Selco Talks About The 4 Types of REAL Survivalists – A great Read.

There is this fellow, goes by the pen-name Selco, that is pretty well known in prepper / survivalist circles. You see, he lived through the chaos of the Bosnian conflict and survived. He writes about his experiences, and provides some hints and stories about what it was like. Aside from being immensely interesting, it is also good information to take to heart when the SHIT HITS THE FAN (also known as SHTF). Here is one of his write-ups. I found it interesting, and perhaps you (the reader) will do as well.

The Bosnian war of 1992 to 1996 is one of the most recent examples of  a total SHTF situation. Upwards of 329,000 people died during the war  and the country is still recuperating in many ways (though it has also  made a remarkable recovery). During the Siege of Sarajevo which lasted  1,425 days, people were without water, electricity, and supplies.
 
Bear  in mind that Bosnia was a very westernized, modern country when the war  broke out. Heck, the capital of Sarajevo even hosted the 1984 Olympic  games! 

 -Primal Survivor  

Editor’s Note: Below is a segment of Selco’s book, SHTF Survival Stories. I think it’s a good indicator of the way Selco illustrates his points with real-life stories from the SHTF. This is a long piece but well worth the read. (Be sure to go here to see how to get a free mini-course when you purchase the book before Feb. 9.) This book is nearly 500 pages of experience and hard-won advice. All credit to the author. Excerpt by Selco Begovic, the author of SHTF Survival Stories


During the SHTF, I was a jack of all trades.

Resource gatherer, fighter and defender for my family, and also just the young man who wanted to enjoy life as much as possible in these problematic times.

During the SHTF, I was a jack of all trades.

In this section, I want to talk about different types of real survivalists. I don’t want to judge here. If you have lived a normal life, you may only know a glimpse of your survivor mindset – what kind of person you will be when SHTF and you fight for survival. What is important to know is that people show very different faces or mindsets when it comes to real survival.

Normal people like to think that everything can be solved by doing good, so they are trying to do good. Here it is not important whether we are talking about people who believe in God or not.

We have all seen TV shows where preppers are showing their stuff, talking about their plans for a time when SHTF.

What is  important to know is that people show very different faces or mindsets  when it comes to real survival.
What is important to know is that people show very different faces or mindsets when it comes to real survival.

I have seen a lady who is preparing for some possible scenario and showing her food storage and talking about her plans when SHTF. She is storing a whole lot of everything, much more than she and her family need because as she explains there is gonna be a whole lot of people who have lost everything, and her plan is to help them.

I hope everything the best for her. She is a great person. Someone who wants to help other people is a good person, period.

But when the SHTF, she is going down.

When SHTF, things are upside down.
When SHTF, things are upside down .

Sorry for being so negative but when people have to decide whether they die or this nice lady does, for many the answer is easy.

When SHTF, things are upside down, so it will not work as people imagine. We are all living our lives today aware that bad people exist, but that bad and evil is more or less (depending on where we are living) controlled or locked away from society. So, we are actually not aware of how many bad folks are around us.

You might be living with one… yourself.

The only person you can count on in a SHTF situation is yourself.  Don’t count on authorities like the police or military to keep you safe.
 
Take what happened in Srebrenica as an example. It was a “UN Safe Haven” with Dutch troops stationed there.
 
Despite  this, it became the site of the worst massacre of the war and over  8,000 men and boys were rounded up and killed. The day that Srebrenica  fell, 25 thousand refugees pleaded for help outside of the UN military  base but were left outside to fend for themselves. 

 -Primal Survivor  

When the SHTF, I was rudely awakened from the illusion. Actually, my illusion was shattered to pieces when I saw what “normal” people did to just survive. Bad people will be around.

When the SHTF, I was rudely awakened from the illusion. Actually, my  illusion was shattered to pieces when I saw what “normal” people did to  just survive. Bad people will be around.
THE BOSNIAN CIVIL WAR 1992 – 1995 (HU 75052) A Bosnian soldier comes under fire near a row of destroyed houses in Brcko, North East Bosnia, February 1993. Copyright: © IWM. Original Source: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205020580

#1) The Bad Man

I knew a guy before the SHTF who was a nobody. An ordinary worker from one of the industrial machine parts factories.

Actually, I did not really know him than the usual “hello” on the street, or football discussion sometimes in the neighborhood.

He lived alone, looked decent, and had a typical work and afterward “coffee house/bar with friends” life. If someone asked me to describe him, I would say “just a guy from the neighborhood” or a typical “normal dude”.

When the SHTF, he emerged as one of the leaders of a local group. And he was popular, he had something that made people want to follow him. The problem was that he had something that made bad kinds of people follow him. He was pretty much something like a psychopath.

This guy was now someone very different.
This guy was now someone very different.

Murders, rape, robbing and everything else that goes with that was their way of life in that time. And to make things clear here, I need to say that whenever I met him and his group out on the street I would go and hide even I knew him from his former life as a “normal guy.”

This guy was now someone very different.

It was not like a movie. I was prepared to confront them and fight only as a last option, but Batman was not living in the city in that time. Even if he was there, he probably would have given up, so the chances of a superhero versus a group of bad guys were not realistic.

How bad?

Sometimes he liked to catch a guy and make him run across the open space where snipers were active. If the guy survived that (rarely) then they shot at him. If he survived that shooting too, then he would live. He called that, “God will decide are you going to live or die.”

It was not like a movie. I was prepared to confront them and fight  only as a last option, but Batman was not living in the city in that  time. Even if he was there, he probably would have given up, so the  chances of a superhero versus a group of bad guys were not realistic.
It was not like a movie. I was prepared to confront them and fight only as a last option, but Batman was not living in the city in that time. Even if he was there, he probably would have given up, so the chances of a superhero versus a group of bad guys were not realistic.

Some people have a certain type of charisma, and he had a lot of it. When you add the fact that he was bad, or evil if you like, you got an explosive combination. He was something like a bad kind of hero, the man who weak people want to follow. And they would obey his commands. Also, when you add the fact that he provided security and food for them, that counted too.

I was once in their nest, or headquarters, if you like to call it like that. It was like a place taken from weird fairy tales, or like some drug-induced nightmare.

On the ceiling, there was a big disco ball. On the wall, there was a big target drawn with paint with holes from bullets. Some women were laying on the couch giggling, drunk or high, watching me.

On the ceiling, there was a big disco ball. On the wall, there was a  big target drawn with paint with holes from bullets.
On the ceiling, there was a big disco ball. On the wall, there was a big target drawn with paint with holes from bullets.

On the floor in one corner, one man was laying. I was not sure if he was dead, drunk or just sleeping. I passed around him carefully. I was wearing my “I do not care” look because in a situation like that, if you showed fear you may find yourself in a bad situation. For example, these guys could make a practicing target out of you just for fun.

Also, to look too bold was not a good idea.

He was sitting in a bus seat taken from somewhere, and he had a hat on his head, the kind that you wear with a tuxedo. If that all was in a movie that I was watching I would laugh a lot.

But it was not a movie and I did not laugh.

My friend who brought me there introduced me to him and told him that I needed MREs. That friend was supposed to be my protection or something similar, but very soon I realized that, I, just like everyone else there, was dependent on his goodwill.

His first question to me was, “Are you going to her concert?”

I was confused, then he showed me a poster on the wall announcing some folk concert that happened a year ago in some different world. I did not know what to say.

He said, “I can get you tickets.”

And I said, “OK thanks”.

Nobody smiled. Some guy behind him was taking apart a machine gun and cleaning it with oil.

Anyway, we finished our deal, and I went home. While I was leaving, he said, “Do not forget to pick up your tickets” with a big fat smile.

I thought that he was crazy, but actually, he was not crazy at all. He just had a big great time since SHTF and enjoyed terrifying people to feel his power. He lived his dream where everything is allowed, where there is no punishment from society other than some other stronger and more wicked guy.

There is nothing deep and philosophical in that guy’s behavior and mindset. He was just a normal guy who turned bad because he loved power and was in a world without rules where he could play.

He lived on the bad side and lived a fast and evil life. He liked that SHTF situation.

But SHTF did not create that guy. He was there all the time. His real character just waited for SHTF to come out and play.

After some time, he ended up stabbed to death and then burned. I also knew the guy who did that, and he was even worse than the first bad man.

Now, this guy was not alone. When the SHTF, a whole bunch of weird and sick folks emerged. The point is that you never know what kind of people are living around you, or even with you.

And to make things worse, as I said, this guy was something like “normal” guy before SHTF.

In these days, everything fell apart in the city, all that makes life normal, and institutions were falling apart too.
You do whatever it takes to survive.

Besides those normal guys who turned bad, there is a whole army of scum and criminals who are just waiting for the SHTF to happen, so they can go out and be something like small dictators.

You can be sure that they are perfectly prepared for that. They already live in their own version of criminal SHTF, with their rules. When real SHTF they gonna be ready for it, they just gonna jump out fully organized and ready to take over. They are gonna go open and be very mean.

I was surprised, though. I was like, “Why are there so many mean and bad folks suddenly?”

