “I have access to a time traveler” I’d get laughed at. I’d have to get in touch with the “right people” to “report” the incident, and even then the skeptics would over rule the “believers”.))
If that were not the case, I would not be posting at all.
((The US government… Russian or any other, would be in the same boat. They would, if they could believe it, GRAB and hold time travelers – checking the veracity of their stories and preventing them from having any interaction with anyone.))
Yes, that’s what I think too. The irony is, I’m not sure the machine will really do anything for them and all I can give them is stock quotes and sports news. (Just a little humor.)
((So – John, my comments about being fraudulent – please don’t take them seriously and please do not think I have anything against you personally, nor wish to discredit you. I only want the honest truth.))
I don’t. Truth is something we all want. Like opportunity, its something you have to be ready for to recognize it.
((John, what would it take to get you to stick around after spring and leave during the next window of opportunity?))
My parents are much better at cards than I am. I fear they may not let me leave in such debt. If I had all the time I needed, I would spend much more time downloading and archiving.[Perhaps his true purpose is fundamentally to collect data off the internet. Highlighted by metallicman.]
((I fear that another month or 2 may not be enough time to get as much said and discussed as I would like to have.))
I will continue to answer the posts as long as I can.
((In your “world time” have things like “Saquatch” , “Loch Ness monster”, and other reported unusual animals been seen, or captured or explained away. ))
We have our swamp monsters too. In fact, I think it’s interesting that we all respond to the unknown the same way regardless of our cultural experiences.
((Is remote viewing used to gather military intelligence?))
I am only aware of it from this world-line. I don’t know otherwise.
((Are psychics still common? are they used by the government?))
Yes, psychics exist but I don’t have any knowledge of their use by the military.
((Is there a Police Dept as we know it. Have any of your top leaders or politicians been jailed or impeached?))
Yes, we have police but they are organized in smaller groups. Yes, we still have political and religious leaders who find it difficult to obey the law. I would submit to you that the law is only as good as the people’s willingness to apply it evenly and swiftly.[Highlighted by metallicman.]
((John, any chance of getting a better set of photos with more of the manual?. ))
Yes, I am pondering posting more of the manual. I am also considering having my departure videotaped and yes, it will be free. My only concern is how it might affect the “me” on this worldline.
((John please respond to my question as to “the prediction” did I jump the Gun? (get ahead of myself).)
I’ll have to go back and take a second look. Post again and remind me.
((One final question? Is there a Global Superpower state and what nation is it.))
Being a superpower only makes you a target. There is an uneasy balance in the world now that everyone “probably” has nukes, chems or bios. We don’t just bomb people for the hell of it anymore. Military power is based on the number of autonomous fighting men who are actually willing to fight.CRAIG:
((I guess you are held accountable, in some way, for changes that occur in your time period..))
You’re pretty much correct about your statement but actually, nothing I do here will affect my home. I hold myself accountable for any damage I do.
((It seems to me that with the cities under such stresses, people would flock in large numbers to remote areas like Winnipeg (sorry guys) or some other region with plenty of clean water, air and soil. Why is this such a nelected fix? I would also imagine that the network of Intentional Communities (communes?) that took root over the years, would provide infrastructural support to a nation needing to find its “FOXFIRE” roots.))
In my opinion, people “now” take clean water, electricity and their feeling of safety for granted. If they leave the city in search of fresh water they first have to make the realization that fresh water is a problem. It’s much easier to demand someone else owes you fresh water than it is to leave the lifestyle that made it bad in the first place.[Highlighted by metallicman.]
((If I was transposed to the 1920’s or 30’s, you would have a hard time keeping me off the streets, out of public places, shops, concert halls, etc. just trying to take it all in. Ditto with just about any other time and place.))
I agree with you. The first time I walked into a “superstore” I cried. I’d never seen so much excess in one place at one time.RICK:
((It is interesting to note that the photos posted on that other site were posted by an “anonomyous time traveler” some time back. It fits the exact description John has give us of his machine. Therefore, based on his discription alone, I would say he is the one that posted the pictures. If he didn’t post them, then he is using them for the basis of his story.))
Those are mine. They were posted by another person who I’m sure is reading this also and would be happy to confirm that.
((John – in looking closely at this device, I see there is a hand control unit – with some sort of screen on it. I assume this is the computer interface through which the device is programmed (or time settings are made). Is that an accurate assumption? What does the display show you (for instance, does it simply show things like time/date calculations, or radiation [probably wrong word] of the fields from the device?))
Yes, that is a remote unit. The unit itself gets hot and “unapproachable” during long travel and you’re usually subjected to about 2 G’s. It gets a little difficult to move around and the hand held unit sits next to you. The unit displays many things but time in transit, time to destination, VGL variance and unit temperature are the most common during travel.[Highlighted by metallicman.]
((Also, there are 16 apparent buttons. I have to assume further that these are multifunction keys (that is you press one for an alt/control function and other buttons have names or labels and perhaps even numerical meanings). Is that also accurate?))
Yes, the menus are screen driven. [Highlighted by metallicman.]
Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-19-2001 07:53 PM
SmileConfirming for John:“”””RICK:((It is interesting to note that the photos posted on that other site were posted by an “anonymous time traveler” some time back. It fits the exact description John has give us of his machine. Therefore, based on his description alone, I would say he is the one that posted the pictures. If he didn’t post them, then he is using them for the basis of his story.))Those are mine. They were posted by another person who I’m sure is reading this also and would be happy to confirm that. “””””Yes, I will confirm the fact that John did send me the photos and I sent them to Doc ,who is also a friend of mine ,to post on his board.and I will be more than happy to post more of your manual if you want, John.
[Highlighted by metallicman.]sincerely,pamela
Posted by Lola Montez on 02-19-2001 08:13 PM
How do I find the pictures and manual pages you are speaking of?Thanks
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-19-2001 10:07 PM
John,So those responds to our questions took you 5 days to come up with? Is that the best you could do?Your not really efficient are you, when you’re asked to think on your feet?You said you went to basic training remember, on the other forum? And that’s how you got asked to be apart of this Time Travel project in the first place. Be consistent.And the question was, “Is John Titor your real name?”Your response, “Yes, John Titor is a real name.”And you didn’t even answer the other questions fully. You answered them like a politician would, and that’s by stepping around the truth without actually lying. You’re to generic. But it’s logical enough to keep your story and claims going.But for how long ?-Javier C.[Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-19-2001 at 10:13 PM]
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-19-2001 10:18 PM
John you were asked these 2 questions, and you responded to them. But I would like you to answer them again, and to please elaborate more on them. Thank you.((John, any chance of getting a better set of photos with more of the manual?. ))……..My only concern is how it might affect the “me” on this worldline.((I guess you are held accountable, in some way, for changes that occur in your time period..))……..nothing I do here will affect my home. I hold myself accountable for any damage I do.So where do you stand? Your awfully unclear when asked questions of this nature. And you always give a conflicting point of view to others you’ve had to answer. And it’s always about you.So how about we set the record straight here this time, huh ?Oh and by the way everyone. John here says no one believes him… Is that right everyone? Well if that’s true or not, he’s in FLORIDA and goes by the name of JOHN TITOR. Do your own investigation, and show him how much you believe him. I’m sure you’ll get some takers .-J.C.[Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-19-2001 at 10:46 PM]
Posted by John Titor on 02-20-2001 05:06 AM
JAVIER:
((So those responds to our questions took you 5 days to come up with? Is that the best you could do?))
How many days seem normal?
((You said you went to basic training remember, on the other forum? And that’s how you got asked to be apart of this Time Travel project in the first place. Be consistent.))
Your question referred to army basic training. My earlier comment referred to be chosen for this mission.
((…You answered them like a politician would, and that’s by stepping around the truth without actually lying. You’re to generic. But it’s logical enough to keep your story and claims going.))
I’m not sure but it sure looks like your trying to say I’m being truthful within your expectations. However, if you’re trying to hurt my feelings, comparing me to a politician will do it.
(……..My only concern is how it might affect the “me” on this world-line.)
Actually, this is a good question. If the “me” here goes on to have the same type of life and future work that I did, it may not look good on his resume that another “him” has left a videotape behind of his future mission to 1975.
((I guess you are held accountable, in some way, for changes that occur in your time period..))
((So where do you stand? Your awfully unclear when asked questions of this nature. And you always give a conflicting point of view to others you’ve had to answer. And it’s always about you.))
If you look at my concern carefully, you can see that it won’t affect me at all. It affects him.
((Oh and by the way everyone. John here says no one believes him… Is that right everyone? Well if that’s true or not, he’s in FLORIDA and goes by the name of JOHN TITOR. Do your own investigation, and show him how much you believe him. I’m sure you’ll get some takers))
I’m touched by your concern for my safety.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-20-2001 07:49 AM
Art had a fellow on the show the other day from a Time Travel organization.John, do they have anything to do with the “future” of time travel as YOU know it? The information can be found on Art Bell’s site, as well as the full audio archive of the show.If you get the chance, listen in, and check out the web site and tell us what you think of the information the doctor provided on the show.About video taping the departure… Let us assume you do this, and your agents (family?) in Florida send the tape to the Sci Fi channel, or to Art Bell… how would this affect you in the future?Theoretically speaking, I doubt that anyone could determine that you actually time traveled, but it would certainly make a very good show.When you depart this time, what is it we will see? Will the vehicle simply vanish instantly, or fade out? Will a “bubble” of time develop around the vehicle causing an darkened sphere preventing light from going through? Will anything (other biological entities) caught in the “time sphere” vanish as well – more specifically, any plants or animal life that approaches too closely to the vehicle… will they get dragged along?Rick
Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-20-2001 08:16 AM
Rick,I am not familiar with Art’s site what is the name of the program on the time travel organization audio and how do i find it? I would like to listen to it. thanks.sincerely,pamela
.........I know John is busy archiving and I am going to help him out on this one because he has already answered the last couple of questions you had. I am sure he will appreciate it. here you go Rick:Pamela:
1.What exactly would an observer see as they saw you arriving in this time? and exactly what would they see as you departed? would you just appear suddenly or slowly? would you look like a heat mirage for awhile? any light effects? or hazy misty shimmering distortion?Time travel_0-The observation of time travelers “appearing” suddenly in a world line do not happen very often. There are two cases and two points of view to consider. In the first case, the time machine does not move as it goes from one world line to another and then returns. The people watching on the original world-line would wave good bye and watch as the machine is turned on.
There would be a static discharge and the air would appear to “ripple” as if it were getting denser. Then, it would stop and the machine will have appeared to have gone no where. If the machine doesn’t move its position from world line to world line, the observer would not see it disappear at all.
In the second case, if the machine is moved, it would disappear from the viewpoint of the observer and return in a different location based on where it was moved and turned on from the destination world line.
In that case, the rippling seems to dissolve the machine and it disappears. If that happens while you are watching it leave and you expect it to return, you know it was moved or had a serious malfunction. It is actually quite dangerous to get too close to a distortion unit as it enters or leaves a world line.
It vents radiation and has a very strong localized gravity field. Personally, I worry about that a great deal.Pamela:
2.What is the dimension of the field around the car? How many feet out from the car would you say it goes?Timetravel_0-
It can be adjusted to some degree. The CG (center of gravity) is adjustable within about 4 feet and the unit is effective about 10 to 12 feet in either direction from there. The vertical distance is quite a bit shorter and is determined by sensors in the unit.Pamela:
3.approximately in inches how much of the ground is taken with you in one trip?timetravel_0-
Depending on weather or not you are going forward or backward, the footprint of the unit is different. I wouldn’t quite say it “scoops” up the ground cleanly.
It sort of vibrates it loose and takes it along for the ride.
It looks like someone raked the ground an inch or so deep with a small hand hoe or shovel. The negative ergosphere “scoops” up the front and back areas of the field. The positive ergosphere leaves a longer area near the center of mass. Its about a cubic foot of dirt spread out over six square feet or so.Pamela:
4.If they put the device in a house and turned it on what do you think would happen?Timetravel_0-
It might not be as destructive as you think. Depending on how close any object is to the field, it might not do any damage at all except for the floor.Pamela:
5.what would happen to a bird or small animal that ran across the field right when it was producing the field to travel?Timetravel_0-
It would be quickly spread out over the lateral length of the gravity field. Imagine being squished and stretched at the same time. I would imagine anything left after that would be vaporized and generate static electricity.Pamela:
6.how hot would you say the temperature gets on the outside of the car while in operation?Timetravel_0-
Very! hot. Depending on the power setting, 100 to 120 degrees is average.Pamela:
7.is the car in drive mode when the device is activated or is it totally turned off?Timetravel_0-
The car is off and the brake on.Pamela:
8.has the device been tested on ships and airplanes?Timetravel_0-
Not that I’m aware of. Its important that it remain as still as possible so the gravity sensors can get a good lock. The divergence confidence would be way off if the vehicle was moving.Pamela:
9.do you wear special uniforms when you time travel? what do they look like and does your group have a time-travel emblem or group name?Timetravel_0-
I wear a standard civilian service uniform during instruction and training. Its sort of a cross between an army uniform and overalls. We do have a quarter master who distributes clothing appropriate to where ever we are going. There is a patch. It is round and has a graphic of a Kerr singularity (sort of looks like an eye with gravity waves around it)with two spiral paths running through it’s center. One path represents the “safe” way and the other is the path to God. The bottom of the patch has my unit number along with “Temporal Recon” printed on it. However, we remove any identification and patches before we go anywhere……………………………………….Pamela:by the way can you tell me what it feels like to time travel? when you arein the process of doing it what does it feel like and what do you see andhear. you made mention that you had to get use to the fields. Do you see abright flash of light?Timetravel_0:Interesting first question. The unit has a ramp up time after the destination coordinates are fed into the computers. An audible alarm and a small light start a short countdown at which point you should be secured in a seat. The gravity field generated by the unit overtakes you very quickly.
You feel a tug toward the unit similar to rising quickly in an elevator and it continues to rise based on the power setting the unit is working under.
At 100% power, the constant pull of gravity can be as high as 2 Gs or more
depending on how close you are to the unit. There are no serious side
effects but I try to avoid eating before a flight.
No bright flash of light is seen.
Outside, the vehicle appears to accelerate as the light is bent around it. We have to wear sunglasses or close our eyes as this happens due to a short burst of ultraviolet radiation. Personally I think it looks like your driving under a rainbow.
After that, it appears to fade to black and remains totally black until the unit is turned off. We are advised to keep the windows closed as a great deal of heat builds up outside the car. The gravity field also traps a small air pocket around the car that acts as your only O2 supply unless you bring compressed air with you. This pocket will only last for a short period and a carbon sensor tells us when it’s too dangerous. The C204 unit is accurate from 50 to 60 years a jump and travels at about 10 years an hour at 100% power.
You do hear a slight hum as the unit operates and when the power changes or the unit turns off. There is a great deal of electrical crackling noise from static electricity.[Edited by Pamela Moore on 02-20-2001 at 08:54 AM]
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-20-2001 08:31 AM
http://www.artbell.com/topics.html (Link here)The information below will be listed on the site. The guy is Dr. Anderson. His site is listed below.Rick02/15/01 – Thu/FriGuest: Richard C. HoaglandBook: The Monuments of Mars: A City on the Edge of ForeverWebsite: http://www.enterprisemission.comTopic Search: Apollo MissionsGuest: Dr David AndersonWebsite: http://www.time-travel.comTopic Search: Time Travel
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-20-2001 09:57 AM
Hi Pamela. Thanks for the answers. I assume you have all this archived from another BBS or something?What’s your part in all this? How did you get the pictures of the machine? Do you know, or have you met John personally?Have you seen the time machine yourself?John – If you wouldn’t mind, could you post a few more photos of the manual. Not anything that might give away some secret or something, but something that would be interesting from a scientific point of view? ThanksRick
Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-20-2001 03:20 PM
SmileHi Rick,((I assume you have all of this archived from another BBS or something?))This piece of information originally came from an email conversation between John and I and yes, it was posted on the timetravelinstitute BB. I only submitted it here so John didnt have to explain it all over again. and it answered your question. I asked him the same question.((What’s your part in all of this?))I am not exactly sure… yet.((How did you get pictures of the machine?))John gave them to me.((Do you know, or have you met John personally?))I have been talking to John since Nov. 2, 2000.Where I came in contact with him through the timetravelinstitute. I have been in communication with him every since.Thank you for the link, Rick. I listened to Dr. Anderson it was very interesting indeed. a lot of information. hopefully John will have a chance to listen to it.
I am pleasantly surprised I didn't realize what a great source of information Art had here on his web site. I will be listening to several other audios.sincerely,pamela
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-20-2001 03:38 PM
You flatter your self John. You know very well I didn’t mean that. I think that was a desperate move on your part. Like always attempting to turn it back to the reciever.And I’m picking up that your a bit annoyed. What ever happened to thinking rational? One of your fears isn’t it?I am pressed for time at the moment, but I will return later to finish this post A.S.A.P.-Javier C.
Posted by Brett Fredrico on 02-20-2001 05:09 PM
John posted the following yesterday(2/19/01):<——SNIPSuppose I told you the space shuttle would have a problem landing at Kennedy tomorrow because something goes wrong with the runway. If someone with the authority to do so hears that and makes the decision to land at Edwards…bingo, your future has changed from my past.<——SNIPWell, what did happen today? The space shuttle was scheduled to land at Kennedy as of this morning but was changed to Edwards at the last minute because of weather. This happens almost half the time though…..so John had a (50/50) chance of telling us the future if that is what he intended to do.
Posted by John Titor on 02-20-2001 05:23 PM
((so John had a (50/50) chance of telling us the future if that is what he intended to do.))
Yes, there was a 50/50 chance of that happening but the odds were easily one out two that it could have gone the other way.
Posted by Phillip Stout on 02-20-2001 05:56 PM
John,You said that there will be a big war right? And that Russia will nuke some of our major cities, right? Can you at least tell us which cities will be nuked? I’m already guessing you can’t. I pray Anchorage isn’t one of them..Are we traveling in space in 2036?Have we made it to Mars?Have we colonized the Moon?Has first contact with an alien race occured?
Posted by Doug Beauchamp on 02-20-2001 06:51 PM
Just a few questions, I apologize if they don’t seem 100% thought out or if they’ve already been answered, I’m tired and I have a lot of work still to do.1) You say your machine has roughly a 60 year limit. Is it possible to go back 60 years and then another 60 years?2) Have the people of your time proved the “world-line theory?” If they have, is there any information you can share with is that proves it?3) Ever hear the story of Edipus? To make a long story short, after being told he will kill his father and marry his mother he moves far away. On the road he acciddently killed his father and ended up marrying his mother. Thus, the prophecy is what caused him to fulfill it. You say you don’t want to effect anything too much by giving out information, but you could drastically change this worldline just by talking about the war, or anything for that matter.
Posted by Stephen McKay on 02-20-2001 06:58 PM
John,If you’re interested in posting some more photos and (pending your decision) the video of your departure, I would be happy to display them on my site. I’ve only got 5 meg storage, but I’m not using it at the moment.I’m eager to see some better photosE-mail me if you’re interested.Steve
Posted by James R.Quayle III on 02-20-2001 07:29 PM
QuestionJohn Titor ,i posted to you before and would like to let you know that i would love to come along for the ride to the future if you need a sidekick,i am able to fly hot air balloons,a good shot,physically strong and quick,smart on my feet in case a odd event occurs and I would not mind leaving this time to go to yours.
I am not attached to any one on this earth ,after all my ET encounters I need not worry of much of this earth,i am 31 and have much experience in the Occult(the hidden),and ET/human affairs,Oh and i know another TT traveler,and have met others.agentq3@hotmail.com
I thought i would get to the point ,and those who brave to ask get the Willy Wonka Golden TIcket,eh,John Titor,(Or do you not know of that movie reference) ?
Posted by Chris Forrest on 02-20-2001 08:01 PM
SmileJohn Titor,ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US.Well, I don’t buy your story. Sorry, some slang terms seem to confuse you. I don’t BELIEVE your story. I don’t pretend to know the first thing about such advanced topics as time travel, calculating a NFL quarterback rating, or the perfect temperature to cook a Hot Pocket in. Having written all that, of course I do have a question, something that will definitely tell me whether you are full of it or not.So here goes…There have been many movements in music…rock, disco, and hip hop are some of them. Though most people probably can’t rifle out names of musical groups from 35 years ago, they probably would have a basic awareness of what musical influences prevailed at the time. So my question is…what is the NEXT big movement in music that will take place here in the US, specifically?I have the feeling this sort of knowledge isn’t the stuff you go to Vegas and bet on, because it’s pretty generalized and pretty vague, as well. Of course, being as simple-minded as I am, I would figure that most people your age would know at least the types of musical influences that were around as they were growing up. A direct answer will work here, if you don’t mind.>>Chris>>
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-20-2001 09:58 PM
John,I like your format, and I see the representative you hired to answer your posts does also. Don’t mind if I steal it from you for just a moment .((How many days seem normal?)). 2 at the most. Especially when you make grandiose claims of being from the year 2036. Your credibility suffers big time when you don’t reply. Gives the impression that your trying to figure out what to say next .((Your question referred to army basic training. My earlier comment referred to be choosen for this mission.))Are you sure about that? I remember distinctively you saying that you got approached for this mission right after basic training. I mean, it was one of my first posts to you in the other forum. After saying “good thing I got injured, or that would have been my fate too.”By the way, not to be picky or anything. But I know how perfect you like to have things with your writing. I just wanted to point out that you misspelled CHOOSEN. It’s Chosen, with one O.((I’m not sure but it sure looks like your trying to say I’m being truthful within your expectations. However, if you’re trying to hurt my feelings, comparing me to a politician will do it.))Ok, here’s were we had a failure in communication. I have been saying all along that you manipulate your statements to benefit your story. I was only saying that you keep doing this, while dodging certain things that would discredit you. But mainly what I’m saying is that your story is very important to you, and that consistency is paramount to you. Right?((Actually, this is a good question. If the “me” here goes on to have the same type of life and future work that I did, it may not look good on his resume that another “him” has left a videotape behind of his future mission to 1975.))Now you think about this? So you’re this Time Traveler from the year 2036 who somehow managed to learn perfect English while fighting a war. But when you Time Traveled to the year 2000 you just had to spill the beans to everyone, and are now finally realizing the out comes of your actions might not be wise.Man, how irresponsible is that? Do you have any idea how you exploited your self here? Talk about chewing gum and walking at the same time .((If you look at my concern carefully, you can see that it won’t affect me at all. It affects him.))Yeah I see your concern.[1] Announcing to the whole world who you are.[2] Telling everyone what the future is going to be like, and what to watch out for.[3] Sharing scientific theories of Time Travel to your past, which is our present .[4] Using your perfect English and logic to manipulate others into believing and following your story.[5] Asking for volunteers to go back with you to the year 2036.[6] Saying where you were born and where you live, and knowing that government officials read these post everyday.[7] Admitting that you have a secret agenda. With that said, you know anything you say can be questionable. In other words, you can be lying to everyone big time about everything, your purpose, your motives, your reason for being here.[8] Offering to make a videotape of your departure.And much much more.Yeah I can see how you’re really concerned.I’m sure little Johnny will thank you for making his stay in a government facility the most comfortable during the war and missing his opportunity in becoming a Time Traveler?((I’m touched by your concern for my safety.))You said your self no one believes you. I was merely trying to see if you were correct. Excuse me for trying to take a poll.-Javier C.
Posted by John Titor on 02-21-2001 06:33 AM
Perhaps it goes without saying but I would urge everyone to listen to Art’s show tonight.
Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-21-2001 07:43 AM
Am I getting this right? You load up all the people who want to go with you in the back of your Chevy pickup, drive from Florida to Minnesota. Sell that truck in Minnesota, buy another truck older than 1975, load everyone back in that truck, drive back to Florida and then depart back to the future. Sounds like it will be quite a sight to behold. If you can, swing by Ohio and give me a honk. Your welcome to stay at my place.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 08:01 AM
Why is that John, somehow you managed to pay your way to get on the air? So your thinking big now huh?No problem.Little Johny needs all the free publicity he can get.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-21-2001 08:26 AM
Javier – I read your note here, and was thinking about something you said… something about “knowing government officials read these posts every day”.
Actually, I really don’t think they do.Think about this for a minute. I am one of the few government people I know that read stuff like this. To me, it is interesting (and there isn’t anything wrong with fantasy role playing in my opinion – assuming that is what John [and perhaps the rest of us] are doing).It makes sense that one would think they are, but.. who has time? (I do… I have a pretty inanne job most of the time so I read stuff like this when I’m waiting on backups to complete or other things running in the background).I seriously doubt the CIA or FBI has the man power or the time to do it. Secondarily to that – the so-called “Carnivore” system can’t POSSIBLY look at everything out there. I know it can’t. No matter what people think. It isn’t possible to catch every conversation, email, web page, pager data or anything else in the “ether”. IMPOSSIBLE at this point.Anyway… that’s my opinion on the government watching this stuff. They simply “don’t believe it” and “have better things to do”.
Posted by John Titor on 02-21-2001 08:45 AM
ROY:
((Just wanted to recommend a book I think might tell you volumes about present macro socio-economic conditions that lay the foundation for the evolving political divisions you state lead to a civil war in the US in the near future. The book is “When Corporations Rule the World” by John C. Korten.))
I’ll look for it, thanks. I have a couple for you. The Nine Nations of North America and/or The Physics of Immortality (anyone recognize this author).ANDREW:
((1) would you be able to internationally travel by: traveling to the year 2001, fly a plane to the desired destination, and then go to the future from there? ))
You can only travel in time from a static position (at least with the unit I have). In order to do even this, you must have knowledge of the local terrain and building structures. That’s one of the basic protocols we do in any time period for possible, future travelers.[Which pretty much agrees with my contention that roads, especially long-duration roads at cross sections, make the most stable destination targets for world-line and time-travel efforts. - Metallicman]
((2) If each world line is separate from the others, then wouldn’t the consequences of your actions now have no effect on your original world line?))
Yes, that’s correct.
((If this is the case, why won’t you tell us things that will give us knowledge or let us avoid death?))
I am not qualified to judge if you deserve it or not and I have no idea if you may be the next (for lack of a better reference) Hitler. However, if I were able to physically help you from a situation because I was there and I knew it was coming, I would help you.
((My only guess is that you are not a time traveler, and don’t want to say anything that could make a gullable person do something stupid. ))
Yes, I am aware that is the obvious first answer but I would hope my moral and logical arguments at least make a dent in your thinking. If you were a time traveler, would you be comfortable giving out all that information after considering the possible consequences? (Provided you knew it). If I were you, I would be worried about what the next time traveler might do….even by mistake.
((3) how can I leave a message for myself in the future if the things I do in this worldline do not effect the others?))
Just post it here. All this information will probably end up on the web in 2036. If you’re alive then and you think ahead for some reason to do a search on yourself, you might see it. Of course the “you” there would have no memory of doing it.MICHAEL:
((your prediction of its pending disintegration, beginning in three short years, is utterly improbable, if not impossible.))
Have you see the documentary on Waco? You can drive to a video store and rent it. It’s called “Waco – Rules of Engagement.” Just for argument’s sake, what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law enforcement officers there? Would you hope….nothing?
((P.S. The idea of a farmer general leaving his fields to lead his country’s troops to victory is an old one going back, at least, to Roman times. Lucius Quintus Cincinnatus, I believe, was the gentleman’s name, from the 5th Century B.C. Roman Republic.))
Yes, I often think about that when I see pictures of “my” farmer general in Omaha. It’s a large bronze depiction holding a shotgun in one hand a copy of the Constitution in the other. He is looking up at the sky in defiance of God after his father was killed. (At least his name isn’t Sparticus or William).ERNIE:
((I guess if you asked Joseph Campbell there are only a few stories and all literature is the re-telling of the same few stories in different settings.))
Just like life.Lola and the rest coming…
Posted by Lola Montez on 02-21-2001 10:28 AM
Javier,
You are getting very hostile. Lighten up! Why are you so threatened?
Does it really matter if John is authentic or not? The worst consequence of believing him is being better prepared in case of any emergency-natural disaster or otherwise. Weren’t you a boy-scout?
I think it would be more interesting, informative and just plain fun to find out more of what his vision of the future is than always trying to put him on the defensive.
(John, please stop buying into it)
Do you think you are going to finally find something to post that will get him to cry “Uncle!”. (Why wouldn’t he speak English?) I think you are getting too upset over this and you should ask yourself why.
Kind regards,Lola
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 11:18 AM
How am I being hostile? I’m just asking John questions and answering his comments in the best manner that I know how. No one here is being hostile.Well, maybe you with those statements.Better then being a fanatic, who believes in people so blindly.Well John, you have another fan to back you up.Somehow some people here believe you need to be protected and backed up.Go fig.It must be your story that appeals to them .And I’m exposing you. And that just hurts some people’s feelings.[Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 at 11:43 AM]
Posted by James R.Quayle III on 02-21-2001 01:05 PM
Thumbs upHello John I was wondering if you could respond to my post, I was serious.Agentq3
Posted by Joe Norris on 02-21-2001 01:29 PM
John:I guess there will be no answer about my Bill Clinton/Bill Gates post
Posted by John Titor on 02-21-2001 02:04 PM
If you take a look, I am answering every question in order unless I see something quick that I think needs a response.
Thanks.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 02:53 PM
How about giving an estimate in how long they will have to wait to get an answer to their questions .[Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 at 03:03 PM]
Posted by Doug Beauchamp on 02-21-2001 03:32 PM
Many people asking about the dangers of the war are asking about cities being nuked. During school today I was thinking about this, and nuclear warfare doesn’t seem to be the biggest form of fighting in the future.
Other than the small countries, I doubt nuclear warheads are going to be shot from each end of the globe.
To me, what seems like the biggest threat is biological warfare.
John, you say one of the hardest things to do in 2036 is find clean water. You also say you only trust food you’ve grown. Is any of this a result of your experiences with biological warfare? Is biological warfare a major threat in this war you speak of?This is definitely the least serious of my questions, but is there anymore background information you can give (What city you were born in, etc)? I understand if you can’t but after this thread is over I may get a little bored and see if I can find any information on the John Titor of “today,” assuming that’s your real name.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-21-2001 04:22 PM
Let’s get the facts straight.Javier I have been over those pages with a very open mind trying to figure out where you have seen John make that statement and I couldnt find it.This is the one you are claiming:[((Your question referred to army basic training. My earlier comment referred to be choosen for this mission))Are you sure about that? I remember distinctively you saying that you got approached for this mission right after basic training. I mean, it was one of my first posts to you in the other forum. After saying “good thing I got injured, or that would have been my fate also.]You made the statement on -Jan 1 2001page 6“well its a good thing I got injured in the Army, or else that might have been my fate as well.”awaiting your findings…could you please copy and paste the statement and tell me what page it is on…thanks.sincerely,pamela
Posted by John Titor on 02-21-2001 04:35 PM
LOLA:
((How far from what size city is it the safest to be?))
A 10 Kiloton nuclear weapon will vaporize metal for about ½ a mile and have a heat effect for about 3 miles. A 100 Megaton nuclear weapon will vaporize metal to 35 miles and have a heat effect to about 250 miles. I believe the largest nuclear weapon ever built and tested was about 60 megatons.
As I recall, the popular strategy toady is to strike targets with multiple numbers of smaller warheads. The 100 Kt to 1 Mt are the most popular. I believe there are about 150 – 200 major cities in the US and half as many military targets. Please correct me someone if I am grossly incorrect.
((You suggest bicycle. What about horseback?))
Yes, horses are good if you can feed and water them. Also, it’s very hard to eat a bicycle.
((Should we be stockpiling guns?))
The answer to this is NO!
You will draw a great deal of negative attention to yourself. I recommend become familiar with firearms. This means taking a safety course and learning to shoot and clean many different types. There will be plenty of guns around when you need them.
((What kind of people will be the ones least trustworthy?))
The people with the most to lose if the world changes -Camel through the eye of a needle?
((Is the conflict racial in any way?))
Not at all. In fact, I would say it goes a long way toward erasing racial problems.
((Does the civil war start in such a way that with this foreknowledge those willing will have time to remove themselves to safer locations.))
Yes. You will be forced to ask yourself how many civil rights you will give up to feel safe.[The reader needs to remember that this was written before 9-11.-Metallicman.]
((Will you readily be able to identify the enemy.))
They will be the ones arresting and holding people without due process.
((Does living near a river with a distillation unit take care of water problems?))
There is an odd saying that might be appropriate here. Safe is anywhere a hungry person can’t walk in three days. Water is important but you must consider that when people need it they will know where to get it. I would not plan on planting myself permanently next to a water source. Yes, distillation does make water safe but the runoff is highly dangerous. Please remember that distillation is not boiling.
((How are the five people within the 100 miles contacted?))
The goal is to have a place to go other than your house and to be able to trust someone with your life. Foster those relationships now.
((Do communications stay intact.))
Main communication systems no, CB, side-band and non-repeating short-wave, yes.
((I have 86 acres on a river in Central California about 125 miles north of LA. I have geese, turkeys, horses, chickens, milk cows, good pasture, a well run by electricity, and a garden. I also have two teenage sons who are gun nuts. Plenty of rifles, semi-automatic and otherwise.))
Be mobile. Set aside the things you absolutely would need and can carry on your back. You will not be able to stay anywhere indefinitely even with provisions and firearms.
(( Will he be asked to kill his countrymen?))
I’m not positive but don’t they sign a small piece of paper now asking them if they would have a problem with that?
Posted by Roy Meserve on 02-21-2001 05:44 PM
SmileThanks for those titles. I will look for them. To J Cortez chill… reality (and time) are very plastic things- we change the future AND the past constantly, and to far less noble ends. But, in the spirit of our friend- feel free to doubt and question- I do myself but I don’t let it stop me from trying to learn from what he has to say. Even the very common sense ‘rules’ for the potential future…. it costs me next to nothing to be aware or to prepare.Cheers,Royps John, it is Wednesday the 21st- did you say to tune into the show tonight?!!! Cause if so, I’m there! Hope you call.
Posted by Jim Houlahan on 02-21-2001 06:30 PM
John,I’m guessing the date of your return to the future is April 19th. Is this correct?Of course, if you’re just “having us on” then April 1st would be more appropriate.
Posted by Angel Lynnn on 02-21-2001 06:57 PM
ExclamationI think John was saying to listen to Dr. Day tonight. Check out her website:http://www.drday.com/Feb. 21, 2001Angellynnn
Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-21-2001 07:00 PM
SmileNow I’m not volunteering but…..I’ve noticed as so must have most of us. There are a lot of questions being asked that John has responded to.
Perhaps one of us could volunteer to compile all the direct q&a sort of a John Titor FAQ. This way new posters can read all the answers that have been given and not have the same questions asked over and over.John, we can have a topic just for the faq right on this board I think?General…I don’t think John is starved for web space to post his manual and pictures, many have offered John whatever resources he needs including me. So far he has not been interested.I’d be more than happy to give him a web site, a domain name, for that matter a web server if it would help get more answers and time out of him. Call me gullible if you want but I would do that.John:My mention of Joseph Campbell was a rebuttal to someone who claimed that your General story was nu-original. In fact the most likely leader of a movement like the one you describe would most likely be a Farmer since being a Farmer would provide much of the scenario required.My asking you if the mention of CERN going on-line and discovering this and that, was a prediction was a genuine question completely un-related to “making a Buck”.
I wondered if it was just a hint you were giving as to something that could be verified after the fact with little chance of you mentioning it having an effect on it.I’m sure it’s hard to remember what each poster has said, but in my case you missed. I have argued that the important thing here is the discussion and not if “you are” or “you are not” a TT. For me what is interesting is the type of questions that are being asked, and the apparent hostility that someone like you can be subjected to for no “good” reason.Ultimately there is no way to “prove” anything conclusive here.
Since I believe time travel is possible “now” I don’t have a problem with your story. I like your story since it ends up being a better world than we have now. I hope it is true.
If it is we are all lucky to have had a chance to talk to a TT. If not then I wish you either a quick recovery or a great career as a Sci Fi writer.What can we gain from this discussion? is the real question. I have already benefited from it as I believe you have, and many others.Javier…
To comment on Lola’s post. I understand your frustration, you want your questions answered.If I were John I would not answer your questions either or skirt them. Not because they are not valid, as they may be, but because your buttons are being pressed by his non compliance.I’m sure even in 2036 there is a tendency to tease one’s detractors if they make themselves available.To expose someone you have to present “proof” the same type of “proof” you are asking him for. According to our Laws if this were a court case John would not have to prove where he came from. The burden of proof is on the prosecution. It’s up to you to prove he is not a TT.So far most of your assertions have been related to either John not answering your questions, or some inconsistency in his story revolving around his Basic training and it’s relevance to when he was recruited for time travel.
Also his use of “perfect” English. His English is good but far from perfect.John has “not answered” some of my questions to “my satisfaction” and I for one am not ready to sign up for either the “I believe” camp or the “I don’t believe” camp.
My reason for straddling the fence at this time is that no one here has presented any evidence either way that would be conclusive. Not you, not John, not anyone.In a game of chess you have to either kill your opponent or chip away at his defenses until you trap him and he gives up. To do that you have to mount an offense that will neutralize his defenses. Conversely you have to mount a defense to repel his onslaught. So far you’ve not mounted either.John is “playing you” Javier. It’s an old trick, if your most vociferous detractor continually puts on weak attacks, it takes attention away from the really challenging questions.I’d be willing to bet that if you took all the posts from this BBS and the other one, and compared all of it, you may find more ammo for your cause.If I was going to come after a person, I would not warn him, I’d just get all my facts together, give him no warning and set up a line of questioning designed to trap him into “Mutually exclusive statements” if you could log enough of these you could prove he’s having trouble keeping the story together. A good sign that he is not telling the truth.Example:If you know enough about physics you can get him to say he doesn’t understand a concept that would be required to understand some other concept he claims to understand. To do that you have to know more than him. He knows as much physics as anyone posting here to say the least.Colloquial slips:
If you analyze all his statements you’ll find he is aware of some colloquialisms, and not others. That by itself is not much since he claims to come from the future you would expect some colloquial deviation. The thing to look at is which ones he knows and uses and which ones he doesn’t.He knows “make a buck” and “more power to you”, and “off the cuff”.He is unaware or dislikes “buy in” or “buy that”
Does that prove anything? not really. Given enough text you can profile him and make a good guess.Still it doesn’t “prove” anything. You have the same chance of exposing him as he has of convincing you. None.Here’s one for you John...What 82 page book written in England in 1884 is required reading for all physics students? I admit it’s possible you may not know in 2036, but highly unlikely. The same reason that makes it so important for physics students would make it just as important to understanding Time travel.Secondly why is this little book so important.
If he doesn’t know this it lends more circumstantial evidence to your side. But he could ask someone and then how do you prove that?How many amateur Physicists here know that answer without looking it up? Really. If you don’t know this off the top of your head, you don’t know squat about Hyper-dimensional Physics or it’s potential technological application. Unless you are Stephen Hawking, this is what it takes to get started. By the way Stephen Hawking read this book and knows exactly what I’m talking about. As do all physicists.How about this? Let John make a recording of himself saying he is from the future and whatever other part of his story he wants. We could submit that to voice stress analysis. Is that enough? no again, since a well trained person can beat a voice stress analysis by using self hypnosis or having someone hypnotize them prior to recording. Again no proof.Short of grabbing John and pumping him full of Sodium pentathol you are not going to have any conclusive proof until after he leaves and has made some predictions for you to check. Since he says this is not his timeline you can’t be sure a prediction is even a prediction. Again “no Proof”.So how is it you propose to expose John? can you show “me” your rationale. After all your statements and mine are up for scrutiny the moment we make them just like John.I realize in your mind you already have exposed him, just not good enough to convince me, and I would hazard to guess a number of others here.Let’s say everyone here agreed John was a fake. What then?No more discussion. End of exchange no more platform. Maybe.Anyway. that’s my take. I don’t think you are hostile just a little excited.Rick? any reports from your guys looking at the pics/manuals?Welcome LolaPeace
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 07:08 PM
ExclamationPamela,Touchy…When I have a little time I’ll do a keyword search for it. I’m sure it’s there. Why else would I say it? Right?No need to get upset with me. I know he’s your friend, but stop protecting him all the time.And to everyone else here. You all fail to see the big picture here. You have welcomed a stranger into your lives who is not what he appears to be. And I being one of the only one with enough sense to see that, you get upset with me.Excuse me, but are you forgetting that this man has a secret agenda? You can all be being played right now.But no, that doesn’t matter to you. At least I make no secret of what I am. A Time Travel Activist.http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atrium/9822/Thank you,Javier C.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-21-2001 07:20 PM
(((When I have a little time I’ll do a keyword search for it. I’m sure it’s there. Why else would I say it? Right? ))will that be within two days?I shall await….sincerely,pamela
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 08:06 PM
Pamela,I don’t know why your so upset with me, but you know my word is good. If I said I will do something, you know I will do it. Or have you forgotten that?-Javier C.
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-21-2001 08:20 PM
Javier you will obviously be one of the survivors 🙂John – Thanks for your replies.Does the sense of “here and now” continue for you in 2036, while you are here?IS your sense of “timing” off, in new time environments? I’ve heard people who have “out-of-body-experiences” find that it sometimes takes a day or two to regain a sense of normalcy in their minute interactions with the physical world.I remember reading a book about 7 years ago.GENERATIONS: THE HISTORY OF AMERICAS FUTUREIt was a sociological look at the history of the United States through the lens of different generational groups. The Authors noted a four cycle repetition.
[He is talking about the "Fourth Turning". FYI. Metallicman.]Its a bit of hard book to summarize, though its central thesis is this – History follows certain cycles. With respect to this folder, what stuck out for me was that the Millenial Kids (recently born and probably up to about 10 or 12 now) were of the same type as the kids who grew up and built the US infrastructure during the 30’s and 40’s -and then fought WW2. (GI Generation) The GIs were classified as a very civic minded generation. So will the Millenial Kids(MKs). MKs will go on to build the global infrastructure of the information age, the new transportation systems and the new municipal infrastructures. Similar to the GIs they will then go on to engage in global conflict.John – You were born about halfway into this cycle. BTW, GenXers would be about 40-50 years old in 2036. How they doin’? Were they pretty resourceful scrappers?(Fighters/Survivors)Bottom line was – prepare for wars around 2008-2012.http://www.timepage.org/Also see the back page of the New Yorker Dec. 25, 2000 -Jan. 1 2001. I’ve seen a few references recently to this growing cultural tension, one that supercedes the obvious class, racial and economic divides. Its different and more aggressive cultural mitosis than I had earlier noticed.