The answer is actually simple. Bad people are all around us. Some of them are aware of the fact that they are bad like organized crime members, gangs etc. Others are gonna see SHTF like their chance to fulfill their secret wishes and indulge in power over others.

So, no doubt once the SHTF you’ll run into a bad man from time to time, too.

#2. The Chameleon

Most of the folks who have been through some serious and life-threatening situations and survive are gonna tell you one thing: they survive it with mental strength.

Also, all survival instructors are going say that first thing in any survival situation to have is the will to survive.

It is easy to say today “I will survive” but a great majority of people do not know what the will to survive actually means.

Do not count on "peace keeping forces".
Do not count on “peace keeping forces”.

In my time I did see some folks who just laid down and had lost the will for life. They just gave up.

When it comes to survival you have to focus on what you are good at, and some people are just good at working with other people or maybe dealing or playing with other people. The mainstream media gives everyone a picture how real survivalist need to look and act, but they’re wrong.

The Chameleon is a smart type of real survivalist.

When SHTF, the word deception has a whole other meaning and becomes powerful.

It is used in many different situations and for many different reasons. It helps some to survive but also helps to take lives.

Never form your opinion about what kind of man is dangerous based on popular images. When the SHTF, you can end up dead because some 70-year-old lady blows your head off with a shotgun.

This is how you should think, but the average man – the sheeple – don’t.

So, you can be sure that when the time comes, you’ll need to look stronger than you are. But also, sometimes you gonna need to look much weaker than you are. More options are always better.

And for all who are preparing with the attitude, “let them come,” you need to change it to “let them not come”.

There was a guy in town in that time who was very good to know if you needed to figure out where you could find something useful, or to find out what is going on.

If I needed to find something particular, for example, if I needed 10 liters of diesel fuel for something, I would first check people in my vicinity. I’d check a few guys out, do they have that or do they know someone who has that. In short, I would go out and try my luck.

But there was also that guy who always had good information about sources for trade or any other information.

The guy was shrouded in some kind of rumors, or it was more like a myth. So, you could hear all kinds of stories like, “he has important friends” or “he has some sources from the outside” or “somebody powerful is protecting him.”  After all of those stories, you could easily conclude that the guy was powerful, even before you saw him.

He alone did not look mean or powerful or anything similar, but he carried this mean-looking, old-style, heavy machine gun all the time, with bullet strips over his shoulders and chest.

Anytime when I would go and visit him, I got something useful for trade or some useful information where I could go and find something.

He survived the war and I did not see him for several years. Then I met him in the mall, when he was buying some toys for his grandson. I started a conversation with him, and we got some coffee.

I asked him what he is doing now. He said he is a lawyer. I was surprised. Then he told me that he was a lawyer before the SHTF. For some reasons, I could not connect that man from the war period with a lawyer, but soon some things were clearer for me.

He invited me to his house for more coffee, and after some time he went to the basement and dragged up a big wooden box with locks on it out.

He opened it and I saw that old machine gun inside. Of course, I wanted to check it. When I took it, I saw that barrel was full of melted iron, in order to make weapon unusable.

I was surprised and asked the man why he did that. I mean, you never know when you gonna need weapon ready. He laughed and said, “It was always like that, unusable”.

Now I was completely confused, and then he started to talk.

Do not count on "peace keeping forces". There have been cases where UN forces turned a "blind eye" to mass killings of civilians.
Do not count on “peace keeping forces”. There have been cases where UN forces turned a “blind eye” to mass killings of civilians.

He was a lawyer before SHTF, he never fired a shot from any weapon, and violence was completely strange to him. When SHTF in the chaos he found himself on the street, looking at how a bunch of folks were breaking into malls and shops, taking whatever is useful.

In 5 minutes, he was inside a local museum with some young people who were breaking stuff and taking whatever useful things they could. He said, “When I saw a local policeman completely drunk trying to take a German uniform and helmet for fun, I realized that we were starting to live in interesting times.”

He took the machine gun from a glass box, together with some bullets strips and went home.

Ten days later some punks tried to loot his home armed with knives and screwdrivers:

“I put those bullet strips on me, took the machine gun, stood in front of them and yelled that if they do not disappear that moment, I am gonna massacre them.”

And of course, they disappeared.

He said, even if that thing worked, he was not sure if he would be able to shoot at them. But he realized one thing. It is not important how things really are – it is important what things look like.

When all the different groups in town started to use signs – I mean small colored bands on the shoulder in order to make clear who belonged to their group – he got all those bands and markings.

When all of those groups started with some system, when to wear what, he bribed guys in order to know that system.

So, if one group was controlling some part of the town and they used red bands on shoulders on Monday and Wednesday, and a black one on Sunday on Saturday he would know that.

He used that for moving through the city, because in all that chaos if you were moving through the city during the night, and you needed to go through an area that was controlled by some group, it was very useful to have some of their signs or code.

In these days, everything fell apart in the city, all that makes life normal, and institutions were falling apart too.
In these days, everything fell apart in the city, all that makes life normal, and institutions were falling apart too.

So, he was a member of multiple groups and all those groups shared information with him. As a result, he was everywhere in the city, and he always had correct information about important things.

He knew what was gonna have a high price, or when new food aid might come in. I asked him, “How were you able to know all the information about so much stuff?” Because it sounded just too complicated for me.

He said, “What I did not know I just made up in my head”.

Actually, he was playing with prices, with demand, and the needs of the people. He dictated the prices.

After some time, because of all of his information, he became so popular that if he said that “cans are gonna be very hard to find in next month,” people believed it.

So, it was easy for him to distribute all cans at higher prices. Of course, not personally, but at the same time, he would, of course, know a man who had cans right now at a cheap price. His man. He got a cut out of most deals and that helped him to survive.

Through his network of people, he put the word out that “powerful people were protecting him.” Another illusion but together with fact that people did not want to have problems with a man who had always good information, he survived.

Also, one other thing helped. In the first period, he collected 5-6 bodies, badly dismembered by shells and put them in front of his house. He put word on the street that “some guys messed with him, but he called his powerful friends and those friends made examples of the guys to not mess with him.”

If some really strong group caused danger to him, he just left the house and waited for them to leave.

No problem, he did not have anything valuable in his house. Trading goods he kept with his “associates” and his main value was information.

His main value actually was his brain.

Keep that in mind. Before you give up because you have nothing, use your brain and try to play the system with deception. Chaotic urban survival situations offer lots of opportunity for that.

#3. Slaves and Servants

Drug dealers, prostitutes, thieves, addicts, homeless people, family people, believers… good people, bad people… we like to call people by names in order to judge them and live our lives easier.

Most of the time we judge them so easily and form our opinion about them as we go without too much thought. It is easier like that. We see people doing something and think it is because of how they are. We often do not consider all the things that make them do what they do.

We see something, give that a name, and that’s it. Sometimes there is much more behind it. Someone who is bad might just have had circumstances in life that being like that is the only thing which made sense for that person. Yes, their whole way of thinking might be “wrong” or he might not act badly because he is bad, but because his kids are dying.

People judge too fast.

Not to mention that when the SHTF, it is dangerous to sort people in the easy and fast way. It can lead us to form the wrong opinion, which can lead to a lot of bad things. I learned not to judge people right away. A future friend might behave terribly the first time you meet, and a future enemy might be very nice to you.

I want to say this before writing about the type of real survivalist that I write about now. You encounter slaves and servants in a long-term survival situation because even though they go a very different way from a brave fighter… they are real survivalists and just make things work.

Many lone fighters died, and many servants suffered but survived. It’s not like a movie.

A lady who was my colleague before SHTF lived with her husband and two kids. She was in her 30s, a very nice and easy person to work with. She was my friend and we shared a lot of great moments at the job. I never saw or heard anything bad about her. I knew her husband, I knew her kids.

When the SHTF I lost contact with her in all that chaos, and to be honest I completely forgot about her. I had more important things to worry about.

In these days, everything fell apart in the city, all that makes life normal, and institutions were falling apart too.
In these days, everything fell apart in the city, all that makes life normal, and institutions were falling apart too.

A few months later on the trip that almost killed me out of town over the mountains to get some things we desperately needed, I had the opportunity to meet her again.

We already passed the most dangerous parts of the trip – mines, mountains, woods, and no man’s land – and came into a small part of territory controlled by one of the numerous militias, loosely tied to bigger (again numerous) factions.

The guys did not give us any problems, other than very short checking of who we were and where we were going.

We had already paid for passage to “a guy who knows a guy,” so everything went smooth. We took a small rest in one of the shacks and drank hot “tea.” Actually, the exact description would be “hot dirty melted snow, with added alcohol.”

Then I saw her, my ex-colleague.

If I learned anything since SHTF that was fact that you need to hide your feelings and body language until you figure out what is really going on.

So, I did not say anything to her, and I acted like I did not know her, even though I wanted very much to jump up, hug her, and ask about everything, about her, her family, etc.

She put some rice on the table, and more alcohol in front of one group member. She was one woman in a group of some 30 men, who were armed, wasted, and pretty dangerous. Most of them did not know too much about literature but they know enough about violence.