Posted by John Titor on 02-21-2001 08:48 PM
EMMETT:
((In this experiment the traveler only goes 30 seconds into the past to appear in his lab. It seems that 30 seconds before his experiment was to begin he saw himself appear in the lab. There would now be two travelers and two time machines. It doesn’t appear that it ends that simply as the “second” time traveler says that he saw a duplicate self appear in the lab thirty seconds before he started the trip. It would appear that its a time loop and an infinite number of duplicates see a duplicate self appear in the lab thirty seconds prior to the start of the trip. ))
Yes, that’s possible.
((Your time machine weighs 500 lbs and an average man weighs about 180 lbs. So lets say that that the mass is about 700 lbs per traveler. What is the mass of the duplicates and where did the mass come from?))
The other mass comes from other world-lines. I like to think of it as standing in a room with mirrors on the walls and the apparent “me” in the room next to mine steps into the room from his.[Highlight for significance. Metallicman.]
((What is the result of the duplicates arriving ~simultaneously at the ~same place and time?))
Psychological confusion and a few fist fights.
((How long will it take for the loop to decay? Will it decay? Is it a loop?))
The chances of hitting the precise world-line where all the other duplicates are arriving is almost zero. It’s possible but increasingly less probable with each arriving duplicate. The divergence decays and the worldline is “less available” for new “yous” to arrive on.
((What happens if the experimenter, upon seeing his duplicate, decides not to continue the experiment?))
He can always leave the room on his own world-line or put a desk full of books in the position where the time machine is arriving every 30 seconds. That will probably trip the VGL system and stop the time machines from arriving.RANDY:
((Do you remember any poetry or verse from after 2001 in your past?))
A Soldier’s WinterThe day before it wasn’t snowing.The trees are strangers, leering, disapproving in the ash of winter..my world, my life, my wandering path.I pray God’s eyes may once again gaze upon me and remind me that I am still His child.
I only (think) I remember the first line but the last one I remember. It has quite a few more lines that I don’t remember. It is rumored this was written first as a letter by a soldier. After he died it was added to and edited by others. In my opinion, it has become a symbol for the collective guilt my parents’ generation feels for what became of the world.
((Is there an active market on new books in your time, or has that infrastructure not rebuilt it self? Are most the books available old or new? ))
Yes but there are no large commercial printing and distribution companies. Books and other forms of hard media are distributed on the web and printed or put on other media from local hubs. Napster + mailboxes etc.
((Out of curiosity, as a rough judge of character, have you read the works of J.R.R. Tolkien? And did you enjoy them.))
My father read the Hobbit to me as a child. I was always afraid of the dark riders but perhaps I admired them too.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 10:44 PM
UnhappyIn a post from you Pamela, one before the one I posted where you had from the other forum. I suppose I took it as if it was one of TT_0 posts. Sorry :-(.Here’s a sample: “……In 1983 I enlisted in the united states Army .it was shortly after my enlistment and before completing basic training that I was approached by those I now refer to simply as MY FRIENDS. This group does not contain aliens nor interdimensional beings, they are human….”Well I’m humble enough to say when I am wrong, and I apologize for continuing to ask you this question John, and Pamela.But, much still remains to be seen of your truthfulness. Yet you have tons of supporters who you managed to woo into believing you without any physical proof. That in it self, how you would allow that, speaks suspect.Not to mention that you have a secret agenda, and expecting us to think you’re being honest.Right…-Javier C.
Posted by Lola Montez on 02-22-2001 12:13 AM
John,Thank you for getting to some of my questions. Here are a couple more.You say you were in the militia fighting the US Army. I would think that civilians would have a snowballs chance in hell of successfully fighting the military. What does this look like? Is it a stalemate with the resistance/militia hiding out until the cities are wiped out allowing them to surface?You site the approximate number of cities and military bases intact before the nuclear attack. Are they ALL hit? Three days walk from where? The nearest city? Again, though, what population makes a city a city and not a town?Does any one or any group stay neutral during all of these years of fighting? Does anyone just lead a reasonably normal life during the civil war? You say the civil war lasts from 2004 to 2008 and then the short big one in 2015. What do the years from 2008 to 2015 look like? How long does WWIII last.Where is the safest place in the US to be. Come on be a sport. We all seem worth saving, don’t we? Besides it would be interesting to see if any of us took you seriously enough to end up there. I don’t think I believe in coincidence. Maybe the reason we are all on this board now is to find this out.You mention the nature of Canadians but I don’t think you mentioned the impact of all of this on that country. Would you?Also, regarding your view on the afterlife. I also think that it is a mystery to unravel. That it is information, awareness, state of mind and experience that leads to enlightenment and the experience of God. Deeds and Dogma just don’t do it. As our awareness broadens doing the right thing is what comes naturally (more often, anyway!)If it is based on someone else’s idea of right it is a shallow and sporatic endeavor. Religion must be experiential or it has no staying power (and probably not enough compassion or tolerance).Oh yeah, one more thing that is rather haunting is your allusion to the position of women as being controversial and conservative in 2036. Yikes! What is that supposed to mean?Lola
Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-22-2001 03:20 AM
Javier,
Thank you for your honesty.I have went back and looked up that post you mentioned.
Yes, that post was where we were discussing whether the waverider had any validity or not. and right after that was when someone else posted that he had been on art bell for awhile and that Art had proved him to be a fake. which was posted on the TTI forum on January 1, 2001.
I had first seen the story on a paranormal site.
yep… and you did post right after that I see. actually that might have been where john discovered Art’s site as well. yep…it looks like john registered in January.
Its ok to question, we are all just trying to find out the truth about things. But we have to get the facts straight.sincerely,pamelap.s. I am not mad at you.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-22-2001 06:52 AM
Ernie – The only comment I have heard so far was – “Interesting… I need to look at the original though, to make any sort of determination. Where did you get this?”Hahaha. I told them I have “my sources”. They are content with that.To Javier – You made mention of something about folks taking someone into their lives, etc etc. While I understand that point of view – the “trust no one, be paranoid” very well – since I am like that myself, I have to say that you and a few others that have made comments here detract from the discussion in one aspect. Let me explain before you misunderstand me.In our society today, we have nothing but untrusting, cynical people out there. For good reason, most of them have had bad experiences. The internet is not to be trusted in general and people in general shouldn’t be trusted.Now, what I am trying to say here (not very well) is this is akin to some of the anti-gun people I meet. When I talk about the Second Amendment to them, they get all upset and scream and yell how no one should have guns and if there were no guns there would be no crime or war. I calmly point out that there were wars before there were guns, and they go on about how that was a “less civilized society”…Then there are the “skeptics” about UFOs, and any kind of odd, out of the ordinary occurrences (for instance, Big Foot, alien abductions, SETI etc). Let’s say for instance someone is a “skeptic” – that doesn’t mean they should close their minds completely to anything new, in fact, doesn’t mean they should close their eyes to the apparently impossible.In “my world” everything is possible. Just because we have a set of mathematics to describe something here and now, does NOT mean there isn’t a loop hole in those calculations.What I’m getting at is very simple. I don’t believe John is a time traveler right now. I have enough of a physics background to understand his information though and (assuming he IS real) eventually he will hit on something that I personally can use to verify for myself the truth.I think Ernie said nothing would be conclusive proof. Then again, I don’t require conclusive proof to keep “alive the idea that time travel is possible”.What I’m trying to say is that you’ve set yourself up to be John’s nemesis for some reason. If it is to protect the rest of us, that isn’t necessary. We’re all adult, thinking (free thinking) individuals who have the right to whatever beliefs we wish in this day and age, regardless of our gender, religious believes, race or even in my humble opinion, nationality.In other words… a skeptic is a good thing to be. Each of us should have our own, internal skepticism to use to mediate our belief systems. But, when someone comes in loud and strong trying to force everyone to his or her point of view, there is a serious problem.Now, I’m not asking that you (or anyone) NOT pursue their ideas, and idealism, nor am I even asking you not to try to convince people. I’m simply pointing out that we all have a right to our beliefs – without ridicule from anyone else.Don’t get me wrong here, I am not taking any one’s “side” as I don’t believe there are sides to take here.Someone else (I forget who it was) mentioned something about nuclear weapons being tossed from corner to corner of the earth and the impossibility of that. Think again.There is more of a nuclear threat, right now, today in 2001 than there was in 1983. During the Cold War, we never would have launched a nuke, nor would have the Soviet Union at each other.
[Did not happen. True, but almost did. Fact. Know your history. Metallicman.]However, there is a greater threat today because many smaller, and somewhat unstable countries are getting nuclear capability – and have access to other countries who would sell nukes without any qualms.Yes, biological threats are bigger, but do not rule out nukes, ever.Even the CIA special report that came our recently mentioned what I just said.I guess the only thing we need in this discussion are some more pictures of manuals, and/or a video tape of John’s “departure” (if that is what you would call it??) from our time line.Proof, sometimes like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.Rick
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-22-2001 07:57 AM
Rick,That was very inspirational. (How ever you spell it =)However, please understand that my intention is to just keep it real. And believe it or not, someone here has to.People will march to the sound of his beating drum if someone doesn’t speak up and offer an other side. In other words, lots of people here are one sided.Some aren’t free willed thinking individuals as you described… Some need people like John here to give them purpose. A person whom they can look for answers, not someone to lead them. A short-cut more like it.And Time Travel is that short-cut.You never been face to face with a Time Traveler have you? First hand experiences are always the hardest to have others understand.John is not what he appears to be. Yes he is well spoken, and has a pleasant manner in how he presents him self. But looks are deceiving when you have a secret agenda. Take that into your explanation…Well I have to go now. Ask me more questions if you want. I will answer them all to the best of my knowledge.Thank you,Javier C.
Fifth of multiple Posts
This post is the fifth of a series of posts related to John Titor. The other posts are;
Conclusion
Our reality is not what we think it is. I am not the only person who has disclosed that there are others, and other organizations that can enter and leave our reality at will. Another person who made this claim went by the name John Titor.
Only where as, I claim to be part of MAJestic and was employed as part of human sentience management, John Titor claimed to be a person who was part of another world-line. Together, we both claim that the MWI is real, and we utilize it to perform dimensional egress for our own purposes.
I claim that it is a tool that is used to manage human sentience evolution.
John Titor claims that he utilized the time variable to conduct acquisition activities in the past.
He claimed that on that world-line, the United States was fundamentally different after a rapid series of events in the late 1990’s. He claimed that he needed to perform some acquisition of certain technical devices through the use of the time-variance option in dimensional travel.
This is the fifth of a multi-part post.
Take Aways
John Titor claimed to be a time traveler.
He utilized dimensional travel to move in and out of the baseline reality.
As such, he visited our world-line to acquire some technology needed on his world-line.
That technology was produced in “our” past. Thus the idea that it involved “time travel”.
MAJestic Related Posts – Training
These are posts and articles that revolve around how I was recruited for MAJestic and my training. Also discussed is the nature of secret programs. I really do not know why the organization was kept so secret. It really wasn’t because of any kind of military concern, and the technologies were way too involved for any kind of information transfer. The only conclusion that I can come to is that we were obligated to maintain secrecy at the behalf of our extraterrestrial benefactors.
MAJestic Related Posts – Our Universe
These particular posts are concerned about the universe that we are all part of. Being entangled as I was, and involved in the crazy things that I was, I was given some insight. This insight wasn’t anything super special. Rather it offered me perception along with advantage. Here, I try to impart some of that knowledge through discussion.
Enjoy.
MAJestic Related Posts – World-Line Travel
These posts are related to “reality slides”. Other more common terms are “world-line travel”, or the MWI. What people fail to grasp is that when a person has the ability to slide into a different reality (pass into a different world-line), they are able to “touch” Heaven to some extent. Here are posts that cover this topic.
John Titor Related Posts
Another person, collectively known by the identity of “John Titor” claimed to utilize world-line (MWI egress) travel to collect artifacts from the past. He is an interesting subject to discuss. Here we have multiple posts in this regard.
Continuing on our study of the John Titor situation, let’s look at the reactions that society has had to his presence… the John Titor Reactions…
Important Warning
The information within this series of posts are speculative. I have no factual information if this John Titor is what he claimed to be. It is presented herein as the only (or maybe, one of the only) sources that claim to be associated with the vehicles that pop in and out of our reality from time to time.
He was, as far as I know, never associated with MAJestic in any way.
Patents
John Titor Time Machine Patent
John Titor’s time machine has been patented . Application dated 2004, granted in 2006. Same drawings presented. Patented by: Marlin B. Pohlman, Tulsa, Oklahoma Application number: 10/954,767 Publication number: US 2006/0073976 A1 Filing date: Oct 1, 2004.
Below is a section from the first page from the patent.
"I claim:1. A method for the generation of a pseudo 2+1 dimensional anti-de Sitter space comprising the steps of: creating two Kerr type positively charged rotating dilation singularities, including the steps of maintaining one of the singularities as a axis of rotation reference singularity, maintaining the other of the singularities as a target singularity, and subjecting the target singularity to a differential electron flow so as to simultaneously pass the differential electron flow above a photosphere of said target singularity in a direction of rotation thereof and contrary to the direction of rotation thereof, in order to release a directed flow of gravitons in a sinusoidal oscillation simulating a rotational effect of the target singularity around the axis of rotation provided by the reference singularity. 2. A method of generating a force around a body, comprising the steps of: employing sinusoidal oscillations of electrical bombardment on the surface of one Kerr type reference singularity in close proximity to a second Kerr type target singularity to take advantage of the Lense-Thirring effect, wherein the electrical currents employed in the bombardment are passed simultaneously across the photosphere of said reference singularity in its direction of rotation and contrary to its direction of rotation to release a directed flow of gravitons in a sinusoidal oscillation simulating a rotational effect of the target singularity around the axis of rotation provided by the reference singularity; creating timelike curves in a compact time-oriented manifold of G{umlaut over ( )}odel-type geodesically complete spacetime envelope under the Van Den Broeck modification of the Alcubierre geometry, resulting in the creation of timelike curves in a compact time-oriented manifold permitting topology change from one spacelike boundary to the other in accordance with Geroch's theorem. Description:FIELD OF THE INVENTIONThe present invention relates to the use of technical time displacement devices, which operate by the modification of gravitational fields. These drive systems do not depend on the emission of matter to create thrust to take advantage of time dilation, but rather create a change in the curvature of space-time, in accordance with general relativity. This allows travel across topologies by warping space-time, to produce a topology change from one spacelike boundary to the other in accordance with Geroch's theorem (Geroch 1967)THEORETICAL BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTIONThe concept of gravity should be examined in the light of quantum gravity and in turn as a component of quantum physics itself. The fundamental minimal quantum of energy in quantum physics is Planck's constant; h. Thus in accordance with the energy equivalence formula E=mc2, the fundamental minimum quantity of mass (mq) can therefore be derived, from known constants by; mq=h/c2 (1). Taking this minimal mass, it is possible to show that the formation of all matter, the forces of nature and indeed space-time itself derive from this single quintessential quantity.Thus if the number of quintessences in a system is; nq=m/mq: then the total Energy of the system is more logically given by, the energy of a single quintessence (h); directly multiplied by the number of quintessences (nq) in that system, thus E=hnq=mc2 (1 a).Furthermore, this minimal mass, termed quintessence, can form the basis of the existence of a quantum gravitational field in the form of a space-time lattice, from which quantum gravity may be derived from first principles. Furthermore, the conglomeration of these quintessences also accounts for the formation of the elementary particles and the forces acting between them, as in superstring theory. This concept explains the formation of matter and the forces of nature on a quantum mechanical basis and directly explains the existence of wave particle duality. Thus as nq=m/mq; the frequency of light and matter (f) is determined, directly, from the number of constituent quintessences. This leads automatically to the fundamental equation, derived from (1), f=nq=E/h, where nq is the number of quintessences, which leads directly to the frequency of both light and matter. This in turn leads directly to a Universal wave equation for matter...
Marlin B. Pohlman
What happened to the guy who patented this device is very interesting…
By creating an artificial wormhole time travel is possible. At first glance, such a thing might be too fantastic a notion to believe, yet Pohlman does hold a Bachelor of Science in Engineering Physics, an MBA from Lexington Business School, and a PhD in computer science from Trinity University.
He's also a member of Portland Mensa, and is a Licensed Professional Engineer, Certified Information Systems Auditor, Certified Information Security Manager and Certified Information Systems security professional.
Perhaps he invented the time machine because he discovered he hasn't enough time to squeeze in everything he wants to accomplish?-Ask Patents
One of the most curious sagas of the entire John Titor story is what happened to the person who patented the John Titor time displacement machine.
Whether the reader believes that the person who patented the invention is John Titor or an opportunist is up to the reader to determine. It is certainly a function of whether the reader believes he is a hoax or legitimate.
What is really interesting about this story is what happened once someone patented this invention. Please take note;
A guy named Marlin B Pohlman Patents the time displacement machine and related technology.
Pohlman applies for the patent in 2006.
Since the initial application date, the patent status has never changed! No rulings or decisions..Nothing.
No actual patent has been granted in this case (it was rejected in 2007 and abandoned in 2008). The official reason for the rejection is the lack of utility – meaning a lack of sufficient proof of this invention being possible/executable. (Quote: Final Rejection document from 08.08. 2007)
March 14, 2013 . Marlin Brandt Pohlman, a 43-year-old man accused of drugging and sexually assaulting four women he met at parties, pleaded not guilty in Multnomah County Circuit Court to 25 allegations.
Pohlman was held on a $2 million bail – a remarkably high sum for Portland.
He is arrested and sentenced to prison followed by monitoring as a Sex Offender.
Need I remind the reader that most MAJestic operatives are retired as Sex Offenders so that they can be monitored.
Most reach this period of retirement after 20 to 30 years in the MAJestic organization. I was retired when I was 44 years old. (I am not saying that this person is part of MAJestic, but rather that this individual is retired in a manner consistent with those whom possess technical “secrets” or abilities.)
What is most interesting is the large amount of press that he has gotten, and the great lengths made to disparage his background.
All that being said, it really is a good patent it’s just missing exactly what it says it’s missing and that’s probably why it was rejected because microsingularities haven’t been (officially) invented or even (officially) observed yet, but they are possible.
Remember, boys and girls, "official" existence of something is what is made public to the general population. Most advanced technology is kept hidden in "carve outs" and only the "anointed" might work with the technology.
But keep in mind this patent isn’t patenting Kerr black holes, it’s patenting a machine that uses them, even if theoretically.
I think the main reason it was rejected is because he included the John Titor diagrams which are already copyrighted and trademarked by the John Titor Foundation under Larry Haber. Anyways, let’s look at what the oligarchy has to say about Marln Pohlman…
“Portland computer expert accused of drugging, sexually assaulting women he met at parties”
“Computer executive ‘raped four women he met at parties after drugging them with LSD, ecstasy and laughing gas injected through spring-loaded syringes'”
“Really? Why all the press on this guy? This shit happens every day.. One link has a ten things you need to know slides how FFS... Something is very fishy here..”-DooobieDooobieDo“Guys this shit is crazy..read my OP for the edit.. This guy had to be set up”-DooobieDooobieDo
Fraud or World-Line Connections
Investigators from Italy have tracked the ISP and tell-tale electronic signatures relative to the postings of “John Titor” to an individual named “John Rick Harber”. This was confirmed by a private investigator named Mike Lynch.
The investigator has traced John Rick Haber’s brother to a foundation called the John Titor Foundation.
This organization owns much of the copyright information to the “John Titor” material.
Lawrence Haber, Esq. is the attorney and general manager for the John Titor Foundation.
He was also the Chief Counsel for VISI Corp (and may still be) when the Foundation came into existence. Mr. Haber is a computer scientist, so he would of course know about the technical aspects of the computer-related information as discussed by “John Titor”.
The very nature of this (possible) disclosure makes it impossible to verify.
The investigatory effort shows and indicates real connections between an individual and a means to profit from the disclosure. However, that in no way confirms that the person trying to profit from it is the SAME person who made the disclosure. They might be related, for instance a friend that John Titor made in this world-line. A friend, mind you, who permitted John Titor to access his ISP.
+++
In any event, in my mind, it seems that the evidence for this disclosure to be a fraud is pretty strong.
That is, however…
…until I look at what I know as part of MAJestic, and the other accumulation of various visual evidences collected in the previous chapter. Then, when I pause and take a second look. Today, I am no longer so sure…
Fun Frauds and Hoaxes
Oh the funny internet.
It seems that once you post something of interest, it tends to spawn a multitude of “false positives”. These “false positives” make it extremely difficult to find the genuine article among all that clutter.
Elsewhere, I have postulated that this is one of the characteristics of a disinformation campaign. And, indeed it is. If someone posts some on the internet that needs to be secret or hidden, you propagate all sorts of fakes that dilute the ability to find the originals.
However, that does not omit the fact that there are teenagers, and hoaxers of all ages with a cheap computer and time on their hands.
Here are some of the frauds and disinformation attempts that tend to render the disclosure into obscurity;
Photos ‘Prove’ Donald Trump Is Time Traveler John Titor
Why not? President Bush was a space alien, and President Obama was Jesus Christ (though he certainly acted more like Santa Claus…).
It’s a common theme apparently. There are more than just a few videos posted on the internet with this theme.
Someone apparently thought that the video of “Girls just want to have fun” by Cyndi Lauper contained a video of John Titor. How can this be you may ask? Well they stitched together some pictures of thin men with dark sunglasses and short hair throughout history. Called them time travelers, and pointed out a person with the same description in the video. Voilà!
Of course, they never discuss why in the world would anyone WANT to be in a music video in 1983. Nor do they discuss why a time traveler would want to do so either. It’s as if everyone wants to be famous and noticed. I guess everyone has the mindset of a 13 year old. How quaint.
Of course, many of the people who put up these silly videos haven’t even read his dialog. You would think that that would be one of the first things a person would do. Right?
Here’s a good example of that.
In this case the person posts a video of a guy walking into a bright light. Interesting, and great special effects. But we happen to know by reading the dialog that John Titor outfitted a car to go to 1975 to continue on his mission. (He had to back track and retrace his steps to return to his home world-line.) We know that the Time Displacement Mechanism is quite large. We also know that there is a momentary (micro-second not multiple-second) burst of UV light… not visible light. UV-light.
This stuff cracks me up.
The person who posted this did so on 18NOV15. He stated that “He recorded this video in 2001, that’s why the quality is bad.” Without telling us how John Titor recorded himself, and who had the video during the 15 years since, and how the poster obtained the video or any of the background information regarding it.
Some videos just throw about the name John Titor so they can get more “hits” and visits to watch the video. In it are some buried “evidence” of more or less curious banter. In the example below is a time traveler from the future who is interrogated. You would think that they would provide better lighting, and better filming then just a hand held smart phone. Don’t ya know?
But the eerie music and the preponderance of exclamation points in the dialog are a nice touch… (If you were a 5 year old.)
More Fake John Titor(s) – Retirement, Book Deals, Movies, Etc.
There are numerous individuals who are trying to capitalize on the “John Titor” saga. One even has his name. However, they are all hoaxes. It’s all nonsense. For purposes of clarity, there is only one John Titor with only one disclosure event. That event lasted for a brief period of time centered around the year 2000. Anything else is nonsense.
Here is a typical “fake” John Titor. Apparently this one is involved in more than just an Internet video, but has a book deal, and even a potential movie. My goodness! Go watch the nonsense here;
I have listened to some of these individuals who proclaim to be John Titor who returned back for “retirement”. Their stories do not even match up with the original John Titor at all. I wonder if they even ever did their homework.
For instance, John Titor (real) stated that there isn’t any “Global Warming”, the fake wanna-be John Titor claims that he returned to 2017 due to “Global Warming”. (Oh brother!)
The original John Titor did not want to tell anything about the future events that would happen, however the fake John Titor is full of all kinds of stories how Trump will hold two terms etc.
Seriously, moving to a different world-line for retirement is not a realistic scenario at the least;
Friends, family, dogs, cats, and possessions would have to be discarded, never to ever see again. The fake John Titor has no problem with this.
The fake John Titor thinks it is just fine to move to a different time and place and adapt so easy and comfortably. Cultural differences are fine for a short visit, but never fun when long term occupation is concerned. Don’t think so? Try living in Guangdong, China from Boston for six months. (And, even after all these years, I just can’t get over the lack of automats, and the crazy idea that potatoes are served with eggs. Potatoes! Of all things. At least in China they realize that breakfast should be served with beans of some sort…such as YouTiao, or DouJiang.)
Why move to 2017? According to original John Titor, it was not a desirable time, even if the world-line was altered. In other words, why retire right before World War III?
Retire to another world-line and write a book and make videos about it? Come on! You want to keep your knowledge and skill-sets quiet. At least until you are old and in your retirement years.
According to the fake John Titor he has the displacement mechanism in his garage. So, his employer would just give that piece of equipment to him? So that he can show it to everyone on this time line?
I suppose that upon my demise that there would be those who pretend to be me and spout fake nonsense after this blog is terminated. Well, dear reader, do not be fooled. There is only ONE manuscript. This is it.
I promise you that I won’t do anything else, even if somehow they exhume my body, resuscitate me and offer me a contract in payment. I won’t do it.I PROMISE. All and any subsequent writings, videos, audio, and photos will not come from me. I will be dead. Dead as a cold possum lying in the hot Texas heat alongside the road.
Latest updates
Discourse screen capture.
From reddit; As we know, John Titor, JT, allegedly left our timeline in the year 2001, leaving behind little, except for a few items to select individuals.
In the years since, the story has had its highs and lows, the most recent major spike sometime around 2010, over five years ago, when Lawrence H. Haber, supposed attorney for JT’s mother in our timeline, was found to be in connection with the John Titor Foundation, founded in 2003.
The trail’s been pretty cold ever since. A new website popped up in 2012, but I haven’t heard of anyone who’s been able to decode it; it clearly has something to do with multiple John’s somehow using the original posts to accomplish something. The case seems to have gone cold.
Links
The John Titor Story (Probably the best summary available).
John Titor: The Time Traveler From 2036. Why people believe John Titor. Published on Apr 21, 2017. To this day, those who spoke to him still wonder who he was, he left a lasting impression and people were very taken with what he had to say, he seemed very ahead of Time and could answer any question, remember this was a time before you could simply ‘google’ answers.
John titor Predictions (That came true.) This is a very good video listing many things that John Titor predicted that actually came true. Many or even most of what is listed here in this video is not covered in this manuscript. Published on Nov 28, 2014. I wish he would post an updated version after the 2016 election.
Time Travel: The Story of John Titor | Digging Deeper (Video summary)
Conclusion
“Some theorize that John Titor went back to 1973-1975 and just told the guy working on the IBM 5100 dating system how to deal with Y2K.”-Ren
In my mind, I happen to believe his story. I do believe that he is leaving certain things out. However, there are numerous tell tale signs that indicate validity.
He certainly went to a lot of effort to (physically) construct the “Time Displacement Mechanism” for a mere hoax. After all, he would have at the bare minimum have been expected to have taken more than two photos of it.
The point above also includes the technical cross section of the mechanism.
The point above includes photos of elements of the instruction manual.
The photo of the laser light bending outside the open window of the vehicle during operation is both convincing and difficult to fake using 1998 software (by most computer users at the time). Indeed who would even think of such an effect to fake? BTW, How could you fake that effect?
Manuals show evidence of manual (non-electric) typewritters using basic computer graphics found on pre-windows 98 systems. This is in full compliance with the John Titor story.
His disclosure’ reactions maintains the core indicators of a disinformation campaign.
He predicted the social & political trends accurately.
He predicted the American police state accurately.
He stated that one of the strangest American futures was one in which New York was without a prominent skyscraper (The World Trade Center which disappeared in 9-11-2001.). Note that he did not think that that would be the future for the United States. He expected that the world-line would maintain the same path to civil war followed by global nuclear war. The only thing that would be different was that there would not be any civil disruption associated with Y2K, and his parents would stay alive through it. However, what actually occurred is his meddling in the future brought a more extreme future (from his point of view). Alternatively, alternatively, he about this future all alone, but did not want to mention it.
The society today, and the social / political trends are what would be in place if he did thwart the Y2K fiasco.
Finally,
There is substantial evidence from automobile cams, road and traffic cams, and smart phones that vehicles are popping in and out of our reality on roads. This is the ONLY disclosure where someone offers an explanation as to what all this actually is.
The implications of this can alter our perception of the statist view of our world. It is a world that is constantly changing in accordance with MWI and is constantly undergoing changes in direction due to interference’s from other world lines. Additionally the influences of time travel abound. Finally, there are other extraterrestrial species that have perfected these techniques as well, and they too place a hand in the shaping of the world that we all communally perceive.
Fourth of multiple Posts
This post is the fourth of a series of posts related to John Titor. The other posts are;
Conclusion
Our reality is not what we think it is. I am not the only person who has disclosed that there are others, and other organizations that can enter and leave our reality at will. Another person who made this claim went by the name John Titor.
Only where as, I claim to be part of MAJestic and was employed as part of human sentience management, John Titor claimed to be a person who was part of another world-line. Together, we both claim that the MWI is real, and we utilize it to perform dimensional egress for our own purposes.
I claim that it is a tool that is used to manage human sentience evolution.
John Titor claims that he utilized the time variable to conduct acquisition activities in the past.
He claimed that on that world-line, the United States was fundamentally different after a rapid series of events in the late 1990’s. He claimed that he needed to perform some acquisition of certain technical devices through the use of the time-variance option in dimensional travel.
This is the fourth of a multi-part post.
Take Aways
John Titor claimed to be a time traveler.
He utilized dimensional travel to move in and out of the baseline reality.
As such, he visited our world-line to acquire some technology needed on his world-line.
That technology was produced in “our” past. Thus the idea that it involved “time travel”.
MAJestic Related Posts – Training
These are posts and articles that revolve around how I was recruited for MAJestic and my training. Also discussed is the nature of secret programs. I really do not know why the organization was kept so secret. It really wasn’t because of any kind of military concern, and the technologies were way too involved for any kind of information transfer. The only conclusion that I can come to is that we were obligated to maintain secrecy at the behalf of our extraterrestrial benefactors.
MAJestic Related Posts – Our Universe
These particular posts are concerned about the universe that we are all part of. Being entangled as I was, and involved in the crazy things that I was, I was given some insight. This insight wasn’t anything super special. Rather it offered me perception along with advantage. Here, I try to impart some of that knowledge through discussion.
Enjoy.
MAJestic Related Posts – World-Line Travel
These posts are related to “reality slides”. Other more common terms are “world-line travel”, or the MWI. What people fail to grasp is that when a person has the ability to slide into a different reality (pass into a different world-line), they are able to “touch” Heaven to some extent. Here are posts that cover this topic.
John Titor Related Posts
Another person, collectively known by the identity of “John Titor” claimed to utilize world-line (MWI egress) travel to collect artifacts from the past. He is an interesting subject to discuss. Here we have multiple posts in this regard.
Now, let’s take some time and talk about the John Titor Time Machine. For it is a mechanism that provides a bubble whereas a physical entity might move from one world-line and one time-line to another.
Titor started inviting people to see photos of the “John Titor Time Machine”, and explained to them how it worked. Titor described it as a “stationary mass, temporal displacement unit powered by two top-spin, dual positive singularities”, and posted several images of the manual. According to Titor, his time machine includes:
Two magnetic housing units for the dual micro singularities
An electron injection manifold to alter mass and gravity micro singularities
A cooling and X-ray venting system
Gravity sensors, or a variable gravity lock
Four main cesium clocks
Three main computer units
John Titor Time Machine. John Titor Displacement Mechanism Schematic. This is the schematic of the mechanism that he used for dimensional travel. This page is very interesting as it is the most detailed page of the manual, but is drawn by hand, not CAD. The rest of the manual is drawn using basic software drawing packages.
The John Titor Time Machine was installed in a 1967 Chevrolet Camaro (later in a van), and it weighed around 500 pounds. Titor claims that CERN would discover one year later a way to create micro-singularities, but that they would evaporate a split second after and emit large amounts of X and Gamma rays.
“TimeTravel_0 : SERN will discover some very odd things as a result of their high energy experiments, in about a year from your point of view. They will accidentally create micro-singularities, which will evaporate very quickly, and create a massive amount of X-ray and Gamma rays.
It will puzzle them for a while, until they figure out how to add an electrical charge and capture these strange odd and massive particles in a magnetic field.
If you bombard a singularity with electrons… you can alter the size of its event horizon, and thus its gravitational field. By overlapping these fields from two singularities… you can travel forward and backward through time. Its actually quite simple.”
Important Warning
The information within this series of posts are speculative. I have no factual information if this John Titor is what he claimed to be. It is presented herein as the only (or maybe, one of the only) sources that claim to be associated with the vehicles that pop in and out of our reality from time to time.
He was, as far as I know, never associated with MAJestic in any way.
Principle of Operation
The “John Titor Time Machine” works with a dual kerr black-hole principle. Titor comments that the real challenge here was detecting gravity. With his own words:
TimeTravel_0 : Altering gravity is not the hard part.
TimeTravel_0 : Detecting gravity is the hard part.
TimeTravel_0 : I will tell you a little story.
TimeTravel_0 : When time travel was invented.
TimeTravel_0 : They built prototypes that would go back in time for a split second and then return.
TimeTravel_0 : They had sensors and cameras on them.
TimeTravel_0 : ...and they never returned.
TimeTravel_0 : It was later discovered that the machines were ending up about 15 miles away and 3000 feet in the air.
TimeTravel_0 : feet
TimeTravel_0 : The Earth was rotating away from them.
TimeTravel_0 : A system had to be invented that would "hold" the machine to the Earth.
TimeTravel_0 : Its called VGL.
TimeTravel_0 : Its based on very sensitive clocks and gravity sensors.
TimeTravel_0 : It stops the time distortion machine if radical changes in gravity are detected.
wyrmkin_37 : mechanical or electronic clocksTimeTravel_0 : You wouldn't want to end up inside a mountain or under water...would you?
TimeTravel_0 : Cesium.
His Time Travel Theory
Imagine there is an infinite variety of “world lines” – parallel worlds, possible futures – there would as well be a world line, where John Titor grew up, experienced a World War 3 and time traveled. This is the basics on how the “John Titor Time Machine” worked.
Re-positioned in a van.
In fact, as I see it, there would always be a half of these world lines where a statement is true and where it’s false, i.g. World War 3 (a half infinity is still infinite). If we do not experience this event in our world line, we are in the half where this is not true, while John came from a world line where it actually happened – however, he meant that we are in a world line where this is going to happen.
. Laser light distorted by the gravity field! The idea that gravity bends light is common for students of physics, not so common for the bulk of Americans. The idea or concept that a generated black hole would generate gravity, and that it would bend light around it is not common knowledge, though movies like Star Wars might give one that impression. From the dialog “This is a picture taken in the fall of 2035 during my training. It shows my instructor beaming a handheld laser outside the vehicle during operation. The beam is being bent by the gravitational field produced outside the vehicle by the distortion unit. The beam is visible through smoke that is coming from his cigar. “
Question. How come he traveled to our world line, and not somebody else’s? (To get an IBM 5100 computer system, of course – but it still makes me wonder…) Again, there could be an infinite variety of world lines where he time traveled, and another infinite variety of world lines where he did not.
Anyway, here is an explanation from his point of view:
"As far as the future goes, your world-line is about 2.5% different than mine. This is a roughly cumulative measurement based on my arrival in 1975.
As far as I can tell right now, you are headed toward the same events I would call “my history” in 2036.
However, the very nature of time travel states that every world-line is unique and you are very much in control of what you do and how you get there. Heck, the fact that I’m here makes it different from mine."
The Invention Of Time Travel (According to John Titor)
There are many people with ideas and opinions. When we hear of something that lies outside our experience, we are often desirous of belittling it, or negating it. That is unfortunate, and should be avoided. We need to listen. We need to observe, and we need to think.
“Oliver Stone makes movies. I am willing to concede that he is quite accomplished in the area of film-making. Indeed, we should all listen to him if the subject of making movies happens to present itself here on Zero Hedge.
As for geopolitics, Oliver Stone has no more persuasiveness than the unemployed history doctorate that bags my groceries. He would do us all a favor by just keeping his mouth closed and staying with what he knows.”-Librarian . Comment posted in response to an article by famed movie producer Oliver Stone for his article where he claims that four months into the Donald Trump presidency, that it is disaster.
Here is an overview of the operation and the invention of time-travel as described John Titor. Originally posted by John Titor on February 14/15, 2001. Summary is presented herein with comments from the author.
Acceleration = Time Dilation
“As pointed out earlier, acceleration will produce time dilation. This can be observed by the “twins paradox”. As one twin stays on Earth, the other twin in his accelerating spaceship experiences a slower passing of time. When he returns to Earth, he is noticeably younger than his twin who aged normally in Earth time.
This type of “time travel” should have been proven already on this world-line with atomic clock experiments.
With sufficient power, this type of time travel will only provide practical displacement in a futile direction. This type of time travel is also isolated to a single world-line. You will not meet yourself.”
Time travel is possible along the lines in accordance with the understandings of contemporaneous literature and science. Time dilation creates a comparative method of time travel. This method is NOT the same as the method that John Titor used.
This method ONLY provides “time travel” in a forward direction. It does not permit travel into the past.
This method also is limited to a single world-line. It does not permit multiple world-line travel. Moreover, since it is limited to a single world-line and limited to only travel into the future, the time traveler is highly unlikely to meet himself.
This is an interesting analogy, but aside from the purposes of a basic introduction, it holds little value. Further, there are all sorts of arguments that “muddy up the waters” of this issue. Sigh…
“As Einstein pointed out with his STR, the effects of gravity and acceleration are the same. Therefore, you will experience the same time travel effects in the twin paradox by being close to a large gravity source.
In the atomic clock experiments mentioned above, the reason there was a difference in time was not because the clock in the plane was moving, it was because the clock in the well was closer to the center of the Earth.
Constant speed is not acceleration.”
This is basic Statics and Dynamics taught in any freshman engineering class.
Large Gravity = Static Black Hole
“The next step is to find a large gravity source to use in your time machine.
Static black holes provide this type of power.
As one twin approaches the event horizon or edge of the black hole, the other twin will watch him as he appears to slow down. He will notice his twin’s watch run slower until it stops at the event horizon.
The twin moving toward the horizon will notice none of this and see his watch running just fine.
Although possible, a trip into a static black hole will not take you to another world-line and it’s one-way. The force of gravity will crush you.”
Gravity affects time. Given a large enough gravity source, one can use it to alter time. This is also well known.
John Titor states that his machine controls micro-black holes. He states that static black holes can provide this type of power.
You cannot use them as they are for time travel. The nature of the black hole will crush the fragile humans by the huge gravitational forces present.
Rotating Black Hole = Doughnut-shaped Singularity
“Fortunately, most black holes are not static. They spin.
Spinning black holes are often referred to as Kerr black holes.
A Kerr black hole has two interesting properties.
One, they have two event horizons.
And two, the singularity is not a point, it looks more like a doughnut.
These odd properties also have a pronounced affect on the black hole’s gravity. There are vectors where you can approach the singularity without being crushed by gravity.”
According to John Titor, the micro-black hole in the dimensional distortion machine utilizes “Kerr Black Holes”.
According to John Titor the shape is not identical to what is commonly formulated by physicists; a simple rotating sphere. Instead, he claims that the actual shape is more akin to that of a doughnut. As such, the geometry of such an object allows it to possess not one, but two event horizons.
The Kerr metric or Kerr geometry describes the geometry of empty space-time around a rotating uncharged axially-symmetric black hole with a spherical event horizon. The Kerr metric is an exact solution of the Einstein field equations of general relativity; these equations are highly non-linear, which makes exact solutions very difficult to find. Go here; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerr_metric
However, I would prefer to digress here as it is my calculations indicate two event horizons as well. The event horizons are clearly shown in the figure below. The singularity is an equatorial line that circles the micro-black hole. (It is not a point singularity.)
The two event horizons differ from that of a classical point singularity = spherical event horizon, to that of a two dimensional singularity. Thus for a two dimensional singularity, the two event horizons are easy to visualize. As one is “above” the singularity, and the other is “below” the singularity. Please see the figure below.
Again, the singularity is not a spherical point, but rather more like a doughnut.
The geometry of such a configuration has a unique gravitational signature. Because of this, there are vectors, or “methods of approach” that a person can use to manipulate these unique properties to avoid the crush-properties of the inherent gravitational field.
A great write up on this can be found on the PDF titled “The Kerr Spacetime: A brief Introduction” found at https://arxiv.org/pdf/0706.0622v3.pdf#35 .
I urge the reader to take particular note to figure three which shows a Polar slice through the Kerr spacetime in Cartesian Kerr–Schild coordinates. Location of the horizons, ergosurfaces, and curvature singularity is shown for a = 0.99 m and m = 1. Note that the inner and outer horizons are ellipses in these coordinates, while the inner and outer ergosurfaces are more complicated. The curvature singularity lies at the kink in the inner ergosurface. The reader should note that there are two “kinks” displayed in the photo.
A Kerr black hole is a type of black hole that possesses only mass and angular momentum (but not electrical charge – the third possible property of a black hole).
In other words, a Kerr black hole is an uncharged black hole that rotates about a central axis. It is named after the New Zealand mathematician Roy Kerr who, in 1963, became the first person to solve the field equations of Einstein’s general theory of relativity for a situation of this kind.
Polar slice through Kerr Space-time. Polar slice through the Kerr spacetime in Cartesian Kerr–Schild coordinates. Location of the horizons, ergosurfaces, and curvature singularity is shown for a = 0.99 m and m = 1. Note that the inner and outer horizons are ellipses in these coordinates with an overall shape similar to that of a hole-less doughnut. The inner and outer ergosurfaces are more complicated. The curvature singularity lies at the kink in the inner ergosurface. The singularity is the kink indicated by the arrows.
Kerr black holes are probably the commonest in nature, since the massive stars from which they typically form possess rotation (but no overall charge) before they collapse at the end of their lives. By the principle of conservation of angular momentum, much of this spin is then retained by the black hole following the star’s terminal collapse
A Kerr black hole has the following distinct regions:
ring singularity
inner and outer event horizons (2 event horizons)
ergosphere
static limit (the boundary between the ergosphere and normal space)
It is, conventionally, considered to be the domain of the intellectual. It is considered, by many in academia, to be unstable and not worthy of investigation.
Doughnut-shaped singularity=Passage into an Alternate World-line
“Another other more interesting result of passing through a doughnut singularity is that you travel through time by passing into another universe or world-line. Please see Penrose diagrams for Kerr Black holes or you can examine the calculations of Frank Tipler.So now the problem becomes…where do we find a doughnut-shaped singularity?”