In these days, everything fell apart in the city, all that makes life normal, and institutions were falling apart too.
In these days, everything fell apart in the city, all that makes life normal, and institutions were falling apart too.

She did not look like a prisoner, and also, she did not look scared or beaten. She also did not recognize me (or maybe did not want to recognize me.)

Anyway, about a half hour later, one of the men from the group offered me her, for a price, explaining to me that “she is the property of the leader, but also if anybody is willing to pay, she can belong to them for half an hour.”

Now if that was a movie, probably you would expect from me to shoot all of them and save her, so we could ride into the sunset.

But it was not a movie, and I could get maybe three of them down before someone blows off my head and takes my boots and rifle. And even if I could save her, she would probably tell me that she does not want to be saved.

We went through that piece of land without any problems, and I did not see her again, ever. And no, I did not pay the price to buy her for half an hour, and I did not try to start a conversation with her.

Later I found out the whole story.

When SHTF people did a lot of different things in order to survive. She became the mistress of one of the small group leaders, and also the prostitute of that group.

She was not a prisoner, well not obviously, but you also need to understand that if she left that group, she and her family would lose protection and the steady income of goods. And her kids needed to eat something.

I do not know what her husband thought about all that (he was a bit of weak guy before SHTF) but rumors were that he agreed with it, in order to survive.

So, it lasted like that for months. And they survived.

In these days, everything fell apart in the city, all that makes life normal, and institutions were falling apart too.
THE BOSNIAN CIVIL WAR 1992 – 1995 (HU 75062) Civilians go about their daily business in Sarajevo behind barricades constructed from freight containers, June 1992. Much of Sarajevo was under Serbian sniper fire during the siege and the barricades enabled civilians to cross streets and move from sector to sector of the city without coming under Serbian observation. Civilians, as well as military personnel, were considered legitimate targets by… Copyright: © IWM. Original Source: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205020572

So, is that good or bad? It’s nothing. It’s survival. Blame her husband? No… because they survived. If he would have become the fighter he might have died and with him, his family.

This does not mean people should let their wives become prostitutes (there were male prostitutes too, by the way). Everyone makes their own decisions and later you always know better.

Again, here comes in not judging.

Of course, when peace and normal life came, they could not stand to live here, not after everything. So, they chose to immigrate. As I heard it, they are living somewhere in South America under different names.

Here is some more background to that.

Prostitution here was something different than in other countries, and before

In these days, everything fell apart in the city, all that makes life normal, and institutions were falling apart too.
THE BOSNIAN CIVIL WAR 1992 – 1995 (BOS 239) A Bosnian sniper takes aim from the window of a ruined mosque during fighting in Brcko, north-east Bosnia, February 1993 Copyright: © IWM. Original Source: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205020545

SHTF you had to be a member of very rich and higher class of society or higher ranks of the political elite to be able to get into the contact with one. It was illegal and also it was traditionally very “wrong.”

So, prostitution was rare. To be a known prostitute was rare. To be a normal family woman and become a prostitute was unbelievable and almost impossible.

But when SHTF, lots of things changed.

There were prostitutes all around, not to mention women who were held as some kind of half slaves. Their position was not always the same, so some of them were not more than slaves, another one was almost powerful as the gang leader who they belonged to. There were also men who were just mascots or servants for more powerful people – but overall this was a more common way for a woman to survive.

Not all women were prostitutes, of course. Just like men, they all chose how to survive. Some were prostitutes, while others were more dangerous with a rifle than a lot of men.

But most of them chose just to stay home with their family and care for the kids. It was not something like – they need to do that – it was just that they did what they did best and what was needed, just like most of the folks in that period.

In these days, everything fell apart in the city, all that makes life normal, and institutions were falling apart too.
THE BOSNIAN CIVIL WAR: BRITISH FORCES WITH THE UNITED NATIONS PROTECTION FORCE IN BOSNIA AND CROATIA, 1992 – 1995 (BOS 92) Soldiers of 1 Cheshire Regiment construct a bomb shelter near the school which they employed as a base in Vitez, 1992. Copyright: © IWM. Original Source: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205188177

That woman I spoke about was much closer to an equal gang member than to a slave. They did not force her into prostitution. Actually, she “belonged” to the group leader, but also, she sold herself for goods, some of which she kept for herself and family, and some went to members of the gang. It was her “trade.” While other men risked their lives, she overcome her dignity and did that.

She had protection and food, and also her family home had some kind of protection from that group as well as food and other things.

She was there mainly for the fun of the group leader, and sometimes other members and customers when she wanted.

They survived.

In these days, everything fell apart in the city, all that makes life normal, and institutions were falling apart too.
THE BOSNIAN CIVIL WAR: BRITISH FORCES WITH THE UNITED NATIONS PROTECTION FORCE IN BOSNIA AND CROATIA, 1992 – 1995 (BOS 69) A Muslim civilian displays a sniper’s rifle with home made silencer near Gornji Vakuf. Copyright: © IWM. Original Source: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205188170

We can now judge them and talk about what every one of us would do in their situation, but we should not.

This may also be a lesson for normal times.

I worked for years in emergency services and see daily people living at the borders of normal society or even far from those borders in a different, very dark and nasty world.

It’s not that all of them are bad but sometimes in life, you have to do what you have to do, even if it only makes sense to you at that moment. It is not an excuse but it helps to remember that when your existence is under threat you might do very different things too.

In these days, everything fell apart in the city, all that makes life normal, and institutions were falling apart too.
THE BOSNIAN CIVIL WAR 1992 – 1995 (BOS 222) An elderly man scavenges through rubbish for food and anything that could be salvaged or sold in Sarajevo, December 1994. Copyright: © IWM. Original Source: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205020556

I’m sure only a very few (maybe sexually very open people) really plan on going that way when SHTF. But plans, they change.

#4. The Good Boss

The last type of survivalist I will write about is about a typical leader who knew how to handle our survival situation during the war.

He was a police officer. We called him “Boss” because of his look and stance. He had 30 years of service and I do not think that he used a gun too much. But he had a palm like a shovel and he used that a lot dealing with problematic teenagers.

He was the grumpy guy with whom you do not want to have too much business. If you got caught for some minor thing, theft or whatever, he did not talk too much with you, but his look talked stories, and his hands too.

In these days, everything fell apart in the city, all that makes life normal, and institutions were falling apart too.
THE BOSNIAN CIVIL WAR 1992 – 1995 (HU 75042) A badly damaged house in Stup, near Sarajevo Airport, 1994. English grafitti on the front of the house reads ‘Welcome to Sarajevo’. The photographer, Kevin Weaver, was wounded by a Serbian sniper bullet in front of this house. Copyright: © IWM. Original Source: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205020585

He gave people justice on the spot and got respect for that too. He made a difference for our neighborhood and was a type of police officer that in my opinion does not exist today anymore.

He and his colleagues had a patrol in a better part of the city when the SHTF, and in the beginning, they tried to restore some order in all that. But when they saw that an ambulance vehicle on call got shredded with shots, they realized that a new time had come.

They did not discuss too much but they were sure that law and order was something that was gone now, and to act like law keepers just did not make sense anymore.

They went back to the police station and took more weapons and equipment. Then they used a police van and went to army storage and took more weapons.

In these days, everything fell apart in the city, all that makes life normal, and institutions were falling apart too.
THE BOSNIAN CIVIL WAR 1992 – 1995 (HU 75044) Two Bosnian Muslims, father and son, in the ruins of their house in Sarajevo after it was destroyed by a Serbian missile, June 1992. The young man’s wife was killed in the explosion. Copyright: © IWM. Original Source: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205020583

They separated and took that to their homes. His colleagues shook his hand and left, each fighting their own fight. He pushed the police van out of the street and went home.

He lived alone for many years before SHTF, and also being the police officer for years gave him the advantage of knowing something about mob mentality and power over people. So, he did not have too many problems in dealing with issues in those beginning days. He was alone and that was a problem. But he was smart and that made a difference.

In these days, everything fell apart in the city, all that makes life normal, and institutions were falling apart too.

Local correction youth center, something like an open type jail for teenagers was falling apart too, so young folks were leaving there.

In these days, everything fell apart in the city, all that makes life normal, and institutions were falling apart too.
THE BOSNIAN CIVIL WAR 1992 – 1995 (BOS 230) Croat HVO soldiers greet each other after having forced the Serbs to evacuate Mostar, June 1992. The attack on the Serbian positions in the town was undertaken as a joint Bosnian – Croat operation. Copyright: © IWM. Original Source: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205020547

He went there and took 7 guys from there. He used to be something like their “watcher” in normal times. He had arrested them for small-time burglaries, cons etc. He also kept eye on them when they were out of the correction facility and on streets again. Because of how he did things, he was like a father who gave them slaps here and there.

They all were kids without families. That correction center was their home or they were on the streets. Anyway, he took them to his home and took care of them in that chaos, and after some time they took care of him too. They all were around 16-17 years old at that time when all hell broke loose.

He taught them to shoot, to defend themselves, to trade, and to recognize problematic people. The fact that they been that problematic person once only helped in process of teaching. Those kids were street smart. And he was not too soft in process of teaching, in other words, he used his “shovels” a lot in process of “making people of them” as he called it.