When you pass through a doughnut shaped Kerr black hole, you can enter another dimension or world-line. Because of this you can conduct “apparent” time-travel, by proceeding in the “past” of an alternative world-line.
Looking at the Penrose-Diagram for the rotating Kerr-Black hole, the reader will clearly note that there are two regions; II and III.
This is an idealized mathematical solution to the Einstein Field Equation.
In the idealized mathematical solution, as long as r is greater than zero and less than infinity, you can extend the solution further; and r is nonzero and finite at the boundaries between the I and II regions and between the II and III regions.
The Kerr solution has only two free parameters, the hole’s mass and angular momentum, and they are the same everywhere in a given solution (i.e., everywhere in the diagram). Those parameters determine the properties of the singularities, just as they determine the properties of the space-time as a whole.
Perhaps the reader could best understand the equivalent comparisons in a “real world” adaptation of this equation. In that case, there are only two variables in regards to dimensional –travel. They are angular momentum and mass of the singularity. Depending on the values, they create the two regions, II and III. These represent SPACE and TIME. Or to put it further, it defines the TIME within a DIMENSIONAL WORLD-LINE.
In summary, if one is able to manipulate the properties of a Kerr micro-black hole singularity, one would be able to access a specific date and time on a specific world-line.
Penrose diagram for a Kerr Black Hole
What is interesting, is if you for example take the Penrose Process, you assume that this approximately describes only a part of our universe and we can come from far away with particles carrying angular momentum (if you would not, then how should this idea of taking energy from the BH (BH=”Black Hole”) work?
You send in particles which reduce the angular momentum of the BH, which is only possible if you make a distinction between the BH angular momentum and the angular momentum of the particle).
So from physics point of view, we assume we have a BH carrying angular momentum and a particle carrying a different angular momentum. As soon as the particle enters the event horizon, we don’t know whether it travels to the next universe or ends its life in one of the singularities.
If it travels to the next universe however, the angular momentum of the BH itself should not change! So the only possibility to make the Penrose Process realistic seems to me, by postulating that the particle ends its life in one of the singularities…
The reader should take note that the Penrose process requires a black hole that changes mass and angular momentum, and strictly speaking, Kerr space-time can’t model that. However, Kerr space-time still provides a very good approximation for a process that changes the hole’s mass and angular momentum by a very small amount–for example, an object massing a few tons falling into a black hole a few times the mass of the Sun.
This process can be modeled to a very good approximation by using Kerr space-time with the original mass and angular momentum of the singularity at the black hole, and then, after the object falls in, just replacing it with Kerr space-time with the new mass and angular momentum of the hole. The change is so small, and happens so fast on the time scale of the hole, that there is no need to model the detailed dynamics of the change.
But… But…
Wouldn’t the gravity still affect anyone trying to enter a different time within a different dimension? The answer is no.
There is a point where there is no gravity within the singularity.
By looking at Killing surface gravity equation for Kerr black holes, you can see that gravity would be negative at the inner horizon for an object dropped from rest at infinity with zero angular momentum (ZAMO)-
Where,
or in the case of Kerr-Newman,
for an equation of the gravity locally (i.e. taking into account relativity) for a ZAMO, the following equation applies (in the equatorial plane only) for Kerr black holes-
This equation is undefined between r + and r − due to the square root of Δ which becomes negative between r + and r − , to get some idea of where gravity becomes negative mathematically, you could set the equation so that you get the square root of the absolute value of Δ
Note if you use r + and r − in the equation (above) and multiply by the redshift
you get results equal to the first equation. For a more extended equation of the gravity locally for a Kerr black hole (i.e. beyond the equatorial plane) for a ZAMO the following applies-
It appears that gravity becomes negative somewhere near the Cauchy horizon, remains negative within the Cauchy horizon and then becomes positive again near the singularity.
Important note; The source for equations (both the the derived equations)- at http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0407004 page 10.
A Pondering Hawking = Microsingularity
“Steven Hawking proposed the existence of microsingularities that were created in the big bang. They were probably about the size of a proton and disappeared over the years due to an effect of radiation evaporation. (Yes, black holes do emit energy.)”
Time and Displacement Fields.
High Energy Physics = Microsingularity
“When I first started posting online a few months ago, I said that major breakthroughs in particle physics were around your corner.
Soon, CERN will bring their big machine on line and they will be smashing very fast and high-energy particles together. One of the more odd and potentially dangerous items produced from this increase in energy will be microsingularities a fraction of the size of an electron.”
Artificial Microsingularity = Localized Kerr Field
“Through trial and error, and although they are quite heavy, hot and capable of putting out a great deal of energy (300 – 500 megawatts), it’s discovered that these microsingularities can be electrified and captured.
It is also interesting to note at this point that electrified singularities also have two event horizons.
By spinning these various microsingularities, a localized Kerr field is created.”
Micro singularities can be electrified. If they can be electrified, they can be captured. By inducing a spin on the micro singularities (possible if electrified), one can manipulate them to create a localized (of course) Kerr Field.
Localized Kerr Field = Tipler Sinusoid
“By using two microsingularites in close proximity to each other, it is possible to create, manipulate and alter the Kerr fields to create a Tipler gravity sinusoid.
This field can be adjusted, rotated and moved in order to simulate the movement of mass through a doughnut-shaped singularity and into an alternate world line. Thus, safe time travel.”
So, thus if a micro singularity can be controlled electronically (modification of the electrical field through rotation and other electrical techniques), you can create a localized Kerr field. Having two localized Kerr fields, both under control through electrical modification, one would be able to create a “Tipler gravity sinusoid”.
The manipulation of this “Tipler gravity sinusoid” permits travel in two “planes” or “dimensions” or reality. These are in TIME and in WORLD-LINE.
The reader should be advised that the “experts” in the field think that a Tipler Sinusoid is a notable mathematical exercise, but that it probably has no practical application.
An objection to the practicality of building a Tipler cylinder was made famous by the great physicist Stephen Hawking,. He provided a proof that simply stated that according to general relativity it is impossible to build a time machine in any finite region that satisfies the weak energy condition. In other words, he means that the region contains no exotic matter with negative energy.
The Tipler cylinder, on the other hand, does not involve any negative energy. So therefore, according to Hawking, it cannot possibly work.
Hawking comments ;
"it can't be done with positive energy density everywhere! I can prove that to build a finite time machine, you need negative energy."
Hawking’s proof appears in his 1992 paper on the chronology protection conjecture.
Although the proof is distinct from the conjecture itself,. The proof shows that classical general relativity predicts a finite region containing closed time-like curves. However, these region(s) can only be created if there is a violation of the weak energy condition within that region. The conjecture predicts that closed time-like curves will prove to be impossible in a future theory of quantum gravity which replaces general relativity.
In the paper, he examines “the case that the causality violations appear in a finite region of space-time without curvature singularities” and proves that
"[t]here will be a Cauchy horizon that is compactly generated and that in general contains one or more closed null geodesics which will be incomplete. One can define geometrical quantities that measure the Lorentz boost and area increase on going round these closed null geodesics. If the causality violation developed from a noncompact initial surface, the averaged weak energy condition must be violated on the Cauchy horizon."
The “expert” has spoken.
I actually do not know what the actual mechanism is. I do know that I myself participated in time and dimensional travel. I know that it did involve world-line egress and manipulation. However, I never did study the mechanism; I was never taught the theories behind it. I did not learn how to dissemble or repair the equipment, nor did I even know WHY I was being sent on “missions” or “tasks” using this kind of technology.
So, all I can say to this is that there MUST be a way to make this device work.
It has been my experience that when an “expert” says that something cannot be done, and you have actually done it, that expert is deriving their conclusions from FAULTY presumptions.
Enough about the theory. Let’s look at the documentation that John Titor provided.
Equipment layout & Documentation
John Titor provided some documentation to help explain the John Titor Time Machine. Personally, I have some problems with the documentation. As I will describe. To me, it seems that he created some false documents that he seeded within the baseline documentation. It is unknown why he did this.
Here are elements of the user manual that he provided to the public.
A better photograph of the John Titor time machine.
John Titor provided some pages from his manual. Here are some photographs of what he has provided. In my mind there is a serious discrepancy between the cross sectional layout of the time displacement mechanism and the bulk of the drawings within the manual.
Firstly, I do believe that the cross sectional drawing came from the original operation manual…
John Titor Displacement Mechanism Schematic. This is the schematic of the mechanism that he used for dimensional travel. I believe that is this original and from the manual that came with the machine.
It is the rest of the manual that I have a problem with.
Taken as a whole, this discrepancy would be enough to rule out any authenticity of this disclosure. That is, if I wasn’t involved in MAJestic and know what I know…
First Page. One the first page, the first thing that jumps out at me is how the zero’s are made. There aren’t any slashes through the number zero. Additionally, the dates utilize a non-military format. March 21, 2034 should be written as “21MAR34”.
The thing about this disclosure, is that while I can pretty much follow and agree with just about everything that this John Titor is saying and elaborating upon. I have a difficult time reconciling the manual. To me, the lack of formal (long term) use of military typesetting formatting, and the mish-mash of hand-drawn cross-sectional schematics and utilization of commercially available computer drawing packages from the 1990’s are suggestive of fraud.
In the 1990’s, there were numerous software packages that could have produced very nice drawings of a technical nature. These included ProE (Pro Engineer), Solidworks, Catia, Unigraphics, and Autocad.
Yet, even with this “red in the face” structural defect, the idea that the loss of advanced technology and the resultant reliance on typewriters lends some credence to the story. Yet, for me, it is a hard-sell.
This page could have been easily thrown together using pre-computer technology. A photograph is of the unit is then taped in place, and xerox copies made of it. Details are then typewritten in place. This method of binding documents and manuals are from my father’s generation; 1960 and early 1970 technology.
This next page, from the appendix has really thrown me as the illustration clearly uses 1990 computer drawing software technology.
Section I from the manual. Here is where I get a little confused and start to question the narrative on the source of the manual and the contents within it.
My feelings and opinions are reinforced by the drawing on other pages such as this one…
Come on! This drawing was made with 1990 drawing sketcher technology, not even using hand sketches, or the CAD systems available during that time.
This is a nice layout and is rather easy to understand. The idea that it was made using 1990’s technology flies in the face of the narrative that it was produced in the 2030’s. Even in a post nuclear-war world, the idea that this was germane to the future seems unlikely. I would assume fully hand-drawn illustrations, or CAD generated renderings. Not the 1990-era artwork. Giving John Titor the benefit of a doubt, I can only assume that he created these drawings himself and pretended that they originated out of the manual. Why he would do this raises a big question; one that can totally destroy his narrative, or at the very least suggest that he is hiding some technical features of the device from people on this world line. Not at all a unrealistic possibility.
As such… Could John Titor be trying to hide some features of the dimensional displacement unit?
In so doing… Maybe, providing the bare minimums to help us to understand the mechanism, but hiding some key features that make his unit special? A thought worth investigating…
The John Titor Time Machine. Layout as described.
I have no problems with the last pages, aside from the systems used to generate it.
If GE made the unit, and employed illustrators to hand draw the complete unit, they certainly could have used the same illustrators to document the manual. Yes, yes, I know, that technical illustration is NOT the same as technical drawing… which is what saves the manual in my eyes, but to me… It’s all discordant.
Here is a hand drawn motorcycle engine in 3D. It was done in the same way, using the same technique as the “authentic” dimensional displacement mechanism. Which tells me that someone took a significant amount to time to draw the picture and utilized a certain level of skill to do so.
Remember, Hand drawn drawings can be very beautiful and illustrative. The use of 1990-era computer software for technical and illustrative drawings seems … well, fraudulent.
Detail drawing of a automobile connecting rod. This is a hand drawn part drawing. It is beautiful and a work of art. In a way, a very fundamental way, it is of the same ilk at the cross sectional drawing of the entire unit. Thus, it is confusing to me why there is a serious disconnect between the methodologies used to document the manual. My only conclusion is that the specific information and drawings in the manual were created by John Titor himself using available 1990 technology available to him in 1998.
Anyways…
Moving forward…
World-line Divergence
Continuing with his narrative.
“Time itself can be understood in terms of connected lines. When you go back in time, you travel on your original timeline. When you turn your singularity engine off, a new timeline is created, due to the fact that you and your time machine are now there. In other words, a new universe is created.To get back to your original line, you must travel a split second father back, and immediately throw the engine into forward without turning it off.”-John Titor
John Titor’s time machine was only accurate “to about 60 years.” He couldn’t travel much farther than that, because the world-line divergence experienced in doing so would render his destination practically unrecognizable. In Titor’s words, “the longer the unit is on past a safe divergence confidence, the ‘stranger’ the world-line becomes.”
“The C204 begins to ‘break away’ at about 60 years. This means the level of confidence drops rapidly after 60 years of travel and the world-line divergence increases. In other words, if I wanted to go back 2000 years and meet Christ, there is a better than average chance I would end up on a world-line where he was never born.”– November 4, 2000
This divergence confidence was calculated to be about 1-2%, and newer versions of the time machine were being perfected in the future to make this more accurate:
“I would equate the ‘future’ GE distortion units to their current jet engines. The first one worked great but they can always make it better. The C204 unit uses 4 cesium clocks. The C206 uses 6 cesium clocks but they use an optical system to check the oscillation frequency. This makes the world-line divergence confidence much higher.”– November 7, 2000
According to Titor, you could “imagine your path through time [as] through a cone. The farther away from the center of the cone, the more differences you will see in the world-line.”
The VGL, computer systems, and clocks worked together to measure the divergence:
“The measurement for world-line divergence is an observation variable isolated to the distortion unit. An effective analogy would be a ‘gravity radar”. The unit’s sensors take a ‘snapshot’ of the local gravity around the unit before a flight. During travel, this baseline is periodically checked to make sure there are no major changes in the environment that would cause a catastrophic mass failure (brick wall appearing from nowhere). The percentage of VGL divergence from one world-line to another is a calculated guess by the three computers that control the unit based on its starting point. It is useless in describing characteristics of individual world-lines.”– January 10, 2001
This is accomplished using gravitational density flux sensors. In many ways these are similar to the magnetic flux sensors commonly used in industry today. Here is a prototype of one that I was involved in way back when I lived in Boston.
Flux Gravity Sensor Prototype. This was a unit that I was working on for gravity sensors for <redacted>. It’s an interesting technology and is frighteningly accurate. In fact, maybe too accurate for the application that we were trying to use it with. We would have needed multiple sensors to get reliable and valid readings.
The Mechanism
The photographs of the mechanism holds some significance if you are willing to look at it with an open mind.
Firstly, the placement of the Geiger counter on the unit was not an accident. A study of the blurred and pixelated image shows that the needle seemly above zero. This would be the case whether or not the unit would be in operation. This is not something that should be considered casually. While it is easy enough to fake (you place a fake reading in the readout for the counter), it is something that should be obviously necessary if the device was truly operational.
The two micro-singularities have an adjustable grip above each one. Along with that is an indicator (pointer) at the very top of the grip showing orientation. If the radiation field and the resultant dimensional bubble were truly oblong and not spherical, this feature would be mandatory. As for each vehicle, the mechanism would have to be positioned in different orientations, and the singularities adjusted accordingly.
Here are some of the key operational elements of the John Titor “time machine”. In a way, compared to what we use at MAJestic, it is quite crude. As it relies on degrees of deviance and gravitational sensing to locate a specific world line. The other elements, that control the individual variations of a given world-line, are not evident and presented.
This is not something that is of a trivial nature. Whoever thought up this device came tot he conclusion that they needed to be manually adjustable for proper operation.
Warning tape is present to surround the singularities so that the user can avoid the high potential danger zones of radiation emission and heat. The photos show the remote control. Note that it is connected to the unit via a wire and not using wifi or bluetooth. Also note that in all pictures, an oxygen mask pouch is near the unit and near the driver seat in the vehicle.
Clocks
“My ‘time’ machine is a stationary mass, temporal displacement unit manufactured by General Electric. The unit is powered by two, top-spin, dual-positive singularities that produce a standard, off-set Tipler sinusoid.”– January 27, 2001
Titor’s C204 unit also included a set of three computer systems and four cesium clocks.
The computer systems would “work with” the VGL to plot the machine’s course, and could “record” the trip to make the traveler’s return to his or her origin world-line as easy as possible.
According to Titor, “the really interesting technology is in the computer.” Of course, he never got much more specific than that.
“The computer system is connected to the unit through an electrical bus. There are actually three computers linked together that take the same signals from the gravity senors and clocks. They use a Borda error correcting protocol that checks the integrity of the data and trips the VGL system.”
The four cesium clocks calculated seconds as their basic units of measurement, and were used to calculate the course of the journey itself and the amount of world-line divergence:
“…in a sense you do *dial in* a date and the computer system controls the distortion field. At maximum power, the unit I have is capable of traveling about 10 years an hour.”– January 31, 2001
Microsingularities
In regards to the micro-singularities, Titor said the following:
“…there are 2 singularities in the unit.
The gravity field is manipulated by three factors that affect it in distinct ways.
[1] Adding electric charge to the singularities increases the diameter of the inner event horizons.
[2] Adding mass to the singularities increases the area of gravitational influence around the singularities.
[3] Rotating and positioning the polar axis of the singularities affects and alters the gravity sinusoid.”– January 15, 2001
These singularities were housed in “an enclosed magnetic field.”
Ironically, the method of time travel itself, involving the singularities, wasn’t the real issue with constructing the machine. Instead, it was everything else:
“Miniaturizing the clocks and sensors, creating clever ways to vent x-rays and creating a computer system dependable enough to calculate the changes required to the field were the main challenges.”– January 31, 2001
Finally, the unit also had two “security systems” in place:
“One, it has a code that must be entered correctly. Second, and probably more effective now, the unit cannot be used by anyone who can’t add and subtract.”– November 15, 2000
VGL
The Time Displacement Machine in a van.
The most important piece of Titor’s time machine was the VGL, or Variable Gravity Lock system. This was the system that kept the machine (and its passenger) fixed in place in its environment, so it wouldn’t end up floating out in empty space, or melding with any other objects, when it arrived in another time.
VGL = The Variable Gravity Lock System.
“…this problem is actually the most difficult part of time travel. Although some of your assumptions about matter displacement are a bit off, the problem is real. Inside the displacement unit are a series of very sensitive clocks and gravity sensors.
This system is called the VGL (variable gravity lock).”
This is a very important aspect of this machine.
It prevents the vehicle from materializing inside of a solid object, or underwater, or high above the surface. It measures the gravity in and about the vehicle, and if the gravity does not fit a certain profile equal to “empty space”, it will avoid that world-line or time on the world-line.
“Basically, the unit takes a reading of the local gravity and samples it during the ‘trip’ in pulses.
If the gravity is too far off, the unit stops or reverses itself to the last sample period where the readings were correct. If there is some sort of failure, the unit shuts down and drops out to where ever you may be.”– November 4, 2000
Later, Titor elaborated:
“…before the unit “leaves” a world-line, it takes a base reading of the local gravity and adjusts the Tipler sinusoid to ‘lock’ into that position.
Although the temporal physics of this statement are wrong, in effect, it holds you to the ‘Earth’.
During travel, it periodically checks to see that the field has not varied. If it does, it stops and reverses course or drops out at that point. Buildings and other terrain features are avoided in the same way.”– December 10, 2000
It didn’t take much to trip the VGL, either: according to Titor, simply placing a desk where the time machine was expected to arrive would trigger the VGL and prevent it from arriving. Likewise, the unit could not be used safely while in motion:
“The unit must be stationary during operation due to the sensitivity of the gravity sensors. Any motion with an acceleration component would throw the gravity measurement from the singularities off.”– March 3, 2001
This last statement is very interesting. It could, if taken at face value disprove the concept that brought us here (the contention of this post) in the first place; that vehicles were materializing and disappearing while in motion on the roads.
The Process
“On my world-line: (A) in 2036, I was given a mission in 1975. I turn my machine on and jump to another world-line (B) in 1975 with about a 2% divergence from (A).From the very point I turn my machine off on (B), I create a new world-line just because I’m there. This line can be described as (C) and started when I got to (B).I am now doing my mission on line (C) in 1975 when I discover a very good reason to go forward on (C) and see what happened. I turn my machine on and go forward on (C) to the year 2000.When I turn it off, I start another line called (D). So from my perspective, here we are on line (D) in the year 2000. In order to go home to line (A) I must turn my machine on and go back on (D) until I reach (C) which in turn would take me back to (B) which in turn takes me to a point before I arrived on (B) then I go forward from the point I arrived on (B) back to (A).”
On his initial trip, John Titor’s time machine was placed inside a 1967 Chevrolet. On part of his return journey, he used a 1987 4WD, because “the vehicle needs a strong suspension system to handle the weight of the distortion unit,” and the vehicles needed to match their respective time periods. I’m not sure what vehicle Titor chose for the final stretch of his trip.
Titor described the journey through time as dark, like “driving under a rainbow,” followed by “driving under a tunnel and being in total black.” During the journey, “the car is off and the brake is on.” The gravity field “overtakes you very quickly,” generating a steady G force, and you “feel a tug toward the unit similar to rising quickly in an elevator.”
“The unit has a ramp up time after the destination coordinates are fed into the computers. An audible alarm and a small light start a short countdown at which point you should be secured in a seat.”– November 4, 2000
The machine gives off quite a bit of heat, and the traveler must carry extra oxygen if the trip is likely to be a long one. You hear “a slight hum as the unit operates,” and electrical crackling from static electricity. “Everything is black,” he said.