He taught them to shoot, to defend themselves, to trade, and to  recognize problematic people.
A Croat fighter stands at the ready with his AK-47 in Vitez. Conflict among the Croats, Serbs, and Muslims in Bosnia began when Bosnia declared independence in early 1992, several months after other regions of Yugoslavia entered into war. (Photo by Patrick ROBERT/Sygma via Getty Images)

But he also taught them never to take from someone else. He was still a policeman and kept his ideals. They never turned against him. I saw many times that real sons turn against their fathers in that time or brother against brother, but they were perfectly loyal to each other, a real family. I guess it was because they knew that only in this group could they survive.

They did pretty well because of the starting “capital” he took from the army barracks. They were people that you could visit and get a rifle in a fair trade, without danger that you would be shot in the back. Also, they were the people that you did not want to f*ck with because violence was not a problem for them at all.

“Boss” died a few months before peace came, from wound infection. All seven of his “boys” survived and I never heard that they did something bad in that time. OK, bad in a little bit different terms, maybe. Not atrocities, nothing about unnecessary violence. What was necessary is a different question of course, but all of us who survived were not the most gentle folks at that time.

One of them later in peace went into organized crime and ended up shot dead, but all 6 of the rest of them grew up and became proud and strong family people. The type of men that you would want to have for a friend.

All  seven of his “boys” survived and I never heard that they did something  bad in that time. OK, bad in a little bit different terms, maybe. Not  atrocities, nothing about unnecessary violence.
All seven of his “boys” survived and I never heard that they did something bad in that time. OK, bad in a little bit different terms, maybe. Not atrocities, nothing about unnecessary violence.

They all refer to Boss as their father. They live today in different cities and countries, some of them even on another continent, but once every two years, they have met, all together in his memory.

And that guy from the beginning of the story, that colleague of the Boss?

He used his share of the loot from the barracks to form a gang, and they did a lot of bad stuff to the people. He finished dead, stabbed more than 30 times. Nobody remembers him or wants to remember him. It is like he did not exist at all.

In a survival scenario, you want people around you who know why the group matters. Just like early humans who knew not to fight each other or cause problems for the survival of the whole group. In the case of a Boss, the street kids already knew about survival and he was the perfect leader for them who also knew what kind of leadership style worked with them.

In a survival scenario, you want people around you who know why the  group matters.
In a survival scenario, you want people around you who know why the group matters.

Now I could say nice things about how to choose your group and of course include that annoying drama person that maybe your brother or sister married because “he/she is part of the family”.

But I speak from my experience and if you want to survive, like in any other “team” your group has to work. Having a strong leader like Boss helps a lot.

Normal is gone.

Normal laws and norms of society are gone in a long-term survival situation so people who still do things because it looks good are at disadvantage compared to people who do what works and make the team stronger and not weaker. If someone makes my team weaker on purpose (not because of sickness or age) he is not part of it.

Normal laws and norms of society are gone in a long-term survival  situation.
Normal laws and norms of society are gone in a long-term survival situation .

When you think about your survival group, think about who makes the best boss. Who knows how to lead the people? What works? Prepare for that too, and you are far ahead of many other preppers who think they can buy safety with money and having the most preps and gear.


Conclusion

We can spend a lot of time speculating about how people will react in  the aftermath of a major disaster, how society will react, what food  will be available, and the many other survival details. But the truth is  that we don’t know what will happen when SHTF.
 
The best  thing we can do is imagine as many possible scenarios as possible, and  take steps to prepare for them. However, we CAN take a lesson from SHTF  situations throughout history. By seeing what happened in the past, we  can get an idea of what may come. 

-Primal Survivor 

I hope that things don’t ever come to this. Yet, here I am, sitting at home in the middle of a biological attack by America on China as part of the Trump Trade Wars. We were caught off guard, and while China has reacted strongly to this by placing the military on DEFCON ONE, and locking the entire nation down, it’s still a SHTF situation.

And… I was caught “flat footed”.

You see, before we left for CNY, we cleaned out all of our food storage, and boxed up all of our property for a housing move that we were going to make immediately after CNY. Yikes! When we arrived home from our family trip, we entered a boxed up house with no food except for a big bag of rice, and a stack of about six cases of beer.

For weeks, we’ve been living off fried rice and beer.

Don’t be like us!

SHTF events happen when you are not expecting them. Do not be caught flat footed. Right now, I’ll tell you what is like. It’s BORING! Everyone is staying inside, and even though we have water, electricity and internet, we are collectively going stir-crazy!

Bosnians spent a lot of time during the war crouched down in basements  and holed up in apartments. It is incredibly boring. Without anything to  occupy their minds, fear would overwhelm them. No wonder survivors say  that books became their only respite. I’m going to add some more books  (the paper kind, not Kindle!) to my survival supplies. 

 -Primal Survivor  

Word to the wise, you all.

My SHTF experience.
My SHTF experience.

Hey! If you enjoyed this post, then you would love my index. Check out my SHTF index here…

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Early SHTF advice. What it was like surviving when your entire world is turned up side down. A first Selco interview.

When your world is turned upside down, what is it like? Can you rush to the supermarket and stock up on groceries? Can you rely on the national guard to keep roving gangs at bay? Can you make sure that your home is heated and that you have running water? What is it like?

This is an interview with Selco when he first started posting on the internet. He says a lot of interesting things, and makes a number of points that I would like to underline.

The Siege of Sarajevo was the longest siege of a capital city in the history of modern warfare. After being initially besieged by the forces of the Yugoslav People's Army, Sarajevo, the capital of Bosnia and Herzegovina, was besieged by the Army of Republika Srpska from 5 April 1992 to 29 February 1996 during the Bosnian War.
The Siege of Sarajevo was the longest siege of a capital city in the history of modern warfare. After being initially besieged by the forces of the Yugoslav People’s Army, Sarajevo, the capital of Bosnia and Herzegovina, was besieged by the Army of Republika Srpska from 5 April 1992 to 29 February 1996 during the Bosnian War.

This article is from another article posted, titled ;”How I survived a year of SHTF in 90s Bosnia”. I think that is is pretty good. All credit to the author and the source. I did edit his grammar, for the most part. It makes for decent reading that way.

Introduction

Back in September of 2011, a user named Selco joined the forums at SurvivalistBoards.com and posted “my SHTF experience-wartime,” a thread that would since become legendary in survivalist communities and beyond (you frequently see people reference it to this day on sites such as 4chan and reddit).

In it, Selco details his experience of living in a besieged Bosnian town of 50 to 60k people during the Bosnian War (1992-1995). The siege took away everything modern humans take for granted and tested with extreme brutality Selco’s and his community’s ability to survive.

But what is so interesting about this war story is that it was told to a group of survivalists (preppers) who had questions — lots of questions.

  • How does barter work and which survival strategies are worthless bunk?
  • How were the social dynamics when everyone realized there was no law?
  • What really happens and what kind of tricks do people actually get up to to get by when faced with — essentially — the apocalypse?

Selco’s first post.

OK, i wanna share with you my own experience. (be patient with my English, I am from far away )

I am from Bosnia, and as some of you may know it was hell here from 92-95, anyway, for 1 whole year I lived and survived in a city of 50 000- 60 000 residents WITHOUT: electricity, fuel,running water, real food distribution, or distribution of any goods, or any kind of organized law or government. The city was surrounded for 1 year and in that city actually it was SHTF situation.

We did not have organized army or police force, there was groups of defenders, actually anybody who had a gun, fight for his own house and his own family.

Some of us was better prepared, but most of families had food for couple of days, some of us had pistol, few owned AK-47 when all started.

Anyway, after one month or two, gangs started with their nasty job, hospital looked like butchery, police force vanished, 80 percent of hospital staff gone home.

I was lucky, my family was big in that time (15 members in one big house, 5-6 pistols, 3 Kalashnikov s) so we lived and survived, most of us (that is).

I remember US Air force dropped MRE every 10 days (God bless USA for that) as help for surrounded city, it just was not enough. Some of houses had little gardens with some vegetables, most did not.

After three months rumors started about (the) first deaths from starvation, deaths from low temperatures, we stripped every door, window frame from abandoned houses for heating, I burned all my own furniture for heating, lot of people died from diseases, mostly from bad water (two of my family members), we used rain water for drinking, several times I ate pigeons, once I (even) ate rat.

Money did (was) not worth shit.

We traded things, (the) black market worked. A few examples: for 1 (can of) corned beef can you could have woman for couple of hours (sounds bad, but it was the reality). I remember, (that) most of that the women were just desperate mothers…

…candles, lighters, antibiotics, fuel, batteries, rifle ammo and of course food, we fight like animals for that.

In a situation like that, lot of things change, most of people turned into monsters, it was ugly.

Strength was in numbers, if you were alone in the house, you would have probably been robbed and killed, no matter how well armed (you were).

Anyway, war ended, again thanks to America (and again god bless USA for that). It is not important witch side was right in that war.

It was almost 20 years ago, but believe me, for me it was just like yesterday, I remember everything, and I think that I learned a lot (of things).