“When the machine is turned off, it is the reverse affect. It appears you are driving out from a bridge. To tell you the truth, I’m usually sleeping when the unit turns off but yes, it does appear that the world fades in from black.”– November 4, 2000
To Outside Observers
To the observers watching Titor and his machine leave in 2036, he explained the appearance of gravity distortion:
“Outside, the vehicle appears to accelerate as the light is bent around it. We have to wear sunglasses or close our eyes as this happens due to a short burst of ultraviolet radiation.”– November 4, 2000
Later, he said:
“…the time machine does not move as it goes from one world-line to another and then returns. The people watching on the original world-line would wave good-bye and watch as the machine is turned on. There would be a static discharge and the air would appear to ‘ripple’ as if it were getting denser. Then, it would stop and the machine will have appeared to have disappeared. If the machine doesn’t move its position from world-line to world-line, the observer would not see it disappear at all.”– November 20, 2000
A “large chunk of ground” would also be missing from the area surrounding the machine.
“I wouldn’t quite say it ‘scoops’ up the ground cleanly. It sort of vibrates it loose and takes it along for the ride.”– November 22, 2000
As it left, the machine would also be “quite dangerous to get too close” to, because it vents radiation and “has a very strong localized gravity field.”
According to Titor,
“from their perspective, I will only have been gone for a split second.”
Trip to the Future
When asked if Titor could take anyone else with him back to the future, he simply stated that he didn’t think anyone here would like 2036 very much.
He did, however, imply that his machine could support “about three people and equipment,” though he’d have to offload a lot of archival material to fit them in (“There are mass limits to what can be taken back,” he said). The journey to the future, itself? He explained it like this:
“For all of you interested in coming back with me to 2036, perhaps we should discuss the trip. Please be aware, the displacement unit moves through time, not space.First, we will be driving the current vehicle (Chevy truck) with the displacement unit in it to Tampa Florida. From there, we will go back to my arrival date on this world-line. Then we will have to drive to Minnesota, sell the current vehicle and get another one that would have been around in 1975.We will then move the displacement unit (500 lbs or so) into the new vehicle and go back to 1975. Once in 1975, we’ll drive back to Tampa and make the final hop to 2036. If you’d like to stay in 1975, you’re welcome to do that.It can also get quite hot and stuffy during the trip and you’ll be subjected to a 1.5 to 2 G force the entire time. You’ll also need some sort of a re-breather system or oxygen supply.”
Not exactly the romantic time travel adventure we’re all used to seeing in books and movies.
Problems
Of course, the instructions were only useful to a point, and if something went wrong with the machine, well…
“There’s a running inside joke about the technical issues. If the unit has a serious problem it’s not as if anyone can use those drawings to take the electron manifold off the singularity housing with a flat head screwdriver.”– November 25, 2000
Perspective
The technology relative to what Mr. John Titor is describing is relative to his exposure on his world-line. It is not the ONLY way to conduct world-line travel.
I have been exposed to two other ways of accomplishing this using radically different technology. Further, there is evidence that others utilize other methods including vehicles and protected and shielded individuals.
Third of multiple Posts
This post is the third of a series of posts related to John Titor. The other posts are;
Conclusion
Our reality is not what we think it is. I am not the only person who has disclosed that there are others, and other organizations that can enter and leave our reality at will. Another person who made this claim went by the name John Titor.
Only where as, I claim to be part of MAJestic and was employed as part of human sentience management, John Titor claimed to be a person who was part of another world-line. Together, we both claim that the MWI is real, and we utilize it to perform dimensional egress for our own purposes.
I claim that it is a tool that is used to manage human sentience evolution.
John Titor claims that he utilized the time variable to conduct acquisition activities in the past.
He claimed that on that world-line, the United States was fundamentally different after a rapid series of events in the late 1990’s. He claimed that he needed to perform some acquisition of certain technical devices through the use of the time-variance option in dimensional travel.
This is a multi-part post.
Take Aways
John Titor claimed to be a time traveler.
He utilized dimensional travel to move in and out of the baseline reality.
As such, he visited our world-line to acquire some technology needed on his world-line.
That technology was produced in “our” past. Thus the idea that it involved “time travel”.
MAJestic Related Posts – Training
These are posts and articles that revolve around how I was recruited for MAJestic and my training. Also discussed is the nature of secret programs. I really do not know why the organization was kept so secret. It really wasn’t because of any kind of military concern, and the technologies were way too involved for any kind of information transfer. The only conclusion that I can come to is that we were obligated to maintain secrecy at the behalf of our extraterrestrial benefactors.
MAJestic Related Posts – Our Universe
These particular posts are concerned about the universe that we are all part of. Being entangled as I was, and involved in the crazy things that I was, I was given some insight. This insight wasn’t anything super special. Rather it offered me perception along with advantage. Here, I try to impart some of that knowledge through discussion.
Enjoy.
MAJestic Related Posts – World-Line Travel
These posts are related to “reality slides”. Other more common terms are “world-line travel”, or the MWI. What people fail to grasp is that when a person has the ability to slide into a different reality (pass into a different world-line), they are able to “touch” Heaven to some extent. Here are posts that cover this topic.
While the Internet has well labeled John Titor as a hoax, when one takes a good hard look at his statements regarding life in the future in his alternative world-line, we can easily see that he was accurately predicting various trends (if not actual events – after all, it is an alternate world-line) that we are today seeing manifest… let’s look at the John Titor predictions.
Important Warning
The information within this series of posts are speculative. I have no factual information if this John Titor is what he claimed to be. It is presented herein as the only (or maybe, one of the only) sources that claim to be associated with the vehicles that pop in and out of our reality from time to time.
He was, as far as I know, never associated with MAJestic in any way.
Introduction
Over all, it is important to note that when one reads or reviews all of his statements and the dialog that he participated in, it becomes far more plausible that he was, indeed, a time and dimensional traveler.
The reader needs to listen or read the actual transcripts of what John Titor actually said. The reader needs to re-look at this through the eyes of someone who lived through 9-11, the war on terror, the Department of Homeland Security, the eight years under President Obama, and the election of Donald Trump. None of which was known to John Titor. These events all pre-dated his dialog. Therefore, let’s take a look at the John Titor predictions.
What seemed so far-fetched in 1998 seems absolutely frighteningly real now.
The reader must take special note that the dialog with Mr. John Titor occurred prior to 9-11. Before that there wasn’t any “War on Terror”, no hijackings of planes to crash into buildings, the threat of WMD’s and the Arab “spring” not only did not occur yet, but no one could even conceive of them occurring.
The Department of Homeland Security did not exist, and massive government surveillance was beyond the conception of most Americans.
Most Americans never heard of the NSA.
Google did not exist. To research anything you had to manually track down the sites through Yahoo! or AOL.
No one knew who Snowden was, the Black Lives Matter movement, or the Antifa groups sponsored by George Soros.
Yet, John Titor predicted all this in our future world-line. Quite the coincidence.
It is precisely this variance from what we know has transpired now, that lends credence to the words penned by this individual.
A very good narrative of these words is available on a series of You-Tube videos provided below. This is the “Realist News” website on You-tube. Here the investigator looks at the writings from the point of view of someone from 2000 and 2001. This can save the reader the energy from reading the entire dialog on their own.
This is most especially true as most of the dialog that John Titor was involved in has since disappeared from the internet since. Therefore, the only thing that most can find are just an array of websites and videos that typically disparage his contention that he was a time traveler.
Here, the You-Tube blogger at “Realist News” goes through the discourse between the John Titor individual and discusses the contents relative to what we knew in 2016. He takes a look at the John Titor predictions. Contrary to much of what you can locate on the Internet, this blogger makes a point that the predictive trends of an alternative world line similarly coincide with that of our time line.
This blogger makes a point that the predictive trends of an alternative world line similarly coincide with that of our time line.
While many of the statements that John Titor made in 2000 seemed outlandish at that time, subsequent events have actually foretold the active trends, if not the actual events.
A blogger discusses John Titor’s predictions 15 years later.
Part 1 – 13:00 “No, the ice caps are not melting”
There is no such thing as “Global Warming” in 2036. He did not say that it was a hoax set up by the government to fund various black initiatives. All he stated was that he saw no evidence at all for any kind of climate change in 2036. The way that it is worded, however does imply a disparagement of the Global Warming narrative.
Part 1 – 14:30 “I am more susceptible to colds”
The viral agents in this time line are different than what he is accustomed to. It is a curious statement.
Part 1 – 15:10 “The day of worship is Saturday”
Religion is a serious issue after global nuclear conflict, and how it is conducted and the belief structures imposed are quite different. Islam is not mentioned, even though President Obama stated that it was a fundamental part of the fabric of the United States. Of course,prior to 9-11 Americans rarely even thought about Muslims or the Islamic religion. Then, when Obama got elected, we ended up having Islam shoved down our collective throats.
Part 1 – 15:59 “When I was 13, I was a soldier”
He claimed that he fought during the American second civil war. That it was a war of rural countryside Americans against the urban elites and the city dwellers. This conflict continued for ten years and he often had to hide from the “Federal Police” (the DHS). This ended with the advent of World War III, when Russia ignited a nuclear exchange against American cities.
A nuclear exchange cut the Second American civil war short. The vast numbers of the urban elites, the oligarchy and their minions were all devastated during the nuclear exchange.
Part 1 – 16:37 He says that he is with his parents they live in a large “tree-house”.
Part 1 – 16:54 “No new information on UFO’s and aliens”
He knew nothing about this subject, though he suggests that UFO’s might be time machines from far in the future. This pretty much apparently explains why many UFO enthusiasts believe that UFO’s might be time travelers from the future. Oh BTW. Some might be, but many are not.
Part 1 – 17:51 “What we did NOT do was create more GMO seeds. What were people thinking?”
The reader must remember that this statement was made in 1998, almost 15 years before the big backlash against GMO’s. John Titor PREDICTED the anti-GMO movement.
Part 1 – 20:09 He likes the simple things like hugging his mother and father.
Part 1 – 21:45 “The Constitution was changed after the war”
Notice his comments. This was in 1998, and he wished he would have brought back to the past a copy of the new Constitution. This is a kind of statement that we would see after the 2016 election, not in 1998. John Titor PREDICTED that Americans would want to alter and change the Constitution.
Part 1 – 24:00 There are seven other time travelers in his unit.
Part 1 – 24:24 “Right now most of our practical (time and dimensional travel) missions are from 1960 to 1980”
The further back in the past one goes the greater the divergence, and the greater the difficulty in returning home to a similar world line to the one you left. Most missions were along close world lines that differed only in time and minor event sequences.
The John Titor mission was set in 1974. The 1998 (to 2001) visit was for personal reasons.
Part 1 – 24:37 The accuracy of the machine decreases sharply the farther back in time (or in the future) you go.
The blogger’s explanation about wanting to travel back in time to kill Hitler, but Hitler not even being on the time line isn’t really an accurate appraisal of what John Titor stated.
The truth is that there will be time lines with Hitler; it’s just the accuracy of you landing on that time line decreases. This is because that’s over 75 years in the past.
Your machine may read a 2% divergence, but it’s accuracy is compromised.
The result being is that you would actually land in a world-line that is 30% divergent instead of 3%, even though that is what your instruments would state.
Of course, there is a way around this. You go back in stages. You go back in 30 year increments, land and take a detailed reading and then continue. Then, on your return journey, you retrace your steps. Like placing “breadcrumbs” to find your way back.
Part 1 – 25:00 A message for the world leaders in government. “Revel in your confidence today, because you will not win tomorrow.”
He possessed a very low opinion of the United States government, and the general American population. He was convinced that America would eventually go through a civil war and those in power would get their comeuppance.
In order for American citizens to take control of their government, two things must occur. Firstly, the secret societies that operate in Washington DC must be eliminated. This “swamp” must be drained. Secondly, the American government must put the needs and interests of American first before everything else. This goes in direct opposition of what the global oligarchs desire.
Unfortunately that did not happen. Without Y2K instigating an acceleration of the backlash against the American oligarchy, the “deep state” became entrenched. The American empire grew to a point where today (2018) we are fighting seven different nations all around the globe.
Part 1 – 29:00 “Entertainment is more decentralized, and more people produce their own shows”
Written in 2000! No one could understand this statement at all. Why would people ever want to produce their own shows? Why not watch television? You-Tube wasn’t even created until 2005. John Titor PREDICTED this trend accurately.
Part 1 – 32:46 “There are also no income taxes.”
Part 1 – 33:30 “There is some debate in changing the number of stars on the flag from 50 to 5.”
Part 1 – 37:45 (schools today) “are no longer a political indoctrination system.”
Remember this statement was made nearly a decade before President Obama came to office. John Titor PREDICTED the reorientation of the Department of Education toward social polarization, and indoctrination by President Obama.
Published on Aug 28, 2013. The blogger continues reading the dialog between John Titor and various other bloggers. It is an interesting exchange. It is important for the reader to note that the actual dialog between John Titor and the other bloggers are no longer available on the Internet. The dialog is gone.
Part 2 – 0:25 Blogger states that he should hold on to the dialog just in case it disappears off the internet. In which case it actually did disappear.
Part 2 – 1:45 “There was an armed resistance (from the cities). We killed most of them by 2020.”
He is referring to most of the urban elite and the urban uneducated.
The BLM and Antifa became violent and vocal during the Obama presidency when enormous sums of money from the progressives in the American “deep state” and foreign agents such as George Soros pumped money towards their disruptive efforts.
Part 2 – 3:10 Question: “Why do you think that our future will be like your future?” Answer: “Because our world-lines are so similar.”
He landed on our world-line at a 1-2% divergence. Upon arrival the divergence immediately grew. Any mass communication efforts that reached large groups of people, such as using the internet, affected the thoughts of large bodies of people. This amplified the divergence.
While he arrived on our world-line at a small divergence of 1-2%, he left in 2001 leaving a far larger divergence. One that was the result of three years of active internet communication on a public forum.
Part 2 – 3:43 “This world-line and my own are almost exactly alike.”
But, we know that this is not really true, because we did not have a civil war, and a nuclear war. So they cannot be alike. He constantly stated that there was a 1 to 2% divergence. Yet, later he admitted to betting involved in prevention of the Y2K problem and that prevented a major period of civil unrest, and thus altered our world line. I suspect that it went from 2% divergence to something over 10%.
Part 2 – 6:05 “Since the concept of nationally subsidized welfare is not supported in my world-line, most people here would not like it.”
This statement would not have meant so much in the year 2000 as it does today.
Part 2 – 7:30 He tells his parents in the 2000 world-line to move to Omaha Nebraska because that is where the new capital will be, and it is a safe rural farming community.
Part 2 – 8:18 Of the other 7 time travelers, three are on other missions at the time John Titor went on his mission. He did not know what their missions were, but he assumed that they would be similar to his in some way.
Part 2 – 12:11 “There were no Olympics after 2004.” Meaning of course, that after World War III, the Olympics stopped.
Part 2 – 13:45 There are 10 type C204 time machines, and 20 type C206 time machines.
Part 2 – 14:28 The Mad-Cow Disease does not exist in his world-line.
The reader should remember that at the time of John Titor, the search engines were rather primitive. The biggest search engine of the day was Yahoo!
Google was just getting started. Google was founded in 1998, but it really didn’t become popular until the mid 2000’s. Long after John Titor got up and left. The scope of the subjects that John Titor covered is quite broad when placed in the context of a lack of adequate computer source and searching engines.
Part 2 – 14:30 “It’s pretty easy for you to dismiss the Middle East, but pretty soon it will be a no armer and a no legger.”
Written in 2000 before 9-11 and the subsequent rise in the Arab world of Islamic militants. John Titor PREDICTED the various conflicts in the Middle East.
Part 2 – 17:40 Most people blamed the “government organizations” for the war. Fast forward to 2017, where one the largest obstacles to meaningful change is the entrenched federal bureaucracy. Curious that John Titor would say “government organizations” and not “the government”. He actually predicted this problem.
Part 2 – 20:50 “When the civil war broke out most decided to stay in the cities and lose most of their civil rights in the guise of security…”
(Written in 2000, before 9-11, the DHS, the NSA, Snowden and Wikileaks. All of which were unheard of at that time. John Titor PREDICTED all the post-911 anti-terrorism legislation.)
Currently, it is certainly looking like a civil war will break out. Go here; http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/the-simple-reason-why-a-second-american-civil-war-may-be-inevitable_04212017 From the article;
“However, something has changed. You can feel it in the air. Our nation has clearly never been this divided since the Civil War. A lot of people noticed it after the last election, but the truth is that these divisions have been deepening for decades, and they’re just now reaching a very noticeable breaking point. That’s obvious enough when you look at how the left and the right have been going at each other. It used to be a war of words, but it’s turning into something very dark.
Consider what happened in Berkeley after Trump supporters and counter protesters clashed for the third time. 21 people were arrested and 11 were injured (that we know of), six of who had to be taken to the hospital. At least one person was stabbed. The police confiscated confiscated knives, stun guns, and poles. One Trump supporter admitted to being surrounded, pepper sprayed, and beaten with sticks by a mob of “protesters.”
But wait, that’s not the dark part. After these groups clashed, the leftist protesters took to Reddit and admitted that they lost this particular battle (I can’t believe I’m using the word “battle” to describe it), and that it was time for them to attain more combat training and better weapons, including firearms.
Do you see what’s going on here? Conservative demonstrations, which used to be placid affairs (remember the Tea Party protests?) are now turning violent as conservatives grow tired of restraining themselves, and are no longer afraid to hit back. Liberal demonstrators are responding by ratcheting up the level of force that they’re going to bring to the next street battle. It’s a tit for tat that keeps escalating, and I shudder to think of where it’s going to end up.
Honestly, I think we’re in the early stages of a second civil war. I can’t say what it’ll look like precisely, but I can tell you that our nation is on this path, and it’s not clear how we can get off of it. In fact, I fear that it may be inevitable, and there’s a very simple reason why.”
As an interesting aside, as of the second quarter of 2017, the American people are starting to recognize that a civil war is in process. The date of 2017 is about 4 years later than the professed civil war start of 2013 that John Titor spoke of. Listen and read here.
Part 2 – 21:20 “avoiding conflict with the federal police” (The Department of Homeland Security the DHS = the “federal Police”. Which was established by George Bush after 9-11. John Titor PREDICTED the Department of Homeland Security.)
Part 2 – 22:30 “The US cities were attacked by Russia who was our enemy.” In other words, the cities had become the de facto home of the enemies of the United States, and Russia attacked them.
Amazing stuff after seeing the 2016 election of Donald Trump and the concentration of riots originating out of the cities with the presumptive totalitarian behavior of the BLM and their associative progressive minions. In his own way John Titor PREDICTED the militant Soros funded black-clad militant movement after the 2016 election.
Then, in 18MAY17, the famous Conservative commentator Rush Limbaugh discusses how the president of Russia, Putin openly warns the urban elite, the media, and the 1% against going against the will of the American people. Listen to it here.
Part 2 – 24:50 “The divergence percentage can be more accurate with more sensitive sensors and clocks”
Part 2 – 26:30 Yes, No and Maybe. How the computer figures out the variance divergence.
Part 2 – 28:15 “I thought owning a handgun was legal according to the Constitution”.
Part 2 – 28:17 Korea, Taiwan and Japan joined together prior to the world war.
Part 2 – 29:00 Media portrayal of the news.
Part 2 – 31:00 Good vrs. Bad is an illusion that has no worth to God.
WOW, WOW, WOW !!! this guy is describing an economy that uses sound money: Bitcoin ("it`s all distributed over the web" - Distributed consensus, Blockchain?)-Danilo BF
Part 2 – 33:00 “When the television uses the word ‘enemy’ they are talking about YOU.”
The federal police has been trained to treat patriots as threats to the government.
Part 2 – 35:20 You-Tube was not around when he wrote about the decline of big media and the rise of DIY media outlets.
Part 2 – 40:10 Canada is full of very dangerous and ruthless people.
Part 2 – 42:45 “There are no Republicans or Democrats to speak of.”
John Titor predicted the fall of both the Republican and Democrat parties in 2016. After all, the number one favored Democrat candidate in 2016 was Bernie Sanders who was an Independent, not a Democrat. Donald Trump was not a Conservative Republican he was and still is a nationalist.
This is a good enough location than anywhere else to place the words penned by Mr. Charlie Daniels in an open letter to all the American politicians.
“…And in your self-righteous zeal to toe the party line, you have completely forgotten about we the people and the welfare of the nation you're supposed to be serving.It's become a game with you people. You've all turned into tattletales, petulant pubescent third graders, all bent on becoming teacher’s pet and doing anything it takes to garner a few more votes.You'd rather deprive the nation of a benefit than to let the other party get the credit for passing it. There is no loyalty among you, and you will run away from a colleague who does something unpopular before the ink on the defaming article has even dried.You'd give citizenship to aardvarks if they could vote and say anything, accuracy and honesty be damned, and kiss a flatulent skunk’s posterior before you'd do or say anything that would make the other party look good.I sometimes wonder how you see yourselves, as a knight on a white horse saving the nation, or as the rest of us see you, as a poorly-mounted, impotent Don Quixote charging dilapidated windmills in rusty armor.And I wonder if any of you realize how very out of touch with what’s actually happening in the real world you are and how much that world has changed since you moved into your ivory tower, back when bell bottoms were in style.I truly believe that when our forefathers designed our political system they never made allowances for career politicians. I believe the system was designed for a citizen politician to serve a term or two and then vacate the seat so somebody who actually knows what's happening in the streets now can come in with a fresh opinion and without 20 or 30 years of partisan political baggage and obligations.”-Charlie Daniels written in “An Open Letter to Politicians: You Have Completely Forgotten About We the People” penned April 21, 2017.
Part 2 – 51:34 “The law is only as good as the willingness to apply it swiftly and evenly.”
Part 2 – 52:35 “China will put a man in orbit, I wouldn’t be surprised if they do that soon.”
John Titor PREDICTED the first manned space flight by China. Though honestly, at that time, China was considered to be an emerging third world nation. This was DECADES before Americans started to find their store shelves stuffed with products made in China. The idea that China would have manned spaceflight was considered a joke.
The Chinese launching rockets and orbiting in space was considered a joke that no one took seriously. At that time, China produced very cheap products that were just then getting placed on American shelves.
Part 2 – 53:16 Did John Titor give incorrect dates for the civil war and the world war because it might jeopardize his presence in this time line? Maybe the divergence is 1 to 2% like he stated, but the dates of the events are actually wrong.
The blogger suggests this because he questions what actually occurred did not match all the conflicts that John Titor predicted. Perhaps the events he mentions will actually still occur, only they will actually occur 10 years later.
Maybe, instead of a civil war in 2013, there is one in 2023? Nuclear war in 2025, instead of 2015.
Part 2 – 47:00 Hawaii will probably avoid much of the conflict, but it is dependent on the mainland for food. Therefore, there would be strife on any small island. Interesting that he should make this statement. Most people, by far, would assume that an island would be the best place to “ride out” world war III. But John Titor says differently. He says that the number one cause of death was starvation, and since most food to the island is imported, it would seem that it would not be a desirable location to hide.
“I believe john titor was accurate and made an error on the date of the civil war. the riots were supposed to start in 2004 leading to a civil war, i think he meant 2014. do you know the exact date of world war one or the civil war? you may entirely make a ten year mistake, remember this was his past, and he did lie and was contradictory about a lot, i truly believe he meant 2014, look at ferguson, he said these things would begin in 04 and get worse and worse.”-Frank Nagy
Part 2 – 54:40 A lot of smoke and haze that obscures the sun. Implies a substantial lack of electricity and reliance on fossil fuels, and wood.
Part 2 – 1:08:32 “One of the Great Pyramids was severely damaged.”
Part 3 – 3:14 “There is a civil war in the United States that starts in 2005.”
Part 3 – 3:30 “A nuclear war against the federal empire and the cities occurred in 2015, and thus we (in the countryside) won.”
All of the major American cities were wiped out by cluster of three MIRV nuclear warheads spread out for maximum damage.
The implication is that the civil war was not going well for the “deplorables” in the militias. The people in the countryside were losing, and the DHS (the Federal Police) were winning with all the advantages that we know about today.
However, the ignition of the nuclear war incinerated the cities and pretty much wiped out the oligarchy and their supporting minions and followers.
Even though the American second civil war was not going well for the middle states, a nuclear conflagration initiated by Russia changed the balance of power to the rural areas. Never the less the DHS (Federal Police) still operated, and a long period of “mop up” activities were initialized.
Part 3 – 5:45 The visit to 1999 through 2001 was for personal reasons. His actual mission was to obtain the computer back in 1975.
Part 3 – 6:45 Influence on the Y2K…?
Part 3 – 9:00 Jacksonville, Florida was vaporized by a nuclear weapon. He worked out of a military base in Tampa. That assumes that Tampa must not have been hit by a nuclear strike.
Russian cruse missile threat on the American Eastern seaboard. The Russians no longer need to rely upon ICBM with MIRV warheads to strike american cities. They can utilize sub-launched precise cruise missile technology armed with high-yield nuclear warheads.
Russian technology is quite advanced, and they have the ability to launch both SLBM and sub launched cruise missiles at a comfortable range undetected beneath the sea.
Part 3 – 9:45 “Let me let you in on a little secret. No one likes you in the future. This time period is looked upon as a lazy, self-centered, civilly ignorant sheep.”
No one in the year 2000 had any concept of just how ignorant of civics the nation had become after the purging of civics lessons from schools. Sure we were aware of an occasional rewriting of history, however the knowledge of what it is today was beyond our comprehension at that time.
Part 3 – 11:45 Imagine that you are a Jew and could travel back in time to Germany at the time of the rise of Hitler in the early 1930’s. You know what the future would be. Yet, you see all around you, the ignorant masses of people who continue their behaviors in complete ignorance in what it will eventually lead towards.
When Hitler came to power, he was just “another” political personage. Slowly at first, people started to follow him. He became populist, and it became a cultural fad to follow him and salute him.
Part 3 – 13:25 Question: Which parts of the United States are safe from the conflict of Civil war, and Nuclear war? Answer: Take a close look at the county by county voting maps of the last election.
2016 Election Results by County
Part 3 – 14:00 Prediction of Taser deaths by police using nonlethal weapons.
John Titor PREDICTION of the deaths by the American police using non-lethal weapons.
Part 3 – 16:15 “Russia’s enemy is not you the people. Russia’s enemy is the United States government.”
Part 3 – 16:45 Statements hint at the deterioration of the Middle East as a negative influence on global stability.
Part 3 – 18:15 Perhaps John Titor got involved in the Y2K issue, and was not wholly involved “on a personal level” for his visit here.
In so doing, perhaps he managed to make the “big event” in his world-line, not occur in ours, and thus completely disrupted the world-line for us. Thus, instead of civil war in 2005, we elected Obama in 2008 and totally changed our world-line into something other than what it should have been at the time John Titor landed in 1999.
Part 3 – 22:00 Tie-in to the President Obama and DHS action against 10th Amendment rights individuals back in 2013.
Part 3 – 24:54 “The year 2008 was a general time when everyone realized that the world they thought they lived in was over.”
Look at what happened, with the banker bailout, and the collapse of various financial markets. Just imagine what would have happened if this came right on the coattails of wide spread civil distress in 2004 due to a Y2K snap in 2001.
Part 3 – 29:00 Yes, he could have changed this world-line. However, he is not confident that things have changed enough for us to avoid the conflict. He was wrong, apparently. My guess is that he failed to take into account how many people would be influenced by his internet presence. At the time, maybe a few hundred. Over the last ten years and longer, that number exploded exponentially.
Part 3 – 29:16 “You need to consider that a world without war is far less desirable in the long run.”
Obama has given away more money, more things, and more cash than any other president. The only problem is that it wasn’t his money to give away. It was yours.
Part 3 – 34:13 When the war comes it will be blatantly obvious to everyone in the nation that it will occur. The shocking thing was that so many people decided to stay in the very cities where they knew the bombs would be dropped.
Part 3 – 37:30 The president at the time of the Civil War tried to be another Lincoln and hold the country together, but many of the government policies drove a wedge in the civil rights of Americans and created divisions that were irreconcilable. The President in 2009 was concerned ONLY in keeping his power base. (Stated with eerily accuracy in 2000.)
Part 3 – 38:10 One of the things that John Titor alluded to was that the United States president elected in 2008 might be a man or a woman. Yet, back in the year 2000 it was inconceivable that a woman would even consider running for President. Yet, we know now that Hillary Clinton did do exactly that and ran for President in 2008. It seems strange today, after the Hollywood blitz of Madam President Movies all in support of a Hillary Clinton Presidency. But at that time it was unknown.
John Titor PREDICTED that a woman would be considered to be President.)
Bernie Sanders rally and a Hillary CLinton rally during the same month. Yet, here we have John Titor predicting that there would be a woman candidate for president. He did this back in 1998.
Part 3 – 42:30 The people with the most to lose would be the most untrustworthy when the world changes.
Part 3 – 43:10 “We have a saying here. Safe is anywhere a hungry person cannot walk in three days.”
This is a unique saying that belies experience and would typically not be the kind of thing that a hoaxer would make up off the cuff.
Part 3 – 47:15 Most people will starve, the rest will die of disease, followed by bullet wounds and radiation. In that order.
Part 3 – 52:48 “The conflict was not about taking and holding ground, it was about order and rights… …they were betting that people wanted security over freedom and they were wrong.”
This statement was made in 2000, long before the NSA and all the erosion’s on American freedoms.
Part 3 – 54:38 “The cities were not isolated because of them, they were isolated because of us (the people in the “red states” or countryside.)”
Part 3 – 1:00:00 Discussing what it is like to kill a man relative to their ability to change future events. It seems far too detailed and deep for someone to state relative to a general hoax.
Part 3 – 1:10:00 John discusses various verification’s on the capabilities of the IBM computer that he has been sent back to obtain.
Part 3 – 1:18:00 John questions why go back to retrieve an old computer on a time travel mission, but he reasons that that was his orders and job so he just went and conducted his task.
Part 4 – 3:10 Influence of gravitational alignments and their significance in his return to his world-line world-time.
Part 4 – 9:05 Mentions CERN in 1998 which was a decade before this project went live in 2008. How did he know? (PREDICTION.)
Part 4 – 10:00 How time travel works, and the odd situations that occur whenever you operate the device.
Part 4 – 10:50 “the oddest one was seeing a skyscraper that don’t exist in New York.”
(PREDICTION. Hum. How did he know about the 9-11 WTC destruction?)
Part 4 – 11:24 John Titor confirms that he DID get involved in the Y2K issue so that our world line would not experience the same problems that his world line experienced.
Part 4 – 13:40 Arrived in the summer of 1998 and discusses some things of importance with Art Bell via fax. He includes some photos and schematics of the time travel equipment. The most interesting picture was the laser light actually curving in a photograph. This was made in 1998 and it does not have indications of Photoshop manipulation.
Part 4 – 18:35 There are no absolutes. It’s a universe of potentials.
Part 4 – 24:00 Mother gets on Art Bell show and says how and why she believed that John Titor was her son. The mother said that there was something about a mother and her child that KNOWS the relationship between the two.
He arrived in 1999 and stayed until 2001.
Just the exact period of time that the Y2K bug was supposed to cause all sorts of computer breakdowns and initiated a period of civil unrest. Perhaps, he wanted to use this period of time to spend with his folk before the unrest occurred, and in the process inadvertently caused a Y2K repair action. Through his action, inadvertent or not, the Y2K bug was thwarted and the period of upheaval and civil unrest was avoided. He confirmed in the dialog of Part 4 at 11:24 that he did indeed get involved with preventing the Y2K fiasco that caused such havoc in his world line.
Since this period of unrest was avoided, would it not be possible that subsequent events, all tied to the Y2K unrest were also avoided. Thus, he could have changed our future and altered this world-line. Because civil war did not start in 2005. Nuclear war did not start in 2015. Perhaps his alteration of the world-line has altered ours, but not solved the core problems inherent with our behaviors and our policies. Perhaps these events are still before us, only that they will only get worse?
This issue is discussed on REALIST NEWS – The John Titor Time Traveler Story Part 3 of 4 at part 3 at 18:15.
Dates of Contention
John Titor gave very specific dates regarding a series of events in our near future.
These dates came and passed without anything regarding his stated conflicts occurring. However, there are those that suggest that he actually lied about the dates. That the dates are actually ten years later, or alternatively the actual dates changed because he altered our time world-line.
Or, more plausible, is that he did not remember the dates correctly.
How many readers know the actual dates regarding the American civil war, or the start of hostilities in Vietnam, or how about the first or second gulf war? I don’t, though I think I could come up with a reasonable guess. These ideas are interesting, and for purposes of enjoyment, I have placed them assuming a ten year buffer. Please see below.
EVENT
JOHN TITOR DATE
+10 YEARS
REVISED DATE
Seeds started
2004 – 2005 (1)
+10
2014 – 2015
Start of conflicts
2008
+10
2018 (2)
Start of shootings
2010
+10
2020
Nuclear exchange
2013
+10
2023
The reader should note that if one were to follow the revised dates (assuming a ten year “adjustment” to the dates and figures provided by John Titor) that the result closely correlates with the nursery management considerations in the crisis (fourth Turning) in accordance with the Strauss-Howe Generational Theory
Note 1; Interesting quote published in the second quarter of 2017;
“For a time now, I stated that World War III began on the Morning of September 11, 2001. War has been raging ever since.
I also stated the Second American Civil War would begin on or before January 20, 2017. If you're starting to get this uneasy feeling about what's going on in Washington and other cities around America, and fearing some kind of flashpoint coming soon, let me explain it to you...
... we are in midst of the Second Civil War. And this is only the beginning.”
-http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3525528/posts
Continued under a new name and some time after the first four parts were produced;
Part 5 – 3:31 The police actually got away with harming an American citizen, filming it, and getting off with no negative consequences. Perhaps John Titor was right, because these are exactly the kinds of things that he stated would lead up to the American civil war.
Part 5 – 4:50 Our enemy was the global banking elite which were all centered in the cities.
Part 5 – 7:30 It is now Russia that is stopping the globalists, the New World Order people and the global Banking Elite.
This is exactly the same PREDICTION that John Titor made back in 1998. Maybe he was just an internet troll, but for a troll, he certainly was able to predict the global trends quite accurately.
Part 5 – 9:12 REALIST NEWS uses the term “Fake News” years before the 2017 election where everyone is decrying “Fake News”.
Part 5 – 11:05 When Russia nukes our cities, they are killing off our citizen’s enemies. Our enemies are internal, not external. (According to John Titor, the nukes were accurate and relatively “clean” and used in clusters of three.)
Part 5 – 15:00 John Titor said that he would prefer to have lived the live after World War III than a peaceful solution. The only way to fix the issues is to start fresh.
He has altered our World-Line through action
There is every evidence that he stated that he came for personal reasons.
He knew that the world line (that is ours) is very similar to his world line. He claimed only a 1-2% divergence. Because of that, he wanted to warn his parents to move to a safe area, as well as to meet with his parents. Apparently the war occurred when he was a young boy, and his parents died while he was still young. Maybe this was his way to protect them in some way, as well as to spend some time with them on a personal level.
Second of multiple Posts
This post is the second of a series of posts related to John Titor. The other posts are;
Conclusion
Our reality is not what we think it is. I am not the only person who has disclosed that there are others, and other organizations that can enter and leave our reality at will. Another person who made this claim went by the name John Titor.
Only where as, I claim to be part of MAJestic and was employed as part of human sentience management, John Titor claimed to be a person who was part of another world-line. Together, we both claim that the MWI is real, and we utilize it to perform dimensional egress for our own purposes.
I claim that it is a tool that is used to manage human sentience evolution.
John Titor claims that he utilized the time variable to conduct acquisition activities in the past.
He claimed that on that world-line, the United States was fundamentally different after a rapid series of events in the late 1990’s. He claimed that he needed to perform some acquisition of certain technical devices through the use of the time-variance option in dimensional travel.
This is a multi-part post.
Take Aways
John Titor claimed to be a time traveler.
He utilized dimensional travel to move in and out of the baseline reality.
As such, he visited our world-line to acquire some technology needed on his world-line.
That technology was produced in “our” past. Thus the idea that it involved “time travel”.
MAJestic Related Posts – Training
These are posts and articles that revolve around how I was recruited for MAJestic and my training. Also discussed is the nature of secret programs. I really do not know why the organization was kept so secret. It really wasn’t because of any kind of military concern, and the technologies were way too involved for any kind of information transfer. The only conclusion that I can come to is that we were obligated to maintain secrecy at the behalf of our extraterrestrial benefactors.
MAJestic Related Posts – Our Universe
These particular posts are concerned about the universe that we are all part of. Being entangled as I was, and involved in the crazy things that I was, I was given some insight. This insight wasn’t anything super special. Rather it offered me perception along with advantage. Here, I try to impart some of that knowledge through discussion.
Enjoy.
MAJestic Related Posts – World-Line Travel
These posts are related to “reality slides”. Other more common terms are “world-line travel”, or the MWI. What people fail to grasp is that when a person has the ability to slide into a different reality (pass into a different world-line), they are able to “touch” Heaven to some extent. Here are posts that cover this topic.
John Titor Related Posts
Another person, collectively known by the identity of “John Titor” claimed to utilize world-line (MWI egress) travel to collect artifacts from the past. He is an interesting subject to discuss. Here we have multiple posts in this regard.
Let’s look at an admitted “time traveler”; a Mr. John Titor. Who claimed to utilize dimensional-egress to conduct apparent “time travel” activities to acquire and retrieve information and artifices from history.
Yes. He made claims to being a “time traveler”.
Important Warning
The information within this series of posts are speculative. I have no factual information if this John Titor is what he claimed to be. It is presented herein as the only (or maybe, one of the only) sources that claim to be associated with the vehicles that pop in and out of our reality from time to time.
He was, as far as I know, never associated with MAJestic in any way.
Introduction
So, let’s take a step backward.
Yes, let’s take a step backward and just imagine that you (the reader) had no idea of my experiences. You did not read what I wrote. If you did, you did not understand it, nor believe it. As such, you just dismissed it as garbage. Let’s work from that understanding; that everything that I have written and narrated, is just nonsense.
An automat popular on other world-lines. While it enjoyed a brief and short-lived period of success on our world-line, it was eventually displaced by fast-food franchises. Yet, in the other world-lines that I have been familiar with, it is still popular and a part of the American culture.
From the reader’s point of view; it is all just nonsense. It holds as much importance as the average length of a giraffes neck. It holds as much meaning and significance as the number of pencils that the Lusaka elementary school system goes through in a year. It holds as much relative importance to you, the reader as the number of yellow-sticky papers remaining on your desk.
It is nonsense because it has no bearing on your, the reader’s, reality.
But, what if it did? What if I composed a narrative that could become personal to your own personal life? What would it look like?
There are people that pop into our reality, and exit it. I have shown numerous examples of this. There are vehicles that drive into our reality, and then exit it, just as readily. I have shown examples of this as well.
With that in mind, let’s consider some questions. What are those disappearing vehicles and appearing people? How do they fit into the “grand scheme” of things?
Investigate the debunked “Hoaxes”. I think that the reader should just put a “hold” on all those well-paid “experts” who you let define what your reality is. Turn off CNN, MSNBC and WaPo. The world is much bigger than what they allow you to see. Open up your eyes, and be open to the ideas herein. Yes. OMG. Close our mouth and hush now.
One of the aspects that we looked at involved the use of vehicles to enter and leave our reality. They are not using the transport portal like I used in the Navy. They are doing something else altogether.
I have posts that show that people are doing this using walk-through technology.
I have posts that show that people are doing this with vehicles.
As well as..
Now consider that, for a second. If there are people entering and leaving our reality, and they are using an automobile as the vehicle to do so, then could there be some kind of disclosure that might present more information on this phenomenon? And, if so, then what would that disclosure looks like?
"Theories have four stages of acceptance:
i) this is worthless nonsense;
ii) this is an interesting, but perverse, point of view;
iii) this is true, but quite unimportant;
iv) I always said so.
- J.B.S. Haldane, 1963
Well there is just such a disclosure.
There really is. However, it is a very difficult one to believe as it sounds so absolutely outlandish that it “must” be a hoax. (Not to mention that it has been “disproven” by Snopes (LOL), and is considered by many (people, children, and possibly animals) to be a hoax.)
Well, then, isn’t that a basic criterion for use to start from? We must look at what “just can’t possibly be” to study what actually is.
Dear readers, let me present the John Titor story.
This adventure down the “rabbit hole” begins in the middle of the Summer of 1998.
The First Fax
This is the first fax sent from John Titor to Art Bell on July 29, 1998;
“Dear Art,I had to fax when I heard other time travelers calling in from any time past the year 2500 AD. Please let me explain.Time travel was invented in 2034. Off-shoots of certain successful fusion reactor research allowed scientists at CERN to produce the world’s first contained singularity engine. The basic design involves rotating singularities inside a magnetic field. By altering the speed and direction of rotation, you can travel both forward and backward in time.Time itself can be understood in terms of connected lines. When you go back in time, you travel on your original timeline. When you turn your singularity engine off, a new timeline is created, due to the fact that you and your time machine are now there. In other words, a new universe is created.To get back to your original line, you must travel a split second father back, and immediately throw the engine into forward without turning it off.Some interesting outcomes of this are:One, you meet yourself. I have done it often, even taken a younger version of myself along for a few rides before returning myself to the new timeline and going back to mine.Two, you can alter history in the new universe that you have just created. Most of the time, the changes are subtle. Sometimes, I’ll notice car models that don’t exist, or books that come out late.The oldest one was a skyscraper that wasn’t built in a near favorite store of mine in New York.Interestingly, when you travel in time, you must compensate for the orbit of the earth. Since the time machine doesn’t move, you have to adjust the engines so you remain on the planet when you turn it off. Unfortunately, it was also discovered that anyone going forward in time, from my 2036, hit a brick wall in the year 2564.Everyone who has ever been there has reported that nothing exists. When the machine is turned off, you find yourself surrounded by blackness and silence.Now, most time travelers are trying to find out where the line went bad by going into the past, creating a new universe, and proceeding forward to see if the same thing results in 2564. It appears the line went bad around the year 2000. I’m here now, in this time, to test a few theories of mine before going forward.Now, for the future you might want to know about.One, Y2K is a disaster. Many people die on the highways when they freeze to death trying to get to warmer weather.Two, the government tries to keep power by instituting marshal law, but all of it collapses when their efforts to bring the power back up fail.Three, a power facility in Denver is able to restart itself, but is mobbed by hundreds of thousands of people and destroyed. This convinces most that maybe we shouldn’t bring the old system back up.Four, a few years later, communal government system is developed, after the constitution takes a few twists.China retakes Taiwan, Israel wins the largest battle for their life, and Russia is covered in nuclear snow from their collapsed reactors.Art, the reason I’m here now is because I believe a nuclear weapon set off by Iraq in the Middle East war with Israel might have something to do with the damaged timeline. I will test that theory and get back to you.Please pray that we discover the reason why there is no apparent future after 2564.”