Me and my family are (all) prepared now, I am well armed, (well) stocked and (well) educated.

War is never pretty. Nor does it resemble what is portrayed by Hollywood. All is in ruin, and there are no clear friends, sides, or relationships.
War is never pretty. Nor does it resemble what is portrayed by Hollywood. All is in ruin, and there are no clear friends, sides, or relationships.

It is not important does not matter what going to happen; earthquake, war, tsunami, aliens terrorists, important thing is that something is gonna (eventually happen).

And from my experience, you can not survive alone. Strength is in numbers. Be close with your family, prepare with them. Choose your friends wisely and prepare with them too.

And at the end, this is my first post, and my English is not so good, so don t judge me too hard. ”

Q: How did you get around safely?

Actually, the city was broken in something like a lot of street communities. In my street (15 or 20 houses) we organized patrols (5 armed man every night) to watch out for gangs or enemies.

Cities were death traps and your only hope for survival were your friends and family.
Cities were death traps and your only hope for survival were your friends and family.

We traded things between people in that street. Five miles from my street there was one street with something (that looked) like organized traders, but it was to dangerous to go there. It worked only during the nighttime (during the day it was sniper alley) and (it was risky) you had a greater chance to be robbed there than to trade. I used that street only 2 times, and believe me, it was only when i really needed something (really) bad.

Selco didn’t want to specify the city, but based on his description it could  be Livno, which had 40,600 residents in 1991 (now at 34k). Wikipedia:  “After the end of World War II, Livno was a part of Socialist Republic  of Bosnia and Herzegovina in Yugoslavia. After its collapse in 1992 and  during the Bosnian War, it was under control of Croat Republic of  Herzeg-Bosnia.”
Selco didn’t want to specify the city, but based on his description it could be Livno, which had 40,600 residents in 1991 (now at 34k). Wikipedia: “After the end of World War II, Livno was a part of Socialist Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina in Yugoslavia. After its collapse in 1992 and during the Bosnian War, it was under control of Croat Republic of Herzeg-Bosnia.”

Q: What about wood? It looked like there are many forests around your city, why did you have to burn doors and furniture?

First, thank you for your questions, I did not expect this kind of interest in my post.

I ll be glad to share lot of things with you guys because i want to learn lot of things from you.

Anyway:

Bosnia does have a lot of woods and forests when you go and check the map, but I lived in city closer to the Croatian border, more to the South. I really don’t want to mention name of the city, but if you check the map, the southern part of my country closest to Croatia is all rocky.

Yes we had some trees in my city, parks, fruit trees, but most of the city was building and houses. But believe me…

… all the trees in the city are going to be burned very fast when you don’t have electricity for cooking and heating. After that all what you have is furniture, doors, wooden floors… (and believe me that stuff is burning up far too fast)

Death came swiftly from unexpected places and was often sudden and swift.
Death came swiftly from unexpected places and was often sudden and swift.

There was almost no car use in town. This is because: most of the roads were jammed with ruins, abandoned cars, destroyed houses stuff like that, and petrol was like gold (to us).

If i needed to go somewhere I almost always used night time. I never went alone but also I never went in big group either. (We traveled in smaller groups) (2-3 men maybe), always armed, very fast, always in shadows, through ruins, rarely ever openly on the street, actually… always hiding.

We did not have suburbs and farmers, in the suburbs were the enemy army. We were surrounded by the enemy army, and inside town… (well,) you did not know who is your enemy.

You can expect that all government organization to shut down, and the currency that you hoarded to be useless.
You can expect that all government organization to shut down, and the currency that you hoarded to be useless.

And yes, there were organized groups of gangs, 10-15 people, sometimes even 50. But also there were (a lot of) normal people like you and me, fathers, granddads, decent folks, who robbed and killed. There wasn’t too much good and bad guys (black and white), most of everyone was (some shade of) gray, ready for everything.

Q: Did you prep and what kind of skills did you need?

Of course you can ask.

We used what we had, we were not prepared for that situation. We did not know about prepping.

During a SHTF event, it will all be crazy. Currency, and money will be useless. There will be no water, and no electricity. There will be no wifi and no internet. Most furniture will be used for firewood, and people will trade anything to stay alive.
During a SHTF event, it will all be crazy. Currency, and money will be useless. There will be no water, and no electricity. There will be no wifi and no internet. Most furniture will be used for firewood, and people will trade anything to stay alive.

So you can imagine in some aspects we went back to stone age, actually in most (ways we did).

We just used everything what we had. One example, I had in my possession, a propane (or butane I am not sure which) large storage bottle; cylinder (i am not sure is that right word), but I did not use it for cooking or heating, it was too valuable. Instead, I managed to modify that bottle with my friend. I attached a hose and created some kind of refueling mechanism (sorry my English is going down here) so i can refill those disposable lighters, (they are not really disposable if you have know-how) those lighters were worth a small fortune.

During the war, the capital lay in ruins.
During the war, the capital lay in ruins.

To make story short, somebody (would) bring an empty lighter to me and I would fill that lighter up with gas. Usually I took one can (of food) for that or (else) one candle or whatever he was able to offer me.

I hope you understand my example, my English is poor on some things.

One more example, I am a registered nurse, in any time like that, my knowledge was (a valuable thing) for trade.

And yes, be trained and educated, in times like that it worth a fortune if you know how to fix things. Eventually, all your goods are going to be exhausted one day. However, your specific knowledge can be your food.

Neighborhoods will be in ruins. Those with the best or the wealthiest homes will be repeatedly looted and attacked. Even if you do not appear to have a nice house, if your neighbors think that you might have storage and food, you will be looted.
Neighborhoods will be in ruins. Those with the best or the wealthiest homes will be repeatedly looted and attacked. Even if you do not appear to have a nice house, if your neighbors think that you might have storage and food, you will be looted.

I mean learn to fix things (shoes or people, whatever you can).

My neighbor used to know how to make some kind of oil for oil lamps (oil in glass, peace of rope – “kerosene camping lanterns”) and he was never hungry, he never did show me how he made that oil for the lamps. ”

I believe he used some tree behind his house and small amount of diesel fuel, i don’t know.

My point is to learn things, people always need somebody who knows how to fix things.

It was not survival movie, it was ugly, we did what we have to do to survive.

Nobody wins, we just survived, with a lot of bad dreams.

Q: Wasn’t it religious, the war?

Sorry man wrong info, that was not Cristian vs Muslim war, it was civil war, with lot of switching between sides.

And sorry I will not get into the politics involved, I really don’t care too much about that, I am not going into religious stories. I mean, I believe in God as a higher power, and I am trying to live by his laws, but I do not belong to any dogma, Muslim or Christian.

Q: Who was your support group?

My group was only my family. This was my blood (relatives like uncles, grandmother…), in my street. In my town trips I had some close friends, but my best friend(s) was my family. I never took a stranger into my close group.

Q: If you had three months to prepare today, what would you do?

If I have extra three months to prepare?

Hmmm, I’d probably run overseas …

<Joke>

OK, Now I am very well aware how things can go very bad in very short time, so (today) I have food, hygiene, energy etc. to supply me for 6 months. I now live in apartment with some improved security. I also have a house with shelter in a village some 5 miles from my apartment. In that house are also supplies for 6 months. The village there is a small community, and most of them are my relatives, (and now) most of them are prepared (they learned that from war). I have four kinds of (live) fire weapons with (at least) 2000 bullets for each (sorry, can not go in details, laws are different here for rifles).

I have big garden at that house and some good knowledge about gardening and farming.

I think i have knowledge now to smell trouble. You (do) know that when everybody is saying that everything is going to be fine you somehow know that is everything going to fall apart.

I think I have the strength necessary to do everything what it takes to keep me and my family alive, because when everything is going to shit…

…be sure, you are going to do some bad things to save your kid. You don t want to be hero, but you do want to survive with your family.

I am nurse, also I am paramedic (US standards)

And i am willing to learn from all of you.

One man survivor, no chance ( OK, it’s only my opinion).

No matter how well armed and prepared you are, at the end you are gonna die. I’ve seen that, many times. Family groups or closest friend with lot of preparing and lots of different knowledge (skill sets) will carry you through the SHTF event, I believe that is what is best.

Q: What items should we stockpile?

Thank you.

Well it depends, I guess if you stock only one thing you are not going to survive. (That is), unless you want to survive like robber, then you need only a gun and lot of ammo.

I believe, besides ammo, food hygiene and energy things (batteries etc.) are necessary. You need to focus on small things for trade. This would include pocket knives, lighters, and flints.

Also a LOT of alcohol, the kind that can store long. I mean stuff like whiskey and all that. It’s not not important what kind, you can have cheapest brand. It is a very good thing for trade in desperate times.

A case or twenty of small bottles of whiskey makes for good trading mediums for barter during SHTF events.

Also lack of hygiene things killed a lot of people, I’ve seen that.

You gonna need to have some simple things, like for example lot of garbage bags, I mean a lot, many uses for that, and a LOT of duct tape, many many uses for that (too).

In case of weapon keep it simple. I mean now i always carry a Glock 45 with me, because i like that gun, but it is not a usual gun and usual caliber here…

The G21 is the perfect answer to the gun owners who’re interested in owning a .45 ACP for defense purposes, but have remained loyal to the 9mm because of its capacity.
The G21 is the perfect answer to the gun owners who’re interested in owning a .45 ACP for defense purposes, but have remained loyal to the 9mm because of its capacity.

… so I also have two 7.62 mm TT Russian pistols hidden, because almost everybody has that gun here and a lot ammunition (is available).

Russian engineers decided to develop a round based on the German Mauser’s 7.63 mm ammo. So in the early 1930s, the Soviet was armed with the famous TT-30 pistol. Its construction was based on a simplified version the of Brauning pistol. The TT-30 received powerful 7.62 x 25 rounds that flew out of the gun at 420 meters per second.
Russian engineers decided to develop a round based on the German Mauser’s 7.63 mm ammo. So in the early 1930s, the Soviet was armed with the famous TT-30 pistol. Its construction was based on a simplified version the of Brauning pistol. The TT-30 received powerful 7.62 x 25 rounds that flew out of the gun at 420 meters per second.

I don t like Kalashnikov, but here there is that rifle on almost every 3rd house so…

AK-47.
AK-47.

Most of the time I collected my water from roof in 4 big barrels during the war, then boiled to disinfect it, we also had river in that town, but it was far too polluted but if you can’t choose…

I don t think I am an expert, I am here to learn.

I guess, it depends how far you going to go to survive with your actions, you need to be prepared to do some ugly things.

Oh yes… it changed my perspective on life.

I know now that bad things can happen, and one more important thing, actually I believe it is most important:

I no longer believe government and authority, not at all.

When they really doing their best to assure you that everything going to be fine, you can be sure that something bad is happening.

American politics.
American politics.

Do not just believe, (do your own) research.

Q: What about the civil war…and the religious fighting? Did gold and silver help much and how did you get the alcohol and other supplies?

Hello to all. It is me again.

I believe in some point this discussion gone the wrong way, and no I am not offended, everybody have right for opinion, so here are few of my opinions:

It was a civil war, yes there was a great influence of religion, but somebody mentioned “what did you do with people of other religions?”

Well in my family there are people with different religious beliefs so what do you mean with that?

I’ll try to explain you simply; it was an attackers and defenders war. (There were a) lot of switching sides; a civil war.

The war ended without winners, it ended with a truce, thanks mostly to USA.

It was a wrong war, (all for the) wrong reasons.

I did not fight for religion or ethnicity, I fought to keep my family and myself alive.

For the last 15 years we have had peace. We live with people who used to be our enemies. I do not to want to have war and enemies again because ethnicity or religion or for any other reason.

Please do not try to generalize anything about that war, there was no good or bad side, we all suffered and (now) we all try to live together again.

And yes every side did bad things, and every side had both good and bad guys.

I am here for one and only reason- survival, I want to learn, and I can share some useful stuff with you. I don’t think (want to know) about your religious beliefs, your ethnicity or your politic opinions.

Few words about my city before war, it was the usual Bosnian town. (It had a) normal life, decent people, schools, theaters, and parks. (It had a) college, airport, crime rates were very low. (The) town was like most of the smaller towns in USA (I think). I was a young man, just like any of you are maybe.

Now very important think: I am not here to discuss about war reasons, or sides, religion or anything similar.

Thanks to the war, in my town was REAL SHTF situation, and we can discuss only about that, only that is important.

You have a lot internet pages, you can learn everything about that war, and you can choose side if you want. OK that’s it.

About survival.

I don t know about other people on this forum, but I have lot of alcohol stacked now.

At the beginning of the war a tank grenade smashed front wall of small distillery (alcohol factory) close to my house. (It opened up and we were able to access it) so we took something around 500 liters of rakia (it is something like Bosnian whiskey, I guess, it’s made from grapes, and very strong)

It was great stuff for trading, people used alcohol a lot, desperate times I think, we also used it for disinfection.

About hygiene, cups and plates, paper or plastic, your gonna need a LOT, I know, we did not have it at all.

My opinion is that hygiene things are more important maybe than food, you can easily shoot pigeon. If you have a grandmother she may know (about) some of the eatable plants on nearest small hill (my experience) but you can not shoot hand sanitizer

Water purifying pills, all kind of cleaning stuff, sanitizers, lot of soap, bleach, gloves, masks, all disposable. (All are important and needed.)

Here, I copy and edit this in the middle of the cornovirus event inside of China. And this advice is spot on, I'll tell you what.

Take very good care about (getting) first aid training. Learn how to treat smaller cuts, burns or even a gunshot wound. There will not be any hospital (available), even if you found a doctor somewhere he probably will not have any meds, or (perhaps) you won’t have stuff to pay him with.

Learn how and when to use antibiotics and have a lot of it on hand.

Believe me with (some) good knowledge and goodly amount of meds you are gonna be rich.

About gold and silver, yes, me personally gave all my gold for ammunition in that time, but it wasn’t worth too much.

About pets, i did not have any, I did not notice a lot pets in that time, did somebody ate them? I don’t know… probably.

About a small family, hmm, not good.

Usually a few smaller families would get together in the biggest house available and stay together, all relatives (my case).

A small family or a single man, (is) not good (an ideal arrangement) for survival in town (during a) SHTF event.

Maybe in the wilderness (but I don t have experience in that).

Even if you keep a low profile, hidden in your house with lots of food etc, sooner or later the mob will come. And you have maybe have one or two guns… (it’s going to be) very hard (to make it oout alive).

I agree with the low profile policy, it is very important not to attract people with anything. But when they come, (and they will come) you will need to have numbers, people and guns, your best people is your family.

About moving through the city: always move during night time as I mentioned earlier. Never alone. 2-3 man. Move very fast, never attract anything. Look like everybody else. If most folks look desperate, poor, and dirty you need to look the same. There is no need that everybody else knows that you have a good amount of food, ammo, clean clothes and everything else back at home. Look and act like everybody else. (Blend in. Be inconspicuous.)

When somebody attacks you or your family then (is when) you need to show them that you are very ready.

I never walked in big groups, in that time and that situation, (the only) big groups are gangs.

Now, this is all my experience, it was then. I made a lot of mistakes. I am no expert. I am here just like any of you, to learn and share.

For example i don t know too much about wilderness survival, I am here to check learn about it.

Oh yes, few things to the Sedoy: my wife is different ethnicity, and she is also a Catholic, I am not, and to answer you: no I am not going to shoot her.

Q: What happened to those who died? Where did people get firewood?

Well, who ever died or get killed in that period, did not get a proper funeral.

Folks used used every peace of free land, close to their house for burial. Sometimes even in the garden. 2-3 city parks turned to graveyards. After the war most of them are exhumed and properly buried.

There was not nothing like burning bodies or anything similar, as far as I know.

Oh one more interesting thing about fire. Some people used to travel a few miles during the night just to find fire somewhere so they can light a peace of wood and bring it home, and start a fire for cooking or heating. Lighters and matches were really precious, and most of the folks did not have enough firewood to keep a file or embers burning. For most of the people it was constant search for something, fire, wood, food, ammo…

Q: Was salt valuable?

It was valuable yes, but not too much, for example coffee or cigarettes were worth much more.

Q: What about cigarettes?

Hm, I had a lot of alcohol as I mentioned before. I traded almost everything without any problem, let me say it like this: consumption of alcohol was probably 10 times more than during normal times. Not to mention cleaning and disinfection.

On the other hand, you made a very good point, if you have money and time and you have a storage it is probably better to store cigarettes or candles and batteries for trade, or food.

I was not a “prepper” at that time, we did not have time to prepare. A few days right before the SHTF politicians on TV stated that everything is fine. Then, when the sky fell down we just take what you can.

Q: Tell us more about cooking and the foods you were able to prepare. Were you concerned about the smell getting around and alerting people that there was food over there?

About cooking, before the SHTF I used in my house electricity for both, cooking and heating. So when everything started I traded some stuff for some kind of old wood stove. I put it in the kitchen and fix exhaust pipe (right word?) through a hole in wall. I used that for both cooking and heating.

During the summer I cooked in my backyard (walled fence, brick, luckily).

Concerning the smell of the food, hum. I’ll try to (describe for you a) picture (of the) situation: no electricity, no running water, sewage off for months, dead bodies in ruined houses, grime and mess, believe me it was very difficult to smell something nice.

It was not like in movies, it was ugly, dirty, and smelly.

Yes I had a few problems because of cooking, only a few, but as I said before, enough people, properly armed and with the will to defend…

… and you can manage most of the problems with that.

Probably, the situation would be (quite) different in the wilderness.

I ate mostly some kind of pancakes with local herbs (it does not require cooking oil and too much firewood), and of course, everything what I could get and trade (we ate). Rice was good to eat, not too much firewood for that.

I think I had (a lot of) luck, only a few times (did) I eat funny things like pigeons.

I always had something to trade, I guess that saved me…

… and guns of course.