This fax is what got the entire saga going.
Of course, there are always going to be others who will look for ever fault and problem with it. They will search and search. As such, some sleuthing internet investigators have found that this fax does not agree exactly with other information posted on the Internet.
This is a point that is not lost on others. They responded;
“Comparing the 1998 fax to the John Titor story that occurred a couple years later on the Internet, you can see that the “plot” changed somewhat.
[Point #1] There’s no mention of an IBM 5100 in the 1998 faxes, and [point #2] in 2000-2001, there wasn’t any focus at all on this mysterious “blackness and silence” in 2564, nor any reference to a damaged timeline.Perhaps the mission changed. Or maybe just the story.It’s possible, even, that the author of the faxes wasn’t the same person, that someone else snatched up the story, made a few changes and ran with it. But that’s just meaningless conjecture. I’ll leave you with this final thought: something’s weird about this first fax. I’ve transcribed it directly from a recording of the originally aired episode.The line Art reads, “The oldest one was a skyscraper that wasn’t built in a near favorite store of mine in New York,” is fairly strange, not just for its content, but for its structure. It’s often reinterpreted as “The oldest one was a skyscraper that don’t exist in New York.”Now, we can obviously understand what the other interpretation means, but “wasn’t built in a near favorite store of mine in New York” is just weird. Perhaps it was a typo on the fax, or Art misread it.Some, however, theorize that the original recording was edited, that the original content was obscured to hide…something. Or, perhaps, to add something. There are rumors that the audio, for whatever reason, was changed, and so multiple versions are floating around cyberspace.”
“Dear Mr. Bell,I am glad you’re back. I faxed this information to you the day before you left the air. I wanted to make sure it wasn’t lost in the shuffle so I am sending a gift. If you’ve already seen this please accept my apologies. If you choose to make this public please do not publish the fax number. I had to fax when I heard the other time traveler calling in from the recent time past in fact the year 2500 Ad.Let me explain, Mr. Bell. I sent a fax with this opening on July 29 1998. As I said then I am a time traveler. I have been on this world line since April of this year and I plan to leave soon. Typically time travelers do not purposely affect the world lines they visit. However, this mission is unusually long and I’ve grown attached to some of the people I have met here.Anyway, for my own reasons I have decided to help this world line by sharing information about the future with a few people in the hope that it will help their future. I am contacting you for the same reason. Unfortunately there is no historical reference to your program in my worldline.I believe you can change your future by creating one now.Some of the information presented on your program may be invaluable to up-line researchers. I suggest you isolate the programs that concentrate on military technology and new physics theories. Transcribe these programs and put them someplace safe away from the box. I recommend someplace in the midwest.I also urge you to reconsider your paranoia to the Russians.They are not preparing for war with the average US citizen. They are preparing for war with the US government. They will eventually save this country and the lives of millions of Americans.I realize my claims are a bit difficult to accept so I will send the following once I know you have received this fax. A few pages from the operations manual of my time machine. And a few colored photographs of my vehicle.If you wish to contact me I will be happy to share with you the nature of time, the physics of time travel and some of the events of your future.Please send a return package to…”
The webpage that posted this information explains;
“Two years later, on November 2, 2000, someone using the handle TimeTravel_0 would arrive on the Internet, explaining the particulars of a working time machine. Later, he’d pop up on Post to Post, Art Bell’s BBS forum, and the world would learn the name John Titor.”
Introduction
For the record, I initially found it difficult to believe this story.
I read the reviews and opinions online. To me, at first glance it seemed like a lying blogger who as a libertarian (Not that it is bad, just saying.) , just carried on a dialog with other bloggers regarding a “what if” scenario; to look at the world that evolves around them and look at it through the eyes of a dimensional-traveler.
Even though I was, more or less, involved in a (remotely) similar position or role, I could not sympathize with him at all.
None of my exercises, missions, or tasks resembled anything that he was describing or related to. Precisely because they did not fit into the “reality” that I was involved in, I discounted what he said without further thought. I, like, many (I am sure) dismissed the entire event sequence as a fraud.
What does not fit within our reality is often dismissed as fraudulent.
At that time, I thought (erroneously) that there was only one (soul focused) world-line, and only one (shared) reality, and as such there was only one way to traverse world-lines. That was my understanding back in the day. That was then.
This is now. Now, I “hold” things in a better perspective, and that knowledge has reshaped my understanding of the “John Titor” case.
My thoughts at that time were very conventional. I believed that we all participated in and shared the one “only” reality. (Just like you, the reader, probably believe right now.)
Later on, I was able to understand the concept of “individual realities” and quantum shadows. As part of this understanding came the realization that with multiple “true” realities came multiple types of world-line travel. Which then meant that there could be visitors to my current cluster of world-lines as I could visit others as well.
Additionally, they could just as well be part of different organizations, and using different technologies and systems (some more advanced or less advanced than others).
At that time, I dismissed all information about John Titor as a fraud. I dismissed it at that. The opinions of others, further convinced me that it was simply a fraud and a hoax.
I forgot about it. Life moved on. Years passed.
However, something kept nagging at me. The information that they presented to me seemed confusing. For a “simple” Internet hoax, the connections did not make sense.
Later, I noted that there was something very odd. No matter how hard I searched, I was just unable to find any kind of detailed, or total replication of his dialog. Oh, sure, I found snippits. I found some small quotes. I found summaries. But I was unable to find the complete transcript. And, that to me, was worrisome.
What was worrisome was that there were websites after websites discussing how the John Titor event was a fraud. It was a Hoax.
It was proven. It was discovered. It was investigated.
Yet, the actual hard-copy dialog; the full transcript of his narrative was missing. How could they come to this conclusion without the full transcript? And, further, why didn’t they post the full transcripts in their narratives. They only posted their conclusions, expecting the reader to agree with them on blind faith.
Which is exactly what the John Titor disclosure was all about. Curious. Very, very curious.
A photograph of John Titor-s time-displacement mechanism. He stated that he utilized dimensional-travel to move about through time. He did so within a vehicle, and this is a photograph that made it happen.
What? That is correct. How can something be disproved, and identified as a fraud, if the actual transcripts of his discussions are lost? What, in the heck, do the debunkers make their arguments upon?
Well, we do know, and it is covered elsewhere in my blog, that most “investigative” and “fact check” websites are funded by political interests, who use them to create a new and revised narrative that fits their agenda. Most of what they come up with are opinions provided with supporting (hand picked) “evidence”.
I managed to find complete transcripts of the John Titor saga. They were salvaged and propagated on the Internet sometime in 2014.
Reader take note:
The dearth of information regarding this is caused by misdirection by the largest American search engines such as Google, and Bing. However, I managed to find them using non-American search engines.
One thing that I do know is that the reality that we exist within is far more complex, colorful and interesting than our minds can grasp. Additionally, I KNOW that there are powers, forces, groups of people, individuals and trends that desire to keep the baseline of reality secret from the vast majority of humans. The failure to find a complete transcript was very suggestive of a disinformation effort.
Therefore, there just MIGHT be something to this story if one were to suspend their belief censors…
Over the years, I have connected various pieces together in regards to what I experienced, and what I know, with what has been reported by John Titor.
Could he be like me, but associated with another organization, from another place and time? Sure, the technology in one dimension such as a television can be present in another dimension. Could not Dimensional-travel portals and equipment?
Of course it could.
So, everything else aside, I for one (now) believe his story. No, it is not the same as mine. No. I was not part of the same organization and system. But, what I do know absolutely makes his story plausible. I present this to the reader as a plausible explanation for various events within our reality.
As such, I present his story.
I present it with all the blemishes that I was able to collect, and place my commentary (as someone who was engaged in something similar) alongside it. This is not supposed to be a technical exercise in how to build a dimensional portal, or time machine. Nor is this supposed to be a scientific exploration into the sciences involved.
This is just a playful romp into the disclosure of someone who appears to explain a number of the mysteries that confound many people today.
John Titor, Time Traveler
John Titor is the name used on several bulletin boards during the time period from 1998 to around 2001 by a poster claiming to be a time traveler from 2036. In these posts, Titor made numerous predictions about future events, some vague and some quite specific, starting with events in 2004.
His earliest post was in the summer of 1998. He placed a fax to Art Bell suggesting that he transcribe his show and place them in a safe location so that in the future others might be able to enjoy his shows.
He claimed that he travels in and out of time via a special device that he places inside of a vehicle. Each time he travels in time he actually enters an alternative world-line.
John Titor showed up 01-27-2001 12:45 PM on an online forum (in our world-line) with the username Timetraveler_0. He claimed the following:
"I am a time traveler from the year 2036. I am on my way home after getting an IBM 5100 computer system from the year 1975."
There are many, many websites and links discussing this interesting person / event. I would suggest a 55 minute long video on You-Tube which seems to offer a very complete and comprehensive introduction to the entire John Titor saga. It can be found here;
“Oliver Williams is the website editor for the time travel story of John Titor. He first saw John Titor's internet postings in the fall of 2002.
After reading many of the sites where John was discussed, it amazed Oliver as to how much polarization and confrontation John's posts caused.
Oliver soon realized that part of the problem was that there was no one place where all the posts could be easily seen.
In early 2003, Oliver gathered the posts that John had left online and edited them into a single web site. The website also contains email and news events that point to subjects John spoke about.
Oliver doesn't know if John Titor was a real time traveler or not, but, he says, what still amazes him about the posts is their ability to draw you in, question your sanity for thinking it might be real, and then scare you to death after seeing events unfold as John had said.”
Time Travel
The machine that John Titor refers to as a “Time Machine” is actually a “Dimensional Displacement Machine”. This device can place a person in other “world-lines” at other dates and times.
Due to the size of the unit, it is not portable. It is heavy, weighing about 500 pounds. It is too large to place in a backpack. Thus, either there has to be fixed “brick and mortar” structure to house the machine, or some other more mobile platform instead. John Titor states that the solution that his agency uses on the world-line that he is from is to move the device inside (preselected period) automobiles.
He stated that the technology that he utilized required that the vehicles remain in place and immobile. Thus, even though the displacement mechanism was placed inside a destination (historical period) vehicle, that vehicle had to remain immobile during operation.
Dates and Parameters
Assuming his story is correct, John Titor entered our world-line for personal reasons to visit his parents who had suffered greatly when he was a child. He entered our world-line in June 1998 and met his parents when he was only two years old. He met himself (as a two year old), his mother and his father. He moved in with them, and lived with them.
During this time (as I understand it to be) he was (somehow) involved in preventing a nationwide catastrophe known as Y2K that initiated civil strife in his world-line.
He stated that he came from a world line that was 1% to 2% in divergence from our world line.
(John Titor says 1 -2% difference. However, his world-line divergence was actually 2 to 3%. It’s a subjective comparison. I posit that the machine might calculate the relative similarities in a value percentage of say 1 to 2% prior to his entry onto that world line, however, the moment he materializes on the world line the percentage automatically jumps up. It would not be unrealistic to suppose it be at least a 2 to 3% at the initial point of arrival, and increase exponentially (not linearly) the longer he stays on the world-line.)
In other words, the target divergence was 1-2%. Upon arrival, the world-line is now 2-3% upon arrival, and over time increases proportionally. The increase is a function of his interaction upon the new destination world-line.
He claimed that due to the similarities in our two world lines that our future would be similar to his. In his future, an event known as Y2K causes serious civil disruption. Eventually this disruption resulted in nationwide civil war, and then eventually global nuclear war.
Important note; it was not Y2K that caused the civil strife, as what many people interpreted his writings to mean. Rather, Y2K was a trigger that instigated a number of civil disruptions that occurred at that time.
These disruptions set off a chain of events that eventually created a situation where the civil strife weakened the United States. As such, the United States was primed to a point whereas World War III was initiated.
He wanted to protect his parents, who suffered in his world line, by eliminating the Y2K catastrophe. When John Titor was young the federal police started to search houses and take people. It must have been a difficult time, as he and his parents packed up and moved to the country.
Important note that time when John Titor was making his posts, there was no DHS. Today we know the "federal police" as the Department of Homeland Security or DHS. It's one of those often overlooked aspects of the John Titor disclosure.
If he were to say "the DHS", not one person in 1998 or 2001 would know what he was referring to. So, he called them what they were; "federal police".
They apparently had seen strife, as John related how he was always on the run and in hiding during the civil conflict years. So while, his parents did not die during the civil war, their life was very difficult. He was a member of the militia that was busy fighting the DHS; the “federal police”.
American military vehicles deployed on American soil in defiance of the US Constitution. All vehicles were deployed under direction and orders from President Obama. These vehicles are fully equipped for military grade weapons and counter measures. If George Washington saw this he would be rolling in his grave.
John came back to create a new world-line (we have to suppose) for personal reasons, to have his parents move to a more stable area that is shielded from much of the conflict that his world-line parts (and himself) experienced.
However, by interfering in our world-line, he altered our divergence from his world-line.
What was once 1-2%, became 2-3% upon arrival, and after one or two years, entered maybe 5-6% deviance!
The subsequent conflicts of Y2K were avoided. Thus, he preserved his parents’ living standard. However, he also prevented the Y2K civil strife, the resulting civil war four years later, and the global nuclear conflict a decade after that. We are thus living in a substantially altered world-line from the one that he entered.
Here is where things get a little complicated.
Both I, and this John Titor both claim that there was to occur a “major” disruption around the 1995 to 2004 time period. John Titor claims that it was related to (what I consider to be a hoax, or dud) the Y2K event. He has thus “taken credit” in forestalling any disruption in accordance with his actions.
I, on the other hand, state that indeed there was a buildup of forces and events that were reaching a climax in this time period. I do not know the specific details of it. I do not know if it was to have been triggered by Y2K, or if that event was to be a symptom of a much more elaborate realignment sequence.
What I do know is that I, and Sebastian, and a handful of a few others have effectively “locked down” and secured the world-lines into a stable configuration based on our personalities and training.
If there was, anything that our personalities generated it was [1] a rapid increase in prosperity during the 1980’s up to 2004. American culture, always a roller-coaster ride at best, was [2] pretty stable with [3] traditional family values and a [4] more or less traditional concept of beauty and value.
This lasted until we were all retired in 2004 - 2006 time period. MAJestic disbanded our program and let the various forces continue unabated.
How did the John Titor actions affect the group collection of world-lines? It is hard to say. In my mind, it was more tactical than strategic. He caused a change that altered a course (direction vector) of (relative) apparent history, but he did not affect culture and mass humanity (group) thought.
He altered a time-line for personal reasons, and then abandoned it for his own home world-line.
Those of us who are on "bundled" world-lines so connected are now living in this constructed reality that he himself influenced.
There is no question that he altered the future destiny of our world-line. He did this in two major directions;
By working (somehow) to publicize and promote the avoidance of the Y2K event.
By staying on this world line for an extended period of time.
By his own admittance, the longer a traveler stays in a given world-line, the greater the divergence. Thus for a typical mission a few days might be required. However, he was involved in our world line for a little over two and a half years actively engaged in preventing a major catastrophic event.
The trends that we are witnessing at this time have not changed, but the nature of what they manifest as has.
He worked in this capacity until the Y2K task was completed. Once completed, he went online for a short period of time in January 2001 and announced that he was a “Time Traveler”. He did this knowing that no one would believe him, so he felt safe in doing so.
Y2K was considered a very serious issue in 1999. It was a major software design blunder that had the potential for serious infrastructure disruption.
Of course, we all “know” that Y2K was a big “nothing”.
Or, was it?
Once he was confident that his parents were safe, he left our world-line. As he still had a mission to complete. His (supposed) mission was to obtain a IBM computer from 1975 and return it to his world-line in 2036. He then left and has not been heard from since.
Suggestions of a Disinformation Effort
Actual and real or a hoax?
It’s impossible to prove. However, one can look to see if there are any efforts to render his claims are false. You generally do not need to do so with most actual hoaxes. They fall apart on their own.
The first thing to look for is the actual evidence. How difficult or easy is it to find full transcripts of his dialog? Remember, real disclosures tend to evaporate over time. Photos become harder to find. Small, heavily pixillated versions replace the HD versions. Actual transcripts disappear.
At this, was my first sign that there just might be something to this story.
No matter how hard I looked, I could not find the actual full transcripts. All I could find was a series of You-Tube videos reading the transcription (included herein).
(Undated update. In 2014 groups of bloggers gathered and collected transcripts and placed them on various websites. Unfortunately, Google and Bing have a difficult time locating these websites.) You need to use non-American search engines, or refer to my blog. LOL.
Another one of the best indications of a comprehensive disinformation effort is whether or not Hollywood, television, media, music, music video productions, or something related is involved. After all, [1] the C.A.R.E.T. disinformation protocol resulted in a music video and CGI graphics. The [2] suppression of the release of the <redacted> extraterrestrial photos resulted in a documentary with extensive FX work and CGI animations. And, of course, [3] let’s not forget all the mention of S4 from the John Lear disclosures that found their way into Hollywood…
Well, it seems that Hollywood has embraced John Titor as well.
Titor’s name appears first in the first episode of the series “Steins;Gate”. In the show, character Okabe Rintarou accuses Doctor Nakabachi of stealing John Titor’s time-travel theories. Nakabachi’s machine uses the same principles as the one described by Titor in the year 2000, so Rintarou, a fairly big Titor fanatic, recognizes it right away.
Or, maybe it’s just a coincidence.
One thing is for certain, Hollywood certainly likes the idea of using an automobile as a time travel vehicle. After all, that was the basis for the “Back to the Future” series of movies.
Time travel DeLorean. From the Back to the Future movie franchise.
Additionally, why are some individuals so fixated on disproving him?
Why is it your personal mission to disprove John Titor? Just curious why you put so much time into it? Not knocking you down just wondering-dandeville81I know, right?!
Instead of living his own life. hell, if John Titor was a hoax, then he himself put less effort and time into the hoax than this guy has debunking it! haha-Jon Lee
So, what is this? A hoax, a promotional effort for a video-novel, a disinformation effort to suppress some kind of information release or just a series of coincidences? I do not know.
However, for the record, based on my experiences I do believe him.
The John Titor Mission
The original John Titor from the years 1998 (by some accounts 1999) through 2001 claimed to be a soldier from the year 2036, sent to 1975 to retrieve an IBM 5100.
This computer, developed by IBM could use an IBM proprietary language, that he needed to prevent the 2k38 Bug and debug some legacy computer programs.
This early computer could translate between various computer languages including Basic, APL and UNEX. Which curiously I also know. Not so much of a coincidence as it is due to my age. These were the languages that were taught at my university when I went to school. My first computer language that I learned was APL.
Our world-line visit was not part of his primary mission. It was a stop-over.
A Japanese graphic showing the various world-line variations as specified by the John Titor fellow.
John Titor claimed to be in the year 2000 for “personal reasons”, as visiting his family and recovering photos lost during the civil war. He also claimed to be selected for this mission because his grandfather was directly involved in the creation of the time machine.
First of multiple Posts
This post is the first of a series of posts related to John Titor. The other posts are;
Conclusion
Our reality is not what we think it is. I am not the only person who has disclosed that there are others, and other organizations that can enter and leave our reality at will. Another person who made this claim went by the name John Titor.
Only where as, I claim to be part of MAJestic and was employed as part of human sentience management, John Titor claimed to be a person who was part of another world-line. Together, we both claim that the MWI is real, and we utilize it to perform dimensional egress for our own purposes.
I claim that it is a tool that is used to manage human sentience evolution.
John Titor claims that he utilized the time variable to conduct acquisition activities in the past.
He claimed that on that world-line, the United States was fundamentally different after a rapid series of events in the late 1990’s. He claimed that he needed to perform some acquisition of certain technical devices through the use of the time-variance option in dimensional travel.
This is a multi-part post.
Take Aways
John Titor claimed to be a time traveler.
He utilized dimensional travel to move in and out of the baseline reality.
As such, he visited our world-line to acquire some technology needed on his world-line.
That technology was produced in “our” past. Thus the idea that it involved “time travel”.
MAJestic Related Posts – Training
These are posts and articles that revolve around how I was recruited for MAJestic and my training. Also discussed is the nature of secret programs. I really do not know why the organization was kept so secret. It really wasn’t because of any kind of military concern, and the technologies were way too involved for any kind of information transfer. The only conclusion that I can come to is that we were obligated to maintain secrecy at the behalf of our extraterrestrial benefactors.
MAJestic Related Posts – Our Universe
These particular posts are concerned about the universe that we are all part of. Being entangled as I was, and involved in the crazy things that I was, I was given some insight. This insight wasn’t anything super special. Rather it offered me perception along with advantage. Here, I try to impart some of that knowledge through discussion.
Enjoy.
MAJestic Related Posts – World-Line Travel
These posts are related to “reality slides”. Other more common terms are “world-line travel”, or the MWI. What people fail to grasp is that when a person has the ability to slide into a different reality (pass into a different world-line), they are able to “touch” Heaven to some extent. Here are posts that cover this topic.
John Titor Related Posts
Another person, collectively known by the identity of “John Titor” claimed to utilize world-line (MWI egress) travel to collect artifacts from the past. He is an interesting subject to discuss. Here we have multiple posts in this regard.