Downtown  Grbavica, a suburb of Sarajevo, March of 1996. Sarajevo was also  besieged and faced many of the issues described by Selco.
Downtown Grbavica, a suburb of Sarajevo, March of 1996. Sarajevo was also besieged and faced many of the issues described by Selco.

Q: 1. Why would the night be safer than daytime? Outside of the obvious of being easier to hide at night, but were the gangs more out during the days? Also, why only small groups of 2-3? What happened to larger groups?

2. Why would you have to go out at night? For instance, where were you going and why?

3. How did you handle the mob situation when they came for you, or your family?

4. You mentioned trading for bullets, etc. How much shooting were you doing during that time and how much ammo did you have, or would like to have had?

5. How were you able to determine who was an enemy and who wasn’t? How did you manage to get out there trade with people and when/where?

6. What fortifications did you do to your home and what kind of guard, or protections did you have in place?

7. Finally, how did you avoid snipers? What precautions did people take against them?

Firstly, almost nobody went out during the day because of snipers, the line of defense was very close, so whatever you have to do, you do it during the night.

(You) trade something, look for firewood (I can’t express how much this was important (to us) in town, and hard), looking for anything, check somebody, to go to hear news (very very important, lot of people get killed because they go somewhere just to see what happening, or what’s new) remember, no news, no radio ,no TV, nothing, rumors fed lot of people.

Already (as I) explained, you can stay home and die of hunger and cold, or even by infection of some small wound or go out and risk your life, try to find – trade anything useful

I did have situations concerning my house only, there is no need (to get into) too many details, we had more fire power, and (a) brick wall.

Also we had something like a street watch, people from my street were well organized, in case of gangs, now there were a lot shootings.

There was pretty much shooting all over town, I did not have enough weapons at the beginning. (I had) one rifle and one pistol (old world war II vintage), maybe 100 bullets total. Later I traded some things for more rifles and ammo. I remember that I gave away a car battery for 2 rifles.

How much ammo ?

A LOT, as much as you can (get a hold of).

Most of the time you are not able to determine who is enemy or friend. Expect my family and few real friends. Everybody else is a potential enemy. When your friend must choose between his child’s death and your death guess who (he) is going to choose.

Rumors, somebody tells you that some old guy a few blocks away has some cans and he is looking for ammo or whatever. You go there, as I say you are always looking for something. Same some people would came to my street as traders, with some goods.

There was something like trade street during the night, actually it was in the big ruins of sport center. You can go over there and look for something or offer something. However, it was not controlled by anyone so it was too dangerous.

It was primitive pretty much, a brick wall around the house, bags of sand on windows and doors, over that bags we used whatever you can. (There were) big pieces of metal, stones, (everywhere). Inside the house we put all kinds of stuff on the windows, (leaving) only a small opening left for a rifle. (We had a rule) always 5 members of family ready for fight, one always outside on street hidden.

Stone age situation.

To avoid snipers, we would stay home during the day, there were not so many night snipers, even during the night we never walked openly on the streets if we can avoid that, always (using) shortcuts, trough ruins, fast and quiet.

Q: What was your bathroom situation? Where did you go? Did you have anything to wipe with? Sorry ask such personal questions, but this is something that I’ve wondered about in this type of situation.

We used shovels and any piece of land close to house, (yeah) it sounds dirty, and it is dirty; washing with collected rainwater, sometimes (we would) go to the river (most of the time that was too dangerous) Most of the time we did not have toilet paper, even if I had it, I (would) trade it.

It was a bad situation all the time.

If i can give some advice: first to prep is a weapon and ammo, then everything else.

I mean everything, depends how much money and space you have.

If you forget something no problem there is always somebody ready for trade, but if you forget guns and ammo then you may not be able to get to trading places.

I do not see big family or group of really (I mean really) good friends as more mouth to feed, I see them as more guns and strength, it is in people’s nature to adapt.

And keep it simple and use common sense. In the first period (of the war) the weak people vanished, others fought.

Go with small things, lighters, candles, flints.

It is great idea to have a fuel generator (electrical generating unit) but i think a better idea is to have 1000 BIC lighters. A fuel generator is great, but in a SHTF scenario in town it is going to attract a whole army. But, 1000 BIC lighters don’t take up too much space, (they’re) cheap, and you can always trade it for something.

Real SHTF scenario demands a complete change of the normal mindset, (it’s) hard to explain, I’ll try through examples.

Q: How easy/hard was it to get weapons AFTER the SHTF and what could you trade for weapon and ammunition (I remember you saying a car battery for a rifle) and where would I go to find the people who trade in weapons?

Hum, you re right, after the war every house here had a weapon from the war, and yes the police did take some action to take illegal weapons from the population. It depends from man to man I guess, a lot of people find ways to hide their weapons somewhere, just in case.

I also have legal weapon (license), and the authority here has some thing they refer as “temporary collecting”. It basically says something like: “in a case of unusual event (riots, unrest, etc) government has the right to temporary collect all legal weapons”. So I keep always in mind that fact. And I acted like some other people.

You know some people have legal weapon for everyday carry (I have a Glock 45 and Taurus 38) but some people with legal weapon also have illegal weapons hidden somewhere just in case SHTF and “temporary collecting”.

It is not hard to get weapon in SHTF if you have good stuff for trade,. However, the other thing is important. The very first days of SHTF is worst in terms of chaos and panic. So, maybe you’re not gonna have time to get a gun. And to be unarmed in chaos panic and riots is bad.

In my case, the man needed a car battery for a HAM radio I think, and he had some extra rifles, so we traded.

Q: What about medical care for people who were shot or became injured?

Wounds was mostly gunshot wounds of course, without specialists and everything else, if wounded manage to find a doctor somewhere he had like 30% chances to live.

Again it is not (like a) movie, mostly they died.

A lot of people died even from minor cuts infections, I had antibiotics maybe for 3-4 treatments. Of course for my family only.

Simple things killed people. Diarrhea can kill you in a few days without meds and re-hydration, (fluid therapy, IV) especially small kids. Lot of fungal skin diseases, and food poisoning, we could not do too much. Basically we treated diseases mostly with local herbs, and if you had a wound, put rakia (whiskey) on it and tried to find antibiotics somewhere.

So i was good at fixing wounds in term of emergency help, but longer procedure…

…bad prognosis.

What I learned? Hygiene again, and a lot of meds, especially antibiotics. You need to learn to treat lot of stuff, go online, finish some training, EMT maybe, first aid etc.

In SHTF things are different, learn how to open IV, when to use certain drugs, or antibiotics.

Get your self ANA TE (anti tetanus ) shot injections , snake poison kit, adrenaline kit (allergic reactions, different kinds) tick removal kit, (tick related illness can kill you, learn how to remove tick)…

Get in Supply your prepper storage some reanimation kit (simple one) like a small oxygen cylinder, a BVM mask etc. It is not really hard to learn to use all of these.

OK let’s be clear about something, of course you can not use anything of this in the “real world” unless you are certified and trained for that ( EMT, nurse, physician ).

But in SHTF nobody will ask you for your license, just learn and have it in your storage big part for medical things.

So to answer question how did I help and treat others? Most of the time everyone was very poor. I helped some with the resources that I had. I took food or something else for exchange, I was badly prepared for that, now I have what I need to have.

Q: Did your local currency/money still hold value? Were you still able to use money to purchase items from other people?

No, not really. I mean sometimes you can use foreign money if you had it to buy something, (dollars or German marks) but even in that rare occasion the rate was unbelievable. For example 1 can of beans for 30-40 dollars (normal value was maybe 0.50). I guess somebody had connections with outside world, black market you know, so he can earn a lot of money. But it was very rare. Trade was main thing to get something.

Local currency crashed very fast, in few weeks or month maybe.

Q: How much space should I keep for alcohol storage? What was security like?

About alcohol first, you are right but you are right in both ways, people needed alcohol more in desperate times then usual, so it is a kind of gambling I guess, it is very good item for trading. I never had problems with alcohol trading and having than problems with trading other things.

Also I am thinking about something else, maybe it is better to fill my storage with something less space consuming but still interesting for trade, like batteries, antibiotics etc.

Thing is I had all that alcohol for free, I did not buy it. I don t know about this.

In most of the situations people attacked me because they thought they are stronger, they did not know for sure what I really had.

About ammunition trade, it depends how much ammo you are going to have, sometimes I would trade ammo for food, and in few weeks again food for ammo. However, I never never conducted trade at my home, and never bigger amounts, very few people knew how much of anything I had in my house.

The point is to store as much of anything as you can store (space , money). (Then) later during the situation you ll see what is most popular. Correction – ammo and guns always gonna held first place for me, but who knows maybe number 2 for trading gonna be for example masks with filters.

About medical issue , I’ll write in my next post what do I have now in my medical part of storage

Defenses were very primitive, again we were not prepared. We use whatever we could, windows were broken, roofs mostly damaged from shelling, all windows were blocked with something, sand bags and rocks. Every night I blocked my yard gate with junk- rubble from the street and I used an old aluminum ladder to get over the (brick) wall, when I came back I called somebody from house to get me with that ladder so I can move back in.

A guy from my street barricaded his house completely. If he goes out at night, he used a hole that he made in one room that was connected with his neighbor’s house, and then go trough his (ruined and destroyed) house out. So, actually he had secret entrance.

It may look weird to say but most secured houses are gone first, of course we had some very nice houses in neighborhood, with walls, dogs, alarms, steel bars on windows, alarms. And you can guess what happened, mobs attacked those houses first, some were defended other not, depend how many guns and hands they had inside.

So i think security is great, but be sure that you keep it low profile. Forget about alarms, if you live in town and SHTF you gonna need simple looking non-interesting secured house, with a lot of guns and ammunition.

Just keep it low profile and not interesting.

On my apartment door now I have a steel door for security reasons, but only to keep me trough the first (brief) short period of chaos, then I am ready to move out to connect with a much bigger group of armed people (family and friends) in the country (I hope).

Well in my case migration did not happen because it happens very fast. The other army just closed up the city in a ring and that’s it. If you ask me where was that army and how we were unable to see them coming, the answer is simple. That army was an ally of the army of my side and people…

… one day we woke up and figured they are the enemy now and they are closing all the ways out. Politics. It is true, it’s one more side of civil war.

But I heard from others parts of country, and my friends who stayed in villages in the other parts in state, that they had much better situations. Their countryside had land, corn, wheat, fruit trees, farms etc. They had enough food, it was bad, but much better than in the city.

I know one thing if we had some way out from the town, we would use it, (unfortunately) we did not have it.

Q: What was the situation with banks and stores?

About banks, loans, credit cards. Complete monetary system died for about one year, so nothing works.

It is complex question in many ways, I’ll try it to answer it in some future posts, (I) need much more time and much much more space to describe it.

Even now, almost 20 years later, folks are in European court suing banks, because they don’t want to admit their savings in banks.

A lot of different things happened in that period. They changed money, I mean (the) monetary name, they changed it 2-3 times , hyperinflation occurred. (All manner of things were lost), lost (all the) paper trails about savings, loans … I remember some people use that situation to get rich, they are still rich.

So I’ll try to describe that in separate post.

There was a lot of problems with proving peoples property after everything. For example: my father had a nice apartment and because of the war he had to leave it. Now, after the war ended he was at court for about 4 years proving that the apartment was his.

Now, the reasons for that were different, because politics in that time, but also he did not have enough paper work to prove that apartment was his (he did not take papers from the apartment when he fled), he had more important things to care about.

On the other side during the worst period, people just moved in the empty house, and that’s it.

I mention rural areas in another post. As far as I remember it was better there.

In that period there wasn’t any running vehicles. Actually I remember a tank at the front line, and Lada Niva (check it on web) with cut off doors and roof and installed machine gun (I think it was an old m53) and those two only moved when they fired (they keep it hidden behind ruined houses).

Lada Niva
Lada Niva

For let me call it “civilian population” there was no moving with vehicles, streets were mostly under rubble and unusable and fuel was too expensive.

Not to draw attention was a big thing, about clothing, there used to be some sort of town defense, it was not like a real military, mostly mixed civilian clothes with parts of uniforms, different types of weapons, so no rules.

But as soon as we start to go in to those things and try to talk about two armies, their strength, war crimes, politics I am not gonna like it any more, because people gonna start to choose sides, and I think it is not important for us here.

As I said before there wasn’t an organized army, but we all had been like soldiers, we had to, most of us carried weapon and tried to protect ourselves from the enemy army and robbers.

Inside the town you did not want to look fancy because somebody would shoot you and take all your good stuff, you did not want to have a fancy rifle, because probably you not gonna find ammo in that caliber and also you are drawing attention to yourself.

So let me try to put it this way: If SHTF tomorrow, I will try to look like most of the people outside, scared, desperate, confused and I’ll scream maybe, no fancy looking stuff, I’ll not go out in fancy new uniform and yell “I am here, you are finished now looters and robbers”.

I’ll stay low profile, heavily armed and well prepared waiting to see my options, even if I have to go out with all my gear to do things I’ll go out in the night, with my best friend or brother. Maybe it sounds ridiculous, but from my experience it works, be very well prepared, but let nobody outside your house know or see that.

No matter how good your house security is, how good your weapon is, if people see that they have good reason to rob you they probably rob you in town SHTF. It is only matter of time and number of guns.

Don’t ever give them reason to be interesting in robbing you. Stay uninteresting. Now this is my opinion, maybe is not working in different situation.

About robbing grocery store and gas stations; it happened very very fast, as soon as shooting started all valuable things were emptied. There was some effort of authority to keep it together but everything fell apart in the first few weeks.

Bernie Carr from ApartmentPrepper was fascinated with the story and had even more questions, and was able to reach Selco.

Q: On the forum where you described your experience of being under siege, you mentioned that you had no electricity or running water. How did you and your family handle the toilet (sanitary) conditions?

We had a small yard and dug holes for toilets, we thought it was temporary so the holes were small but later on we dug bigger ones because we realized this is long and world might have forgotten us. It was not nice but at least we did not do it in the house like many others did. Whole area started to smell bad anyway, stench from dead people is worse than a bit of poo.

Q: A lot of my readers are women and they would want to know what did the women, children and elderly members of your family do on a day to day basis during the time your city was under attack?

The roles were back to hundred years ago. Before war we were modern society, but as soon as SHTF the women, kids and elder stayed mostly at home. They wanted that, no questions. Happened automatically.

They did the washing, cooking, cleaning and taking care of sick people. Just sometimes when shelling was a bit less some women came along to gather herbs or MRE if food aid was coming that time. Not often. We always had some man protecting the home, women, children and elderly.

Q: From all the weapons that you used, what was your preferred weapons for when you went out into the street OR when you were staying at home and why?

Always had the same weapons, TeTe gun / some Russian gun and AK47. Simple choice, most ammo for these weapons. We had only a few of those so we exchanged them among us. Did a good job, very reliable weapons. AK47 has good stopping power, just not very good on fully auto. Can make a mess out of a human.

Q: A lot of apartment preppers will probably decide to stay in their homes and this has raised a lot of discussions on the pros and cons of staying in the city. Some people say that by staying in the city, the infrastructure will be restored first, and that those living in the countryside would be attacked by roving bandits. The other side states that those living in the countryside have greater chances of survival as they would be more self-reliant and not dependent on resources from the city. Based on you and your family’s experience, which would you prefer and why?

RUN! If you lucky yes, city might be better off but if not it is so much worse. Bug in for a few days until first madness settled and then bug out. Also depends on the weather. Might stay at home in winter and risk getting robbed / murdered instead of going out and freezing to death. Only run if you know where you run to.

Daisy Luther from The Organic Prepper also contacted Selco for an interview. We highlight a couple of the Q&As and you can go to her site if you’d like to read the rest (she focuses on politics and the US situation).

Q: What parallels do you see with events in the US and Bosnia before the SHTF?

US and Yugoslavia (in 1990) on first look do not have anything in common because people are going to say, “The USA cannot have anything similar to any socialistic system.”

This is true but only on first look.

Yugoslavia had somewhere around 20-22 million citizens, six republics (similar to states in the US), 3-4 main religions, and many national groups (ethnicity).

The official state policy was to build Yugoslavian “nationality” (from the end of WW1) and through different ways that effort was successful until the 90s.

We were “something big, united through differences with a strong connection to make something big.”

And then those differences were used to make chaos.

In the late 80s and beginning of the 90s (when democracy came) the problems started and ended up in series of wars and cases of complete collapse.

Things that I experienced in my case prior to SHTF, and things that you might recognize:

  • Things that make differences between people are more and more problematic (race, religion, political opinion).
  • Polarization is getting obviously stronger.
  • People want to come to your country, but they do not want to “assimilate” or contribute to the greater good. They want to preserve their way of life which is often absolutely contradictory to the way that your country (society) works.
  • The political way of solving those problems often fails, because, in essence, those problems are hard to solve in a democratic way (in the spirit of democracy).
  • Your freedoms are “shrinking” as a result of that.
  • Calls for “radical solutions“ for the problems are stronger and stronger.
  • The media is absolutely working a dirty job, and it is hard to find out what is the truth anymore.
  • Suddenly people and events from history are “brought back” so people can judge and argue about it, to write history again, to build myths sometimes.

Q: Anything else to add?

I have seen many people killed, a lot of women and children too, civilians. A huge number of people suffered, were hungry and cold and were terrified through that period.

But I can count on one hand the dead or hungry politicians in that time.

Things were good for them through that period. Some of them ended up even richer. A lot of them are still powerful in the same or different parties, and are still talking about “their people” or “ causes” or “fear from others”.

It is the way it works.

Conclusion

This is good stuff, don’t you think?

Take heed, SHTF can come in many forms. Like the biological warfare with the coronvirus here in China. (Just a second ago I stepped outside to check with the apartment complex police. We are still under lock-down. No one can come in or leave the complex.)

  • Make sure you have a tight group of friends and family.
  • Stockpile food.
  • Stockpile sanitary and anti-bacterial supplies.
  • Have skills or items to barter.
  • Be able to defend yourself with equipment that you know how to use well.
  • Lie low key, and hide.

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